Ukraine: RPG Warheads with Fragmentation Sleeves
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- čas přidán 4. 11. 2023
- Warheads fired from RPG-7s predominantly have a limited anti-personnel effect due to the minimal fragmentation needed for their normal anti-armour role. Since the spring of 2023 a number of Ukrainian units have been sighted using PG-7 warheads augmented with fragmentation sleeves which are intended to improve their effectiveness as anti-personnel munitions.
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Never see any 16, 17 or 18 year olds on the front lines .All the guys are in their 30's, 40's and 50's or older. Both Russia and Ukraine are dying races and the war is just killing them off at a faster rate.
It looks like sections on pipe that have been scored with an angle grinder. Especially if the pipe was cast iron which is fairly brittle it ought to make a good fragmentation sleeve and would be a low tech way of achieving that.
The sleeve is clever. RPG rounds self detonate after so many seconds. If you add weight and fire at a higher angle you reduce the velocity, the round spends more time in the air trying to climb while covering less distance in a straight line. Meaning you can bring it down like a mortar and air burst it at shorter ranges - edit - its worth noting that the Brits and Canadians used the PIAT in this manner during the long march to Berlin. 0:10 1:09
PIATs/Mortars need a heavy barrel and ground plate, so RPG/recoilles riffles are way lighter.
The indirect airburst option was always the high art of RPG shooting, but there were never really warheads designed for it. There are some dual purpose or anti bunker warheads for many RPGs etc. but a variable timed fused warhead wouldnt be so expensive to develope, especially with laser range finders this stuff is a low cost solutions for many situations.
@@westphalianstallion4293It would be very expensive to develop.
@@zoiders Why? Timed fuses are pretty easy, they are low velocity so components dont have to be ultra robust.
And if you know the relativ distance you time your rpg and its not rocket science.
The OG-7 grenade is the anti-personnel fragmentation grenade that is smaller/cheaper/more accurate than the RPG-7P/V
It's not well known by the general public because it doesn't protrude from the end of the launcher so it looks like an empty launcher rather than the mandatory cone shaped accessory for every middle eastern guy with a pair of sandals and a towel on his head.
Improvised weapons like this lend weight to the claim that Ukraine is running out of weapons.
Using the RPG-7 in this manner is very wasteful. It was never intended to serve as some sort of indirect fire weapon. Relying on the self-destruct feature for an airburst effect from desperation doesn't mean it is effective. The SD fuze isn't something like the ones found in purpose built modern airburst/programable munitions, it is just a simple pyrothecnic delay. Each round literally will have its own burst distance from all sorts of variables, from manufacturing quality, age, moisture within the warhead, or just wind strenght and direction...
Mostly good for morale and in lucky instances for area suppression. Most trenches and fortified positions are in windbreakers, in those cases they might as well try to hit whatever foliage remains, the piezo fuze is sensitive enought to trigger on thin twigs and branches, giving you the same airburst effect, with added fragmentation from the trees.
Allied supporters should send more Carl Gustav launcher with D441 HE-FRAG round, as those can be set to airburst while still having the impact fuze active. 600 steel bearing plus shell fragments every burst, a good 20 meter kill zone.
That is neat they take advantage of the self destruct feature at… 900 yards?
In Afghan Thalibans did same against helicopter
@@mickeygmx3114And convoys.
Cheap way to have an airburst munition.
Exactly. If you add weight with the sleeve and aim upwards you can reduce the velocity and use it at a shorter range. 900 is an awfully long way for a company sized attack.
@@mickeygmx3114Not really no. They swarmed them with multiple RPGs. Here they are adding weight to reduce velocity, firing at an angle to increase the time spent in the air and bring the round down over the enemy position in an air burst.
@@zoiders I guess they did it without extra weight and then rocket could reach approximately 1700m before self-destruction activated
These RPG-7 fragmentation sleeves are quite reminiscent of the _Splitterring_ fragmentation sleeves used on WWII German stick grenades. A similar _Splitterring_ fragmentation sleeve was also developed for the prototype _Panzerfaust_ 150 which was ironically one of the inspirations for the RPG-7.
