Why Did Xbox Back Compat Stop? Was It A Tech Or Licensing Issue?
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- čas přidán 23. 12. 2023
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Two of my biggest disappointments this generation were the stopping of Xbox backwards compatibility and the Sega Ages line on the Switch.
The Xbox in general tbh
@@saesang352 at least they aren't out here getting hacked, constantly laying off game devs, cancelling games, and raising their prices
Xbox has been hacked a few times it just doesn't get coverage
@@bugsnax4145Cry harder xbot 😂😂😂
@@MichaelM28which is what you do the second you wake up with Xbox living in your head rent free.
The legality surrounding disc based backwards compatibility has to change. Imagine if you went to play one of your DVDs on a new Blu-ray player but it couldn't play it because of music licensing issues with the soundtrack. I understand they're not exclusively using data from the disc, but I thought physical media only counted as licensing anyway. If it requires a physical copy, it really shouldn't matter imo.
The issue is that the backwards compatibility is different than running xbone games on a xbox SX. These are essentially custom builds of the games put in an emulator in order to run on newer hardware. None of the data on the disc is actually copied over, it's only used for licensing. Note that a lot of "remastered" ports will do this. Zelda Breath of the Wild for example, the switch version is literally the Wii U version running in an emulation wrapper with some tweaks to make it run better on switch hardware.
So while Microsoft is marketing it as backwards compatibility, they still need to essentially port every game as a new release. If the xbone could run xbox 360 code without any changes or tweaking, there wouldn't be any licensing involved, but that isn't the case. It's backwards compability from the consumer's perspective, in that they can run a older game on newer hardware without needing to purchase a new license, but from a legal perspective its the same getting a free "next gen" upgrade license if you own the previous gen version. The license on the disc entitles you to the build on that disc, these ports are completely different builds despite being the same game. In the same way that buying a ps5 game doesn't entitle you to the xbox series X version of that game.
@@zyposts thats how a lot of switch ports are done. if its an old enough game they take the original game and run it through an emulator instead of redoing the game
The legality surrounding games in general needs help. Any other media medium if a license expires I can still buy the existing product; there just won't be any future products (for example Spectacular Spider-Man. Sony lost the TV rights after Disney bought marvel (Sony just owns movie rights) so the show was canceled, but I can still buy or stream it)). The very concept of delisting games shouldn't exist and definitely shouldn't be legal. For that matter Overwatch 2 shouldn't be legal. Like I bought Overwatch Day one as a specific type of game. You shouldn't just be able to push an update, throw on a two, and have it become a very different product than purchased.
theres no legality surrounding disc based backwards compatibility, they can absolutely do it
xbox wants to resell these games digitally, so thats why they dont care to support discs if they cant resell the game digitally
the whole 360 library could work on series x if they wanted, but they dont, they want you to play 360 games as long as they gain a profit from it
MS can allow the disc game to run directly from the disc without the need for it to download from the store
Software in general needs to change. We don't own what we buy physically or digitally. This is absurd.
They could go back and give their current compatible library 60fps boosts.
Games like Splinter Cell, Red Dead Redemption 1, Asuras Wrath, Rainbow Six Vegas, Dead Space 1, and Deus Ex: Human Revolution
A lot of the splinter cells are arent they? Including ones from the original xbox. Dead Space 1 has an FPS boost, like 2 and 3, but also recently released a full remaster with a 1440p 60fps mode. RDR1 is also 4k60 now. Deus Ex is a good call though.
Red dead already has it as well.
@@callummorgan7495 all the splinter cell games have a 30 FPS cap.
Dead Space 2 and 3 did get a 60fps boost. The first one never did, probably so it wouldn't deter people from getting the remake.
Red Dead Redemption is only 4K and 60 FPS on PS5.
Playing it on Xbox series X will give you 4k and 30fps.
Red dead runs at 4k but 30 fps @@ads401-
@@callummorgan7495rdr1 is 30 FPS.
My biggest issue with Xbox is they keep changing their identity.
Back compat and 4K 60 fps was what they were all about with the one X. Now it’s game pass. Previously it was Kinect. The lack of consistency and changing their narrative every few years is really hurting sales. Hard to have faith in them as a consumer.
Bring blur and forza motorsport 4 to back compat. Get a disc tray for series S.
360 was their biggest success, why? Great games no gimmicks, was backward compatible
You forget that the non-HDD version of the 360 couldn't use backwards compatibility and that accounted for a large portion of sales due to its lower price.
Backwards compatibility is great to have but it certainly didn't help or hinder 360 sales.
About the constant change of direction and loosing customer goodwill, I remember I got an Xbox one because of announced XB1 "exclusives", only for them to decide to put all their games on PC shortly after. Felt like money down the toilet.
It’s why Nintendo and Sony are ahead of the game.
Betting Forza Motorsport 4 isn't backwards compatible because they don't want to expose just how shitty modern Forza is in comparison.
The 360 was hardly backward compatible. Maybe 70 Original Xbox games were playable on it, and not even consistently at that. They did much better with back compat on Xbox One, even if many of my favorite games, among which the Forza franchise, didn't make it on there. The problem, certainly with Forza, isn't just the music--which Rockstar refuses to re-license and instead just cuts from their games, making them less and less of a product with each passing year--but also the cars, and plenty of stuff is, stupidly enough, licensed only for use on a specific console. One could argue that even just putting the game into an Xbox One and running the game verbatim would be a breach of the license, and Microsoft therefore won't allow even that route, because there is no way back compat is ever going to make them the money those lawsuits would cost, and we all know how litigious Take2 can be.
The Orange Box should've gotten a 4k 60fps boost.
This is just my best guess and is in no way educated but I think the reason they stopped is because publishers realized they could simply "remaster" their old 360 games and sell them again to you for $60-$70.
Maybe in the beginning they had gotten away with it because publishers hadn't caught on yet.
But when companies like Rockstar release their definitive edition or when Konami releases their master collection then all of the dominos start falling.
Why would a greedy corp just let microsoft re-release their game with a boost to FPS, resolution and auto-HDR for free when they can do bacially the same and profit off of it.
