Why do Russian Soldiers Use AK-12, but the Spetsnaz Hate It and Use AK-74
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- čas přidán 24. 03. 2024
- The AK-12 rifle was called the "fifth generation weapon", which would outperform the previous AK-74 by (!) two times and become the best in the world. But what do we see in practice? The Russian soldiers and Special Forces operators.. simply can't stand the new Kalashnikov rifle! What is the reason?
I don't understand the need for a "newer" rifle, when you can take a reliable existing rifle and modernize it with Zenit parts. Overall way cheaper
maybe to keep the state rifle production of the military-industrial complex alive or scale their production with some foresight
@@DakuHonoo yeah okay good points
corruption. Someone wanted a government contract.
It’s better on paper to create and produce a new rifle rather than continuously restore old rifles
@@pieterandjuanchronicles9849tell that to the Lee-enfield conversions 😂
Reminds me of the fact that When AK74 was adopted, Spetsnaz continued using AKMs for some time.
Well that was due to the ammo availability
for the case of AK-74. Spetsnaz, initially did not use AK-74 for 2 reasons:
1. The AK-74 at the start of its production did not have the sub-sonic ammunition needed by special forces to carry out their missions.
2. Because the Soviet enemy, namely the Mujaheeden, used AK-47/AKM, for special forces who would carry out missions behind enemy lines, it would be better to use AKM/AKMS which use the same magazine and ammunition as the enemy, so they can use enemy ammunition, if their initial ammunition supply runs out.
Only the AK-74 didn't have such dumb flaws
Couple reasons for that. One was so they can use the existing PBS-1 suppressor thst works well for 7.62 but not so well with 5.45. Second, Spetnaz operate covertly behind enemy lines with no guaranteed logisticsl backup for resupply. Meaning they have to scavenge the enemys weapons and ammo. The mujahadeen use 7.62 ammo for their AKMs. Spetznaz can simply pick them up from killed enemies.
it was bc the ak 74 didnt have a suppressor and akm did
To be such an unpopular weapon, it sure is a sexy thing.
No, no it's not.
@@mikeblair2594it is
The prototype version was more sexier
@@The_Courier1998 finally someone has common sense
@@The_Courier1998true
The burst mode was a ridiculous addition. I also never understood why the gas tube was permanently welded to the rifle. This is a nightmare for cleaning the rifle, especially if using corrosive ammunition.
AN-94 was better and had undergone full USSR testing, which used to be hardcore, unlike Russian. AN-94 was also ready to be produced. They added 2-burst to eliminate talk that AN-94 can do things AK-12 can’t. “See, we also have 2-burst! Your AN-94 ain’t shit”. And even if AK-12’s burst is crap, that’s how logic of Russian Corruption works.
@@CallOfCutie69 Honestly the an94 was just too expensive and complex for a general issue rifle.
@@matteusvirtanen392 and AK-12 is too unreliable for a general issue rifle, but here we are
@@CallOfCutie69 Both are correct. If I was in Russian procurement and politics weren't a thing I would have just adopted something akin to an ACR or an MCX but in 5.45. The AK isn't horrible as a platform but there are many ways to improve the design.
@@CallOfCutie69 As an infantry rifle? Fuck nah lmao. Grunts will always find a way to break things. I don't care if they made the AN-94 never need cleaning, never jam, and never need to be taken apart, grunts will still find a way to lose half those little parts. IMO spending the money just making better triggers and just firing semi auto is far easier. Especially when it ruins the entire easy to use safety
For instance, Finland just choose to modernize their old RK62 to RK62M. It was cheap and practical solution.
@BadBomb555 to start the Finns rear sight is soldier proof, rear flip. Two ranges and a third with the night sight. Not this adjustable ranges for meat that can neither read nor count. Every country tries to make their gear soldier proof, cause if it can be broken it will be broken through sheer stupidity. Unless you're the US Marines, its just what they do. Take a Russian conscript and expect him to know how or have the capacity to learn how to work an adjustable peep sight is just asking to much.
Thats a hell of a rifle. Not much to improve there.
Yeah but what about the child of an officer that was given a job! Won't you think of the useless zits of society you could be creating nothing jobs to waste money on?!
I remember examining an AK-12 at the "Army 2021" expo in Moscow a few month before the events in Ukraine unfolded. The instructor seemed to hate it; claimed the whole thing was wobbly (the stock and handguard especially) and that the picatinny mounts on the receiver cover were more of a gimmick as they weren't stable enough to reliably mount decent optics without having to readjust them after removing the cover to clean the weapon, for instance. The picatinny rails on the handguard were useless for mounting anything besides flashlights.
When the gun first came out, the military hated it and called it "an attempt to turn the good old Kalashnikov into an "M-series" (slang for Western assault rifles)". I think politics were largely to blame as the Izhmash plant (now the Kalashnikov concern) faced bankruptcy in the early 2010s, and the government basically kept them afloat until they got their business model in order by ordering batches of AK-12s.
