My name is Michael with B&H Tile and Stone Group. I like to install Red Guard to the plywood first and let dry. Use the quick drying red guard. Mix a multipurpose thinset and apply the thinset to the red guard with a 1/4" notch trowel and add your mud to the top of the thinset. Cover your thinset completely with the mortar bed material to avoid stepping in the setting mortar. This allows for the floor to be waterproofed and the mud to have an attachment to the floor.
I found a rather excellent waterproofing membrane, FYI. It's called BondTAC. It's made in Canada, and a company called Gluetek sells it in New York (and ships it all over the country). It's a complete waterproofing elastomeric membrane, as well as an air/vapor barrier, and an extremely powerful adhesive. You can build your shower out of sheetrock, coat it with BondTAC, and it'll be permanently waterproof. Its adhesive properties allow it to bond powerfully with tile mastic as well.
The mud bed is also an uncoupler as well as a shower base. It's a good idea to put wire lath in the mud bed for added strength, however, it is not necessary. I agree with the reviewers who commented on this being an outdated system. Not only are they excessively heavy, they are prone to leaking. eventually the mud bed will become saturated with water and mildew will be the result of that. I also believe the additive is overkill in the pre pitching of the shower pan floor. As far as the bed itself which is on top of the membrane, it would be irresponsible to have additive placed in that mud. It will lead to latex leaching which will discolor the grout. The gentleman performing the work seems to be a highly qualified individual. Thank you. Jeff Zielke JTZ Professional Flooring
Also, if a curb is necessary, make sure you use a metal lath that you form in the field the shape and size of the curb. I usually cut an 11" wide by the length of the curb and place it over the pan. I place screws on the outside of the curb at the bottom. No penetrations on top or inside. Use a wall mud (a premix or sand, cement and lime) I use a cut piece of durock the size of the top of the curb. Usually 4.5" wide to form the curb. Make sure you pitch the top of the curb toward the inside.
You can apply the BondTAC directly to the plywood sub floor, and bypass the tar paper step - and it'll seal it far more effectively. Apply another coat prior to putting down the thin set / mastic for the tile to permanently prevent any water transmission into the base, and coat the walls and ceiling as well to ensure that no moisture will ever get through - you will never have to worry about the infamous "mold sandwich"!
Always, always, always, use a healthy bead of silicone to adhere the rubber membrane to the bottom flange prior to installing the hold down ring. Also, apply a bead beneath the hold down ring too. Make sure not to get any in the weep holes. a lot of people use the mosaic or 2x2 marble sheet goods. make sure to SEAL THE HELL out of the tile.
Our shower was bulit this way--believe me the professionals do it the best. Our "handyman" tried three times and failed. It's good to understnad howthey are doing it, but unless you are really good, I'd leave it to them!
@bob4friends I agree about the blocking, but it's not to support the weight of the mortar, but the liner itself. And, how else are you going to attach the clamping drain if you don't cut a hole in the liner? C'mon, give the video maker credit for installing a preslope at all. Most tile installers don't even know what that is.
Mr. Buffington, thank you very much for the video. I am going to do install one in the near future (maybe). I recently bought a house and the last owner just installed a new tile shower (DIY project for sure). There are no leaks when it runs normally (regular shower), but one time I placed a wash cloth over the drain so my son had a few inches of water to play in. When I lifted the cloth to "drain" the shower, I had water leak downstairs. I think the water creates a little pressure as all that water is draining through the P trap after the drain. When I opened up the ceiling and replicated the "leak" it looked like it was leaking from the bottom of the drain. After watching your video, Im wondering if the installer simply didn't silicone the vinyl to the actual drain. What are your thoughts on this? Is this normal? I don't want to tear a "new" shower out, but I also want to make sure it is done right. Thanks in advance for your help!
maybe for tiling i understand several layers for mortar when installing tiles onto the floor but for a porcelain shower pan or prefabbed, it really just needs to make sure your base is level. I mean you can look up bob vila videos with him using nothing as the base but subfloor
Woops, I should have watched this first.. I poured a concrete floor.. I'm a concrete specialist, so I hope it came out right.. I was wondering if RedGuard should be applied AS the tile adhesive, or before.
ok there is nothing outdated here but there is a step that he misses that is important . (a membrane is just as effective as a hot mop if it is installed correctly) in order these are the steps to take for a membrane to be up to code in california. first 2x6 or 8 inbetween all your wall studs. your pre slope has to pitch at a minimum of 1/4 in to the drain. let dry. your membrane must go up the wall a minimum of 6 in or more folded in corners no cuts. fasten at the top of two x six with staples nails or screws . cut the membrane to the inside of the drain next ADD A BEAD OF SILICONE ONLY ON THE UNDERNEATH SIDE OF YOUR CUTOUT IN BETWEEN THE MEMBRANE AND THE DRAIN. ADD THE CLAMP MAKE SMALL CUTS SO YOUR BOLTS CAN GO THROUGH AND TIGHTEN DOWN EVENLY .SCREW IN THE TOP OF THE DRAIN LEAVING ABOUT AN INCH OR INCH AND A HALF SPACE BETWEEN YOUR MEMBRANE AND THE DRAIN ITSELF . now you can dry pac your mud in around edges run a level from the wall to the drain you want a drop of 3/16 to 1/4 inch drop from your wall to your drain only no more than 1/4 inch or it wont feel right when standing on it. unscrew your drain to the size of tile your installing so its flush with your drain . check for drop adjust as needed and tile it.
