SHŌGUN Episode 7 "A Stick of Time" SPOILER REVIEW!! | FX | Hulu
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- čas přidán 15. 05. 2024
- SHŌGUN, a brand new series based on the James Clavell novel, dropped its SEVENTH episode "A Stick of Time" on FX and HULU. The series stars HIROYUKI SONADA, COSMO JARVIS, and ANNA SAWAI. Outplayed by new alliances in Osaka, Toranaga is forced to carve out a new deal with a long lost family member.
The Outlaw John Rocha is joined by his The Cine-Files cohost and James Clavell historian Steve Morris for a SPOILER REVIEW of this SHŌGUN episode!
Chapters:
0:00 Intro and Overall Thoughts
4:15 Saeki Is Introduced and Impacts Toranaga and Nagakado
10:45 Gin's Plea for the Tea Houses, Outflanks Toranaga
15:41 Blackthorne, Mariko and Buntar Treading Water
22:06 Yabushige's Loses Status with Ishido
23:41 A Shocking Death and the Meaning of Saeki's Final Line
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He actually said something about a beautiful death to his uncle when his uncle came out the cave & his uncle replied death was a lonely path. That’s why when he died his uncle said, “where is the beauty in this?”
They missed this? I quit watching this review.
@@zanechiit's really disappointing, especially seeing Steve seeming to understand so little. I'm convinced he's not even paying attention most of the time, he's just waiting for the swordfights.
Exactly. In this an other reviews for other shows Rocha routinely misses details. And it’s not like he’s someone doing this for fun or as a hobby, so we can give him a pass. If you’re reviewing shows for a living like this, get the key details right!
Interesting that most of the reviewers I watched did not catch that Gin actually indirectly telling Toronaga that she knows this whole 'show' is under his plan, because she says it is weird that Toronaga makes such a careless mistake of exposing himself. In return, Toronaga of course can't blatantly say that she is right, but the result is, Gin gets what she wants.
I believe that nothing is in shock to Toronaga in this episode, right at the start when he let his brother in without any defence. As you said, patience is his tactics, and though I don't know how this is going to turn out, I do think he is using this to let himself having more possibility to eliminate more opponents, people who are not totally loyal to him.
This is why Blackthorne and Mariko is to me the centre of this episode, and I disagree that this is repeating. Superficially, it seems that their storyline is not going forward, but how they react and what are they speaking to whom is vastly different from previous episodes. If you ask me, Blackthorne is way more subdue in his reactions to things. Firstly, he already can speak Japanese in a full sentences rather than in single words. That indicates that he is well aware of what is happening around him by not needing to totally having Mariko to translate for him. Secondly, Blackthorne is not asking Toronaga for his ship again. In fact, he's asking for clarification of what does Crimson Sky actually will be practically, because he wants to know his role in this mission. Yet Toronaga refuses to talk about that with him, so Blackthorne, in my opinion, is still contemplating on his loyalty to Toronaga. He then sighs and tells Mariko to tell Toronaga, 'I'm ready for whatever our fate may bring', yet Mariko's translation is that Blackthorne will stand with Toronaga. Firstly, Mariko is highly protecting Blackthorne in all of these episodes, which is a show of deep love to him, while this scene also shows Blackthorne's sensitivity on the situation as he senses that there might be no Crimson Sky. Don't forget, this is before the dinner scene.
And for the whole episode, the only time Blackthorne talks about a plan to escape is when he was with Mariko and Fuji alone in their estate. That is the time when he shows his care towards Mariko. For the rest of the episode, he was contemplating with all the others and tries to become less 'visible' as he can sense that the situation is not an advantage to him.
Yet, we can also see that Blackthorne and Mariko are more and more comfortable with each other even in public events, as oppose to a sole relationship of subject and translator. Check out their dinner scene. It indicates that Mariko and Blackthorne are more and more alienating from the surroundings, a strictly Japanese environment.