To be fair though, most of the concerns voiced by soldiers were addressed in the AK-12 rifles that were produced after 2023, but I still think the MoD should go with another rifle in the future (ideally an AEK-971/Kord derivative, or the AKV-521 if they insist on sticking with the Kalashnikov pattern).
The ak 12 is not a failure, it is good for what it was designed for. It was designed to give the standard soldier an ability to mount attachments easily and cheaper, especially thermo or night sight and suppressors, ak 12 is much lighter and cheaper than ak km. Also ak 12 is still evolving and it is stupid not to agree that it is modernised and standardised old school ak and this is why it’s good. Speznaz usually prefer something more customisable, but they usually don’t use their weapon for a long period of time because old school ak in furniture are heavy, but usual grunt will gladly take ak12 and forget all of the f@ckery with attachments on old school aks. So this video is based on more of a video game logic and he does not know how and why certain weapon choices are made. For government ak 12 is a major win in terms of supplies of attachments needed, because everything is standardised and they do not need to ask the soldiers what mount they use, and grunts do not complain all good for them)
This is a real commentary
Ты правильно, брат 🤙🏼👌🏼🇷🇺✊🏼
Thank you, a breath of fresh air among these armchair experts
Nice to see someone with a common sense here.
Dont ask the MOD where AK12 disappeared after kyiv failure.
AK74M/AK200 just makes more sense overall.
But it can’t mount scopes or laser attachments like the AK-12
@@yarnickgoovaerts the AK200 is optics/accessory ready and covered with picatinny that actually holds zero. The AK74M may not have accessory mounts (with exception of dovetail optics mount) in factory configuration, but it can easily be outfitted with furniture that allows it.
@@johnthomson2377 I thought the AK-200 was just the export version of the AK-12
@@yarnickgoovaerts No. the AK200 is based on the AK74M rifle, and uses the same barrel, bolt carrier, trunnion and handguard retention system. The main difference is the hinged dust cover that holds zero and a slightly different folding stock latch.
@@yarnickgoovaerts replace with piccaninny rail for AKM would fix that
The current 3rd iteration of the AK-12 and AK-15 are pretty decent and most of the kinks have been ironed out and burst is gone from the fire control. The flimsy and shaky stock is gone and a solid folding stock with adjustable length of pull is fitted to 3rd generation rifles. Parts breakage and cracking is apparently fixed too. The major reason that special forces prefer to use the AK-74M and other 100 series rifles is that there is an abundance of after market parts for them. The AK-12 can also only use the suppressor that is designed for it as it fits on the muzzle break or the mount depending on which model. There are very few of them in circulation too. The 100 series rifles do not have this issue and there is a large choice of option to suppress them which is one of the main reasons they are preferred. The fixed gas tube is not really an issue as you can clean it fitted by opening the end of it. The handguard is still a small problem as it is not as solid as something like a Zenit Co B19 or B30 handguard but really it is only a small issue. It is fine for mounting a light or even a laser. You wont get the as solid zero hold on the laser but with most of the after market handguards you cant mount a GP-25 or GP-30
All new issued rifles have growing pains when they’re first introduced.
But this was is basically a pain, it supposed to be an improvement but they butchered it to the point the original is better
@@rocky-zx6kq No like he said it was true of everything from the first ak47 to the first AR15 they were literal dogshite when first issued.
The free floating barrel and optics readiness is all the AKM platform needed the selector can be easily changed out the only real problem I see with the design is that gas ring.
This, it was basically not optimized, its kinks will be fixed in time making a cheaper but modern ak variant able to fit stuff on, it was never meant to be a elite specialized rifle
@@magnem1043 the Ak-12 rifles manufactured after 2023 featured a number of improvements compared to the ones made before. Still far from ideal though
@@off6848The M16 wasn't even that bad. Bad ammunition and the troops thinking it didn't need to be cleaned where bigger problems than the rifle itself.
What russian specnaz are you specifically talking about? There are at least 6 different departments that have them and some of them have different branches of specnaz, with specific tasks. And the army also has its own branch of specnaz...
Mine doesn’t use AK at all. He uses AS VAL
Your comment about many of the AK12's "innovations" being based on video game logic is funny and accurate.
There's also a large historical precedent for it, particularly in American arms development. We've tested out crazy ideas like "what if every soldier carried a high-tech grenade launcher that was integrated into their rifle?" or "What if we increase hit probability by using burst-firing hypervelocity flechette rifles?", among many other ideas that were seen as stupid by anyone with actual combat experience.
I think it's rather likely that this sort of weird experimentation was a motivating factor for Project Abakan, and later Project Ratnik in the wake of the AN94's failure.
Yes, I didn't even have to think about it. I have been following the military sphere and civilian shooting fashion for quite a long time. I look at this quick-release AK-12 mount and realize that someone was literally saying "We saw American special forces quickly put suppressors on their rifles, let's do something like that" or "Oh, they have a Magpul! It's super cool, let's make the same stocks" ))
@@casperarmsEveryone is chasing modularity because its a force multiplier. Russia seems to have dropped the ball on field testing while the west spend loads of money on it. Magpul is popular because its good and even the no-nonsense SOF guys are using it. Yes, the west tests some weird stuff because if it works then it might be a major advantage. All rifles with a grenade launcher sounds awesome if feasible. But it wasn't feasible so the project was dropped. Flechette ammo? You mean potentially lighter ammo with similar or better ballistics than a regular bullet? Great! Except it didn't pan out.
