Knife Sharpening - Protech/Strider SnG - Naniwa Green Brick of Joy
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- čas přidán 15. 08. 2022
- Knife Used
Protech/Strider SnG
Steel Type
154cm
Stones Used
Shapton Glass - 500 grit
Naniwa Aotoshi Green Brick of Joy - 2000 grit
Shapton Glass - 8000 grit
Leather strop from Jessie Hout with white compound
John Barber
emericthered
/ emericthered
Jesse Hout
sharp_whits_01
/ sharp_whits_01
Awesome
I've stopped the vid to say this-I've noticed how the very heel often needs some special attention and of all the God knows how many sharpening vids I've seen this is the first to mention it. I recently heard another important insight, which is that yeah you want to lock your wrists and keep your angle consistent, and _that's why you lift your elbow to follow the belly into the tip._ It helps you keep the wrist locked and angle consistent. I've heard you and others talking about lifting the elbow but it's important to be clear what it does for you. I'm looking forward to seeing what this does for me in the future. I've been doing well with kitchen knives and thinner-stocked ones, but with thicker blade stock and deeper bellies I've had some problems. This all may address those.
I don't lock my wrist. Most who get the experience under their belt, do not either. It is a good tool for when you start out, but it is overinflated, just like consistency, imo. Glad this was of some help for you. I used to talk about that 'U' pattern in many of my old videos. At a certain point, it gets repetitive, and I quit discussing it. Shame, cause I forget often, how many new sharpeners, can end up here.
@@Jef Interesting. I've seen other examples, like in casting a fishing rod, of how good advice for beginners gives way to a more flexible, adaptive approach as you build experience. Maybe "locked" isn't the right word anyway, and it's more a case of concentrating more on your angle. BTW the other day I watched your hour-long one where you break down the whole process and it's great, but it might be helpful to do a series where you concentrate on different aspects and can include things pertaining to each that would be too much detail in something less specialized. Or maybe make a list of all the things more advanced sharpeners do that beginners aren't ready for and journeyman haven't discovered yet. The whole game is to spare us all having to discover things by trial and error over months and months, because we have enough problems as it is. 😄
Yea i really need to redo my sharpening turorial. When i began i was thinking thirty min, and ill cover everything. Once i started talking, i realized there is ALOT to go over. Heh. I’m not the most loquacious teacher, so things get repeated often. One day I’ll get around to it
Hey Jef 👍👍, thanks for this video , and for your opinion about the naniwa, I learned every times with all your video's, so cool.
No doubt, you are a very good teacher for sharpening blades, and I embrace your interest for the good stones.
I can watch one of your video many times, to see step by step, every movement I must do to become a good sharpener.
Thanks Jef for all you give to all passionate.
All the best to you and your cercle, from french country, froster ,👍👍
Thank you for the kind words, and taking the time to watch my videos! 🙏
Jef thanks for the video and thanks for always sharing the knowledge brother it’s appreciated !!!👊
Thanks for checking it out 👊
I’ll take 114 everyday great work .
👊
Wow, what perfect timing! I recently purchased the Naniwa 800 to give it a try on my kitchen knives, and I really, REALLY loved it. Was looking at picking up the green brick as well, I think the 800 has the most consistent grit pattern I've ever felt in a stone, and it left a very smooth edge. Am also considering the gritomatic set since my main carry is a pm2 in maxamet, and my diamond stones are pretty toast. I bought the full set of gritomatic stones a little over a year ago, but returned them because I wanted to go with diamond instead. They've done well, but the way they wear leaves very little abrasive around the border of the stone. I'm not a huge fan of soak stones, but I may give the gritomatics a try this time around.
Right on 👌
Gritomatic don’t need a long soak. 5 min is usually enough.
I'm really surprised you returned the Gritomatics, they're excellent stones.
My only complaint is that I didn't order two sets.
I am going too put Cashew Lacquer😊 on my green brick.
It is a challenge to find the real stuff. What i use is from earthpaint mountain xt clear 00
www.earthpaint.net/cashew-resin-wood-finish.html
Your description of the "U" pattern going from the heel to the tip in this video is the best explanation of how to get a consistent angle all along the edge that I've run across so far. Especially the part about right at the heel. I hadn't thought about that, even though it's also a problem area for me. I still struggle right at the tip, but getting better.
