150 grain 38 Special standard pressure hard cast wadcutters by Underwood Ammo, tested in a Ruger LCR
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- čas přidán 8. 06. 2022
- 150 grain 38 Special standard pressure hard cast wadcutters by Underwood Ammo, tested in a Ruger LCR
I've actually conducted two 5-shot chronograph tests on this ammunition, and the results were almost identical. I rolled in footage from the second test because the video was clearer. I also included card links to the following videos:
• Shooting Test: Underwo...
• Chrony Test of Underwo...
The 38 Special is the quiet little guy with the bow tie in the corner cubicle. Not flashy, just quietly goes about his job with no drama. Then year-end analysis reveals he has done more with less and is the most reliable, consistent guy of all.
Haha, spot on.
lol well said
VERY well said!
As opposed to the 500 magnum who is the guy who speaks too loud in meetings and farts explosively in the break room.
@@willo7734 😂😂👍
Wad cutters are highly underrated and under estimated in their ability by many folks. They just haven’t experienced the true performance of a regular old standard unassuming round.
Finally. I have been carrying these in my LCR for about 5 yrs. Short barrel guns don't work with Hollow points. Wad cutters are brutal.
HAD my 357 LCR..... but arthritis had me switch to SP101. The wadcutters are terrific. Been using them for a while now. I'll have to try these! Thanks!
I wish federal still made micro hst
@@tysonfromm5397 They are the best round ever for a snubby.
@@tires2burnwhats your take on these over penetrating?
@@TyroneLylesJr-vm5ot Most HP's won't open up from a snubby and will go straight through so what's the difference?
I have been loading my own for 30 years. My favorite 38 special is the 148 grain wadcutters. I have an old Lyman mold I got from my grandfather that he used for over 50 years. Even though people are fatter than they used to be, this still works.
Just ordered these and a box of 158 grain semi wadcutter hp by underwood because of your vids. Appreciate the info my snubby brother 👍🏻
Thank you for the informative video. I like the wadcutters in the LCR and this video makes me think it's a good choice.
Nice test. This was the exact video I was looking for.
I always enjoy your videos. You and Tools & Targets always provide the most relevant ballistic tests.
Two of my favorites as well! Very true
Years ago I read about a neighborhood pest eradication project. Full .38 Special wad cutters along with other calibers and bullets were used. The writer indicated that mild wad cutters worked extremely well for the porcupine infestation. Actually better than some larger calibers and bullets. I've used .38/357 enough to consider medium level .38 Special SWC loads to be very effective in the field. It's pretty "special".
Porcupines make good eating
@@noturfather1106But you have to watch the quills.
Thanks for confirming that you would want to be on the delivery end of this standard pressure round. Good on underwood.
Great test !
After 4 years away from full wadcutters , I have returned to shooting them , I went from 148 grain to 155 grain this time around !
Old school proves itself once more.
AMEN.
They are so overlooked !
This is the gel test I've been hoping to see ever since I became acquainted with this DEWC "lipstick" cartridge from Underwood. Thank you, Dave! Thank you, thank you!
Happy to oblige! You are most welcome, Noah!
This test proved the old adage that the wadcutter was a good defensive load because of the cutting. Nasty looking would and more than enough penetration to break a bone/hit a vital organ. Impressive!
fleshcutters
Always great to see options for my .38 Snubbie, thanks. I have a Smith model 36 from 1966. Lotsa talk about shooting +P fodder. I prefer standard pressure cartridges and so far I dig the Sellier & Ballot 148gr wadcutters. Would like to try these out. They look boss.
Nice Video! As another commenter pointed out, a little slower puts you around 16" penetration. Double Tap has an excellent hard cast wadcutter that does 700-750 from an LCR; these and the Underwoods are the two loads I trust based on my needs at the time. Also, unlike most wadcutters, I find the Underwoods fairly easy to load with a speed strip.
Holy hell, I’m buying these immediately.
Thanks, really appreciate the test.👍🏻👍🏻
Another awesome video, thanks
Nice test, thanks for sharing!
My LCR is loaded with Hornady 148 grain LHBWC. I load them a little on the warm side but very controllable. Best round for a snubby.
