How to install mud in a tile shower floor Method 2
Vložit
- čas přidán 8. 11. 2013
- SUBSCRIBE Learn how tile the right way
How to install mud in a shower pan for a tile shower stall. In this video I give a second method on how to install mud in a shower pan that differs from another method I used in another video I uploaded. Either method will work I recommend watching both to determine which will be best to use if you intend to use this video as a guide on how to install your mud shower floor. When installing a tile shower, whether it is ceramic, marble travertine or any other tile product, a mud base will be required. Mud also known as deck mud, is a mixture of sand and Portland cement mixed to a ratio that will create a solid foundation for the tile which will be installed on it. The deck mud is mixed with water to a dump consistence which will allow the deck mud to hold its shape when pressed into a ball. The mud must be pitcher towards the drain so that a slope of at least ¼" per foot is achieved. The ratio of sand and Portland cement is usually 4:1 or 5:1. I usually use "Quikrete" sand topping mix, which as far as I know, has a ratio which is a little richer than needed, but is suitable for a shower pan and can be "cut" to a leaner mixture by adding more sand.. The method I employ to install my mud in shower pan is to create a level and flat perimeter around the base of the shower walls which is at the correct height in relation to the drain, and then fill the middle part of the shower pan screeding down to the drain with the proper pitch. The mud is shaped with a wooden trowel, steel trowel, level and other pieces of straight wood lengths cut to the required lengths. In this video I demonstrate the technique I use to install a shower mud pan base. There are other methods that can be used, but this is one of the ways I have used installed many shower bases. All tile installed by Sal DiBlasi, Elite-tile Company, in the Boston North Shore area. This video contains affiliate links, which means I will receive a small commission if you click on the product link.
#tile #transformthetrade #howtotile #installingtile #howtoinstalltile #Schlutersystems #TCNA
☕ Buy me a coffee ☕
www.buymeacoffee.com/saldibs2
🙂 This is my Amazon Store 🙂 www.amazon.com/shop/saldiblasi
💲1 PDF Floor installation guidelinessowl.co/s/wWd2d 💲1
Channel Store / @saldiblasi
👍 Patreon / saldiblasi 👍
CZcams Channel / saldibs
Facebook
/ 56681633342
Website
www.elitetileco.com/
Twitter
/ saldiblasi1
Instagram
/ saldiblasi1
National Tile Contractors Association
tile-assn.site-ym.com/
👇 Some of my favorite Tools 👇
Float amzn.to/2tdEpN2
Rubbing Stone amzn.to/2QrgRfh
Notched Trowel 1/4 x 1/4 x 1/4-inch amzn.to/36bq5mQ
Notched Trowel 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2-Inch amzn.to/2Q5e90g
Notched Trowel 1/4 x 3/8 x 1/4-Inch amzn.to/39j1caB
Super Dust Collector - WaleTale amzn.to/2MDuVkK
Black Nitrile Gloves - 6 mil amzn.to/2SJQ6FZ
Margin Trowel amzn.to/352MYHx
Mortar Mixer amzn.to/2ZxYqtF
4in Sandpaper for Stone Polishing amzn.to/2ZB2skT
Polishing Rubber Backing Pad amzn.to/2srikdy
Montolit 63P3 24 Inch Tile Cutter amzn.to/2MDoFtl
DEWALT Wet Tile Saw amzn.to/2QqpO8O
Rubi Thinset mixer amzn.to/39VmNWV
Opt into NTCA’s VIP Text Messaging program for training opportunities.
Text “NTCA” to 31996 or Visit widget.smsinfo.io/v2/ae58812b...
For Industry Professionals only - Jak na to + styl
I'm a veteran of the tiling industry and think your videos are a great way for any professional tile installer to hone their craft. Great videos, your a pros pro Sal.
Thanks. look into Tile geeks, facebook.com/groups/TileGeeks/ you will thank me.
man, i could watch hrs and hrs of these videos. It's just so relaxing to see this type of stuff in action.
Sal, it's pleasure to watch a real pro work. Respect!
good job man. I like your way to describe thinks.
On Monday I will try your method to put mud.