As for the later scene of Toronaga, Buntaro and Mariko, they are speaking in riddles. Buntaro is the first who shows his 'weaknesses' of his love to Mariko, because Toronaga forces him to spill out if he would kill Mariko as well. Mariko knows that, and she also knows that Buntaro cannot kill Blackthorne without the permission from Toronaga due to his nature of 'honour'. She knows that she has the upper-hand in this situation. However, Toronaga also knows that Mariko sets her heart to Blackthorne, thus he interrogates her on where her heart is. Of course Mariko cannot tell the truth, thus she gives the most 'respectful' answer to Toronaga and asks for death. Seriously, both of them know that this is a lie (look at Sanada's eyes right before he throws away the dagger from Anna's hands, that he knows what she is playing), and no one will die because there are stakes. As always, Mariko is protecting Blackthorne is every bit of way.
And if you ask me what makes Mariko falls in love with Blackthorne? Well, this is the part where this show really has a perspective on showing how Mariko is a modern woman, a woman who has independent thoughts on how she wants to treat her life. She is not loving a hero. In fact, she loves a man who has endurance who doesn't succumb to fate, a man who is tender to her, cares about her, and most importantly, willing to understand her. Yet, he's also not dumb. He's innocent, but not dumb, because he has the sensitivity to understand how to survive for a cause. This Blackthorne is not like the Blackthorne in the book or in the 1980 mini-series of showing a certain kind of 'heroism'. He is a hero to Mariko because he treats her as a mutual companion.
Perfectly put. Honestly I think the people who dislike the show just miss a lot of these types of details.
@@Wasthere73 You can clearly see Steve falls squarely into this category. He's constantly bringing up the book or 1980 show instead of enjoying this one on its own merits. It's so obnoxious.
I hear what everyone's saying about Blackthorne, but I actually prefer the fact that he's being put more in the background. I feel like this is more of a Toranaga story who I find much more interesting of a character to follow overall. As far as Mariko's love story with Blackthorne, I feel that for her, he represents a form of freedom or escape from her "world" which is the main driving force for her affections for him. So when Toranaga forces her to choose between being loyal to him or Blackthorne she instead reveals her true desire for death, which is something she’s wanted since episode 1.
Thing is, you find Toranaga much more interesting because he's written much more interestingly. If they'd made Blackthorne more interesting then you'd have two characters to be super invested in following.
@@ZachBobBob I agree with the OP. I don’t need a some great love story for Blackthorn and I don’t need him become some great warrior.
Seen in the Tom Cruise film and I just never bought it.
There is a certain verisimilitude to Blackthorn and Mariko’s romance being a struggle and Blackthorn not become some heroic character. All he wants to do is go home and it’s so obvious as he keeps wanting a boat.
A little surprised at the criticisms this time, ngl, but I appreciate your honesty. I, for one, am happy to put my faith both in Toranaga's ability to plan ahead, and the writers' ability to deliver a standout show.
It's excruciatingly painful to see John and Steve talk so much about the Gin character and miss the most important part of the scene she had with Toranaga - the fact that she KNOWS Toranaga isn't "stuck in a rut" but actually carrying out his plan exactly as intended. She was the only one who saw something he was trying to keep hidden from literally everyone else, she's the one who recognized that Toranaga was too clever to get cornered. Seriously, is there something in the water that's making these guys miss something that was so clearly spelled out? This is literally an episode about Toranaga making strategic moves and Steve is crying about nothing happening. He should really just stick to reviewing Marvel movies.
@@boxtears Exactly! They named the episode for the scene.
The title of the episode is "A Stick Of Time." Toranaga is buying time, just as Gin did literally.
Re: Toranaga's son, I took it as there's a difference between your first kill with your sword versus just an ambush with the cannons.
Blackthorne, himself, keeps asking why he's here, why he's honored, yet also forced to do, basically, nothing.
It seems like Blackthorne has been playing his subservient role because he believed in Toranaga but now he's feeling like that faith was misplaced.
I think Blackthorne is gonna have to take a little power into his own hands going forward.
to me was one of the strongest episodes
Saeki is the best addition to the show!
Not to mention, once Toronaga officially surrenders, Blackthorne’s look speaks so much that he knows Toronaga is playing. He ends up calling him out yet in a very clever way by not letting most of the people there know what he says, except one…
He’s is as smart as Gin…
Loving the show. But I feel like Toronaga and Blackthorne should be becoming friends… due in part, to Blackthorne’s foreign perspective and resourcefulness. Yes, it’s a trope. Yes, it’s cliched. But some stories have these things for a reason. At present they just seem to be in each other’s orbit, rather than impacting each other directly - other than in the earthquake situation, which was great.