Nice testing! I’m going to grab some of those and try them in my j-frame S&W. looks like they perform better than hollowpoints when you have a 1.8 inch barrel.
Great video
love to see any tests of wadcutters, thank you. i load my j-frame 38sp revolvers with target wadcutters for softer recoil and higher, consistent, probability of hits. until handgun ammo comes with a proximity fuse only hits count.
I don't worry about energy on a pistol round anymore either as until you get to the truly magnum rounds like at or above 44 mag you're energy is not high enough to be as big of a concern as penetration and shot placement!!! North of 1000ftlbs is where you start seeing much more explosive effects from energy. Under that they'll pretty much get the same results with good shot placement. Not saying that more energy isn't better even when you're looking at rounds under the 1k mark, it's just not the end all be all that people obsess over that has them arguing 9mm vs 45acp vs 40s&w and all that!!! They are all going to do their job with good shot placement!!! I remember my dad telling me growing up about an old lady that kept a 38 special next to her bed that woke up to 3 things coming in her room to rob her, in her own house. That old lady planted 2 in the ground, and tore up the 3rd guy and he ran out of there hurtin bad!!!
The problem is these straight gel tests don’t have a bone medium. Not only will it punch that nice cookie cutter hole through a human sternum but the bone pieces it punches out will act like shrapnel in soft tissue.
When I carried a snubby i had the BB wadcutters in the cylinder and some Keith SWC hand loads for my reloads
I love the Underwood Wadcutters.
After I did some experiments with different hollow points and had so many failure to expand issues in my j-frame revolver, I went to hard cast bullets. I now use my hand loaded 158 grain wadcutters. I get 700 fps with 4 grains of Unique powder. That is standard pressures but it kicks pretty hard in an airweight.
850 FPS isn't bad at all. I have used SWC of similar weight and speed. They demonstrated very good penetration at moderate velocity too.
Very interesting. Thanks.
Very surprising! Good video of 👍
Thank you I shoot alot of load good show very good information
Lead bullets
those are some strong puppies
Outstanding!💥👏👏👏👍👍👍👍👍
I use 38 Special Wadcutters from Choice Ammunition. They run about 800 in my LCR.
I just bought a box of those! Choice Hi-Tec coated .38 wadcutters rated at 800 fps. I figured they should give a little better performance than the target wadcutters from the major brands. But I haven't tried them yet.
Useful information.😁
Glad it was helpful!
I was thinking about for black bear defense and then you mentioned it.. not for grizzlies or large browns but for black bear I think it would make a great defense gun in the woods
What is the chamber pressure on these ? 🤔
Good video. Subbed.
Thanks for the sub!
how do they compare to a hollowpoint shot the same way? Also are they lead?
Would be fun to test Buffalo Bore's standard pressure FBI load equivalent. From what I have seen they preform really well.
Nice video. I would imagine the recoil impulse would be very much higher in an Airweight than, say 100 grain Lehigh. Easier on the paw and much faster with similarly deep penetration.
It would not be bad in this load. Underwood does a great job of playing with the pressure curve which allows them to maximize the ballistic potential while cutting down on the recoil some.
These are cast double-ended wadcutters (DEWC). They penetrate deeper than swaged hollow-base wadcutters (HBWC). If you want less penetration, try something loaded with HBWCs like Federal Gold Medal Match rounds.
So interesting. Curious why the hollow based would be less. Is it just about weight?
Surprising!
I wonder if the boards caused them to bounce back? Do you think they might have gone even further through only gel?
Yes.
Have you ever tested "target load" wadcutters in gel? Like from Fiocchi?
Nope. But getting requests... I almost bought a box last week, but I needed to use the money on some more 9mm for my 115 gr standard pressure series, which I've neglected long enough.
Does anyone have experience with these through a 3 inch revolver?
In this caliber and gun type, would these work better than Underwood's Extreme Defender?
Dang, I gotta get me a box of those.
