The Subtle Themes of the Amazing Spider-Man 1 & 2 | Video Essay (ft TheThoughtTheater)
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- čas přidán 11. 07. 2024
- Special Thanks to the Thought Theater for writing the majority of this essay, check him out: / @zachdoumit
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So this video is my edit of this essay and for the purpose of my own stye its more cut down, so TheThoughtTheater's cut is longer and features the entire script. So totally check his out and consider my version the theatrical cut and his the director's cut (since he also wrote most of the essay). :)
czcams.com/video/oaQgK6OxnvE/video.html
Don't forget the hyphen between Spider and Man Spider-Man
Alright lol thank you Man
You know it's funny when people say this is the worst spider-man movie or sm3 or mcu spidey etc. But I have never hated a single spider-man movie. This character is genuinely the greatest superhero ever.
I highly, highly, HIGHLY agree. And not it's not just blind fanboyism. I feel like every interpretation of the character we've seen explores something new and different. I have a slight bias against the MCU Spidey because of how unrelatable he becomes, but I still really enjoy the heart of the character shown through the newer versions as well.
@@Slimshadow457 yh I feel the same way about mcu spidey but hes still enjoyable
:/ yeah, ASM2 is the weakest, but its still watchable and enjoyable and so Spiderman. All his actors and portrayals have been at the very least ok, and at most amazing (unlike say Batman who has ranged from horrible to incredible in terms of portrayals)
I unfortunaly cannot say the same. I grow up loving Spider-Man and I liked TASM 2 when I watched in cinema. I can't bring myself to watch these days. I want my favorite super hero to not only have a good super hero movie, but also an actuall good movie in genral. TASM 2 isn't any of this, and also has some of the worst writting I have ever seen. I just can't stand, but I'm glad people can overlook, even If I think there's nothing to enjoy
Guilherme Silva fair enough. The writing is generally poor in tasm2.
love them or hate them, you can't deny Andrew Garfield brought something else into peter parker character. he's charismatic, Charming and doesn't get bullied. all of these are not really peter parker characteristics, but it works
Ooh yeah that's a great way to put it! :)
Charismatic? He stutters all the time and fumbles and barely manages to maintain eye contact for longer than 3 seconds at a time. Yeah, he's really really handsome, so it's slightly overlooked by most people. And also did we all forget the scene where he gets socked in the jaw by Flash? OK he's not getting picked on a lot in the film itself but there's a reason he assumes Flash is just going to pick on him in the hallway when he lifts him up. Subtext implies Flash usually picks on him or would make snide remarks at him, and Peter was not having it.
@@Slimshadow457 TASM had the best flash thompson in any movie imo the guy actually had character and wasnt just a one dimensional bully even felt sorry for peter when he lost his uncle.
@@As02561 Agreed. I feel the Spidey movies evolved with their time, too.
I will admit I'm curious to see the MCU Thompson as well. The added in line at the end of Far From Home about his parents not being there to pick him up or whatever.. Felt cheap, felt tacky but it's showing that they'd like to set up some depth to that Flash.
Crazy nerd theory time, IF Marvel Studios and Sony want to retcon/soft-connect Venom and to the MCU, they COULD do so thru Riz Ahmed's character in Venom and Flash. Hear me out: Thompson is his mom's maiden name, and his parents are separated. His dad was Carlton Drake, owned the Life Foundation, and died in the events of the Venom film. After high school, Flash goes into the Life Foundation project and picks up his dad's experiments. By that point we can assume the Venom series/trilogy has ended, and Eddie is no longer bonded to Venom, and thus Flash weaponises the symbiotes, creating "Agent Venom"s, and then donning the symbiote himself and becoming Agent Venom.
@@Slimshadow457 Kinda interesting theory but just cant take this flash seriously and I dont know if he will be a believable agent venom I would rather take the ps4 route where harry osborn ends up getting venom or even stick with eddie and finally have the venom vs spidey clash we always wanted. Not counting Grace's venom in sm3.
You got your braces off. Now there's nothing to distract from your unibrow.