I believe the producers said they changed some of the names because the books names were a bit modern for the time period. So they changed it to reflect that.
As a Japanese myself, the names of some characters in the book are odd and unrealistic. No wonder the producers changed those names for Japanese viewers.
Still think episodes flowed strong I dont see a weak one yet. The women are moving up in high positions and alliances are getting stronger
I shouted “no! Lando!!” During this ep…. Then absolutely gasped at the ending
Just say thank you both for another interesting, mature, true episode-episode review.
The brothers are working together
This First kill doesn't mean the first kill of a person, it means the first battle kill, the first proof of bravery as a samurai. So, literally, the son never stepped onto a battlefield formally and had his first kill.
Hence why he was charged with the murder of Jozen, yes? As in, it was specifically a murder, not an honourable kill within the bounds of their system. That's how I read it...
Steve sounds like he's on his phone most of the time. Despite knowing how the book ends and seeing the 1980 show, he misses a lot of key details and character development. It's no wonder this is the weakest episode for him, most of it flew right over his head.
One of the best episodes for me as a non-book reader.
how different are book and show?
I think Toronaga orchestrated his brothers position on the Council. It would show how he's a puppet master all along.
I disagree with these guys’ takes. We were factually shown Blackthorne speaking fluent Japanese as opposed to his broken Japanese a few episodes before. The names are changed for authenticity to the time period which the James Claville had got wrong in the books. The episode is really all about whether Toranaga has things under control or he doesn’t! It’s juxtaposed with how he has been portrayed all season long as being the guy who has everything under control. He seems to lose control of his brother, his son, Buntaro, Mariko and Blackthorn yet Lady Gin hints at the prospect of that Toranaga has a plan after all. Whether he does or not is a debate we will have as fans till the next episode. This wasn’t a lull. It was a cerebral episode. This is the problem with “books are better than the film” people.
Not having read the book, I’m about 75-90% convinced that we won’t be having sekigahara on screen; instead, the final set piece battle would be a blitz attack on Osaka Castle.
The biggest tell is the convo with Gin and Toranaga, this is the first time our hands got held.
Also, as you guys said, it feels like some of the things that have already been addressed seems to be repeated. If I’m trying to draw a thematic olive branch, the only thing I can think of is that these stuff got repeated because “other people” are watching and observing them.
Fact is, you can still see the wheels turning in Toranaga’s head: Saeki thinks he has won, so Toranaga says his answer will be by sunset the following day; meaning he bought a full day, maybe two.
Muraji (I’m forgetting his true name) has not been put into play for the past few episodes.
The assassination attempt happened AFTER the convo between Toranaga and Gin. Tea houses like the willow world pride themselves on safety and privacy, plus Saeki was a VIP; so frontal entry is impossible, someone had to let Nagakado in via a blind spot (and I feel like that should have been Omi, but he got Nagakado to get his hands dirty. AGAIN)
That conversation, given that there are people watching, it’s such a roundabout way to negotiate a favour for a price.
And also, Blackthorne only calls two people before he storms off: Yabushige and Nagakado (the two trained to lead the cannon regiment). He’s a barbarian so Saeki doesn’t take him seriously. If there is a plan that includes him, it would be to get him out of sight on to get everyone to believe Toranaga is completely and utterly defeated. The only thing that remains is to see if the Uno reverse card will be played out in a convincing and satisfactory manner.
Well they can't do Crimson Sky without enough soldiers so that was the point of teaming up with evil brother. But they may not need to. Toranaga is a skilled diplomat who always prefer a peaceful solution. He could go to Osaka alone and kill Ishida himself without involving the death of so many people in an all out battle.
@@jonfreeman9682 now that my head is cooled down, knowing my history, and taking into account that we still have three full episodes left, I can lay out a scenario on how Sekigahara can still be played out on screen with the setup we have so far.
1. Ohno, the Christian lord, will largely be idle and not join the battle; maybe even turn against Ishido mid fight, coaxed along by the Portuguese missionaries who in turn had promises from Toranaga for a church in Edo.
2. Saeki would be indecisive and in the flank. Some time into the battle, Ishido will order him to attack, but he will not. Toranaga will command Blackthorne to fire cannons on him and that will force him to act. That way, saeki will turn and attack the lepper lord, and ishido’s flank will collapse.
