38 +P Snub-nose Ballistic Gel Shoot: 140 gr Xtreme Penetrator v 158 gr Rem HTP v 158 gr Buffalo Bore
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- čas přidán 25. 05. 2022
- 38 Special +P Snub-nose Ballistic Gel Test Shoot: 140 grain Xtreme Penetrator by Underwood vs 158 grain Remington High Terminal Performance vs 158 grain Buffalo Bore Lead Semi Wad Cutter Hollow Point
Previous chronograph tests:
Buffalo Bore 158 grain 38 +P LSWCHP:
• 357 Short: the quest t...
Results: five shot average of 1008 fps, or 357 foot pounds of energy (!!!)
Remington 158 grain HTPs and Underwood Xtreme Penetrators:
• Ruger LCR 38 Special +...
Results: five shot averages;
Remington HTPs - 822 fps, or 237 foot pounds of energy
Underwood Ext. Pen. - 867 fps, or 234 foot pounds of energy
Watch for bullet pull when shooting the +P 158 grain LSWCHPs from a lightweight revolver like the LCR. I have seen the bullets in the fourth and fifth chambers move forward enough to tie up the cylinder. When deciding on carry ammo for a light gun, it's a good idea to shoot two or three and then check the unfired cartridges left in the cylinder. If the bullets have walked out of the cases even a little bit, look for a different carry ammo. Incidentally, I am a big fan of the old FBI load, so not bagging on it, but it is something to be aware of.
I've been meaning to do a video of that ever since I got the calipers! I keep forgetting...
I fired 4 out of my 442 today at the range, and the 5th round had the bullet jump the crimp. I'm going to switch to the standard pressure version of this round or a different +P round.
I did fire the 5th round, and it cycled and shot fine though, but I don't't wanna risk it in a self-defense situation.
I wonder if this applies to .357 snub revolvers as well?
@@Saku19was it buffalo bore or underwood that jumped the crimp? Have you tested the standard version yet
@@TyroneLylesJr-vm5ot It was Underwood, haven't tested the standard pressure yet. I still have some other carry ammo I've been using
My Police Department had issued for off duty or back up revolvers the Remington 158 grain +P LSWCHP. It was tested and selected because of its ability to mushroom from a 1 7/8” S&W 640.
Mas Ayoob said he preferred the Remington load became it used a softer lead bullet.
He's not wrong. Ever.
Please keep up the snub nose content. I love your buffalo bore/underwood 38 tests, would love to see more of these
Ordered 200 rounds of the Remington HTP for my pair of Taurus 856s.
Thanks for the test.
My friend, my new purchase 856 is sittin at Sportsmans waitin for pick-up; in the mean time after much and considerable research, decided to solely use +p, range and defense_
Remington UMC Ammunition 38 Special +P 125 Grain JHP for range, the Remington Golden Saber Defense for carry. Also, the hefty 968 fps 329 mzl Norma Range & Training 158 Grain FMJ(non +p) for to practice expertise with aim recovery.
I question, with such a long time, huge diet of +p through that 856... if I should best exchange for the Taurus 605 .357, but i've been obsessing losing that sixth round.
What think ye, if you'cn say.
~ Thanks
@@onewayup5 I already used all this ammo. Did you get the 856 defender or the snub?
The 2"
@@cameronnorton5898Whoops, wrong account....
The snubby.
( Whoops, wrong acct.)....
That 2" snub.
I love your video of the classic 38. 642 daily carrier here. Thank you.
Thank you for the test! I love all of your comparisons. I actually love the Buffalo Bore ammo, although it is expensive.
Wow! Thank you for a great video
The Remington load is about the same as the old FBI load. As long as the bullet is cast relatively soft and the hollow point kept fairly large, this load performs very well in both a 2'' and 4'' barrel for both penetration and expansion. It's just an all-around good load that has been stopping bad guys for decades. The BB load ...In a 21-ounce S&W model 60 may be a very good option. I shoot a 357 mag 125 gr Critical Defense load as a carry load, and it is controllable for me so the BB load may also be a good one for a gun of this weight.
