Two easy ways, to build your shower floor.
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 29. 01. 2021
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Two easy methods to install mud in a shower pan for a tile shower stall. When installing a tile shower, whether it be ceramic, marble travertine or any other tile product, a mud base will be required. Mud also known as deck mud, is a mixture of sand and Portland cement mixed to a ratio that will create a solid foundation for the tile which will be installed on it. The deck mud is mixed with water to a dump consistency which will allow the deck mud to hold its shape when pressed into a ball. The mud must be pitcher towards the drain so that a slope of at least 1|4" per foot is achieved. The ratio of sand and Portland cement is usually 4:1 or 5:1. I usually use Mapei 4to1 but "Quikrete" sand topping mix, which as far as I know, has a ratio which is a little richer than needed, can be cut by adding some sand to make it more suitable for a shower pan. The method I employ to install my mud shower pan, is to create a level and flat perimeter around the base of the shower walls which is at the correct height in relation to the drain, and then fill the middle part of the shower pan screeding down to the drain with the proper pitch. The mud is shaped with a wooden trowel, steel trowel, level and other pieces of straight wood lengths cut to the required lengths. In this video I demonstrate two techniques I use to install a shower mud pan base. There are other methods that can be used, but these are the simplest and easiest methods I have found
All tile installed by Sal DiBlasi, Elite-tile Company, in the Boston North Shore area. This video contains affiliate links, which means I will receive a small commission if you click on the product link.
#tile #transformthetrade #howtotile #installingtile #howtoinstalltile #Schlutersystems
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Sal playing in the sand. Always making it look easy. Great job!!!
Showing step by step how to float your pan provides such insight to the process. The important brain tasking that takes place before you even mix the mud. I can always smell the 4-to-1 when you mix it in the videos. Haha. Good stuff, Sal. Giving back the knowledge is a huge gesture.
Thanks for watching my video.
4 to 1 smells like Fruit Loops
Love your videos Sal. A Setter at my first tile setting job showed me your channel about 4 years ago and Im still learning things from your videos today!
That is awesome!
Never thought I would say this to a guy, but I think I love you đ€Łđđ€ŁđYou are very patient with your profession and that my friend is a very rare now-a-days! But it's the patience that brings knowledge and knowledge that brings patience. That is very rare indeed. Thanks again Sal. You are very much appreciated!!
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It takes a real pro with many years of experience to make it look so easy! Thanks for posting!
Thanks for watching!
16:20, this is why Sal is a legend! Great tip putting tile in mix to help with leveling.
Thanks for watching my video.
Thank you for the detailed explanation and you experience teaching the guys behind you
You bet!
Perfect, thanks for the excellent tutorial Sal!
My pleasure!
The Norm Abram of tile. You even look kinda like Norm.
Thanks for the great content!
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Beautiful job.
Thanks for watching my video.
Anyone else watching this after they just did a 6x6 with a weird drain lay out and a bench in the way wishing they had a simple 3x2 shower build?! Lol . Thanks Sal love the vids . I wish I had patience to make for everyone
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You the Man!
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Good video! Liked!
Thanks for the visit
Wow man. You make it look so easy. Lol.
Thanks for watching my video.
Nice vid Sal
Thanks Isaac.
Good morning, nice job đȘ
Morning!
Sal, I love your content. Really saves us DIYers lots of headaches. Top-notch work here, sir. I couldn't find any content in your other videos to answer this question, so please forgive me for posting the question, knowing how busy you are. I used the 4x8 kerdi boards for my walls, but they didn't go all the way to the ground. I have about 3/4" gap between the end of the board and the plywood substrate. I plan to do a mud bed just like you're doing here, so that void should be filled up with the mud. Is that correct to assume? or should I rip down a scrap piece of kerdi to fill that gap?
ĐĐŸĐ»ĐŸĐŽĐ”Ń ŃĐ°Đș ĐŽĐ”ŃжаŃŃ ĐŸŃĐ”ĐœŃ Ń ĐŸŃĐŸŃĐŸ!!!!
Thanks for watching my video.
Hi Sal thanks again for sharing your knowledge. Do you have a preferred deck mud you like to use?
Trash bag for a bed liner?
What's next, cardboard for drywall shims?
Lol great job đ
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Super
Also Sal, which video would show how you waterproofed the pan? Thanks.