Love your videos Sal. Think I must have nearly watched them all now. I'm a tile installer in the UK. I have learnt a lot from your videos. Certain things are done the same over here but other things I have never come across such as mud trays and kerbed showers. They are either rare or don't exist over here. Either way it's good see how things are done differently and learn new things.
Yes we do some things a bit different, others the same.
Thanks Sal! As a homeowner / DIY-er, this was very helpful. I used deck mud from the local big-box store, so didn't have to pre-mix. I've never worked with mud as dry as this and it worked great! I wouldn't have known to do this. Respectfully, I have only one suggestion. When I started troweling the surface, I switched to a 14" pool float instead, it is a little more flexible and the rounded corners made it much easier for me (non-professional tile guy) to grade the slope around the drain and gave me less worry about catching a sharp corner on the liner.
Pool float????
You do good work Sal, thanks for the videos
you are welcome
You're the best.
Awesome video thanks
Great video..........Thanks
4 to 1 or 5 to 1 are the preferred mixes for shower floors. Also make sure you dry pack your cement, others fully wet the cement which is NOT what you want. Wetting the cement means shrinkage + lots of wait time to cure! You need it wet enought just to form. Your cement is not waterproof people, that's what the liner is made for.
thanks for the vidéo i learn à lot
Thanks for the video. What did you cover the drain with?
Hi Sal, Great video -- I noticed that in this video and method 1 both curbs were wrapped with Durock. Does this mean that screw in the durock on top of the liner and then water-proof the corners/seams? I've seen other videos with mudded curbs. What do you advise?
Yes waterproof the curb thoroughly, inside piece of Durock screws at the very top only, the mud will hold the lower part in place, if you are not going to waterproof the curb, then you have to go the mud curb rout.
Very nice!! Is the one with the red handle a wooden trowel? Thanks
Hi Sal was wondering if there is a ratio as far as actual space(measurement of shower) and how many bags of sand topping mix?
So you do the pan first then hang your foam board or board of choice?
Thank you, those videos were informative. For Durock seams and for Schluter liner, do yo use unmodified or modified or it doesn't matter?
Installing the Schluter Membrane on the Mud , unmodified, however Schluter now makes its" own thinset Called All Set that is modified and can be used for everything.
Thanks for your video Sal but I am having a problem with the cement drying out the next day and crumbling . I mix it as you demonstrated and it sets up fine but the next day it is crumbly in areas and very dry. Is it not mixed well enough or the wrong kind of quickrete masonary mix?, Thx
Mark Larue Use Sand topping mix, or if you can find it Deck mud, or make your own 4 parts sand to 1 part Portland cement. You either mixed it too dry, did not mix it evenly or did not pack it well enough. It will take a few days to cure and get hard, but if you have sandy spots, the cause is probably one of the reasons i mentioned above.
Thanks for the videos, like your method. A level tile line on the bottom is where it's at. Wondering what you seal the deck mud with, like on this copper pan, with no weep holes?
Usually Aquadefense, Hydroban, or Hydraflex
Sal, Thanks for this video! A couple quick questions - - the concrete mix being so dry seems to be an easier way to form it, - how long do you have to work with this type of mixture before it begins to set up? do we need to put any additional water on top to do a final float and get good bonding capacity within the concrete, or is it good as is (packed down)?
Also, do you have any guestimate on how much water you used with your two bags of concrete and 1/2 bag of sand?
Thanks again!
Deck mud is supposed to be mixed this dry, because it makes it easier to form. Plenty of time to work with, it usually only takes an hour or so to do the pan in the shower anyway. I would say that 2 bags of sand topping mix and half a bag of sand will take about a gallon to a gallon and a half of water. You can sprinkle some water on top when the pan is done, but if you mixed and packed it correctly there is no need.
Thank you SO much for the quick response!!
Sal for starters just want to say your tile work is amazing and I always refer to your videos for tips on installing and just curious what size of steel trowel you prefer for screeding your shower pans and also if you use a flat trowel or curved trowel. Any input would be greatly appreciated thanks!!