As not "a man of culture" - basically never held a comic book in my hands - I personally found those movies great. They may not be amazing _Spider-Man movies,_ but they are quite good _movies in their own right._ Deep, emotional, way more relatable than Raimi's trilogy, and yeah, Garfield is much much much better *actor* than Maguire.
I loved these movies. Garfield and Stone’s performances really brought the humanity to the characters and made me feel for them. The enemies are the weak part of the films but I loved this representation of Peter Parker and it brought me back to my obsession of Spider-Man. TASM2 still has the best live action suit in my opinion
Yeah I hadn't really noticed how sincere and strong their screen chemistry was until I was editing the video. And now I totally get why Stone and Garfield are a lot of people's favorite versions of these characters. But yeah I hope this video did an alright job discussing your love :)
Such a wonderful video! I am the producer over at The Thought Theater, it was a great experience working with you, thank you!
Aww thanks! It was really great working with you guys, and your video turned out great too! :)
I want join you guys
I always loved these movies. They got me through tough times in high school where I related to Andrew's Peter a lot. To me they're just one of many great depictions of Spider-Man and I wish this series had continued.
To me those movies work in duality. In the first movie Peter freely shares his knowledge and abilities without thinking of the consequences and as a result people die (there is also the theme of revenge on which he gives up at the end of the movie, a moment I love and I never understood why so many complain about the murder never getting caught, that was the whole point). In the second movie, he tries to not repeat the mistakes. Hence he refuses to give up his blood, knowing what irresponsible scientist could do with it, he puts all his abilities on protecting people - and Gwen still dies. Which might be the hardest lesson to learn that even if he uses what he has responsible, there won't be some carmic reward for him.
For years I've been trying to find out why I loved this "amazing" series. I've never been able to put it to words or tell anyone why they are such great films... this video is exactly it
Keith Henry same
I really wish someone would deconstruct the electro face heel turn cause its my favorite scene. The soundtrack design was perfect during it.
The main plots of these movies are actually about Peter and his family, Peter and Gwen, and Peter and Spider Man. The villains take a back seat in these movies and when you watch them for those parts of the movie you see whats so great about them. If the villains in these movies would have gotten better writing and motivations, those would be perfect movies.
Wait his dad comes back in a deleted scene! How the heck didn’t I know about this!
These movies are highly underrated in my opinion.
Andrew Garfield is my favorite Spider-Man and always will be
Thank you so much for making this video. To this day I still love ASM2 and honestly do not get how hated it got. Sure it has a little structure problems and trouble juggling some of the character development but everything is beautifully executed tying into the very relatable themes of time, loneliness, abandonment and finally hope. It is a great movie that deserves a second, more deeper look.
it's great that you are still getting yourself worked up about these movies, i've only just seen them a few weeks ago and some of the stuff mentioned here is what really spoke to me, didn't feel much like a spider-man movie but felt like there was emotional weight where previously there was very little. i think groundedness is pretty much absent from the MCU at large, so it was refreshing to see it being played out quite so explicitly. thanks for joining forces xx
Aww wow thanks! And yeah I think it's due to a difference in genre ambitions cuz the MCU interpretation strive to work as comedies when exploring the character, but Webbs version is focused as dramas so there's a real sharp contrast in terms of emotional gravitas :)
I always thought Marc Webb’s vision had so much potential thwarted by a company. Even though the films are an objective mess, you can still feel a little something when you watch them and I never knew why till now.
Marc Webb's original vision was to tell the difficult life of Peter Parker.
Show that even if life tramples you, you have to get up over and over and over again.
Even villains help deliver a powerful message. Spiderman will face villains wherever and whenever he is at all times without notice ... They will come from the least expected places like his best friend for example.
Great positive perspective.
I always though Amazing Spider-Man was arrogant, never realized it was part of his character development...
