Are you an Ni or Si user? Ask yourself this…
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- čas přidán 7. 06. 2024
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i enjoyed this video and found several useful insights, but some viewers may feel that Ren said a lot but didn't seem to make the distinction between Ni and Si concrete enough...well, i'll repost this message outside the thread i originally posted it in, per Ren's request:
Sometimes INFJ thinkers explain things in a way that seems like peeling back layers of an onion, especially when speaking, and it often loses people. that's likely because INFJs have an intuitive grasp of the world, and not a concrete one--that, coupled with a strong desire to articulate unseen truths in hopes of benefiting fellow man, but not always being equipped with socially-established words, concepts, and phrases. Analogizing further: INFJs want to move through the world a bit like flying above it, because by flying above it, they can see many different things at once. Intuition gives them the ability to see many things at once, because they focus on patterns, not specifics. If the INFJ drops down into the world and tries explaining to people on the ground what they've seen while flying, the INFJ quickly discovers that these people on the ground have never flown before, and thus, don't understand a thing. While some types would just fly away and leave the people be, the INFJ feels a desperate need to communicate something new and of value to their fellow man. So, the INFJ tries quickly looking around to gather clues about how the ground people in this locale seem to interact with the world, or how they use language--local words and symbols and turns of phrase--anything that might be used by the INFJ to form analogies between what the groundies experience day to day, and what the INFJ has perceived while viewing the land from the vantage of the sky. Sometimes the analogies don't readily work, because the INFJ might be using particular words or expressions in a way novel to their use by the groundies. when this happens, the INFJ gathers new data from the groundies, reformulates some new analogies, and tries again. This is the "peeling back the layers of the onion" part. And the layers are often peeled back because the INFJ desperately wants to be understood by others, and also feels a deep responsibility to benefit others with the truths they gather, but can't always find the right words because they spend more time in patterns and intuitions--so they try different ways of saying the same thing, sometimes trying out languages or colloquialisms foreign to them. Unfortunately this results in prolixity, esp when orating. When flying above the ground, many contexts are seen as one whole, thus specifics are forgone (specifics like words). But on the ground, specifics must be regained in order to communicate truthfully, and that's when the problem arises: when the contemplation of intuitive patterns is frequently favored, words aren't frequently used--so that when the INFJ goes and starts using them again, it may seem like a lot of almost nothing being said.
as for me and this video, i wrote a lot that i ended up deleting in favor of this attempt at a distillation:
Ni: One's inner perception of metaphysical truths becomes a framework used to determine one's social behavior; Si: One's inner perception of group standards and norms becomes a framework used to determine one's social behavior. In other words: Ni favors the metaphysical over the social and individual, and hopes to adhere to it; Si favors the social over the metaphysical and the individual, and hopes to adhere to it. Behaviorally, as Ni desires for individuals to adhere to metaphysical truths and Si desires for individuals to adhere to social truths, Ni users become less flexible than Si in social contexts. That's because the metaphysical is ultimately one, whereas the social is variable and myriad. Thinking about it hierarchically helps it make sense: Metaphysical>Social>Individual.
I agree that Ni is concentrating and inflexible. This is the nature of forming a universal worldview. I can even sense in myself a resistance to opposing information which might undermine my understanding. I have learnt to resist this pretty well. The Fe/Ti axis is similar, because it seeks a systematic, universal understanding.
Thus our combined functions makes us quite rigid in many ways. It’s easy to see how this could lead to villainy. Obsession, passion and vision are hallmarks of many villains, as well as past trauma. This could add weight to my belief that Hitler was an INFJ. Hitler was notoriously stubborn and inflexible, but he was happy to delegate when he thought it was ok to. But he often didn’t listen to his generals, preferring to trust his Ni vision:
A counter to INFJ stubbornness is those with lead judging functions. They are in general less open minded imo. INFJ in certain states can be super open minded imo.
Yes ISFJ are quite a different animal. More flexible due to Si/Ne, which is more subjective and open. I suspect ISFJ easily misunderstand INFJ due to the INFJs poor sensing detail. The depth perception of INFJ won’t be readily or at all available to ISFJ imo, and in a past friendship it led to many misunderstandings. The ISFJ I knew felt very strongly about certain things and as many sensors do, sought to impose this ‘limited view’ onto intuitives like me. As you know, I’m quite against assessing all types the same. I’ll explain this in my book. Assessing people or types or any factor is not simple, and can be done from many perspectives. But overall, INFJ in particular suffer a lot from a predominantly SJ world. Yes, every type has important uses and places in society. The situation that exists for INFJ would be radically different if society had widespread understanding of MBTI. It’s a controversial subject because its implications are profound and not well or widely understood imo.
Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha! I DO remember those days though. Then I crawled up out of the mud, stood erect, and the strains of "Also sprach Zarathustra" began to play in the background, followed by a chorus by Sting of "Free-free, set them free (set them free)".
Not that I'm a Biblical quote type but, "One thing I do know, that though I was blind, now I see.” John 9:25
Probably the most IMPORTANT thing is to see that you are in the 30% of the population that are Intuitive personality types and NOT in the 70% Sensor types, and even MORE so that you are in the extreme minority (INFJ & INTJ) who are Ni users. Because you are NEVER going to see the world the way the Sensor does, and they will NEVER see things the way you do (and will label you as everything from 'weird' and 'creepy' to 'autistic'). From there on life becomes easier, because you CAN learn why and how to maneuver in that brave new world. Wish all this had been available then, when I was younger. But I'm helping my Ni using kids now best as I can. And I will be eventually getting the new book too, Ren - got to keep the Philosopher-Saint of INFJs in coffee, don't we?
Oh, and I am a 'villain' now too. Because I refuse to conform, and maneuver around constraints.
I also wish I’d learnt about MBTI earlier, but the advantage of not having done so is the experiences which I now often understand through MBTI. I was telling a friend recently how music can often make me perceive more than just emotions - things like worldview etc. The friend was a bit gobsmacked and said ‘how do you do that?’ I said, ‘I don’t know’.
Classic example of Ni working subconsciously.
The more simplistic writing of a character you need, the easier it is if they have some sort of fixed tunnel vision one way or the other. Especially this makes writing a lot easier for villain characters that tend to have 1 goal, 1 thing they want, 1 thing they hate..etc
I’m INFJ. I have a friend who is a high Si user. I think she would say I’m inflexible or unrealistic. I would say she can be, at times, weasly… she will bend her ideals and I won’t. Even to my detriment.
How are you sure that bending ideals is related to Ni rather than FI? It more sounds like Fi not wanting to bend their ideals, even when the group pressures them to do so
@@PowerRedBullTypology in my case, because I have Fe for sure. But in general you make a good point.
Fi is weasly when they do/say what they know is wrong because it fits better with what they want, their end goal. From Ni’s perspective it’s hypocritical or contradictory. NiFe says do what is “right” even if you don’t benefit from it yourself. I guess in the case of Ni the ideals tend to exist outside of the person, independent of them, in Si the exist inside and so, can change as needed.
I figured out that I am JAH. Thank you, Ren!
JAH! Good to hear from you, bruh. Have you been well?
@@RensRoom I’ve been well, although I’ve been fatmaxxing with Uber Eats because of all the discounts they’re giving me 😂 how are you and le wife?
Hi Jah! 👋🏻 Wumz here 🙂
@@life_lab_chronicles wassuppp we got all the Betas up in here 😎
@@life_lab_chronicles Hi Wumz!
I think I could become a villain. Still pretty sure I am INFJ after this video.
Mhm.. It's certainly in me, I just don't want to.
Edit: Actually, I am a villain to some people, and I don't care because if I weren't, I would feel I did something wrong in my life.
So I can, am, and will be a villian- sometimes.
what's with the typology community with edgy self-labels lol
An ENTP friend and I both agreed that we have asked ourselves the question "Are intuitives bad people?"
that is a highly simplstic question where you can be sure there is no simple right or wrong answer for.
Ren, do you believe functions exist on some form of a spectrum or do you see them as totally seperate?
I would strongly appreciate an answer. If you have not made your mind up, that is of course an answer too.
@@PowerRedBullTypology It depends on the model. In CT for example, a spectral approach probably makes more sense. But in « mbti » it doesn’t. How eg Fe is conceived doesn’t allow, to my mind, for a middle point between it and Te. You can of course still articulate how both are manifestations of extroverted judgement; but the further specification of each seems dichotomous to me.
