Will Switch 2 Outperform Steam Deck... And What About Series S?
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- čas přidán 21. 04. 2024
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whatever it is, we'll probably be disappointed by the hardware, but then somehow it will have games that are far better than you'd expect. This has happened since the DS and Wii at this point.
games can be great but if they run like a slideshow where the standard of gaming is a way more smooth experience its gonna be way more noticeable this generation, especially since its the switch's 1# issue even from casuals and little kids.
@@StarmenRock Yeah it's usually Nintendo's own titles that are perfectly tailored to the hardware that impress greatly. But third party support has been a Nintendo issue in one way or another (either not having it, in the past, or having bad performance, with the Switch) for a long time
@@KindOldRaven even the first party titles run horribly most of the time, i think the only one that doesn't underperform constantly is mario wonder
@@StarmenRock Stuff like mario odyssey and the splatoon games looked and ran really nicely. TOTK was impressive it even managed to run at all on that toaster in the demanding scenes IMO. Third party stuff often falls into that category of, "impressive this exists, but I'm not going to play that game at 640p 20fps lol"
@@StarmenRockGames running like a "Slideshow" is a common exaggerated criticism brought up by haters nowadays.. Yes there are framedrops (It exist in any Console)
When in fact games like MHRise/Majority of the First Party titles/Heck even Witcher 3 is running pretty reasonably well for how small this device is... If a game is running like a slideshow in a device it only means that those devs are incompetent in porting their games...
Will Switch 2 Outperform Steam Deck? No. Will Switch 2 SALES Outperform Steam Deck? Yes.
I mean Nintendo gets HUGE money from switch as much as they dont wanna spend more, they have the Money, they might spend more on Nvidia tech
Steamdeck has only sold 5 million world wide, its not even in the same realm. Imagine this, a steamdeck is more expensive then a ps5.....
@SWOTHDRA5 million is not confirmed they have only said multimillion amd it is expected to be in 3-3.5million range only.
WAY too many people online forget about the battery life part. Probably because they never leave their house anyway lol. But Nintendo definitely learned their lesson early on from the very humble Game Boy beating way more technically advanced systems like the Game Gear in large part because of that factor.
Even if Switch 2 is more powerful than Deck, it will still have significantly longer battery life on account of it's ARM microarchitecture being more efficient & optimised for mobile than AMD64.
Kind of a loaded statement, battery life is literally always mentioned.
The steam deck is an out dated apu now. People know the Switch 2 will be Arm based.
@@powerfulaura5166arm is mostly less power hungry because it has less working power.
We will see if the difference is notable big when the switch 2 releases.
Cant have a DF video without the word 'bespoke', its so iconic xD
Will Steam Deck 2 exceed Switch 3 performance?
😂
Hopefully, the Steam Deck 2 has USB5 and therefore eGPU support.
@@user-ds8rj2vc4vI agree
AMD APUs will never catch up to ARM/Nvidia combo at the same wattage.
@@Wobbothe3rdswitch wouldn’t be at the same wattage, it’d be like 7 watt tdp max if they’re going for a similar form factor and weight to the first switch
I mean Switch 2 will definitely outperform Deck at least in some ray-tracing and AI stuff and then in a couple of years Deck 2 will obviously outperform Switch 2. I feel like it's something that not even worth being bothered about
*pressing X to Doubt*
@@michaelmonstar4276it's not far fetched to think about, Nvidia's ARM chips have grown considerably, but still the biggest problem with the switch 2 is that it will have to have a lot of games ported over to it
People need to remember that Nintendo is NOT trying to out-muscle other platforms. They have carved a niche for themselves where they have NO competition.
Nobody else makes Zelda or Mario games. Hell, they didn't gave a damn that Palworld took a bite of their Pokemon pie.
At the end of the day, the vast majority fans of the original Nintendo IPs will not adopt a Steam Deck or an emulator to play those games with better performance. As long as the gameplay is FUN, they won't care.
I mean that Splatoon clone for PS5 looks visually better than Splatoon. And some Splatoon players tried to play it. But what killed FoamStars was the fact that it just wasn't fun or even as quirky as Splatoon.
IMO, the Switch 2 probably won't be significantly more powerful than a Steam Deck. But it will have features that will outperform it.
EDIT: To follow up on the last point, it came out recently that the Switch 2 will have a 1080p screen, compared to the Deck's 720p. This means that the Switch 2 needs to have a more advanced battery. In order to justify having an HD screen resolution.
Also, the fact that Nintendo decided to go with a 1080p capable screen for handheld mode instead of sticking with a 720p screen, that could imply that the device might have DLSS upscaler capabilities. Which means that low-res games from the original Switch will be displayed on the Switch 2's screen in a higher resolution. They will look better.
So yeah, seems that the Switch 2 will have more advanced features than the Steam Deck. But I've seen people wondering if it will come close to the PS5. I don't think so, LOL
This. For Nintendo it's the experience that matters, not the power of hardware.
Yes, Nintendo doesn't compete on performance, but performance still matters to some extent. As much as I loved Tears of the Kingdom, there's no denying it would've been an even more enjoyable experience if a 30 fps lock could be maintained during intense fights with extensive use of Ultrahand machines.
I don't need 4k textures or ray tracing to enjoy a game, but I need a stable framerate no matter what.
Palworld took no bite it was just flappy bird basically.
@@JohnSmith-bt4lfThe thing is that A LOT of Nintendo fans don’t even know about that so it doesn’t effect sales.
Steam Deck won't take a bite of Switch sales because it's still for a very "hardcore" audience, battery life is unacceptable and there is still "PC issues with it".
A proper and well supported Playstation portable console on the other hand would damage Switch 2 sales in a severe way. Switch lived during its entire live cycle as the only handheld option and that is the biggest reason why it was a massive success, not because of its first party IPs, that was an important factor, but not the most important.
