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KOTOR: Flurry vs Power Attack - A Mathematical Analysis

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  • čas přidán 9. 05. 2020
  • -- HUGE thanks to my newest channel member - cmdrshprd - Meatbag
    Today we answer the age old question, flurry versus power attack, is one definitively better?
    Excel Workbook: 1drv.ms/x/s!Auoy_RpjQwSCisVNH...
    Program: www.codebrewer.de/KotORCalc/
    I've started a Discord server, feel free to join :) / discord

Komentáře • 101

  • @ariesstorm9577
    @ariesstorm9577 Před 3 lety +175

    An intelligent man: “here’s a mathematical breakdown of power attack vs flurry”
    Me, a simple man: “flurry, because it looks cool.”

    • @GamingYourOwnWay
      @GamingYourOwnWay  Před 3 lety +28

      At the end of the day, does it matter if you're kicking ass if you don't look good while doing it? Flurry it all the way if you like how it looks! :)

    • @Soleilune1995
      @Soleilune1995 Před 2 lety +27

      @@GamingYourOwnWay The longer it takes to destroy your enemies, the longer you get to watch them suffer. **dark side points earned**

    • @GamingYourOwnWay
      @GamingYourOwnWay  Před 2 lety +24

      *Influence Gained: HK-47*

  • @mess00747
    @mess00747 Před 4 lety +51

    From the little of us still playing it or playing it for the first time(me) your videos are the most detailed and well produced I have seen on this platform. Never hoped someone could give enough damn but during my playthrough when I be like "Ahh, that's what lonegunmen meant", it does put a smile on my face. Please keep it up ❤️
    P.S. A detailed guide on Feats(Does it hit? Is it good?) would be awesome.

    • @GamingYourOwnWay
      @GamingYourOwnWay  Před 4 lety +7

      Awesome, I'm so glad that you find them helpful! :) And I'll look into that, I'll see what I can come up with!

  • @skulpturostone4621
    @skulpturostone4621 Před rokem +14

    Actually, it is written in descriptions of this skills, which one to use, depending on a situation. One is for quicker fights with easy opponent. So your character deals one power atack and goes to the next target.
    Flurry is made for another situations. Its animation is longer. But it gives an additional chance to strike, so it helps in longer fights to deal more DPS and pressure an opponent.

  • @Necronoxicon261
    @Necronoxicon261 Před 4 lety +78

    I just think Flurry looks cooler lol. Sweet video, thanks 👍

    • @GamingYourOwnWay
      @GamingYourOwnWay  Před 4 lety +34

      I mean, you're not wrong. I now see a problem with my formula, didn't include a coolness factor....

    • @timonsolus
      @timonsolus Před 3 lety +10

      Power Attack looks cool, but only for Zaalbar. (He doesn’t jump into the air and spin). But Zaalbar is more fun with Critical Strike (after leaving Taris) because of his massive strength.
      If Master Vandar (the Yoda sized Jedi Master on Dantooine) was in a fight, Power Attack would look very cool for him. Better than attacking Malak’s ankles, lol.

    • @slickadooie
      @slickadooie Před rokem +1

      Yeah I have to agree up until now that I’m a streamer and want to play this technically for fun I always use flurry 🤣. Love the videos though

    • @TheVeriOra
      @TheVeriOra Před měsícem

      *holding flurrito in palm* "I just think it's neat."

  • @darksungwyndolin7888
    @darksungwyndolin7888 Před 3 lety +38

    Interesting, I know for sure that the basic attack is actually better than the level 1/2 versions of Flurry because the penalties are too severe

    • @GamingYourOwnWay
      @GamingYourOwnWay  Před 3 lety +9

      100% agree

    • @asillariya601
      @asillariya601 Před 2 lety

      what do penalties mean? Dos it mean how high of a chance you have of landing your hit?

    • @asillariya601
      @asillariya601 Před 2 lety

      ​@@GamingYourOwnWay is that what it means?

    • @christianphillips1239
      @christianphillips1239 Před 2 lety

      If you look at flurry it gives you -3 defense for a time after the attack.