True ha ha 😅 the history repeats
I'm pretty sure UA is well versed with German WW2 equipment, must have been a source of inspiration
@@hamilcar358 this
@@hamilcar358 True
Even back in 2018 there was complaints about lack of the HE warheads for the RPG, the innovation to make up for this lack has been impressive, from frag sleeves to the fire extinguishers packed with explosives.
the fire extinguishers thing is a panic solution, you eff up range and likelihood of a hit
Ive even seen 3d printed IED's with magnets, thread taps and ball bearings glued to the outside attached to drones. Lots of innovations being made.
the RPG-7 already has a frag ammunition named OG-7 (and its variants)
the problem is probably its low number,
as the RPG is probably mostly intended for anti-tank fire so most ammo made for the rocket launcher has been the anti-tank PG-7 family
@@quoccuongtran724 Maybe it did not come through, but it was a shortage of the HE variant of rockets my initial comment was about.
@@Br1cht- Once the fire extinguishers run out, they'll be using bows and arrows, then sticks and stones. lol
3:09 - This example looks like it has been deliberately badly "cut" on a fiber laser cutting machine in order to keep the squares together, but still have them separate at the joints under the force of the explosion. It's a quicker way to produce the sleeve than to have it CNC milled.
Source: I'm a fiber laser operator.
Have you seen how they been doing things? Cprobably a lathe and an angle grinder
Well thanks for sharing. I never heard of that before. I looked it up & am now better for it. Thanks.
What CNC?! 😁No need for precision here! Radial grooves, cut on a lathe, in the manufacture of a fragmentation jacket. Longitudinal grooves using a conventional angle grinder. It's cheap and doesn't require complicated equipment
Looks like a piece of 4 inch steel pipe scored with an angle grinder. With the exception of the base ring, it's probably easily made in the field by any of their soldiers.
I appreciate the neutral way you present information. You cover the subject material in exquisite detail, and in a way that later info can be readily built upon it. Tahnk you for all your hard work.
Thank you, that's exactly my aim with this series of videos. Appreciate the comment.
German Potato Mashers were blast grenades with minimal frags. The Germans did have a frag sleeve they would be able to slide over the warhead but they were rare as hen's teeth at the front lines
it's becouse it would turn an offensive grenade into a defensive one. meaning you wouldn't be able to throw it far enough not to get peppered by its shrapnel's.
During the two world wars fragmentation grenades had serrations on the outside of the fragmentation sleeve, probably to facilitate manufacture.
After the second world war, studies found that the external serrations had little or no effect on the fragmentation pattern of the selves.
It was also found that serrations on the inside of the selves did effect the fragmentation pattern. The serrations needed to be cut so as to present an opening into the inner sleeve surface. Presumably, these open groves focused the force of the explosion to produce the desired fragmentation pattern.
The infamous pineapple, mills bombs and Russian grenades with exterior grooves may have been made to try to I fluency fragmentation, but also nonslip surface for throwing
To add to this, this is the reason why the F1 has such random lethality in combat footage. Some people get hit with 5 grain dust particles and survive, while other people catch a finger lenght strip of cast metal.
Mills bombs were crenelated for grip. Not for fragmentation.
I have read that as well. It's interesting what they learned after World War 2.
The grooves on the outside weren't for fragmentation to start with it was for better grip in wet and muddy conditions
Thank you for your excellent mini-doc and commentary on this workshop innovation.
Thank you! Thanks for watching
You would think gluing BB's to the RPG warhead, so the entire surface is covered, would be much more effective and cheaper. More time consuming in that someone has to individually glue each BB to it, but it would cost less in terms of material and machine work, and produce more uniform, consistent fragmentation. Similar to the difference between the Mk2 and M67 frag grenades.
Ball bearings cost far more to make than a piece of stamped steel sheet.
@@zoiders Guess what's available in basically every hardware store, sporting goods store, etc? YOu buy a jar of BB's and some glue, then go to work. Less involved than taking sheet metal, cutting it to the right dimensions, scoring it evenly and at a depth so it fragments reliably but doesn't get cut through, then bending it around a mandrel so it fits the right size and shape and fabricating a locking piece to attach it with. And then it produces less consistent, reliable fragmentation than the BB's.
apply adhesive to the warhead and then roll it on a surface covered in BBs or shot, sort of akin to what they do when blowing glass to apply color
Logic would dictate that it was considered at some point and they went with the option that best fit with they resources and limitations, no?
@@zoiders Inferior BBs, i.e. not to any specified roundness, are super cheap. You can even improvise their production by "blowing bubbles" in an oil bath: Push liquid metal through a small pipe that ends in the bottom of said bath. Drops will form.
This is especially useful against infantry riding on top of IFVs and APCs. Chechens used to tape several thick gauge wires to PG-7V (anti-tank variant) grenades to make them more effective against infantry during Chechen Wars.