That's pretty impressive have a short barrel
Don't forget they're Hardcast, not just "Wadcutters" Also, Buffalo Bores version is rated at 850fps, not "hotter" than Underwood. These Hardcast are designed to penetrate deep, these are not "paper punchers"
It's one of only two rounds I carry in my .38s! And both are Underwood!✌️
How do you feel about these over penetrating? Whats the second round you carry
@@TyroneLylesJr-vm5ot
When in "Town," I carry UWs 158 semi-wadcutter hollow point! When hiking and have no concern for over penetration, I carry the Hardcast Wadcutter. It's a better option for 4 legged predators!
@@Steve-yo4ld thanks man, im in between underwoods 158 slwchp standard or their 100 grain + p defender because its solid copper, have you noticed any bullet creep with the 158 swlchp? Whats your carry firearm? Mines is 642
You are spot on!
I like wadcutter loads but perhaps at that velocity I am thinking you are losing the lack of recoil that is part of the appeal.
Yes... they're not as bad as some of the Underwood +P loads, not to mention Buffalo Bore, but yes.
Those things sure do chomp! How's the recoil? SKU 732 is still out of stock! I might be able to get a similar load using Berry's 148gr coper plated double base wadcutters. I've got load data for that type of load as it is fairly standard.
They recoil medium high. Not sure how to gauge it as my hands have changed mightily since I had carpal tunnel surgery 5 years ago. They are nowhere near as bad as the 158 grain "semi-wad-cutter" +P load by Underwood (which averages out close to 400 ft-lbs of energy in my tests).
@@GeographyCzar I wonder how they would do in the 755fps range. That would be about 200 ft-lbs for the 158s.
I tried some in a 637 AirWeight a few months ago. I would describe it as very stout...
Man, I will always love a .38. Mine just always works.
Might try this round out for animal encounters while backpacking!
Old skool rounds dont let you down for sure! Thanks for testing and sharing. 🎩🎱🏁🎯♠♦♣♥🌼🏵🌸💙💛🔱🌻🇺🇸🍀
Will this be OK in an old sw chief that isn't rated for plusP ?
I believe so, yes.
I will likely be carrying this ammunition in my S&W 442 .38
Wadcutter is the way to go in a snuby!
Probably right.
How is the recoil compared to something like a 125 gr +p gold dot?
It's pretty stout. I'd compare it to the 135 gr +P Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel. It surprises me that this is "Standard" pressure. But then again, I'm shooting it from a hybrid polymer-aluminum revolver so... take my opinion with a grain of salt.
@@GeographyCzar That's my thought here though. I have regular wadcutters, and the Gold Dot you mentioned. The latter is effective from what I've read. I like wadcutters for low recoil.
No such thing as a perfect solution but I have carried these in my snub nose for years. Keep an open mind and watch enough ballistic videos and you will see why.
plan to use .32 wadcutters in my S&W 632UC if and when it arrives.
the more I test them, the more I think wadcutters are the way to go
2 thoughts. If you use standard 158 grain wad cutters rated at 750 fps, they will lessen the penetration and be more comfortable to shoot in that LCRX.
Where’d you get that sweet copper-plated cylinder?
Online somewhere. Clearance price too. I don't think Ruger makes these anymore.
@@GeographyCzar cdnn used to sell the..
Is the "red coating" some kind of epoxy coat ?
No, I'm pretty sure it is a "powder" coat. Reloaders know more about this stuff than I. It melts at a lower temp than lead, so it can be used to make a kind of candy shell around a bullet.
@@GeographyCzar If you were to find out any more, can you make mention of it ? Maybe put in a link ?
@@lestergillis8171 this guy probably knows:
lead bullets 4 life
Check out his channel, he's a reloader and has to skirt the CZcams rules on "manufacturing" ammo, but he really knows his stuff and does the powder coats. I'm not sure he addresses the specific coatings used by major manufacturers like Federal and Underwood, but he knows the DiY side.
A black bear was spotted in my community. I took out the gold dot 135, and loaded these back in my 442. 🐻
I also have a 442. I don’t think I’d try that in brown bear country….
How about grizzly country?
@@SiliconDrifterin grizzly country a 38 would likely make him angrier as he eats you.