+Jake Malek I usually use the steel trowel to smooth off and finish the mud and it is just a regular size trowel 11x 4.5 inches (could be 12x4 inches, come to think f it i have never measured it) i also use straight pieces of wood screeds to pitch to the drain of the correct length and i also use the steel or wood trowel for packing the mud, but bottom line i use anything that works.
Thanks for the quick response Sal! I can only imagine how busy you are and how many questions you get each day. thanks again!
Sal, this is a great instructional video. Can you make one showing the next step after installing the membrane? For example, putting the board around the curb, and the board on the walls? This video already has the boar on the walls.
You might find this series of video s helpful czcams.com/play/PLiB6hq5lQ3h2T96DP_LdSbULklkRaqYPr.html
Thank you! I couldn't find these yesterday! We are buying a home in NM. The shower is iffy. I can stick my fingers under the bottom edge of the tile and wall. I can't feel any plastic and the water drains past the drain into the wall. If I hire this to be fixed, I now know what to watch for making sure its done right! I can tell by your videos, that the shower will need to be completely removed and rebuild.
Unfortunately 80% of shower are built incorrectly
Thanks again. Thankfully, the house was a summer home and not used more than twice in the last year. So, water damage behind the wall hopefully is minimal.
Sal, I have watched most of your videos because I was an apprentice flooring installer. One thing I was wondering is, do you have any tips on how to pick up speed with regards to setting tile. I am now on my own and I find that I am very very slow at the tile trade in particular. Any suggestions?
I’m sure you’re pretty quick now. But like anything speed comes with practice and mastery of the craft.
Great Sal. With the Schluter drain, the grate adjusts, so you don't have to do that final step of measuring the tile against the drain, do you? Thanks so much. This video was more detailed.
I aim to please.
I appreciate you, and your teaching videos! Thanks again!
Hey Sal great videos first of all! Question. Can you set your final slope before the durock? The reason I'm asking is because I would hate to puncture a hole in the pvc liner accidentally. You know dropping the screw gun, screws, durock or whatever on the liner. Thanks!
You can, but just cover the liner with something to protect it.
+Sal DiBlasi okay thanks
Hey Sal just wondering why you choose to use such a dry mix as opposed to one with more water?? You find it easier to form? Is this why or are there other reasons
This is how you work with deck mud, it is only supposed to be damp. It is easier to work with , it does not stick to the trowel, it keeps the shape you give it, etc.
Sal, so Durock on walls will go first before you pour the mud pre-slope?
Preslope, Liner Cement board, Mud bed for tile.
kan u put the durorock on the walls
first on a shower. An than make ur concrete shower pan.
hey i am currentlu learning how to do this for work and i seen so many methods. what are your thouhts on using a layer of mortar right before setting the cement?
+Jose Miranda usually you do that when going over concrete.
+Sal DiBlasi i heard this helps bond the base to the sub floor or concrete better?
Sal, how much time do you have to work with the mud after mixing it ? I am doing a shower pan that is 39" X 39" should I mix all the mud at once or should I do it in batches?
Do it in batches, I have plenty of time when I do it, I have never had mud dry up on me because I could not use it up in time.
thank you sal
Hi, Sal. Thanks for all these great videos, it's been an invaluable source for me. Yesterday I did the pre-slope of my 60" X 30" shower pan. The sand mix I used had aggregates in it, some large enough to use around weep holes(I didn't). Third bag I opened was perfect,nice and smooth, and I could cull out what rock was in it easily. The brand was AllStar sand mix from Menards. Really ticked me off. Now I guess I have to sift the mix for the pan with a screen. This ever happen to you? Would love to take the rest back but not really keen on lugging 60# bags! just wanted to tell folks to stay away from AllStar, if you agree. Thanks!
Never had that happen, if it is sand topping mix there should be no stones in it.
Kinda what I thought..Big Box stores forya!!
Hey Sal, great videos! I attempted to install the pan, but the top ended up being very crumbly and portions broke apart with 1 inch deep holes. Needless to say I removed it and am ready to start over. I only used the Sakrete Sand Topping mix, before seeing this video. Any ideas why that what of happened and how to prevent that on my next attempt?