Assuming the enemy trenches are along the opposite tree line,this guy's indirect fire is pretty accurate the splash can be seen land just in front of the trees or among it,one skilled grenadier
From what I've heard the idea that scored medal surfaces develop fragmentation and shrapnel is largely a myth that originates with the pinapple grenade. In practice the explosion is so fast that once one area of the sleeve is torn the rest of the sleeve just flies away in more or less a single piece.
I'm no expert, nor do I have access to acutal RPGs. However, I have noticed that fragmentation is much more consistant the faster the explosion is. Stuff like black powder causes pretty much the frag to break into two, but higher explosives like ETN cause much mre consistant frag, where a standard pipe would easily break into 10-20 pieces. I have not experiemented with scoring though
If I remember correctly, OG-7v rounds use either A-IX-1 or A-IX-2, which is like 90+% RDX mixed with Wax as a stabilizer (and Aluminum powder for A-IX-2). I have no clue what the exact detonation velocity of either is, but RDX detonates at like 9k m/s, and iirc ETN is like 8k m/s, so I would assume RPGs could cause some nice shrapnel. Once again, I've sadly never touched a RPG, and I'm not gonna look up schematics jusr for this, so I don't know what the casing to explosive ratio or whatever, but I found that detonation velocity was much more important than the amount of explosive in creating consistant shrapnel
Scoring does work to enhance fragmentation. The HIMARS Unitary warhead also features such scoring. The key difference is that the scoring is on the interior. It must be inside for it to have an effect.
@@y0h0p38 You are indeed on to something. The term for the metric which produces this kind of effect is brisance. Explosives with higher brisance produce more of a shattering effect. The underlying mechanism is actually to do with detonation pressure, not velocity, although detonation pressure and velocity are correlated.
Single piece of shrapnel is largely what happens when there's not enough boom to completely overcome the strength of the material, e.g. when someone shoots a pressurized canister and it's only the compressed gas expanding. HE is a far more energetic beast; more boom => more pieces of smaller shrapnel.
Whenever I see a video of the cameraman being handed a rocket, I remember that one dude asking for ammo, and they kept handing him rockets.
Oh yeah, Yuri :)
link?
Just search nucking_futs_yuri
@@TheArmourersBench I NEED AMMO! NO MORE ROCKETS! (feeds another AT4 through the hatch)
@@AZREDFERNAH YES I REMEMBER! "rocket? :D" - "no, ammo!"
Can note, most stockpiles of rpg7 ammo are shaped charged anti tank rounds and not the anti personnel variant. The anti personnel type was developed later as a secondary use for the launchers, and I Believe still had to hit a solid surface to detonate. There was no air burst ever developed, so utilizing the timer on AT ammo is pretty ingenious, since there should be loads of this from Soviet stockpiles. Soviet doctrine saw knocking out our tanks as extremely valuable targets. Our tanks are so expensive and made in smaller numbers since they'd have to be transported across the globe, so their destruction value was much higher than Soviet ones.
True. Luckily our way of life turned out to be too efficient and economically successful, compared to the Soviet way.
We just out earned them, and if the time had come the fight started . . .
Well, it is worth noting that in 1940, in the entire world, there were 14 ACTUAL Aircraft carriers that carried more than a dozen front line capable fighters.
In 1946, there were 114. All with far more capability, armament, all had been fueled and armed and crewed, and not one of them was built by russians or chinese. Made in America, I believe?.
If the russians HAD relied on their "You tanks are too expensive" mode, America would have laughed, made more and more and more and said "We can keep this up forever, and guess what, Ivan.
We are MAKING MONEY doing it, and when we have won . . . and we WILL win . . . we will MAKE MONEY selling you the stuff you need to repair your shattered lives".
@@uncletiggermclaren7592 isn't your last line what we're doing with Ukraine? I believe we should support them to some degree, but there seems to be no future for them where we don't own them instead of Russia.
Yes, but they didn't have much choice, once they decided not to be sacrificed to putin's ego and lies. And I don't know about YOUR country, but the 280 million dollars in humanitarian aid that New Zealand sent in the last two years, isn't a loan, it has been a gift. The money that we sent in 2015 was a gift, the money we sent in 2016 was a gift . . . etc etc.
Did you mean "own" like MORALLY own them or something, some sort of power of condescension?. If that is the slant of your remark, it is a debt soon and "cheaply" paid in full.
