Pastor Calls For Second Time | Eugene - Oregon | Talk Heathen 02.34
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- čas přidán 28. 08. 2018
- Talk Heathen 02.34 for August 26, 2018 with Eric Murphy and Jamie Boone.
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WHAT IS TALK HEATHEN?
Talk Heathen is a weekly call-in television show in Austin, Texas geared toward long-form and on-going dialogue with theists & atheists about religion, theism, & secularism. Talk Heathen is produced by the Atheist Community of Austin.
The Atheist Community of Austin is organized as a nonprofit educational corporation to develop & support the atheist community, to provide opportunities for socializing & friendship, to promote secular viewpoints, to encourage positive atheist culture, to defend the first amendment principle of government-religion separation, to oppose discrimination against atheists & to work with other organizations in pursuit of common goals.
We define atheism as the lack of belief in gods. This definition also encompasses what most people call agnosticism.
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I'm sitting here in Norway, been an atheist my entire life. I'm 33 now.
And when that pastor drew in breath and let out a long thoughtful sigh....
I just started crying.
That stunned painful sobbing that comes when something huge hits you.
That sigh, contained the entirety of what ALL OF THIS is about.
The years of indoctrination.
The organization that is Christianity (all denominations, all of it).
The history of it all, throughout mankind, spanning all the nations.
The wars, the persecutions, all....those....murders....
The families torn apart by religion.
But most of all... right immediately... here now... with this man that has spent his entire life with this worldview.
All those years...
That sigh spoke with the weight of an entire library of stories.
"I had not thought about that before" -Eugene.
A good man.
I can count on one hand the amount of times I cry per year.
Today I cried for a good man.
I'll second this. We were seeing a tragedy play out, but one where the truth is revealed at last and mistakes can be rectified.
Powerful post!
@@criticalthinker2380 How is that a powerful post? You're basing the callers sigh and stall out on how every person must think or perceive. I don't see Alah or Rechard Dorkins as a god, any more than I believe the Quran or The God Delusion. However, I don't see any of it from an atheist perspective because I believe those gods exist and people see them as the arbiters of truth. So I would say I disagree with the philosophical concepts not the premises themselves as the atheist would. However, the caller sighed and hesitated to answer, so you take this to be some kind of retards, revelation, thinking you have made some big impact on controlling the perspective of the world.
@@nathanelder2718
You believe those gods exist?
Tell me why...and I'll show you the logical fallacy you're using to support that belief...
Tick tock
@@criticalthinker2380 You can't make a logical fallacy out of the way a system works or the way a person perceives a figure or a source as their highest authority. If you were so convinced that your philosophical or scientific standpoint, was so unfalsifiable, then why would you spend so much time defending it? Tell me why. Tick tock.
Pastor - “damn you got me, you’re gonna bring up the cloak being red or purple thing right?”
Erik- “No I was thinking about the contradiction of the so called creation of everything in existence”
I love how he says the cloak is red or purple (scarlet). uhh.... pastor..... How are you supposed to teach people something when you can't even get the correct definitions?
scar·let
/ˈskärlət/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
of a brilliant red color.
Well purple and red can be easily confused, especially depending on the lighting, the angle, and other various factors like did the first person see it before it got bloodstained? Was it wet making the red look darker?
Oh, uh what? Where were we.
@@ItsAcheron i got the impression he meant one passage calls the cloak purple and another calls the cloak red. Calling scarlet "red" is fine, especially when you're talking about a translation from another language. Alot of languages have completely different schemes for colors, i would think the safest translations would translate into the simplest representation of colors like using red instead of scarlet. Japanese used to use the same word for blue and green.
To clarify: Mark 15:17 calls it purple ("purpuram" in the Latin Vulgate), while Matthew 27:28 says scarlet/red/crimson* ("coccineam").
* even purple in some lax translations. 🙄
It's scary that a man like this offers people advice and counsel.
Robot Bjorn Examples of harm that this particular man can cause:
1. Will tell people they can go to an eternal punishment (Hell) leading them to make life decisions based solely on fear.
2. beliefs he teaches impedes intellectual progress
3. spreads homophobia and misogyny
4. votes and influences others to vote for limiting personal freedom i.e. equal marriage, abortion, drug laws,
5. climate change is not a problem when a god is in control
5 quick ones for you, there are many more, even with this “kind” man.
@@robotbjorn4952
"Why? He's a good man. His belief is just one aspect of his being."
His beliefs are based on poor judgment. Should I say more?
@@robotbjorn4952 sure he's kind, but damn near senile haha
@@robotbjorn4952 That's like saying Hitler was a good man, his hard stance RELIGIOUS beliefs killed a lot of people. That was an aspect of his being as well.
He might mean well, but his religious beliefs stop him from thinking outside of his little religious box that he lives in. Which makes him and people like him dangerous to some extent.
