Having used both convex and scandi ground blades for wood cutting I can say that I prefer scandi for all tasks other than battoning through logs for firewood, as an example. The scandi edge "bites" the wood better and can be used for more delicate cutting IMO. Thanks!
The most important factor in determining which grind to use is personal preference. I make Scandi , convex, and flat grind knives. They all cut about the same , depending on who is using them and what they're cutting. If you're just simply carving wood, a Scandi grind is fine, because you're not typically batoning with force or hacking hard against grains. But if I'm surviving in the woods in mostly hardwood territory, and some serious bushcraft has to be done, I'm gonna want something with some serious backbone like the convex or the flat, something I can baton the shit out of some oak with and know it will still be in the shape of a knife blade when I'm done! That's why I always take one of each in to the woods on my treks. If I need to gut a fish or a small game animal, I'll bust out that scandi and go full bore surgeon on his ass. But if I'm batoning or chopping large tree branches for my shelter, I'm breaking out the flat or the convex grind and going to town brute style on that tree. That's my two cents! Thanks, y'all!!
Try a Sami knife for chopping branches. They have a Scandinavian edge, but a much wider angle (up to 45 degrees is common), and a much heavier blade. You can cut reindeer bones with those, or open cans without dulling the edge, or using it for whittling[*]. Because the angle is bigger, the bevels are smaller and sharpening takes less work. The major drawback is the size - 8" blades gets them classified as illegal machetes in some states. [*] Comparable angle to a bench plane, and often used two-handed as a spokeshave.
daisy8luke bingo. You hit it on the head. Its nothing about which grind is better. Thats the silliest thing I ever heard. Its which knife with its grind is best suited for the purpose you will use it with. I too also always take 2 knives with me. My destruction proof carbon steel blade with a flat grind and my ss scandi mora. There just 2 totally diff knives. One isnt better. I will say this about this video. That guy can sharpen a knife and a true convex grind is a work of art. Ofc he likes it better. He spent alot of time on the knife he likes best. Its all good. Lol
The wood type in your area is usually underestimated. in Scandinavia the woods are soft mostly, Birch as the most prominent "hard wood" and it's not hard. in southern parts you can find patches of Oak but it's not forest wide. Mostly what everyone thinks about Scandinavian forest are Birch, Pine and Spruce. All relatively soft woods with small amount of branches that doesn't hinder "batoning", these splits easy.
Hello Wako. My humble opinion: One advantage of scandi is the ease of sharpening out in the woods. You only need a small Fällkniven DC4. A convex blade is more complicated to maintain properly in my opinion. Also the scandigrind is really good for more delicate work where the convex might slip off the material unless the edge is really thin. Scandi has more "bite" in the edge. For small woodwork +feathersticks i really prefer scandi, for hard "hitting" tasks the axelike convex edge is better.
I don't think the grind was what was being compared here. The convex was a much heavier, tougher knife with a handle that allowed for far greater cutting force to be applied.
a convex knife grind pushes through flesh a lot easier which is why most historical swords and daggers are made this way - penetration in the slash as well as stab. Additionally the blade is very strong for striking other blade weapons. The fetish with cutting paper with knives on CZcams does not translate into real world knife use. Anyone ( is there anyone left?) who chops wood knows that a flat or hollow ground axe sticks in the cut and doubles the work. This man has demonstrated very clearly that a convex ground edge requires a lot less work. Japanese guys know edge weapons...
My question is which is better for bushcrafting? Using the same knife for splitting branches and creating feather sticks, not for carving or taking out chunks of wood.
You're right. Convex edges are nicer for an axe. I use a 2-profile hatchet which has a wedge grind that merges to an elliptical edge. Elliptical edges are easier to achieve with things like flap wheels on angle grinders or with belt sanders that don't have a flat surface behind the belt. When it comes to personal knives, I go with elliptical and chisel. The elliptical knives vary in shape. The chisel knives are always tanto shaped and used for scraping/shaving.
Thanks very much for this over view. Both excellent knives; I like them both and I have them both. I am more subjective than you and would find it difficult to choose just one grind if I had to. Fortunately, I don't have to choose just one grind for all tasks. I enjoyed watching.
I like all of your video. I don't have time to watch everyone channel s but I do have time to watch the best. And that is why I watch your channel. Thank you for being my teacher.
I believe it was your video on strop compounds(white and green)that helped me out.the convex seems to release from the cut more easily than the scandi. great videos,VERY well done. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
Both of these knives are flagship bushcrafters. The convex edge will give you a blunt axe like chopping action. Great for wood. Not that scandi isn't by any means. However, the Scandi, in my opinion is better for cleanning and skinning game. It's also better for intriqite work. The convex is better for heavy use. This is why the puukko is often carried with the larger Luukko knife.
Nice test! Convex sure beat scandi in cuting of wood. But when you are whitling longer, scandi is better. With convex, when you use more power than usually, it cuts better than scandi with the same amount of power. In scandinavia, hunters needed a wicked sharp knife for skining and wood cuting at the same time. All heavier works were done with axe. But anyway, as i said, nice test indeed! Greetings from Finland!!!
Nice video. My main two knives have hollow and scandi grinds. I have become more fond of convex grinds though, I even pulled one out of mothballs a few days ago. The main disadvantage is that they take longer to sharpen, but they get extremely sharp. Other grinds though are much easier to sharpen in the field. Thanks for the video.