Organic gel is a reasonable analog for flesh in penetration. However wound damage is a very different thing since flesh is far more elastic than gel and doesnt tear nearly as easily. Looking at gel wound damage is pretty much meaningless
Hows the recoil in the underwood vs normal 148 gr wadcutters?
Recoil is noticeably higher with the Underwood.
🇺🇸
Can you do this in .357 magnum? Liked and subbed
I need to buy one. 357 has been on my wish list for years.
I like wadcutters especially for snubby guns and doubly so for recoil sensitive shooters, but over 20 inches and bouncing off of wood is way too much for self defense, and with velocity numbers like that you're losing the benefit of the lower recoil you usually get with wadcutters.
Wadcutters are a great choice but I think this specific load has some problems
Right, it will not be low recoil with the high power wadcutters. I wonder if at that point you might as well go with high power, quality HPs such as a speer gold dot?
@GrandInquisitor personally, I would. Because if you're going to use a load with that kind of recoil you night as well use a quality JHP like a gold dot, a load like this just kind of defeats the purpose of using wadcutters for self defense
@@mr.browning7.624 I'm in agreement. I have both, the light WCs, normal +p HPs such as Gold Dot, and then the Underwood/Buffalo Bore super +P. I think out of a larger or steel gun, it's okay. But, the whole point of a wadcutter is low recoil, or, if one doesn't have one of the proven short barrel HPs.
@GrandInquisitor yes exactly, and I think it's important to specify low recoil particularly out of smaller guns (ruger LCR, J frame, etc) if you step up to a larger all steel gun. Then you may as well run a good hollowpoint because you have the advantage of the extra barrel length and better recoil control. Now is that to say that a wadcutter and a +p hollowpoint are going to feel the same out of larger gun? Of course not. But the gap between them is going to shrink quite a bit with a gun like that. I guess I just have a hard time seeing the point of a wadcutter load like this from a practical perspective
@@grandinquisitor1522 the point of wadcutters is penetration and not wondering if your HP will open up. Low recoil is secondary unless you are recoil sensitive for some strength or medical reason. I don't choose defensive ammo based on recoil (within reason), I choose it based on terminal performance
How about 158 grain lead semi-wadcutters?
They will punch through a 4" wooden post and keep going like it was never there.
Flying soup cans..haha
I'd love to be able to find some for sale!
Me too!
Underwood has the new black cherry coated wad cutter for 38 special right now just got them delivered today 😊 same cartridge new coating 👍
@@KCBluesJams Thanks! Picked up some today!
👍
Hows the recoil?
Tougher than you'd expect for 860 fps at the muzzle.
21 inches is not over penetration. Lots of big target on 2 legs. No gun shot flys straight once it hits the target.
I think this bullet design - the "soup can" will continue straight when fired through just about anything... good idea for a round of testing!
You are correct
Wadcutters leave a big hole if nothing else. Over penetration with no energy or almost none is job well done IMO. Try 200 Grain WC or RN and see what you get. Might be tumble. The British
.38-200 was their Military version of .38 SW with a 200 gr lead round nose called a manstopper. I digress.
I think Gun Sam tested some of those 200 grain bullets... have to look for them.
😊
Very impressive. I have a better appreciation for soup cans.
Dear Underwood; A .38 Special 200 gr. LRN at 720 fps out of a 2" snub would be fabulous. Hint, Hint.
These leave my Uberti 5.5" Stallion at just over 1000 fps.
I think these companies need to advertise comma something to the effect... We make the ammunition that you could easily make at home. But don't have the time or inclination to do so period enjoy.
Probably not over penetration on a wild boar. 😇
Yo!
The average male has a 40 inch waist. 20 inches is perfect
IF THE BAD GUY IS A 280 POUND BODY BUILDER OR A 300 POUND BEHEMOTH IN FULL WINTER CLOTHING -- THAT IS NOT OVER PENETRATION -- I'LL TAKE THAT ANYDAY OVER A ROUND THAT EXPANDS LIKE A FLOWER IN THE MORNING BUT ONLY GOES IN 10 INCHES OR SO
Def gonna have a leak on both sides.
