Video

I'm not certain, in all honesty - the detail doesn't seem to be provided, but with it being 4000 K, I would expect a decent CRI (in the 80s, surely)...it needs an amber filter to make it more SOX-like - that'll drop the figure somewhat!

@@StreetLightOnline Thorn also makes these in 5700K, 3000K, 2700K, and even 2200K. You get two CRI options for the 3000K and 4000K versions, that being 70 and 80.

I remember walking along a street lit with 5700 K Stelas, and then onto another with 4000 K Isaros - my eyes were so adjusted to the bluer shade that the Isaros appeared positively warm by comparsion!

@@StreetLightOnline can you imagine what it would be like walking on a street with 5700K LEDs to a street that’s fully SOX? 🤯

Ooh...retinal crash imminent! The famous video of mine where numerous lanterns ran together played havoc with my eyes - too much brightness and too many colour temperatures made the SOX lighting start appearing pink - heaven knows what the combined CRI was of that lot!

Fine by me!

Given that the '66'-plate Mickleovers are set to be replaced in the latest batch of new vehicles, I guess that the Indigos might end up being cascaded within a couple of years, particularly when one of the branded buses was lost to fire quite recently.

I didn't find anything that resembled the dodgy material in this one - the original lampholder wiring was the braided heat resistant type, but this didn't look to be asbestos as the material was thinner, and more fine. Thus, you shouldn't need to hold your breath if you are lucky enough to save your local example!

Good luck! It's possible that a P179 might exist in a collection (possibly, Bob Cookson's, as even when his excellent site was operational, what he'd pictured on there was only the tip of a much larger iceberg!), though it's certainly the case that there don't seem to be any saved examples documented online, as you say. I missed out on the Derby one (Local Lights > Post-Tops > Gamma 3 (visible in the background as for some reason, I never documented it)) as I didn't know that East Street was to be given a revamp!

⁠@@StreetLightOnline Very interesting! I wonder what happened to his website though? I’m sorry to hear you didn’t photograph that P179 before it was removed, let alone save it. I can save another P179 for you if you want!

Thankfully, it was only a small website, so I think that all of it was saved to the Archive: web.archive.org/web/20180206121146/www.eastbournes-street-lighting.co.uk/ - unlike mine, which would take up an entire server of its own (especially with all of the new material that I am adding for the next update)! I really can't understand why I didn't photograph it - I've checked my original folder from 2006, and while I photographed just about everything else in the City Centre on that date, I never did the P179...stupid younger me!

@@StreetLightOnline *Update:* I received an email from one of the electricians that installed the new LED streetlights on my cousin’s block and he told me to meet him on site and investigate the columns around the estate! Seeing as the remaining lanterns have not been replaced yet, I’m hoping this will provide a good opportunity to get the lanterns saved as some of them are incredibly rare (especially the P179s) and it’d be an absolute shame not to have them saved. I wasn’t expecting this at all, tbh!

Wow, that's a turn up for the books - I'm sure that you were expecting no response at all, or some generic "we don't give out lanterns"-type response - fingers crossed!

Little beggars - pecker by name, pecker by nature (oo-er missus)! I've seen one in a garden further down the street in the past, but it's rare, and I've never observed one in my own garden yet.

Yes, if you like, though I think that there will be more opportunities to photograph the new fleet before it is unleashed on the general public, so if you wished to take your own too, that might also be possible - I gather that a similar publicity event will be held in Burton.

Yep - definitely a "grab the camera" moment!

Heh - it's just as well that the Villager route is relatively flat, and there are plenty of open sections where a good breeze will give the vehicles an extra push! I have a Corgi model of Villager Dart 940 on top of my PC, as it happens.

Still here for the time being!

​@@StreetLightOnlineThey'll probably be rented to notts+derby like the old buses for the threes were last year.

Assuming that they don't go pop before that can happen!

Thanks - I'm glad to hear it!

I know of odd examples here-and-there, but you're right that they tend to look a bit unloved! What age is your one? The one filmed here is also NOS, and dates from 1982. Yes, that's a possibility - the comment didn't even go into the "Held for review" box, which I have as a default for any comments received, so it could be the inclusion of the link that made your comment disappear into a black hole!