The future is going to contain other conflicts of the Civilised World against the scum that wants to be allowed to rape and steal. THEN, when Ukraine steps up and says "We are still poor, but THIS we can give, and these Officers we can send and they have very valuable advice. And As We had Men from our Neighbours (and even far New Zealand) come and die in our defense, Ukraine will put no restriction on those of our people who want to go and lend their strength" and at one stroke they will have paid every OUNCE of any "Debt", will have Strengthened Civilisation, and THAT they have already done by their determination to join it.
Regardless of russian claims ( and their slaves like India ) Ukraine has not been committing murder, but Warfare by the rules. @@danielescobar7618
Only it doesn't explode like the HE variation, it still only fires out a jet forwards when it self detonate so the sleeve is utterly useless.
Hahahahaha.
No. The JET is the _result_ of a shaped explosion of Brobdingnagian pressure.
Why shaped explosions work, is for a tiny fraction of a second, the combined vectors of the pressure waves are SHAPED to increase the blast in one direction. But that is all over in a fraction of an instant, just longer than a normal explosion.
To DO that, there has to BE explosive force in all of the normal directions too.
Google "Fireant EFP weapon" and watch what happens to a bathtub sized robot when the shaped charge it holds a foot above its body goes off.@@SilvaDreams
Now all they need is a guidance kit and they become an anti-personnel "Javelin". Actually, maybe not even a guidance kit, just an aid that uses a rangefinder to measure distance to target and compute the exact angle of launch or set the timing of the fuse based on the current angle.
They could put laser seekers in the fins like the 70mm hydra rocket
Very interesting, thanks for sharing
Excellent upgrade of the RPG-7. And believe I saw this fragmentation sleeve back in Soviet times. Is there also an RPG-7 anti-personnel warhead manufactured by the North Koreans?
The OG 7 is an HE/Frag munition designed for the RPG7 launcher. However unlike the PG 7 it doesn’t have a sustain motor so has a shorter range.
There never seems to be many OG 7 around.
I think the WW II Panzerfaust had them to.
@@comentedonakeyboardNo.
@@bob_the_bomb4508 Thank you. My work requires I know of other-than-US munitions. Also, a detail. Think of this, in the video, a 'mosaic' fragmentation sleeve appears. Would not steel sleeve often burst in large fragments, whereas a plastic matrix would shatter like tempered glass? What a nightmare for survivors and surgeons. Perhaps my compassion for Russian wounded errs.
@@ghfrostwriter frag sleeves often split into large, inefficient pieces, so many modern weapons (think M18 Claymore here) instead have a matrix of small pellets embedded in a sleeve or slab of plastic or similar material.
The issue with non metallic fragments is that it contravenes the limitations of the Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons which forbids fragments that can’t be picked up by x-ray. They would probably also be held to contravene the Geneva Conventions as they would be probably considered as ‘excessively injurious’.
Good vid, thanks for putting this together!
Fascinating! Thanks for enlightening us about this very interesting modification.
Glad you enjoyed it!
They likely have a wrap of semtex or c4 under the sleeve to make the blast more powerful.
Yeah I would guess they might, but no way of confirming it from the available photos.
i heard that you cant really detonate c4 without an electric detonator
Excellent clip, great delivery. Many thanks !
Glad you enjoyed it
Im surprised adding that sort of weight didn't significantly affect the range and or stability.
Probably did. The RPG-7 has quite a few rockets, all different weights and drag. It's no stranger to inaccuracy.
Do more of this kind of thing?!!!! Nice work
Never seen these, thanks for this video.
Thanks for watching!
I expect the range scale on the sights will be way off with the weight difference. Won't go as far or as fast
Being a sleave with a base ring for retention, it won't be that heavy. The sights will be off, but would be very easily compensated for, and figured out. It's not like the rocket motor was designed to just barely be capable of powering the warhead. Such a design that is barely capable of moving the warhead would be extremely unreliable.
The sleeve does not compromise the rocket's anti-tank function either. So if a tank pops up, you can still use it like a normal anti-tank rocket. It does probably impact the rocket's performance, and increase the safe-use distance though. The RPG-7s lifespan has illustrated how the infantry appreciate having such a small but powerful weapon at their disposal. You essentially give every infantry squad a mini tank cannon when you equip them with the RPG, one that's a bit more demanding than an MGL but also much more powerful.
Great content man. Keep it up
Thank you, appreciate it!
Just want to point out that the self destruct fuse can be removed with nothing more than a vice, monkey wrench, and flat head screw driver. There is a video of this being done on CZcams.