@@robotbjorn4952 He's a good man and said that the "cloak was red or purple (scarlet) well scarlet is red and here is the definition. Now remember he's a pastor teaching people this bullshit and he can't even get a fucking color right and he's teaching children, that's really harmful and if a teacher was found teaching things proven false and or showing they barely understand what they teach about they get fired, this man gets a congregation.
scar·let
/ˈskärlət/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
of a brilliant red color.
Poor Eugene, he's an elegant example of how religion turns human minds into dogshit.
I think you and I would get along famously
Yes but it's a living.
True. Hahaha.... Funny 👍
Delusional is not a survival strategy he can't get past his monkey nature 🙈🙉🙊
Not exaggerating but his irrational and immoral belief deserves NO respect.
See how long it took him to answer if he would disown/kick out his children if they stopped believing in his god? See that hypocricy? I feel sorry for his family.
I'm a Creationist - I believe man created God.
Jim Vernie exactly
Created to create order
And a justice system
heard that a lot before
@@kennym3492
Lol No. If there was a "system" of justice or whatever, it would have to be demonstrable. There is not, with religion it's Scare tactics, Fear mongering, abuse tactics all practices to keep the populace docile, meek and apatheic so that they'll be fully convinced they need you and your fabricated cure for their imposed fake disease.
Oh and with "you" i don't mean you you, lol.
Nicolas Broszky your absolutely right,
I did history and that’s exactly it. Popes had more say then kings.
And I’ve been currently doing demonstrations on the separation of humans within country borders as well education systems.
There will always be separation and racism as long as there is any religions.
And your right, the abuse scandals just blow my socks off.
I’ve been studying a lot of it lately as well. The project I’m working on is strictly on global human welfare
And your right about the sex abuse, it’s a trust thing. People trust these dirt bags.
Guy The Incognito absolutely agreed!
And I’m just going for the historical data with inter-twining mix of education styles and just teaching in general and the point that the pope had control over kings so In my personal opinion a good way to control a mass population would be with fear mongering and scare tactics just as you said :)
Love how he says that he doesn't accept the Book of Mormon because it was written by a con man, but provides zero evidence that the Bible wasn't.
This is why religious indoctrination dumb ppl down and it should be a crime against humanity!
Don't bash Joseph Smith as a con man but accept Paul as godly. Joseph Smith's account of his revelation from the angel is almost exactly the same way that Paul got his revelation from a vision from Jesus. They both claimed the mainstream version of Christianity were gone astray. Paul admits he never saw Jesus in real life and he disagreed with the disciples who actually walked with Jesus.
Tiberius 209 To quote Matthew McConaughey in season 1 of True Detective, “If the only thing keepin’ a man decent is the promise of divine reward, then brother, that man’s a piece of shit.”
@oops I wrote it.
I don't think that there is no evidence for the truth of the bible, I just believe it insufficient to support it's extraordinary claims.
I suspect most believers have belief for subjective or emotional reasons, which are not viable evidence and as such are rarely presented.
I respect this pastor for having a real and fair conversation in a venue that isn't exactly advantageous to his viewpoints.
Wow.. 22:22 gave me the shivers. His silence an then “ I never thought of this”. He actually listened and just not talked. You don’t hear that often from theists in T.H. or A.E.
I wish more theism debates went like this. Theres a difference between being misled and being outright dishonest. Eugene has a lot of integrity, best of luck to him in his journey to find the truth!
Jesus is the truth .
@@user-ki1un4jg2d No.
"i have the bible in my hand, the knowledge in my head and i use the two in tandem" this is such a beautifully stupid quote
"I have the steering wheel in my hand, the booze in my veins and I use the two in tandem."
That is what you say when you avoid giving a real answer.
I have the eyes in my head and a different part of my body in my hand, and I use the two in tandem.
Many have observed that the Bible is reasonably accurate, especially when thrown from short distances.
Thank you for that. Also, the Bible is very useful if you run out of toilet paper in these dark days of pandemic.
Brilliant
Thomas Bradley 😂😂😂
all good for when you run out of rolling papers
@@digiblak997 Lol. I really needed a laugh at this moment in time. Ty.
When he answered that he would not abandon his children of they didn't believe in his religion, it genuinely made me tear up. That is an answer that I haven't heard much and it's an answer that I myself haven't recieved from my own family. Hearing him actually put thought into it, probably for the very first time, just made my heart ache.
He did not put thought into it. After all he will be going to heaven to eternal bliss. happiness fulfilment, and while this is going on his kids are in constant agony of the worst kind. it's like having your children loved away in some politicians concentration camp because the politician is rejected by them. where is his heaven.
@@robb3210but their-in lies the problem. Eugene himself would not cast out his children for their lack of belief in god.
Whether he/they make it into heaven at the end of the day is beside the point.
The fact that Eugene would still love his children despite their lack of faith shows that he has more empathy than the Christian god and in many people’s opinion, makes him a more righteous and morally superior being than said god.