I think you're on the right track, though wrong on the greed angle. A semi competent remaster will always be better than backwards comp ability mode and 60fps boosts. Most remasters weren't in the 60-70 USD range either, most were 20-30, if that.
BC is really only a worthwhile feature during the early part of a consoles generation, before its built out its own native library. Once that happens, trying to play the previous generations games, especially 7G and older, become downright physically painful to actually play. Given the consumer preference for proper remaster vs BC, spending money supporting BC is a financial money pit.
Lastly, so long as the consoles stay with the x86 uarch, backwards compatibility for the consoles will largely be a thing of the past. All PS4/Pro games run perfectly fine on the PS5, as the XB1 games all running perfectly fine on the Series S|X. Be interesting to see how the Xbox generation develops though. There's a lot more striation in the TFlops on the Xbox side, 1.4TF, 4.0TF, 6.0TF, and 12.4TF. Developing for the 1.4TF XB1 baseline leaves much of the SX's abilities untapped, while focusing on the SX leaves every other Xbox sku in the dust.
Yes everyone else is as fault but not Microsoft themselves... Man you xbots are delusional, it really is a cult. 😂😂😂😂😂
@@Bateluer While sticking with AMD and x86 most definitely helps BC efforts, it doesn't make BC trivial to achieve. Console games ship with precompiled shaders that target one exact hardware combination. Just because the newer hardware inherits the same architecture doesn't mean it'll magically run the old code with zero issues. This isn't just on the GPU side - CPU differences (e.g. timing) can cause all sorts of weird issues when trying to run old code.
The APUs for Series S/X and PS5 had to be custom designed to behave like Jaguar CPUs when running in BC mode in order to avoid BC problems. They also had to be customized specifically to run Gen8 shaders. You can't simply throw in AMD's latest and greatest parts and call it a day. Obviously, working with AMD for 2+ generations helps a lot as both sides have in-depth technical understanding and can collaborate effectively to iron out bugs, but it definitely inflates the R&D time and budget.
Time will tell if MS/Sony bother to do the same with the PS6 and whatever the next Xbox is called. I'm fairly certain Gen9 software will be supported if they go with AMD x86 again, but Gen8 support isn't necessarily guaranteed if MS/Sony decide it's not worth the additional R&D.
@@JohnSmith-bt4lf I should have clarified a little. While not trivial, its far simpler than building out a full emulation system to translate completely different uarchs.
I think its also worth pointing out that the APUs in the 9G consoles weren't custom designed as one would typically define 'custom designed'. The PS3's Cell was custom built, the X360's Xenos was custom built. The Jaguar APUs in the 8G consoles were pretty much off the shelf AMD Jaguar chips, almost literally the unsold stock from laptops. The custom part was part was pretty much on the driver and API side. Its similar for the RDNA2/Zen2 based parts in the 9G consoles. These use the same APIs as the 8G, with 9G extensions. Think DX12 to 12.x. AMD has built a lucrative business model off their modularity and semicustom designs.
As far as what they do with the 10G parts in the future, we'll have to wait. We're not even at the half way point for the 9G right now. At present, and for the foreseeable roadmaps, AMD is the only company that can deliver all the core parts of a set top gaming console at good price/performance/power ratios. There was some leaked documents out of Microsoft that claimed they would be looking at ARM based parts for a future cloud focused Xbox, which could either break all their backwards compatibility or shift all the complex emulation to Microsoft's cloud.
I still primarily see BC as a short term effort though, something that becomes less financially appealing the longer a console generation goes on. Games do age, and most anything prior to the 7G is unplayable today, regardless of any resolution or framerate increases they get. Once a console sufficiently builds out its native library, the consumer desire for BC drops to near 0.
Even now, some of the early 7G titles are extremely rough by modern standards. Eventually, we'll be saying the same about early 8G and 9G titles, though it'll be interesting to see how the perspective since this crossgen period is excessively long.
Many companies remaster their game and make the original backwards compatible at the same time.
No Chrome Hounds, No Riddick game, no Dark Souls 2 and I speak as someone with 225 OG and 360 digital titles for my One X
All games that could have been backward compatibles but were slated for a remaster back then were blocked by their publishers (Dark Souls 2 and 3 but also DMC4, the Batman Arkham trilogy, LA Noire, Payday 2, Tales of Vesperia, etc.). Riddick is most likely a licensing deal issue.
@@HalfpennyTerwilligerDark Souls 3 never released on Xbox 360 nor did it get a remaster, it was always an Xbox One/PS4 game from the start
@@troydavidson4631 Thanks for the correction. I own the trilogy collection and incorrectly assumed they were all remasters.
The back compat/ one x enhancement/ fps boost team should have been made an outside dev team that helps others when they are not fixing older games
The DF guys have previously mentionned that there were such a team at Xbox so it's very much possible that the backward compatibility team has been folded into it untill they're needed to make the current catalog backward compatible with the next machine.
It was already a team and it was disbanded once the program was terminated
I do remember Phil saying something about providing an all-purpose emulator and letting people experience games with their discs. That would limit digital availability and cause the Series S to miss out on a tremendous amount of titles, but it would be one way to ensure that users can replay their older games without needing to have decades' worth of previous consoles hanging around.
Having so many xbox one games stuck at low resolutions is really annoying, watch dogs is like 720, most games are 900p , that resolution boost promise was really exciting. Annoyed that xbox got rid of it
Watchdogs is 900p aka the lowest resolution of X1 games. Though I don't know if there are 720p X1 games or Forespoken type fails where a game reached for the stars and got smacked 6 feet under like that game did on PS5. Cause they knew better and stuck to actual possibilities
@@CZcamsCensors you on about watch dogs 2? Watch dogs 1 is actually 792p
Peasants step your game up. PC versions have solved this problem already.
@@CZcamsCensorsDead Rising 3 and Cod Ghosts are 720p on Xbox One.
@@ajsingh4545with microstutter overload and unoptimized pc ports? Nah fam we good
They really need to being this back. It was during this time of making back compat games and enhancing old games that Xbox was most interesting in recent years tbh. And it's a finite goal. Once you've got the majority of Xbox 360 and OG Xbox games compatible, the hard work is done. Even is games are delisted later, at least they were made compatible, like Driver: San Francisco and Prince of Persia 2008.
