Video

Yes, the 4.5 gallon tank can supply about 1 gallon of water before the pump comes on to feed icemakers and wash a toothbrush. But any demand larger than that will trigger the pump to start and the CSV will supply water as needed for as long as needed. Then when all faucets are turned off, the CSV filling the tank at 1 GPM starts a mechanical timer that keeps the pump on for another 30 seconds or a minute to make sure everyone in the house is finished with the water before the pump goes off. The size of the tank is not important. What is important is that the pump stays on until everyone is finished using water, and that is what the CSV does. A large tank would only benefit in that you could flush a toilet 4-5 times before the pump comes on. But that benefit is outweighed by having to wait for the big tank to empty while shower pressure is decreasing for 4-5 minutes before seeing the strong constant pressure from the CSV.

@@cyclestopvalves8380 I do see the benefit of the constant pressure, only that it may mean more pump cycles than with just using the large pressure tank.

@@cyclestopvalves8380 Thank you for your response. I’m am installing a well pump for a small 1000 square ft home. For a situation like this, with few people and fewer water needs, I am thinking that a large pressure tank will result in less pump cycles than using the csv. My reasoning is that most of the water use will be intermittent. A toilet is flushed and the sink is used to wash hands. Then a few minutes later, a few dishes rinsed and glass filled for drinking. A little later A pot is filled with water for cooking. Thena few minutes later Another bucket of water filled for cleaning. Etc. provided each use is a gallon or just over, and the uses are spaced out by several minutes the CSV with a small tank would cause the pump to cycle on each time. While with my large 86 gallon pressure tank, (holding maybe 20 gallons for use) all these uses might have been handled with just one pump cycle. Am I thinking right?

@@paulbach Nope. You will be surprised. The system with a CSV and a 4.5 gallon tank will cycle the same or less than using a 20 gallon size tank without the CSV. We have a chart made by a customer many years ago in our PK1A spec page. Won't let me give you a link here, sorry. But there is no comparison to the strong constant pressure, and the larger tank makes pressure worse.

@@paulbach Sure. Big tank maybe one or two cycles. But small tank and CSV maybe 4-5 cycles. Not big enough difference to justify the expense and problems associated with the large tank. Extra cost, space, and heat are needed for a big tank. Then a big tank causes water pressure to always be decreasing as water is being used, and stays at the low end of the 40/60 switch for a long time. With a CSV and the small tank, strong constant pressure happens instantly after the first gallon or two is used, and you get the benefits of a mechanical soft stop. (no water hammer) This has been discussed in ad nauseum for over 30 years. The fact that we are still successful at this after 30 years should tell you something. You will notice we recommend a 10 gallon size tank when there are many uses and/or users in the house. Where you would get 20 gallons draw from an 80 gallon size tank, the 2.5 gallons drawn from a 10 gallon tank is not its main purpose. Sure the 2.5 gallons will flush a toilet or fill the ice maker all week without the pump cycling. But rarely is a toilet flushed only once, and rarely do people wait a few minute in between someone else having used water. When people in a house are up and getting ready for work/school water will be used every minute or so, somewhere in the house, until everyone is out the door or settled down. Same thing in the evening. So, the 2.5 gallons in the 10 gallon tank is filled at 1 GPM with the CSV and becomes a mechanical timer. The CSV doesn't let the tank even start filling until the toilet is finally full, then with the CSV set at 50 on a 40/60 switch the tank will take about 1.5 minutes to fill to 60 PSI so the switch can shut off the pump. During this minute and a half of pump run time, if anyone, anywhere in the house uses any water, the 1.5 minute timer starts again. So, if you stand there and flush a toilet 1000 times in a row, the pump only cycles once. When everyone in the house is up and using water the pump may run continuously for an hour or two, instead of cycling 7-8 times as it would with just a large tank. Knowing that the CSV is better for the pump/motor/tank/switch/check valve/space, cost, everything, is one thing, but the strong constant pressure for nearly every water use is so much better than the 40 to 60 over and over that people tell me they no longer even need soap in the shower. 🙂

Usually yes. It is rare for a house pump to be so oversized that it builds more than 200 PSI on the inlet. But it is possible. Knowing the horsepower or amperage drawn and checking to see how many gallons a minute you can catch in a bucket will tell us what size pump you have. Or, you can just put a gauge and a ball valve on the pump and test for pressure.