  • @dseveno8254
    @dseveno8254 Před 3 lety +22

    High levels of strength can make double-bladed sabers with master flurry (with master speed active) overtake master power attack (with master speed active). I can't think of a scenario where a fully levelled saber combatant wouldn't have master speed active all of the time.

    • @rsaettone
      @rsaettone Před 3 měsíci

      I always use Master Speed and Master Flurry. It wrecks.

  • @jamesgaiser8509
    @jamesgaiser8509 Před 3 lety +7

    Dude I was looking for this stuff this time last year! Thank you so much for this content!

  • @Spumoon
    @Spumoon Před rokem +4

    Power Attack? Flurry? Nay, equip two Blast Pistols and Force Speed + Rapid Shot!

  • @emanueltwr
    @emanueltwr Před 4 lety +18

    Great video and it is good to still see KOTOR videos active and at the same time I have not seen a discussion on this particular mechanics. Keep up the good work!

  • @peterle8482
    @peterle8482 Před 3 lety +3

    I haven't played the game since I was little but just recently got back into the game loving the videos thanks man they're tons of help :D

  • @Texansfan254Jeff
    @Texansfan254Jeff Před 2 lety +1

    Impressive way of showing most if not all the variables involved with each attack feat. Each one has their own merit. I guess it comes down to how you're building your characters.

  • @MrNtlman
    @MrNtlman Před 2 lety +8

    Both have their purpose and uses, flurry is almost useless in the beginning game though. Not only does flurry has a huge debuff to your defense at the first tier (-4 in both games) the negative to hit is also pretty bad (also -4), whereas with power attack it's a straight -3 for all three tiers. However, master flurry is really good, in the first game it's a -1 to both defense and attack and no negative in 2, just an extra attack. If you want to go flurry, never use the first tier of flurry always go normal attack (or power attack if playing kotor2). I've found that I miss most attacks with first tier of flurry but, if you have a 4 or higher to hit bonus at the start, PA is almost always better early game. T2 or 3 flurry will be good when you get them. (also flurry animation is better than power attack) Also also... once you get to end game the -3 to hit is pretty negligible (even after Tarris/Telos it's pretty negligible).
    TL;DR: flurry sucks early game, power attack doesn't, after first planet the negatives don't really effect combat much.

  • @Chefvonbreezy
    @Chefvonbreezy Před 4 lety +10

    If you make your light sabers right I feel that especially in kotor 2 if you max out flurry you tend to have a higher chance to get some of the effects such as stun or massive criticals so in face sion or treya I found it was more efficient

  • @N_Moli
    @N_Moli Před 2 lety +5

    I choose power attack due to DBZA. "We just need to hit them really, really hard".

  • @xxXTwiTchyMcGeeXxx
    @xxXTwiTchyMcGeeXxx Před rokem +2

    Star Wars?
    Kotor??
    MATH???
    Sweet.

  • @TheTdroid
    @TheTdroid Před 2 lety +2

    As a general rule, I prefer Flurry. It feels less dependent on Master Speed always being up, which is a lvl 15 ability, and scaled very directly with your build and equipment. Seeing as a common lightsaber starts at 2d8 damage, that extra attack can get out of hand pretty quickly once you have Master Flurry for the minimal penalty. And the more you beef up your attacks, the better it is.

  • @OffBrandCourier
    @OffBrandCourier Před 2 měsíci +1

    2024 still playing these games

  • @blakenielson6775
    @blakenielson6775 Před rokem

    I think you're a pretty chill guy, and I found many of the kotor vids interesting. Definitely gonna check out some other non kotor related vids. Really nice to give the spreadsheet. Hope you are well 🧡

  • @gregtuff4020
    @gregtuff4020 Před 2 lety

    My bad at math opinion is that flurry is best because it requires the least investment to get good. You'll do just as much damage only investing one point. Mastering it A) lowers it's penalties and B) looks pretty cool.

  • @marklee1194
    @marklee1194 Před 2 lety

    In KOTOR II, I always start with Flurry, then level up to Master Flurry with has no defense penalties. This is because early on, your character's defense is lower and I want to avoid penalties of any kind (be it attack modifiers, defense, etc...) for my character and companions. However, later in the game, I mix things up using Flurry and either Power Attack and/or Critical Strike. Normally, what I would do is have one character use Flurry, another use Power Attack/Critical Strike and another use any attack mode (with different lightsaber forms). By doing so, you have a versatile party capable of defeating enemies in different ways.
    That being said, the combat animation for Flurry takes longer to complete, so using Power Attack or Critical Strike would be more efficient for eliminating weaker opponents in one hit.