Would have loved to see Operation Darkness, Tenchu Z, The Saboteur, SoulCalibur IV and V, Alpha Protocol, Wolfenstein, Project Sylpheed, Afro Samurai, Ubisoft's Naruto games, Wet, Majin Forsaken Kingdom, 99 Nights, Fuse, Singularity, Hunted TDF, and racers like Import Tuner, Forza 4, NFS Most wanted, Test Drive Unlimited and Project Gothams... and that's just 360 games.
Mechassault, Galleon, Midtown Madness 3, Kung Fu Chaos, Blood Wake, Whacked, Tenchu, Marc Ecko, Sudeki, Quantum Redshift...among others for OG Xbox. Alas.
The discontinuation of new backwards compatibility games from Xbox and Xbox 360 has actually been a deciding factor in me not picking up a Series X, predominantly because I now use my PC to play the kinds of games that I once played on Xbox, Xbox 360 and Xbox One.
Being able to play more of my catalogue of Xbox and Xbox 360 games at higher resolution and frame rate would be a significant draw for me in terms of buying a new console from Microsoft.
The sad thing is that is Xbox was dedicated enough, they could give us an emulator to run any Xbox/360 game directly from disc, but they have little financial incentive to do so.
So here we are stuck due to "licensing issues" because Microsoft isn't willing to give us an Emulator.
They can't give you an emulator, because they could be violating the licences that way. Some games are licensed to a specific console, and running them, even straight from disc in an emulator, like the Xbox 360 did with supported Original Xbox games, could be seen as circumventing or outright violating the license.
Cancelling BC really pisses me off. There are plenty of room to FPS/Resolution boosts.
Same here. Basically, every one of the reasons that made me choose a Series X this gen have gotten worse, are no longer being worked on, or are more expensive.
Game Pass is more expensive than it was and less big budget third party games are on the service. I don’t think the price increase has been justified when there’s been a decline in the quality of the content.
Microsoft Rewards has been nerfed to oblivion.
They completely mothballed the backwards compatibility program after just two years and as you said, licensing is not stopping them from resolution or fps boosts. They just have chosen to abandon what was initially pushed as a big feature.
The worst part, after they pulled, nerfed or made more expensive nearly every value add feature of the console they haven’t filled that void with top tier, must play content. I’ve learned my lesson at least. From here forward, I’m not buying a console unless the console can stand solely on the merit of its content library. Because value add features are subject to change, and when is the last time changes have been in favor of the consumer?
Still pissed that L4D2 never got fps boosted
@@jadosa29 lol xbox one x abandoned everything first. I still have mine. Would never buy a series x after that abandonment.
No there isn´t. There is only room left if you still have POWER left. You never had much power to begin with.
@@user-in3br2qs8x you talking nonsense
Sucks that it stopped.
Was one of the main reasons I got the Series X.
Then their marketing gesture was a success :/
Scam xbox players should pursue a lawyer for a lawsuit
@@SavantGardeEX sue them for what? tf lol
@@bugsnax4145False marketing. There is already a case to be made that both the Series X and especially Series S were false marketing as well because they claimed native 4K60 and 1440p60 respectively and complete parity between consoles except for resolution.
@@bugsnax4145 stop defend xbox
Honestly if it wasnt for og xbox and 360 games on xbox one and series i wouldnt even bother with xbox, like 180 of my 391 games are classics
I mean playstation has no games
@@Xander71267 The only platform that has and keeps exclusives is Nintendo end of discussion
@@Xander71267 Name a single game worth buying an xbox that's not Halo, gears or forza
@@Xander71267 Nice fan fiction but that really isn't true and the sales numbers back that up.
@@pixeljauntvr7774 what do the console sales have to do with having games
ps5 is living off the back of the ps4
while xbox is killing it with games
Virtua Tennis 3 is still to this day the best tennis game ever made, but you can only do so on original hardware which is a tragedy given that the online servers are still functional!
I think the issue is, its not worth it for MS because a digital version of this game (and many others) does not exist, so they cant sell it to you. Theres no financial incentive and its mostly a niche feature.
This was my favorite thing about going into this gen is the possibility of BC for both consoles. I’m very much of the side that games should be available on new consoles and I love to play them whenever I want in a more accessible and better way. Which is why I love remasters because it’s a way for us to play certain games again.
I'm afraid if you want true Backwards Compatibility then PC gaming is the only way to go.
This is the unfortunate truth. So long as steam lives, backwards compatibility will never die.
@@regencyrow1867 Eh, it depends. PC can do a lot but it can't cover all the bases. Especially since it can depend on ones actual PC as well.
@@regencyrow1867
PC kinda only goes up to the 6th generation with great compatibility. PS3, 360 and even Dreamcast emulation isn't perfect , and anything after just isn't feasible yet.
I actually hate remasters for this very reason. They always feel like cheap cash grabs taking advantage of how anti consumer the industry is. They're also so often low quality (take the GTA definitive edition collection) and spit on the original game. Not to mention it's just not the game I played (as in save file). A remake is more acceptable depending on how much work is put into it, but I'd prefer to able to play the game I originally paid money for in any scenario. Just preserve the original game that way additional money and resources doesn't need to be spent turning it into a low effort cash grab and not on any new IP or game entry. The sheer number of "new" games that are just remakes and remasters is honestly getting insulting.
I feel the licensing question will be answered next year with ABK purchase. Microsoft has a LOT of incentive (and all the power) to get all fully owned ABK games running on Xbox. They can also easily renegotiate the licensed games (Paramount already at least suggested as much for the Transformers cybertron games). That said regardless, Microsoft definitely could have and should have kept giving FPS boosts to more games that were already backwards compatibile. That was one of the best reasons to buy a series X and S especially before we got good current gen only games, and in just died a silent death.
Unfortunately, there are gaps where a title was skipped on Xbox due to cancellation or no consideration at the time. The Spyro series suffered this twice, where Enter the Dragonfly got no Xbox port due to poor sales and reception of the PS2 and Gamecube versions, and The Legend of Spyro: The Eternal Night got no Xbox release, as the original Xbox was discontinued, and an Xbox 360 version was never considered. Thus, an entire chapter was skipped, with Dawn of the Dragon releasing on Xbox 360 (2008) following the release of A New Beginning on Original Xbox (2006).
