Knife Sharpening - Suehiro Debado 600 and 1500 grit
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- čas přidán 22. 03. 2024
- Knife Used - Reigetsu Nakiri 160mm
Steel Type - 4116 (Molybdenum Vanadium Blended)
Stones Used -
Suehiro Debado - 600 Grit
Suehiro Debado - 1500 Grit
DLT XL leather strop with Gunny Juice 1 and 0.5 micron diamond emulsion
Bess 'C' test based on 3 cut test averaged - 132g
I repeatedly call the 600 grit Debado an 800 grit. This was a mistake on my part. I will make a follow up video before I send these stones back, and give some final thoughts on them. Currently, I really like the 600. The 1500 grit, is nothing spectacular. - Jak na to + styl
Thanks for these reviews. As a sharpening enthusiast we really appreciate these. Your channel continues to be the best content on youtube for stone reviews. I look forward to watching this one properly when i get home tonight!
I appreciate that! I plan to do another video on these. My initial impressions may have changed a bit. I need to get another knife or two across them to get a better idea if what i am seeing is true or some chance of my own.
Enjoyed the video.
👊
nice work as always Jeff.
Thanks 👊
Jef really good video I’ve never used those stones before so thank you for the look at how much feedback and slurry they produce. You ended up with a nice crispy edge. Thanks for sharing brother it’s appreciated!!👊🏼
Thanks for checking it out 🤘
they're not common in the US and quite expensive. They come in several different sizes and form factors as well. they're also kinda confusing cuz the 600 is called 800 and the 1500 is called 2000. etc. They run between $40 to $80 in Japan but in the US sharpening supplies for instance which has a limited selection of them sells them for 2x as much, way too much imo. I like the lower grit ones in particular because some of them are green silicon carbide yet SNG. Rather than pay $100 at SharpeningSupplies, MTC kitchen has the big LD 200 for about $70 and I ordered one with a 30% discount for $50 with a bunch of other things last black Friday. I'd really like to try one of the 320, apparently there a few different versions in different colors, SS has the green looking one but I'm not interested at their price.
As to the issue of cutting off the edge, reference the third part of the somewhat recent series on S110V over at the Science of Sharp blog. It has micrograph images which show how the steel becomes damaged well behind the cutting edge. So there is a very valid reason for "de-stressing" the edge. However, this is only necessary when using Cliff Stamp's "plateau" method of sharpening where you sharpen without ever grinding to a burr. If you are grinding to a burr when sharpening the "de-stressing" process is most likely unnecessary as you will almost certainly be grinding away the damaged metal in the process of forming a burr.
Yea that’s pretty much what i thought. It’s why i mentioned it in the video.
@@Jef Yup. I was just confirming your suspicions there. Worst case you are grinding away more metal than necessary.
The 600 grit stone generally has an aggressive texture but I like it for that. Makes the edge nice and toothy and cuts fast. The only potential downside is it couldn’t be a little soft some people’s needs. I also have the 1500. It’s much harder. Great stone for straight razor bevel setting. The 3k and 6k are not my favorite for delicate work. Seems like mine at least aren’t very consistent. I prefer chosera, nanohone or resin bonded options for that kind of work. If you’re doing the edges of knives or chisels they work just fine. Hope you’re doing well Jef ❤ Great concise video as usual!
Yea that 600 is fast but friable. The 1500, almost too hard. Im going to do a follow up tonight or tomorrow so i can get these back to their owner. Ive had em a week now and have pretty well put em through the paces
Great video bro!!
Thanks 🙏
Enjoyable and informative video. I would like to see the video about the fishing line alternative to the test medium. I would think almost any minimum stretch non braided fishing line with the same diameter would do just fine. There is already plenty of fluctuation with the results using the original and if there is a force difference big enough to be measured, you can do the test for it and correct for the new medium.
I guess i need to get off my butt and go hunt the stuff down 😁
I have them. I enjoy them a lot. I need to use them more often. I imagine that i like yourself have far too many options in our storage.😅
Weirdly, they tend to have odd stained spots that appear on some grits. I believe it may be moisture penatraiting some more porus spots on each stone.