An extra tid-bit to think about is the fact that they are describing a situation where Eugene is disowning his children whereas the Christian god is tossing people into a fiery lake of hell for all of eternity for a lack of belief. Two drastically different condemnations
The reason why I began to cry when he used the analogy of disowning one’s own children is because I was ready to disown my children and wife over my “faith”.
Religion is horrible. Christians, if they were honest, would NEVER behave like their god. Great video.
Jesus is the truth .
@@user-ki1un4jg2dJesus is God, and God is tyrannical egomaniacal genocidal and the literal root of all evil
Well handled guys - having a civil, yet honest and searching conversation.
Keep up the conversation with Eugene.
Yes. The civility between the caller and the hosts was refreshing, compared to the usual woo woo idiotic rants from most theist callers.
Eugene is the city. I lived there for a time
Ya calling him Eugene makes me uncomfortable, he doesn't represent us.
When I think of what must be going on inside the callers head and the ramifications of being presented with what must be a massive inconvenient truth for him , humane would be a good description of the way they handled this gentleman .
Affording the believer some respect or kindness, while not respecting their belief is generally a far more effective means to encourage people to listen. If you want people to be persuaded or at least examine their belief honestly, you need them to be willing to hear what you're saying. You have an older gentleman who has lived with an unquestioned certainty for probably his entire life, and who came into his first call bristling with unflattering preconceived ideas of atheists, and now he is being polite and considering your points. Love it! Thanks to everyone at Talk Heathen.
Jenny...completely agree. Hosts are beyond patient and caller seems like a very nice guy
This pastor is not listening. You get that, right? Often it is simply pointless. One needs a receptive ear. This phone call was a waste of time for the individual. A receptive listener may get it. One on one? Turn and walk away. Time is the one thing that cannot be returned.
you can't argue with, "i know because i know"
Jennifer..true..that is the best way to communicate..n get the others to understand your views..
I see your point but no I am not going to respect a belief that is stupid and harmful.
It Is Difficult to Get a Man to Understand Something When His Salary Depends Upon His Not Understanding It
I don't think it's always monetary. You can definitely make the argument for mega church pastors. But, he very well may be a pastor of a group of like 50. (If he said otherwise, I don't remember).
I think something that does stand to hinder someone...is simply the length of time they've believed in something. I don't remember what that is called. But, when you have invested so much time, and money, into something...it is hard to cut your losses....Especially if you don't see any "cost" in just remaining where you are.
Bam 💥 🎯
From Adam Smith
@@jayvansickle7607 the thing you refer to is the sunken cost fallacy, and he said he was a pastor of an 8 person congregation in the past. Not sure how well that holds up, but that is his claim.
@@TheGamingLegendsOfficial I don't know what your past is.... but, with me... I literally feel sick to my stomach when I think of how much money I have given "the church" (different churches over the years) in my 20 years of being a Christian.
The long silence before he answers that last question speaks volumes.
My boyfriend’s dad is the same way as this guy. “God is real because I KNOW he’s real.” He told us that he’s heartbroken that we’re atheists. When I tried to explain to him that we don’t care what anyone believes as long as they don’t hurt other people, he instantly got angry and said things like “how can you say that?! That’s not true at all!” Needless to say, we don’t discuss religion anymore, which is sad to me, because I value having open minded discussions about topics like this. Every time he mentions god, we just have to keep our mouths shut because we know he won’t listen.
The only people you shouldn't discuss religion/politics with are those who haven't thought out their own reasoning on the subjects.
Yeah I've got a feeling that when you say you don't have discussions about religion any more that's a one sided thing and he gets to talk about his "god" all the time. Basically he's a bigot and you have to compromise yourself for harmony.
I've been pissing people off for over 20 years, I've honestly stopped caring if I piss them off. If your beliefs can't stand up to scrutiny (and I'm not trying to piss people off mind you) and you get upset that is the furthest thing from my fault or concern.
"we don't care what anybody believes as long as they don't hurt other people"
Why does this notion of harm come into play all of a sudden?
If we are just animals, why is our excitence more valuable then the rest of the creatures?
In an absolute sense it's not. In a subjective sense that is a choice we get to make as humans. All life lives off other life in some sense, but that doesn't mean life has no value and is not important. Simply put the answer to your question is because we determine it is.
I like the vibes of Pastor Eugene. I hope he was willing and able to call in again.
What a nice old man. I think he has doubt about his believes otherwise he wouldn´t call multiple times.
But now in his age he can´t just let go of his believes.
Agreed. But not impossible.
On point!
What!!?? The guy is a grade A w***er
Nice is not an adjective I would use to describe this KOOK!
Well there's something you think that isn't rationally supported. Probably shouldn't say his beliefs aren't rationally supported and then proceed to claim "I think he has doubts". Yea, sure he does. A pastor this old.
"If one of your children didn't believe in God, would you disown them?"
*Pause*
The fact that there is a pause is very concerning.....
That pause represents an entire life of service to his belief. The fact that he still answers no, is actually a very hopeful one.