No matter how powerful the hardware, Nintendo knows how to use it very freaking nicely, that games will look in a far better quality that you would expect
The most powerful console is currently the third best selling. Nuff said.
Ah, yes, because sales are indicative of one platform being worse over others.
Way to implicate you inherent biases.
@@Game4Lordlol, yes, they are, particularly when we're talking about things that sell millions worldwide.
@@Game4Lordwhy so defensive? What he's saying is exactly right, besides it can mean multiple things when it comes to what he thinks personally.
Power isn't as cut-and-dried as comparing two numbers. A 1GHz ARM chip today is immensely more powerful than a 1GHz Celeron made 20 years ago. Likewise: if you're just comparing numbers, the Steam Deck's GPU is about as powerful as a 750ti. That may be true in most cases but it'll look much better doing it.
Actually, the Steam Deck GPU is more often compared to the GTX 1050.
@@swordlunge i know it is. i compare it to the 750ti.
@@MyNameIsBucketbut that comparison would be incorrect, as the 750ti is can not achieve similar performance levels to the steam deck apu. For example a 1050 get a 56% higher framerate in Fortnite than the 750ti.
@@RusticRonnie that may be true for the OLED model, though i imagine it's ever so slightly behind. the steam deck is, after all, not a 1080p gaming machine. the point being, which you would know if you actually understood the comment you responded to, is that they look similar on paper despite the vast difference in visual fidelity.
@@MyNameIsBucket Sure.. if we invent a weirdly specific layman who lloks at numbers rather than benchmarks or precedent, you're absolutely right about your OC.
From just guesses based on Nintendo’s previous patterns for like the last 2 decades, I can’t really see the switch 2 being as big as a steam deck and other pc handhelds.
The switch was such a hit because it was just the right balance between size and home console ‘quality’.
It’s not pocketable. But it’s got enough battery life for on the go.
It’s not as powerful, but is just enough for Nintendo games to pop out (most of them).
The biggest crutch handhelds have is their battery. With the lack of dev into it (for one reason or another…), you can’t keep adding on more power without sacrificing size, weight and battery life.
I don’t think we’ve seen any leaks that point towards this, but if they really wanted to make a handheld and a more powerful console, one option is making the dock contain a gpu and such to boost home performance, which we initially thought would be the case for the switch. But besides that, I can’t imagine switch 2 to be any more powerful than the deck (raw performance. They may start to implement ai tools).
You people are forgetting that the steam deck is not in any way new. It will be 3 years old when super switch launches. Not to mention they have dlss backing them up.
they wanna sell it as a profit like always too, but they gotta figure out a way to make games run better than 720p 16fps. it's not cute anymore
I can see the Switch 2 ditching the cooling fan inside the unit; working at modest clock speeds for a thinner look and more battery life. The dock would have a cooling fan though.
Bespoke has entered the chat
Just needs the new buzz word “holistic” as in a holistic approach to gaming.
It was bespoken in the holistic prophecy
Is that the sequel to Forspoken
It was bespoke in a holistic manner
I wish these mfs would say custom.
I often see them take questions at face value because someone uses the word "Power" when in fact they simply mean will the visual fidelity look as good or greater than steam deck and Series S. We don't care about how it gets there we want to know if it gets there. Can I be playing a game on my Switch 2 and have it look as good as my Series S or Steamdeck.
I’m ready for switch 2. I know we are gonna end up getting a port of Elden ring, dragons dogma 2 and more. As someone who loves handheld gaming I would buy these again just to play in handheld.
Just get a next gen handheld for that (Deck or Ally 2 for example), they'll definitely outperform, considering the first gen already might, and potentially come out sooner. I only play games on Nintendo hardware when I'm absolutely forced to, idk why they're so hard-core about locking down their ecosystem without offering hardware for enthusiasts
@@decegrease Because Nintendo make their own console and first party titles... Just like how Apple has this close ecosystem to it.
They don't want to compete power-wise with PS5/Xbox since that market is already saturated so what they're trying to provide here is a handheld/portable at a reasonable visuals and framerate.
@@decegreaseI’m not going to disagree with you. An open(ish) platform like the Steamdeck is gonna be a better option.
The thing that always gets me is that Nintendo software is something else (no wonder they shit down emulation…) - I had to get an launch day Switch for Zelda - Nintendo staples are insanely compelling.
@@vivid8979 they could release PC ports and not have to worry about competing with Xbox or PS5 hardware, and it would also massively neuter emulation of Switch games. But that would be too consumer friendly for Nintendo. Comparing them to Apple isn't exactly flattering in this regard lmao
@@decegrease Asking PC port for Nintendo IP is like asking for android on iPhone or Big Mac at Burger King.
Nintendo want to sell their console. Exclusives is their main selling point. Why would Nintendo port their games to PC aside the demand coming from PC gamers?
I myself a PC gamers, and I want Nintendo to do their own thing and innovate instead of joining the resolution races of other platform. Nintendo Switch proven that AAA gaming can be done on handheld and is the reason why handheld PC like Steam Deck exits. In the past people keep saying handheld gaming is dying, and Nintendo saved handheld gaming.
I want Nintendo to popularize a new way of gaming, like with AR, VR or bringing back 3D gaming. Way more exciting than "my PC/console can do 4k 120fps bla bla'. The boring pixels counting races.
it's all about market share. The switch sold like crazy with nearly 33M, while the Steam Deck has sold a couple millions, probably 2-3M. With those numbers, ofc more ports will exist on the switch 2 given the sales of the first switch. That does not make it more powerful in Ops, but marketshare.
I think a part of those switch sales number is because of the global pandemic. People were confined to their home and both the ps5 and the Xbox Series x were not in stock in stores, the Nintendo Switch was readily available worldwide
The obvious speculative answer is it'll have more bells and whistles with less raw performance because of Nvidias hw. I think the battery life and weight will make it interesting, but you can't compete with steams library + all the functionality of the steam deck though .