@@X2011racerthat’s interesting lol
@@X2011racer Xbox now own the code to all of those cancelled Xbox ports. They have the power to make Xbox versions now, if they so wish. If it did happen, it would probably end up being a collection, something akin to the Sega Classics collection.
"Crackdown", "Crackdown 2" and "Crackdown 3" urgently need a patch to run at 60 fps on Series X.
I absolutly hate how we have legalized licensing. The fact that you have to lose out on great [products after just a decade or two because of legal red tape and money, is something incredibly annoying.
I've always wanted it to be required to be open source or whatever if it's ever made unavailable. If they aren't selling them anyway, what are they losing exactly? I kinda hopes the EU steps up to make them do it, only group who seems to make some decent regulations
I really wish they would have made, more original xbox games backwards compatible. It would have been nice to play sonic heroes, and pac man world 2 on a modern platform.
Those are two very good games not to mention they would look so much better! Also pitfall the lost expedition, which I believe is an Activision title so maybe more is on the way.
I really wish they pushed out the ORIGINAL versions of Halo 1 and 2 on back compat. Preservation is important and MCC isn't preservation due to the insane amount of differences and changes.
I’d say a good 80% of my playtime on my series x is on back compat
There is so many games I would like to see again on back compatibility, PGR4, Alien Breed, too names but two,but I do wish that Xbox would continue this because retro gaming is in my DNA for over 40 years
They didn’t just stop BC, they took a ton of Xbox 360 games off the store earlier on in the year. Daytona USA, Jet Set Radio and Prince of Persia 2008, all no longer available. Surprisingly though, these three games are still available on the PSN Store through the PS3 which basically means Microsoft didn’t want to pay the licensing fees to keep them on the store. Not great for a platform with BC as a selling point.
Didnt the console versions of Prince of Persia 2008 have the actual ending sold as separate DLC? PC never got it.
@@toiletpapermerchant9310 It did. Surprisingly you can still buy the DLC on the Xbox store but not the full game.
Licensing deals are made between a license holder and the devs/publisher of the game. I don't see why the platform holder would have any say about those let alone having to foot the bill. Neither MS had a say on seeing them go nor Sony in keeping them on the PS3 store (since they can't be played on more recent platforms).
These games were most likely delisted for reasons relevant to their respective dev/publisher, most likely the end of licensing deal they didn't want to spend money on to renew or possibly strategy, say letting Jet Set Radio go to leave space for its upcoming remake.
Prince of Persia 2008 is a weird one since its DLC is still available. Was there any licensed music in the base game, but not the DLC, that could be the issue ?
That being said, all three are still playable if you own a physical copy. They're not that hard to find.
@@HalfpennyTerwilliger Well, Jet Set Radio and Prince of Persia are still available on Steam. Persia of Persia was the only one out of the three to get a physical release on either the PS3 or 360. When Sony eventually shuts down the PS3 store these games will be lost on these two platforms forever.
I don't know the logic of removing that specific list of games from the store, but one group I'm pretty sure with are all the backward compatible games who was available to purchase ONLY on the old Marketplace. In the list was games as Daytona USA, Jet Set Radio, Spelunky, Sega Vintage Collection: Alex Kidd & Co., Prince of Persia 2008, Castle Crashers, The Orange Box and Counter Strike GO.
One proof is, in USA, Garou and Samurai Shodown II are available on both Marketplace and the current Xbox Store, but, in Brazil, both games was available only on the old Marketplace, and both games was in the list of games to be removed from purchase in Brazil, and both are done today, but both games are still available in both stores in USA.
Even more, I saw In some place Microsoft was asked if the games present in both stores could still be availabe on the current store after their removal from the old store. Microsoft said yes. But in the practice was a big NO!! Examples was games like Aegis Wings, N+ and Phantom Breaker: Battle Grounds. Other games like Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey was in the removal list and both games are still purchasable in both stores up to today!!
I think Microsoft just don't want maintain maintenance of the old Marketplace due costs, once many items from that store is giving errors, preventing the purchase. That could explaing the closure of the Xbox 360 Marketplace in 2024 (even if considering it happened shortly after MS provoking Sony of closing the PS3 and Vita stores while they could keeping the 360's opened from that point).
For example, I tried go get the DLC for Otomedius Excellent, and one of the items, the BMG Oack 7, gave me an error message. After some time, that item's price changed to "-1". I found other itens, like some of the Tekken gem packs from Street Fighter X Tekken, giving me the same error.
I suggest you guys to check your backward compatible games, because there's many X360 games have DLCs who can be purchased only on the old Marketplace and not on current store (can also be purchased on the in-game store, if the game offer such option). Examples are Sonic Generation's Casino Night DLC, one of the DLCs of Lara Croft and The Guardian of Light, two of Castlevania: Lords of Shadows 2's DLCs, The Maw, Spelunky's DLCs, Castle Crashers DLCs, N+'s DLCs, and one of Super Street Fighter IV: Arcade Edition (this last one only inside the game).
I would love for them to update BATTLEFIELD 4 to 4K
Sell your Xbox series console. Add about a 150 bucks to whatever amount you get for the Xbox and build a modest PC. Play Bf4 at 4k 144fps max settings.
@soulreaperx7x I have a good PC but I like to play with controllers and it's pretty hard to use them on PC since it doesn't have aim assist. 😔
BF4 was super rough especially when trying to pick out snipers at very long distance when the enemies are so pixelated that they look like Mario.
Doesn’t matter if it’s going at 120hz when it looks like spilled skittles😁
@@HELLISHMATRIX Ah true. Controllers are definitely a no go without aim assist.
I just hope that Xenia continues to improve. Time and time again these game companies prove that they can't be trusted and will find ways to stop supporting older content. With emulation, this isn't a problem and gives some control back to the consumer.
Even the best emulator won´t ever come close to 100% accuracy though.