Never trust the fudds who aren't willing to test and accept new technologies. They're the same fools that think the M14 is an actual good rifle and would have us re-adopt it as a standard rifle.
I heard western gun experts preaching these while calling AKs "inferior". I just never understood, why one has to adapt western standards that doesn't add functionality and doesn't fits towards the objective one is pursuing.
@@aniksamiurrahman6365 to some extent it's just pressure to "keep up". The AK74M is a reliable weapon that (as shown by its use by both sides in Ukraine) is perfectly viable in modern combat. But it's not the flashy new thing.
@@brainplay8060 There has to be a balance between crazy experimental innovation and a sense of realism. I mean come on, a laser targeted grenade launcher where each individual cartridge has a microchip in it? Ridiculous, and the XM25 grenade launcher derived from the project proves that the idea is infeasible even when scaled back. It's heavy, expensive, and unable to fire if the computer in the weapon itself or the ammunition malfunctions. In the meantime, the project cost millions that ultimately went nowhere (not to mention the XM8 that also got canned). No country has an infinite defense budget, not even the US.
great video man, i have a question about the bayonets so the AK-74M has a standard bayonet thread or mount like those in m16s and the ak-12s has a clip on bayonet mount? like those in british rifles?
I heard that the older vision of the AK-12 was a lot different, but the government kept removing features until it became a normal AK with rails. But if that's the case, why don't they take the Zenitco alpha rails? It's already there, and it is high quality.
The early Zlobin prototypes were actually closer to the AK74M than the current AK12, and I would argue that's why they were better. The primary changes were in handling, like placement of the charging handle and selector switch, and rails were integrated without completely changing the handguard/gas tube/dust cover mounting.
In other words, it didn't try "fixing" things that weren't broken to begin with, and focused on modernizing in ways that actually mattered.
As for why they didn't just use zenitco? It's kind of a band-aid solution. It's all milled aluminum, and adding that weight on top of a rifle that's already significantly heavier than an AR adds up to a lot. This isn't just for people flexing on guntube, this is for soldiers who need to be able to walk for miles without rest carrying a full combat load.
@@whitestarlinegoodnightalso costs
The left right Ak selector switch is really cool
very interesting. thank you for the vid
1:57 oh god no-one on the internet knows that ak 12 is evolving and 2 round burst is removed for almost 2 years
Dude, when I pick up a topic, I talk about it in full. I can't just pull out individual pieces that are known to a wide range of people, understand me
@@casperarms no hate
A lot of AK-12s in Ukraine still have the 2 round burst. Ideal and realistic are different
@@y0h0p38 i am not talking about ideal situation, this video just trashed ak 12 and i disagree
@@casperarmsBro if the information you present has been outdated for 2 YEARS IT IS NOT HATE. And it is publicly avalable.
And ta "talk in full" argument is like mentionaing reliability isshues of the M16A1 when talking about the M16A4
Yeah, I read a Russian soldier's opinion of the AK-12 on Telegram. He said his weapon of choice was a modernized AK-105 with zenitco handguard and red dot.
If we help them invade Ukraine do you think we would get cool AK’s with zenit furniture?
@@pissedpajamas5718 On COD you will.
@@pissedpajamas5718There's nothing left to invade.
Ah yes, The Activist. Where are you on other invasions across the globe before? No words? Hmm? A bot indeed @@pissedpajamas5718
@@Velikan5.45x39mm slava ukraini
Great insights.
there's so much features the ak 12 could've taken concept and design from already proven from working platform altho the reason to make more ak 12 and not modernize remaining ak 74 was due to both keeping the military industry alive and getting newer rifles they could've made it more well thought out. the dust cover could've been based on the krinkov ( even zenitco had a dust cover mount similar in concept) and the hand guard could've been torx screw mounted for extra stability, and the stock could've been any ar15 buffer tube stock that is common even in Russia.
If you see the word Special Forces in the title, it's safe to say that the video was made by amateurs. In the video they talk about military special forces, OMON, military swimmers, Alpha, special forces of the Airborne Forces, FSB, SOBR? They all use different equipment for different tasks and to generalise them is to sign one's own incompetence.
your video's are excellent. Very informative and your english is great.
He sounds like AI
wasnt it the same thing with the AKM and the AK74?