Yea lots to choose from 😁
Yea i get those on some other brands as well. Just something i noticed and commented on. Never felt any difference when riding across those areas
I have a lot of high end kitchen knives but I also have knives with the same 4116 German steel. Common cutlery steel for kitchen knives. Basically the bottom end of where nicer kitchen knives usually come with this steel. Honestly kitchen knives don't need much from steel. Is an extra maybe 15% of "performance" worth the price jump from $40 to $200+ and $350+ for really nice oncs? I mean, not really. I've got a 4116 kitchen knife, about the same cost and quality of the one you got there (I'm assuming that's a Tojiro Regetsu) that I've reground with a gentle convex primary bevel that's about .25 mm BTE, thinner where it counts than a lot of high end knives, and it will run circles around some knives that costs 10x as much. 4116 is a fine steel for a kitchen knives, stainless, easy to sharpen and it takes great fine edges. And that's the real issue with kitchen knives that perform well vs those that don't. it's not the steel so much as it is how it's made, the cutting geometry for one thing. There are gimmicky knives like Miyabis that cost as much $500 and they've got shit grinds and don't perform any better than a $40 victorionix. For instance I measured a $450 black series miyabi made from zdp-189 at .6 mm bte. Once that edge is gone, it it cant cut worth a shit. Well made kitchen knives move through ingredients better than that thing even without a secondary bevel on them at all. It's all in the geometry.
Tohiro reg yes. From chef knives to go. It’s became my go to knife, for one reason. Stainless steel. I don’t have to wipe it down every time i cut, no worries of getting that carbon steel taste, on my food. Esp acidic stuff like tomatoes. I love it, and as you said, what more do you need in kitchen knife steel?
Any chance you'll be able to sharpen some of your harder steels on these stones? Using a very soft steel like 4116, and especially on a freshly dressed stone like the 600, is not going to tell us all that much.
I’ve been using the 600 for several days now. It seems to sharpen most steels at a desirable speed. Doing zdp the cutting speed was slowed. I didnt get a satisfactory sharpness. The possibility maybe from the slurry that forms. My thinking is that slurry, is riding over my apex, rounding it out even more than my hand movements do. This causes the apex to be broader, and less sharp. Is that what’s really happening? I can’t say anything with certainty. I don’t have a decent scope to tell.
After zdp, ive tried benchmade s30v, whatever steel my bunka and gyuto knives are (aogami perhaps?), henkels on 4 different knives, and O2 from a custom maker. They all behaved the same. Speed was good. The longer i stay on the 600, the more slurry that developes, the less keeness i feel. Flushing it often helps. I plan to make another video before i return them, discussing all this. If there is anything in particular you’d like me to look into just let me know.
That 600 sounds and looks way courser than that 🤔 Suehiro does tend to kind of over rate their stones when it comes to grit IME, at least compared to other japanese stones. I've been wondering about these though. Good video
I plan to do another video before returning them. The 1500 in particular, ive found, doesnt cut well. It seems to burnish more than anything. Honestly think it maybe TOO hard
How would you compare the 1500 to the Shapton Pro 1500 for example? Or any other stones in that wierd little grit range around 1500. It sounds like you aren't a big fan and we have very similar preferences I've found, so I'll probably pass on that 1500. The 600 looks like it did work though, I'd be interested in that stone @Jef
The 1500 debado doesnt cut as fast as the shapton. It feels more like a ceramic to me (think spyderco). That glassy, skating, feel. I dont get that as much from the shapton. Its there but not like this. The shapton is leaps and bounds, better, imo.
Try resharpening on other stones to compare. Those stones were not impressive. It might be the steel in that knife. Have you looked at the edge under microscope?
You need to establish a baseline.
Ten or more tests on sharpness tester are waste of time unless you are testing multiple locations to evaluate your sharpening technique.Three to four is enough to eliminate anomolies of microchip in blade.
I have a spread sheet of every knife I’ve ever tested, what stones used, among a few other factors. I don’t get as deep as you mention, since i am just trying to give a general idea of sharpness for those who maybe watching. If you observe my videos often enough, you can start to see when one edge, is sharper than another.
I had my spreadsheet available to be viewed from my youtube page but it seems like it’s no longer there. I’ll have to look into that.
As for the multiple locations, i used to mark an area like shown in this video, but i realized the differences can vary, no matter how carefully i try to duplicate. The area of the apex that is measured, is so small, it’s a bit silly, to even attempt. I do believe that was why i quit doing this.
@@Jef Well you used a new knife that you had never sharpened before so that makes it difficult to compare apples to oranges. New knife and new stones at same time makes no baseline for comparison.
You should lap stones and test on a knife you already sharpened or sharpen new knife first on known stones before trying on new stones.
That coarse stone seemed too fryable. All that slurry means stone wears out too quickly. It produced more slurry than swarf.
Very true. I didnt even think of it that way. I’ve used so many stones it just becomes rotuine and assume they are going to behave in a certain fashion. Thanks for the insight 🤘 im sure ill be showing this knife on other stones in the future. It has became a favorite quickly.
Ive had about 15 knives across the 600 at this point and the slurry is most definitely an issue. Esp for zdp and 154cm, in particular. Both had slowed cutting speeds in comparison to my simpler kitchen knives, and the edges came out with less than ideal sharpeness. My thinking is the slurry as the culprit. Riding across the apex and rounding it