I've heard people say they think Peter is a jerk in the first movie, but I always liked that take. The film aims to be realistic and it's realistic for a loner teenager who gets bullied to have angst, and act out in mean ways. This is compounded when he suffers a tragedy due to Uncle Ben's death. This jerkiness is part of his character development, as he has a course correction after his discussion with Captain Stacy at Gwen's dinner. In the comics during high school, Peter actually did have the angst Andrew's displays - Tobey and Tom's more innocent takes make them more endearing to quite a few, and I like their characters, but it's not actually as accurate as Andrew's portrayal when it comes to level of resentment. I think all the Peter portrayals bring valuable things to the table, with Tom's being the overall best.
The worst thing about the Amazing Spider-Man movies was the plot. All the nonsense with OsCorp and juggling multiple origin stories and how Peter's parents were apparently secret spies or whatever. That stuff sucked. But the actors all brought their A-Game (except Jamie Foxx) and imbued a lot of genuine emotion, despite the clunky material they were given. They deserved better.
Idk I think everything was well handled in the first but some of it was forced in the second
I agree with you. The first ASMR is just a boring movie to watch, it brings nothing interesting to the table and the lizard plan was something really stupid.
I can't even talk bout how much ASM 2 is awful to start to end
Better than the Disney MCU version
In the comics, Peter was the son of two shield agents.
here are oscorp agents ... I don't understand what the problem is.
again did you see the video?? is a two movies about the hard life of peter parker.
@@raulmendez1859 yeah and his cia parents was one of the things most comic readers didn't like. it takes out the everyman aspect of Peter Parker
This was beautiful and makes me appreciate this movie so much more
Thank you so much
I didnt know that could be possible but it was
This video really moved me so thank you to both of you guys
Aww wow thanks! You've totally made making this video worth it! :)
There's so much more than meets the with these movies.
Ludwig Adam agreed! That’s why I love them
I guess my only question is, How would you, if given the chance, carry these themes forward into a third movie?
These movies are wayyyy underrated
Your implied pretension has my attention.
Marc Webb tried to tell a movie that talks more about his characters than the plot, he did not want to show impressive choreography or plots to save the universe.
Just tell character interactions, character development, tell us about the difficult life of Peter Parker in a time when it is more important to make jokes, tell references or stories to save the world.
The two amazing spiderman movies are actually two good movies about peter parker.
Hate me if you want but TASM1 Is my favorite Spider-Man movie.
GalaxyStudios nice to see someone else who appreciates these films
The Thought Theater Aye likewise man :)
Woah that was an amazing analysis. I also heard that Sony prevented Marc Webb from doing things his way and he's a director known for his movies being very human. I would be so curious to see what those movies would have looked like without studio interferences as well.
#ReleaseTheWebbCut
Superb analysis! I'm in agreement with The Thought Theatre regarding the liking of The Amazing Spider-Man 2 aiming to tell "a really good emotional story". Peter's life has had its share of dramatic, tragic moments throughout his comic run, nights where he'll just end them feeling deflated, depressed, and in a state where you know he'll be hard on himself and have ruminating negative thoughts for months. I got a palpable feeling of that tone after the action climax was over. The Raimi trilogy and The Amazing Spider-Man also had their tragic moments, but they were mixed with clear triumphant ones as well. At the end of TASM2's action finale, there's an overwhelming sense of tragedy despite the big planes save and the power being restored to the hospital, as all the main characters, the ones we've followed, have tragic ends - Max's unstable mind led to his downfall and death, when he simply wanted to be seen and loved, and his work was stolen from him. Harry's friendship with Peter meets a tragic end, as he becomes unstable due to the Goblin disease, embracing villainous ways and cruelly causing the death of his best friend's girlfriend. Gwen dies tragically, and when she had such a bright future ahead of her with a scholarship too. Peter is left devastated due to losing Gwen. It all feels like a grand, operatic tragedy, one from the comics, where Peter will classically (and very sadly!) end up in the state I mentioned above. I think the film still needs some work - Max was too goofy, and it's unclear why Harry needed a cure so urgently.
in fact what you mention appears in the deleted scenes.
Max works for me as this shy and introverted nerd.