Most times when that happens it is because the mud was a bit too dry or it was not packed down properly. Make sure that the mud will hold its shape in a ball after you mix it, but still does not release any water.
Sal DiBlasi .. I followed the pointers and it turned out 100% better this time. thanks!!!
Sal, can I mix my sand topping mix with a drill and cement mixing tool, or do I have to use a tub and trowel?! Thanks
The typical paddle you use to mix thinset will struggle, you need a mixer like this one for mud amzn.to/2I6rSmn
@@SalDiBlasi thanks again SaL!
I've been in the trade 27 years I do it the same way I bet u have callouses on your knuckles like me lol
I know these videos are old, so I am hoping you are still monitoring youtube. I am in the process of building a mud shower pan but my shower is large. 3x6. The drain will not be centered. How do you suggest I work to get the edge of the mud level all the way around with different pitches. will the shorter lengths be a steeper pitch and the longer lengths 1/4?
Here is an updated version of the mud floor czcams.com/video/dAdnaasPmGg/video.html Keep the perimeter level and screed down to the drain. Have your furthest point set at 1/4" per foot, all the rest will be a bit steep as you get closer to the drain.
Hi i'm trying to make a shower on a concrete slab...If I understand correctly I have to make a pre slope before installing the vinyl liner and another after the liner is in....is this correct?
Exactly, but if you are going over concrete, this video might be more relevant How to install a shower pre slope or pre pitch on concrete
***** do you have to put the thinset down on slab before preslope? is it regular thinset
Yes, this might help czcams.com/video/5GmutV5AOAU/video.html
But if I have concrete floor and use Schluter shower pan/preslope, can walls be first? And then waterproof? I am not using liner or doing preslope with topping mix
If you are doing Schluter, watch this czcams.com/video/G21hjKreXds/video.html and then This czcams.com/video/Z2p5ZBJHp0k/video.html
Is the perimeter hard almost when you start to fill the inner part? Seemed like when you went and screeted near it, that it didn't bother it much.
+Joseph Chavez It will be a bit harder than the rest, but not dry yet.
Hi sal your work and vids are great.I did my second layer of mud in my shower but some of the mix is crumbly and loose in a few areas.what would be the right product to use to fill and skim coat needed areas?thanks
+Jason Brent Just use some thinset if it is just a skim coat.
+Sal DiBlasi Thanks Sal, appreciate the help!
+Sal DiBlasi sorry to bother you again but just not sure whether or not to rip the floor out and start over or what? Some of the holes are all the way down to the liner but about 75 percent of floor is solid.what should I do?
If you are not sure don't risk it. It is easy enough to take it out and start over.
thanks again!
Bare copper shower pan would be bad ass
Can i use Cement board over the wood subfloor, then the rubber membrane over that then build the cement slope?
+Joseph Russo Does not matter how the preslope is built as long as it is present, sloped to the weep holes and stable.
Hi Sal, Do you have to do anything special to get the corners of each side to bond? Thanks.
Sorry, I don't understand your question.
You're doing one side at a time. When you do the second, third, and fourth side, you don't have to churn some of the mud from the corner so that each side sticks to the other? Thank you.
No, not enough time passes for it to become an issue, all the mud is still fresh, if you let it set, then you would have to use a bonding agent.
Got it. Thanks.
Hey Sal, I used this same mix in my shower bed, but in the corners is was really soft and crumbled after it dried. What was the reason for this not enough water or to much?
+devon armstrong Either too dry or my guess is you did not pack it down enough.
+Sal DiBlasi thank you sir!
When and where would I install the underfloor electric heat in this process?
+hobie0001 Not always the same, depends on what kind of underlayment you intend to use.
What are your thoughts on pre-pitch, quick-pitch and kirb-perfect for do it yourself people? A pro has these abilities but newbs do not
I have never used them, but if they will hep you, why not?
It seems I may have mixed my topping mix too dry is there any solution other than removing it and starting over? thnx
sir_awesomest Best to start over, should be easy enough to remove. This is a common error so don't be hard on yourself.