@@user-in3br2qs8xdolphin has come along way, used it recently i was very impressed how far its gotten
hopefully it has advantages over xbox consoles, such as making 30 fps capped games double in framerate without breaking anything vital in the game
@@user-in3br2qs8xDolphin would disagree with you
@@Irixion haha i made a dolphin comment and it got deleted
BC is why I went Xbox One X over PS4 Pro. Nice to hear that Phil believes games should move with you to new hardware. Whether the game developers are willing to support that is a whole other thing. I love the ease of console gaming but the whole BC thing really make me appreciate PC gaming even more and the Steam Deck does a great job towing that line. It is not even a question that all the current games that run on the Steam Deck will also run on the eventual Steam Deck 2 and run even better. You can't always confidently say the same thing about console gaming.
"Whether the game developers are willing to support that is a whole other thing."
With the way Xbox has structured things, that's not really up to a developer to decide, because even if the developer doesn't support it, the game will "just work" on the newer hardware. Even the Xbox One X wasn't fully backward compatible with the One S and the fat model, for example, lacking the fast ESRAM that helped speed up some rendering tasks on Xbox One, and instead emulating that through virtual memory as the GDDR5 memory of the Xbox One X was pretty much just as fast. Developers only needed to add support for the Xbox One X if they wanted the game 'Enhanced'. Otherwise, it would run just as it would on the original Xbox One, aside from obvious performance improvements due to the faster CPU and GPU.
@@halofreak1990 Great points but I also think licensing for consoles played a big role in why some games play on BC and some do not. My original "non Sigma" Ninja Gaiden trilogy games work on my Xbox One X but they are "not allowed" to be played on other devices via console streaming. Weird right? I ran into the same issues years ago on my PS3 when my digital versions of my PS1 Spyro trilogy games could play on my PS3 but they were "not allowed" to be played on my PS Vita. All seem more complicated than it needs to be. I am still sad my orginal Xbox game The Matrix, Path of Neo never became BC on Xbox One devices. I hope this gets better going forward so these games are not just lost when new hardware comes out.
Only reason they cared for back combat is cause they had no good new games so they had to sell old ones. Now they own ABK so they don't need to resort to that.
Never understood why you would buy a Series x for Back compat when PC will always do a better job. Console manufactures also have a shotty history with backwards compatibility too.
Sony removed backwards compatibility with the PS3.
@@mitchjames9350 And in doing so, they brought the console price down and clawed back their sales crown towards the end of the generation.
Man I really appreciate they did this, I recently played Dante's inferno and with auto HDR the game looks so good, it was a nice experience reviving my old days playing it.
That's a BIIIIIIIG blow. Everyone loves backward compatibility.
Would love FM3 and FM4 to be backwards compatible
Yes and blur too
Won't happen.
@@1989pulsar obviously
@@1989pulsar Because it would make modern Forza games look bad.
now that ms owns acitivision they could give 120 fps boost to all the older cods on series x/s. That would be awesome.
Resolution boost too. MW2 at a higher res is probably very good to look at.
You wouldn´t get 120 fps there sir...What even makes you think that?
Your netcode runs SLOWER on Xbox Series S/X. That means older Xbox 3650 ran Netcode faster.
Your graphics would be fast enough, sure. But anyy modern platform has SERVERE issues wth netcode-execution because of HIgh chip-latency. Which leads to lags in your online-multiplayer games.
Dropping BC, 4K upgrades, and FPS boosted games is a bummer. That was one of the biggest reasons I bought a Series X.
Same here.
Thankfully the last set of 76 backwards compatible games included many classics, (such as Otogi and Sacred 2) - but strangely, they're not listed in the back-compat section of the Xbox store.
Ah man I had forgotten all about that boosted resolution promise, that just never materialized.
One of the big reasons I bought an Xbox One X at the time was the promise of 4K visuals and One X Enhanced games. Same with the Series X but having games stuck at 720p and 900p isn't the greatest (looking at you Evil Within 1 & 2). Really dissapointing the Backwards Compatibility stuff became such a half-assed attempt this generation again.
Evil within 2 runs at 1800p….
Plenty of high profile games did receive One X enhancements. Games made before 2017 did get mostly left behind unless they were first-party though.
Lol one of the only reasons that made me want to buy a Series X
Xbox Series X/S can do emulation and you can use Xenia emulator to play 360 games
@@Retro_Gamer_89 Trashbox Series X/S has no games 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@Retro_Gamer_89 Xenia isn't that good, still a lot of work needed
@@Naffacakes98 True but better than nothing
@@Retro_Gamer_89Really? Is there a guide on how to? I would love to play the original Gears games.
Microsoft telling their fans that they will deliver the world, only to stop and hoping the fans forgot what they said later.
Wish pgr4 would of been done for backwards compatibility.
Yeah, real bummer the PGR titles didn't get backwards compatibility.
The resolution boost not happening sucks.
Ryse: Son of Rome would look insane in 4k
As someone with a HUGE original Xbox library it was disappointing to learn that Microsoft stopped the backwards compatibility program. Sure, they seemed to get the ESSENTIAL original Xbox games on the backwards compatibility program but there's just still so much more that will probably never see the light of day ever again unless you have the original hardware.
I am 100% all for game preservation.
Really want the Riddick games, Butcher Bay and Assault on Dark Athena, in a remaster or back-compat with some improved AA, frame rate, and resolution.
You would get worse fps, not more (e.g. 20-30 fps).
@@user-in3br2qs8x Pretty sure even the XBOX One X could run those games at 60fps. Your talking about an original XBOX game and a slightly updated 360 one. The Series X/S would have little problem doing 60fps on both those games.
@@jcfan1979 I wouldn´t be so sure about it.
Ubisoft once said the PS3/Xbox 360`s processors were faster than Xbox one/PS4. They said that in an interview with development of "Assassins Creed Unity". Only GPU is faster which is why "Ass Creed Unity" ran with GPU power not with cpu-power.
On newer Xboxes you have the same problem since your resolution is higher than on Xbox One/PS4. See? Your cpu-boost is lost if you run games at higher resolutions.
Man, Lost Odyssey in 4k/60 on a 65 Oled would be glorious 😅
They didn’t discontinue it… they just finished every title they were legally able to port over.
The main reason I went for the Series X was backwards compatibility (having a large physical xbox catalog), but with it being stopped I feel hard done by. Now add the lack of new great exclusives titles, I’m seriously wanting to jump over to the PS5 (and I missed the PS4 era of games!)