@@cyclestopvalves8380I see, thanks for the reply.

NO, it will not Tom. The CSV with the same size tank will always, always reduce the number of pump cycles. In many cases the CSV working with a much, much smaller tank will still reduce the pump cycles more than a large tank without a CSV. But it is also called a "constant pressure valve", because you get strong constant pressure in the showers and sprinklers no matter what size pressure tank you use with the CSV. If you had a CSV you would know, because you wouldn't even need soap in the shower. Lol!

If any thing we said was "misleading" we wouldn't still be in business some 30+ years later. If with a big pressure tank you can use 20 things before the pump comes on, using a CSV with a small tank will save that many cycles during three showers or a sprinkler in the yard on for an hour or so. Although you can use a CSV with any size tank and have both 20 uses before the pump comes and AND no cycling for longer uses, the larger tank is still a waste of money and space.

It is just a simple valve that closes or modulates flow at a set pressure. Controls the flow by maintaining a constant pressure. Pressure decreases, valve opens. Pressure increases, valve closes. Guess I need to make a video showing a valve opening and closing. Sorry! But for such a simple and useful valve it has a complicated explanation.

You need the Cycle Sensor to protect your well pump from running dry. The Cycle Stop Valve would go on the booster pump to keep it from cycling to death and to deliver strong constant pressure to the house.

They work great with things like evap coolers. If the flow needed is less than 1 GPM a little larger pressure tank is needed, like 20-40 actual gallon size (5-10 gallon draw) . But on large cooler systems where the demand is more than 1 GPM, the small tank is all that is needed.

@@cyclestopvalves8380 thank you, i will receive one of your kits during today!

The Cycle Stop Valve prevents the stop/start like city driving which is like having an automatic transmission for your pump that lets you use water anyway you want, without the continual stop and go of the old pressure tank system.

cyclestopvalves.com

It is the other way around. The SQE was introduced in 1999 to compete with the constant pressure of the Cycle Stop Valve that was introduced in 1993. They wanted something to produce constant pressure that would not make pumps last forever like a CSV. The CSV and variable speed pump both vary the flow and deliver constant pressure. The PWM or pulse width modulator, which is a VFD, is like a Rube Goldberg contraption compared to the simple Cycle Stop Valve. The mechanical CSV does in one simple step what a VFD takes thousands of bits and bytes and components to computerize and line up correctly to accomplish the same task. I agree you need a soft start if you are forced to live on solar. But you don't need variable speed to get soft start. The SQE pump is just a full speed SQ pump when a simple pressure switch is used instead of the CU301 controller. But it still has the 5 second soft start built into the motor. The SQ pump has become fairly reliable even though it spins 3 times as fast as a normal pump. It is the CU301 most people have problems with and have to expensively replace on a regular basis. That is when most people find us as they are looking for an alternative to the CU301. Amazingly, the SQ pump has almost as good of a drop in amps when restricted with a CSV as when slowed with the CU301 (VFD). Replacing the CU301 with a Cycle Stop Valve and normal pressure switch makes the SQ pump many times more reliable and long lasting. As neither the SQE or Aquavar are "tankless" like the ones you quoted me discussing, the existing little tank will also be fine with the CSV. I like "rare" systems. I have never seen one where the CSV couldn't do as good or better than a VFD. Yes, the CSV is more economical, but it is also simpler and makes pumps last longer than a VFD. You also won't loose the soft start feature when replacing the CU301 with a CSV. And although soft start is helpful with inverters or generators, varying the speed with a VFD causes the pump to use more Kw per gallons produced. You get more gallons per Kw from your solar or batteries if you use a full speed pump to fill a pressure tank as quickly as possible and let the pump shut off. A VFD is just a Rube Goldberg gimmic when it comes to pumping water. cyclestopvalves.com/pages/vfd-repair-kit

Lol! Lubbock is not a place many people go to. Would certainly feed you if you show up. :)

Sorry but a Cycle Sensor sees a broken pipe as just someone using water somewhere and lets the pump keep running. However, it the leak causes the well to pump dry it would see that and shut the pump off, which is what it is made to do.

@@cyclestopvalves8380 Understood. But on the Cycle Sensor, does it have a logging capability?