Sal, I just did my first pre-slope yesterday. After it dried, I noticed today I had a few low spots in the 4 to 1 deck mud I used. My overall pitch towards the drain is fine, just a few low spots here and there. I don't want to install my pan liner yet until I fill in all of the low spots. What is the best way to fill in the low spots without having to tear out everything I did and start over?
Just patch them with some thinset if they are not deep. Since it will be under the liner and another layer of mud and tile, it will be fine.
@@SalDiBlasi That's what I was thinking. Just wanted to double check with you. Thanks for the fast response. BTW, I love your videos. Please keep doing what you're doing.
Sal DiBlasi morning
where did you buy the copper liner? I mean is it sold at local hardware store?
+bluekeet Custom made, but not the best choice for a liner. It is hard to get people away from them in my area, some insist on them.
Just curious why not use the quick pitch system to to get a mud pan?
Why spend the money for something you don't need, you will get a better job with a level perimeter if you do it this way.
My top layer is strong enough to stand on but you can scratch it with your fingernails after 3 days, the mix was extremely wet when "poured". Should we just wait and see if it sets up after a week or something?
I can't say how good it is without seeing it ,but if you are in doubt, start over to be safe.
Sal DiBlasi couldn't you have just lied to me and said its fine lol. Thanks for the consultation, your videos are very helpful as well
I noticed the wall board is down below the surface of the mud pan. I thought there was supposed to be a gap of 1/4"-1/2"?
do the tile sit flush with the drain or underneath?
Always flush
How think should the bed be
I think the bed should be at least 1 1/4" at the thinnest point, I think😜
What is the purpose of using a level on an unlevel surface?
The perimeter is level
What is the ratio of the additional sand to the topping mix.
A 60 pound bag of sand topping mix is at a ratio of 3 to 1 so to get a ratio of 4 to 1 add 15 pounds of sand for every bag of sand topping mix or for 5 to 1 add 30 pounds
Thank you Sal, what would the ratio be if you measure the amounts by volume instead of weight?
Ratio is the same, in a bag of sand topping the ratio is 3 to 1, so there are a total of 4 parts, you can figure it from there.
whats the maximum depth you may have said it and i missed it
+twister563 Well i really never thought of it, but why would you want to go more than a few inches at the most.
the mud floor is sloped, but the water barrier is not sloped. The water that gets through the grout and the mud floor over time will come to rest on a flat surface without sloping to the drain. Isn't that a problem? isn't the pan supposed to have a slope?
You are right about the preslope. And if you go to my youtube Chanel, there you will find a video where i show exactly how to install a preslope on this very same shower.
*****
hi, thanks for the reply... I will watch the preslope video right now .
***** Actually now that i see which shower this is, the pan is copper, so there are no weep holes, and that is why i always waterproof the mud.
Hey Sal, how come you are breathing so heavily after mixing the mud. Just kidding. It has its rewards working alone but sometimes it sucks. If it was easy anyone could do it.
Copper pan liner? The lime in the cement will corrode copper in no time. That's why you always have to lag copper pipework if it's in contact with cement based products.
Copper pans have been used in the Boston area forever, and they have lasted just as long. That being said, they are not the best choice. I have always avoided them when I could, but a few years ago decided that I would just not allow them in any bathroom that I install.
I know this is a late comment but there is no lime in this Sand Topping mix or traditional deck mud, just sand and portland cement so there wouldn't ever be a reaction with the copper pan...
wheres part 3?
+bluekeet This is a stand alone video.
How do you know how high from the floor the drains sticks out?
For mud I like to have it at least 1 inch and 1/4 above the pan, but depending on the type of drain, type of liner and whether you need a preslope or not, the height can change.
@@SalDiBlasi thank you sir
Red stripe motar dries to fast
Not if you know what you are doing, plenty of time.
It looks as if it's worth using a copper pan.
This method takes too long. We do it in less than 20 minutes with a better mix.
+Norm Yee Interesting how so many installers are so worried about how fast they can do it and want to rush through to just get it done. Time is not the only consideration, when it is, quality suffers, and i was not aware that it was a race to finish.
+Sal DiBlasi Where is the video to show the world your better way of doing it, i would like to see it.