Discussing No Time To Die #2 - The Story
Vložit
- čas přidán 6. 08. 2024
- haphazardstuff.com
Jeroen (aka @DutchBondFan) and I continue our discussion about No Time To Die. Episode 2 we talk about the story, the loose ends that needed to tied up in the film, Safin's plan, nanobots and Madeleine's big secret.
0:00 - Introduction
03:41 - The Loose Ends
08:39 - Safin's Plan
18:55 - Nanobots
21:19 - Madeleine's Secret
#jamesbond #notimetodie - Zábava
SPECTRE/Quantum went from "we have people everywhere" to "we have enough people to fill up a big ballroom."
lol, well the board would likely fit into the ballroom. I got the impression that Safin started assimilating the rest after the proverbial head was cut off.
Well, it probably just means that board of people from the Spectre board meeting room that call the shots
@@jimgreen7477 I wish they'd brought back some of the Quantum guys from QoS for those scenes, if only for continuity. It was nice to see Vogel again, though.
But when they kill the people who actually pay the hired help, not much SPECTRE employees can do except look for other jobs. :-)
Madeline was already pregnant in Matera. The opening scene of her childhood is a memory she reflects on while in the water - because she’s grappling with the notion of having a baby whose father is an assassin.
Her desperation for Bond to do something in the DB5 when they’re getting shot at is presumably informed by her being pregnant with their child.
She holds her stomach as she stands on the train, tearfully staring at Bond before it takes off.
I didn’t connect any of these threads until days after first viewing, when I was finally able to think about something other than the ending lol.
Great comment.
Very perceptive and intelligent insight. And modest of you too, to say how it only came to you on reflection. I didn't notice that myself and I've seen it twice :)
While likely not an intentional homage, I liked how Craig, in the climatic sequence, dressed like Jaws in Moonraker.
Hazards on point with the biggest problem with NTTD, it's a Daniel Craig movie rather than James Bond. No star should be more important to the main character. Result is a depressing narrative mess and then the ending, it should of been a Sherlock Holmes/Moriarty style mysterious ending but with Bond against Blofeld. I'll never forgive them with the ending.
You could have had Bond live and still had a "tragic" ending. In the final scene, we have Bond's funeral. Madeline, the kid and the Scooby Gang are all there. They disperse. Then the camera pulls back and we see Bond, observing. He knows he can't get any closer than this. And he walks off.
God, that it genius.
Who predicted it all Bill!! 😂😂😂
Your idea would work but it's a bit cliche. And surely the EMP watch would destroy the nanno bots!!
That would never work. If Bond were ever to make it off that island, Madeleine and Mathilde would still be in danger in the sense that if Bond were to ever touch anyone at all or a group of people, he'd transmit the nanobots and through happenstance or sheer bad luck, they could come in contact with his woman and daughter, down the road. The risk is just too high. He HAD to die. It only made sense for it to end that way.
Why did they focus on that glass after the toast for bond in m's office and it showed someone clinking it it was a bit weird
@@JamesWho1 I think it was meant to be a vodka martini, Bond's signature drink. A way for him to be there by proxy, as it were.
This will be an enjoyable discussion of “Madeliene Swann: The Movie”
Appropriately, there was a No Time to Die ad when I called up this video.
I have a feeling Graig & EON saw Avengers: Endgame and Iron Man having being a dad and sacrificing himself to save everyone gave them ideas fot NTTD. Both movies also start with a 5 year time skip and shockingly kill the villain of the preivous movie. Oh, and nanotechnology.
Or it's just that francise blockusters are out of ideas.
Yeah, nanontechnology. That will get the predictive programming crowd out in force.
And Logan, and all other superheroes with daughters before they died...not particularly original in a recent movie.
Didn't filming already start when Endgame finally came out?
@@bubblegonzalezEndgame came out April 2019, according to the director he was still writing within the filming of No Time to Die after he was hired in Sept 2018. Logan may have had a greater influence on Craig's decision but it is an interesting coincidence, if it is one, with Endgame
"How does Blofeld know Madeleine had a baby?" She's literally his therapist.
He's also Blofeld. He will have people watching her, following her home, etc.
People seem to want everything in this film spoon-fed to them while also complaining that it's too on the nose. People complain that Blofeld and Spectre are too easily destroyed, but then can't figure out how Blofeld calls Madeleine from prison.
Any chance in a Dutchbondfan & Haphazardstuff "No time to die" watchalong, when the movie comes out on physical media?
