How to install Mud in a shower floor
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- čas přidán 9. 02. 2013
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How to install mud in a shower pan for a tile shower stall. When installing a tile shower, whether it be ceramic, marble travertine or any other tile product, a mud base will be required. Mud also known as deck mud, is a mixture of sand and Portland cement mixed to a ratio that will create a solid foundation for the tile which will be installed on it. The deck mud is mixed with water to a dump consistence which will allow the deck mud to hold its shape when pressed into a ball. The mud must be pitcher towards the drain so that a slope of at least 1|4" per foot is achieved. The ratio of sand and Portland cement is usually 4:1 or 5:1. I usually use "Quikrete" sand topping mix, which as far as I know, has a ratio which is a little richer than needed, but is suitable for a shower pan. The method I employ to install my mud shower pan, is to create a level and flat perimeter around the base of the shower walls which is at the correct height in relation to the drain, and then fill the middle part of the shower pan screeding down to the drain with the proper pitch. The mud is shaped with a wooden trowel, steel trowel, level and other pieces of straight wood lengths cut to the required lengths. In this video I demonstrate the technique I use to install a shower mud pan base. There are other methods that can be used, but this is the way I have installed hundreds of shower bases.
All tile installed by Sal DiBlasi, Elite-tile Company, in the Boston North Shore area. This video contains affiliate links, which means I will receive a small commission if you click on the product link.
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I'm 27 yrs old and I'm really into home renovations. I have to say most of your videos, You have done each step properly and done it as it was your own. I really do hope to maintain my quality in any work I do. step by step process. the way you've shown in all your videos. good job
Thanks for your videos Sal. My first time doing a pre-slope and mortar bed. Your method worked great for me, but I have to say, you make it look pretty easy. That was work! Thanks again.
Ken Nelson storm door.
That depends on the kind of backer you use, but generally when I install the backer I don't let it sit on the pan at all, The backer should not touch the pan, so there would be no point to caulking it. Also I usually waterproof the mud and lower part of the walls (if I don't waterproof the whole thing) to minimize or eliminate water penetrating into the pan.
Just jack hammered out a mud bass that had the backer into the base like this. The backer board was all rotted out. Should be above the mud.
Thanks greatly for your advise. Concrete and I have never been friends, but using your technique of the level towers and "just damp" mud, I did my 5.5X5.5 shower base successfully. My drain was in one corner so I had two level walls and two that angled down, but following your guidance worked beautifully.
I love these videos especially when you speed it up! I like the scratching sound of the tools in high speed! BTW you are very knowledgeable!
Thanks Sal.. I'm attempting a new shower pan and just wanted to be clear on the proper procedure. I appreciate your time in answering my questions... Love your channel!
Been an assistant for a tile guy for almost 3 years..this is high level stuff.Very informative.Thank you
Glad it was helpful!
Glad I could help, I will soon be doing another video showing a second way that I use to do the pans.
Man this was so extremely helpful. You missed nothing out. Now I can be confident in my mud pan! Thanks
Thanks for the help Sal. I just completed my master bath restoration. I stripped everything to the framing and went from there. I ended up with a beautiful 30”x48” walk-in shower and beautiful tile floors. I’ve worked in carpentry for years but never did tile work before. I wish I could share pictures here. Your videos guided me to a beautiful and leak free finished product. Thanks again
Nice to hear, enjoy your new bathroom.
Great video, Sal. I'm about to do my first mud pan and this is exactly the level of detail I needed. You gave a lot of really good tips that I will certainly take advantage of. Thanks!
This is a very useful video for me. I'm installing a tiled shower in my house to the west of Boston. The plumbing inspector told me that I had to use a copper pan liner. It took me a long time to figure out how to do this with a pre-slope! I have the cement board inside the liner, just like you, but it's all covered with Red Guard so that the moisture barrier is on the INSIDE, not behind the wall finish. A lot of sources say that the mud base has to be 2 to 3 inches thick, but I have just 1 3/4 inches from the top surface of the liner to the bottom row of wall tiles, so I want it to be much thinner and I'm encouraged to see that you're putting down only a little more than an inch in this shower.