And probably 3. The Noh actor samurai lord will be convinced to defect to the Toranaga side by Ochiba-sama; who I think would agree to marry Ishido on episode 8 after he defeats Toranaga, playing to his Ego to go to the open field instead of turtle up in Osaka Castle.
You see almost nothing of Sekigahara in the books too. Sekigahara is covered by a single paragraph postscript in the book. When I read it I almost chucked it across the room.
@@MichaelCorryFilms so I’ve heard. Have not read the book, and I think the author made a wise choice not to include Sekigahara if he lacked the expertise. As I know the broad strokes of history, the draw of the show for me is what they will decide to execute and in what manner. And so far, other than some few nit picks here and there, it’s been a great ride. I doubt they will mess up the finish the same way Nagakado did.
@@khaii13 Wow that's a vivid imagination of how it might play out. Love the part where John Blackthorne sails the high seas again blasting his cannons to storm the castle. We all wanna see Crimson Sky and I think we're gonna get it next episode.
Can't believe how much I was anticipating this review....absolutely love it partnered with Shogun Podcast
As I'm watching this show and your review of it, I really wondering why Mr. Sanada was so familiar to me.. I've seen him in things these last 15 years but I felt I knew him before.. He was the one who was in the all my fav ninja movies with Sony Chiba from the 80s... Respect was already there but now it has skyrocketed!!!!! Lol love the review and the show is fantastic...
Best one was *THE LAST SAMURAI!*
He started out as a Vegeta or Piccolo type antagonist and accepted Algren as a brother in arms.
In the book blackthorn had a ‘change” that they did not show .. which changed the entire feeling of Mariko and Blackthorn Blackthorn was reborn as a Japanese
This sounds awfully like the white guy appropriating another culture and becoming a better version of that culture. It’s the kind of stuff I appreciate this show not doing .
@@majorlazor5058 listen the book was written by a white guy in 1978 I take it as a white guy who became a better version of himself it’s not about cultural appropriation more like assimilation
the producers said some names were changed because they were modern japanese names and not historically accurate
It's was Barzini all along.
I've recently re-read Shogun. This episode strayed the most from the books, I still enjoyed it very much, but yes, I do wonder what Toranaga will be doing with the death of his son, which was never in the novel. Personally, I like the toned down version of Anjin and Mariko's romance. I never particularly cared for it in the novels. I'd go so far as to say Clavell isn't up to the task of writing romance, I found most of the passages cringe worthy. So this slimmed down romantic subplot suites me just fine.
Toranaga is a 4d chess playing trickster. He & his brother may be setting up a Trojan Horse scenario where he gains access to Osaka by offering himself as the Trojan horse and once inside Osaka's walls T & his brother flip the script.
Blackthorn's mocking of Toranaga after he surrenders is uncharacteristic. The Anjin may be a knowing pawn in Lord T's game.
With only three episodes left it's gonna take a miracle for Shogun to end well.
It could be and Toranaga might face off with Ishida and kill him personally. This avoids a costly battle and death of so many soldiers. Toranaga always preferred a peaceful diplomatic solution. He was opposed to Crimson Sky.
If you have read Far from the Madding Crowd, then you'll understand why Mariko falls in love with Blackthorne, and all the things they're going through. They're basically Bathsheba and Gabriel, just that one has a happy ending while one doesn't.
The brothers are in kahoots....it's gonna be a double double cross
There are quite a few people that agree with that theory.
Oh man with son dead, it's all out war for Toranaga. Operation Crimson Sky!!!!
Maybe it’s too late into this but you guys should have a Book Spoilers section to discuss what’s different from the book.
While watching this review, as a non-novel reader, I kept asking why you were so obsessed with Blackthorne and Mariko's relationship development, and made this a critical standard to judge the show. I can agree that this show made Blackthorne weak in involvement with the great event in the story, which let his character less important than I expected, at this stage, I hope he established a tie between his fate and Toronaga's goal.
Love your reviews guys. This Show is epic!! But I completely understand Steve's takes. He actually had me thinking🤔 💭 🤔 Dam blackthorn really has been regulated to the token white guy. Lmaoooo 🤣 🤣 🤣
Buntaro would be completely within his rights to take Blackthorn's head just for him being alone in the house with his wife. And Toranaga would have nothing to say about it, for fear that Buntaro might take his clan and all his soldiers over to the other side. Toranaga would have never insulted such an important person as Buntaro just for Blackthorn, who is useless to him in this battle.