No, the reasons are different
He made a Video about it 3 months ago
@@casperarmsok
The main reason is that 5.45x39 for the AK-74 is a small round that relies on hitting super fast to penetrate armor/cause larger wounds inside the body from pressure/frag. Mainly it was Spetsnaz or whatever other SOF equivalent they put in Afghanistan who disliked the 74, as they couldn't get subsonic rounds to use with suppressors. Remember, a suppressor doesn't do much without a bullet that's subsonic. Another benefit was that they probably had situations where they couldn't resupply for a bit, so being able to use the same 7.62x39 that their enemy's used in AK-47s/Ms and SKSs was probably a lifesaver
AKM is flimsier than milled but is still grunt-proof, i am sure everyone was happy to drop a kilo off their shoulders.
AK-74 is better across the board but 5.45 subsonic flat out sucks and would suck even if the bullet was made out of DU.
AK-12 is just sheer corruption and incompetence, worse in every respect than an AKS-74N with 200$ worth of aftermarket parts. I am almost thankful MTK doesn't see this.
Another reason why AK74 or AKM is preferred because there are vast quantities of after market parts, some cheap, some premium but definitely better quality than the standard mil-spec.
SOF units typically can buy or use their own if required.
But AK12 is new and the barrel change means it is very difficult to get after market suppressors too.
Mikhail Kalashnikov is probably fuming rn looking at the ak 12
This is what zlobin's prototype was ditched for...
yeah, really sad reality for AK lover.
Just the prototype of Zlobin was really a well-developed model in many ways, and he impressed many. But when even the fans saw the model of the AK-12 version of Dolganov (as far as I understand, he is the lead designer of the AK-12 version after Zlobin), people were simply disappointed
@@casperarms Zlobin's project was shit, no matter how you look at it. Zlobin's team had shooting athletes who strongly influenced the development of weapons. Do I need to explain how sports weapons differ from military ones? AK zlobin did not pass the state tests, which is not surprising. Its cost was too high. The receiver cover was very difficult to manufacture and cost as a separate rifle.
@Yevgeny_N It wasn't shit, it was just expensive. These are different things, and this is a question for those who talked about "fifth-generation weapons that are 2 times more effective than the AK-74," but in the end they just released a crappy tuned AK-74
@@casperarms Zlobin's AK-12 was shit! I repeat once again, he did not pass the state tests. During the tests, his bolt carrier broke. The 2016 AK-12 was also crap. But the soldiers praise the AK-12 of 2020. The AK-12 2023 changes took into account the experience of the war in Ukraine.
most or all of these problems have been fixed with the most recent iteration of the AK12
I think that the '74 is a fine rifle as it is. The '12 modifications come off as an attempt to turn the Kalashnikov into an AR-15. I suspect this to be obnoxiously heavy.
The closest I will get to a '74 is my Arsenal clone (it is a re-manufactured Saiga). The mount on the side of the receiver for optics is very strong. I would not want a shorter barrel with 5.45x39. If I need the weapon to be shorter, I can fire it with the stock folded. The folding stock is short (a great size) and the mechanism to lock it open/closed is excellent.
The only thing that is I would change with mine is a tuned trigger. It's an easy drop in modification. A wish would be to replace the brake with a suppressor by direct mount to the existing threads. The optics can be solved with an EoTech+-magnifier using the aforementioned receiver mount or an aftermarket part.
I like AR-15 and AKs. They are both excellent weapons. You really must be familiar with both systems.
What about the AN 94 and the newer AEK 545? Also they are developing new 6mm cartridges
AN-94 is an engineering masterpiece and maintenance nightmare. The AEK counter-weight recoil system just can't be made to last and it does add weight. 6mm sounds perfect before you think about it as a FOURTH assault rifle cartridge in the system.
From a blank slate i'd probably nominate AM (that AR-18esque Dragunov's avtomat they dug out recently) in 6x41 and 9x39.
Is it as bad as the SA-80 early version?
How does it compare to the QBZ191 ??
IMHO, China actually have much better new Assault Rifle. because, you can see, the upgrade that QBZ191 bring, over it's predessor actually working, and feedback from the operator actually positive.
QBZ-191 did suffered some issues initially but so far it seems fine, also it's a new design and not QBZ-03 with changes rather than the AK-12 half-assed "new"
@@fedrickosamuelshidarta970 I agree. The QBZ191 is not innovative but just combines the best of all rifles into one package. Gun innovation has plateaued I think.
The idea of improving service rifles with a small third-party parts manufacturer with low supply capacity is only useful on a small scale of use, such as for special forces.
Rifles for conventional units are mass-produced and specifications must be standardized. Cost reduction is also required.
This is why I think the ak200 series was so much better. All of the positives without any of the negatives. Between the ak74m and the ak12
The AK12 has almost a west European or northern European rifle design.Having a front sight post like Finnish/Valmet RK62(or Israeli Galil)and rear peep sight towards the end of receiver cover.And also the side foldable stock has a western appearance.But also that new Chinese assault rifle,QBZ 191,has a US or western European appearance.
Can you do a comparison with the extinct VDV gear?
To be fair, a free floating handguard isn't inherently bad for military use. Many militaries have shown that if you do it right it's there's pretty much no point in not having it. The Block II, URGI, MCX family, 716i, the KS1, and modern 416's that use free floated rails just to name a few have been exceptional rifles. But like you said the flexing is an issue. Any laser mounted to that will have no hope of holding a zero.