The nanobots thing definitely felt like a rewrite; although you do have a precursor in the smart blood thing. Everything about Heracles seems biological; it replicates, spreads and the growth silo in the Poison Garden is even described as a “farm”. I’m guessing they were freaking out in 2020, making some urgent edits in post.
Regarding Safin: no, he wasn’t a member of SPECTRE, but his family supplied poisons to them. Blofeld had them killed and acquired their island. He’s an independent operator. Valdo worked purely for Safin; they’re both Russian, possibly a link there. Primo (cyclops) was SPECTRE until the board was destroyed; then Safin approached him (via Ash) with an offer, which he accepted.
I could also totally see Roger slicing apples with a raised eyebrow, kinda like how he tucks Stacy into bed in AVtaK. A little avuncular moment. Honestly, I’m kinda glad to see them addressing his age at last; this works pretty well. It probably depends on who is watching it; if you're a middle-aged dad you'll probably appreciate these parts more. I think the majority of the problems essentially lie with Spectre being a terrible set-up for this film. Its a competent patch-up job, but its going to be haunted by the damp squib before it.
regarding that Nanobot rewite thing: i just got the new James Bond Archives book by Paul Duncan, which suffered from the delays: it still lists No Time To Die's release date as 2020, and while i can't confirm it right now, i swear i read the word "Virus" a couple of times while looking through the pages. They definitely changed that aspect.
@@qualityautismNoah Very interesting. I'd be interested to hear more if you're ever willing to share info. It would certainly be an understandable thing for them to change.
The thing Madeline needs to tell Bond in the car is that she is pregnant. That is why when he puts her on the train she touches her stomach.
At last, you guys are the only people to truly ask the questions about this film. Everything was spot on. I find that most people in the Bond community (especially those on CZcams) are too afraid to truly talk about what a complete mess of a film NTTD is. Thank you and long may this level of courage and true Bond insight continue!
I'm not sure if people are afraid or that they're more focussed on the ending than the specific storyline that preceded it.
@@davidfriend4328
I can forgive a somewhat incoherent plot as long as the movie is fun.
The first MINUTE of this video hooked me in. Great content as always
How did Blofeld find about Madeleine and Bond’s child? A mid wife passed the information to Spectre… Or Blofeld’s robotic eye was at the labour and he was her birth partner… they do have people everywhere😆
How do we know Madeline didn’t mention it during their therapy sessions?
@@alfredvalrie5541 Even Nomi didn’t know. I’m guessing her ‘secret’ was simply “she knows the person who is messing with us.” The ambiguity is just to mess with the audience.
Wasn't Blofeld just trying to manipulate Bond with that statement about her 'secret'? As in trying to destroy Bond's possible chance at happiness with her. After framing her for the attempt on Bond's life, it's just part of Blofeld's on-going plan to be the cause of all Bond's personal pain. Unless Craig was still under some kind of contract extension, I doubt there was any way the producers could have got him back without having Bond unambiguously killed off.
Hey John now that the Daniel Craig era has come to an end do you think it would have been better if EON did standalone Bond flims after Skyfall where Craig Bond goes on missons for MI6 as the classic Bond superhero and battles the Quantum Organization with Casino and Solace being the only flims connected much like the early Connery flims where apart from Goldfinger they are standalones but Spectre featured in it constantly.
The early Connery films weren't quite standalones... there are linkages, but they shot the books out of order so it's all a bit lost. You're right though, you could watch any of the old Bond films as standalones although one or two characters like Jaws return.
I was thinking ''Ash'' (Felix College) be the father, in first place with in mind we can't trust Madeline but later it turn out Ash knowns where she and kid lived. That can have been another explain too why Blofeld knowns, besides the fact Madeline be Blofeld doctor. With ''Death'' Blofeld means ''death in Bond his head'', just mind game.
Blofeld was right...
Her secret was the death of bond. He dies saving them.
When Madeleine burned the piece of paper, I thought it said, “L’homme marque”, which would be a “marked man”, rather than “L’homme masque”, which would be “masked man”. I need to watch it again and pause it to be able to reach the handwriting. It was too early in the story for her to burn the piece of paper for the same reason Bond burned his. Bond was releasing what he had been holding onto, mentally, but I’m not sure of Madeleine’s reason.
"Her secret will be the death of you" proceeds not to give a shit........................if anything is happy about it
Funny you say that Barbara is in love with Craig as a friend of mine has always said that!
After Spectre is killed Logan ash recruits cyclops. You see it when Q hacks into Blofelds eye
I'm assuming this means that Primo was transmitting his betrayal to Blofeld for giggles. Wish it had come up in the Bond/Blofeld dialogue - watching all your subordinates jumping ship, not afraid of you anymore etc.