why not put a membrane and use real cement board on the floor as the barrier and base to go over the membrane, screw in with backboard screws, apply thinset mortar as needed on that to level any areas and fill seams covering all the cement board. I feel like the more concrete or paper you lay the more problems occur. Your adding more work and more issues that could occur. Just speaking as an engineer.
Are you sure you would want to screw the board, which will in turn screw through the pan that will eventually leak? The whole purpose of the concrete be able to set the slope, and to have a solid base without having to attach it to anything.
Hey there! Have you heard related to the Tube Cash Exposure? I came across it on Google Search and read lots of phenomenal stuff about it. A lot of my friend also strongly recommend me to look at it
@MoeDuddly Have you watched the video? Tar paper is for the base of the preslope. Then the membrane goes down, at this point the pan is installed. This is really some low hanging fruit to keep from insulting you for this ill fated comment which...
If you are in the West Michigan area and in need of a Custom Frameless All Glass Shower Enclsoure check this out: czcams.com/video/eWYa8S227ig/video.html
the very first part of this was wrong. you dont just apply that morter on top of the paper you need to put hardboard down first to support the morter dip shits
![Shower Pan Installation [Part 2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bq1FukemkGc/mqdefault.jpg)
Dont see why people rip into you, as long as you stand behind your work its fine. I hot mop personally, but to each his own.
My name is Michael with B&H Tile and Stone Group. I like to install Red Guard to the plywood first and let dry. Use the quick drying red guard. Mix a multipurpose thinset and apply the thinset to the red guard with a 1/4" notch trowel and add your mud to the top of the thinset. Cover your thinset completely with the mortar bed material to avoid stepping in the setting mortar. This allows for the floor to be waterproofed and the mud to have an attachment to the floor.
Your ideas on how to install a shower pan seems to be interesting
I found a rather excellent waterproofing membrane, FYI. It's called BondTAC. It's made in Canada, and a company called Gluetek sells it in New York (and ships it all over the country). It's a complete waterproofing elastomeric membrane, as well as an air/vapor barrier, and an extremely powerful adhesive. You can build your shower out of sheetrock, coat it with BondTAC, and it'll be permanently waterproof. Its adhesive properties allow it to bond powerfully with tile mastic as well.
The mud bed is also an uncoupler as well as a shower base. It's a good idea to put wire lath in the mud bed for added strength, however, it is not necessary.
I agree with the reviewers who commented on this being an outdated system. Not only are they excessively heavy, they are prone to leaking. eventually the mud bed will become saturated with water and mildew will be the result of that.
I also believe the additive is overkill in the pre pitching of the shower pan floor. As far as the bed itself which is on top of the membrane, it would be irresponsible to have additive placed in that mud. It will lead to latex leaching which will discolor the grout.
The gentleman performing the work seems to be a highly qualified individual.
Thank you.
Jeff Zielke
JTZ Professional Flooring
YES
you have to do it this WAY on CONCRETE also!
Yes, a pre-slope is necessary over a slab too.
Also, if a curb is necessary, make sure you use a metal lath that you form in the field the shape and size of the curb. I usually cut an 11" wide by the length of the curb and place it over the pan. I place screws on the outside of the curb at the bottom. No penetrations on top or inside. Use a wall mud (a premix or sand, cement and lime) I use a cut piece of durock the size of the top of the curb. Usually 4.5" wide to form the curb. Make sure you pitch the top of the curb toward the inside.
You can apply the BondTAC directly to the plywood sub floor, and bypass the tar paper step - and it'll seal it far more effectively. Apply another coat prior to putting down the thin set / mastic for the tile to permanently prevent any water transmission into the base, and coat the walls and ceiling as well to ensure that no moisture will ever get through - you will never have to worry about the infamous "mold sandwich"!
I added an extra 5/8 plywood on top of the existing floor for more stability.
Always, always, always, use a healthy bead of silicone to adhere the rubber membrane to the bottom flange prior to installing the hold down ring. Also, apply a bead beneath the hold down ring too. Make sure not to get any in the weep holes. a lot of people use the mosaic or 2x2 marble sheet goods. make sure to SEAL THE HELL out of the tile.
Our shower was bulit this way--believe me the professionals do it the best. Our "handyman" tried three times and failed. It's good to understnad howthey are doing it, but unless you are really good, I'd leave it to them!
Thanks for showing the installation.