@@tootalldan5702 No logging. The Cycle Sensor is older more reliable electronics and was made before logging was even thought of.

cyclestopvalves.com/collections/cycle-sensor-pump-monitors

Thank you very much! It would be good if you could post that on some of the 13 videos "Larry" made about the CSV. He has me blocked and also deletes replies from anyone that tries to correct his misguided delusions of how pumps work. I am not sure Larry is still alive as he has not deleted or replied to several people who corrected him in the last year or so like he usually does. I was worried there was something wrong with him as he obviously wasn't thinking correctly when he made all those inaccurate videos. But even if he is no longer alive CZcams will never take down his liable and slanderous videos because they get more clicks for fake news than real news.

Thanks again for saying this where it needed to be said! 😊

You're welcome. I'll post on a few more. But I hate giving his videos "clicks". Talked to Sam yesterday by the way. He helped me out with a new order. I'll try and shoot and post a video on the project I am working on when the new unit comes in.

@@DieselMike Thanks again! Don't think he is getting credit for the clicks anymore. Maybe his wife is getting them. I don't think he is alive anymore or he would have deleted what you posted. Until about a year ago he deleted every post where someone rightfully contradicted him. I guess those 13 videos will forever be his legacy. I would hate to be remembered for being so wrong and have made so many videos to prove it. 🥴

Texted you. Waiting to hear back. Cary

The CSV principle is the same no mater if the pump gets its water from a city water line, well, lake, river, or storage tank.

Sorry. Thought I answered this. The CSV1A is designed to handle some sediment, so it won't be a problem before the filter. You might be surprised how much using the CSV to eliminate all that cycling will help with the sediment problem. Every time the pump cycles it is also surging the well up and down.

Yes, except some of those motors say "not for continuous duty". Only pump/motor I ever saw that says that. The Cycle Stop Valve takes all the jerking and cycling out, but I think these pumps are still made for light use. I wouldn't leave it running for hours on an irrigation system like with other pumps.

Yes. That is why we check those things when recommending a CSV. But usually there is only 30-50 PSI more on the pipe than the normal pressure that happens because of the depth of the well and the pressure on the pressure switch. If the pump is 260' deep when the pressure switch gets to 60 there is 175 PSI on the pipe at the bottom of the well, even without a CSV.

Way better than a VFD. The CSV varies the flow rate and lowers the amp draw while giving the same strong constant pressure as a VFD. But it is just a simple, inexpensive, long lasting, mechanical valve. The CSV cost thousands of dollars less and makes the pump last decades longer than a VFD or a big pressure tank. Gee, I wonder why some pump companies will say anything to keep you from trying a CSV? Lol!

Thank you! Yeah I should never tell someone who claims to be an engineer that they don't know what they are talking about. They think they already know everything and get really angry. Lol! Guy is off his rocker! But CZcams will never take his misinformation, slander, and liable statements off their site, as they get many times more clicks for fake news than real news. Never trust CZcams!! Do your own research.

Haters gonna hate, And like you said, you just can't fix stupid😂 But seriously, Thank you for all the excellent info! Can't wait to try out this new system, my mother's CU301 w/ sqe pump lasted for 15years w/ out issue until now. Pump took a crap, decided to change to CSV, Jesus those Grundfos pumps are expensive! So far, I've spent only about half of what a new pump would've cost me, on basically a whole new system. Can't wait to get it up and running, Thanks again!

Back pressure is good for the pump, cannot be any more than your pump can make, and the CSV itself has a limit. I only know of one idiot who blew off the incoming pipe, he just posted it on Amazon, which we do not do business with, so they keep that post up top. Lol. If your pump lasted 23 years without a CSV, it would last 40-50 years with one. We have only done this about a million times over the last 30 years. So, look at your pump curve, figure out how little back pressure it can build, get over your concern, and start enjoying strong constant pressure instead of seeing that pressure go up and down over and over and over.

Lol! A pressure regulator would deadhead and burn up the pump in about 5 minutes. There is no "lag time" between on and off. The CSV only lets the pump shut off when you have completely stopped using any water. It does work sorta like a pressure regulator, it just makes sure there is always sufficient flow to keep the pump/motor cool. A little change to a pressure regulator makes all the difference.