Cris Dekker , I agree. Like @Lucy, I was maybe quick to think that his pause was concerning, but I have reconsidered, and I do think his answer is hopeful.
@@reinada7640 It is hopeful, but also concerning xD. It shouldn't have been there in the first place. But I am glad that his answer was "no" when for a lot of people the answer is "yes". At least he hasn't lost sight yet of what's truly important in life.
@@lucy9698
that's an old man.
with a lifetime of honest(unless he's the best troll on the internet) belief that screams "yes" at him.
and yet he managed to battle against his lifelong(and that's a long life) belief and let his own moral compass come through....that he was able to say "no" is quite remarkable.
imagine pablo escobar.
imagine one of this thugs is on a live talkshow, and pablo is sitting right next to him, and a bunch of his thugs are also in the crowd, all armed to the teeth....because they are thugs.
and the host asks the thug next to pablo "if your boss ordered you to kill your son, would you do it?" and with pablo watching the thug pauses for a moment and says "no".
that's pretty much what this old man did. in his mind yahweh sabaoth is spying on him every second of every day. and still he went against him, to defend his own child. that's a very powerful stance he took.
The pause is there because he probably never thought about that question and by saying no he displays a different morality than his god...
Matt would have exploded before the ten minute mark.
Apankou if so it would be because he's been doing what he does for so long and could tell the caller is too far gone. Matt has helped lay a foundation of open dialogue with those who are very difficult to talk to. Be appreciative of all these conversations, while we still can.
Be An Individual Sounds like he has faith that the call won’t go where he thinks it should....
True , Matt would have
“probably” exploded but most of the time Matt will let a person get away with at least one or two dishonest statements, then slowly explode. Jamie and Eric did great but I gotta give some credit to the pastor for his attempts to stay honest.
Actually, you're right! Matt is more mercurial than most of the hosts, for better or worse.
Sometimes you need that impatience or pressing personality. To put the bullshitters in place.
@@CJ-ov1pl it changed my mind. Matt's approach is needed, the abrasion is where the hard hitting stuff is.
That was a good call. I liked Eugene. He wouldn't disown his children if they didn't believe that says a lot coming from a Christian pastor. That little piece touched my heart.
Dude.....this poor guy....you can hear his entire world disintegrating and his voice is quivering 😢❤ . He seems like a genuinely good dude.😂❤
but he still won't let go of hi's immoral cult belief
Jesus is the truth .
Darwinist evolution is a lie and a cult .@@petermeichan3160
@@petermeichan3160it's hard. Especially if it's your livelihood and you've never known anything else, have no other skill, have a family to provide for etc. He was respectful and answered most questions honestly, even though it clearly was hard for him.
@@crazymonkeyVII it's not hard at all, most of these preachers don't believe what they preach and are in it for the money, all you need to do is do a little study into Christianity and you'll soon find out it's nonsense,
@petermeichan3160 I've been a militant atheïst since I was 10, you don't have to convince me ;). But I don't think you're right about this. Yes, there are definitely preachers and pastors that don't believe what they preach, but it isn't all of them. And when they fall from their faith, they have no obvious means to switch careers. Dan Barker, a former evangelical preacher, even created a charity at some point to help preachers that had just like him fallen from faith but didn't know how to switch careers. We're talking about predominantly very dedicated people to whom it had never occurred, or even seemed a remote possibility that their beliefs could be wrong. These people have never learned another trade and have only learned how to tell their fairy tale. How are they supposed to make money?
I --don't-- think that condemning people for being deceived and indoctrinated is wrong and not helpful to anybody. It is one of the main reasons why the Christian/Muslim concept of hell is so atrocious (even though it's fictitious)
I think, the problem with Eugene, is that nobody has ever asked him the right questions in his life, but he's surprisingly honest for a pastor.
He doesn’t get questioned ever, because he is the pastor. He most likely had only ever been asked any of these questions by himself.
This was powerful. He was considering things....bravo to you guys for walking him down that path and showing him his blind spots. Gave me goose bumps.
The older your are the harder it is to leave religion
Why???
dean r they invested more time and more experience to spirituality so it's harder to give it up
I understand that but if people know in their heart what they believe isn't true, why keep the lie going, I realised religion was rubbished when I was about 13, and I was brought up a Catholic, guess it was easy for me the ditch the bullshit then for other people being in cults, I told my father when I was 13 no more church, and if he didn't like it too bad, I couldn't have my heart in something I knew was rubbish and didn't make any sense.
dean r i absolutely agree, it's logical to give it up, but mostly people don't care about logic or they are so brainwashed thay the will be afraid of hell, you can't really understand it if you don't feel it
religion is so damaging to who we are, the sooner its put in a museum the better we all will be
I really appreciate how Jamie and Eric stay calm and exceedingly polite throughout. They show a lot of patience, which I think goes a long way in helping guide people towards critical thinking.