@bob4friends I agree about the blocking, but it's not to support the weight of the mortar, but the liner itself. And, how else are you going to attach the clamping drain if you don't cut a hole in the liner? C'mon, give the video maker credit for installing a preslope at all. Most tile installers don't even know what that is.
@godbluffvdgg Sorry, that is wrong. The silicone goes only on the underside of the membrane not on top of it.
Mr. Buffington, thank you very much for the video. I am going to do install one in the near future (maybe). I recently bought a house and the last owner just installed a new tile shower (DIY project for sure). There are no leaks when it runs normally (regular shower), but one time I placed a wash cloth over the drain so my son had a few inches of water to play in. When I lifted the cloth to "drain" the shower, I had water leak downstairs. I think the water creates a little pressure as all that water is draining through the P trap after the drain. When I opened up the ceiling and replicated the "leak" it looked like it was leaking from the bottom of the drain. After watching your video, Im wondering if the installer simply didn't silicone the vinyl to the actual drain. What are your thoughts on this? Is this normal? I don't want to tear a "new" shower out, but I also want to make sure it is done right.
Thanks in advance for your help!
maybe for tiling i understand several layers for mortar when installing tiles onto the floor but for a porcelain shower pan or prefabbed, it really just needs to make sure your base is level. I mean you can look up bob vila videos with him using nothing as the base but subfloor
Woops, I should have watched this first.. I poured a concrete floor.. I'm a concrete specialist, so I hope it came out right.. I was wondering if RedGuard should be applied AS the tile adhesive, or before.
Do you have to put mortar twice?
@kihei11 this is scary someone would tell people this! Your right!
Does anyone know if you are installing a pre-fabbed pan like a Maax pan do you need to put a pan liner in under it as well
That's the purpose of the pre fab pan. Read all directions.
ok there is nothing outdated here but there is a step that he misses that is important .
(a membrane is just as effective as a hot mop if it is installed correctly)
in order these are the steps to take for a membrane to be up to code in california.
first 2x6 or 8 inbetween all your wall studs. your pre slope has to pitch at a minimum of 1/4 in to the drain. let dry. your membrane must go up the wall a minimum of 6 in or more folded in corners no cuts. fasten at the top of two x six with staples nails or screws . cut the membrane to the inside of the drain next ADD A BEAD OF SILICONE ONLY ON THE UNDERNEATH SIDE OF YOUR CUTOUT IN BETWEEN THE MEMBRANE AND THE DRAIN. ADD THE CLAMP MAKE SMALL CUTS SO YOUR BOLTS CAN GO THROUGH AND TIGHTEN DOWN EVENLY .SCREW IN THE TOP OF THE DRAIN LEAVING ABOUT AN INCH OR INCH AND A HALF SPACE BETWEEN YOUR MEMBRANE AND THE DRAIN ITSELF . now you can dry pac your mud in around edges run a level from the wall to the drain you want a drop of 3/16 to 1/4 inch drop from your wall to your drain only no more than 1/4 inch or it wont feel right when standing on it. unscrew your drain to the size of tile your installing so its flush with your drain . check for drop adjust as needed and tile it.
I need some advise you sound very knowledgeable are you willing?
@@budwilson6177 sure whats your question
@@budwilson6177 714 453 7470 text me with ur question
Where’s the bead of sealant between the base flange and liner ?
why not put a membrane and use real cement board on the floor as the barrier and base to go over the membrane, screw in with backboard screws, apply thinset mortar as needed on that to level any areas and fill seams covering all the cement board. I feel like the more concrete or paper you lay the more problems occur. Your adding more work and more issues that could occur. Just speaking as an engineer.
dz
Are you sure you would want to screw the board, which will in turn screw through the pan that will eventually leak? The whole purpose of the concrete be able to set the slope, and to have a solid base without having to attach it to anything.
Hey there! Have you heard related to the Tube Cash Exposure? I came across it on Google Search and read lots of phenomenal stuff about it. A lot of my friend also strongly recommend me to look at it
WHAT BRAND IS THAT FLOOR MIX??
Where is the wire over the tar paper, and why didnt he dry mix the sand and cement before adding the liquid?
Tar paper ....old school
c dawg since old school does that mean good or bad?
@MoeDuddly very mature
@MoeDuddly Have you watched the video? Tar paper is for the base of the preslope. Then the membrane goes down, at this point the pan is installed.
This is really some low hanging fruit to keep from insulting you for this ill fated comment which...
Why no blocking? Blocking is important to long term durability.
not all showers have curbs.......
level on 4:34 not yet
Probably the part where you show people how to do his job for far less money.
DONT CRY.
If you are in the West Michigan area and in need of a Custom Frameless All Glass Shower Enclsoure check this out: czcams.com/video/eWYa8S227ig/video.html
knee pads
@MoeDuddly watch the video you moron.
the very first part of this was wrong. you dont just apply that morter on top of the paper you need to put hardboard down first to support the morter dip shits