Ukraine: Rifle Periscopes Return
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- čas přidán 23. 03. 2024
- With the war in Ukraine's current trench-bound stalemate often resembling the First World War it isn't too surprising to see an early 20th century innovation making a comeback. Several variations on the concept of a periscope rifle have been seen in Ukraine since the summer of 2023.
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Check out the accompanying article for this video here: armourersbench.com/2024/03/22/periscope-rifles-in-ukraine/
The web peephole for the door on Aliexpress has a price of about 12 dollars 😆
World War 1: Remastered (Now with Drones!)
less gassy
@@andrewroberts7428the physics simulation has been optimized since WWI - now there are less death particles flying around, they are just more accurate (/j)
@@andrewroberts7428Publishers expect gamers to pay more for old games while not even including all the content.
This war is a joke compared to the carnage that was WW1
@@agentjohnson3973I mean shit it’s a different type of carnage now. Nowhere to hide , not even in your trench. Deadly accuracy. Under surveillance from either side. Laying on a field wounded waiting for help when a fpv ends your life. Death is even more random now.
The only thing missing now are dummy doll and fake trees.
Have seen a photo of a DNR trench with a dummy just last week.
And a rifle operated by hole-pinched tin cans full of water
Fake trees were rad
@@BoraHorzaGobuchulwe won't see any fake trees till after the war. The originals were classified for a reason.
Also in the market for a mock-up dead horse to hide inside of.
Inertia in conflict always brings a reassessment for "obsolete" tactics or technology.
interestingly, what originally made trench warfare "obsolete" were tanks
and in this war, tanks were made less cost-effective due to javelins and drones
and when Russian air superiority is also denied, we're back to trench warfare again
I think they have missed the 2 axis periscope design.
Please contact me for the napkin schematics.
Surely, a main base(economical supported base), with a user supported second leg at ~45 degress to the rear with stock, pistol grip and forward grip. Add in common periscope and folding mechanism would be ideal. Operator supports sideways movement, everything else accounted for(lowering mechanism and periscope), increasing accuracy and sustained fire? Though, I'm no genius or weapons savant, please take that into account.
@@Kensuke0987 Unfortunately Russia is starting to be able to establish localized Air Superiority. Its mostly how they took avdiivka, Some 600 sorties of dropping ordinance will destroy any defense.
What inertia? Lol
Was bro using a steamdeck to fire that mounted weapons platform? Can't imagine what controller drift does to someone's actual k/d in real life.
my gun doesn't fire accurately, volvo pls fix
A bunch of them wwre donated/seized for/by ukraine iirc
The free hand ones loom better for trenches, whereas the ones mountained to poles with a base would probably work better in urban enviroments where you can have it on hard flat ground
the first one can be carried around more easily. even easier if it was made of a suitable plastic. the others are dead end inventions.
I like the first one
Having to step over the tripod leg when you're panning with your face pushed into the periscope seems like an accident in waiting.
@@cole_chase Having it stationary like that is just begging for mortar strike or MGL barrage into the trench. With first one you can relocate in seconds, since you dont have more than second when MGL or mortars opens up and even then you better pray it not direct hit into trench.
@@Hellsong89It's 1 service rifle and a stand... it's not a huge loss to just ditch it, just because the stand can't be moved instantly doesn't mean the user is locked to it lmao.
Here’s a strictly algorithmic comment. I have nothing to add but I enjoy your content.
Very much appreciated! 😃
I like these periscopes with the "St.Javelin"-sticker on them.
cringe
@@DCresident123 Ultra cringe
Me too
Pure cringe
@@DCresident123 butthurt ruZZian? 🤣
We'll be seeing romboid shaped tanks next...
Boy do I have news for you
Damn I never would’ve thought I would see someone using a steam deck to control a turret… (at this point they just made a proto sentry gun)
Sentry going up!
Lol was that a _steam deck_ @ 4:06?
Haha yes!!
@@TheArmourersBench Also the "tarantula" sentry gun is from warhammer 40k... When gamers go to war....
Relatively small and portable, has controller sticks most younger men are familiar with and an integrated screen, is commonly available. So why not
Haaa is it. Nerds, love it.
@frederik313 and it's cheap too!