I know. Better accuracy is inherently good. Kalashnikov concern was just stupid and thought that plastic was a good handguard material.
@@tylersmith3139 Exactly! I wonder what drove them to use plastic. Although it probably is the simple answer, money.
I mean military weapons can have a free floating barrel, but you can't do it cheap.
the muzzle device is non removable but is designed to be used with a fast detach supressor/flashhider wich is exactly what the special forces want ( Alfa arms muzzlebreaks plus fast detach supressors have been lob the standart recomendet muzzle device by the special operations trainingcenter RYC for example ). with the ton of tubning options now avaviable for the rifle , the possibilitys have already exceedet the traditional ak platform. more and more spec ops guys start to preffer the ak 12 and its specific advantages , most of wich interstingley dont get covered in the western world. most complains are towards the firdt version , tough even this version could be fixed by an experienced user with a few parts. as of rigght now there is not much speaking for the ak 12 quite the countuary special forces instructors really start to like the rifle. of course people like to use what they are used too , and this counts for all . for example people complain about the diopter sights and call them inferior towards traditional ak sights ( special forces and regulars ) something wich confuses most in the west. It has more to do with familiarity.
also calling the ak 12 a fail is defently incorect , the ak 12 had some intial issiues liek almost all new rifles when they are i!introduced including bouth the original ak and M16 rifles ( though they were much faster resolved then bouth of those ). The rifle is produced in imense quanititys , effectively reequiping the entire army at a fast pace ( more then half production volume of kalaschnikov concern is ak 12 ).
AK-74M is good, it works perfectly.
Old things are more reliable cause they stood the test of time.
No one should ever think that new stuff is always better.
From what I understand too the ak-12 is super hard to suppress and from what I know of Russian special forces is that they love suppressed rifle. To the point where they carried ak-ms into combat with a 74 just so they could have a suppressed rifle in Afghanistan.
on M1 they finally throw out that ridiculous 2 burst lmao
This feels like someone made it in mansion not in field.
Also wish for video about AEK-971 soon
Well. If they wanted to make a burst fire selector, they could've just brought back the AN-94 and handed it to the Spetsnaz, FSB and other specops
I thought that the author understood something, but it was a mistake
The first version of the AK-12 was terrible and no one hides it, but in the new version most of the errors have been corrected. It is a soldier's personal preference and matter of habit whether to use an AK-74 or an AK-12. There are many positive comments about the AK-12 and there are negative ones, but this does not mean that the AK-12 is a bad machine gun. A huge plus of the AK-12 is the built-in picatinny rails, thereby eliminating the need for various adapters. I am surprised that the author did not say that a diopter sight was installed in place of the open sight, because most people perceived the AK-12 negatively precisely because of the new sight.
The AK-12 is a general-arms assault rifle, that is, an assault rifle for all types of troops in the army. No one hides that the AK-74M is no longer suitable for the realities of the modern battlefield, and the AK-12 should correct this, and again no one hides that the AK-12 is an AK-74 in a new configuration
All those 'problems' are workable fixes, I don't see any show stoppers. Every new firearm is a work-in-process and will have 'bugs' they need to work out. The next version of the AK-12 will be better.
I mean, There's already an M (modernized) and an M-1 version, and he said they still have most of those problems. Although i don't think a non removable muzzle device would be a big problem for an avarage infantry grunt, and on the M-1 version they removed the two round burst that was causing problems. But when you compare to the fact that the first AK was immediately pretty much perfect, the AK-12 needing 2 modernizations in a single decade, or less, is pretty crazy. I blame capitalism. The original AK was designed by a working class soldier in the Soviet Union in a time when it was still a properly communist country, who was attempting to fix what he deemed a major problem in his country's military for the good of his brothers in arms in a country that was founded that way, while the AK-12 was designed by a for-profit corporation in a capitalist dictatorship
When you find out that the plastic handguard splits and the metal front sight breaks, you realize that this is not just a mistake. In a country where they learned how to make unkillable weapons half a century ago, such failures are something beyond the bounds
@@ghilliem.g.5824the very first production AKs weren't perfect, suffered from fragile receivers
@@casperarmssame as Sig Sauer and their new pistol came out for the US, so his point still stands. Doesnt matter if you are a reknown manufacturer, errors are bound to happen
@@AZNinsomnia02 What's wrong with the new Sig?
Maybe they should try doing a featureless stock for the ak12
AK-12 is just such a sexy gun :>... however i got myself an AKM
They should have done what the Soviets intended to do, plastic top cover and a rail over the top, that could've been done pinning the rail on the trunnions, other than that the Galil ACE reciprocating dust cover would be better than the old one too.
most army do that when a new rifle is distributed the special force reject it for years
funny thing is their many elite scouts still using this
I also hate this new "Diopter Sights", the old one where better to get a quick aim.....