Interesting you've had a cracking issue with the Naniwa pros. I know they are supposed to be the new version of the Naniwa Choseras'. I have the Chosera 800 and 3000 and they are two of my favorite stones. Never had any issues with them. Makes me wonder about the pro version if it really is the same stones. I tried the Naniwa Super Stones, and I'm not a fan of them at all. Supposed to be splash and go, but constantly soak up water and load up very fast. I even tried soaking them with the same results. Not the best, IMHO.
The only Naniwa I currently own, the 1k Pro, did the exact same thing to me. I know how to care for magnesia bonded stones and it didn't matter. I would absolute love to try both of the stones you just mentioned but I would kick myself if I had any problems. If I could do it over again I would buy the 800 in place of the 1k because as I'm sure you know Naniwa abrasives seem to be finer than their stated grit and the 1k is more like a 1.5k. It's an excellent stone...if it was durable. Alas, it's not 😕
@@AnarchAngel1 Yup! My 1k-10k all developed cracks. The 5k just fell to pieces. I replaced it, and the new one did the same thing. I babied those stones, and knew all the tricks about drying them. The biggest gripe, is how little Naniwa cares. They don't even want to hear the feedback consumers have on these products. Their automatic reply is, contact your dealer. I didn't take that answer, and kept hammering, to no avail. They were my favorite brand. After that, I haven't purchased anything with their name on it.
@Don's Woodies
Glad the description I provided may be of some help. Let me know if you give it a shot, and the results you get! It works on recurved edges as well.
I've heard mixed results on the Super Stones. One buddy told me that they warp. He sent me photos of his. Like myself, he is quite experienced with stones, and knows how to care for them. Yet they still exhibit this issue. Naniwa makes fantastic abrasives. They just need to get the delivery system sorted out. Perhaps the versions that are backed with bases, are the only way, to truly go. You are not the first person to tell me the Chosera models have not cracked, like the Pro models.
@@AnarchAngel1 I've had the Chosera 800 and 3000 for about a year now with no problems. Recently I removed them from the plastic bases they came on. hopefully that doesn't turn out to be a mistake. They are just a joy to use and require very little flattening, as they stay flat a long time. I use them for sharpening knives and my chisels and plane blades and they work equally well for both uses. You mention wishing for the 800 instead of the iK. I had heard that mentioned a few times, that the 800 is a better stone in general and that's why I went with it initially.
@@Jef I will let you know when I try your suggestions. Really sad to hear about Naniwa's customer service. For my money, other than actual performance customer service is what really defines a company. Sucks to hear they are like that. Since I haven't had any problems with them I can't speak to their service, at least for myself.
The Super Stones are kind of weird. I know (or think I do) that they are resin bonded so maybe that is the issue with them. They just have a strange soft rubbery feel to them, even when just rubbing your hand over them. Hard to describe, but unmistakable 'in person."
I just found your video from a few years back on Pride Abrasives. Very interesting. They are one of the stones I use in a sharpening class I teach at the local Woodcraft near me. Now, I am no sharpening expert but I know enough to help people learn some good technique and it's a bit of fun for an old retired guy. Most people I've run into really don't know what sharp is. (and a few years back, neither did I. Anyway, I mention Pride Abrasives because a few months ago I called them to ask about how long I could leave them soaking without hurting the stones in case I wanted to use then a few days in a row. . I think it was the owner I talked to and he told me he has had his soaking continuously for 18 months at that time, just changing the water to keep it clean.
Good video mate. Should thin it out oneday hehe the green brick polishes a dang good bit. Its more 4k than 2k by far. It wouldnt do anything to my 64 hrc magnacut though. It will probably last a lifetime. I love it on cheaper stainless blades or on carbon knives too its a dream how the edge feels at least for me.
I've heard this from a lot of people, that it's the magic bullet for softer stainless and carbon but not great on high carbide/very hard steels. I'm guessing it uses aluminum oxide as an abrasive. I actually just ordered one after years of debating it, it seems like it has a multitude of uses
@@AnarchAngel1 yes sir
I've heard that as well. High carbide stuff isn't the best fit, but softer stainless, like victorinox, really benefit. I plan to test this all out myself of course :D
@@Jef yes sir looking forward to it.