  • @starmada105
    @starmada105 Před 3 lety +7

    Sad critical attack noises.

  • @rsaettone
    @rsaettone Před 3 měsíci

    I built a specialized Guardian, double saber build. Even on higher difficulty, with Master Speed and Master Flurry, I one shotted Malak repeatedly.

  • @Evilducttapeman
    @Evilducttapeman Před rokem

    When I was kid all used was power attack throughout both games. Never failed me.

  • @Choklar_
    @Choklar_ Před 4 lety +4

    Awesome video! Yeah, you gotta factor in the cool factor of what looks better, haha. :D

    • @GamingYourOwnWay
      @GamingYourOwnWay  Před 4 lety +1

      Bro.... you're right, I didn't consider that... but with respect to how many different variables does coolness change?! I never took PDE's D: haha glad you liked it man :)

    • @Choklar_
      @Choklar_ Před 4 lety

      @@GamingYourOwnWay Yeah, really good stuff. I watched all of your KotOR videos now. Really good information. subbed fo sho!

  • @mi.tsiklauri
    @mi.tsiklauri Před 4 lety

    nice video!

  • @smile-tl9in
    @smile-tl9in Před rokem

    Feats like flurry who add more attacks are less overall impactful the more attacks you already have. For exemple if you already have 1 attack, adding another is a +100% to the number of attacks. If you already have 2 and you add one it's +50 % and so on. So if you're using master speed and Juyo, power attack is actually stronger

  • @Mrfatpepper
    @Mrfatpepper Před 3 lety

    I fucking love your channel

  • @stevengrant4117
    @stevengrant4117 Před 3 lety +5

    I love guardian with master speed master valor and master flurry

    • @stevengrant4117
      @stevengrant4117 Před 3 lety +4

      Also duel weild light sabers

    • @knightsotl796
      @knightsotl796 Před 3 lety +3

      @@stevengrant4117 You spoke my language
      It is unbelievably OP

  • @mattsauvageau8722
    @mattsauvageau8722 Před rokem

    Flurry wins for me cuz it comes packaged with Implant 1 with Scout, so it starts with a high amount of meta relevant feats - even left at rank 1 the penalties are easily compensated for with a proper build

  • @akale2620
    @akale2620 Před 6 měsíci

    Ahh yes maths, thats what I want in my video games, maths.
    Also me

  • @quickpawmaud
    @quickpawmaud Před 2 lety +1

    I think there is a straight forward answer. You said power attack is better early and that late game they are even so power attack is generally better.

  • @gnarlywagner8171
    @gnarlywagner8171 Před 2 lety +1

    Flurry with knight speed is savage if you can actually hit your opponent

  • @BlueGuise9
    @BlueGuise9 Před 3 lety +3

    But what about Critical strike?
    Brilliant video by the way!

    • @GamingYourOwnWay
      @GamingYourOwnWay  Před 3 lety +2

      If I remember correctly critical strike was worse than both of the other two in KOTOR 1 (I might be remembering incorrectly, I'd have to check). It may be worth investigating in KOTOR 2 though with the introduction of higher critical damage multipliers.

    • @timonsolus
      @timonsolus Před 3 lety +2

      Critical Strike is fun, but unreliable. It can cause absolutely massive damage with the right rolls, but those rolls can be widely spaced out. It also reduces your armour class by 5, so the enemy will be hitting you more often.
      Not recommended except for a Soldier Guardian with extremely high Strength and Constitution and maxed out Toughness (like Zaalbar).

    • @BlueGuise9
      @BlueGuise9 Před 3 lety

      @@timonsolus One other good thing I recently learned about critical strike, is there is no attack penalty. I hadn't realised that Flurry reduces attack as well as defence.
      But I think I agree! The best thing about critical strike is it's chance to stun. So high strength is essential!