It is interesting the stuff I have seen them launch from the RPG. Seems they have all the rocket boosters they will ever need and just need something to launch it with, ha. Their improvised munitions have a surpizing amount of polish to them. Even those mortar sleaves to shot sub-caliber munitions seems to be well made.
I wonder if this has enough weight to change the max range. if so, perhaps you could add onto it, thereby shortening its range.
American smooth fragmentation grenades used a scored wire coil inside the casing because it was more effective. It would be also much easier to fit to the rpg rounds, you just have to coil it.
You can wrap a pipe in steel wire, then glue it on with a thick layer of epoxy, the. Cut into it down to the pipe to make little frag checkers, they stay on there because of the epoxy resin which can be reinforced with glass powder. The same idea can be applied to a rocket.
A primitive light tripod device to lock in elevation and distance might be useful if you could standardize these fragmentation sleeves.
It looks to me like that one sleeve was mounted upside down with the scores against the warhead.
Would you know if any forces are fielding a mortar or artillery canister munition, similar in effect to what that became coming ashore after the age of sail? (Claymore) I'd think having an altitude select-able pattern density would be useful for ground-pounder and LAV suppression in the field. I wonder why not if so? I'm very impressed by the quick innovating on that sleeve design, that's cool.
I know that there's a anti-personnel round for the rpg-7 but if you don't have any gun decking an fragmentation sleeve is the best work around..
Now this content i want to watch!!!!
Impressive anti personnel warheads have been made for these RPGs for years, i wonder why they dont make more. They make a huge explosion and with just an iron sight you can aim them pretty accurately if you have the correct range. Theyrr decent upgrade to a grenade launcher and certainly something which would b nuseful at blowing away whole areas of trenches. Something firing anti personnel warheads repeatedly with an automatic mechanism would be simple to design and devastating in defense or covering infantry attacks.
Because its been a long time since governments capable of buying those warheads in large numbers have experienced large scale trench warfare.
To me, they look as thought they are made from lengths of (three inch?) steel or iron pipe, not rolled sheet. The centering base plate would be easy to turn on a lathe from aluminum stock. A few people have speculated on the grooves, and of course these could be made any number of ways: Ground, machined with various saws, milled... but in any case, that could be done on very simple jigs.
Must have a large surplus of AT rockets and almost no AP fragmentation rockets, smart and great way to make up a homemade ammo that gives you the anti-personnel rocket you need without sacrificing the AT capabilities
When one side is fighting against much larger foe, it ought to improvise to win
Are there estimates on how the added fragmentation affects trajectory?
The US hand grenade has a long stainless steel bar twisted to fit that has indentations every 1/2 inch , very similar to these new RPGs
If they are still using the shape charge deign warhead, then it will not be as effective as a non-shape charge. I hesitate to offer detailed advice on better methods, so I will not provide my 2 cents on much better and cheaper fragmentation systems. However, the US Military used the Pineapple Grenade and found the fragmentation was not uniform as intended. There are current weapon systems with much better fragmentation designs. I can also think of a few in the field methods that would cost less and provide better outcomes.
1:55 WoW! You would need a wave-shaper aka. Explosive Lense in this one to be effective against the Armor as intended in this case!
losing your IFV to an RPG would suck enough, but having half the nearby squad take shrapnel from it too...
I wander how effective they actually are?
Probably mediocre. Fragmentation at that height spreads out too much for imprecise fire to have a great effect. It does aid the suppressive effect though, as you'll notice the additional fragments splatter down around you.
Now, if you shoot one through a window, that might be another story for anyone in the room...
@@erloriel You only need one small piece of shrapnel hitting an artery for it to be fatal.
Lower than expected effectiveness most likely. The scoring is too shallow for the thick sleeve, so it doesn't create even fragmentation.
And the sleeve placed on the engine section is purely dead weight as the engine remains basically intact during warhead detonation, and contains no explosives.
since the ukis are winning the war, they must be super effective - that is if you believe their propaganda :)
@@holdfast5332 Looks to me like he's getting consistent airbursts, so he knows what he's doing - maybe they're going off a tad too high, and like OP hints in his question, I wonder if it's particularly useful.
Against Green con scripts the morale effect could be good.
Og-7v frag (which is factory made antipersonnel) doesnt have rocket engine so it has shorter effective range than this type of custom made stuff
It’s not a bad idea. But it will reduce velocity and range, as well as screw with aiming, not that RPG’s are meant to be particularly accurate. In any case, necessity is the mother of invention.