I admire that he's even willing to have the convo at his age; my grandmother ain't having it.
I gave my dad 3 hours of doubts against god's existence, and he literally answered "well, I CHOOSE to believe". His emphasis, not mine.
New viewer here, and I just wanted to say how much I appreciate your gentle approach to debating this topic. As someone who left my faith earlier this year and lost my entire friend group and community (who were the only family I had), watching/listening to podcasts like yours and The Atheist experience has given me reassurance that there is a community of like-minded people out there, and you have touched on so many things that I've struggled with since my conversion to Christianity 18 years ago. Thank you so much for everything that you two do.
Brittany P I can relate, as I came out as atheist 2-3 years ago. Just remember it's a process. Even a struggle at times, especially in the beginning. But no more of a struggle than it was for us to try to convince ourselves to believe in fairytales. Your family will most likely come to accept your stance. Regardless, don't be afraid to go it alone for a while. You will continue to learn and grow that way. Stay brave!
My story is similar to yours. You are not alone! Best wishes 🌷
I read and emphasized with your comment on essentially how compassionate they were with the caller. Matt and the young man on the left had one of the most wonderful calls ... may I recommend finding the CZcams "How Can Anyone Be An Atheist? | Manda - Lynchburg, VA | Atheist Experience 22.09" I am newly freed at 54, "Just keep swimming"
That is so sad. 😥 i will be your friend.
Yes, this show in general has a more gentle approach to thiests than the athesit experience. Both shows are unique in their own ways. I just feel that this show is better for beginner level skeptics or people who are honestly clueless.
He said he got his entire church to watch the show he says 😂😂😂🤣🤣
Oh wow, he will lose his flock! Lol
That moment when a lifetime of unquestioned belief begins to crumble before your eyes....Eugene sounds like a good and honest man.
“Plus you exist” that was the most snarky and funny remark I’ve ever heard Jamie make 😂😂😂
take a shot every time the guy says "well"
I'd take a shot every time he says 'spirit' or 'holy spirit'.
While I think that’s funny as fuck, that is an appropriate response when being asked to examine your long held beliefs, it’s not an easy task and one that not everyone is up to.
Great comment! I find myself counting the "wells". I cant stop!
IM diez id DRUNGK fjze dhsi
Call me an ambulance
Jesus sacrificed himself? Really? That's like me writing a $10,000 check to a charity, stopping payment on it a few days later, and then telling people that I "sacrificed 10k to charity"
It's not a "sacrifice" if you take it right back.
That's not even mentioning that the charity you wrote the check to, was owned, and operated by you, and you claimed you sacrificed your only ten thousand dollars to you, so that you could help the world do better!
@@Thoron_of_Neto It brings into question what they mean by a sacrifice?
Excellent analogy.
And getting 1 trillions € for that and a kingdom and became president of the world and have billions people worshing you and send to the goulag anyone that disagree with you ans so much more. The sweetest deal ever.
Very solid arguement.
" I haven't read the book of Eric" Eric replies "it's a really good book".
Epic 😂! Where can I get a copy
Pray to Eric that he reveals his word to you. That and a small shipping and handling fee should work.
Eugene is the nicest, the most intelligent man they have had on the show. He does not tend to abuse or attack anyone with his beliefs and religious views. Well at least what I have seen here. What he chooses to believe for whatever reason, thats a different topic. But also when they speak and point out some critical moments, he listens and at least tries to analyse, understand. I can only have a respect for this man.
never the less his thoroughly ingrained cognitive dissonance have seen to it that he never once made a straight observation regarding the subject. he was verbally skillfull.
@@robb3210 absolutely. Its just surprising that he is not aggressive unlike others. I was pleasantly surprised
He seems nice, but smartest? No.
@@nookymonster1 in comparison with all other guys that have been calling here? From what ive seen they are all either mental or just dumb :/ idk maybe there are episodes i have not seen
Jesus is the truth .
It's a bad sign when you face palm on a call before the two minute mark.
Just said that OUT LOUD - pretty scary it's so soon in the call....
Eric: 3,16
And lo, Jamie was on the same page as his brethren, and accepted the proffered bro-fist without looking.
And the last person I would leave my kids with would be a priest or a pastor.
OMG... The hesitation he had when asked if he'd disown his child.
that poor guy on the left just facepalmed immediately at the alleged contradictions... oh boy he knew where this was going
I feel bad for this man. He spent his entire life believing in a god and the holy spirit and such, and he's without a doubt questioning it NOW. He's calling to convince himself.
Right. No need to strip the elderly of their belief. Let them die in peace and comfort.
Robot Bjorn having been on both side of this coin. I would be angry if someone didn’t think I could handle the truth. I was a Christian for 3/4 if my life. I’m 40 now and the last 10 years of godlessness has been better than the other 3/4 combined. The truth is worth discomfort.
Robot Bjorn
He is looking for truth, he just doesn't realize it yet.