​@StreetLightOnline it has 12/84 on the Cap and I think the lamp is August '85 so sometime around then. Came with one of them nice pearl Thorn SON lamps like yours did! (Have some pics on lighting gallery if you're interested, Same username as here, Southwalessox) there's some single and twin mount ones in a carpark near me, would like to save them but don't know how much luck I'll have. Ones had all it's black paint stripped over the years and it's completely white, other than the post mount.

Ooh, fantastic - the pearl lamps create a very unique appearance! Apparently, the machinery used in producing these dated back to the Atlas days, when their MB/U lamps featured a pearl coating too. It's good that the dates are so readily available - I always try to think of what the people on the production lines would have been doing on those dates...in the case of yours, I hope that the operative was due to have his or her mullet reshaped that very evening! Wow, I've never seen one where the paint has degraded to that extent - most unusual! I hope that you have some success in saving them.

No; the First and Last railtour was a few years earlier, on the 15th May 2011. 2014 was when the C Stock Explorer was held, however.

@@StreetLightOnline I miss the c stock

Well, you never know what might happen, but could I ask that my name be omitted from the letter, please? It's probably also best not to include the names of other enthusiasts, unless they have expressed permission to be included.

@@StreetLightOnline I’ve asked other members if their names can be included in the letter and so far, a few people have actually responded back and gave me permission to do so. Don’t worry, the letter is only shown in private and any names will be kept off public domain.

I wonder if they still have the tooling somewhere that could be adapted! As I'm "in the industry" outside of the hobby, I wouldn't really want to be mentioned on anything that goes to a manufacturer, regardless of where it is to be displayed, in all honesty - that's the drawback to the street lighting industry - it's rather close-knit!

@@StreetLightOnline It could be possible, as Schréder has discontinued the original Teceo in favour of the gen2 incarnation.

If only Philips would relaunch the iconic MA series in LED! I photographed some surviving 50s and Alpha 4s today, incidentally - it seems dreadfully wrong to class these as 'Survivors', when I suspect that they are considerably younger than me, but they are going soon, and they're not exactly ten-a-penny any longer!

I am impressed that you knew the date, as I certainly didn't! Your kind words there have made me blush - thank you for the good wishes! Likewise, I didn't think that I would ever be able to collect lanterns when my hobby began, and look where we are now - the 200th will enter the Collection at the weekend (in theory) - don't tell your family that this is where it can lead! Oh, very much so - I have been busy compiling the next site update ever since I uploaded the last one - I hope that it will be this year that it arrives...still plenty of Survivors to visit and photograph around the UK, but I hope to sweep up as many as I can in the next few weeks, weather pending!

@StreetLightOnline haha I'm already past the 100 mark after 3 yrs of collecting lol. What lantern do you have arriving this weekend? I should hopefully have a NOS Thorn Piazza arriving. Yeah still a few survivors about that I'd like to photograph too, but not driving makes that a bit difficult unfortunately, though there's a few good ones here in South Wales, if you're ever in the area let me know and I'll send a list of their locations. Looking forward to the next update!

There's no stopping you! Oh, I'm sworn to secrecy on that one - it is rather rare, however! ;-) Is the Piazza the original type, or the later one, do you know? You're probably best not driving, as you just end up paying a fortune for fuel and vehicle upkeep with Survivors being scattered all over the place - I can vouch for that! Thanks - that sounds good; I'll bear you in mind! Are there any lanterns that you're after currently?

@StreetLightOnline haha fair enough, very intriguing 🤣 The Piazza is (should be) the old square version. I've heard similar opinions r.e driving haha. As for lanterns I'm after it's a list as long as my arm lol, my most wanted other than some decorative lanterns are the Thorn Triumph, ZX3 (Mid and very shallow polycarbonate bowl), GR200 and one of them old part night Zodion cells with the black base and clear top. Also looking to increase my Concrete bracket collection.