Give them a try if you have the coin. BB are expensive as heck, but actually perform better with a denim barrier in place (they don't come apart in the gel).
Awesome loads. Thanks
Buffalo bullets are awesome and I like copper and mostly hunt with copper in my rifles and handguns, enjoy your videos.
Nice test, sir. Remington HTP has been my carry round in my S&W Airweight for years. I saw nothing here to change my mind. Soft lead bullets are one of the huge advantages revolvers have over semi-autos. Shooting a harder frangible lead bullet like the Buffalo Bore -- or worse a monolithic copper round -- out of a snubby is giving up that advantage. The soft lead SWCHP was used extensively by police departments for decades when the .38 service revolver was standard issue. It has a proven track record and is still capable of one-shot stops in 200 lb male aggressors. All these Johnny-come-lately high-priced rounds are mostly marketing hype. The danger in them for me is that because they are more expensive and scarce, you're less likely to shoot them at the range, meaning you won't be comfortable with how it behaves in your gun in the event of an actual confrontation. HTP is cheap enough and easy enough to find that I shoot it regularly at the range, so I'm very familiar with its performance. That comfort level can mean the difference between winning and dying.
That HTP lswchp ammo is darn good stuff. I carry it in my 2” Taurus model 856UL daily. Its done well for me on water and also pork shoulder tests. It was awesome to see him test it in this video. Its good ammo and more people need to know how good it is.
Nice work; impressive results. My personal preference is for the BB “FBI” load because it really works well in my SP101 2.25”. IMHO it gives me a manageable round without excessive recoil.
That LHP has a beautiful mushroom.
Thumbs up on the HTP! 👍
HTP is a great round for a reasonable price, I always grab a box when I see one , I go with the .38 +P 125 grain semi jacketed HP , they are as advertised!
That old SWCHP 158 grain FBI load is old school reliable. It worked very well 40 years ago. Winchester, Remington, and Federal all had a version of it and they all worked well with similar expansion. I have duplicated it with the Hornady bullet, and have some Speer bullets waiting to be loaded some day.
The HTP was impressive 👍👍
Nice video. I actually use that HTP ammo in my edc snubby.
I'd take that Buffalo Bore over the others , that grenade effect inside a body is like a .357
You're probably right.
Great video and reviews. Thank you. I have my 2" snub nose loaded with the Underwood 140 gr penetrator that you tested. When I purchased it year ago, I called Underwood and asked about the penetration. with a 2' barreled snubby specifically. The guy was very nice to promiss me to do it for me. He called me next day and his test with the 2' barrel was 14.5-15' penetration. I forgot to ask if any barriers were used . I'd l prefer your measurmrnts with this rounds. Anyway, I believe it would definetely be adequate.
I've got some of those Remmington HTP's that I keep in my model 15 smith and wesson, in the 442 or 637 smith's that I carry I keep either Underwood 125 grain +p XTP rounds or Corbon 110 grain +p DPX rounds, I think they'll all ruin a bad guy's day.
Dave could u test the 110 +p dpx and also underwooods standard pressure swlchp? Much appreciate it
The BB is in all my .38s...
Nice.
I have one lodged in my arm, not a plus P. However it hit the bone and fragmented as it was a hollow point (old ammo maybe 10 years). From this experience I believe penetration isn’t the main concern. The fragmentation rendered my hand useless due to severed nerves. If it went through and through I would have been functional at the time. I’ve recovered now this was years ago. But gel just doesn’t have that aspect of bone density. I never fired an LCR but I believe I might go with a standard JHP
Yes, many of us who do gel tests wrack our brains for a more effective way to simulate striking bone, but it's always a sort of guess (live bone has fluids and marrow and even blood vessels) and anyway the industry standard remains organic ballistic gel, which supposedly equates to an average of all human tissues even though it requires covering in four layers of heavy denim to make the bullets come out looking remotely similar to how they look after passing through a human torso. Worse, the denim delays expansion such that the bullets travel up to 50% deeper. The traditional solution was to shoot a bare gel test to approximate real penetration and then a 4-layer denim test because it made the bullets deform similarly to how they look when surgically removed from an actual human body.