Their philosophy overall regarding physical media makes me think I should have backed Sony this gen myself.
There is still emulation on the Series S and X
@@mitchjames9350only if you enable dev mode. I guess $20 isn’t bad if it’s only a one time fee.
Come to switch. Nintendo is the only company left with any integrity. Look at Spider-Man 2 and the naughty dog leaks. Sony is just as trash as Xbox now. Unless we cut off their income stream they won’t learn.
@kynmasters8670 I enjoy my Switch but you need to slow your roll. Nintendo isn't without sin. They're a greed fueled company and integrity isn't something they're concerned about.
Many great games from Bethesda and ABK need to come back and I hope they add achievements for original Xbox. Many other classics from others still need to appear one day.
I want the old NFL Blitz franchise and NBA Streetball franchise to comeback! Im not into sports games but the over the top arcade feeling of those franchises were fun as hell!
player licensing
There’s a good amount of games on back compat but I wish the entire library became available. I got most of my OG Xbox and 360 games. Some I don’t expect to see again like NFL Blitz.
I could see Resolution Boost to 4k being much more popular on the next gen or even after that, for right now more frames seems like a decent compromise.
Problem with the OG Xbox games is a lot of the studios which made the games no longer exist so it’s not possible
Is that really a problem? Someone surely still has the rights, it's just a chore and an expense to figure out who exactly. These studios were owned by somebody or some entity.
@@SianaGearz blood wake is an example from the top of my head, the company who made the game collapsed in 08
@@manupasta That's potentially the easiest case. If not otherwise specified, the publisher ends up owning the intellectual property, in this case Microsoft. Since they're paying the development milestones and the publisher carries the commercial risk and thus the studio is doing work-for-hire. That's the difference between a distributor and a publisher, a distributor owns nothing and carries no risk, he just puts things on store shelves on your behalf; while a publisher carries the financial burden of game development and owns it in return. Occasionally there's confusion and a distributor gets named a publisher, but i surmise that's not the case here.
It's also a little uncommon but there is sometimes a contract clause that pours the intellectual property to the contracted studio that originally came up with it, if the publisher does nothing with it for 5 years. The company is suspended and no longer doing business, it no longer employs people or produces anything; but it lingers in a suspended form and still has a representative (Don Daglow) who is responsible for the intellectual property, and either holds it alone, or collectively with former shareholders, or collectively with the employees that worked there at the time. Worst case you have to hunt down all the copyright holders (people) individually or their estates, but it's hardly an entirely insurmountable challenge, just sometimes a little expensive.
Like just because a business goes poof, the intellectual property doesn't simply disappear.
If there was a bankruptcy, the intellectual property would have been sold off, then it would have had a new owner; but that doesn't appear to be the case, the company simply wound down.
@@manupastaI don't think BC requires any extra coding from the original developer.
@@pixeljauntvr7774 It doesn't, all Microsoft BC team needs is the retail disc data that they already have for every Xbox game ever published, since they're the ones that processed and printed all discs to begin with. But it's been said that it can be a rights issue whether they're allowed to add BC.
super sad we never got PGR on bc. It's also such a shame that we'll never be able to play the original Halo CE again at 30 frames on xbox because while 60 is gorgeous on Halo, it removes some of the clout you normally feel during combat by being just too smooth for how the game original ran in relation to combat. A real shame as MCC did at least used to run at 30 I recall and is just another frustrating thing from 343 that we can't choose. On pc you can in MCC
Agreed it's why I bought the whole PGR series and played them in 2020 on the 360. If the 360 BC went down as it's internet based I'd never be able to play them PGR 1&2 as I don't own an OG Xbox right now.
I have to be particular when Xbox collecting.
Backwards compatibility for the 360/Wii has been that way more so Xbox because of the particular list then a case of not owning a GameCube and the same case of owning a PS2 but not a PS1 so the 99% of titles then the 1% of 1/3 360 or less at what 51 OG Xbox on Xbox One/Series but half the OG Xbox library on 360.
The few percentage is always fine as it's usually most titles but a strict list gets more tricky to pick and choose. I got Big Red One on PS2 when I noticed it even when an OG Xbox version was there same as Mech warrior but I can't buy them because not supported I think on 360 or waiting for Activision to put them on Xbox One/Series with Microsoft.
Same with Prototype so I bought it and I can on 360 but waiting to test it on Xbox One/Series.
BC console internet or hardware based help me for sure.
I mean Wii U/3DS was all eshop so internet based as well besides Wii/DS hardware side.
But not as Master System Power Base Convertor or SNES/Genesis chips specific hardware wise either of compatibility.
Or Voodoo Vince code specific so had to wait till a remaster hence why it wasn't on 360 BC.
Not everyone has a collection of a Master Chief Collection/Spyro Reignited.
Some companies are dead, picky with licenses to use and care about other IPs more, source code isn't available or technical problems of course but still.
BC certainly is a very important aspect of many gamer's time so it deserves better attention that's for sure @@suntannedduck2388
@@suntannedduck2388Get an ogXbox and mod it. There's so many fantastic titles on that system.
MCC never ran at 30 fps. You're thinking of Halo Anniversary on 360
It's got to be licensing, profitability & lack of interest from most users. For every person like me who wants to play their old games & is willing to buy titles they missed out on digitally, the majority don't care & that makes it unprofitable. It's all about the money at the end of the day. Out of the Xbox & Xbox 360 games I own, less than 10% work on Series X!
I pray they bring it back even just for one more batch. Theres some Bethesda and ABK titles they should try to bring to BC and I think they should parter with Sega to bring more of their games to BC they have been buddy buddy lately and I think it would benefit both companies
They're dying, dude. Don't expect anything else from Xbox except to suck and die.
They don't make money from people reusing old discs that are no longer sold brand new. There's a reason why every single BC game is available to purchase digitally, unless it was delisted after its addition. And doing that requires licensing.
Plus it's not as if there are millions of diehards who absolutely refuse to buy the latest console unless backwards compatibility is improved. Sony and Nintendo repeatedly prove that.
At the end of the day, anyone who willingly bought the latest console despite the imperfect backwards compatibility literally gave MS/Sony/Nintendo the perfect excuse to NOT improve on it. They already got your money and they'll continue to get it with new games so why would they sink time and money into something with little to no ROI?