Everyone surrounding Tornaga is frustratingly, to Toranaga and by proxy to us, self absorbed that the behaviours of Yabushige, Buntaro, Omi, Nagakado, Mariko and John all bog down to repetitiveness. However, I suspect that this is designed to allow the "stlick of time" scene to stand out. Nobody understands Toranaga except a ma-ma-san can really send Toranaga into a deep depression (and carry us with him).
I agree with Steve that it's more important to develop characters rather than to produce a certain mood at the expense of the characters arcs.
I totally agree with you two about Blackthorne's overall appearance & development in this series.
I’m not convinced this is 1 season.
Even when producers and actors talk about it they refer to "in this season" implying there will be more.
I don’t see how they pull off the rest of the story in 3 episodes without it looking rushed and chaotic. The tempo gives the feeling like if there is going to be a season 2, which I don’t think there is going to be.
I just pray they do Taipan amd Gaijin and the rest of the asian saga. As far as this episode I don't know if you guys watched boardwalk Empire but remember the Arnold Rothstein quote about not making bets if there's no bets to make, and when there is bet it all. The genius of buying one more day. Blackthorne should know more japanese by now, i cant beleive they skipped a certain scene from the book in relation to that.
I would love to see them do Taipan (not really a big fan of Gaijin) and same about the scene they skipped.
@@stevemorris781 Yeah man dont know why they skipped that, it was a big character building moment. Im about to watch the new episode. Why didnt you like Gai-Jin? I loved the japanese characters but there was too much Angelique lol.
@@alkalinemk1588 My issue with Gaijin is that it's far more of an ensemble piece and that there's no central character I really like. Yes some of the storylines are interesting (particularly as you say the Japanese characters) But the Struan heir and the love interest (Angelique?) are really irritating as are many of the other European characters and there is no Blackthorne/Toranaga, Marlowe/King or Bartlett&KC/Dunross level characters and definitely no Dirk Struan (who is probably my favorite)
@@stevemorris781 ahhh i totally agree, that was well put. A lot of the European characters were depressing as well. And we all missed the legend Dirk!! Haha
And Steve, correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the Erasmus been burned to the waterline at this point in the book?
not till after Osaka.
@@stevemorris781 it's been about 15 yrs since I last read it, and that was about the 4th or 5th time
I'm extremely disappointed that, unlike the book, they haven't gotten Blackthorne more versed in the Japanese language, without Mariko or Father Alvito there isn't any communication between him and any other character
ENTIRE episode i keep saying to myself they have horrible shoes. Damn slippers, they need solid leather traction. And behold... i start laughing like a madman at home.
Since this version is more Japanese centric, they may be lessening the romance between Blackthorn and Mariko since it is distasteful to many Japanese who actually know their history.
Agreed. For example, Mariko asking to die-which seems contradictory to the reveal of episode 6-is a very Japanese thing. She can’t directly say “Anjin is the only person keeping me from drowning in my own despair” so when Toranaga was asking her to choose, she responded the only way she can.
And Toranaga was also forced to do that because in the dinner with Saeki, Mariko wasn’t just translating, she was actually animated in that conversation, in front of her husband. It’s all subtext and subtleties (read: passive-aggressive)
But still, Blackthorne just asking for his ship for 3 episodes straight??? They are downplaying him too much.
@@khaii13And they downplay her Catholicsm which would prevent her from suicide.
@@joeyartk that I actually don’t mind so much, as it can simply be brushed away with her asking someone to take her life for her.
And in this iteration regardless, they are focusing on her as a highborn Japanese lady; and only used the faith as a plot device for her proficiency in Portuguese
I agree with the latter point, but assisted suicide is still suicide to the church. Plus it makes adultery much harder to brush off if you are supposed to be a devout Catholic.
@@joeyartk yep. But way back in episode 1, Mariko remarked that she had two hearts. But also that her faith is not true if it cannot be tested. Plus I don’t think the idea of assisted suicide existed in the 1600, so that might be their logic.