One area of my shower pan has a low spot and some flaking in the deck mud. Is there something (such as thinset) that I can use to fill this in? I used the Mapei 4:1 for the deck mud. I am using the Kerdi membrane for the waterproofing. Thank you Sal
I saw you have a laser, I set my laser by the curb and measure the height of the drain, (letâs say 4.1/2â then and I add the 1/4â per foot to the corners, which it will be in your case 3.3/4â all around.. that way the 4 sides are perfectly level regardless of the plywood floor .. and when I start with the walls I know all my first row is level (1/16â my very)
If thinset is recommended for the solution, what type do you recommend? Should it be the same that I use to apply the Schluter membrane after thinset application over deck mud is dry? Thanks Sal. I have watched so many of your videos that my kids are always quoting you!
Sal, what frank and model tile saw did you use in large format tile floor video? Thanks Dave
Really enjoyed this Sal, thank you! Will you be sharing the rest of the install as well?
I actually installed that shower quite some time ago, not going to be a video of that shower. sorry
@@SalDiBlasi Thanks for the reply sal! I was mostly curious as to how you finished the curb. There seems to be a lot of different viewpoints on how best to construct the curb using schluter materials, and making it strong enough for foot traffic and anchor support for glass panel mounts.
If you could dedicate a video to curb construction and glass panel installation, that would be amazing.
As many others have mentioned, another great video, Sal. Thank you for sharing your decades of experience. I have two questions. First, do you use any additive in your deck mud and do you see any advantage to doing so. I assume not since I didnât see it in the video. Second, I notice you didnât have the top of the threshold sheathed with Kerdi board. Was that to keep it from getting damaged as you did the mud bed? Or would you use a different material on the top of the threshold since it gets significant point loads from foot traffic after installation? Again, thanks for teaching us how to do it right.
No additive in the mud, not needed, I usually seal up the entire shower after the mud is in. No banding was done at that point.
Thanks Sal.
Great video, as always, you're a master. My question is why mud? I schluter pan is $100 and takes 20 minutes (including the inside/outside corners). Is there a significant difference in the finished product? I prefer the feel of tile on a schluter pan myself, and it doesn't get freezing cold in winter.
The pans are great if you have a level substrate that needs no doctoring to make it suitable, if the tray does not have to be modified to fit the size and drain location. If they are modified then you no longer have a level perimeter as you cut into the bowel of the tray. . Mud will fit any size, shape, drain location and sub floor condition. It can also be adjusted to whatever thickness is needed and has no size restrictions for tile. If you can just buy a tray and stick it in, yes it is faster, but if you have to modify anything in any way, mud becomes much more attractive and only takes a couple of hours.
Great Job!! I still find it hard to price out jobs. Anyone have a price list on how they calculate their jobs? Thanks
Sal Great job and video and info!! Sal In the winter time is your shower floor real cold?
No more than usual, warms up as soon as the hot water hits it.
Nice video! I would of that you would have had to put something underneath the board, on top of the mud shower floor to make sure any water will drain and not get behind the walls. Does the deck mud bond to the kerdi-board for a water tight seal?
Thanks for the video!
Mud will be waterproofed with Kerdi Membrane.
For anyone wondering whatâs not shown is the step to waterproof the dry mud bed with a membrane like Kerdi, which Iâm sure sal used, or a liquid membrane (not sanctioned by schluter).
Btw, for diyâers out there itâs easier and less time to buy the schluter Kerdi shower pan. Itâs presloped and waterproof. If your shower doesnât match itâs size thereâs ways to modify it.
Trays are great for many applications, but sometimes mud is quicker if you have an odd shape, very uneven floor, or a difficult drain location.
@@SalDiBlasi Yep, and I've done a few showers with the kerdi pan but sometimes wish I would have done mud. Number one issue is the kerdi pans are sloped the bare minimum, so if your floor is off level a smidge then the water may not drain right. So with the kerdi pans the floor really has to be level. But you know that.
I'm a little confused is this the pre -slope for pan liner or can we skip that step?
Hi thanks for wonderful video, just subscribed today.. quick question on concrete slab do you recommend to have Tar or it is not needed. Also on concrete slab do you recommend water proof on floor, i understand that we need to for walls
On concrete you need to bond the dry pack to the concrete, waterproofing the shower floor is always critical, but the system you use determines where the waterproofing is in the shower assembly. A bonded system will have the waterproofing directly under the shower floor tile, a "Water in, Water out" system will have the waterproofing below the top layer of drypack where the vinyl liner is located. Be sure to understand the difference before you proceed.
Great! Sal what can I use to practice with before going in to the bathroom? Will sand work? Iâll make a frame in the garage and practice but what could I use?
Sure, sand will work, but the real thing will feel different.