Boston is the last bastion of the copper pan, I am just North of Boston. If copper pans would go away all together it would actually be a good thing. I have had to deal with them for more than 30 years and I only accept them these days when I have no other choice, I would much prefer, and mostly do, sealed showers systems these days.
Sal, your Da'Man! Thanks for the great vids!!!!
This is gold , thanks for posting have done lots of tile but doing my first shower pan for brother in law. You make things clear and very easy to understand. Thanks again
If you are interested I also have another video with a slightly different method. How to install mud in a shower floor Method 2
These are great videos! Very helpful commentary and awesome start to finish demonstration. Thank you taking the time to share!
Excellent video! I have viewed a lot of videos on this subject and yours is REALLY done correctly!
Sir I appreciate your your time for this video and it looks good job now learning a lot thank you so much
Thanks for walking us through and detailing what you are doing and WHY...cheers
Thank you Sal for an excellent tutorial. I hope my first and probably only shower install goes as smoothly.
Good luck!
Major help for my project! Many thanks for your efforts on the video!
What a great video. I feel semi confident I can pull this off!
lol...
Thanks Sal, your videos are the ones I follow! Very informative! Thanks!
thank you for these lessons Sal, im doing my first shower and Im setting the pan liner tomorrow and I was going to pour the concrete and i just noticed the durock and waterproofing is done first before concrete.
Hi Sal. I just want to say thanks for all the advise. The second time round, the topper mix went perfectly. Used the additive with water. Thanks again. Matt
Hey Mattt............. did you use water with the additive? I used straight additive in place of the water and it seemed difficult to finish. Did you tear it out after the first time?
@@keithowens9242 Hi keith. Yes I used a small amount of additive with the water. The first time I used sac crete and I didn't get a good curing. So I took it out and went with quick crete topper mix. Came out great. Not saying anything bad about sac crete but I didn't have good luck with it. Watch Sal Dablasi of elite tile. He gave me great advise. Good luck.👍
Yes you can, use some kind of bonding agent a little thinset will work. A membrane may be required depending on the condition of the slab and intended use of the deck mud that you are going to install.
Nice job Sal , that's the only way to do it . Never mind all those fancy plastic pre pitched systems ,they just don't give you the satisfaction of a job well done.
Pre pitched such as quick pitch are great if your not comfortabel with dong traditional dry pack. But you must watch out if the drain isnt center or the showee os an irregular shae the lenght of pitch stick will be different giving you an un level perineter that will have all angle cuts wher wall meets the floor. I find that the installations doesnt look very good and its all due to the mud job .
Great video, the best example I've seen.
Thanks for sharing your expertise!
I also enjoyed the video. I've made about a dozen showers using roughly this technique. I did not approach the quality that Sal showed in this video on my first few. Even now I take considerably longer than Sal does and I certainly learned a few things from this video. One thing I do that wouldn't help Sal much but might be of use to a less experienced person is to use a laser level to place check marks around the perimeter to mark the correct level. I make the curb at the same time I do pan.
The man is a master.
Glad I could help.
Thanks for these videos. I did the pre-slope today, and it's not as easy as you make it look.
LOL
It rarely is--10,000 hours makes a pro. I'm chuckling because tomorrow it will be me finding out that Sal makes it look easier than it will be for an amateur.
Lol
Sal makes everything look easy!
Thank you.
Sal, thanks for taking the time to make a video, it is very thorough. If I could ask one question regarding the curb I would appreciate if you could clarify a detail. Does the curb need to go from the plate/wall to plate/wall or do you leave a half inch on either side for the backerboard?
Great job very informative Thank You
You link one video with another, the circle drain then the square drain , I like what I see, thank you for good lesson 🙏
You are welcome!
Thanks Sal, good stuff.
Enjoy your videos and work Sal, question regarding the curb; after the floor has been presloped and the vinyl liner has been laid, how are you placing the "inside wall" of the curb so as to not puncture the vinyl. Is liquid nails ok, or even thin set?
thanks again.