Nintendo's library is better then steam thats filled with shovelware, early acces crap. Steam is just like the android store , just valume and a lot of crap. With botched versions of a game who play better somewhere else
@@SWOTHDRA youre entitled to your wrong opinion.
@@stinklord420 LOL I am a PC user myself, i love Gaben and Steam, but sorry, the dude is not objectively wrong
Possible on tsmc 4nm, not on samsung 8nm.
I swear... if they call that bloody thing "Super Switch" we're going to have a Wii U situation all over again. It may be nostalgic for people who remember the Super Nintendo but you need to remember, to a modern gamer "Super" doesn't indicate "New Console"
Far better of a name than “Wii” to “Wii U” and Super indicates stronger power
@@lutherh6090 Yes, stronger power, not a successor.
No way, hard disagree. Super Nintendo switch would sell.
@freddyism3 One of the reasons the Wii U failed is that nobody knew it was a new console, most people wouldn't realise "Super Switch" is a completely new system, Do you think Aunty Dorris who is buying little Timmy a Christmas present is going to understand that the regular Switch can't play "Super Switch"
games or that it's an entirely new console? I hope Nintendo has learnt and ditched the quirky names.
Switch NX 😉
I imagine Switch 2 will be a similar size to Switch 1. I cant envision something as large as a Steamdeck/Ally/Go/Claw.
That'd mean a tiny space to handle the power and cooling. Biggest benefit besides DLSS and a newer architecture would be having very little overhead with another lightweight operating system compared to Windows/Linux PCs other handhelds have to manage.
It’s going to have an 8 inch screen, which means it will probably be a bit bigger
Seriously doubt it will be that powerful. It’s Nintendo we’re talking about after all.
yeah and there are rumors they'll use 8nm process which also limits the performance. Series S is build on 7nm and SteamDeck OLED on 6nm.
100% agreed
People should not expect the switch 2 to be even on a ps4 level. The PS3 already blows the switch out of the water with its Cell BE CPU and RSX GPU thats how outdated the switch is. Even the Vita outperforms it in some benchmarks. A more realistic expectation would be a PS3.5 or Xbone level of performance. Anyone even believing it would be as powerful as a base PS4 is out of touch with technology. The best people should expect from switch 2 performance would be Xbone and thas being extremely generous
@@CheckmateStallioN The Switch litteraly surpass the PS3 power , i mean Steam Deck is outdated in 2024 , way more in 2025. In 2022 it was not he best what we can don in portable device , so yes a Switch 2 can be equal or better than a Steam Deck.
@@CheckmateStallioN switch losing to ps vita? Lol cmon man...
It’ll probably be a little less powerful than Legion GO and steam deck but Nintendo’s games should look really good on it 🤷🏻♂️
I think they could do Series S performance by using an oculink type port to dock in. Like y'all said it will have bespoke ports built to the hardware so I think it's feasible to have that type of system.
No Nintendo isn't known for graphics, but I wish they would give the hardware a bit more power. TOTK was good but the inconsistent frame rate really hurt it for me.
A lotta people in the comments exaggerating the weak performance when it comes to Nintendo consoles. I would LOVE to see a PS5 or at least a Series S level of performance in a hybrid handheld, but that'd be a pretty unrealistic expectation to have. Unless someone could create Tony Stark's Arc Reactor for like $30, then maybe we could cram those beastly tech inside a tiny handheld and not have it run for only 10 minutes before dying out. Unfortunately commercial battery tech isn't quite there yet.
I really love the Switch, but even I'm not blind to the system's rapidly aging dinosaur tech. But I also wouldn't mind a PS4/Pro level of performance like the Steam Deck too (which I do own one and love as well), because video game graphics had pretty much peaked during that time of gaming generation anyway (not that gaming visuals couldn't look better or more realistic now than it could before of course).
What I'm more interested in seeing however, is HOW Nintendo will leverage those PS4/Pro level of raw performance with the help of modern upscalers like DLSS and other modern features that the PS4/Xbox One hardware couldn't support. We've seen how amazing some first-party Nintendo games can look on the Switch (Luigi's Mansion 3 and Metroid Prime Remastered just to name a couple), imagine how even more awesome those titles can look and perform on the Switch 2 or whatever.
Having powerful tech is great, but quality software is just as important I'd say. Just as having good graphics are nice, but gameplay is still king. And Nintendo is usually pretty good at both of these through their stylistic choice of art direction over realism and fun gameplay first over story (which I wish they could've done both good to be honest). All in all, I just want Nintendo's next system to be another Switch-like hybrid, but with better everything than what the current Switch is.
I think it will. Nvidia chip . Using the superior dlss and there frame insertion plus dedicated optimization on games . It's not all about raw power . What it won't surpass is the legion go and rog ally . Those handhelds are beast
Nope, at most, it might be on par with the deck lol that's what I'm betting on
What do you think Nintendo is even going to do with the rest of the money? That console will be dirt cheap to make, they could charge 200 dollars for it. They’re going to make it more powerful than a steam deck.
@@minecrafter3448I don’t think it’s possible right now due to power draw. There’s a reason the SD is 3x larger than a Switch… the Switch 2 will be similar sized to the original Switch so thermals are a limiting factor.
@@Bendaak The console will be bigger than the switch, we know this because of the 8 inch screen
@@BendaakARM doesmt have issues with thermals the same way your ancient x86 box has.....
If Switch 2 doesn't exceed a ps4pro and series S, it won't be the same succes the Switch was. People tend to forget that a part of the reason the Switch was so successful is because it was the only console readily available during a global pandemic, where sony and microsoft had trouble getting the new console on the market
If there’s anything the Switch 1 can tell us about the Switch 2, it’s that in practice there won’t really be any direct comparison console for what it’ll be capable of doing.
I sincerely doubt it, switch 2 will be on the low end, nintendo dont like paying for good/up to date fast hardware
The Switch is 1/5 the power of a PS4. I expect Switch 2 to be slightly weaker than the Steam Deck due to far lower clock speeds and not enough system memory. It will have advantages though like 8 CPU cores instead of only 4 cores and Nvidia DLSS over AMD FSR.