Hi Sal, I'm writing from Canada. We're renovating our master bathroom and we can't find the Mapei 4 to 1 mud bed mix anywhere, not even Amazon.ca! Can you recommend a good substitute please? We really enjoy your videos....they are SO very helpful. Thank you so much for giving back from your trade!
Sand topping mix from a box store will work, but it is a bit rich, it usually has a ratio of 3 to 1 sand to Portland cement, you can add sand to it to bring it closer to 4 to 1 or even 5 to 1. Or you can just make your own by buying sand and cement and mixing to the correct ratio.
Can also cut strips of foam board and screw on at grade around the perimeter - then very fast to place drypack since top of strip is grade and old eyes don't have to strain to see the line.
You mean like this czcams.com/video/O-fbqdoE9ec/video.html
@@SalDiBlasi haha, yes!
I think you might want to try an angle grinder with a metal wheel.
Great video! With Schluter in the rest of the shower, why did you decide to go with a mortar base? Is it significantly cheaper and a pre-sloped Schluter pan?
Yes, all Schluter, I always do mud.
@@SalDiBlasi Whatâs the biggest advantage you see in mud versus Schluterâs pre-sloped pan?
Does anyone know the working time on sand /topping mix?
Sal, thank you. I donât see the link for the mud pan over concrete substrate. Can you share it?
In the cards czcams.com/video/Fjm_6A6lj5Q/video.html
What about hot mop before dry pack??
I didn't think about being able to put the foam backer boards down into the pan since they're waterproof they won't wick up the wetness
If I wanted to practice building a shower floor do you think building a wood box mock up and using wet sand would be a good way to practice?
Sure try it
Damp sand would work great for a mock-up/practice mud bed. I always tell people it's kinda like building a sandcastle. If the sand is too dry it won't pack and hold it's shape, but if it's too wet it won't work either. But when it's just right you can build a masterpiece, same theory goes for shower floor mud.
great video! the shower looked the size of a telephone booth and a tight space to working. i'm curious to know the dimensions of the shower.
Yes small shower maybe 36 x 42 inches, don't remember exactly.
Sal, another great video! I truly get a sense of satisfaction watching you do this. Does it also provide that feeling for you too? In meaning does this method over a foam pan give you more a feeling of pride and joy? You must have made some awesome sand castles when you were a kid đ! Iâm soaking everything in!!
Always a good feeling to stand back and look at a job well done.
Mr Sal diblasi is over the wood the mud and it's a safe that technic whit plastic thanks for your reply
Yes it is a slip sheet.
Sal, can you say what kind of (plasterers) rubber bucket you're using?
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Sal Iâve seen other videos where they use pvc liner 40 mil and they donât use the metal lath. Can you explain the difference of what you did here vs the pvc liner and the lath?
This is a sealed system using a bonding flange.
Sal, How much time do you have available to work with the deck mud before it starts to harden up?
Mix one or two bags at a time, you will have all the time you need.
@@SalDiBlasi Not sure if I am going to use a line drain or a center drain but the shower dimensions 6ft x 4 ft in our master bath. The technical data sheet does not say how much open time I have once mixed.
Plenty of time.
I saw your other videos explaining the uncoupling membrane method before watching this and now I'm a bit confused. Can you use the uncoupling membrane method to build the shower floor? If so, will fitting the shower drain work in the same way as this method?
Sorry don't understand the question.
@@SalDiBlasi Sorry, I mean to ask, can you use the uncoupling membrane method inside of the shower as the foundation floor instead of using the mud method?
@@harveydavis2311 not sure if this helps, but the mud method is what gives you slope from perimeter to drain. I think the uncoupling membrane is just a flat sheet and on it's own provides no slope. Also I think the plastic bag he uses works as an uncoupling membrane to keep the mud bed from bonding to the plywood subfloor. Keep in mind, I'm a complete novice and only know what I think I know from watching Sal's and Tile Coach's videos.
Sal Di Blasi waterproofing shower floor
Iâve got shower with penny tile coming up. I donât see the Shluter base supporting it as a mud bed would.
Limitation of foam pans is tiles no smaller than 2x2 inches.
What was the benefit for not using the schluter pans..... Only because the floor was not level. Would a self leveler not be the option to use the pan?
Mud was the easiest solution, by the time you level the floor and cut in the tray, the mud would be done.
Sal, get yourself some rights and left snips!,stop the struggle lol
Snips just needed some lubrication.
What kind of cement are you using?