The Ak-12 was more or less the cheaper options as zennit parts are more expensive and the Ak74 is pretty worn, with worn barrels, peened bolts and worn out springs being an issue to replacement. Mass producing a new rifle makes sense, it's just they went with the Ak-12 as it was a lot cheaper than trying to mass issue Aek-971's or AN-94's or the like. Even the Ak-100 series.
Despite all this i love the AK-12. I currently own one and its my most accurate AK. Still everything said in this video is true. Great video
How did they manage to fuck up the AK?
70s-80s: army uses new ak74 while spetsnaz uses akm
2020s: army uses new ak12 while spetsnaz uses ak74
I think it’s just the fact that the older models already have a lot of parts kits to iron out and customize the weapon exactly to how the operator wants it. While the new guns are meant for the grunts with basic upgrades over the older standard issue rifle. The upgrade from akm to ak74 meant a lot less recoil for grunts due to the 5.45. While the upgrade from ak-74 to ak-12 meant grunts can now more easily add attachments/scopes to their rifles without having to go through the whole parts kits process. In due time the ak-12 will be completely ironed out and this early period will be regarded as the same as the problems the early ar-15 pattern of rifles had.
*Back then*
Soviet Army Soldier: Wow, we got those brand new AK-74’s I really love them!
Soviet Spetsnaz Soldier: I hate it, prefer old AKM’s or AKMS’.
*Now*
Russian Army Soldier: Wow, we got those brand new AK-12’s I really love them!
Russian Spetsnaz Operator: I hate it, prefer old AK-74M’s.
In the 2000's when the US Army wanted a more 'modern' rifle, we explored new guns entirely and the closest to adoption, the XM8, was deemed not worth it...but then we just got SOPMOD Block upgrades (block 1, block 2, etc...) that were basically just furniture/rail upgrades and completely succeeded in modernization. They were first used by spec ops, proven to be grunt proof, and then applied to standard rifles.
Russia already got EXACTLY the same option, up to the point of years of proven use by spec ops with Zenitco's kits, and they are clearly superior to the AK12 (just like an M4 SOPMOD was superior to an XM8 for example).
Should have just got Zenitco kits for everyone, no need for decades of separate R n D
Off topic: i can imagine that if AN-94 had somewhat simpler constructuon even with hyperburst, it would be the best rifle on the battlefield and russians would be using it from day it was released.
hi i used an ak 12 and i disagree with the statement of dew to the fire selector going to far you are weaponless, that's not true it still fires fine but i must say even when it isn't malfunctioning it feels weird.
To those who want the quicker answer, AK-12 has bad quality, but it is standard issue so the army is forced into using it, AK-74 is good quality, but isn't standard issue, so only special forces such as Spetsnaz can get their hands on it
I believe that the main reason for hatered is that ak12 is simply heavier, this is some really big disatvantage for spetsnaz.
Short answer: because the army gets what’s new and the grunts tested out in the fields. Special forces already know how the older models work and they don’t want to be bothered with the guess work of a new model. Same happened with the AK74 , special forces hated it and kept using AKMs while the Soviet army and the paratroopers were all given AK74s in Afghanistan
Maybe they hate it because the 12 looks like a western gun lol and the AK74 is the stronk motherland symbol
You can't imagine how much they love Western modernization. Especially in the special forces. They never talk about it directly, but they are very jealous of the West and the technologies that the West has. Fans of the old AK without tuning are looked at as ancient people. They usually promote the theme that "we don't need anything modern, because our fathers and grandfathers fought without it". Most thinking people have nothing but laughter and a desire to get away from these crazy people
@@casperarms Hows that Ukraine conflict going nafo bot?
@@off6848easy boris
Drink some vodka
@@casperarms technologies lol they are using robots on the frontline... czcams.com/video/jsNIwPoMdXg/video.html
What happened to "Nyet,rifle is fine"?
what can I say really. People who recently joined the army calmly fight with the AK12, and those who served for several years with the AK74 prefer it. A year ago, I, together with a friend who is 4 years younger than me, met the AK12, I didn’t like it much, but on the contrary, he liked the AK12 more than the AK74 and M4.
You didnt eave mention the dumb short handguard, some people like to hold rifles near the end of the barrel witch is more accurate. The gun would be pretty good looking if it had a normal hand guard.
Unpopular opinion but I think the outdated AKs like the AK47s or AKM are the best because they’re more powerful and durable, other than the 74s and AK 100 variants.
they changed to 5.45 for a reason
Objectively false. AK47 had terrible trigger reliability isshues and it was expensive to produce.
The AKM solved thoes problems but it still used an unnecesarely powerfull bullet and had excessive recoil
@@LovelyHavocFor the same reasons the US switched to 556
-The same amount of ammo takes less space is lighter and cheaper to make.
-The bullet is faster so AP variants penetrate more easily armor and they are more accurate
-The bullet has a smaller chance to kill so by shooting 1 soldier you take out of the fight 2 ore more because he will need medical attention or med evac. Wich leads me to my 4th point
-Less shot soldiers will die so after the war economies will be less affected by the sharp drop in the workforce
@@StevieTheBush man, i was replying to the OP, i know why they switched 😂
Its not more powerful though the 7.62 was similar ballistics to .300bo a dogshite cartridge. 5.45 is a laser under 200 yards and tumbles better than 5.56 go look at any gel wound channel demonstrations
Their Zlobin protoype was by far a better upgrade than their curremt AK-12
He really said free floating handguards are not for the military
In which countries do the military use a free floating handguard?