In these scenes, Harry's fear of death and some flashbacks of Harry and Norman are explored.
Weird, I was just thinking about the franchise recently.
Oh wow that is kinda weird :p
@@ImplicitlyPretentious please let me know if I'm living in a simulation
@@NOORDRAWS I haven't been programmed to provide a sufficient answer to maintain subterfuge. Execute protocol 10
@@ImplicitlyPretentious This is why I'm subscribed
@@ImplicitlyPretentious This guy is totally not Mark Zuckerberg wiring your house and brain (WINK WINK NUDGE NUDGE).
Nice to see this channel grow.
You don’t see a good review for Sony’s ASM often but you’re right. These movies did demonstrate a very unique adaptation of Peter Parker and had the studio not vastly misinterpreted the storyline it would have been a very humanistic look into his life.
The amount of people has left Peter in TASM higher than every adaptation of the character.
always appreciated this interpretation of spiderman
The amazing spider man 1 -the best and amazing origin of Spider-Man
Spider man 2-the best movie to show Spider-Man struggles and how he over come them
Spider verse - the spectacular way of showing anyone could wear the mask
Mcu Spider-Man homecoming- a alright way of showing how Spider-Man goes from friendly neighbor to become one of the best avengers
Honestly, leaving in that scene with Richard Parker visiting Peter wouldn’t have worked because it would left the film with some huge plot holes that take away from its story, that and I honestly feel like it hammers in its message more than it needed too since we get Gwen’s speech.
This is awesome 👏
The amazing spiderman was truly the best version of spiderman
These two movies for me are the perfect example of great ideas and themes failed by terrible execution and studio mingling. I mean there are some real great stuff here; best swinging sequence, live-action Spider-Man costume, "I'm Spider-Man" moment and one the only genuinely great romantic relationships in comicbook movies.
actually are great ideas with great excution
Wow, I'm early for today's upload :)
Yeah I did a simultaneous upload with the thought theater so we so happened to pick this time :)
@@ImplicitlyPretentious well I enjoyed your upload, so cheers mate.
The best parts of The Amazing Spider-Man 2 may be the best on screen Spider-Man moments. There's so much heart in them. I don't know, I guess this is just my opinion, but I would've loved to see what could've come from this universe.
Tbh I liked these movies but I’m a spidey fanatic so I like everything with spidey on it and the suit he wore in Amazing Spider-Man 2 I’ve even cosplayed thank you for giving this film series a chance . Thought I do find in some ways this series did peter better then Ramis and rami’s Spider-Man did some better the. Andrew.
Cool.
It's cool that you said cool :)
@@ImplicitlyPretentious Thanks, it's a cool thing to say. Have a great weekend!
@@backup-qg6nb thanks it's a cool way to reply too, I hope you have good weekend too! :)
Cool cool cool guys...
NINE NINE!!!
I love you😭
The Amazing series brought very nice things and a very very nice cast, but the script was just a mess
These movies did demonstrate a very unique adaptation of Peter Parker and had the studio not vastly misinterpreted the storyline it would have been a very humanistic look into his life.
Have you seen Split and Glass yet? If so, a video on that trilogy would be awesome.
Sifat Shams I made an essay on Glass over on my channel 😊
@@ZachDoumit What's the title of the video? Can't seem to find it.
I love all the hypocrites that say they ALWAYS liked TASP series
Amazing spiderman 1 has always been a favorite of mine
I never even got a first look
Aww well thanks for clicking on the video anyways :)
I loved these movies and it is sad that the fanboys go rabid over a Snyder Cut and Restore is the Snyderverse; but I would love a Webb cut of ASM2. I thought the movie deserves to be viewed better.
What is that opening music, my man at 1:26?
Is this Lipstick on a Pig Day? Big Joel defends Twilight and now a defense of the Amazing Spider-Man. What's next, the defense of Jupiter Rising, Movie 43 or Kirk Cameron's Saving Christmas?