Far lower clock speeds? I don't expect the clockspeeds to go beyond 2Ghz. If I'm being conservative, 1.5GHz could be possible. But maybe you don't know that SD only 4 CPU clocks, with 3 available for gaming (up to 3.5GHz per CPU core)... This is compared to 8 A78(c) cores on Switch 7, and suddenly, overall raw CPU clock speeds on 3 CPUs vs 7 CPUs are closer than you think. The Zen 2 CPU does some things better than the A78, though, while A78C is supposed to have better IPC per GHz. But it's not gonna be an apples to comparison. Zen 2 CPU could have better single core performance, while A78s could have better multicore performance. We'll have a better idea when benchmarks for A78Ccs come out vs Zen 2, as well as actual real world comparisons. As for GPU, raw GPU clock speeds on Switch 2 will be similar to Steam Deck's 1.6TFLOPS. . But again, it's not all about raw clock speeds. The architecture is important A.MD's GPU on SD is supposed to perform better than Ampere's in rasterization, but Nvidia has better AI upscaling and ray tracing capabilities though. So even if Switch 2 on handheld mode doesn't beat SD in raw performance, it will manager to perform better in some scenarios with DLSS, and where more CPU cores matter.
DLSS will be the secret sauce for the switch 2.
Or the downfall
lol is that just what you've always called banjo-kazooie 🧩? I like it, and agree.
@@AdamMi1 Maybe for the enthusiast minority like you. Normal gamers will just think "wow looks good and feels smooth, time to enjoy the game". Always humbly remind yourself that the YT/Twitter/Reddit enthusiast community of any market has no real sway over a product's success.
@@xblur17 yes, but the current switch struggles already. The new one is going to stay a long time and DLSS is great, but it will be helpless with the resolutions that current switch games use. Developers will probably use DLSS as a fallback and push it beyond it's capabilities
@@xblur17 U can see how Wiiu end up. Nintendo fanboys can't enjoy childish games forever
Think people should start to understand electrical/physical restrictions, how should a mobile SoC in a small form factor device be able to outperform a chip in a stationary device, that is allowed to pull 10x more power and has the ability to dissipate the heat as well? Even if the manufacturing nodes have advanced, this is just not possible on a physical level.
Switch 2 has a power limit WAY below any console, it just can't....
can't see the switch outspec steamdeck, but developers will definitely put more effort into optimizing for switch 2, so games like DDG2 may actually be playable on switch 2.
I honestly think that the perception of Steam Deck having a poor battery life is a bit misguided. It has to do with games not being specifically optimized for the Steam Deck, and if they are optimized (like Cyberpunk's "Steam Deck" preset) they aren't necessarily optimized for battery life. Battery life optimization ends up in the hands of users, but I think Valve has failed to communicate this to end users, and even reviewers.
I have no trouble getting 7.5-9 hours in 2D games, 6hours from X360-era games, 3hours from modern AAA games like Cyberpunk (on the original LCD Steam Deck). which is as good, or even better than the OG Switch. If you don't touch the optimization utilities you will only get 1.5-2 hours in a game like Cyberpunk as the engine doesn't seem to tie instructions to the target FPS, but rather go full-blast on a "per tick" basis, forcing the game chew up all of the 15W available. Even if it doesn't really need all of that performance to run at 30fps. If you force the TDP down to 9W on the other hand and adjust settings accordingly you will get still get a solid portable 30fps experience and still enjoy 3hours of gaming. So if you don't want to mess about with optimizations, my tip is that you can always have a TDP limit of either 10-, 11- or 12W. Since the last 5W mostly end up as excess heat without much performance improvement.
If AAA games were optimized for battery life, we'd probably end up with potato mode switch settings and even worse performance, I'd rather sacrifice a battery life for decent 30/40fps performance with good settings that look well on a 7 inch screen.
Tell em.
@@Saif0412 I think you are missing my point completely... I am talking about games having logic updated on a per-tick basis rather than per-frame, resulting in CPU utilization that is skyrocketing (it doesn't do anything to visuals and performance). In a lot of cases the engine/game was not developed with low power utilization in mind.. I'm talking about Cyberpunk's "Steam Deck" setting targeting 15W usage (with unnecessarily high settings)
For Steam Deck optimized settings I think Valve should give more strict guidelines that settings should target ~3-10W TDP usage. If engine logic runs ahead by itself, utilizing all 15W they should automatically resort to a TDP cap. I mean, my Cyberpunk settings don't perceptually look much worse than what CDPR offers at 15W. it's just that I get almost 2x the battery life. I mean why the hell is "color precision" set to high!? Setting it to medium is basically free performance and you REALLY can't tell a difference. same goes with a lot of the high settings, on a small screen medium looks perceptually the same as high or very high.
“sUpeR sWitCh”…yeah,right. Never raise your expectations this highly on Nintendo hardware.
In my head I have a powerful dock with ssd with 4k and everything. And the switch itself could stay the same.
This way we have the backward compatibility and the ones having physical copies would also be satisfied.
Or it could be anything but the same switch concept.
What about CPU ? Switch use a quad-core ARM A57 at 1GHz, the 1st gen of 64bit ARM CPU. It’s garbage nowadays. It does need an upgrade.
It would be like going from PS4 to PS5, without the Zen 2 CPU upgrade, keeping last gen Jaguar CPU cores. It wouldn’t work.
By the time Switch2 releases, SteamDeck2 would be ready, with 16 or 18 RNA3.5 or RNA 4 graphic CUs, what is gonna save the Swtich 2 is, first party titles and DLSS. But since AMD is catcing up in upsaling and raytracing, I would think it will all come down to customer preference. Do you want a closed system, or an open one.