Get real
Expect a flashback where Toranaga instructs Blackthorn what to do in this situation, and he attacks the half-brother with a cannonade. If not, they are simply going to emasculate Blackthorn because he's a white guy. I certainly hope my first idea is correct.
I agree about how Blackthorn is being setup and that this was my least favourite episode.
First!
To me it feels like the message the show is going for with Blackthorn is that he could never learn the language and culture even though his character is based on a guy who spent 20+ years there
But he's been there, what, less than a year, and he _IS_ learning the language and culture. The TV Blackthorne doesn't have 20 years in the country yet, why are you assuming that he couldn't do it? There's nothing in the show to back your theory...
They are treating Blackthorne like a Mascott. It's like they are trying to hard to avoid the White Savior Trope so bad it's actually hurting the show. Its a Discredit to the Real person hes based on and to the actor thats portraying him. They are trying to downgrade him out of fear of the backlash I think. The Irony is people are still accusing the show of using Blackthorne as the "White Savior" anyway. The Caucasian Man Blackthorne is based on was very crucial to that period in Japan and they bestowed great honors on him because he was a great man. BTW I am a Blackman saying this so I'm very aware of this Trope and don't feel its at play in this show. If there was a time to put this Trope in ,it wouldn't be so far fetched in my opinion. Afterall he did Marry a Japanese woman and he was I believe the first Caucasian Samurai. To me thats incredible. I was told
Maybe I should just shut up because I'm not Japanese.
It’s not possible for non-Japanese speakers to get the pronunciation of the names right if they haven’t studied the language. But at least say the name of the show properly!
the character of Blackthorne is HORRID in this series. He's brave, yes, but a BOOR and an OAF. Nothing more. No charm. There is no "love story", not even attraction/chemistry between him and Mariko. What would attract her to a boor and an oaf, with zero charm and zero interest in learning about Japanese culture? what kind of a "falcon" from the book is he?? none. Some big changes from the book in this episode. (Toranaga's son doesn't die in book and doesn't attempt the murder) Harris SPOT ON re Blackthorne character. They KEY thing the Mamasan knows is a tidbit about Toranaga's brother. which is really important .. but they didn't show this??
Disagree
the stupidity of Toranaga's son, after he's been chided and scolded numerous times by his Father, and even his Uncle, is the show's wokester comment on "toxic masculinity". Apparently young "toxic" men cannot learn from their stupidity and mistakes and will not accept repeated guidance from their elders.
Wokester? Are you for real?
@@pglanville being provocative, but quite real. This entire story is imagined (it's NOT in the book) and the refusal of the young son to accept repeated mentorship and his "bloodlust"/ glorification of violence is IMO some wokester writer's example of "toxic masculinity"
From this episode on, it is officially forbidden to humiliate anyone on the basis of identity - except straight white men. The episode continues the campaign to 'decenter' white men from the narrative. It shows Blackthorne completely out of touch and at odds with his surroundings and Japanese culture. When, for instance, he rants about what he wants to do with the ship, he is made to declare that doing something is better than just sitting around waiting - precisely the opposite of Toranaga's wiser response.
Leading up to the theme of the danger of fatalism. Toranaga admonishes his son, "Do not accept it [fate]!" Mizoguchi was defeated, because he accepted his fate "It was fate that forced me [!] into declaring an un-winnable war."; and Blackthorne, too, makes the mistake of accepting his fate under Buntaro's sword. But as Gin declares, "Fate is like a sword, useful only to those who can wield it" (again, unlike Blackthorne). .T's brother tells Nagakado his legacy is worth thinking about. To live with the shame of having betrayed one's family is better than being slaughtered 'like chickens' and forgotten. Nagakado responds, "If it's my fate, then it will be a beautiful death." Toranaga, on the other hand, chooses the middle way between accepting 'a beautiful death" nor dishonor.
There is a clear agenda of elevating the female characters here, but that comes at the expense of the male characters, and thus lessens the whole show.
lol how are the male characters lessened?
Is it a good show or isn't it? That's all that really should matter, stop getting all wrapped up in your misinformed, stupid feelings bruh.
@@Buckifan822by being pictured as foolish brutes, while all the women are smart and strong.
@@jp-47471It's OK, but could be much better without the modern feminist emphasis.
@@joeyartk which male character is a foolish brute? Omi? Toranaga? Yabushige?