I think scandi are actually very hard to sharpen if you really try and preserve the ZERO grind, without creating a micro bevel . Convex on the other hand are much more easier ...
I think they both are/would be very easy. On the Scandi, you just lay the bevel on the stone and put some pressure on it, to make a microbevel, you'd have to make a little slip.. The Convex you kinda just have to do a rolling motion when pulling the edge over the stone..
If doing it slowly it shouldn't be a problem. My Mora has a very small bevel compared to my Yanagiba, it is harder yes, but if you don't rush it, then it's fairly simple to keep it flat on the bevel.
You are an impressive man when it comes to sharpening steel. Bark river needs to put you on payroll as you drum up a lot of business for them. Take care.
My favorite knife has a scandivex grind. I also own knives with true Scandi and flat grind (both with secondary v and secondary convex). They all have their purpose. I like the scandivex for wood because it gives similar bite like a Scandi but more control (i would say it feels like a certain kind of flow). I haven't ever had a knife with full convex grind. Would really love to try it.
Ha, you took your sweet time cutting w/scandi while went turbo mode using convex for a merely 6 seconds faster. But thanks for showing. I have preference over neither.
Convex is proven better. Although they are just as useful, convex spreads while Scandi bites. One not being more useful than the other but convex holds an edge for forever. Katanas used this edge and they were made for piercing armor and crazy shit. They are truly the hardest to sharpen tho spend at least a day from no edge to razor like.
This is more personal preference than anything else. There are many other factors to consider besides just the edge of the knife. In my experience scandi is a better wood cutter than convex in most wood cutting scenarios. Convex can be a stronger edge though and can separate the wood more if that is what's needed. You should do this test with two identical knives with the different edges for more accurate results. And also make feather sticks. baton and carve a point on a stick. Nicely done!
I knew Pekka's edge angle is fairly large after doing the following video of Scandi competition. The trigonometric calculator says its edge angle is 22 degrees inclusive while Enzo Nordic's angle is 15 degrees inclusive. Thanks.
Interesting demo. Yes for straight cuts a flat bevel is most efficient but a convex blade allows some steering while cutting which a woodcarver might appreciate.
You have a beautiful mirror finish on your Pekka Tuominen blade. You obviously look after them very well. May I ask what you use to get such a mirror finish?
The reflection off of the scandi grind blade is not a perfectly flat mirror up to the edge (see 1:00). This is completely understandable if the sharpening is done by hand. I would say this video compares scandi-vex to convex. I would like to meet someone who can resharpen a true scandi by hand over and over and not convert the grind to slightly convex.
What I use is a convex grind of very roughly around 22.5 degrees. I have developed a feel of the right sharpening angle, but because of the little inaccuracies in the process of sharpening my blades so fast, the blade ends up somewhat convex. I wouldn't say maintaining convex grind is 'complicated 'as long as you don't purposedly stray from the intended sharpening angle. But it takes practice, and in the beginning you will have to check your angle often. Eventually it will become a second nature
Scandi slices better due to less resistance but convex applies more power so it really depends on the wood. So use convex for harder wood and scandi for softer wood but youre really "splitting hairs" imo. Outside of that, convex is better all around except when it comes to sharpening. In the field I carry two fixed blades, one with a saber convex and one with a scandi. Saber convex gets the harder tasks and scandi gets the easier tasks. -No expert, just personal experience.
Can you sharpen a convex edge on a flat whetstone? The biggest reason I prefer scandi is because it's so easy to sharpen, the scandi is the sharpening guide in itself, I'm still working on every other grind though.
When you move the blade on the flat stone, the bevel has to go slightly convex because your arm motion is a swing of the pendulum from your shoulder. For the reason you exaggerate the pendulum motion and you sharpen a convex edge.
the thing is that scandi is a grind for wood Carving, carving with a scandi edge it is easier than with a conve knife, in bushcraft you carve things rather that break or destroy the wood...in fact convex is a better wood spliter and breaker as the grind is meant to do just that, but when you try to carve something, convex does not stand a chance against scandi.
All he's doing is demonstrating that some grinds are better at certain jobs than others. A Scandi grind has better bite, so works better on less radical angles.
I was wondering if you would have done feather sticking. My scandi Enzo Trapper 01 steel is the sharpest knife I have ever owned. It feather sticks like butter. My convex Ontario Blackbird 154cm is much more work to feather stick.Thus I was thinking your scandi would be better wood worker. At least for me it is at feathersticking.
You really need to do a 100 cuts down to a marked line for both knives timed, the convex seemed to be a harder cut as part of your energy is used to push away the wood but the scandi just cuts though it.
I currently do only featherstick making and baton splitting on natural hard wood. For the purpose I love 3.2mm thick slightly convex Scandi and 4.0mm thick high convex geometry which are Mora Garberg and Bravo1 LT. Thanks.