It will come down to price. If Nintendo wants to stay below $400 USD, then there is a good chance it will fall below SD specs in at least a majority of categories. Let’s not forget too that SD2 may be releasing in approx 2 years. That puts even more pressure on Nintendo if they still envision a 7-10 lifecycle from Switch2. IMO, next device may be more Switch 1.5 with a much shorter 5 year lifecycle a la Gamecube and WiiU.
My sentiments are very similar to your own. I personally think that will give them breathing room to develop a genuine successor to the Switch. Not just a Switch pro or Switch 1.5 as you've alluded to. There's no way Nintendo could milk a PS4 level hardware for another 7-8 years. 5 years with that level of power makes far more sense.
I hope Switch 2 is at least as powerful as a Steam Deck. I feel there is big chance that Nintendo will use less RAM (8 or 12gb) and heavily underclock it.
I seriously doubt that.
I just got a Legion Go. It has the power of a base PS4. Maybe a bit more. No way the Switch 2 is gonna have the power of the Series S.
The Steam Deck has the power of a base PS4 for its GPU. Hell, it exceeds it in many ways due to the newer GPU architecture having new tools and more efficient per clock speed. And the CPU runs laps over it. Bandwidth is the only thing I'm not sure about.
Never underestimate Nintendo... they've always been wizards.
It should be better than the steam deck due to having ARM which is much more power efficient so you can cramp more powerful HW into the same body or even smaller.
I hope there are two models of the switch 2 on release. A high end model, that includes an OLED, larger battery and other functions. Compute power, I’m not worried, it’s Nintendo and the only one platform not having the complexity of other Hardware platforms.
They already said LCD only on launch. Wait 4 years maybe.
Ir it doesn't outperform steam deck in 2025 it's an embarssment. The deck is not even on par with a base ps4 GPU wise in some cases.
In raw compute the Switch 2 will be weaker than a PS4. Due to memory bandwidth being significantly lower and Nintendo heavily under-clocking the GPU because of 8nm Samsung node process.
@@ZackSNetwork Uhh.. While the PS4 has more bandwidth, the Switch 2 will likely be okay most games. Newer GPU architectures (especially Nvidia) are a lot more efficient on using bandwidth for games. Like the Switch, the Switch 2 will use tile based rendering to save on bandwidth. As far as the node process, it's not confirmed to be using 8nm samsung. Even if it does, it's still likely to be more performant than PS4 in most situations due to a newer and more efficient GPU, and much faster CPU.. AS well as more RAM. I'm not even going to count DLSS.
I was really looking forward to a switch successor a couple years ago. Now, I'll probly just get the next iteration of the Steam Deck instead. Zelda and Metroid are the only Nintendo first party games I play, so I would get far more use and utility out of a handheld PC at this point.
source ?
It might be slightly more performant than a Steam Deck, but nowhere close to a Series S. My guess is it'll come in somewhere between the current Steam Deck and ROG Ally.
However, it will have the benefit over them of drawing less power (10W or under) which will give it a much better battery life. Of course it will also come with DLSS, although I doubt that it'll have FG capabilities (other than via FSR). RT will also likely be better than it is on the PC handhelds. However when you at this level, RT just becomes mute and pointless factor, anyway.
Games will also be better optimised for it, than those on the PC handhelds. Which again will also give it a bit of a boost.
If Switch 2 GPU ends up being around 3 TFLOPs or more in docked mode, then GPU wise, compared to Series S's 4 TFLOPS, it's gonna be closer to Xbone vs PS4. The biggest thing Series S has over Switch 2 is CPU power, which will be at least 2-3x as fast overall as Switch's A78C cores (7 3.5GHZ CPUs vs 71.5-2.0GHz CPU cores). Third, the Series S has twice as much RAM bandwidth available (+200 vs what's likely 102 GB/s). On the flip side,, the Series S's amount of RAM is abysmal--8GB for games.. Switch 2 will likely have around 12GB total, and likely more than 8GB for gaming. To summarize, the Switch 2 will be nearly weaker than the Series S in every way directly (minus RAM amount), but the Switch 2 could outperform Series S in specific scenarios with DLSS.
@@sselemaNrM The rumours are currently that it'll be using a modified T239 on 5nm with the clock increased to 2.6Ghz.
As for the GPU, less is known about it although a rumour from a while back, had it at 1536 Ampere Cuda Cores, 48 Tensor cores and 12 ray tracing cores on a 128bit bus. As for memory it's anyone's guess, although it could do with at least 12gb (although that's unlikely if on a 128 bit bus). Of course since it's been modified, there could also be other changes over a standard T239.
My guess is at best it'll be roughly on par to a current Z1 Extreme SoC. However like you said with the bonus of having DLSS, it could push games upto around a Series S performance. That's of course IF the game on Series S isn't also using some form of upscaling like FSR (which is likely).
Always watch this great channel.
Whatever we think Switch 2 is gonna be it's gonna amaze us in a disappointing way as always 😅
Lets be real Nintendo wont exceed steam deck on hardware and paper spec.but its Nvidia, im curious wat theyre cooking on the output.
It’s never about just power. Switch will be the best handheld. Because it’s meant too be that
Even if Nintendo SIGNIFICANTLY down-clocks the Switch 2' GPU (to say, 500 Mhz) to get decent battery life, that still puts it right around the raw power of a Steam Deck(supposing it has as many shader cores as that Nvidia leak of preliminary hardware suggested). It's CPU cores won't match Steam Deck's raw performance, but makes up ground in having more available cores.
In actual real world performance(handheld), it should perform notably BETTER than the Deck, given its more advanced GPU features. Even the Switch 2's CPU might get way better results in games that heavily rely on asset streaming, due to dedicated hardware to handle file decompression. A taxing process that the Deck is forced to run on the CPU.
In DOCKED MODE, however, it gonna be a no-contest. Switch 2 all day! It will be way closer to Series S performance than most think, AND it'll have some features that are either superior to, or possibly even non-existent on current Xbox hardware.