What are you using for a pan liner.
Interesting to see someone else's way of installing a mud pan. I'm from the NJ/NY area. I mix it until I can make a "meatball", then I know it's good to go. I make "ribbons" which means that I compact the mud completely around before I get started on the rest of the pan. Never used gravel by the weeping holes though. I'd like to try it, but I don't want to experiment on a client's house. Very nice job. Also, your liner corners are perfect, no lumping out. Good plumber, or good tile man.
You should watch this, czcams.com/video/p8xsx3316IU/video.html
@Amit Shah Exactly, i outlined how to do a pre-slope in another video.
There are a lot of options for a pan liner, I would suggest that you determine what is the norm in your area, Maybe you can look into A Schluter Kerdi Shower system.
I did a "Hot Mop"
H.B. California 👍
Sal, thanks for all the great videos. Just did my first pan and got a ton of help from this one. Quick question: should I waterproof the pan (with redguard or aquadefense or something)?
glad i could help
The laser is a nice tip for a novice, or even a level line made with an old fashioned bubble level could be of help.
I agree with you, but that all depends on whether there is a vapor barrier behind the backer board or not. In this case i did not install the Durock and the GC put up a vapor barrier before installing the CBU. I don't always have control of how things are done. If you watch a few of my other videos , you will see in most cases i do waterproof the entire surface of the CBU, which i think is the prefered method
hey im just messing with you bro im 40 yrs old now ive been around this all my life since 1983 u do good work I like your style
@MrVidproduct Yes you need a pre-slope under the liner, I also have a video of that.
Great video, doing my second bath using your methods, first was a tub... What is min thickness for this mud bed on the liner? I would like to do walk out but already 1" up from concrete and want to match my bedroom floor to bath in the future... trying to not be 2.5" up through the rest of the house... maybe curb is best bet?
Sal, great video! I am about to do my first ever shower and your videos are the best. One question: When you still work on the mud making sure that the tile is level with the drain do you also account for the height that the tile thinset will add? In the video it looks like you just make the tile and the drain perfectly leveled. Thanks in advance!
Thanks for the videos Sal. I cant tell you how much they've helped. How log should I wait after forming my mud shower floor prior to painting one of the Waterproof membranes on it?Thanks.
I was told that you can have a mud mixed on the try side. Once you finished, you can sprinkle water on to the mud pan to make the cement harden. Is that a good way to do it?
I have seen it done that way, but never actually tried it
Great video Sal
Great videos. You are very good and I learned I lot of good tips. Subscribed.
sal after you lay the mud pan do you install a rubber membrane to waterproof do you have a video for waterproofing
Sal, nice work, Sir.
Hey Sal, You ever caulk the seam where the backerboard meets the mud shower pan prior to tiling? I haven't however I have heard conflicting views on this as to weather it is beneficial or not, thanks
It could be very helpful for us (watchers) if you show us how to build a curb. I mean full process wood, liner, durack,mud around.
Thank you for your lessons.
I will see what I can do.
Your curb looks so nice compare to mine:)))))
I can appreciate your level perimeter. My pan is long with an offset drain. As long as I keep steeper than 1/4" per foot on the longest slope and adjust other slopes steeper, will 2x2 tile work?
Hey Sal from one contractor to another your brilliant.
Takes a brilliant contractor to recognize that. 😋
waao i have 12 year of experince and every day can learn something more littlebe diferent but the same i like your videos thanks you .rigth now im working in arkansas and they work little be diferent
thank you Sal DiBlasi that the only ways I think it's the Best Way #1 Mix is OnlyDamp and that is easy to level them right way. most people mix to wet so the got trouble to level and got so messy. Thank YOu So much making this video . you are the best .
excellent work and video.
Hello Sal. Great video series. I've been watching them for a couple weeks now. I'm getting ready to attempt my first shower pan. What is your take on adding Quikrete Acrylic Fortifier to the Quikrete Sand/Topping mix? Is it beneficial, or completely unnecessary?