Harro , Knife otoko ! Just a remark : if the convex spreads the wood appart, it does it using energy/force, agreed? Yes, this energy comes from somewhere, your arm. So, it performs something more than Scandi, but at more cost. Agreed? Now, what would be interesting is to see if the more direct but less prolongated friction of the material on the blade's side with convex is a gain or a loss compared to the softer but continuous friction on the scandi's sides .
ya for sure, it would be way easier to cut all the way through like a stick with a scandi then a convex. A convex is more of a blunt edge so it would be very difficult to cut through something
If I'm abusing a knife, especially if chopping or batoning, I'll prefer a convex grind. If I'm making shallow carves into wood, I want Scandi. If I'm butchering meat, I want Flat or Saber grind. If making thin slices of fish, fowl, or vegetables, I want hollow grind, or flat grind, or perhaps a super narrow chisel grind. Convex will be the most durable form. And if I'm cutting a lot of something fibrous, such as rope, a serrated edge works well. I'd rather not resharpen a serrated blade. High saber grind might be the most versatile.
Nice knives and I think this gives people a pretty good look at what makes them different, but I think your conclusion is not based on empirical data (hard testing) but which knife you like betterer. You started the test with the scandi knife, took some time to set the watch down, pick up the knife and start cutting. You cut deliberately. With the convex grind you started the watch and were ready to go (I'd bet that was >5s of the difference, and then cut quickly and appeared to push harder. I'm not saying that you deliberately rigged the test for the convex grind to win, but that you enjoy using the convex grind knife better and it shows, not to mention that even though you did choose a nice clear piece of wood and made your cuts fairly close together, it is a natural material which will have some inconsistencies. I wouldn't be surprised if you did a more controlled test if the results would be so close that it would be hard to tell. I honestly think that you could have done the same the other way around and had similar results favoring the scandi. That all said, there is something to be said for just liking a knife better. I have knives that have everything I want and for some reason I just don't like them as much (and what really annoys me about them is that I spent 2-3x as much on them as some of the knives I like), and others that are flawed in ways and for one reason or another I love them and they're always in my pocket. The best knife in any situation is the knife that you're actually likely to have on you.
+Daniel De La Pena actually I've seen quite a few scandi grind axes. They always end up being a compound bevel once the owners re sharpen them, giving them a wider (if not as sharp) edge profile and better edge retention. You can also find some axes with a slight hollow grind out there if you look for them.
TaskMaster1983 Yes I agree the scandi grind generally has a sharper edge and convex has better edge retention. I personally have only scandi grind knives but I put convex bevels on them. This works well for me I also polish the bevel as this provides less friction and further helps with edge retention.
TaskMaster1983 - The only axes with scandi / hollow ground edges are “competition axes” which are used in chopping contest, they chop faster but not as long as your “user” convex edged axes.
I don't think I have ever experienced 15 degrees inclusive. Mora seems like having around 22 degrees inclusive and its 12C27 SS takes micro rolls even in this kind of light wood jobs. I like 25 degrees. Thanks.
Knife/tool makers are well aware of this difference. Example, Worksharp states in their manuals that the convex grind is "superior" to other grinds and is what they recommend.
Convex or scandi doesn't matter, the ability and skill that you have with your knife is what matters. Practice and become familiar with the knife you have
Jeremy Balkwill Because of being a thinner blade I'll wager. I'm a Scandi believer as I slice my kids' apples four times a day. My convex knives brake the slices as it's pushing through. lol
@@jeremiahshine take an opinel knife and a mora knife and cut an apple. I guarantee the scandi grind will not slice the Apple nearly as well. I don't know what kind of convex blades you're using or what kind of scandi grind that you're using but my results are the complete opposite of yours.
@@billpeart Mora Utility and Opi 1-12 Carbone... And Bark River Ansgar (A2), Kellam (very good with apples. Very soft steel)...Svörd Puukko (very good with slicing)etc...
scndi to me is god to have for a small companion knife, it dont cut in this test b/c convex has a bevel that putts akind of friction whereas the quality convex cuts all the way through with know edge bevel to slow cutting.
These comparisons are useless to prove a point unless everything else but the grind is equal. These knives have different weights, the difference in handle ergonomics may also influence the results. A true test would use two knives of equal weight and exactly the same design apart from the difference in grinds. If the objective is to cut wood like this a convex edge will out perform a scandi edge. However, when it comes to controlled and precise cutting and bushcraft tasks the scandi edge is superior. In other words, the two grinds have their strengths and weaknesses which means that they are good for different things and a simple comparison like this doesn't really tell the full story. In the end each to his own, which grind is the best is a matter of preference.
Hand sharpened Scandi bevel is superb for whittling. It has a slight bounce from wood and glide in its superficial layer to make a thin and long feather. Bark River's Scandi-vex is just a low convex technically which is no good at whittling. Thanks.
hey wake just wondering how you guys are doing with the nuclear re-actor? Hope you guys are far away from that mess. Wondering how its impacting the wild life? Any how great video as usual take care
WTF is a zero grind? I've been using, designing, and making knives for years, and I've never heard of such a thing. Is it another name for a Scandi, or something else entirely?
No matter what you show, people come to these videos with such severe bias that they see what they want to see. The type of grind does affect cutting ability. What you cut and how you cut it makes more of a difference, however. The ability of a convex grind to maintain its ability to cut longer than other grinds makes no difference IF a person judges the INITIAL time of creating a convex grind to be part of the equation. The F-1 COMES sharp. So... no difference. I have not had to SHARPEN my F-1 once. Only stropping the blade back to its previous condition is needed. VERY little time needed and no bother at all.