@@casperarmsmost of the ar15 variants have floating hand guard, and in ak12 actually its touching the barrel so its not clearly "floating"
@@casperarmsAlmost very AR15 variant since the M16A4 in US service has had a free floating handguard
M16A4
M4 blk 2 and 3
Every single modern AR15 in service with any country has a free floating handguard
name of the song at end of the video?
scropA
In scifi elite troops gets newest tech. In reality they keep older weapons :D
The AK-200 would have been the ideal AK-12 and retain more commonality with the AK-74M (which is really the surrogate AK-100). The 2-shot burst is useless, and the only real change that the AK-200M (yes, they could do more) is improve the fire selector, and perhaps put the charging handle on the left side (a la AKV-521) to ensure extra protection, but beyond that, and perhaps the foregrip there is no real need to innovate the AK-200-design since it already has the right rails.
Do you address the 2023 revised version of this? It which all seems to be fixed.
Many modernisations of rifles are painful. The modenisation of the AK5 to the AK5C didn't go over impressively well either.
Also the Russians are slowly transitioning to the AK22 now. The AK12 is just a stepping stone in this.
Kinda like spetnaz units in the afghan war. They didnt like the 74, and prefered AKMs, most likely due to blending in , but probably what theyve trained and familiarized with
I wonder if the new AK-22 is an AK-12M1 with 6.02x41
yeah that new 6mm is supposed to be a beast similar ballistics as 6mm arc
doesnt the AK-12M1 remove the 2 round burst?
They did
yep
When talking about the 2nd round burst of this part, I was referring to the AK-12 version of 2016
@@casperarms Then make a video about the hystory of the ak12 not the current ak12
Said it before, but the AK74M could have been modernized through a upgrade package. Like something like the Polish Beryl rifle.
Most of the "improvements" on the AK12 were Good Idea Fairy things that were poorly executed.
For example, free floaring handguards with mount options (Picatinny rail, MLok, etc.) are excellent for mounting accessories, especially ones youbwant to retain zero (like, say, IR frequency laser modules for use with night vision goggles), but only if they are *rigid* . If you can't get them rigid, you might as well have retained the older system with them mounted to the barrel group - your zero shift will still be about the same, but at least rhey wont break.
The 2 round burst *sounds* like a good idea, but rhe reason they work for the AN94 and the HK G11 was those rifles fire the burst rate at an insanely high cyclic rate with an action that reciprocstes within a chassis, so both rounds exit before the recoil from the first shot is transmitted to the soldier. Even then, the value of "hyperfire" is debateable. With the AK12's rate of fire, it's not debateable - it's just a stupid idea to add a burst mechanism, that complicates rhe mechansim withiutnoffering any advantage. And in the case of the AK12, as you point out, the additional swing of the selector lever required to get to semiautomatic is bad.
The non-removeable gas tube with the gap you cannot get into to clean is absolutely unacceptable in a combat rifle, *particularly* one where most of rhe ammunition stocks for the military is still corrosive primed - that's a failure point that will deadline rifles very quickly, and likelt cause the entire rifle to have to be replaced when corrosion gets unsafe.
I understand why they wanted a QD muzzle device - to enable easy transition to suppressors and such, in keeping with the idea that they will become more commonly used in the near term. However, wither do it well (as other designers, including on the AN94, have done, as well as various Western suppressor companies) or just stick with the proven AK74 muzzle mount system - it's slower than a good bayonet mount, sure, bht its also way better overall than a poor bayonet mount system.
All in all, id have to say rhe AK12 was (as we say in American baseball) "a swing and a miss", much like the US M14, rhe initial batches of US M16s in Vietnam, the UK L85, or the first generation AK rifles (the original stamped ones before the milled receivers or stamped AKM). (Not anywhere near as bad as the Indian INSAS rifle, but that is faint praise indeed. 😂 )
Now, not everything is horrible about rhe AK12. Provided it holds zero (especially after repeated disassembly of the dust cover for cleaning), the rear sight looks like a definate improvement. From what I understand, the new muzzle device is better than the AK74 muzzle device. But other than that, the AK74M is superior.
[Edit to add - using the collapseable "M4 style" stock ia an improvement, too. But that is probably the *easiest* AK12 upgrade to backfit to existing AK74 rifles.]
Free-floated handguards in general are overrated for general-issue military rifles. Most soldiers even in well-trained infantry units (think US Marine marksmanship standards) don't shoot with enough accuracy to justify the small gains from free-floating and it makes the BUIS less accurate on some rifles (fortunately not for Kalashnikovs, but that's kind of irrelevant considering the disadvantages).