@@Jef Yeah the hype seems to be real if you haven't gotten around to trying it, it puts an excellent edge (like push cutting coffee filters excellent) on your average western stainless steel kitchen knives and it does it relatively quickly for how fine and smooth it feels. I've had it for like a week and I can safely say it's gonna get a lot of use in that area since that's most of what people bring me. I wanna try it on some of my carbon Japanese knives but they're all stupid sharp at the moment so that's gonna have to wait. As much of a Naniwa hater I am I have to give that stone the praise it deserves 😅 Harder than I expected too 🤔 I haven't been soaking it more than like a minute though. It's also not as porous and thirsty as I was led to believe. It's pretty much a splash and go, holds water on the surface really well
Raise your elbow if you wanna keep the bevel the same width.
Not raising your elbow and flowing all the way through will maintain
an angle just like a guided system. I usually don't like steeper angles
on the tips so I hold and maintain my angle. Just depends on what
you want.
Hey Jeff, can I send you a new stone for a video review?
Sharpening supplies has this stone called "The Grinders
Stone." It's a 12x3 stone that claims to be 80 grit. On sale
for $35.99 US. Just an idea for a video, which BTW, I
scoured You Tube for a review and not a single one.
It's a beast and your the man to give it a trusty review.
I have one on order. Thanks for the heads up. Will make a video once i get it 🤘
@@Jef Swell. And a heads up for you.
I already have one. I want to see if a master such as yourself matches my opinion. Looking very forward to your review
of this beast.
Not raising my elbow enough was one of the first mistakes I made when I started freehand sharpening. It will also cause you to slowly remove more material from the belly of the blade than the rest of it. That's another reason the "U" pattern Jef talks about is important. If you don't do that you end up with a sharp belly but the heel and the tip don't get enough attention. Unless you're one of those guys that sharpen entirely in "sections" which can create its own problems. I tend to use both, I'll work on sections if needed but I always make sure to smooth everything out with full strokes as I'm leaving the stone
Nice work as always man. The issues you had with Naniwa, was that the old choseras or the newer pro's that replaced the choseras?
The newer versions that replaced the chosera. 1k - 10k. They all developed spider web cracks that eventually went deeper
Lol you sound exactly like me 😆 I too boycotted Naniwa specifically because of the 1k Pro I allowed myself to buy started cracking after a half dozen uses. I was aware that was a possibility and babied that stone in any way I could but it cracked anyway 🤷♂️ Obviously I'm not the only experienced sharpener that's had that happen. It's a shame because I really like using those stones, I just can't justify the price for something I'm afraid to really use a lot. Strange coincidence though, after years of thinking about it I finally bought the Green Brick...literally last night, breaking my boycotting vow. Usually I avoid soft stones but it seems like the Green Brick has some unique attributes. What is your opinion on the Shapton Glass 8k vs the Pro 8k? Does it have the same "rubby" feel? I love the 8k Pro for the edges it produces but I've never been a huge fan of the way it feels, sort of "soulless" to steal an adjective from you
Yea the glass and pro (particularly 5k-30k) shaptons def have issues, in terms of soul. I can not describe what they lack any better than that. They feel like ceramics, or glass, and the feedback isn't the best. Well, until you get used to them. I can really dial in on my Shap Pros now, from the feedback, but I recall when I started, I thought they were lacking.
My 1k-10k Naniwa Pro, all developed cracks. I babied them as well. Such a shame, bc like you said, they make a fantastic sharpening abrasive. It is possible to lap the cracks out. I found I had to take down several mm of stone to get to good surface. Now, if I use them, I have to lap them after each session. Otherwise, they reappear.
The 8k glass does not have that same porous rubbery feel the Pro does. I think the polish they both produce is on par with each other. Of course the glass feel a tad harder. Feedback is better, but when it starts to glaze, as you ride the edge across, you feel every line of swarf, as bumps on the surface. That can be disconcerting, and throw your angle off. Just flip it around or quickly clean it, as it starts to develop, and the problem isn't too bad. I don't notice this as much on my Pro stone, although it too loads quickly.
@@Jef I have a few of the Shapton stones, both pro and glass. My favorites are the glass 500 and the pro 1500 for different reasons of course. The 500 is great at reprofiling an edge and has a nice feel to it. The pro 1500 is just good at almost everything unless you need to do serious correcting of an edge. I'll usually follow it up with the pro 5000 and stop there for knives, but go on to the 8000 or 12000 pro for woodworking tools. Since you mention cracking (with the Naniwas), the only stone I have had any cracking issues with is the Shapton pro 12K. They seem to be only surface cracks because it hasn't shown any signs of falling apart or warping after 3 years or so of use.