With a 40/60 switch that is about right. 35-38 would be perfect, but 30 is not worth worrying about.

Off time should be irrelevant as the pump should stay off until you use water and never go off while you are using water. If not, you have a bad check valve or a hole in the pipe. If it is coming on before the pressure drops to 40 there maybe something wrong with the pressure switch. Having more air pressure in the tank than the start pressure for the pump will cause a water hammer and a momentary delay in water from the faucets.

Thank you! And you can hang a submersible in a large diameter well like that by attaching the tee at top to a couple pieces of angle iron, square tubing, or something stretched across the mouth of the well.

It is just 4 wires, the same as a pressure switch. If you haven't installed it yet, how do you know anything about setting the numbers? The numbers are also easy to set. Call me and I can talk you through it in less than 5 minutes. It also shows more of the wiring on the installation video here. czcams.com/video/E6NWBIzZiOE/video.html

Thank You!

Thanks for the update. I hope and expect you to still be saying the same thing in another 20 years.

I know right? It really is that simple. I don't know why someone who claims to be an engineer cannot figure out that amps drop when the flow of a centrifugal pump is restricted. Leaf blower, blow drier, vacuum cleaner, almost anything similar to centrifugal pump will do the same. The misconception that VFD's are good for pumps and are the only way to reduce the amp draw is costing people of the world 27 billion dollars a year. The VFD is the best tool ever devised to further manufacturers planned obsolescence and keep the cash flowing through these big corporation. I am all for capitalism and profit, but not at the expense of the average person being hoodwinked.

No. Actually just the opposite is true. Amps decrease as the flow decreases. Restriction with a valve makes the pump work easier, not harder. But you are not alone in thinking that. It is so counter intuitive that it even blows the minds of many engineers. Since CZcams refuses to remove misinformation, you can find several videos from an "engineer" who makes himself look like an idiot on this subject. He apparently doesn't know how to read a pump curve, which pump curves show the power decreases with flow. But stopping a fan with his finger or watching amps from some kind of strange positive displacement pump shows his complete lack of education on how a centrifugal pumps works. There are many people with whole house sensing systems that have posted the amp drop when using a Cycle Stop Valve. But any amp meter will prove it for you.

@@cyclestopvalves8380 OK, what would happen if you completely close the valve so there is no flow but keep the pump on. What would happen to the power consumption of the pump compared to no restriction to flow?

@@cyclestopvalves8380 The guy making videos about your product does seem like a little obsessive. It would be easier to take your product and design seriously if you took the highroad and just stood on your/it's merits.

@@rogerg4916 Closing a valve before the pressure tank/pressure switch would deadhead the pump. That would cause the amps to drop really low and the pump to continue to run until the water got hot and melted down the pump. Then the amps would spike and trip the overload in the motor. Closing a valve after the pressure tank/pressure switch the CSV would slowly fill the pressure tank until the pump shut off at the required pressure.

@@dmills13F The guy is not just a little obsessive, he is totally nuts. It is hard to take the high road anymore. I have been dealing with idiots like him for 30+ years and am out of patience with stupid people. Anyone who believes a word he says is stupid as well, and I have no patience for them either. It is illegal and against CZcams rules to post false information. But they get more clicks from fake news than real news , so they won't do anything about it. CZcams needs to be fixed and do what they say they will do!!

Lol! Even 1-2 minutes of run time isn't enough. That is just the minimum. With a CSV the pump will run for as long as you are using water, then 1 more minute to fill the tank. You don't have to worry about "cycle duty" on a pump when it has a Cycle Stop Valve. Although you can use any size pressure tank you want with a CSV, even with the small tank there really is no way, as in no amount of flow for any length of time that will make the pump cycle repeatedly, which is what destroys most pumps. Cycle Stop Valves make pumps last many times longer than normal, not the other way around.

Thank you! I believe there have only been 3 people in the last 30 years who couldn't see the advantage of the CSV. Don't know how they can see, hear, feel a pump short cycle like in 30 seconds and think that is OK? Enjoy the constant pressure and you shouldn't even have to think about your water system again for 20-30 years.

Because the only problem with the old pressure tank only method is the numerous on/off cycles of the pump. Adding a simple Cycle Stop Valve solves that problem and makes the old pressure tank method much more dependable, long lasting, and deliver much stronger constant pressure to the house.