Heh - always leave them guessing! Ah, good - although both types are renowned for bowl yellowing, the earlier type seems to be better quality - I've seen many of the newer type where the lamp has scorched the plastic. Yeah, some of the drives that I've been on have taken forever as there are just no high speed roads...still, it's worth it when you end up photographing something rare and old at the end! Ah, I've none of those in my "surplus" pile at present, but never say never...the original SS9 might be more of a challenge, mind you!

Ah, that is a shame - you wonder what prompted the complete replacement if the lanterns were running LED lamps quite happily until now.

@@StreetLightOnline​​⁠ Admittedy, the LED retrofits did a poor job at lighting the access road, which is probably why they’ve been replaced. Either that, or the council earmarks any non-LED lanterns for replacement, regardless if they’re already running LED lamps.

I guess that the limited optical capabilities of the P178 could also be a factor. If you're suffering withdrawal symptoms, a trip to the hospital will see you right...Boston's Pilgrim Hospital, to be exact, as there are P178s in the grounds there - some still run SON, but a lot have been LED corned: maps.app.goo.gl/CpLBCu5kfNTeTCDd8 - these may, or may not, be a feature of a future new Survivor article..!

@@StreetLightOnline Yeah, the translucent opal bowls did not help with how dim the LED cobs were! I would much rather have the P178s retrofitted with Philips TrueForce LED lamps instead of a complete lantern replacement. As crazy as it sounds, I have actually complained to the council about the new LED lanterns they installed. They’re way too bright and dazzling and they just don’t look as aesthetically pleasing as the P178s! From looking at your examples, it’s great to see that these lanterns are still in service, let alone so many! I really do hope that they remain for more years to come.

The TrueForce lamps would have been an interesting test for brightness levels - I've never (knowingly) seen any lit for myself yet. No harm in voicing your concerns to the relevant authorities, though I know that you're sensible enough to realise that now that they're changed, that is the end of the road for the P178s, sadly! Indeed, that car park would be Nirvana for you!

I favour doing exactly that as those loose fibres can cause skin irritation. My own 204 had not been used for long enough for the shedding to start, but my 150 W 203 was bad - the method that I used is described on its page: www.streetlightonline.co.uk/SGS203_150W_photographs.htm , with the finish being Rust-oleum Mode Cream Gloss spray paint.

​@@StreetLightOnline OK, I will try that. I will have to get rid of the giant pile of dead wasps in the lantern first! It dates from 1985, so I'm not surprised at the amount of dirt. I scrubbed and sanded my SGS203 which was caked in lichen and it turned out pretty well

Decaying swarms of wasps are always tremendous fun, especially as the smell is not for someone with a weak stomach! Wow - if it is from 1985, that must be one of the oldest 204s in existence - it didn't even make the catalogues until about 1988!

​@@StreetLightOnline the eBay listing says it is from 1985, and it is still running on its original ballast

That's good going!

I am pleased to have evoked such feelings of nostalgia for you!

Very smart of you! The lanterns that you mentioned were passed on to other collectors in the years after those particular snapshots were taken.

@@StreetLightOnline oh , thats very nice of you to do!

One tries one's best!

Yeuch! The same lamps were fitted in place of 70 W SON-Es in these genuinely elderly (but extensively refurbished in around 1986) lanterns in Buxton not long ago: maps.app.goo.gl/6CwVxCM2APcwxVgT9 (though the one in the foreground later became a P111 since the Google image was captured, but is now back to being this type of lantern after the whole installation needed considerable repair following one of the large trees to the left falling on it and smashing the column during a storm - this lantern uses a proper LED system now - one of the SUGG options, as I recall).

@@StreetLightOnline You just reminded me, I also discovered that this heritage lantern on this cul-de-sac in Leytonstone was retrofitted with a TrueForce lamp too: maps.app.goo.gl/2hcwBixiiX5TkRmLA?g_st=ic. Not only does it look incredibly ridiculous inside that lantern, but I doubt that’s going to provide useful light, given how large the heatsinks are. However, as bad as these TrueForce lamps are, at least WF council went to the bother of fitting them to the existing lanterns rather than scrapping the lanterns entirely. The WRTL 2600s around Chingford have also received the same treatment. At first, I thought they were running CMH like many other lanterns in the borough, but it was only when I saw the large heatsinks that I realised they were retrofitted to LED too. It would be interesting to see what happens when they retrofit the Evolos and Paseos, although I suspect the lanterns will either get replaced or fitted with LED trays.