I also have found the "lack of soul" you describe with a couple of the Shaptons. Mostly just the pro 8000 and the glass 16000. I think I need more time on the glass 16K, because It is probably something I haven't caught onto with it yet. We shall see as time passes.
Really loving your videos. Glad I found your channel. Viewer for life here.
@@Jef OK thanks for the feedback. I've gotten pretty used to the soulless feel of the Shapton finishers. They produce very crisp, clean edges once you get dialed in with them though. The Pro line has become my default, go-to line especially for folders and my super thin double bevel Japanese kitchen knives. The 2k is by far my favorite stone in the line.
Are you gonna be playing around with the Green Brick in any videos in the future? I just got mine and I understand why people like it, it grabs old scratches and just erases them 😅 I also got the Arashiyama 1k in and I'm not sure if you've used it but wow, it's an excellent stone. I have a lot of 1000 grit stones (I think we all do 😁) and it's pretty clear to me it will be my favorite. It's a true 1k and is quite hard but releases the perfect amount of abrasive for my liking. I can't believe it's been right under my nose for years and I'm just now discovering how good it is. It's not the fastest 1k I've ever used but it's not slow either.
Also I seem to recall having a short discussion with you a few years back about the Imanishi Latte 400 and how our stones were behaving very differently, yours seemed very hard and was loading and mine seemed a little softer (it's still a hard stone) and released abrasive a bit more readily. Are you still using yours here and there? If so has its behavior changed? I feel like that stone has a very thick layer that needs to be removed to get a true feeling for the stone, like several millimeters. I use mine all the time, it's one of my workhorse low grit stones for minor repair and bevel setting. Was just wondering if you experienced the same "calming down" once you got into the heart of the stone a little more. I've used mine so much I'm looking to replace it, that's why I'm curious. Sorry for the paragraph 😅
@@DonsWoodies It would be a little redundant, but if you like the 1500 you should try the 2k sometime. It's the best stone in the line IMO and other's as well. It cuts super fast and leaves a very crisp, "sticky sharp" apex that's perfect for so many things. It wears super slowly and it's just a really dense stone with excellent feedback for a Shapton. It does everything the 1500 does just a little better. For the price you can get them for right now ($38 on Amazon for the Ha No Kuromaku) there's no other stone in that range that beats it. One of the few stones I bought 2 of just because I never want to be without it 😅
@@AnarchAngel1 Yes I contacted the owner of the green brick, and let him know, I will be hanging onto it a little longer. I want to get at least a few more videos using it. Once soaked, and on high carbide steels. I didn't plan to keep it as long as I have, but my free time has been severely limited recently. Work has taken a large part of it, along with some NCTI courses I am finishing.
Yes I still have the Latte. When I moved into Connie's place, I didn't expect it to be a full time residence. Figured we would get here, save up for a year, and move out into our own place. That hasn't happened, although I have left most of my stuff packed up. It all remains in the guest room, boxed away. 80% of my stones are in there still, including the latte. If I ever get a need to retrieve it I will, but I left out the most used and valuable stones, so I would never need to go rummaging through that stuff. Which is why I am always using Shapton, SIC, or Venev, these days.
I am familiar with the Arashiyama 1k but have never used it. It always looked too muddy and soft for my tastes. MrEdgy (my main sharpening inspiration) used it often. Perhaps one day I will get around to it, but I prefer stones that have a full line. Not just one or two single grits.
👍
Cheers!
Did you get to test it soaked?
Any difference?
It was soaked in this video and the shark. No difference i could tell
@@Jef thanks
What microscope are you using
I have several. The main one i have been using recently is the proscope hr. They all have limitations and this one is no exception. I find trying to focus on the edge can be a real challenge. Most usb scopes are pretty similar in performance. So don’t waste a ton of money on them without doing some research first. I haven’t found one yet, that has knocked my socks off.
I ordered the Shapton glass stones a few days ago 🥲
I didn't know what to get. I didn't want to mess with wetstones so I went with splash and go.
Venev is sold out and everything else, diamond or CBN is much more expensive.
Sharpening stones I recommend
czcams.com/video/fcprUHO4Zgs/video.html
I prefer shapton pro