Itʻs his entire self-concept. Heʻs so happy with himself, going in to his man cave, wifey brings him tea, he prays and is filled with the spirit, heʻs feeling all special, blah, blah, blah...meanwhile his wife is doing all the emotional and physical work of the family and his kids are counting the days until they can leave home.
Yeah there was a point near the end where you can really hear his doubt
Wow, this was one of few calls I've heard on any of the shows where a religious person was rational and honest. Well done!
You all did great working with this pastor. Thoughtful and patient.
4:05 "Where's my holy book?" It was as if on cue! Made me laugh so hard!
I literally dropped my coffee laughing
Jamie and Eric,
Gents, this was one of your best episodes ever! Amazing work!
I hope you’ll watch this clip again to see all the great things you did that made this one so effective:
- finding relatable comparisons (babysitter example was perfect for his life stage)
- showing several methodologies (logic, contradictions, morality, personal emotional needs) and pursuing the ones that resonated most with him on an emotional level, as well as an intellectual level
- respecting his intelligence
- super-dooper polite
- staying focused, not getting sidetracked, holding him to task with your questions
- complimenting and praising to validate and reward his genuine efforts to connect and share honestly
- agreeing with him when it made sense to do so
- providing first-hand accounts of the pain you’ve seen that was caused by religion
This episode achieved something rare and very profound:
At 22:21, the caller said “I never thought of this”
That was a BREAKTHROUGH. Please watch the minute leading up to it to see what you said that brought him to that fundamental realization. You reached him!
His realization was even more rewarding to watch, because in previous calls he was full-on warring against you, “cast the pearls before the swine”. He went from hating you and trying to “rescue you” to realizing that you had information to offer that could be of benefit to him. He thought new ideas, and was intrigued by it. His journey to watch has been fascinating.
That may have been his first moment of doubt, ever. That’s something worth taking stock of, and studying what you did specifically to help him get there, so that you can replicate and share with future callers.
I can’t wait for when he calls back again!
I, daily, feel that the "spirit" is coming OUT of me.
And what a RELIEF it is.
It really puts you in a good mood, all day.
Wow..an older Pastor who you can hear in his voice, the cogs start to turn to the thoughts of reason and critical thinking. Well done guys...
"Magic is the dark arts!" I just choked my taco i love eugene
Please use punctuation.
right about the 22 minute mark, you can almost hear the gears starting to line up for Eugene
"I never thought of that before"
Yup!
It takes an honest person to admit they hadn't thought of something before when the other makes a point. Instead of scrambling for an excuse or side stepping the shit out of the question "if you have evidence, do you need faith?", he paused and answered honestly. I can appreciate that, and hopefully he thinks about it some more. Good on Eugene.
I really respect these guys with the way they maintain a calm and rational tone throughout and really allow the logical situation to unfold. I am learning a lot, thank you.
This was a very touching discussion. Science bless Eugene, and thank you both for being so respectful yet also amazingly powerful & concise.
This call was handled perfectly. Welldone!
One of my favourite calls of the show! Honest, respectful..... human
The odds are that as soon as Eugene put the phone down he returned to the comfort of his god and forgot all about reason
It's like a computer virus... just as you thought you've deleted it, it rears its ugly head once again and continues to copy itself and spread.
Great vid you guys. I liked Eugene. I think his wheels are turning ;) This was a lovely video. Thank you.
I felt the firmament cracking for him at 20:00. I bet he's a big ole atheist now (2/2020) oh at 22:00 it's All Over. "If you have evidence, why would you need faith?" Bravo Eric
@@richiejohnson Yes, Bravo, Eric. He did not want to answer that, possibly not even think it, but you drew an answer from him.
most beautiful sound i ever heard , a christian cornered , 21:56 minutes
gotta turn up the headphones for THAT one !!!
absolutely beautiful !
Can we get a pdf version of The Book of Eric?
You have to believe in it first or it won't come through in the right format.
No.
I almost feel bad for the old guy, but you guys did well asking questions to stir thoughts that will be planted seeds of doubt for viewers watching. This guy will most likely stay in his belief and if he was smart he will not call again. I admire his courage to call. Most Christians ignore posts, don't call into atheist shows, etc. Keep up the good work. Love this show.
This had me rolling!🤣 I love how patient you guys were with him. Good job 👍
This is why I love living here in Scandinavia, we are basically an atheist people, even if our countries are officially christian. Basically 90% of us are atheist even if not everyone will officially ackowledge it. Not only that, but the theists are actually considered the wierdos here.
I love my country :D
Kenji87 I need to move there! I wonder if I would have to redo my residency in order to practice medicine. That is about the only thing keeping me in the US now.
Please put in a good word for me. My ancestors were FINISH i want to go home. These Americans are nuts thrown out of England.
Thank you, Eric and Jamie, for doing what you do. I'm a new fan and I appreciate you greatly.