I got the One S because of BC.
Backwards compatibility was one of the main reasons I went SX this generation. I wish they kept working on it or at least those rumors of an official emulator came to fruition.
I'm ok with the backwards compatible catalog, the only thing I wish they wouldn't abandoned it's the fps boost program.
Some Xbox 360 games have Xbox One X graphical upgrades, but still run at 30 fps, cause they have no upgrades for the current consoles.
I remember them out right saying it was licensing. That's why physical media is important. And the pirates do a great service for us all. Even Adobe and other non gaming companies have used "pirated" copies themselves to bypass restrictions they put in place
Three exclusives for the original Xbox were Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Toejam and Earl 3 and jet Set Radio Future, also games like Shank 2 being on it but the original Shank isn’t not to mention the Arcade Tenchu title being available but Tenchu Z isn’t things like that don’t quite line up with the we can’t get the rights excuse/reason.
Really sad that MechAssault never got backwards compatibility.
Insane that they bring back Blinx 1 but not Blinx 2
There is little ROI on backwards compatibility and effort to get remaining licenses. Unless it's going to create incremental hardware sales which is hard to prove its not going to happen
Sony and Nintendo both do very well with limited or zero BC. Ultimately the silent majority is buying the latest console to play the latest games, which is what MS/Sony/Nintendo want anyway.
I...actually disagree...
and I actually have proof...on the Insomniac leak.
If you actually make a good enough ps5 series x version, the PORT to PC is not a dramatic problem.(and for the people who say "what about vram in 3000 series?".... THE 3000 SERIES SHOULD HAVE HAD 16GB OF VRAM, THEY DIDN'T DO IT BECAUSE OF AI, NOT COST).
4 millions for the ratchet port means that if you optimize it for a FAR LESSER HARDWARE you don't need to optimize it for a greater hardware, as the optimization has been made...
I think nintendo understood roi was low on this. Hence why they have the slow drip addition way of the nso sub. Right now, theres more nes and snes games on nso then og xbox on serirs bc program.
@@ct2651 Nintendo also has evidence from their own past gen consoles.
The DS's BC only supported GBA titles and didn't even support accessories like the link cable. That didn't stop the DS from being a runaway success - including the later DSi revision that completely ditched the GBA slot.
The 3DS's BC only supported DS titles - again, didn't hurt sales.
The SNES, N64, and GameCube all did not have any sort of BC - again, not a problem. I know Nintendo "lost" the Gen5 and Gen6 console wars but they still sold enough units to be profitable and to remain in the home console business.
@@javiergimenez40what does that have to do with what op is talking about
Couldn't find Condemned 2 and The Darkness 1 on Xbox store, did they delete because of this?
Delisted
Condemned 2 is delisted, The Darkness 1 however is still available on the Xbox digital store (same for The Darkness 2).
The only game I've kept my 360 around for is Riddick Assault on Dark Athena/Butcher Bay remaster. Most of the stuff I played made it into the BC program except for that. The digital version is still available to purchase on the 360 marketplace so it couldn't be a licensing issue.
A lot of xbox 360 games are being delisted even out of the backwards compatible category due to be remastered this generation. Apparently this gen is the one we will get a lot of 360 era remasters. Sadly we didn't get many og xbox remasters this gen or last gen. Most games from that gen are better than what we get now.
This is why emulators and software preservation is important.
@@mitchjames9350 agreed
What license is needed for me to play with my own discs? Or games I own digitally that aren’t backward compatible?
Let's be real. This was going to end eventually. They went hard with BC because they couldn't compete with 1st party titles. They had to find a differentiator from ps5 and bc was a nice one.
No. That simply isn´t "bc". BC is never about software (Emulation). But its about HARDWARE.
I think they did as much as they could do. I still have a hard modded (no mod chip, but solder bridge) OG Xbox and I knew they wouldn't back compat Obi-Wan or Kelly Slater Pro Surfer. The first one most people hated, and the latter had famous surfers and actual music tied to it (best surf game ever :)).
whats keeping them from dumping a xbox or xbox 360 emulator on the series systems? seems pretty damn simple
Because the bc-program is allready working like that...or did you think it`s magic?
@user-in3br2qs8x Dawg it doesn't work like that lmao. There are tons of games that function fine on modern emulators that there's no way of running on series x/s. I'm talking like an emulator app for Xbox and 360.
@@peacockjive6847 I don´t understand your problem. Emulation isn´t magic.
@@user-in3br2qs8x ESL? or are you trolling?
@@peacockjive6847 I dont undersatnad what you meant to say with your babbling.
maybe i´m not he first complaining about that on you. lol
You are speaking in riddles to me. Learn grammar and make easy to answer-questions. Don´t talk like a politician. Then you will get good answers.
So can i still play old games on the series X? Or is this for the future?
You can still play those which are on the back-compat list.
Merry Christmas from Norway 🥳 love your content 👍
Backwards Compatibility is what made the Xbox the superior console. I was bummed that it ended, and from what I read, it was mainly because of licensing issues and constraints. I really hope Microsoft bring back the Backwards Compatibility Program 😊.
1:38 well yes but no. There are plenty of 360 titles what in a dire need of 60FPS boost. Not to
Mention there are One titles which can also be boosted.
Shadow of Mordor, Dead Rising 3, etc
They can deal with Limited Run if they really want to see how things are going if they ever released the copy or paying the license really worth the effort. Then release a non limited version just like how Maddy Makes Games did with Celeste after seeing the success of the titles. I believe you pay copy per copy sold right? At least on physically released titles. As for digital make it available with limited download quota for an early birds.
The only thing I want MS to do is relist some delisted backwards compatible games on the Xbox store. I remember in 2021 on the 20 year anniversary of Xbox when they added that last batch of BC games, they had games like 50 Cent Blood On The Sand, Mortal Kombat 9, and FEAR 1 on the store but when you search them now it says you can't buy them.
I just want Thief Deadly Shadows, Clive Barker's Jericho & Condemned 2. How are you going to make the first one BC but not the second one? Smh
They released the third brothers in arms and not the first 2
@@mitchjames9350 smh makes zero fucking sense lol
What’s the best way to play blue dragoon and lost odyssey? It looks horrible on my 4K Oled TV.