  • @philpeters3689
    @philpeters3689 Před 2 lety

    Power attack+ jedi speed is tooo goooood

  • @TheRaivoX
    @TheRaivoX Před 2 lety +1

    for me, the combat its easy, só i like to mix the combat skills jutst for fun and combat stylish

  • @peterharrell7305
    @peterharrell7305 Před rokem

    Flurry is better for sneak attack damage, too. Scoundrels that stun lock targets should use flurry.

  • @varasatoshi3961
    @varasatoshi3961 Před 2 lety

    I just like to go dual sabers, master speed and flurry man. Me attack many times haha

  • @morgangardner9516
    @morgangardner9516 Před 3 lety +1

    For me, it has only to do with chance to hit.

  • @supremecommander4311
    @supremecommander4311 Před 2 lety

    What about vs critical strike or does that attack not matter since it only makes it easier to land a critical threat not really boosting your dmg up front unlike the other two respectively

    • @GamingYourOwnWay
      @GamingYourOwnWay  Před 2 lety

      It's just not the one people usually debate over haha, it's absence from the video doesn't mean it's not worthwhile!

    • @elliotflores723
      @elliotflores723 Před 2 lety +3

      If you're running a Keen weapon with two-weapon fighting, then with Master TWF and two Keen melee weapons, each of your two attacks with MCS has a 50% chance (Threat Range: 11-20) of scoring a critical hit. Note that this is mostly just feasible in KOTOR 2 due to its upgrade mechanics being more robust than KOTOR 1.
      It's less that Critical Strike isn't a viable alternative, it's just that it's a more specialized option than either Flurry or Power Attack, since you will *always* get the extra attack/bonus damage, which makes it more useful as an all-rounder for any kind of build.

  • @Bubbles99718
    @Bubbles99718 Před 2 lety

    Flurry is simply the most fun

  • @aquariandawn4750
    @aquariandawn4750 Před rokem

    Ain't ya heard about the death from a thousand cuts?

  • @sbentsen2714
    @sbentsen2714 Před rokem

    I seem to miss the power attack fairly often, I prefer flurry

  • @-hondosolo4518
    @-hondosolo4518 Před rokem

    Been playing since the original xbox version. Getting back into it. QUESTION: how do I view the combat log information?

    • @GamingYourOwnWay
      @GamingYourOwnWay  Před rokem +1

      While in game, open the menu, go to the messages tab (fourth from the right), then choose the "Show Feedback" option.

    • @-hondosolo4518
      @-hondosolo4518 Před rokem

      thx a million. I just wasn't seeing it. I've played through well over 10 times; Ive always seen the game as an efficiency challenge but never dove deep into that...

  • @troywallace7011
    @troywallace7011 Před 2 lety

    What about Critical Strike? Awesome vid btw :)

    • @GamingYourOwnWay
      @GamingYourOwnWay  Před 2 lety

      It's just not usually the one people argue about haha, critical strike is also hella good.

  • @cosinguspalpatine4449
    @cosinguspalpatine4449 Před rokem +1

    we all know it’s all about that critical strike

    • @GamingYourOwnWay
      @GamingYourOwnWay  Před rokem +1

      Gotta love a good critical strike.

    • @cosinguspalpatine4449
      @cosinguspalpatine4449 Před rokem

      @@GamingYourOwnWay he dude I would really love your take on auto level up vs manual level up. Like I find myself almost never using the recommended feats skills or attributes

  • @kingbooty6969
    @kingbooty6969 Před rokem

    So does Critical Hit suck?

    • @GamingYourOwnWay
      @GamingYourOwnWay  Před rokem +2

      It does not, it's just not as widely used, people usually argue about flurry vs power attack and I'd already done a lot of math on two attacks, I got tired lol

  • @karakondzula1388
    @karakondzula1388 Před rokem

    The most honest answer is, if you play guardian or Marauder in kotor 2, power attack is superior, not by much tho. Any other class with lower attack in melee you are far better with flurry. In Kotor 2 power attack is even better because it’s possible to invest more into critical range.

    • @JohnMelon
      @JohnMelon Před rokem

      ''My most honest opinion is'' ... there, I fixed it for you.