Scandi is weaker in my opinion because it gives u a thinner edge it makes it more risky to things like chopping or hitting wood with the edge from certain distance of course that will mainly depend on the steel quality but with same steel type a scandi will always be weaker than convex grind by default simply because its thinner so unless ur planning on using ur knife only to carve wood yes the scandi wins but if u plan on chopping, batoning with ur knife convex is better u can prove that even with axes a axe with scandi grind often chips the edge breaks when u hit log as hard as u can while a convex grind changes the whole game its all because of the design of the grinds both are made for different usages from one another
You're not chopping with your bushcraft knife. Light batoning only. It's a bushcraft knife, not a survival knife. Bushcraft knives are generally a bit smaller. Chopping is what I'd use a bk9 for. Yes the convex is stronger but for a small utilitarian knife you can use for more things a flat grind is better. I use the scsndi as well as a small flat grind joker knife to skin and feather stick.
I like to strop strongly on thin leather for convex geometry of the apex. I believe the convex apex is very tough. For the purpose I recommend you DLT XL Double Sided Paddle Strop.
Ryan Caiazza If you can afford it, you'll find a cheap 1" x 30" belt sander (around 50 bucks at Harbor Freight) fitted with a leather belt (another 25 or so) strops better than anything I've ever used. Light pressure on the platen with green chrome or other polishing compound works wonders.
dont they call that a sabre grind... not a scandi? I thought a true scandi grind was the actual grind being twice the length of the thickness of the steel... for example.... a 1/8th thick blade will have a 1/4 inch grind. your blade appears to be sharpened 3/4"s up the blade. im probably wrong is why I mentioned. thanks for sharing
Yes but complex is so hard to sharpen. That's why the Japanese were the only ones to really do it because they had the time with the main jobs being in sword making.
All metal bladed wepon making peoples on earth used and sharpened convex blades from egypt to norway from the uk to japan. They all had convex bladed wepons at their fingertips and kept them sharp. Katana blades are jusp popular because of anime
Scandinavian or convex sharpening has no bearing on me, but the hardness of the metal. The longer he holds his edge the better knife. Scandinavian sharpening is very prone to fractures. Who wants a knife in the woods today to play with woods?
Our new prime minister decided to run some reactors to supply electricity. We need to keep and improve our nuclear technology for our security for many aspects. Anyway deer and boars in the northern mainland are banned from eating officially. Hokkaido deer is okay. Thanks.
the knife you reffer to having scandi grind is infact closer to flatgrind than scandi grind. and its not what the flakes you take off the wood that counts, its whats left behind as thats the product your aiming to make. in my opinion a real scandi grind is better than convex of the simple reason it has flat surfaces wich is easier to keep plane to the wood your working on and therefor you get a smoother and flatter surface after the cut and a convex you have to hold in exact angle to get plane
Having used both convex and scandi ground blades for wood cutting I can say that I prefer scandi for all tasks other than battoning through logs for firewood, as an example. The scandi edge "bites" the wood better and can be used for more delicate cutting IMO. Thanks!
The most important factor in determining which grind to use is personal preference. I make Scandi , convex, and flat grind knives. They all cut about the same , depending on who is using them and what they're cutting. If you're just simply carving wood, a Scandi grind is fine, because you're not typically batoning with force or hacking hard against grains. But if I'm surviving in the woods in mostly hardwood territory, and some serious bushcraft has to be done, I'm gonna want something with some serious backbone like the convex or the flat, something I can baton the shit out of some oak with and know it will still be in the shape of a knife blade when I'm done! That's why I always take one of each in to the woods on my treks. If I need to gut a fish or a small game animal, I'll bust out that scandi and go full bore surgeon on his ass. But if I'm batoning or chopping large tree branches for my shelter, I'm breaking out the flat or the convex grind and going to town brute style on that tree. That's my two cents! Thanks, y'all!!
Try a Sami knife for chopping branches. They have a Scandinavian edge, but a much wider angle (up to 45 degrees is common), and a much heavier blade. You can cut reindeer bones with those, or open cans without dulling the edge, or using it for whittling[*]. Because the angle is bigger, the bevels are smaller and sharpening takes less work. The major drawback is the size - 8" blades gets them classified as illegal machetes in some states.
[*] Comparable angle to a bench plane, and often used two-handed as a spokeshave.
daisy8luke bingo. You hit it on the head. Its nothing about which grind is better. Thats the silliest thing I ever heard. Its which knife with its grind is best suited for the purpose you will use it with. I too also always take 2 knives with me. My destruction proof carbon steel blade with a flat grind and my ss scandi mora. There just 2 totally diff knives. One isnt better. I will say this about this video. That guy can sharpen a knife and a true convex grind is a work of art. Ofc he likes it better. He spent alot of time on the knife he likes best. Its all good. Lol
The wood type in your area is usually underestimated. in Scandinavia the woods are soft mostly, Birch as the most prominent "hard wood" and it's not hard. in southern parts you can find patches of Oak but it's not forest wide. Mostly what everyone thinks about Scandinavian forest are Birch, Pine and Spruce. All relatively soft woods with small amount of branches that doesn't hinder "batoning", these splits easy.
Hello Wako.