@@andrewkingham Yea that was kinda weird. It came after Blofelds death… so why was Primo still transmitting info to that device?
At Vesper's grave the bomb goes off in Bond's face, spewing large granite chunks, yet Bond is OK and his hearing is fine, so he gets on his cell phone right away, no ill effects from the enormous explosion, he jumps up and runs off.....those who make these movies should do some research into how bombs work.
madeline was a roald dahl reference i feel like, alot of references outside of bond, which should be done more im a fan of that, i also think jamica house of bond has some easter eggs as well, like the books at his desk and all that, should bond have stayed in the fleming villa instead of goldeneye, that would have been a treat, and kind of cool, also instead of bionic eye which could be a nod to six million dollar man, a universal property, but i would have prefered calling it goldeye, or goldeneye, because since this is a reboot, you can reference the other films, also waltz was in the fleming biopic of the same name, so it has double meaning, yeah i just dont picture bond having a kid or dying in the movies, maybe dying, but not the kid, but they wanted to be a sign of the times, bond was always that sign of times and trends like CR was trying to talk about post 9/11 as well as poker which was big back then, quantum talked about bolivia crisis that was a real thing back then, and oil, skyfall talked about the danger of cyber security that happened back then, alot of hackers and i forgot but roaul silva was bassed on something, and spectre, was tyring to be john wick, i dont know what the trend or plot would be there, i guess some films are like that, TLD talked about the opium afghan crisis, which came back, so that was crazy, LTK talked about the drug crisis or epidemic of the 80s, also miami vice a big show back then, the trend here, is that no time to die, or i guess the basis of a real life virus that fleming predicted in his books, i think they wanted to make it so fleming, a one and done, but doesnt quite work, but it was in the books, every argument says that, when people are dying from this type of virus season 3 of 24, thank god it wasnt that people needed to kill of bond, and know that fleming warned us it was bound to happen, i mean we get it in the first movie dr no, if the virus like in that movie, radiation type thing similar was deadly bond would have not survived, the movie would have not been going, so in terms of the time we lived in, where there was alot of casualtites and theories, about who put this virus out there, like brosnan says this pandemic is quite bond, or fleming, i mean a biochemical agent named corona, come one, a real life scientist was a fleming fan, so they decided to go back to the OHMSS novel where that thing was a thing, but do a reverese, but i wish they used the casino roayle theme instead of majesities let that be the new majesties, it was fan fare, but maybe people are in their death beds, and was asking cory and barbra or EOn, if they could watch the new bond movie before they go, to satisfy them, why doesnt bond marry and has a baby, be okay with what life he lived, the love of his life, but who knows, still not the best movie it like DAD in that they tried something new break from formula, but this went to far, it didnt feel bond but a non bond craig action movie with like one of those brosnan movies that no one knows about bruce willis esque, but i wish casino and skyfall were seperate, and spectre was part of qauntum of no time to die, might make spectre better, but i just want to know what the other bond actors thought about this, im not that fond of craig as an actor, to be honest will i see his other non bond work, maybe knives out, and other essemble movies that interest me that he is part of, but still my favorite bond is brosnan, also the craig serie felt to 24 tv show in that everything soap opera that started from the TWINE movie, but everything is interconnected like the show, but man season 3 of that show was great, the whole show is great, my top spy show for sure, but anyways, should have not been done, im okay with bond dying just like real life, or the pandemic we lived, which felt bond in the real world, and i like aspects of the film like dad, but i wish we didnt get those aspects since it was in the books, that people didnt like at the time, also bond in the movie still wants to have sex like majestites with the woman even after meet sedoux, so hes just another connery, i dont know i feel chuck vibes when he was meeting his kid, but it was weird, everyone was waiting for this movie, what was the point, at least i can watch that db5 scene alot of 007 youtube channel once it comes out or that opening scene. i loved the wallace and grombit nod since i was a big fan of that series they should do more.. yeah the whole craig arch connected marvel univerese type thing, i f you go with dark knight go with that, you cant have both ways, but sorry for the long message fuck me dont care, read this shit, 50/50, also i wish universal brought mgm since i feel like from the content i watch from them, they are big bond fans, with six million dillar man, knight rider, fast and furious films, jason bourne which inspired craig run of films, they all have bond nods, and it would have been cool to see, but cant breathe right now proabably have covid.
Awwwyeah boi!!
The two most confusing things for me on first viewing was that 1: Safin was working with the Obruchev in the opening and Spectre didn't know that. 2: Once Spectre are assassinated it's Logan Ash that hires Primo into Safin's organisation.
