The Problem with INVINCIBLE'S R*PE Scene
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- čas přidán 23. 07. 2024
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Ep 217 | The boys are joined by@BlerdWithoutFear to discuss season 2 part 2 of Invincible (spoilers obviously)
some comic spoilers around Anissa & Mark
0:00 Preview
3:43 dumb hero names
6:31 Invincible vs the Avengers
10:21 Could you actually date a superhero or would you end it like Amber?
18:48 Giant women
21:19 The Guardians are trash
25:23 Is it a red flag if they say i love you first
33:01 The Problem with INVINCIBLE'S R*PE Scene
Catch Ernie @BlerdWithoutFear - Komedie
Eddie's breakdown was pretty spot on. The fact that the first thing that comes to mind during a conversation around male SA is how attractive the rapist is and how they wished it was them is kinda crazy. And it was also my first thought! so it calls into question a lot of things. Cause i dont think it would have happened if the victim was a women. Or if mark was SA'd by a man. The convo would have absolutly been different.
Like I do wonder if this is a guy thing or if women have these kinda convos 2 but more lowkey. Cause it is a popular sentement among guys and even in media/news media.
Its kinda like conflating sex with rape in a way.
Women have similar conversations, yeah. You can even say that, sometimes, we're worse about it.
@@vividao4123 I think of the phrase "I'd let Chris Brown xyz" from all kinds of people.
Women getting SAd by attractive men is one of the most popular forms of porn for women.
@@kayjay3434 ngl I forgot about Breezy lol. yeah, you ain't wrong.
I think that works better when is not a sexy as fuck cartoon character. I don't treat it the same as real women who ain't Anissa.
@37:33 This is what a lot of activists have said in recent years. This is where intentional language becomes very important. For example, talking about a gang rape devolves into thoughts about “trains” being ran. Porn plays a large role in how average people perceive certain situations, and consequently how victims of SA can comfortably disclose/portray traumatic events. It’s unfortunate and weird.
I hate the idea of blaming porn for people’s lack of empathy. Sex workers and the porn world is already under scrutiny for all the wrong ways by people who are just horrible rather it exist or not.
@@nerdfantasyxox I definitely understand your concerns. But I think this means that we need to carefully distinguish the porn industry from sex workers in order to avoid inviting moral panic.
@@LoneWulf278 sex workers find a lot of autonomy within the porn world though. The people doing the moral panicking do not have anyone’s best interest in mind and are only looking to control and abuse vulnerable people. Things going on with pornhub amongst other things has literally endangered more people into risky conditions rather than helped and no one is listening bc they simply do not care.
@@nerdfantasyxox If you have the time, would you mind elaborating? I’d like to know more about that.
What if women like having multiple men at once, would the term train still be applicable, cause that’s a thing
The fact that nobody talks about how Mark heals from the scene tells you all you need to know about the weirdos who keep bringing it up.
Facts
Then evidently one needs to make exceptions concerning instances of transgressions.
I think all 3 guys here really summed up my thoughts on the whole Anissa thing. In a perfect world, or rather an imperfect world where I trust people to have serious conversations, I'm in the camp on wanting them to do the scene. I don't "want" to see it, in fact I assume it could, would, and should be nothing short of horrifying and uncomfortable and mentally traumatizing for Mark and the audience, but I do think we don't take male gr@pe seriously and we don't have near enough serious discussions about gr@pe, gr@pe victims, and especially male victims of gr@pe in society, and I think there could be value in opening the dialogue there. On the other hand, I see how the comics readers are behaving and how people talk about Anissa, like there's this squeamishness and unwillingness to talk in plain words about what happens (Gr@pe. Gr@pe happens.), and I have seen some people downplay the fact gr@pe happens to Mark, you know doing the "lucky" shit. I tend to think that people saying "y'all aren't ready for that conversation" tends to be a copout way to refuse to elaborate thoughts on controversial or challenging topics, but in this case I do share Eddy's worry that, us weirdos who watch longform progressive men's podcasts aside and bearing in mind we're not the majority of men, or even women here, I do think one case for not doing the scene and finding another way to introduce Marky would be that I do fear the dialogue would get worse and fucked real quick and not be useful for a meaningful discourse since apparently most people can't behave or sit town to talk about r@pe, full stop. It's one of those frustrating things where we need to have these conversations, even when they're uncomfortable and gr@pe always should be, but as progressives we often struggle to talk to not as aware people in terms they understand and are ready to confront, since no productive dialogue happens if you freak people out beyond the point of anyone being able to have a rational discourse about a topic. It's like how you can talk to a southern working class guy at a bar over a few beers, and describe 10 pro working class policies that would be great for him and everybody that we don't do in America and it's bullshit we don't do, and you could probably get that guy to agree with you on most or all of your proposals, but use the word "socialism" and some guys lose their minds and shut down any conversation you might've been having and other you as an enemy to America and say communism vuvuzuela 100000000 gorillion people dead communism never works thought terminating cliches.