My father is ISTJ and his internal perception compared to mine is definitely not holistic and rather is context-driven. Your insight instantly clicked. Also its true Ni is so rigid because of the connectedness of its framework.. its all glued together in one way or another and so a single strand of data is not useful on its own. I feel less alone with this perception thanks to your videos. I wonder if you have a video on how to make INFJ friends in real life.
15 minutes of talking a lot and saying almost nothing. I still don't understand what was the major point on how to distinguish
Because he’s infj. 😂. If he wrote it down he would be very clear, they’re not great at verbal explanations…. I think the point was high Ni users are not flexible in their perception and Si users are more so, situation to situation.
@@NobodysFavourite I'd say that Ni views things more as wholes, rather than pointing out each detail separately, less likely to hyperfocus on just one aspect of a thing, more likely to focus on its entirety, that's why INTJs make good analysts of people or things. I'm an INTJ myself and i express myself well because of that Te, i'm very concise and straightforward, better at writing than speech, but nonetheless, that's why i found this video a bit weird, there wasn't a clear point being made, i guess the lack of Te is the reason
i can see why you'd say that, but it's quite unfair, because Ren said many different very interesting things. what i mean when i say i can see why you'd say that is, sometimes INFJ thinkers explain things in a way that seems like peeling back layers of an onion, especially when speaking, and it often loses people. that's likely because INFJs have an intuitive grasp of the world, and not a concrete one--that, coupled with a strong desire to articulate unseen truths in hopes of benefiting fellow man, but not always being equipped with socially-established words, concepts, and phrases. Analogizing further: INFJs want to move through the world a bit like flying above it, because by flying above it, they can see many different things at once. Intuition gives them the ability to see many things at once, because they focus on patterns, not specifics. If the INFJ drops down into the world and tries explaining to people on the ground what they've seen while flying, the INFJ quickly discovers that these people on the ground have never flown before, and thus, don't understand a thing. While some types would just fly away and leave the people be, the INFJ feels a desperate need to communicate something new and of value to their fellow man. So, the INFJ tries quickly looking around to gather clues about how the ground people in this locale seem to interact with the world, or how they use language--local words and symbols and turns of phrase--anything that might be used by the INFJ to form analogies between what the groundies experience day to day, and what the INFJ has perceived while viewing the land from the vantage of the sky. Sometimes the analogies don't readily work, because the INFJ might be using particular words or expressions in a way novel to their use by the groundies. when this happens, the INFJ gathers new data from the groundies, reformulates some new analogies, and tries again. This is the "peeling back the layers of the onion" part. And the layers are often peeled back because the INFJ desperately wants to be understood by others, and also feels a deep responsibility to benefit others with the truths they gather, but can't always find the right words because they spend more time in patterns and intuitions--so they try different ways of saying the same thing, sometimes trying out languages or colloquialisms foreign to them. Unfortunately this results in prolixity, esp when orating. When flying above the ground, many contexts are seen as one whole, thus specifics are forgone (specifics like words). But on the ground, specifics must be regained in order to communicate truthfully, and that's when the problem arises: when the contemplation of intuitive patterns is frequently favored, words aren't frequently used--so that when the INFJ goes and starts using them again, it may seem like a lot of almost nothing being said.
as for me and this video, i wrote a lot that i ended up deleting in favor of this attempt at a distillation:
Ni: One's inner perception of metaphysical truths becomes a framework used to determine one's social behavior; Si: One's inner perception of group standards and norms becomes a framework used to determine one's social behavior. In other words: Ni favors the metaphysical over the social and individual, and hopes to adhere to it; Si favors the social over the metaphysical and the individual, and hopes to adhere to it. Behaviorally, as Ni desires for individuals to adhere to metaphysical truths and Si desires for individuals to adhere to social truths, Ni users become less flexible than Si in social contexts. That's because the metaphysical is ultimately one, whereas the social is variable and myriad. Thinking about it hierarchically helps it make sense: Metaphysical>Social>Individual.
@@SteubeManYou just described how I operate; how I am! Perfect. The way I give to the world what I see while flying above the world is through my art, and intuitive writings of soul language, which encapsulate what groundies are craving but don’t know it.
@@artistocracyis there a way to check out your art? i’m really curious to see it 😊
I consider myself both a NI and a GGER user
I’ve a feeling I know you from some discord server!