Damn you've figured out my Christmas video list, there's also the Hannah Montana movie too
I didn't like the amazing spider-man 2 at all really, but this video makes it actually make more sense
Idk the first amazing spiderman is one of my favorite spidey films and I never found the second to be awful but definitely not as good as the original
Can someone please tell me whats the name of the song in the intro?
Im trying to find it too 😂
Enjoyed the video, don't agree with it. I feel some of the things you pointed out don't exactly hold up when you focus on other points from the movie (The fact that he becomes Spider-Man originally for revenge, not being a hero for others), or they just seem accidentally put into the movie.
Still, love this channel and I'm glad you're dedicated enough to upload videos with this much detail almost every week. I subbed for the Endgame vid (Which I still think is your best) but you have hardly ever dropped the level of detail in your analysis'.
Aww thanks! And yeah I think that's the issue with any analysis capturing the totality of everything is always going to be an issue, but yeah that's incredibly flattering and I'm so glad you enjoyed my endgame video! :)
doesn't toby do the same but he kills the guy
*slow clap*
1:29 does anyone know the song's name?
Do you respond to comments?
ANswers.
FInally.
*THANK* you.
Do you have a letterboxd acount?
I like the amazing Spiderman more than the mcu Spiderman because the amazing Spiderman 1 and 2 have a better peter parker/Spiderman story and even better action
How did his dad come back? It clearly states in the movie that both Peter’s parents were killed in the plane crash
Noah_Thompson _art that was their goal man they wanted to be pronounced dead so Oscorp didn’t come after them
They failed epicly to make a great story with Richard Parker and genetic manipulation. Even the scene where he appears and speaks to Peter was deleted. It had so much potential that it didn't meet. And Spiderman was more of an asshole than a relatable character. The actor was good though. Part1 was decent. I guess. Part2 was meh at best
Yeah I think it's the detriment of them not only changing writers between movies but also hiring Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci
@@ImplicitlyPretentious I agree with your points, but the execution was just... pff
Peter Parker was always a flesh and blood character ... no crap that's politically correct.
spiderman movies were not afraid to show a true teenager. And the garfield character was a real teenager with fear, anger, and frustration.
and the story of richard parker was really great
So is this a comic book movie channel?
Ehhh... Kinda depends on my mood, sometimes I'll make videogames essays or other films. It just so happened that I ended up making a tone of superhero essays. So derp
Hey
Hola
I cried so hard when gwen died it was so feels UUGH and I love gwen so much more than MJ. I like Zendayas MJ better but MJ in general I just dont like I like gwen the best.
distractingly longneck LOL I thought you were going to say distractingly good-looking face because he does not look nerdy at all
DC marvel Fanboy I didn’t realize being nerdy was defined by looks
@@zdoumit5396 it's not just that it's also the way he acts but that is a huge part of it
Where is the most new dreaint Around the movie and the movie and the new dreaint and then the first time we can get it together and then go home and then go back to sleep
Spider man dressed Gwen drop off and put them on a few things and then go back to the studio and then get some errands done and they are doing it and they are going out can you cruise and we can get together
Dude the amazing spider man series is a shame cause Garfield and stone where awesome together
did you just ..
Errr... Maybe? :p
@@ImplicitlyPretentious You totally did! You're not fooling anyone.
The guy you collaborated with enjoys these movies? Yikes
Subbed glad someone else likes the tasm series or you know isn't roasting it on CZcams
Well very good video but the last 10 seconds were just dumb
Who tf is spiderman?
I can't tell if you live under a rock or if you're a joker from r/RespectTheHyphen
Andres Acosta nah im just a joker who respects the hyphen
TASM is my fav Spidey movie anyway lol
I think The Amazing Spider-man is a really good Spider-man movie. Just a shitty movie.
both are a good movies
The only Subtle Theme in these two movies is that they suck....
*(I appreciate your perspective though. i just dont like this series)*
Aww well thanks for watching any ways, I'm really flattered that you clicked on it in spite of disliking them :)
still the worst of the Spiderman movies, but this makes it better
nah is a great spiderman movie ever