0:59 This “TRENER!” Grenade,AT LEAST THE LOWER CUP WHERE THE EXPL. Is looks like aomething canibalized from the Czech “Komar” fire-and-forget rocket-gun with the foldomg buttstock (You heart that right)! Apparently,deapite their small size those are one of the best engineered shaped charges of the Eastern Block! If only they had a bit bigger version!❤😊
I've seen rpg7 with hand granades taped making the spoons appear in the safe position as if someone held them thr rpg is fired but what was the final destination was like I've no idea !
Were those ball-like things taped to the rocket at the end, 40mm grenades? First I though Christmas tree balls lol
2:25, if I recall correctly, the maximum range before self destruct for the RPG 7 is 900 meters. I have not checked the internet for this information before posting my comment, so, it could be wrong.
2:41, well ok then!
@TheArmorersBench any news on the Vepr rifle video? Also I’d like to know why Ukraine’s state space agency of all places requested the rifle.
It must have multiple cells of fast burning propellant and burn slowly enough to not just make it an explosion but projected chemi/kinetic force that uniformly always burns that way intrigues me is the crystalline structure a solid single crystal or powders that are packed a certain way
thats so smart. rpg is cheap, abundant, and piratical. now modding it with fragments become versatile
Must admit that the RPG is a great platform. Cheap to make and cheap to shoot (comparatively)
So, the HEAT warheads self destruct after a certain distance, which is why we are seeing these airbursts at 0:28 and onward.
These are bursting too high in the air to be of significant effect unfortunately, They would be better used in a more direct fire role because of the nature of the improvisations, or at least angled a hell of a lot lower so they explode closer to the ground.
As I understand it there were two types of grenade offensive and deffensive . An offensive grenade , which required it to be possible to throw it further than its letal zone . Because you did not want to be killed by your own grenade due to lack of cover . The German stick grenade is of that type . And a deffensive grenade with a larger letal zone , that would be thrown from behind cover which would protect you from the blast . The Brittish Mills Bomb is a defensive type grenade .
Yes they've made modern ones now though that have a switch on for either option. A lot,of offensive grenades have no fragmentation and rely purely on concussive and pressure force. Tbh theyre useless beyond throwing into enclosed spaces.
Rather than having to bend a sheet into shape, scoring a steel tube of the correct diameter would seem easier. Can’t imagine what it does to the accuracy & range though
If the point is to yeet shrapnel all around an enemy position, accuracy isn't so important. Anti-tank use needs a direct hit, but anti-personnel use can be a "close enough" kind of deal.
It's psychological supressive fire(with an RPG😂). 10%chance you will get hit... but if you do you will be mangled. The unpredictable nature makes it more terrifying
shouldve just stuck some of those wheel balancing weights on the warhead :'D
Most of these appear to be really ineffective designs.
The sleeve is really thick but the scoring is too shallow. Meaning the scoring is purely cosmetic at best, aerodynamically harmful at worst.
The placement of the sleeve is also questionable. Many rockets feature a sleeve fitted below the warhead, or on the engine section. The PG-7 rockets have a nice RDX/HMX filler, depending on the model, but the blast and fragmentation of the warhead is focused forwards due to the shaped charge effect and the wave shaper. Normally this results in a forwards projected double ring pattern, one ring from the nose cone, one from the warhead body. A sleeve placed behind the warhead or on the engine will have close to zero effect or will just end up being outright detrimental for performance.
Lots of people think russian designs are half-baked and underengineered and they can do better, like most of AK aftermarket parts that actually hurt performance and reliability.
OG-7 is a very nice anti-personnel grenade, what it lacks in range compared to PG-7V it makes up in compactness and you'd use them in an urban setting anyway to light up rooms across the street.
@@Klovaneer The greatest weakness of the OG-7 is its fuze, the GO-2. In theory it should be graze sensitive with inertia fuzing in addition to the point detonating function. In practive the fuze's sensitivity is really random and unpredictable. When "High Caliber Commotion", a russian propaganda gun channel tested it, the grenades were fired at the frontal glacis of a destroyed T-72. Both times the fuze failed to function. Now the front armor of the T family is a difficult target for non-piezo mechanical fuzes, but the shock and deceleration from the impact should have been enough to trigger the inertia fuze. He was far enough from the target where the safety should have disengaged already.
And finally, some models have ribs to aid fragmentation, some don't. Again, same issue as with the sleeves in the video,sort of. The grooves are deep enough in this case, but they should be on the inside to have the best effect. Alas, that would greatly increase the costs of production. The smooth model with its natural fragmentation is "cheap and cheerful" as the russians like to put it, but it shows on its performance. Again, when our russian friend tested them, the frag pattern was really iffy.