Yeah, the 'unlit' heatsink gives me dreadful OCD issues! I guess that they're probably better in a 2600, where the bowl diffuses the output, rather than a fitting that relies on a clear cover and reflector technology, as with the Urbis lanterns. Here's also a classic example of "how not to convert your fittings to LED": maps.app.goo.gl/bqzFUMz4NE7tc81d9 - the glare must be insane, and yes; the lantern to the left does have a dislodged lamp that has fallen into the bowl!

I assume that superior phosphors must be used on those with a higher CRI [colour-rendering index] - much the same as fluorescent lamps being available in halophosphate and triphosphor, even if they share the same colour temperature.

Indeed...far more environmentally friendly than having to replace an entire LED fitting when it gives up the ghost!

@@StreetLightOnline LED street light that have replacable ballast/chip should be the standard

Certainly, the 2600 featured in the 1992 catalogue, according to Simon Cornwell's site, but I'm not certain of when they began to be used in Blackpool - we'd gone there for a family holiday in 1994, but none of the photographs taken at the time feature the street lighting, and I wasn't interested back then to pay attention myself...very remiss of me, I know!

Well, this one isn't a factory model, but is probably one better, being a conversion by the legendary JPS!

Finally ticked off the list! Sourced one whilst over in the Netherlands.. very happy chap here!

Splendid news - if in doubt, visit Philips' homeland! How does the gear area compare in an "official" version to mine?

Judging by the shape of the bowl, I would agree that the one in your video is the same.

She had good taste!

​@@StreetLightOnline hi yes 👍 It's funny how things stick in our minds ..

Not the only one at all - I think the same thing!

​@@StreetLightOnline yes it's very sad 😢

That's probably why I go to town with the decorating, despite living alone and not having anyone else to appreciate my efforts!

Thank you - that's greatly appreciated! I hope that your collection goes from strength-to-strength - I'm on about the 200 figure now, so that's your aspiration! You'll enjoy the next update when it lands, as there are very many new Survivor articles - in fact, I still have a number on my "to-do" list that require photographing for the next update!

Hmm...I'm not certain - of course, in the past, double-doored columns were a necessity with separate-geared lanterns on double-arm brackets (or lanterns with multiple lamps), but in the modern era, I can't see a need for them, ordinarily. That said, the double-arm column that replaced the one that supported my Gamma 3 is double-doored, despite this being unnecessary, whilst the column where my Gamma 4 had been is single-doored, but is also a double-arm!

They used to be relatively commonplace around here - now, I know of only one left locally. I appreciate the irony of Alpha 3s cropping up more frequently, when it was an Alpha 3 that I was supposed to be receiving, and the 204 was what had been left for me instead!

They are - and in fact, on the 250 W version, the ballast is slightly too large for the available space, requiring some careful trimming in the factory for it to fit!

So is it possible to retrofit a 50w SGS203 with a 250w gear tray?

Yep - though the running costs will increase somewhat!

Also - Is it possible to run a 250w MBF lamp or 250w metal halide lamp on a 250w SON ballast?

Metal halide, yes; mercury, no, as the running current / voltage are different.

I can confirm that things are happening behind the scenes, though I don't know when the next update will arise as my list of things to visit, photograph and document rarely diminishes! Nevertheless, thank you for the details of that Z5590 - I can't help thinking that it might be woefully inadequate for providing any sort of useful light to that portion of the road, particularly with the bowl having discoloured to the extent that it has!

@@StreetLightOnline I have been to the location at night before and yes it doesn't give off barely any light at all, but i forgot to take pictures! However i do have a daytime photo of the one on gernon road. Edit: *Unfortunately one of the Z5590s was replaced by an MI26 in recent years, but there are still 2 in that estate.*

The fact that it was replaced with an MI 26 in the modern era is music to my ears!

@@StreetLightOnline Yeah it even shows proof of that when you check on google maps, you will see it on gernon road!