  • @Chunkysdead94
    @Chunkysdead94 Před rokem

    I’ve always seen flurry as the the reliable, when in doubt while power attack was useful if you have high strength or keen.

  • @SirBrass
    @SirBrass Před rokem

    I always liked flurry simply because at master level it had only a -1 to hit, whereas power attack ALWAYS has the same -3 to hit regardless of level. That seems balanced to me.
    That, and my greatest regret in college was choosing Linear Algebra for my math elective (required for my EE Major) instead of Prob & Stat or Complex Variables. I should probably see if I can audit a prob & stat course at a local CC. Not just for gaming, but it's highly useful.

    • @GamingYourOwnWay
      @GamingYourOwnWay  Před rokem +1

      You can’t ever know enough about vector spaces, don’t regret linear algebra! Stats is great for life though, I recommend you check out the book How Not to be Wrong by Jordan Ellenberg if you want a fun read about practical math 🙂

    • @SirBrass
      @SirBrass Před rokem

      @@GamingYourOwnWay I'll have to do that. I don't like math for math's sake, but as a tool (which means I like to simplify simplify simplify, so I like algebra and know calculus in order to get to the algebra within a defined set of parameters), which is why I'm an electrical and systems engineer and not a mathematician 😛.

  • @delawersagor1736
    @delawersagor1736 Před 2 lety

    Flurry + Master Speed all the way.

  • @tlotpwist3417
    @tlotpwist3417 Před 3 lety +6

    Got the easiest fight i ever had against malak just with crit strike, as a scoundrel guardian. And without the sneak extra damage since you're always in combat.
    Force Speed must make any attack power great

    • @ChristianEater91
      @ChristianEater91 Před 3 lety +1

      I know that you posted this 4 months ago, but that part where you said sneak attack isn't applicable because you're always in combat... any attack that the defender can't respond to is a sneak attack. If you choke Malik, your attacks will be sneak attacks. Basically if a target is incapacitated, or fighting another target, you will get a sneak attack

    • @tlotpwist3417
      @tlotpwist3417 Před 3 lety +1

      @@ChristianEater91 from what i remember, since i played scoundrel guardian i didnt have much force powers on the offensive side, so no choke

    • @wunderfuls
      @wunderfuls Před 2 lety

      @@tlotpwist3417 also attacking from behind a target is considered a sneak attack.

  • @nip3004
    @nip3004 Před 2 lety

    Does flurry not give more chances for on hit effects like poison or stun?

    • @marklee1194
      @marklee1194 Před rokem

      Generally no. Flurry grants you an extra attack from which one of them could potenially be a critical hit. Critical Strike potentially stuns your enemy and Power Attack potentially knocks them back.

    • @nip3004
      @nip3004 Před rokem

      @@marklee1194 so again... if it grants you an extra attack wouldn't that mean another chance for on you effects? Or are they prevented from triggering?

    • @marklee1194
      @marklee1194 Před rokem

      @@nip3004 That depends on the equipment for you main character and companions as well as any Force powers and immunities.

    • @GamingYourOwnWay
      @GamingYourOwnWay  Před rokem +3

      Scratch what I said, no, it does not grant an extra chance for more effects, just validated in game. So if you have a weapon that has a chance to inflict stun, you get one chance regardless of if you use flurry or master speed, the extra attacks to not give extra attempts to inflict status effects.

  • @jesusjuice7401
    @jesusjuice7401 Před 2 lety +1

    I use critical strike....

  • @bladestar2322
    @bladestar2322 Před 2 lety

    In KOTOR 1 Flurry is the best. But in KOTOR 2, after about level 9, there's a glitch and Flurry becomes crap, you just pivot on your hips swing one way then the other one time. After that you are better just trying for Critical Strike. I don't know why that happens all of a sudden in 2. But KOTOR 1, always go with Flurry. Zaalbar can take down the Rancors of the Forbidden Planet with a single Flurry. Note; I have Zaalbar at 30 strength using twin Bacca Blades! Zaalbar is a walking Vegematic!

  • @coppomusic
    @coppomusic Před 4 lety +1

    Nice info man

  • @OffBrandCourier
    @OffBrandCourier Před 2 měsíci

    2024 still playing these games