People are talking/typing without much thought. Just fanboyish rhetoric. They will be FORCED to take notice(of what makes an impressive handheld) soon. Balancing raw power, real world performance, battery life, functionality, form-factor, and mass-market price is NOT an easy task! ANYONE can make a powerful handheld at the expense of any one/all of those other aspects...
...But *The Superior Design - the TRULY impressive feat is: to strike the "perfect balance."* Switch did that years ago. Steam Deck came the closest since then. I expect Switch 2 to demonstrate that "Perfect Balance/Superior Design" all over again.
I'll agree with you in docked mode, but it's not that simple in handheld mode with the GPU. 1.6 TFLOPS on SD is different from 1.6 TFLOPS on Switch 2. RDNA 2 architecture has much better raster performance than Ampere. This is why they're saying the Switch 2 likely won't beat the steam deck in handheld mode. THE CPU is a bit of a toss up.. 3 CPUS at 3.5Ghz vs 7 A78C CPUs at 1.5Ghz for gaming should theoretically have the same total clock speeds.. But the Zen 2 CPU has better single-core performance than the A78s on benchmarks. We'll see with A78C (if we get that CPU) with real-world comparisons. I don't thinkSwitch 2 in handheld mode will be too far that far off from SD.
It really depends on what today's Tegra-equivalent Nvidia has in store.
None of you have any idea about what the next Nintendo console is going to be so this video is pointless. DF used to deal with facts, time to go back to that.
I think itll be less powerful but i think a lot of games will look and run a little better than the steam deck because there will be more incentive to optimize for it (devs hardly optimize for PC anyway, they just tell you to buy more expensive hardware lmao)
I don’t care about how detailed the textures are, just don’t make it look like total garbage on a 4k tv in 2025 or whenever it’s gonna come out.
Will it play cyber punk respectably? That’s a benchmark worth exploring.. explore it!
CDPR did a great job with Witcher 3 on the Switch! I hope they try to do the same with Cyberpunk on the Switch 2.
The leaks and rumors suggest it will have DLSS, with that in mind, I strongly believe it will have better performance than the Steam Deck and Series S. It's hard to say if the raw hardware will be more powerful, maybe, but it will have restrictions at least in handheld mode to preserve battery life and temperature and will most likely perform around the Steam Deck and better while mobile.
It’s not gonna be as powerful as a Series S keeping in mind that’s currently a few years off being able to be made portable power wise with battery efficiency and Nintendo will want to make it as cheap as possible.
I’d be surprised if it performs anywhere close to a Series S but as it’s only a small 720p screen the demand won’t be nearly as bad. I could see it exceeding Steam Deck performance with DLSS though.
Why? Steam deck and SS both already upscale using various methods FSR, TAAU etc and performance differences between FSR and DLSS is often at margin of error percentage difference.
It'll not exede a Series S, since it's a good 70%+ more powerful than the current PC handhelds. Even if it had DLSS performance mode turned on and the Series S wasn't using any form of upscaling, then it still wouldn't come close. Now if it had DLSS frame gen then it might just about reach the same level. However, since it sounds like it'll not have a Lovelace GPU, then it's also unlikely to have DLSS FG support (just plain DLSS 2 support).
I don’t want my Nintendo system to look like ps5 graphics. The graphics look hugh. I like a retro style graphics and color
Probably , the games theoretically should be optimized to switch 2 specific hardware
Why are they so adamant that no handhelld can touch the series?? It was quite small when it released and its 4 years old. If they made a slim version it would likely be the size of a as steam deck. Not saying the switch 2 will be that powerful but I'm sure some console will be
It’s more a matter of power consumption, it is theoretically possible to get that performance into a handheld but it would need a beefy cooling system and ginormous battery.
@@salocin9009 how is that different from any other handheld though? Vita performs like several OG xboxs put together despite fitting in your pocket. Switch is several times more powerful than PS3. Why would the series s be different from those?
@@Matt-jc2mlBecause the Series S released 4 years ago, not 11 years like between the OG Xbox (2001) and the Vita (2012) and between the Switch (2017) and PS3 (2006). If this pattern repeats itself then we can expect to have a reasonable Series S portable by early 2030/2031.
@@benjib2691 yeah but it's so little though. Maybe it won't be ready now but I think it won't be as long as past consoles. Maybe 8 years past release. There are already semi "portable" consoles with way more GPU power (still not CPU though). The rog ally has 8tflops but it's huge lol. Not comparable with a vita or even a switch 😂 but hopefully something could deliver within the next few years, would be an emulation beast
@@Matt-jc2ml I see and understand your point, it's just that I wouldn't hype myself beyond reason. If something reasonable (with a good enough battery life like the Switch OLED, a reasonable heat output and a reasonable size) comes out in 3 or 4 years then good 😃.
However be aware that TFLOPS numbers can't be directly compared between different architectures. If I'm not mistaken the ROG Ally is RDNA3 based, which means that the TFLOPS number is inflated compared to RDNA2 (what the Series S uses) and it does not reflect the actual in-game performance (long story short, the TFLOPS is inflated because a unit inside each CUs is duplicated, but this unit wasn't that much used for games anyway so it doesn't benefit them). It's the same story as between Ampere (RTX 3000) and Turing (RTX 2000 and GTX 16). To get a rough estimate of the RDNA2 equivalent TFLOPS number for a RDNA3 GPU you can divide the given number by 2 (so 8 TFLOPS RDNA3 would be roughly equivalent to a 3.5 to 4 TFLOPS RDNA2 GPU for in-game performance). That's why the PS5 Pro's 32 TFLOPS doesn't mean that it will be three times as powerful as the base PS5 (10,23 TFLOPS). I expect the equivalent RDNA2 number to be between 14.5 and 15.5 TFLOPS, which would be in line with the leaks saying that the PS5 Pro will offer a 45% performance gain without using any performance-enhancement tech.