They're a bit of a bodge, but that's probably what makes them more appealing. I have heard of the MI57 - are there any noticeable differences between this and the MI55?

@@StreetLightOnline The only difference is that the gear tray on the MI57 has space for an ignitor so you can run regular SON-T SON-E and even CDO-TT which looks amazing when warming up in an MI50!

Ah, I see - I expect that the 55 was the more 'budget' version, in that case, though I shudder to think at how toasty the innards would become in the event of a tubular lamp being installed! I expect that a CDO lamp must be quite a glare bomb too!

Thanks! Up until the tour, I'd never heard of Denham Golf Club station, and we (the others sitting around the table seat and I) thought it quite amusing for a station to be given such an 'exclusive' name! I have just viewed your own coverage, incidentally - very good indeed; you've done well to capture the sense of speed - I liked the leaves being scattered at Bicester North in the train's wake!

Is it definitely the case that the lanterns were swapped, and not just retro-fitted with an LED panel? I only ask, as this 2019 view looks to have a lamp fitted: maps.app.goo.gl/x24VsNggP8NV3Tsk7 , whereas this 2021 view appears to have the LED module: maps.app.goo.gl/xVqYGaHsQ2AoUaDo7 , and the drip runs courtesy of the local feathered friends look to be the same - maybe, the only time when bird droppings can be considered useful! I'm surprised that they discontinued production, as I'd have thought that a sleek, modern design such as that would remain popular in LED form.

@@StreetLightOnline Yes. Ever since they were replaced with the LED versions, the lantern size has shrunken.

Probably put on too hot a wash!

@@StreetLightOnline I contacted Schréder and they responded telling me that the Furyo is still available, but only for a short time and it will be discontinued imminently. Shame really, as the Furyo is sleek and stylish and they compliment the Flo brackets really well.

That's a surprise - I assume that they must still have sufficient parts to be able to make up complete lanterns, but by the sounds of it, these are beginning to run low.

Absolutely - the brackets were designed for outdoor use, so that's perfectly acceptable! AC Ford is no longer trading, however - the last owner retired, and passed the tooling to Pudsey Diamond. As regards ingress protection, this version of the Beta 5 is rated at IP23, which was fairly standard for the time that it was made. Subsequent versions saw this improved to IP54, and even IP65 in some cases.

@@StreetLightOnline do you know if Pudsey Diamond are manufacturing AC Ford products? Thanks for the info.

I believe that they are making ex-AC Ford swan necks and the like (you're best contacting them to check, however), but I'd guess that the more functional modern wall brackets are those made to Pudsey Diamond's own designs.

I've mentioned somewhere before that the only drawback I had with them is that the colour temperature bears a strong resemblance to that of vehicle headlights, causing me to be extra-cautious when approaching junctions, as I thought that something was approaching from another part of the junction! They're also not great in fog - the same as SON.

⁠​⁠​⁠@@StreetLightOnline I’m sure Cosmo lighting wouldn’t be a problem now, seeing as most headlights nowadays are a cold white colour. I personally think Cosmo is more pleasant to drive under than LED, however SOX was the best light source in terms of glare control.

Modern headlights are the bane of my life, as I have sensitive eyes, and I find the cool white extremely glary! Indeed, SOX-lit motorways were always a pleasure to drive along!

It isn't terribly easy to access the insides of the bowls, owing to the SealSafe optic, and equally, when they discolour, I don't know if replacement was ever done. That said, there was a ZX3 in Nottinghamshire where the lamp wasn't positioned correctly, and had burnt a hole in the plastic. I've just gone on Street View to see if it's visible, but even in the earliest views from 2008, the fault no longer exists - it must have been repaired (or the lantern replaced completely) longer ago than I thought, unless I really am starting to crack up, and dreamt the whole thing! Cosmo doesn't seem to have too much of a yellowing effect, from what I've seen - some of the 140 W Iridiums around here have slightly discoloured bowls, but it is only minor, and could be from sunlight. I suppose that the Chingford Road examples could be 250 W on account that it's a high street, with plenty of night-time activity - they didn't take long to discolour, though - in the earliest images, the bowls still look fully transparent! That'd be an interesting sight if they were converted, rather than replaced entirely!