"Everything old is new again".
As are all things Under The Sun.
I could see these being used, but not widely (both the periscopes and manjack remote guns). One big dif from WW1 is that back then there weren't precise direct-fire or indirect fire weapons with enough oomph to take out bunkered periscope positions. Now this is likely to draw an ATGM, an arty smart round, a tank round, a drone drop or FPV attack, etc.
I mean depending on the range limits for the remote machine guns, it might be good if it could be set up decently far from where the operator is hiding. that way atleast a precision strike aimed at the gun wont kill the operator.
Bring back the drip (rifle)!
Pee jokes never die
@@FarmerDrew ? its not a reference to pee. Its a reference to the rifle systems used to evacuate Gallipoli - where the trench periscope was first used (and patented).
@@tileux they worked by dripping urine
@@tileux you could fill the top ration can with water but that was scarce and so they used what was not scarce
Next, I wanna periscope RPG
I give that a 60% chance of happening.
@@TheArmourersBench I like those odds already
Periscope SPG-9 or bust.
Bro out here casually making modern horrors.
Also imagine this but on cod
Already have it, google "Stygna"
The “stabilising front grip” is a simple yet clever upgrade to that design
History repeats itself
Another brother war
As always…
Doesn't appear they're actually in use
It does rhyme
@@josedorsaith5261 don't call them brothers
Great video. Very interesting to see the return of periscopes attached to small arms due to the prolific trench warfare that they’re experiencing.
это бесполезно
As I remember one remote mg was used in one ukrainian position (front position in Avdeevka under some bridge)
Quite rare so far, probably see more of them over time.
Not something that is probably advertised.
Much like the Stugna P, or whatever their remote version of the TOW is, I imagine there are quite a few out there, just not talked about.
@@superdave4564 Yeah, It`s true, that why the only one example was shown by Russians, after capture of position under collapsed brigde (between T-05-05 interchange and interchange near ahronafta). Russians were very suprised, when they found out that remote mg halted them (they bombed it so hard with arty and fabs, that I doubt that any human would survived this)
@@theognistyheros True, how ever your defense will fall moment there is just one sup quality round in a belt or other malfunction. Its then some poor sod who has to run in there under fire and clear the malfunction... witch after the miracle of getting back into safety, not that enemy knows you are there. Smoke would be used in such situation but still rather harrowing thought. That is one of the biggest issues i have with remote controlled weapon systems including drones. Same with autoloaders, how ever much i do like them in principle.
@@Hellsong89 Yeah, It`s problem, but this remote mgs are mostly used in placed that you could get from trench. Using this outside of fortifications is inconvenient as you pointed out
the German MG3 has a periscope attachment for use on a tripod already. The tripod allows for easy horizontal and vertical movement while the shooter is below.
It is cumbersome but works.
Could it be also used by tanks too?
@@marknerfandtankvlogs I would imagine a tank with an MG3 coax would be installed completely differently, I believe the German Leopards use the MG3. But search "german mg3 periscope" and you can see something similar to the idea in this video.
Love all your videos, could you do one on how some units are attaching nuts ect to rpg rounds
Imagine being gunned down by a Nintendo Switch. 😂
Weapon equipped with thermal scope, would be a nice combo. Aim weapon using smartphone and a extension to the weapons trigger to take the shot.
I wonder if any of them have used the old decoy head trench trick yet… (it was used to locate enemy snipers)
Looks like it won't be long until we see full auto drip rifles 😂
Great work. Thanks for sharing
Thanks this makes a lot more sense than my previous hypothesis of a ghost having picked up an AK and shot at me.
Thank you so much!
For people wondering, the reason why these aren't used right now is because soldiers aren't fighting traditional trench warfare. There is no massive battalions on two side with a no man's land in the middle. Attacks are swift and coordinated, and so are the defenses. There is a famous Ukraine video of a man fighting in trenches, and it simply too chaotic and fast paced to warrant the use of a periscope.
These definitely aren't for that sort of combat that's for sure.
4:05 i cant believe they got the wrangler on their team
Periscope rifles...bet those Maxim machine guns they are still using feel right at home, ha. Also, periscope rifles and WWI machine guns next to electronically fired auto-turrets and drones really shows how this conflict is combining some of the oldest weapon systems and some of the newest.