yes to everything in this comment
W Take
Atom Eve is Godlike. It's just as easy for her kill a person accidentally as Invincible.
No?
Yes? I mean humans are pretty fragile in comparison to what these demigods are working with. "You pissed me off energy spike in the chess or the head". You can't tell me that is less deadly than a being punched with Mach 1 speed.
@@Kcoldraz eve has to put way more intentionality behind her strength and her ability is matter manipulation. Like she has super strength and speed, but like it’s just a stat boost, she doesn’t scale to the powerhouses stat-wise
@@Iamreallyfreakinggay I think in universe, they use some vague notion of Eve's energy being drained for extra extraneous tasks as a way to indicate a power cap, but without clear limitations to her powers matter manipulation becomes OP really quick like unless the writers are keen to frame it in a limited imagination, super hero-y way and rely on the audience to not think about it too hard. Like, could Eve k1ll a Viltrumite if she turned any number of their vital internal organs like their brain, heart, skin, liver, kidneys, etc., into pudding? Granted for that to work she'd need the jump on them because in a 1v1 the Viltrumites are absolutely faster and could k1ll her before she got the chance if she didn't catch them unprepared, but start thinking creatively about how turning matter into other matter can be used in various situations and Eve becomes scary strong real quick. Like, how many bad guys could she wipe if, instead of making shields and pink energy blasts, she just materialized highly radioactive cobalt into their bloodstream? Or lodged a grenade into their throat? Or turned their eyeballs into two lumps of highly radioactive cobalt? Alls I'm saying is matter manipulation on a smart user is probably in my top 10 super powers I would NOT want to f**k with.
She is like a glass cannon. Strong offense. But with a fragile human body.
I haven't watched the show yet or read the comic, but I have been seeing discussion about this scene potentially coming up. Me personally, I feel like they should keep the event happening, but I don't know about showing it in detail. I feel like removing the event entirely is just... I know this might come off as cringy, but I feel like getting rid of the event is disrespectful to male SA vicitms. Not enough media accurately portrays that men can be victims of SA as well, and I think it's an important conversation. Because for the longest time, the SA of men has been done for cheap, gross laughs
Eddie its called poppers, yall fuckin it up
the fact that they said "it should be called booty poppers, someone is gonna steal that" had me cackling
It's sad how lightly SA is taken when it's done against men especially when the predator is a woman. I understand why men who have been SA'd especially by women dont feel comfortable to talk about it. That said, not sure how this season handles this arc but will c S2 in its entirety when I can. Monster Girl gonna b wild to deal w too iykyk.
Bro we gotta just chalk it up. Extra brownie points for whenever our manhood in general is challenged. Like, check this out. I'm a man ain't nobody tryna hear that sh*t🌝
It’s ironic how the voice actress of Anissa (Shantel VanSanten) plays Becca in The Boys who was SA by Homelander.
Wow. In another universe, Becca is the super villain
NO WAY ITS HER
Why did yall put that in the title and it didn’t happen in the show yet 🤦🏾♂️
Right, I rewatched the last episode to see if I missed a scene
@@fangal12 you guys just got spoiled 😎
@@righteousrawb7225 from my history of watching adapted IP, I know that just because it's in the source material doesn't mean it will be in the show so I don't really see it as a spoiler
This needed a huge spoiler alert lmao
Just discovered your podcast, but this is great stuff!
Alvin... From supporting imperialism to that Kendrick take... Damn.