My humble opinion:
One advantage of scandi is the ease of sharpening out in the woods. You only need a small Fällkniven DC4. A convex blade is more complicated to maintain properly in my opinion. Also the scandigrind is really good for more delicate work where the convex might slip off the material unless the edge is really thin.
Scandi has more "bite" in the edge. For small woodwork +feathersticks i really prefer scandi, for hard "hitting" tasks the axelike convex edge is better.
I don't think the grind was what was being compared here. The convex was a much heavier, tougher knife with a handle that allowed for far greater cutting force to be applied.
you have one of the most informative site for knives. I always check your site when I think about buying. Thanks
a convex knife grind pushes through flesh a lot easier which is why most historical swords and daggers are made this way - penetration in the slash as well as stab. Additionally the blade is very strong for striking other blade weapons. The fetish with cutting paper with knives on CZcams does not translate into real world knife use. Anyone ( is there anyone left?) who chops wood knows that a flat or hollow ground axe sticks in the cut and doubles the work. This man has demonstrated very clearly that a convex ground edge requires a lot less work. Japanese guys know edge weapons...
Edwin Henry Blachford it's like comparing a screw driver to a hammer
Edwin Henry Blachford personally I think scandivex grinds are the best ,Dutch bushcraft knifes shows the advantages
Caide Lander Dutch bushcraft knives are awesome 😎 just sayin
My question is which is better for bushcrafting? Using the same knife for splitting branches and creating feather sticks, not for carving or taking out chunks of wood.
You're right. Convex edges are nicer for an axe. I use a 2-profile hatchet which has a wedge grind that merges to an elliptical edge. Elliptical edges are easier to achieve with things like flap wheels on angle grinders or with belt sanders that don't have a flat surface behind the belt. When it comes to personal knives, I go with elliptical and chisel. The elliptical knives vary in shape. The chisel knives are always tanto shaped and used for scraping/shaving.
Thanks very much for this over view. Both excellent knives; I like them both and I have them both. I am more subjective than you and would find it difficult to choose just one grind if I had to. Fortunately, I don't have to choose just one grind for all tasks. I enjoyed watching.
I like all of your video. I don't have time to watch everyone channel s but I do have time to watch the best. And that is why I watch your channel. Thank you for being my teacher.
I stand corrected. Just watched covex vs convex. Now I want a gunny. Thanks for great video
Excellent vlog!! Thank-you very much...
I believe it was your video on strop compounds(white and green)that helped me out.the convex seems to release from the cut more easily than the scandi. great videos,VERY well done. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
Brilliant demonstration love it thanks, convex is a personal preference happy to get a good video to convince my friends..
Both of these knives are flagship bushcrafters. The convex edge will give you a blunt axe like chopping action. Great for wood. Not that scandi isn't by any means. However, the Scandi, in my opinion is better for cleanning and skinning game. It's also better for intriqite work. The convex is better for heavy use. This is why the puukko is often carried with the larger Luukko knife.
Thank you for your hard work.
Nice test! Convex sure beat scandi in cuting of wood. But when you are whitling longer, scandi is better. With convex, when you use more power than usually, it cuts better than scandi with the same amount of power.
In scandinavia, hunters needed a wicked sharp knife for skining and wood cuting at the same time. All heavier works were done with axe. But anyway, as i said, nice test indeed!
Greetings from Finland!!!
Tanks for your channel! Great job knife man
Nice video. My main two knives have hollow and scandi grinds. I have become more fond of convex grinds though, I even pulled one out of mothballs a few days ago. The main disadvantage is that they take longer to sharpen, but they get extremely sharp. Other grinds though are much easier to sharpen in the field.
Thanks for the video.
in my opinion the scandi sets itself apart with its ease of sharpening, even in inexperienced hands
charlesissleepy true , but if your talking about whetstone sharpening I'd have to disagree since to achieve a convex you can just loosen up your hand
I think scandi are actually very hard to sharpen if you really try and preserve the ZERO grind, without creating a micro bevel . Convex on the other hand are much more easier ...
I think they both are/would be very easy. On the Scandi, you just lay the bevel on the stone and put some pressure on it, to make a microbevel, you'd have to make a little slip.. The Convex you kinda just have to do a rolling motion when pulling the edge over the stone..
It is actually very hard to maintain the perfect angle while applying pressure.
If doing it slowly it shouldn't be a problem. My Mora has a very small bevel compared to my Yanagiba, it is harder yes, but if you don't rush it, then it's fairly simple to keep it flat on the bevel.
Try that with a seasoned (dry) oak. The resolt will be different. A chisel is a half scandi. Have you ever seen half convex for a chisel?
great demonstration. helps a lot.
Great video! Thanks for sharing. :)
You are an impressive man when it comes to sharpening steel. Bark river needs to put you on payroll as you drum up a lot of business for them. Take care.
My favorite knife has a scandivex grind. I also own knives with true Scandi and flat grind (both with secondary v and secondary convex). They all have their purpose. I like the scandivex for wood because it gives similar bite like a Scandi but more control (i would say it feels like a certain kind of flow). I haven't ever had a knife with full convex grind. Would really love to try it.
Nice test and very usefull. Tx for sharing.
Ha, you took your sweet time cutting w/scandi while went turbo mode using convex for a merely 6 seconds faster. But thanks for showing. I have preference over neither.