They should do what they did with the Shmel. Take the already existing thermobaric grenade, switch out the reportedly shitty thermobaric filler for A-IX-2, and put a small EFP lense in the nose. Bam, proper anti infantry/structure defeat munition. The range will be short, but its not like you can hit point targets with the RPG's iron sights past 200 meters.
@@Steve-mr5un A-IX-2 is actually a quite good thermobaric explosive. I dunno why Shmel used the IPN/Mg mixture - that's like 5 $ cheaper but much worse in every other respect. Propper fragmentation sleve would have to consist of on or two thin steel plates with 3 mm diameter tungsten balls or cubes. The thickness and type of steel would have to be determined in a shot arena. Warhead desing is not trivial and the fragmentation sleves used here are completely ineffective.
@@nehorlavazapalka Tungsten fragments, and pre-made fragments in general, are very expensive within the context of small shoulder fired munitions. They are mostly found in modern higher end systems such as the 84mm D441 and HE448 for the Carl Gustav, the RGW90 LRMP, to name a few. These were designed to work with smart sights and heavier weapons. These weapons are both premium and new when compared to something like the Shmel. This is more of an apples to oranges type of situation.
To add something regarding the filler. According to admittedly biased russian forums, the Shmel might actually suffer from the same issue as the RShG-1 Thermobaric launcher. Supposedly the original filler, for which the name I couldn't find for the life of me, had a very nice visual and audio effect when fired at various targets. This pleased the top brass. However, the effectiveness of this filler on open terrain was very lackluster. Some people got fired and now the filler is just HMX with some aluminum dust. Less showy but more effective. They basically made a copy of the 84mm ASM 509, which is just a tube with 2 kg's of HMX. I suspect the same change was implemented with the newest Shmel model, hence why the warhead drawing to features a small EFP in the nose. A slow thermobaric detonation wouldn't make for effective penetration performance, RDX or HMX on the other hand... Still not an anti armor system, but now it has a noticable effect on very light armored targets and buildings.
I've seen machined frag bombs being strapped to FPV drones lately. They look to be mass-produced.
Those look like sheet lead with scoring to allow for controlled fragmentation
Myself included, trying to debate what is effective and the ranging technique of this situation, if it works, it works. Be thankful you're not the one doin it atm
The PIAT had a secondary role as a mortar so why not? Some HEAT munitions already have anti personnel fragmentation designed in to the warhead.
I never knew that RPGs had a self-destruct feature. Is it a common feature for rockets and recoilless rifles?
You should make a video on the shovel warheads that have been seen in Ukraine as well.
I have! Here you go czcams.com/video/KTvsf94J31M/video.html
@@TheArmourersBench Oh nice!
there are warheads that go in the rpg that is designed for fragmentation the russians dont need to attache a home made one like that if iam not wrong i saw a vid from seriens using one rpg round that diffrent in shape
Would gluing BB's to the warhead also add to the frag effect?
Yes I think so.
Most probably used as close in improvised artillery filling in the role of an 2inch commando mortar or 30/40mm grenade. Russians may be able to call in indirect artillery fire from heavier guns, given their more numerous resources available to them vis a vis the Ukrainians. Also it may give a view into the tactics of the Ukrainians.. Probably seeing small unit (section level) engagement against static enemy defences. However given the trajectory and angle of the shot I'm assuming they are aiming at 200+ meters. So probably a Russian trench line is the target. Would be nice if someone could give more context on this engagement.
They should use lead wheel weights. I know someone who made a sparkler bomb and wrapped wheel weights around it and he put it into a heavy steel trash dumpster and it completely destroyed the dumpster and his own car 20ft away.
War that features both cutting edge technology and MakGyverovich type of improvisations in the field.
Pure insanity.
Can someone explain how a HEAT-round wich normally has its explosive effect pointed forward, can give fragmentation effect with a sleeve at the rear part of the grenate/missile? As far as I know, a HEAT-round will not give an all around expanding pressure effect, but I might be wrong.
The HEAT charge focuses most of its energy forward into shaping the cone penetrator, but some energy will also be released radially away from it. So there will still be enough energy to produce fragments from the sleeve wrapped around it
There may also be some added explosive inside the sleeve but it's impossible to confirm that from the available imagery.
Same question I had. Also seems like it would have a negative effect on accuracy as it shifts the intended center if mass of the warhead and adds drag.