That htp is very accurate in my 642 so that is what i keep in it ,controllable as well.
I would like to see the HTP up against the Bonded Golden Saber !
Which IMHO, was rhe Gold Star carry for several calibers actually !
But the question begs, would they open up, if clogged with denim ?
Too, I believe it was the Buffalo Bore were the slo-mo caught a good sized piece slipping out at 90 degrees, between the Blocks !
I just bought the 110gr +p version of that Remington.. probably will do well out of a snub.
Do you have a chronograph? I'd love to know how that version performs out of a snub (before investing my own money to find out).
@@GeographyCzar no but I'm guessing almost a 1000 fps from a 2in but with high recoil
I wish you would have chronoed more of that HTP. 765 fps kinda sounds about right to me. With the soft lead and heavy weight it doesn't need all that JHP velocity. Good test.
Have the HTPs and underwood fbi loads, gonna be getting buffalo bore next for the collection. Any other recommendations?
Is 765fps completely out of line for 158 out of
Well, 765 fps muzzle velocity will not typically expand. Many people who use wadcutters prefer low velocity to limit overpenetration, but if you're going to shoot hollow points, you need something in 850+ range at least. The only exception I can think of is Federal's 38 Spl +P HST round, which will expand even at crazy low velocities, but these tend to underpenetrate in the testing I've seen. Back to your question, a snubbie will not typically allow for a complete powder burn, so if you're getting 765 fps at the muzzle of a 2" barrel, it's entirely possible the round was simply engineered to function properly from a 4" barrel instead.
Would’ve liked to have seen you test the BB 158gr standard pressure. I bet that one would’ve given you the best results of all.
Great test, thanks.
That let's the +P Xtreme Penetrators out except for maybe woods carry. How about testing Underwood's Xtreme Defender 100gr 38 Special +P load so we could see how much of the over penetration of the Penetrator is shaved off? Once again, thanks.
I was thinking of substituting the Black Hills Honey Badger. It may be a bit lower velocity, but much less expensive than Underwood's loading of the same projectile. Xtreme Penetrator vs Honey Badger... script writes itself, I'd say.
@@GeographyCzar Sounds good. I’d still rather see the Underwood loading of the Defender specifically because of the +P velocity rating, but I do understand the cost thing.
It’s why I’m waiting to order 4-6 boxes of the Underwood +P Defender loading until I can track down some decent testing. Gun Sam has done it a few times over the years with both the standard pressure and +p loading from Underwood with the 38 Special Xtreme Defender but there seem to have been issues of one sort or another pretty much every time he tested them. Through no fault of his own I might add.
Thanks and have a good one.
The Underwood Ext Defender are my go to in the winter months. No winter clothing stops them. Rest of the year it's Golden Saber non bonded
I'm not a fan of fragmentation in pistol rounds and I'm not convinced more energy is better for defensive use. I want a round that expands in denim tests and penetrates adequately.
Agreed.
It was cool seeing that bit of the BB round falling out in the slo-mo. How are those lead rounds working out in your LCR? Are they leading up the barrel or chambers?
I don't know, but probably - they are so soft that they deform when you drop them. Personally, I'm gonna stick with Underwood item # SKU 128 (125 gr Gold Dots) for my actual concealed carry load, but they do produce very stout recoil in a 13 oz gun. Nothing like what you've seen shooting actual 357s out of those helium alloy j-frames though, LOL!
@@GeographyCzar Trust me when I say that the Underwood 128 load does have some snap in my M&P340. Obviously it's not nearly as bad as a magnum 125gr load. But I would practice with target ammo and only do a cylinder of the #128 on a range day. A lot of that has to do with the price of the #128. I've found that the HTP feels about the same and it is a lot cheaper. And when I finally get my bench cleared of all the gun smithing stuff, I can do hand loads.
Great expansion. I’d be concerned about what it does after a rib, arm bone, any substantial intermediate material other than clothing. I’d think it would lose a lot of penetration in a 38
I'll take the BB any time....it is what is in my 649 whenever it gets carried...