@k crofoot yes it will dry hard as a rock, and yes you can set your tile on it.
do you pour a "pre-pan" layer of mortar under the shower liner first, then install liner, then pour finished layer over liner? Or is this the only mortar you pour?
Question!!?? Since I have to tear up my floor to lower it anyhow can I make the preslope pitch built in the subfloor? Fab the floor joist so when I put plywood down it is sloped to drain Then all I should have to do is put vinyl liner down and then one layer of mud for tile
Finally old school way this exactly how I do them never a problem or call back
the cement board can be below the mud pack? I have seen videos where the contractor keeps the CBU at least 1/2" above the finished mud pan, tile the floor, then bring wall tile to the floor...??
Great video thanks so much. How long does the mud need to dry before you can proceed with tiling?
Boy does that bring back memories. I'm sore just watching lol.
😊👍
2 questions: The mud will still set pretty hard when mixed that dry? and 2: you lay the tile right on top of the mud you just packed in?
great job !!!!
Sal, thanks so much for taking the time to make these videos, I've learned so much from watching you. I am in the process of making my bed on top of the rubber membrane. I got all the mud in and let it set over night and when I checked it the next day the top of it is still pretty sandy and I could actually make marks in it. I think I mixed it too dry, is there any way to correct this? I sprayed some water on the top with a spray bottle hoping to engage the cement to harden it but it's still gritty. What should I do? Add a thin layer of wetter sand topping mix to what is there or add a thin layer of thinset over it?
I have heard this countless times from people who have the same problem the first time doing it, so don't feel bad. My advice is start over, you want to get the base right, think of it as a practice run. The good news is that it should be easy to remove, next time make sure it is damp enough and that you pack it down really well.
Sal, Thanks for taking the time to teach us all how to set a shower pan. One question. If floating the walls instead of concrete board would you do the pan and then the float or float first?
Walls first, but if you have never floated walls, you might be taking on more than you might think.
I am curious, is it really necessary to staple the wire lath down and if so how often should it be stapled and how big a staple? How close do you fit the wire lath to the walls? Do you leave some space or do you butt the lathe against the wall? Also is there anything wrong with using self-furring wire lath.
How do you attach the Durock to the interior side of the curb? Thanks.
I am installing into a 3' x 7' area where the drain is 18" from one end. Can you provide any guidance on how to work out the slopes since the drain isn't centered?
Can somebody please help. Do you slope before you put the shower pan liner ? Or lay it straight on the foundation floor then liner and then mud it ?
Thank again Sal.
Sal, I did make my pan just like yours. I am a little worried that I didn't add enough water. I was able to make a snowball with the mix, but I noticed that the mix I threw in the trash never got hard when I saw it the next day? Is that because the pan mix got packed and then sets up? Whereas, the sand mix in the trash never got packed? I am worried my pan is going to crumble now.
Sal great video ... if I am going to be preparing mud shower pan on my concrete floor do I first place liner on concrete floor then mud over liner and slope... The reason I ask is I notice you do it differently along with some different steps when working with a wood base thanks
Vinyl liner needs a preslope before installing, so watch these two videos for a full understanding of how and why. czcams.com/video/p8xsx3316IU/video.html and czcams.com/video/Fjm_6A6lj5Q/video.html the drain is different in this one but the steps are the same.
Thank you for the video!
I have few questions; what is the hight would you recommend to leave for the drainage before putting mud in? Second, should I use water proving system before or after putting mud? And finally, I have 5' by 10' shower so I'm planning raise my perimeter for a pitch 1.25 inches; do you think it is enough? Or what would you recommend?
My grate that screws into the base seems too loose …is it meant to be loose because it’s square or should I use some Teflon tape or pipe dope?
Do you use the same mortar for second layer?
Sorry if I missed this, but don’t you need some wire mesh in there to stop it cracking?
Okay, confession time. I think I put in too much Portland cement, which I read was good for the mix with the sand topping.
I took out the old. It was exactly soft as pie crust, but it did chunk out in 20 minutes.
I cleaned up and redid it in sand topping only. You were right, the second time was way easier.