The most common periscope is the one for the MG3, hard to notice as it's rather short but works well in prone position behind cover.
They could biuld something with mirrors 2 be able 2 see without sticking there heads up 2 but you can use sound 2 locate enemies
The weapon to counter this rifle periscope is the mortar. The anti-sniper weapon is the tank.
Yeah, they sacrifice a bit of mobility.
@@sbarmiueenl Yes, they do. So does the rifle periscope.
Why dont they add an extended mag or a drum if theyre just going to sit there and pretend to be a turret all day
Come on, periscope. By now we are using a robotic platform Rys (Lynx) with an automated turret Shablia (Saber). An AI variant is coming soon, hopefully. Drones are getting machine vision and automatic targeting too.
They're discussed at the end of the video!
@@TheArmourersBench ok, sorry, still watching.
@@tech477 Quite alright, right to point them out! They're definitely the future.
Are they mud and ice proof 😂😂
@@ThomasLoganHill what?
Awesome! I've wondered about this ever since trench-warfare became common in Ukraine. In practice, I think such a mount would have to be of a similar pattern to those used in WW1 (although made from aluminium). Anything larger would be too restrictive for use in small trenches. Also, weapons used should be restricted to semi-auto fire as they are essentially short-ranged sniper weapons.
plus ça change!
what about fitting in or on buildings with a remote control like fpv drones to buy enough time to get they guys to relocate rather been over run or help with casualty evac cover
it's like a remote turret on humvees lol
Wired remore turrets are very interesting
Always though they should just mount a camera that can see infered looking down the sights and aim it with the camera linked to blue tooth phone view of what the camera is looking at.
its pretty odd its taken this long for an automated stationary weapon "turret" to be developed and possibly used. All the tech is there, you could make it pretty cheaply too if you are clever. cover it with camo and leave it somewhere you think an enemy will advance from, you now have an early warning system, and it can deter or harm the threat. like a multiple use landmine really.
It's not automated as there still is someone controlling it. Fully automated one would be a friendly fire nightmare.
Field of view/finding targets would be fkd to say the least.
Difficulty in movement makes soldiers using a periscope an easy target for a drone. In this day and age small attack drones make more sense.
So many years of training in army and learning new techniques only to realize that in real war you gonna just shoot randomly from a trench somewhere in the direction where enemies are.
untill someone reinvents stormtroops, and bit later someone reinvents the blitz
What is the rifle at 3:20? Just a 104 with traditional furniture? That thing is clean.
There really should be more emphasis placed in this area. A remotely operated weapon in numbers could be a real force multiplier. Say a platoon has 4 remotely operated stations one each could be placed covering the forward flank approach. Have 2 covering the middle. Each would have a camera feed going back to a secure dugout. One operator alone could run stations. Also make sure to booby trap each station so if they’re over run when an Orc goes to move or see how one operates gets shredded.
The only good thing that’s come out of the war is electronics such as servos, drivers and controllers have decreased in price after an initial price spike.
Gonna borrow on of my dads AKs to see how easy it could be to make.
Sure, but without ears and a good rotating camera it will not suffice as real defence. And the booby traps will create headaches when supplying more amunition, repairing it, clearing malfunctions etc.
Please do not create such systems at home, it is not good if civilians make such systems as they are easily used for terrorism and mass shootings.
I bet it's a lot harder to spot people from hundreds of meters away when you're looking at a little screen.
@@Jake-bt3fc Ofc that depends on what type of camera, lens and gimbal you use, but in general yes, and unless you have a studio microphone you will not hear the enemy at all.
Thanks Steam with their Steam Deck for providing a great device for remote controlling turrets
Very capable system, would love to know more about their use. Opsec around it is probably pretty tight though
What about a hybrid system that ditches the parascope tube and replaces it with 2 cameras?
One for the shooter to look through that transmits imagery from the one next to the gun.
This way you wouldn't have to fiddle with a tube and would allow for sights more variable in height.
What would matter most is that the camera by the gun is aligned specifically.
Yes this would use a battery and require some audio visual equipment knowledge but it would allow for more versatility.
Also you'd still have the stand.