I’m fascinated by the pastor’s techniques, most likely learned then honed over time: use of religious semantics, appeals to emotion, long and personal stories, a well-practiced monotone slow drone… it’s hypnotic and in now way a reason to believe in his magical worldview.
WOW what beautiful human beings. The Best episode i have heard so far.
New drinking game, take a shot every time he says "well"
New drinking game, take a shot every time one of the hosts says "cool".
New drinking game, take a shot every time someone steals someone else's comment and pretends it's their own in the CZcams comment section.
I would be FUCKED up within the first minutes of this video!! Haha
Reagan vs Eugene...
I REALLY like these guys. Incredibly professional, well spoken, respectful, and intelligent. This is what I want to see discourse between atheist and theist to be like. Excellent work I really enjoyed the video
This was masterfully handled, guys. Bravo! You found consensus. And you did great. I am sure Eugene appreciates your civility.
You guys are doing a great job, keep it up!
Pastor Eugene, if you are by any chance reading this, as a fellow human from across the globe I'd like to thank you for the intellectual honesty you've shown.
I'm convinced it's among the most important characteristics to develop in the continuous figurative road to becoming a better person.
I see atheism merely as the label for a consequence of looking critically and unbiasedly at what surrounds us. When we do so with intellectual honesty, we are able to say "I don't know" fearlessly, because that's what keeps us looking to see the where the worldly, demonstrable, reliable information leads us.
And we all want to make informed choices, I think, because most of the time we hurt someone else is because we're convinced of something that's wrong, shortly put.
Looking forward to hearing your next conversation! Have a good week.
I loved this call...If only more people would act this way
While my wife typically brought me tea. Nuff said.
YUP!
That's the most honest pastor I have ever heard!
His critical thinking is alive too.
Talking to this pastor must be what it’s like having a conversation with an ent.
Did you mean an ant?
If not could you explain what on ent is?
George Foreman - an Ent (should have been capitalised) is a fictional creature from Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings; basically a walking tree that talks very, very slowly, and is of the opinion that if anything is worth saying at all, it may take a long, long time to say it.
Steve James
Thanks for the explanation. Not Bering a fan of lord of the rings I never would have picked up on that.
Now that I have the explanation I can totally agree with your first comment.
Totally off topic, but -- Jamie's voice is so relaxing 😌 if he started an asmr channel, I would subscribe right away
I just wish he was allowed to talk more instead of being constantly cut off by his partner.
I want this guy to go to IRS with me when they question my tax returns.
Loved this. His voice takes me back to the elders I grew up around and enjoyed
I think it's good that this pastor was honest here.
Gives me hope in humanity.
When I want a good laugh, I watch videos of delusional believers calling into an atheist show ...works every time 😂🤣😂🤣
I thought it kills our brain cells??
RonLarhz
Yes I agree religious myths definitely kill brain cells....
Yes sir! have a bad day? Watch one of these or a debate and I'm not in a bad mood anymore.
I always tuned in when my blood pressure was too low! Now I’m on high BP medication!!! 🙄
Danny Spitzer----3 ways to get a good laugh.....1)say to a christian...that the buybull wasn't originally printed in english......2)tell christians that homosexuality has been around longer then christianity...3)tell christians that over 31 million people died from starvation even after praying for them.............christians heads might just explode.......
I don’t know if it has something to do with his experience as a pastor but the way he talks just makes my eyes roll into the back of my head.
This is the best Talk Heathen I've seen yet! I don't know how I've missed it before. I guess I need to watch it more! Everything I've seen from Austin Texas is great!
“Would you ever disown your children?”
Pause
Pastor: “ ... I’m thinking. Hold on please. Do you mean both of them?”
Jamie's body language is so honest, makes me laugh, especially the facepalms.
This reads like an SNL sketch, and the caller would be played perfectly by Will Ferrell.
What I love about this show is, is that you don't unnecessarily provoke people and yet you get your points across.
This is one finesse thing about this show. Other shows could learn that aspect.
The "Book of Eric" gets me everytime....haha....love it.
Fantastic segment!
The Book of Eric and Spiderman are epistemological weapons that should be wielded more often.
Bravo.
There was a pause when you asked him about casting out his children (or maybe when you said that happens) That pause was the sound of a father feeling enormous pain on someone's behalf. If only we could have all the believers experience this much empathy. I bet Eugene would offer to house any of those rejected children with no conditions attached, like mandatory bible study or something like that.
The problem is that there was a pause..............
That he would even have to think about it shows just how fucked up he and his fairy tail belief system is.
rentiap
Sadly I have to agree with you.
rentiap I think the answer to the question was obvious and came to him immediately, and as a result, the pause was probably just from the shock of some things finally starting to fall into place.
damn !!! well done boys!! I love the long pause when you asked " if there is evidence for something do you need faith?"
Out of all the clips I've seen, this is most definitely the best. The debate was handled calmly and respectfully by both sides, with neither side just saying "I'm right, you're wrong.", and just hanging up.