@thelightingenthusiast The ZX3s on station road were installed approximately between 2000-2002 according to the condition of the bowls in 2008. There is a photo of Station Road from 1992 which shows SGS203s on blue columns. The columns must have been painted blue, then black, then grey. I live near that road so I have photographed them many times. It is a shame the ZX2s were replaced, I wonder what Waltham Forest's dominant main-road lantern was before that?

Sadly, I can’t provide a street view link as CZcams will automatically delete my comment after 20 seconds.

Not a problem - I found it! Yes, that is rather surprising - I guess that some ZX1s must have been put back on the shelves following replacement, as the powers that be knew that they were more reliable (probably!), and thus, would be drafted back into use! I'm surprised that the other lanterns on that service road were not changed to Axia 2s at the same time, mind you. Yeah, that column has been clobbered a time or two - probably, by the bin lorry! This column gained a second-hand Iridium after its OrangeTEK packed up: maps.app.goo.gl/NouHootgJ14Gb96b9 - as far as I know, it's still like that! As you'll see in the historical views, the column used to support an MA 90, and its bracket was longer.

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@StreetLightOnline Heh, you’re probably right! I wouldn’t be surprised if that Axia 2 was subsequently replaced after it failed. Compared to most other London Boroughs, Waltham Forest’s LED replacements are moving at a rather slow pace. From driving past recently, I’ve noticed that the bracket has now been blown the wrong way. I suspect the column will either be straightened or replaced, but the latter seems more likely at this point. Also, very interesting that the Iridium replaced a failed AriaLED, that lantern must stick out like a sore thumb!

That's good to know! There have been brackets here that have spun around too, though these have all been on far more major roads, and always seem to be the Stainton type - there was at least one that had done that on the section of the M1 that passes through this area - the Sapphire 3 (as it was at the time) was doing a fantastic job of illuminating the adjacent field for quite a while - maybe even until LED replacement came along! Going back to the Hall Road one, I guess that if the column isn't bent at ground level, a straightening may suffice, but some engineers are a little too handy with the Stihl saw (other brands are available), and would cut it down regardless! Indeed, I think that the Iridium is a Cosmo one, so it'll be belching out warm white light while the remaining AriaLEDs are cool/neutral white!

⁠@@StreetLightOnline One of the zebra crossing columns on York Road was recently damaged after it got hit by a lorry (I think) and the column was chopped down, leaving just the stump. A new column was then installed next to it weeks later, but they never removed the stump from the old column. I should also mention the new column doesn’t have a lantern and a Belisha beacon yet, but I’d imagine the stump will be removed once they finish.

I don't, I'm afraid - I don't do "social", unfortunately! How did a Gamma 6 canopy fit when the GEC lantern is considerably wider at the top?

Oh, I forgot about the wide-brimmed canopy - I'm now curious to know how the lantern was modified internally to hold it in place, given that the GEC lantern uses a completely different means of securing the canopy compared to a Gamma 6!

@@StreetLightOnline yeah , since theres no node on the lamp that means its private owned to the building, but il definitely ask and see what intresting retrofitting "scheme" they done to it, Also around the building at the carpark theres another gec and an old gamma 6.

If they've just wrapped the whole thing in copious amounts of insulation tape to hold it all together, I will be most displeased!

If it is badged as a Z9554M with a paper label, it will be a GRP canopy (the 'M' suffix represents "moulded" in this instance), but if it's badged as a Z9554, and the badge is metal, it will be an aluminium canopy.

@@StreetLightOnline Thank you so much! I guess they do this with their other lanterns like the NightWatch , always wondered why they looked so oddly “smooth” . Just wonder why they do it.

Well, the smoothness never lasted long, once the lantern was on the road, sadly! I suppose that a reduction in cost was the main reason for the switch to GRP, but there was also the advantage in a reduction in overall weight.

@@StreetLightOnline yeah that makes sense now, I’m pretty sure they switched to GRP in the 80’s or late 70’s?

That would be about right, I think - my own example (i.e. the one in this video) was manufactured in April 1985.