@Cycle Stop Valves But if you run water for any time longer than a few minutes that would force the pump to run longer.... A pump isn't a light bulb, leaving it on continuously isn't a benefit like with a simple electric filament. A pump is a machine. Long runtime is worse for the pump regardless of how many times it's turned on or off. This is why tractors have an hour keeper on them. The runtime is what decreases it's value and indicates wear and needed upkeep or repairs. This is why we have an odometer in our cars and not an on/off counter. The odometer is a better reading of actual runtime because runtime is the issue, not on/off cycles...... I mean, sure, it seems the CSV would help regulate flow in a system with proper expansion tank(s) set up, but it seems pretty unnecessary when you have those tank(s) in place and properly sized. Idk, just seems like an extra breakable part in a system that already has enough of them.

@@elib9002 Pumps are made to run continuously 24/7/365. says so right on the side of the motor. Pumps are completely frictionless when up and running and will run forever without any wear. I have a pump feeding a stock tank that hasn't shut off since it was installed in 1999. It is the cycling on and off that destroys pumps. I think you will find that if you start a tractor a 100 times a day it will not last very many hours either. The wear on a motor happens on start up before the oil is circulating. Truck drivers know to keep their engines running if they want their truck to last. Starting is bad on most all equipment. The pump and bladder in a tank are the "breakable" parts of the system, and the tank breaks from the bladder going up and down too many times from the pump cycling way more than it should. You cannot install enough pressure tanks to do what a Cycle Stop Valve does. Just like a light bulb, a pump will last longer if it is never turned off. The Cycle Stop Valve is a simple and robust piece of equipment that is not going to fail, and will keep the tank, pump, and everything else in a pump system from failing prematurely.

@Cycle Stop Valves Yah...... that's outright false. I just checked mine and there is no such label exists...... And there is no such thing as frictionless.

@@elib9002 Lol! On the motor label it says "Duty Cont" for continuous. Also look up the Kingsbury thrust bearing for proof of frictionless. Your being confrontational. This is your last chance to learn anything from me as I will delete this unless you start asking nicely. Lot of hater's for no reason out there, and you sound like one? I am too old to put up with any more crap! Have a nice day.

After the CSV the line tees off to the pressure tank, and it can also tee off to irrigation, paddock, sprinklers, or anywhere water is needed.

Correct. If water comes out the air valve on a pressure tank the diaphragm or bladder is torn.

Thank you! Then you might also like this one as well. czcams.com/video/4GhE-1Midgc/video.html

Yes the CSV1A can be adjusted from 15 to 150 PSI. With the CSV you only need a little 4.5 gallon size pressure tank when using pressure lower than 50/70.

@@cyclestopvalves8380 this water system is for supplying 11 houses. Thats about 110gal per minute in peak time. I notice its rated up to 25gpm

@@thisisme7984 That is even a better example of why you need a Cycle Stop Valve. Planning for a peak flow of 110 GPM is great for 11 homes. However, they will probably never use more than about 50 GPM at any one time. A 2" CSV model CSV3A2T will work with a pump that can produce up to 150 GPM. With a regular 40/60 pressure switch a CSV will deliver 55 PSI constant and work with a 86 gallon size pressure tank, even though an 80 gallon tank only holds 20 gallons of water. The CSV will deliver strong constant 55 PSI for peak demands up to the max 110 GPM, supply a single shower for a single person during off peak hours, or anything in between.

@@cyclestopvalves8380 are you saying i need a 50gal+ pressure tank or just clarifying what it will handle? I thought a 10gal pressure tank is enough

@@thisisme7984 10 gallon tank is enough for the smaller pumps/CSV's and maybe up to 3-4 houses. But 11 houses and a 110 GPM pump would require at least a 44 gallon size tank, and an 86 gallon tank is better and has the same size footprint. The 86 is just twice as tall as a 44. With 11 houses you need 20 gallons of draw down as comes from am 86 gallon size tank to handle some toilet flushes and things during times the pump is off. Funny thing is, if you had maybe 50 or more houses the pressure tank could be smaller because it is unlikely the pump will ever shut off as there is always some demand with that many houses. When there is as little as 3 GPM even the 2" Cycle Stop Valve will keep the pump running to supply what is needed.