Thanks you are awesome
Question Sal, Sand Topping Quickcrete and Portland Cement, ratio 3-1..is this correct?
Sal,
Love your videos. When mixed like you showed how long do you have to work with the mud before it starts to set up? This is my first shower and I'm sure the deck will take me a little while.
Thanks
You have plenth of time, don't rush, but don't take all day. Mix a smaller amount at first if you think it might be an issue, you can always mix more
The rubber liner is the gray thing with the writing and the lines on it. you can spray water if you like but it is not necessary, the mud will set if it is mixed correctly.
The purpose of the shower pan is to stop water that penetrates into the mud bed from going any further. I am assuming that you have a vinyl liner, if it is wet and the water in it is going through the weep holes and down the drain, then it is functioning as designed. It seems to me that your bigger problem is that your backing for the tile is green board, it should be something water safe like Durok. Not knowing any specifics of your shower I would say if the leak is fixed then no need to wait.
I completed my pre-slope using what you have shown and it worked great, thanks. I noticed you have put in the Durock over the liner before doing the final mud floor. I'm using a product called DensSheild for the walls. Is it OK to install the walls over the liner before doing the mud floor (as you did with the Durock) or would the DensSheild wick up water through the mud floor? Also how thick shoiuld the mud floor be? I'd like it to be thinner than your showing so would 1.5 inches be OK? Thanks again for such good instruction.
First pre-slope, (see video on that) then rubber membrane (see video on that), and then the mud as shown in this video. I have a ton of videos, many of them show some waterproofing, but not one specific to that
great video, i understand the 1/4 per foot but how do you decide the height at the drain? is there any rule of thumb like the mud has to be atleast 1/2" thick at the drain or something?
excellent question the minimum thickness at drain should be 1" ive been building showers for 32 years
@piero serrano Indid not forget it, it is not required nor is it recommended. the purpose of the liner is to direct any water that gets through the mud to the weep holes at the drain. bonding the mud to the liner will only inhibit that function. I also find it doubtful that the thinset would actually stick to the liner.
My understanding is the dura rock or cement board is suppose to end above the pan I saw a video where the guy tore open a shower that failed and the dura rock was wicking water up rotting out the studs behind it. I plan on using redguard for my pan liner and also on the studs around the shower. Also, when I had the plumber put in the drain he was suppose to center it. It is a 5x5 shower. However I noticed he did not allow for the curb width, in other words the drain is about 4" off center. Is this going to be a big problem when I put in the preslope?
Hi Sal. Thanks for all the help you're given me! On my top layer of mud, I goofed and set my drain a little too low. I had to do a little grinding around the drain with my cement disk on a grinder so I could unscrew it. The cuts were about 1/4" deep and were right up against the plastic (square Oatey drain). Can I fill these depressions in with thinset, or should I mix up a small amount of sand/portland cement to fill them in up to the proper level? I like the idea of packing them in with sand/portland cement but will it bond to mud that has set up? Thanks again!
Thinset i think would be the better choice, so tgat it will adhere to the existing cement.
***** That sounds good. I'll even things up with some twinset. It's not a big volume that I had to remove. Thanks for all of your help!
I like the video work also. I want to learn how to speed up work the like you did. What kind of set up do you have, or do you hire out the video work. P.S. I followed your instructions! I have completed 2 nice Shower pans. Thanks.
Simple video editing.
Thanks for these videos and looking forward to you coming to see what you can do for our project. One question: if you have 1/4' per foot slope, and you have a level perimeter, what happens with a rectangle? What happens if you measure from the corner to the drain? How is it that it all comes out to 1/4" per 1' ?
+Dan Albert The 1/4" per foot is from the furthest wall, the shorter distances will be at a steeper slope, Minimum needs to be about 1/4".
Sal
you the man. your video was very informative and if i had the cash I would fly you down to lufkin texas for supervision of my shower. I was wondering if you put the should complete the walls before you put in the mud for the drain?
hope all is well
Billy Jack
+Billy jack You were coherent up until you asked the question, then i lost you, can you rephrase.