Convex is proven better. Although they are just as useful, convex spreads while Scandi bites. One not being more useful than the other but convex holds an edge for forever. Katanas used this edge and they were made for piercing armor and crazy shit. They are truly the hardest to sharpen tho spend at least a day from no edge to razor like.
And it was like 20 seconds bro learn to count
Sharpening a katana the first time took much more than one day
@GrumpLord difference in cutting nd peircing
This is more personal preference than anything else. There are many other factors to consider besides just the edge of the knife. In my experience scandi is a better wood cutter than convex in most wood cutting scenarios. Convex can be a stronger edge though and can separate the wood more if that is what's needed. You should do this test with two identical knives with the different edges for more accurate results. And also make feather sticks. baton and carve a point on a stick. Nicely done!
I like the way you speak so directly and clearly when explaining the concepts. I enjoyed watching this! :)
Great video, it would be good to see that with a hollow grind and flat grind as well.
I knew Pekka's edge angle is fairly large after doing the following video of Scandi competition. The trigonometric calculator says its edge angle is 22 degrees inclusive while Enzo Nordic's angle is 15 degrees inclusive. Thanks.
Interesting demo. Yes for straight cuts a flat bevel is most efficient but a convex blade allows some steering while cutting which a woodcarver might appreciate.
Thank you: very informative! :-)
You have a beautiful mirror finish on your Pekka Tuominen blade. You obviously look after them very well. May I ask what you use to get such a mirror finish?
Pekka Tuominen comes in mirror finish from the maker. I did no care. But I already sold it off to get more of Bark River knives. Thanks.
In other words, you never sharpened it?
impressive, both very sharp edges
The reflection off of the scandi grind blade is not a perfectly flat mirror up to the edge (see 1:00). This is completely understandable if the sharpening is done by hand. I would say this video compares scandi-vex to convex.
I would like to meet someone who can resharpen a true scandi by hand over and over and not convert the grind to slightly convex.
What I use is a convex grind of very roughly around 22.5 degrees. I have developed a feel of the right sharpening angle, but because of the little inaccuracies in the process of sharpening my blades so fast, the blade ends up somewhat convex. I wouldn't say maintaining convex grind is 'complicated 'as long as you don't purposedly stray from the intended sharpening angle. But it takes practice, and in the beginning you will have to check your angle often. Eventually it will become a second nature
Thank you!
thanks for the response brother!
pretty much down to preference weaker edge easy sharpening. or strong edge harder sharpening. both very good edges
Please Do some feather sticks... that will be much more important for the we use these types of knife for. Very beautiful knives. And thank you!
Scandi slices better due to less resistance but convex applies more power so it really depends on the wood. So use convex for harder wood and scandi for softer wood but youre really "splitting hairs" imo.
Outside of that, convex is better all around except when it comes to sharpening.
In the field I carry two fixed blades, one with a saber convex and one with a scandi. Saber convex gets the harder tasks and scandi gets the easier tasks.
-No expert, just personal experience.
i didn't see this video before making my other comment Thankyou for doing this video.
Can you sharpen a convex edge on a flat whetstone? The biggest reason I prefer scandi is because it's so easy to sharpen, the scandi is the sharpening guide in itself, I'm still working on every other grind though.
When you move the blade on the flat stone, the bevel has to go slightly convex because your arm motion is a swing of the pendulum from your shoulder. For the reason you exaggerate the pendulum motion and you sharpen a convex edge.
Thank you.
the thing is that scandi is a grind for wood Carving, carving with a scandi edge it is easier than with a conve knife, in bushcraft you carve things rather that break or destroy the wood...in fact convex is a better wood spliter and breaker as the grind is meant to do just that, but when you try to carve something, convex does not stand a chance against scandi.
You went at a faster pace with the convex grind - I think that's a bias on your part.
And the knives themselves are also totally different not just their grinds. It wasn't a fair test.
@@justafloridamanfromthe75thRR its a saber vs convex sooo ofc the grinds are going to be different..to see what does what..
All he's doing is demonstrating that some grinds are better at certain jobs than others. A Scandi grind has better bite, so works better on less radical angles.
what is your convex grind angle?
I have just bought my first convex grind knife. Thank you for the explanation it is helpful to me. Cheers from Peace River Albert Canada!
I was wondering if you would have done feather sticking. My scandi Enzo Trapper 01 steel is the sharpest knife I have ever owned. It feather sticks like butter. My convex Ontario Blackbird 154cm is much more work to feather stick.Thus I was thinking your scandi would be better wood worker. At least for me it is at feathersticking.
How well does 15 and 22 degrees inclusive hold up?
Nice video
how do you sharpen a convex in the field though?
You really need to do a 100 cuts down to a marked line for both knives timed, the convex seemed to be a harder cut as part of your energy is used to push away the wood but the scandi just cuts though it.
Do you have the same results in hardwoods as opposed to softwoods? Also, how about for very light curling or featherstick making?
I currently do only featherstick making and baton splitting on natural hard wood. For the purpose I love 3.2mm thick slightly convex Scandi and 4.0mm thick high convex geometry which are Mora Garberg and Bravo1 LT. Thanks.
Excellent! Thank you for the great reply!
Harro , Knife otoko !
Just a remark : if the convex spreads the wood appart, it does it using energy/force, agreed? Yes, this energy comes from somewhere, your arm. So, it performs something more than Scandi, but at more cost.