The Russians had it right the first time! They must not be familiar with that old saying, if it ain't broke,don't fix it! Some people can't resist trying to reinvent the wheel!
Thats just the times we life in overengeneer stuff that works until it deosnt look at cars all the electrik stuff everything
As a tarkov guy i can agree with spetsnaz. Ak 12 is trash, espessially that dioptr sight which is useless when you shooting at moving targets. Dioptr is good for long ranges, but for long ranges you need a scope and not this shit. Standart ак 74 ironsights are perfect for close combat.
Don't the spetznaz use AN-94 or AEK-971? Are you sure they are issued AK-12?
All they needed to do was to add picatinny rail to the AK 74 so it could fit mordern optics the didn't need to create a whole new rifle
The AK12 is meant to be cheap. Less than $200 last I heard a year ago.
Its same situation all over again when Russia adopted the AK-74.
The Spetsnaz in Afghanistan traded their guns with their Colleges from the Army for a AKM
This is true, but the reasons in both cases are completely different
Old Maker (MK) is gone, and that affects testing and refinement.
The ak12 looks good on paper to keep up with the modularity of the ar platform but in doing so the ak loses what makes it great, its simplicity and easy maintenance, how ever after market zentico parts have been used for years by russuan special forces and perhaps some of those parts should be prioritized especially for optics mounting weapon lights, lazers, ect.
I Used the the ak12 in its modern configuration and its not so bad as it stated.
Were you in combat? I doubt it.
Ak12 shouldn't exist, their is already better option than it i.e. modernized AK74M and the whole family Ak10x the final and one of the greatest homologation of AK, created by Mikhail Kalashnikov. The whole AK10x is eventually modernized like AK74M and is offered as AK20x. If they wanted to go for a new design they could have gone for AEK family, MA dragnov derivative or limited service A-91/ADS system. All three of them bring something new to the table. Even their own civilian offering AKV521 is much better.
Good topic, you don't hear much about the AK12, and the first version has been ready since 2011
The movement of the fire selector can be a serious problem
I still see the magazine insertion as a serious problem, it's a typical Kalashnikov difficulty to insert the magazine into the weapon compared to any western weapon
If the muzzle break is not removable, how do you put a silencer on the gun?
I'm watching videos from the Ukrainian front, I haven't seen AK12s on many soldiers, the Russian army is still using the AK74, the Ukrainians are also using the AK74 and all kinds of western weapons that they got either from the USA or the EU
Old is gold
The bayonet barrel mount reminds me of nerf guns😂
I don't get why the handguard is being made such a big deal out of. It is probably the easiest part on an AK to replace besides the magazine and top cover. Rifle furniture in general are parts that are highly subjective and a matter of taste and personal ergonomics. If russian arms procurement or command, whoever is in charge of equipment over there, felt the need to, they could change all the handguards in maybe a week.
What is the opinion of the Russian soldiers about the last version?
Even a Ukrainian some what praise it and hope that KC fixed the hand guard lol
i dont thimk that sgould be fixes, i think that is for esier manufacture and massproduction.
Simple answer, Kalashinkov didnt listen to the feed back Alpha group have given, and theu felt like there was no point in switching it since their Ak74s are kitted out with zentico accessories. Thats the reason. If kalahinkov did listen to Alpha group feedback then theyll be fine using ut however theres no point to them an Ak that still takes and uses the 5.45x45 and alpha grpup has zenitco rails and adjustable stocks on their 74 its pohtless to go or downgrade in a sense to the Ak12.
For those who dont know what alpha group is, Alpha group is the Russian tier 1 special operarions unit on par with Delta. And Spetsnaz is an umbrella term for their special operarions unit. If yoy are Spetsnaz yoy are most likely part of a counter terrorism unit, if yoy are Spetsnaz but with Alpha group yoy are a special opersrions unit in the Russian military.
Also about the stuff going on un Ukraine and those faliure missions that wasnt Spetsnaz that was a Paramilitary that has the same training and such as Spetsnaz but they have known to have multiple mission faliures never had a good track record histort wise.
All in all, reason as to why Alpha group doesnt use the Ak12 is because its a downgrade and pointless
Because the ak-12 actually suck in comparison to the older counterparts. Conscripts usually get the microscopical end of the stick in russia
Since the 7.62x39 is outdated is like saying 300 blackouts outdated. Yeah when they both have pretty much the same ballistic patterns and the main purpose of them both on the modern combat field is suppression and brushed deflection. As the 545 and 556 can not do well with.
He really said 7.62x39 is for suppresion
300blk is not for war. it is for covert ops , spec ops and police usage
@@StevieTheBush That is why they still use the 7.62x39 for SSO work instead of 545 look it up. Being bias is not being smart.
Not trying to be rude. But the 300 black is very close in drop speed and is better for suppressor work then 556. Same with 7.62x39 and the 545, plus the 30 cal hit harder in cqb range and goes through cover better.
@@KO3A69Nor really.
A 16" 556 is objectively better in every way (besides supression but that is less relevant than the round performance
@@KO3A69You are biased. Look up performance charts