My coworker preceded to tell me that morality comes from Christianity and it's crazy how other people and religions sacrifice people and kill babies, throw them in fire, etc... I said well why is that not ok with other people and religions but your god drowned many children and actively threatens us to burn in fire for eternity and that's ok? (since he believes life is eternal) and his response was "Well we're not god so we can't understand how he works and those babies are in heaven." I told him that's a clear cop out to keep from holding your God accountable for doing the very thing you despise in regard to other religions/gods and if God knew the children in the flood were innocent why kill them? It's ridiculous.
J Allen it's called suspension of disbelief
I'm an atheist and there is an easy answer to this from the Christian perspective. Due to the fall, we are all born with a sinful nature. Therefore, even children and infants are not sinless/innocent and being killed in the flood is not an issue in the slightest.
GeneralZod99 thanks for the tip. And the Christian response is archaic bull shit so I think we can ignore it
It makes me sad when I hear such a caring person defend the undefendable. I’m glad that he has higher standards than his god.
Life long Non-Theist. My father-in-law’s name is Eugene. We live in WA State just north of OR. My wife and I were disowned by her parents because we (primarily her because I wasn’t even asked) refused to join their Church with our children. In fact; their Church refused to allow us to see him in his last days when he died (he had degenerative brain condition where he began to not even know who he was, and he lived with another daughter who was in the Church). We were also barred from the memorial services as well. My wife’s Mother is still disowning us. To hear this other Eugene pause and say “No, I love my children” was so profound to me. I literally had to collect myself for a moment before continuing to listen. I have no idea if he will even see this but I applaud his good nature. It is in spite of, not because of his religion. But I am content enough that is his nature. Loved this video.
And this is why I love this show!
I think a lot of so-called pastors and theologians long ago ceased to believe what they preach. The problem is, that's been their life, and they have no easy way to escape - given the personal penalties (loss of friends, family, reputation) and financial penalties - what the hell else do they do? - and can they continue to be where they are: and how they live?? It's difficult.
Here is an organization that supports that very issue.
clergyproject.org/
A perfect example (the Pastor) of a person so completely invested in this belief that he would be totally unable to entertain even the possibility that he could be wrong.
What a great call with a Eugene. He may yet make his way to the real light. The light of reason and logic. Keep the conversation going guys. You’re providing a great service to us all.
Jesus is the truth and he is alive today .
Darwin is a liar and he and his psuedo science lies are dead ..
You could hear the gears grinding in his brain as he tried to defend his position against logic
NY Times Aug. 14, 2018
Bishops and other leaders of the Roman Catholic Church in Pennsylvania covered up child sexual abuse by more than 300 priests over a period of 70 years, persuading victims not to report the abuse and law enforcement not to investigate it, according to a searing report issued by a grand jury on Tuesday.
The report, which covered six of the state’s eight Catholic dioceses and found more than 1,000 identifiable victims, is the broadest examination yet by a government agency in the United States of child sexual abuse in the Catholic Church. The report said there are likely thousands more victims whose records were lost or who were too afraid to come forward.
It catalogs horrific instances of abuse: a priest who raped a young girl in the hospital after she had her tonsils out; a victim tied up and whipped with leather straps by a priest; and another priest who was allowed to stay in ministry after impregnating a young girl and arranging for her to have an abortion.
The sexual abuse scandal has shaken the Catholic Church for more than 15 years, ever since explosive allegations emerged out of Boston in 2002. But even after paying billions of dollars in settlements and adding new prevention programs, the church has been dogged by a scandal that is now reaching its highest ranks. The Pennsylvania report comes soon after the resignation of Cardinal Theodore E. McCarrick, the former archbishop of Washington, who is accused of sexually abusing young priests and seminarians, as well as minors.
“Despite some institutional reform, individual leaders of the church have largely escaped public accountability,” the grand jury wrote. “Priests were raping little boys and girls, and the men of God who were responsible for them not only did nothing; they hid it all. For decades.”
The report is unlikely to lead to new criminal charges or civil lawsuits under the current law because the statute of limitations has expired. Only two of the cases in the report so far have led to criminal charges. End of article.
While religious people roleplay about magic, superstition and invisible Jewish zombie overlords, their churches keep molesting children and accumulating material wealth.
If you are a xtian, you are responsible for supporting your parasitic priests and your evil church. Civil society isn't pleased to see you. You superstitions are not needed and your invisible friends are false and ridiculous. You are obtuse, arrogant, ignorant and should be ashamed to be a facilitator for those who hurt children.
Religion is disgusting and dangerous. STOP NOW.
Yep
Burn the church down
God will burn all the churches very soon.
Very thoughtful statement! Thank you for the time you put into composing it.
There are huge contradictions in the Bible. And they’re not “ so called “ contradictions.
In the most non-hateful way, I loved this. I would listen to the three of you talk for an hour every week about real life.
What a wonderful way to deal with this caller. Excellent job. Great show sirs :)