Agreed?
Now, what would be interesting is to see if the more direct but less prolongated friction of the material on the blade's side with convex is a gain or a loss compared to the softer but continuous friction on the scandi's sides .
ya for sure, it would be way easier to cut all the way through like a stick with a scandi then a convex. A convex is more of a blunt edge so it would be very difficult to cut through something
If I'm abusing a knife, especially if chopping or batoning, I'll prefer a convex grind. If I'm making shallow carves into wood, I want Scandi. If I'm butchering meat, I want Flat or Saber grind. If making thin slices of fish, fowl, or vegetables, I want hollow grind, or flat grind, or perhaps a super narrow chisel grind. Convex will be the most durable form. And if I'm cutting a lot of something fibrous, such as rope, a serrated edge works well. I'd rather not resharpen a serrated blade. High saber grind might be the most versatile.
I think that scandi edge is a problem if you work with hard wood. Here in Brazil, i need put a micro convex bevel in all my scandi knives.
Nice knives and I think this gives people a pretty good look at what makes them different, but I think your conclusion is not based on empirical data (hard testing) but which knife you like betterer. You started the test with the scandi knife, took some time to set the watch down, pick up the knife and start cutting. You cut deliberately. With the convex grind you started the watch and were ready to go (I'd bet that was >5s of the difference, and then cut quickly and appeared to push harder.
I'm not saying that you deliberately rigged the test for the convex grind to win, but that you enjoy using the convex grind knife better and it shows, not to mention that even though you did choose a nice clear piece of wood and made your cuts fairly close together, it is a natural material which will have some inconsistencies. I wouldn't be surprised if you did a more controlled test if the results would be so close that it would be hard to tell. I honestly think that you could have done the same the other way around and had similar results favoring the scandi.
That all said, there is something to be said for just liking a knife better. I have knives that have everything I want and for some reason I just don't like them as much (and what really annoys me about them is that I spent 2-3x as much on them as some of the knives I like), and others that are flawed in ways and for one reason or another I love them and they're always in my pocket. The best knife in any situation is the knife that you're actually likely to have on you.
Well the convex grind is closer to an axe so it makes sense that it had a bigger bite. I mean you don't see scandi grind axes do you?
+Daniel De La Pena actually I've seen quite a few scandi grind axes. They always end up being a compound bevel once the owners re sharpen them, giving them a wider (if not as sharp) edge profile and better edge retention. You can also find some axes with a slight hollow grind out there if you look for them.
TaskMaster1983
Yes I agree the scandi grind generally has a sharper edge and convex has better edge retention. I personally have only scandi grind knives but I put convex bevels on them. This works well for me I also polish the bevel as this provides less friction and further helps with edge retention.
TaskMaster1983 - The only axes with scandi / hollow ground edges are “competition axes” which are used in chopping contest, they chop faster but not as long as your “user” convex edged axes.
I don't think I have ever experienced 15 degrees inclusive. Mora seems like having around 22 degrees inclusive and its 12C27 SS takes micro rolls even in this kind of light wood jobs. I like 25 degrees. Thanks.
Knife/tool makers are well aware of this difference. Example, Worksharp states in their manuals that the convex grind is "superior" to other grinds and is what they recommend.
Convex or scandi doesn't matter, the ability and skill that you have with your knife is what matters. Practice and become familiar with the knife you have
nice!
That same test took 32 seconds with a mora scandi blade
Jeremy Balkwill Because of being a thinner blade I'll wager. I'm a Scandi believer as I slice my kids' apples four times a day. My convex knives brake the slices as it's pushing through. lol
@@jeremiahshine take an opinel knife and a mora knife and cut an apple. I guarantee the scandi grind will not slice the Apple nearly as well. I don't know what kind of convex blades you're using or what kind of scandi grind that you're using but my results are the complete opposite of yours.
@@billpeart Mora Utility and Opi 1-12 Carbone... And Bark River Ansgar (A2), Kellam (very good with apples. Very soft steel)...Svörd Puukko (very good with slicing)etc...
Lots of other affordable blades. The Bark Rivers(Ansgar and JX-5) are the priciest. Mora in the kitchen. Opi slices best.
What kind of wood did you use?
Very soft pine from a home center. Natural pine is much harder.
Awesome video. Wonder how bravo 1 would do against f1.
Well said.
scndi to me is god to have for a small companion knife, it dont cut in this test b/c convex has a bevel that putts akind of friction whereas the quality convex cuts all the way through with know edge bevel to slow cutting.
Agreed!
You were cutting up your daughter's homework again!
These comparisons are useless to prove a point unless everything else but the grind is equal. These knives have different weights, the difference in handle ergonomics may also influence the results. A true test would use two knives of equal weight and exactly the same design apart from the difference in grinds. If the objective is to cut wood like this a convex edge will out perform a scandi edge. However, when it comes to controlled and precise cutting and bushcraft tasks the scandi edge is superior. In other words, the two grinds have their strengths and weaknesses which means that they are good for different things and a simple comparison like this doesn't really tell the full story. In the end each to his own, which grind is the best is a matter of preference.
I think you said it all.
What about a skandi vex edge where you combine them both?