One on zoom scope as gun sight and second for general area, though human eye can see better than camera in such situation, is what i have seen in airsoft side of things. You cant see opponent in the video but eyeball mk1 can, so that might be issue. If general area camera was thermal it would notice targets and gun sight camera should be in target if both have been adjusted correctly, allowing rapid shots. How ever this would increase cost and complexity of the systems. Its like in winter war, you cant beat in price peace of log in tracks and molotov cocktail on the engine room.
@@Hellsong89 Based on that do you think my idea is good overall?
@@CacowninjaIt was already done in Syria. Where a remote turret would be set up, then cables would run away from that room and remote operated from a gaming rig, so when tanks took out that room they only took the gun. Right now Ukraine isnt sedentary enough. Putin has endless personnel so the cost of human life is too low for it to be a deterrent, imo as well as Russians ability to monitor the battle field and call in an accurate strike from artillery or whatever. In the initial phase of invasion it worked to take out high value mechanized targets tho. Theyre dropping infantry on the ground like a minor deterrent and speed bump in modern warfare.
Periscopes like the basic optical types being used are much cheaper than digital cameras. They don't need batteries, which, at times when they are needed most, have the annoying tendency to fail.
@@gantz4u That's not what I was saying exactly.
I was talking about cameras replacing the periscope. Not an remote turret.
Rifle periscopes were a great little Australian invention. What’s surprising is that modern rifles with their extended magazines require a shooter to expose much more of themselves, that a periscope sight hasn’t been implemented in Ukraine already.
WW2 was much more mobile than WW1. Today, the ordnance of old that forced armies below ground is playing tag while precision long distance bombs and missiles are bringing trench warfare back.
The concept was around before Australia was made up.
@@joeds3775 Yeah, concept. Someone had to make a concept which in battle instead of on paper.
@@seanlander9321 Romans.
@@joeds3775 Give over.🥱
Interesting and well made video.
The Sabre remote weapons station is just asking to be mounted on the back of a robotic dog like Spot, or maybe a Chinese knockoff. The humans would still be doing the aiming and trigger pulling. The dog just repositions the system. The things could hunt in packs.
thats nice footage to edit out the rifle periscope and then rename the video:
"my game glitched out, weapon levitates above my head."
Nice, but this gives me a question.
Would this work with night vision?
The Aussie have always came up with the best inventions.
We still wait to see next gen "Land warrior" kit
Well exposed heads are still vulnerable to bullets, so yeah it very relevant tech still
Great video new subscriber here 😊😊😊😊
Oh cool, thank you, lots of earlier videos to check out if you get time.
@@TheArmourersBench yes I will , I came here via 'Irish shooting channel' we had been talking about the siege at jadtotiville...sorry spelling...the Irish army and the part of the film when the sniper ditches the lee enfield in favour of the bren....and he pointed me to your channel.....and the video you did on it, good stuff 🙂🙂
I feel like using these would just be asking to be fpv droned
Yeah so you would rather lose a human gunner and a machine gun rather than just a machine gun
@@person4436bro do you know what a fpv drone is
@@grzyb11 yes I do, that's why I said that a remote controlled machine gun is better because if you would throw an fpv drone at it you wouldn't lose a human
@@person4436 it’s not remote controlled
A camera on top with a monitor below setup with a tripod would mean only your hand was exposed but would be light and you could use it as a normal machinegun.
Mechanical extension to trigger and handle would not take much to add and easy to manufacture. Its loading and clearing the malfunction that cant be done that well remotely.
That's amazing
We've come full circle
Из-за отдачи пули будут лететь неизвестно куда. Такой штукой разве что пугать врага, чтобы он думал, что по нему реально стреляют. 🤣
Hmm, I expected more trouble with recoil, but it doesn’t seem that bad
Sounds cool. That made sense when WWI machine gun was in a hole to give more protection, not so much with AK that loses all the mobility.
Almost no practical uses. A static AK with questionable utility.
Could be useful for some ATG weaponry or sniper rifles for some long range action without exposing yourself.
Probably suffers a lot of accuracy tho.
My memory as BF1 scout.
If they put this in a video game I'd be pissed.