Alvin isnt on this one tho?
in a head lock is crazyyy i canNOT with yall💀
I was dying at the idea of calling up Cecil to okay the use of million+ dollar government tech and resources to rebuild someone's dick after a superhero s*x injury. It makes me wonder how that flies in the Invincible universe. They kind of touch upon that in The Boys, but in Invincible, Cecil is ever the pragmatist. Obviously Superheroes should have the right to date and be treated as people (The whole Marvel Mutants dilemma), but some of those mfers do have pretty dangerous powers, see the Mark Amber exploration scene. Further, if someone got hurt and the public sees that Cecil and the govt. fund and compensate their top heroes mightily from a medical and monetary standpoint, but don't compensate civilians when hurt, there'd be a massive furor. In fact, we see how Cecil covers civilians like rebuilding Debbies house twice and presumably fully covering her medical care. If some non powered guy got his dick smashed, does Cecil just let out a heavy, annoyed sigh and sign the papers to get that guy a shiny new 8 speed 10 vibration modes size adjusting robo rod for his troubles?
"The Billionaire" character Eddie described was a thing in a VERY bad comic called Marville.
intro is tight nice boys!
Tech jacket is in the invincible comic, that's why you said it
It poppers dude. Poppers.
The funny thing about poppers is that when my boyfriend was over in America, he saw a 5 hour energy and I realized they look the same and that's wild
Insightful!
I am actually shocked by who they have Voicing Anissa. If people go and look up the voice actress they could come to the conclusion as to what is going to happen 😢.
This is a good conversation
What was the movie with the giant lady in it?
31:23 poppers 😂
Great video
0:07 brother in Crist needs help 😅 but I get it!
31:02 i believe what dr. edward is referring to here is referred to in the queer community as ‘poppers’ 🤓☝️
31:51 it's called poppers. It helps to relax your sphincter. But it's basically paint fumes. So like, I do with that as you will lol
Honestly is this the place where all my favorite black CZcamsrs meet like? Whaat one minute yall got F.D now yall got Blerd without fear IM HERE FOR THIS!!
2:09 - Maaaaaan. Alvin is canceled.
Isnt this a massive spoiler?
Yeah, I was wondering why the hell they titled the episode after it. Internet discussion has made it really difficult to enjoy some media I swear
Coming back to this and seeing how poorly Alvin’s Kendrick take has aged is hilarious!
Poppers Eddie! 😂
30:58 poppers 💀💀💀
Not to down play r and especially male r because of how overlooked it’s been historically, but what Josh said ong. Take me like a mf 😂
Not to downplay male r but *downplays male r*
@@G-LukeJALMAO 😂 fr man coulda kept this inside… no diddy
Tbh honest I don’t really need that grape scene in the show, I honestly don’t see them going there. I wasn’t a fan of that part anyway. I do like the arch Mark went on but he can still hit those levels without getting graped in my opinion.
Personally, my issue with a lot of scenes that regards assault of men is that it is treated with the same shallowness as assault of women in the majority of portrayals and Invincible (comic) was no different in that tradition. Violence isn't something to be revelled in unless it involves some comedic aspect of it but Invincible frames all violence as extraordinarily traumatic but it includes so much of it that every bit of blood splatter loses its weight and meaning. Naturally, Mark being assaulted only has impact in the fact that it is a unique form of violence but it nonetheless falls under the same near- meaningless category of violence that the comic puts so much stock in.
Incredibly well put, I feel the same
I disagree to be honest, i think the scene in the comic is not meaningless at all, especially with how it impacts marks character arc and his future family. The scene's context also matters here, in the comics, it happens kinda out of nowhere, right after mark and eve have a small fight, and anissa just shows up and does it, the comic makes a point later on about how mark feels guilty that he didn't fight back more to stop it from happening, where eve dispels him of those concerns, the comic handles the fallout of the event in a way that i feel actually treats the matter extremely seriously and far better than i've seen in other media. This scene is important for marks character within the story, and is also meant to show how detached the viltrumites are from humanity (at least anissa) at this point in the story, as we do learn later that that "way of doing things" was commonplace on viltrum due to the darwinistic nature of their society. It does however make Anissa's growth less believable, and i think the comic handles her character extremely poorly after the event occurs, she constantly taunts mark about it until one issue we learn that she has a loving family now and is actually a good person apparently, not a fan of how that's done but mark's perspective is still done well imo. It would be a detriment to the overall story and characters if the scene didn't happen.