If it's even close to Xbox One X power, it already will be an achievement! That's for sure.
I read "Will Smith 2 Outperform Steam Deck" I was like Wuttttt?!
I hope they will add soon after switch 2 version PRO with more power. I enjoeyd playing witcher 3 on switch but when i saw ultra graphic on PC or PS5 compared i was sad that i missed a lot of beauty that witcher 3 has and i dont want buy new console to feel the same with new AAA products😢 Still propably i will buy it as soon as it will be able to get😂😂😂
I want to know if we'll see upgrade patches from Switch 1 to Switch 2. Like PS4 to PS5.
There are way too many games on the Switch that will benefit from this, and would be a selling point of its own.
I think that the switch2 will be more powerful than people are giving it credit for.
I mean, look at what it needs to achieve. 1080p gaming at 60fps, and the games arent that taxing. With the new tech/hardware if this thing hits ps4 pro level gaming, the switch 2 is going to DOMINATE sales. This thing will look crazy on a hand held
I mean not even the ROG ally hits ps4 pro levels and that's 700 euros... Giving that the switch 2 will probably at max 399 it will be "good enough" at most
@kizanko again, look at the games the rog is playing. If you only played Nintendo switch games on the rog Ally, the games would be maxed out with ease.
I play mario Kart 8 switch version on mine, and it plays 1080p at 60fps in handheld mode.
And then you mentioned price, the ps5 and series x are $1400 computers at a $500 price point. Nintendo could make a $1000 switch 2, sell it at $400, and make it up by selling their games at $60 to $70.
@kizanko lol the ally has better performance then the ps5. Its a zen3 vs zen 2 xbox
@SWOTHDRA the ally.. is better than the ps5? I'm confused lol
@@SWOTHDRA U have no Idea what ur talking about lol
It’ll be a ps4 pro in terms of power. Add a Nintendo gimmick or two, plus the exclusives we all know and love to drive us in. GG
Not at all man the mobile GPU power does not exist by today’s standards and Nintendo never goes top of the line anyway. Expect Steam Deck performance while portable and even better while docked.
Ps4 pro power with dlss is great , modern architecture with Nintendo exclusives jeez
Nintendo has never focused on power, the last Nintendo system that was actually impressive specs wise was the GameCube and that didn’t do amazingly, I doubt switch 2 will be series s level.
switch 2 will be exactly twice as fast as switch 1 and capable of 4k with dlss while docked
The steamdeck is using zen 2. Tech that is five years old at this point but they’re speaking on it like it’s cutting edge technology that no one can beat. I’m sure nintendos new switch 2 will be a lot more powerful than they’re giving it credit for here. DF are some of the biggest steamdeck fanboys. Of course steamdeck deserves the praise but I think they’re dismissing how powerful arm chips have gotten and maintain far better efficiency than x86 will ever have.
It Will be more powerful than steamdeck can't imagine Nvidia putting out a chip weaker than AMD 680m.
When it comes to Nintendo, I don't really care too much about power really. Even if it's just a really clean 1080p image (maybe with upscalling) and we don't have a generation of really terrible frame rate issues, I'll be happy.
I find Nintendo have a knack with their games of giving us unimpressive stats, but impressive games. The Switch let them down with this, but hopefully this informs the design of the Switch 2 to be better during its life cycle.
Steamdeck beat Switch 1 and Switch 2 reunited
Will the Switch 2 'outperform' the Steam Deck on certain degrees, such as visuals (DLSS)? Perhaps.
Will it outperform the Deck on a software basis? Heck no. Unless Valve is involved.
Also, come on, guys... bad battery life on the Steam Deck is mostly a skill issue.
🤡🤡
If it’s not the same or better then why bother?
I HONESTLY believe Switch 2 will outpace expectations. I REALLY hope they keep the screen resolution at 720p for performance reasons.
The Ayn Odin 2 can play Switch titles at 1080, and its battery:performance ratio is just as good as that of the Switch, if not better.
Nintendo Switch 2 (family console) and Steam Deck OLED (just me) will be my machines. Nintendo franchises is what family like with little children or when friends are over to play Mario games.
It won’t matter because SteamDeck doesn’t get bespoke games and Series S is being treated as an afterthought sadly.
Publishers aren’t going to pay for time and talent to make anything performant but on Sony hardware due to contracts if we’re being honest. It’s always money.💯
Why not build a 4060 into the dock and we can have true 9th gen performance. I suppose the CPU in the switch 2 would bottleneck the 4060 heavily though. Can we just get a console finally Nintendo. Like make a full powered console and integrate a switch dock into it that works with Switch 1 and 2
Because it has yet to work out that great for Nintendo to chase power since the N64. N64 and GC chased power but sold far less than PS1 and PS2. The Wii was an anomaly. It sold a lot of consoles, but the power gap was also wide vs 360 and PS3, and AAA 3rd party support just went downhill. Wii U vs PS4/Xbone? lol. Honestly, it was the best decision Nintendo ever made in a long time to combine their handheld and home console development into a hybrid. More resources into one console.. While it can't compete in raw power, having it on the go sold it to the masses, and it was lightning in a bottle. Nintendo should never go to only consoles again.
Hilarious take knowing it's Nintendo whatever they create will barely be powerful enough to be considered 8th gen at best
As a rog ally user, i hope its essentially a switch pro that offers better visuals or framerate with game that support both and we can continue to emulate
I bought an Ally, I can't imagine a world where I would buy a Switch 2 when I already have the entire world of PC gaming at my fingertips anywhere I go.
Edit: posted from my Ally.
Edit2: Will the Switch 2 even have a web browser?? Doubt.
No. But Nintendo dont need the Switch to be more powerful. Look at what they managed with the OG. Surprising amount of power squeezed out of the tech 👍
But will it be able to boil an egg?
The Switch 2 will be wayyy more powerful than Steam's current gen from what I heard. More like xbox s to ps4 pro level! Matrix demo anyone?