Did anyone ever tell you you sound like Michael Mckean The actor
No, but that's awesome! Thanks!
algorithm
Speed 1.5X helps watching this. Or greater
As always, the recommended speed setting for my narratives, lol!
Audue
No way that is "standard pressure" by a wide margin. Most 148gr wadcutters are doing about 700fps out of a 2". This is a deep penetrating and bone breaking self defense load for sure.
Underwood and Buffalo Bore somehow achieve +P velocities with 'standard pressure' via some kind of powder mix. However, those 'standard pressure' end up being as stout recoil as normal +p.
Lethal little Campbells tomato soup can
Exactly!
I do not accept the concept of overpenetration. A center of mass shot through the sternum, going through the heart, which breaks the spine on the way out in a 300 lb bad guy can't fail. Whereas, a hollow point CAN fail.
The concept of overpenetration and the goal of stopping in the magical distance of 12 to 18 inches of gel is an excuse to develop and sell overpriced ammo. Don't fall for it. Most of them fail to deliver what they promise. (Hell, you already know they lie about the velocity.) A heavy-for-caliber LSWC or RNFP at low velocity (and low recoil) will get the penetration you need. I saw his bullets go through the entire gel column with very little recoil and thought, "That's what I want!"
Just remember that the 4th Rule of Gun Safety always applies, even in a gun fight. "Know your target and what's behind it." Hollow points don't give you a pass on that rule.
Dumb question, but why not simply carry a little 9mm? I mean, I don't carry either a 9mm or a .38, but it seems like you'd be getting better ballistic performance along with much greater capacity. Have you seen how good Federal HST 124 gr 9mm rounds expand from a 3" semi-auto?
Have a look at this (this is why I carry a .45) but it shows 9mm performing quite well from a short barrel. It's short and to the point...
czcams.com/video/DGk9U7xt5I4/video.html
Some people just prefer revolvers. But most of us will carry depending on what threat we are most likely expecting to encounter. I typically carry a LCR chambered in. 327 FM and loaded with Hornady Critical Defense loads during the summer. I'll switch that up to 327 100gr SJSP Federal or Buffalo Bore hardcast full wadcutters during the winter months for better penetration through heavy winter coats. The Buffalo Bore 32 S&W Long hardcast wadcutters and semiwadcutters do surprisingly well, with very comfortable recoil. But if I feel necessary, I'll pack a 1911 or other option.
Because .38 has been a self defense man stopper for 100 years + and its a revolver. You can shoot it out of your pocket or jacket if you have too and its more reliable. Youre welcome.
@@lm1174 Five round capacity. Slow to reload. Reloading requires fine motor skills which we lose under stress.
Recoil, even with standard pressure .38 special loads, is punishing.
Mastering the double action pull takes a lot of practice. Add to that the crappy sights and the short sight radius. Being that no one wants to shoot a J-frame a lot, they won't practice with it as much as they should to stay proficient.
.38s out of a barrel that short perform poorly.
@@HalfCrazy520 You do understand that cops carried revolvers for decades and they served them very well. Dade shooting is really is the only time they were a problem. I understand we all try to be prepared for any situation but we are NEVER prepared for all situations maybe if you carry a rifle around. If you think someone is after you then i wouldnt carry a revolver..Youre going to need two striker fired pistols and security. 🤣
@@lm1174 " *You do understand that cops carried revolvers for decades and they served them very well* "
Do you understand that 1) over those decades many advancements were made in firearms and ammunition? 2) the Dade shootout was not the ONLY time revolvers were a problem and, because of that, departments were already transitioning to semi-auto 9mm pistols? 3) police departments no longer issue revolvers for good reason? 4) I'm not a cop and don't really care what they carry?
Life is a series of compromises. Choose your compromise. Mine is something I can conceal in reasonable comfort, holds at least 10 rounds, and is ballistically effective... but more importantly, something I shoot often and shoot well.
Camera leaves a lot to be desired.
Underwoods 150gr Wadcutters or their 158gr Semi-Wadcutters or their 100gr Maximum Expansions or their 100gr Xtreme Defender fluted monolithic?