It's interesting that they're only being used for area denial and not sniping, would have thought remote firing offers some comfort to snipers exposed to counter fire from mortars or artillery. Metal Storm is an off the shelf version of these types of tech.
Actual snipers are meant to press forward with light equipment and change their position when discoverd before greeted with artillery fire or so on.
While its not impractical to put a DMR(mostly a semi automatic precision rifle) on it, its simply more efficient to mount a fully automatic machine gun with belt fed mechanism that allows operator to fire more round without requires reloading.
The downside of this system is being stational, so heavier weapons are pair well with it.
Ukrainian ingenuity once again! Great ideal.
Now let’s see the accuracy
@valve where can i get the gun accessory
does it work against FAB 1000?
now put a camera and servos on it and let me run it with my tablet
History making full circle.
Did you know that Australian ANZAC’s did this in WW1 in the trenches of galipoli ? Not impressive today in the age of drones.
we're getting closer to automatic sentries, this is literally a manual sentry, Im sure they can mod it with motion sensors and whatever else a rust sentry uses lmao
A war made easy..
is a war made long
My kids and I are so totally going to use this idea to elevate our Nerf battles.
I was wondering why trench periscopes haven’t been seen yet?
Or just add modern scope with video out display fitted on wrist.
New design should be focus on balancing 😊
Working wonders against the fab1500.
Maybe not.
I seriously dont think these are employed that much at all - once your pos is discovered or you want to relocate fast this contraption would hinder this or its blown by a drone or return fire.
Absolutely genius.
Did I just hear the word "stalemate"?
Yep. Until either side is in general retreat and the line is no longer largely stable id say it's an adequate description. Thanks for watching.
@@TheArmourersBench Not sure what makes a general retreat general, but Ukraine is being subjected to aggressive attrition, inevitably resulting in territorial losses almost weekly - however small. But losses nonetheless. It defies belief to imagine that this is anything but a slow and grueling retreat.
I have always wondered why these aren't used more. Now I still don't know.
Short answer, they kinda suck. Same reason all the "round the corner" guns suck and why bullpups suck.
Long Answer: linkages, cables, pulleys and mirrors are the last thing you want between you and your rifle, especially the trigger group and the sights. The trigger your finger presses releases the hammer and fires the weapon. With a cable pulling the trigger, now you've got slack and more pick-up before the trigger breaks. It's the same reason bullpups have awful triggers, it's a linkage not the actual trigger. More steps=more problems.
Because nowadays the enemy's infantry is not the most important target and force, there are many means against which the periscope does not help, artillery, mortars, grenade launchers, drones and other aviation, armored vehicles.
Haven't they heard about cameras?
Now wireless camera's can be used
Точность? Не, не не слышал.
С тем же успехом можно поднять АК над головой и стрелять куда-то туда)
Wow a real Gamechanger 😂😂
The germans also did this but even improved they did it with mg42s and there systems looked very profesional and stable much better then these versions the machingun is very steady and the system also doesnt look that fragile of them there is many famous fotos with the germans on the eastern front using it on a bipod with a periscope above it and very sturdy..
I remember reading that Ukrainians used a remotely controlled machine gun in Avdiivka (on approach to Tsarska Okhota).
Remote control guns like the cut scenes from the movie Aliens. Those are probably more practical than the WWI designs.
You mean costlier and harder to produce
You're both right. While something automated would preform much better than this, it would be much more costly, harder to make and maintain, and it would take time to get it on the front lines.
Never went away with the german army. There's a periscope tripod for the MG3.
Did I see a Steam Deck there with that RWS?
You definitely did.
If it works - why don't use it? Knifes also works, and I heard about a bows and arrows for special forces.
the precursor to mech suits
How accurate are they?
if you shoot 1-2 bullets with few sec delays, then I think it can be 100% accurate until the vibrations loosen the screws or disassemble the whole thing. Anyway, it would be a great thing for suppressing fire, and especially during enemy assault when just 1 wrong move can kill you
Super accurate 😂
i beg to disagree
these things might of had their place on the frontline of previous wars but in todays day and age with drone warfare the last thing you wanna be doing is having 1 eye shut and the other stuck down a periscope
devices like this are the easiest way you can not pay attention to your surroundings
@@sadge0
War, war never changes
WWII: Drone Expansion DLC