@@AmericanDiscord He's using it in an indirect fire manner and I'm pretty sure he's consistently (and therefore presumably intentionally) getting airbursts out of them.
Maybe they have a huge stock of these things and seeing as the Russians are rapidly running out of working armour, don't mind wasting RPG rounds like this.
Shaped charge can focus forward 25...35% of energy. Other energy goes around as usual.
Them sleeves are rings out of the inside of old Soviet era anti- personnel rockets
Why no hickok45 or demolition ranch?
Shortcut: Stick rows of gravel on duct tape and wrap the tape around the rocket. Will kill your accuracy, but is cheap as hecc, and fast as lightning to make.
Could be lead sheet cut with a knife ?
They look extremely close to a sheet of Lead stick on Weights ...for balancing tires & wheels. They come scored already and perfect for the job...lol
Could be couldn't they.
They should add some gabbage to it to spice thing up :D
I saw a video the other day where they shot a shovel out of an RPG
Further proof Duct tape fixes everything at the end lol.
Learned something new today. I didnt know RPG warheads had a self destruct range of 950 m
Yeah, the "time out" explosion was a measure to avoid litter the field with unexploded granades while on the advance; the idea to use it as a kind of air burst came after.
I wonder if the same effect could be achieved by coating the warhead in sticky adhesive and then cover it in metal BB's.
They don't leave much of a launch signature either!
i expected some heatsinks taped on
RPG with grenade launcher ball end of ball bearings looks brutal lol
3:30 its like a cast Lead! Probably hardened with 2% of
Have some one heard enything about
Rpg carl gustaf "cluster" amunision
Are is that just roumers?😮
Actually ingenious but I do wonder how much it will affect the felt recoil to the user
well, think about rocket launchers in general, how much recoil do they have?
@@user-cr3ti1vj6f a considerable amount
There’s usually a limited number of rounds/rockets one man can withstand in a day
it seems like it would completely screw with the rocket's accuracy. Not only to don't have optics or sights calibrated for these types of improvised warheads, but the rocket itself was not engineered for the additional weight and loss of aerodynamics. It makes sense to use this in urban areas, since you can shoot it into rooftops or into buildings from a few yards away, but the fragmentation from those sleeves makes it as effective as a general grenade at best. It would be like boring out your rifle's rifling so that it can fire larger rounds, any benefit your getting will not outweigh the losses. You're better off just using the warheads normally, because the concussive blast alone is enough to do some damage, and you have a greater probability of hitting them.
it just seems like a very expensive way to solve a problem that a M79 or any grenade launcher can solve, or your already existing OG-7 warheads, and more effectively.
3:18 They wrapped sleeve around the base of the grenade where no HE (sorry for my english)
It is also a shaped charge, so most damage is dealt in front - but that doesn't mean the back of the grenade would not tear the sleeve. Would it be safe to hold it in hand by the end part, since there is no HE?
The duct tape on the helmets is clever too. Reduces FF accidents.
Assuming that the rocket is still flying horizontally when it self-detonates and if so then only about one third of the fragments from the jacket would be directly (mostly) blown down. The other two thirds of the jacket would only have the velocity given to it by gravity so this seems quite wasteful as an anti-personnel warhead! I don't believe that RPGs are equipped with a adjustable bubble level for ranging so experience would be more important for accuracy! If the anti-personnel rockets were equipped with front-mounted rods (perhaps fiberglass) to give a above-ground detonation with impact detonators and they were launched like mortars rounds then the fragmentation pattern would be a 360 degree horizontal pattern which would be much more effective against troops on open ground! Or does this already exist?
Has there been any results on how well these things work?
Yes, there have been. Most of the Ukrainian military are now dead and as a result, Zelensky is not enlisting 45-60 year-old men to fight his war, since 90% of the Ukrainian young men are dead and burried
@@baneofbanes 1. Im American
2. There is no stalemate. If this is what CNN tells you to repeat, I can understand your lack of critical thinking. Ukro-nazis are talking today about surrendering.
A stalemate is when neither side can advance. Russia is advancing whooping ukro a$$ on a daily basis. All you have to do is ;look at the Ukrainian battle map map online
@@onlinebills9169 if there’s no stalemate than why haven’t the Russians or Ukrainians made any significant gains in the last year?
And if you’re an American that’s just pathetic, spouting off literal Russian propaganda that has no basis in reality.
@@onlinebills9169cope
slap some tire balancing weights on for added effect
Looks like a schedule 80 pipe scored with a battery powered grinder.
I wonder if tungsten ball bearings would be better