I mean historically speaking men receive much more severe punishment.
33:30 + 50:03
POPPERS!
I would probably Date a superhero like a vigilante type like green arrow it’s less dangerous maybe a mutant because I could relate to a mutant but that might be dangerous it’s like if you get into a argument and you call the police, they could just get rid of the police would be unstoppable it’s pretty dangerous
What an insane episode hahaha
Mannn don’t let no dude try to make you feel wrong for how you feel. Foh Mike Jack👉🏾
Saying Jcole doesn’t make bad music bur kendrick does has never listened to 4 yours eyes only. KOD IS ASS
I felt like Josh might’ve felt like Eddie threw him under the bus a bit. Like his face after says “cmon man now I look like a bad guy and I didn’t even know about the grape scene”.
Man, I already knew about this plotline but did yall REALLY have to put it in the title and thumbnail like that??? Like damn, that might not even happen in the next season could be the one after, thats a huge spoiler
Cool, super glad you spoil the show. Awesome job guys.
N*gga said damn we f*cking? Aight. LMAOOOOOO
👋🏽🚩
🛋️
So is Marc ever going to not get F’d up?
I mean, he's still learning my dude, he isn't gonna just get some random power up.
I'm seriously waiting for him to not be a scrub for once
@erievhs It's not his fault the viltrumites are stronger and more experienced than him.
@@SalikCollinstrue I think his issue is he's a good person and doesn't want just go in rage mode every fight even tho he gotbthe hands when he does, I think he's gonna end up trying to get so tough that he can square up without killing anyone at least inhope thats what happens
@@SalikCollins Only the Viltrumites?
Wow male raep
1st I want to say it annoys me with all the changes to Amber and Marks relationship that she never talked to Debbie. How she talked to Atom eve before Debbie? I feel like if Amber had a closer relationship to Debbie she would have had the emotional support to keep the relationship going. Although I know they didn't do it to have mark and eve be a thing which let me just get to my second point. This comment is long enough.
As far as the Anissa thing goes. That doesn't happen until Mark get's the costume change. I do think Male identifying trauma's such as rape is an important subject to explore but some writers are not equipped enough to handle it. Ala when catwoman raped nightwing that one comic. Fandom cant be a reason to not approach a taboo subject at all because nothing taboo will be explored because fandom rule 34's everything. I do think you can like a taboo character or thing without your morals being called into question. It's fantasy and morals don't have to be apart of the fantasy. Now when the taboo subject you like comes up in interactions to others who dont like that taboo thing you like. You need to have a good faith talk about the wrongs and evils about it. Also keep it within the people who like that taboo with you. I dont think Kirkman is the proper person to handle that conversation of male identifying Sexual assault unless he has sensitivity readers and consultants. If he's really serious about making the portrayal better than in the comics.
Did she? I thought that was Tarantula. And before her, it was Mirage, I believe. And there's that retcon where he was groomed...
@@weichihwen my bad and your right it was tarantula and who did the infamous rape on the rooftop in the comic. Also mirage with the groom. Though Selena and Nightwing had an affair for a short time that's where I got confused. And can also be argued for grooming.
Is there something that wrong with how the scene is in the comics though (other than the inherently shocking nature)? I thought the fallout of the scene on marks character was quite well handled throughout the comics, it takes a pretty long time for him to come to terms with what really happened to him along with properly healing from the trauma it caused, and the story rightfully calls out anissa for being a monster in the eyes of human society (her character later though is not handled well however). I certainly think there can be improvements made to the scene certainly, particularly to make it more equipped to handle that conversation like you said, but i don't think the comic necessarily does a bad job in its portrayal.
@@jeremiahbennett3004 I'm sorry for the late reply. It certainly isn't the worst portrayal at least on marks end. Its more the writers end of not having the rest of the characters developed enough. So only eve is mostly there to play support and mark just has to suffer through the effects alone. So Its treated more of a relationship hurtle. Also yeah Anissa's "redemption" needs a whole rewrite.
Black panther is unironically a God now. 7:16
well you saw how invincible was dressed and with the cost of sex got to get it how you live and she was not ugly so i give it a pass
😭
This is CRAZY!
Craaaazy take. 😬
Cringe
This is pathetic, weak and disrespectful. Downright sad.