It would actually be disappointing if the switch 2 isn’t more powerful than a steam deck. I think we’re setting expectations kinda low here don’t you think?
I put the switch 2 more powerful than Steam deck OLED but less powerful than ROG Ally but much better battery life than both of the handheld pcs combined which will make it a really good handheld device for Nintendo and should be able to get more PS4 games ported to the device like Elden Ring, GTAV and RE2 Remake and others I’m sure
Another bespoke day
Now the switch has competition because hand held P.Cs excist. So they have to do something differently. Im sure alot of peoppe will just buy it because they like nintendo. I dont think they have to make the moat insane performance ever. But it has to last years and be able to play new games.
I have a real world example: I have a series x and my partner has a nintendo switch. They wanted to get hogwarts legacy but wanted to play it the best hardware we have, so we got it for the xbox.
This question is so simple guys, come on. Look at the Xbox One X vs Xbox Series S. The One X has more teraflops and more RAM but which console has the better performance and graphics?
The only prediction I'm willing to make: Switch 2 will outperform Switch 1.
I just want Nintendo to make a new Ip that isn’t Zelda or Mario. Like can they actually stop resting on their laurels and think outside the box. Hardware is nothing if it’s Mario and and Zelda for another 7 years
I dont think it will be that powerful if Nintendo wanted to price their handheld around $399 - $499..
Ray tracing is pointless on a handheld. Unnecessary power draw, focus on DLSS for frame rate.
I don't have any issues with the Deck OLED battery life. I can play Slay the spire for an hour and it drops like 5%.
I don't see how a new Switch can beat this especially if it's built upon older technology.
I am not one of the people deluded into hoping Nintendo makes something more powerful this time... But if it's weaker than the steam deck that will simply be embarrassing. The steam deck will be over 3 years old by the time the switch 2 comes out next year.
If they released something weaker than 3 year old hardware then I feel like they are just setting themselves up for an even _bigger_ performance gap this generation than the switch 1 had.
Not to mention the ps5 pro will already be out too by the. And the new Xbox is supposedly in 2026, just the year after, assuming plans didn't change after the big leak. Sony would likely have ps6 soon after too. Switch 2 is gonna end up with zero third party support and be a flop because Nintendo never learns.
Is steam deck performance 2 years later really that impressive.
For the price? Yeah
@@christianr.5868 referb steam deck is 279rn and has way more functionality that a switch is ever going to have. And were talking about a switch that isnt on sale or even been announced
@@christianr.5868 And for it's max wattage too. I don't think there is more optimal hardware for a handheld at the moment.
I think so yes.
@@skycloud4802 I think the steam deck is great but the problem is by the time nintendo drops their console we are going to be down the road on new hardware
Switch 0.4 tflops, steamdeck 1.1 tflops, ally 3.1 tflops, series s 4 tflops. Those number on realtime gaming that push cpu&gpu
SD is 1.6 TFLOPs.
@@sselemaNrM lol thats on paper, on realtime only 1.1 when playing rdr2
A new console coming out in 2025 not being comparable to a Series S, an already underpowered console is absolutely insane. I'm hoping the docking mode provides a performance boost.
Whats insane is your inability to appreciate and accept that its different format means you need to manage your expectations in terms of its performance. The Switch 1 released with 360 level raw power but more modern architecture and has far more compelling and higher critically rated software than the PS5 or Series X using metacritic as a point of comparison. It's a hybrid. Adjust your expectations accordingly. You ain't gonna expect sports car performance from a Ford Fiesta but it has all the essential functionality to get you from A to B just the same.
The Series S is a home console. The Switch 2 will be a portable device you could probably fit into your pocket. You have to completely adjust your expectations. That being said, I expect DLSS and modern advancements to get close to the Series S.
I believe in terms of hardware power, the Switch 2 will be weaker than the Steam Deck, but in terms of hardware, if they play their cards right, it can exceed the Steam Deck
Why does everyone say it’s weaker than the steam deck? It has a 3 year edge and makes more profit off of game sales than the steam deck so can be sold for less. If it’s as advanced as the switch was back then, it will have series s power. If they go cheap, more like a ps4 pro.
More powerful than a steamdeck and as powerful as a series s is a very large range at this system power grid resolution.
I dont understand why you all keep trying to replace steamdeck with series s, over and over and over and jump through hoops to avoid answering the actual question.
This is literally ampere vs rdna 2. A 12 SM ampere vs. 4 wgp rdna2. We know ampere vs rdna 2. Chips and cheese did a very in depth breakdown on ampere vs rdna2
Rdna2 can deliver *most* of amperes performance with an equivalent class ampere on desktop, with much better efficiency, thanks to its l2+Infinity cache combo.... which... steamdeck doesnt have, amd used their node advantage to clock gpu's 2/3rds the size *twice as high* and keep the caches hitting at that speed with the infinity cache. That is a very specific performance target based on how 2 cu's (wgp) perform in relation to 1 sm. It does NOT scale well against wider architectures, when ampere has an even wider ratio more vextor lanes, with more schedulers, more registers, more active warps, more cache, rdna2 begins to lose big, in the ways upping clocks can't overcome Even WITH the Infinity cache, which steamdeck does not have.
And that's not even getting into the 24 sparse tensor tflops fp16 from the tensor cores, which steamdeck also doesn't have, or the massively more powerful rt hardware than desktop rdna2, which irrc steamdeck gutted from van gogh. Like you guys are trying to use that to hedge your bets because it seems like you are really not sure and are trying to get in front of the obvious without outright saying it, trying to hemm and haww about "custom made software" and "specialized hardware punching above its weight" but.... it doesn't even matter. Even without any of that, this isn't close.
The switch 2 isn't going to be punching up at steamdeck, it's going to be punching down. Even before the "special hardware".
Series s has nothing to do with this.
Unless you guys actually know something has changed from the lapsys attack and just dont want or can't say anything about it.