Hand sharpened Scandi bevel is superb for whittling. It has a slight bounce from wood and glide in its superficial layer to make a thin and long feather. Bark River's Scandi-vex is just a low convex technically which is no good at whittling. Thanks.
virtuovice thank you for replying and your information, I do trust your knowledge sir! Stay sharp 😋
i love watching old asian men use round knives to cut square objects while breathing heavily. thank you
hey wake just wondering how you guys are doing with the nuclear re-actor? Hope you guys are far away from that mess. Wondering how its impacting the wild life?
Any how great video as usual
take care
A rolled up belt with stropping compound is just as easy to carry as a dc4.
wow that scandi can bite lol both those knives very nice
How about Buck 916 Bowie knife?
id kill to get that scandy lol.my bush knife is crap.trying to put a scandi edge on it from its double bevel from the factory.
buy a mora :D super inexpensive but good knives
WTF is a zero grind? I've been using, designing, and making knives for years, and I've never heard of such a thing. Is it another name for a Scandi, or something else entirely?
No matter what you show, people come to these videos with such severe bias that they see what they want to see. The type of grind does affect cutting ability. What you cut and how you cut it makes more of a difference, however. The ability of a convex grind to maintain its ability to cut longer than other grinds makes no difference IF a person judges the INITIAL time of creating a convex grind to be part of the equation. The F-1 COMES sharp. So... no difference. I have not had to SHARPEN my F-1 once. Only stropping the blade back to its previous condition is needed. VERY little time needed and no bother at all.
You pick a tool to do a certain job, just like each grind had a certain job
You've proved they don't compare to a hatchet.
Ten scandi výbrus je moc vysoký.
Your speed and pressure is not fair on the 2 test
that scandi knife was alot slower in this video than the scandi vs. scandal video wonder why that was ?
Scandis better for bushcraft. It gives you more control. Thats the purpose. It bites with control
Scandi is weaker in my opinion because it gives u a thinner edge it makes it more risky to things like chopping or hitting wood with the edge from certain distance of course that will mainly depend on the steel quality but with same steel type a scandi will always be weaker than convex grind by default simply because its thinner so unless ur planning on using ur knife only to carve wood yes the scandi wins but if u plan on chopping, batoning with ur knife convex is better u can prove that even with axes a axe with scandi grind often chips the edge breaks when u hit log as hard as u can while a convex grind changes the whole game its all because of the design of the grinds both are made for different usages from one another
You're not chopping with your bushcraft knife. Light batoning only. It's a bushcraft knife, not a survival knife. Bushcraft knives are generally a bit smaller. Chopping is what I'd use a bk9 for. Yes the convex is stronger but for a small utilitarian knife you can use for more things a flat grind is better. I use the scsndi as well as a small flat grind joker knife to skin and feather stick.
Is that convex knife also san mai?
Yes. That blade is Fallkniven's laminated VG10.
virtuovice Thought I spotted the weld line, thanks.
+virtuovice what kind of strop should I get?
I like to strop strongly on thin leather for convex geometry of the apex. I believe the convex apex is very tough. For the purpose I recommend you DLT XL Double Sided Paddle Strop.
Ryan Caiazza If you can afford it, you'll find a cheap 1" x 30" belt sander (around 50 bucks at Harbor Freight) fitted with a leather belt (another 25 or so) strops better than anything I've ever used. Light pressure on the platen with green chrome or other polishing compound works wonders.
スカンジナビアでは、何百もの戦争と厳しい生活によってナイフを正しく研ぐように教えられていました。
dont they call that a sabre grind... not a scandi? I thought a true scandi grind was the actual grind being twice the length of the thickness of the steel... for example.... a 1/8th thick blade will have a 1/4 inch grind. your blade appears to be sharpened 3/4"s up the blade. im probably wrong is why I mentioned. thanks for sharing
I don't always buy knives, but when I do, I buy bark river.... 😆
Yes but complex is so hard to sharpen. That's why the Japanese were the only ones to really do it because they had the time with the main jobs being in sword making.
All metal bladed wepon making peoples on earth used and sharpened convex blades from egypt to norway from the uk to japan. They all had convex bladed wepons at their fingertips and kept them sharp. Katana blades are jusp popular because of anime
Thats balsa!
Both are great knives. Tuominen is more beautiful :)
Scandinavian or convex sharpening has no bearing on me, but the hardness of the metal. The longer he holds his edge the better knife. Scandinavian sharpening is very prone to fractures. Who wants a knife in the woods today to play with woods?
Our new prime minister decided to run some reactors to supply electricity. We need to keep and improve our nuclear technology for our security for many aspects. Anyway deer and boars in the northern mainland are banned from eating officially. Hokkaido deer is okay. Thanks.
I prefer convex vs scandi too.....
Not much difference in real world use. I've found that different grinds mostly come down to intention, use case, technique and personal preference.
more handle test than anything else
the knife you reffer to having scandi grind is infact closer to flatgrind than scandi grind.
and its not what the flakes you take off the wood that counts, its whats left behind as thats the product your aiming to make.
in my opinion a real scandi grind is better than convex of the simple reason it has flat surfaces wich is easier to keep plane to the wood your working on and therefor you get a smoother and flatter surface after the cut and a convex you have to hold in exact angle to get plane
I didnt know dracula needed knives
Mirror edge until you sharpen it for the first time