Are we to take it that Logan Ash was working for Safin all along, then?
@@davidfriend4328yes he was with safin the whole time
Seems to be a popular misunderstanding that Fleming gave Bond a child in YOLT, he didn't. Kissy falls pregnant to Bond, doesn't tell him (contemplates it), Bond leaves without knowing if she even ended up having the child. It was subsequent writers who determined Kissy had a son, James - NOT Fleming who never mentions any child of Bond beyond Kissy's pregnancy (e.g. TMWTGG). So Mathilde has no Fleming precedent, despite claims to the contrary. Now it seems Mathilde was planned for her own spin-off with Phoebe Waller-Bridges asked in 2020 to write towards such a spin-off. No Time to Die broke new ground however Craig himself does have a young daughter, maybe that's the true basis for Bond having a daughter, not Fleming.
I think when Daniel Craig started to complain about continuing to play Bond they MGM and Barbara Brocolli should have gone ahead and gotten a story together so they could have replaced him. The film that they put out was a hodgepodge and not very well thought out. The whole concept of a movie is that it has a complete story told with a beginning a storyline a middle, a climax and an ending. This film was a mess….
@HaphazardStuff what is the name of the intro song
Where's the first episode of this discussion?
One of my main problems with the story: who are the winners here?
-Leiter dies, unceremoniously
-M's weapons program goes wrong and he's a boozing klutz
-Nomi is humbled
-Madeleine and Mathilde lose James
-Bond's friends (Q, Moneypenny) lose him, listening over a bad radio feed, and can't give him a funeral
-Bond dies knowing he could never touch the people he loves ever again, having accidentally killed Blofeld on Safin's behalf, having seen Spectre destroyed by someone else
Safins family was the poison makers for Spectre
Will they be a 3rd part?
Friday on Jeroen’s channel.
The story has a few holes in it but that can be said of more than one Bond film. Part of it is because they were making up as they went along this "arc." Secondly, and this goes to your comments about M, because M is played by Ralph Fiennes (well respected A List actor) they have to give him more to do. I'm not knocking the acting skills of Lee and Brown, but they were traditional supporting actors. When you have to give M more involvement, the story will get complicated. And, like Spectre, they try to do too much which just adds to the confusion.
As for Madeline's secret, I can't figure out why Blofeld would say it will be the death of Bond unless Blofeld can predict the future and know that Bond will die to save Madeline and his daughter. I wasn't bothered by the plot twist of Bond having a kid. The writers were taking a lot from the YOLT novel.
As for the ending, I commented on the first video that it was contrived. Because they were trying to do too much, I think they got to a point when they said, "Oh shit this is long. We got to get to the end we want." And a contrived ending was the result.
Guys. Swann was already pregnant! That was her secret in the PTS. She grabbed her stomach just as the train door closed.
You guys are judging this on the movies. But not giving anything to the books. Whether you agree with Craig's Bond or not you can't deny alot of what you don't like is how Bond behaves in the books. Your comparison should be with book Bond not movie Bond
I am the grandfather of your kid James.
Good discussion. About your point on ending the Craig Bond story with Spectre, I'm glad it didn't because Spectre was terrible.
It's "Matilde" not Matilda
Actually, it would be Mathilde, since she’s French.
You guys just don't get it. You continue to compare today's Bond with Sean Connery's character asking what would he do or how would he react. What you fail to understand is that the franchise must evolve if it is to survive. It can't be sustained if it caters to fans like you who are stuck in the 60's expecting to see Bond sipping martinis and hanging out in casinos in every film. The times are a changing, either you get on board or your get left behind.
Madeleine's secret is that she had Bond's child. Seriously?
You boys overthink things. These are not documentaries. Relax and enjoy.
"What's the big deal about telling Bond "we have a daughter together"?" Really? I really respect you both, but this conversation is weird. So many details are missed from the film or wrong, and some very odd conclusions.
SPOILER....why Bond is a bad parent.
A raw apple with skin contains up to 332% more vitamin K, 142% more vitamin A, 115% more vitamin C, 20% more calcium and up to 19% more potassium than a peeled apple.
John you're not seeing the film on its own merits.
It's a different stand alone arch and the daughter makes total sense and anchors the film as it anchors the emotional core of the key characters.
And they handled it all with great acting so it wasn't just some cutesie annoying Hollywood kid with a bowl haircut saying "mommyyyy"!
Guys, get over the past, it's a different storyline and it's beautiful.
You both seem tired in this video.
Who wouldn't after NTTD