I presume you saw the part of the BB that escaped? I forget how it performed through 4-layers of denim?
I did, yes! I didn't see it at the time, but only when I slowed the video down. I could tell what had happened after I was holding all the pieces I could find, because it didn't weigh the same in my hand as the intact Remington bullet. Speaking of intact, the Buffalo Bore actually hold together nicely if you put up three or four layers of denim. They also expand to tremendous diameter. The BB are an amazing load, but too much power for a 13 oz gun.
The Rim Rock 158gr. LSWCHP boolit is to soft, bh is 5. I load MATT'S 158gr., it's a Crammer #11 and performs ideal @1,000fps.
Did you see the "BEE" on the yellow cap that got blown off from the shock? So funny!!!
Thanks for this video the HTP 158 grain is actually available on Remingtons website as of 1/23
Interesting test, Dave. Too bad you didn't have an example of Underwood's standard pressure .38 Spl 100 gr XD, and Underwood's standard pressure .38 Spl 150 gr hard cast hi-tek coated double-ended wad cutter to throw into the mix.
That would be an interesting comparison test in its own right. I suspect the Lehigh bullets are gaming the gel test, but I'm not really sure on that point.
I thought about it, but there's only so much room in those gel blocks. I will probably do both of those comparisons eventually, but I'm already behind schedule on my 115 gr 9mm tests.
@@GeographyCzar Understandable. I was personally just thinking a single test of those two loads in their own gel blocks. But you did say gel is getting expensive. I think the NFL is hoarding all the pig skin.
I've not seen any real-life reports about those underwood fluted solid bullets, and I'm not gonna be the first guy to try 'em.
That was an underwood extreme PENETRATOR..It is supposed to penetrate..
I've seen that Underwood has on their website a 38 SPECIAL +P 158GR. SEMI-WADCUTTER HOLLOW POINT that they state has 472 ft. lbs. of energy. Anybody have any experience with this round?
Yes. Right at 1,000fps average from a 2 inch barrel and about 1,140fps from a 4 inch. Soft lead, big hollow point, pretty much guaranteed expansion but good penetration. Great round, the Buffalo Bore version is perhaps loaded slightly hotter but either one are phenomenal for .38 special.
@@harrypeterson9287 oh ok, thanks for the info!
💯🇺🇸❤️
Danger close, hehe, That’s for artillery, not .38 Specials.
I always just used wadcutters.
Are you concered with over penetration? Leaning towards wadcutters too but im concerned about over penetration
@@TyroneLylesJr-vm5ot winchester or federal won"t over penetrate,underwood and buffalo bore wadcutters will.
The Remington expanded much better than it's reputation. in two inch barrel it traditionally expanded on one side only.
As to recoil in Buffalo Bore that looks like a K frame gun
You’re shootings too close to the chrono. I’ve found 5 ft to about the closest for good reliability
Yup! You’re not the only one. Thanks for the 5’ though, everyone else so far wants 10. At ten feet, with my tremor, I’m getting about 3 out of 5 shots to even register. There’s a reason I don’t do the accuracy tests like other “guntubers”. Lately I’ve taken to shooting at 6 or 7 feet. That seems to work…
surprisingly crap bullet loaded by buffalo bore
Soft lead does fragment at those velocities.
@@GeographyCzar buffalo bore "knows". I understand they do not cast some, if not all, of the bullets they load. creeps (Synonyms for CREEPS: jerks, bastards, clowns, dogs, skunks, skunk, vermin, rats;) in the supply chain? always cheat, in these times the "good people" also?
What's there to complain about? The 158gr +P soft lead semi wadcutter hollow point is a proven performer on the streets and in tests blows most other rounds out of the water.
It going to expand and it's going to penetrate well enough. Loaded at 1,000fps from a 2 inch barrel you're looking at arguably one of the most powerful and reliable performing .38 rounds available.
Loose the auto focus
That phone is 3 years old. I need to get one that focuses better.