Go to 12:52 to see the mud/cement
Quick way for cutting metal lathe is on the ground with a 2x4 as a straight edge and a grinder with a cheap diamond blade. It's quick and easy đ€·đ»ââïž
Thanks
HEY Sal would you consider taking on a helper for a couple weeks for free ? I've been a residential contractor in SC since 1990. but i want to learn all i can about tile installation .I'm living in Virginia now I've never been to Boston but would love come work with you for a couple weeks at no charge to you!!
Sorry had that offer many times, the answer is always no. But there is plenty of free training available by most manufacturers and the NTCA. Go the their websites and look for Education.
Whats the point of the lath?
Long time subscriber (I'll never do any tile work but enjoy seeing it done) and I've wanted to say something multiple times but held off:
I have a terrible time hearing your soft voice because the volume is so low on your videos. Note that I turn the sound volume all the way up for watching you but still struggle to catch what you say a lot of the time. Is it possible for you to increase the volume a bit when you make the video?
Or perhaps, just speak a bit louder for us?
I have newer equipment now, this video was done on an older camera.
@@SalDiBlasi Great, looking forward to more interesting jobs documented
Hey bud great job đ .... where's the backer board from ?
what deck mud do you use?
Mapei 4to1, i show it in the video.
Didn't you watch the video! He showed it
Those planks as a substrate look pretty old and ruggedy and have space inbetveen at least just looking at the video. In person might be different. Am surprised that it was sufficient not to install something on top (plywood perhaps) to unifiy it all and make substrate more cohesive for whats coming on top. Any words of wisdom about that? As always thanks for selflessly sharing the trade!
If he screwed t down that would be sufficient. Between two layers of mud ,one being 2â I would sweat it.
The substrate is actually quite strong. Years ago I would install mud over very large areas built like this. Mud was an easy way to make it flat and level.
@@SalDiBlasi Much appreciated.
Just don't beat your curdi curb up in the process....I get your out east but you guys use block to build correct? Anyone heard of 4x4x16 & 1x4x16 to build curbs out your way? License contractors build confidence! Keep on keepen on!
I hope I just missed the video or videos prior to this one! Is this floor what you will stand on during as shower? With tile on it? No copper pan no membrane? You realize some people will see this and think you can just tile the walls and mud floor and start showering! I know I missed something!
No matter what I do there are those that will get it wrong.
This technique is simpler then the preslope, pan liner, final mud bed, etc. Single mud bed with slope then waterproof the dry mud with Kerdi or other sheet membrane, or liquid waterproofing. đ Even easier would be to spend the $100 and use the Kerdi shower pan.
I am confused with a garbage bag as a liner? Do you care to explain?
It is not a liner, it is a slip sheet for the mud. The waterproofing will be on top of the mud tied onto the bonding flange. This a sealed system, does not use a two stage drain and vinyl liner. Schluter type system.
@@SalDiBlasi Thanks for clarifying, I was not not aware that you will put a Schluter kit on top of that mudbed.
You shaved the beard! I thought you looked awesome with the beard! Great video though!
Actually this is footage from before, Still have the beard.
@@SalDiBlasi NICE!! Fear the beard!!
Did you forget water Proofing?đ
No, comes after the mud.
I love how you can hear the fartfan running in the background throughout this video. đ
You certainly are easily amused. SMH
@@vikings844 It's the little things in life that bring be joy. đ
Knowing that it's probably wired in with the light (because of 7' of 14/3) just ruins Sal's commentary
Why not just get a schleuter pan?
He mentioned the floor was unlevel so using a mud pan would take those areas out of the equation. I agree with you that the Schluter pan is a quick and easy way to pit in one, but using the mud pan technique is never a bad idea.
Thanks.
Kyle, in this case you would have to first install plywood to make the floor flat and level. A foam pan is great if you can get the exact size and drain location and you don't have to fix the subfloor. Mud will fit any size shower floor, drain location and floor condition.
You should at least put a half inch plywood over that subfloor.
No
Nice job brother, aka Machine gun Kelly.
A contractor garbage bag I would guess, like 3 MIL grade?
Anything really that is non absorbent will work. But yes that was a contractor trash bag.
@@SalDiBlasi I guessed right! So what's my prize?
@@plk5520 you now have access to over 800 videos on my channel. đ
Love your work I've never used dry mudd as a pan just Schulter pre slop pans this may be a dumb question but is that mudd pan water proof or do you have to use a waterproof membrane and if so what kind of membrane do you use thanks for the video, first time watching
Watch this czcams.com/video/Z2p5ZBJHp0k/video.html
@@SalDiBlasi thanks for getting back to me đ