I just love the Red Dead Redemption BC, it felt like a new game and holds up very well today.
Now that Microsoft is in business with Activision maybe Microsoft can actually do a Remake/Remaster/ Sequel of Metal Arms: Glitch In The System. Loved that game and I'm sure a modern audience would get on board with it. Anyway Happy Christmas DF 🎄🎁🍻
Well some games had licences specific to that 'generation' or a 'set' time - like Licenced Cars and Manufacturers in racing games, Licensed music by Famous Artists in soundtracks etc etc and of course, many of the Studios, the Publishers, the IP holders etc are gone or 'split up' and need 'everyone' to let MS bring them to BC.
There are a LOT of Activision Games too that I can't see coming to Backwards Compatibility - due to Licensing issues. Treyarch's James Bond or Spider-Man games probably won't and I don't think they can bring Transformers to BC either. Activision certainly had a fair few 'Licensed' games - inc Tony Hawkes which would likely require him to 'agree' to it. They can't 'sell' a game and make money from it if the owners of Brands, Music, their name/identity (and other real world Characters that maybe in games) etc aren't getting their cut (due to expired Licences) and MS isn't going to spend a LOT of Money to renew Licences so that the 'few' that still own those can still play those - all the BC games are also 'Store' games so you can still 'buy' those games Digitally....
Why is all that a problem? The game is already sold as hardcopy and is not selling any new copies.
Yes that is tricky. I know I cant find myself going back to playing old games. Even the RETRO packs I might play a few times and never touch them again. Though I know several people who love playing retro games. Is it worth puting the time and money into? Not a big deal to me but Im sure there are many people it will be.
So are we saying that all of my back-compat games I have on my HDD are no longer functional, or they're just ending future support for more game?
Just ended support.
I have games from the original Xbox and 360 where some you can transfer, some you can not.....but when you go to the store the games there and have to purchased it again. Why?
The games are still available for purchase in case you want a fully digital version. But, (as far as my experience goes), if you have the disc, you don't need to do that in order to play.
Im happy with the BC, the only title i missing is Sega Rally 2007.
I think a large element of it that's not as obvious is the sheer cost of testing all of the titles involved. They can't just write some code and say that everything is backwards compatible, they have to test it all extensively, which is extremely expensive.
I expect every og Xbox game to be playable and barely NOW I find out they completely stopped 😔
Xbox One enhancements on Series made sense but too many after a while and too much work/licensing I assume. First party at least then third party. But OG/360. Yeah. Licensing for sure of dead companies, source code, remakes instead, picky companies & more. Bethesda had some later after the program I think. Thing is I hope OG Xbox on 360 support stays it's internet based as well as Xbox One/Series and it has half the library. Not 51 or so. Yet 1/3 360 on One/Series.
The eshop going is one thing but BC is one I never want to hear goes down on 360. It's not hardware based like Nintendo or Sony do. Those updates for 360/internet connection matter which is risky future possibilities even if possible technologies to go about things.
Tech problems sure because Voodoo Vince had to be remastered they couldn't on 360 put it for backwards compatibility due to special code and makes sense. Some games for backwards compatibility use the hardware in certain ways on Master System to Power Base Convertor on Genesis/Mega Drive.
Special chips on SNES/Genesis make sense why even fan emulators struggle with those games or did for a time.
So some code or use of the hardware can be in certain eras.
Hang on Xbox series x the newest Xbox is no longer backwards compatible at all? Also are you still able to make an emulator out of it? I own ps5 and these were the two biggest reasons I'd want to purchase one
No. That's not it at all. They just stopped the programme that was adding 'extra' BC games.
Lol no, Series X/S is still back compat with the existing games that are available. They just mean that they don't add anymore games like they used to. Whatever you see on the Xbox store is what you get, you can also use your discs you own as well but look up the available back compat games first.
@@wastelandwanderer2693 thanks for the help any experience with the emulation
Does this mean you can no longer play the games that were already back compact? Or they are no longer expanding the list beyond of the ones that are already there?
Commenting for answer because if it's ending I can't cry too hard but if updating my stupid mini-fridge removes features, I can live without more Internet usage
Games that were made compatible are still playable. They're just not adding more.
It stinks that it has been discontinued. Last gen I went with Xbox because of the backwards compatibility. At least the library of playable games, 360 in particular, is pretty large. I would love to see your return though.
I wonder since Microsoft now owns Activision Blizzard will we see more backwards compatibility games, like call of duty classic , Singularity
Maybe proper Xbox ports of Spyro: Enter the Dragonfly and The Legend of Spyro: The Eternal Night, both which previously never released on Xbox?
PC gamers: What backwards compatibility?
The world deserves an OG XBox remaster or back-compat of Evil Dead: Fistful of Boomstick & Regeneration
I wish the older games were more supported, especially on PlayStation. 90% of what I play on Xbox One are 360 games
But will we still have access to what we already have installed on our systems?
I need the Tony Hawk games to made backwards compatible now that Microsoft owns Activision.
It's the music in them games that are the problem, I don't think you will see them unfortunately unless they remake them.
They need to bring the backwards compatibility program back now that Sega has relisted Sonic 06 on the 360 marketplace
You wouldn´t get 60 fps for Sonic 06 on any modern hardware. Most likely not even close to...as your latency of modern chips is much worse than it was on Xbox 360/PS3.
and that is assuming that game even ran at 60 fps on the older Xboxes/Playstations.
Because they saw the amount of sheer robbery a full priced lousy remake of old GTA games does and said, we'll get in the "remake" business at full price and not in the back compat business at a fraction of the price. Simple. They legit announced it straight after the GTA Trilogy came out LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
This implies Sega didn’t want to license Sonic Heroes, Shadow the hedgehog and 06 because other than Sega simply not wanting to I don’t see why they’re not on the backwards compatible list
I mean could you blame them? Those titles are still laughed at to this day. It damaged their brand.
They could do emulation and play the discs with out any licensing issues. the issue is they don't make any money out of that.
There is also maybe the time and money and optimization and hardware needed to get good general emulation rather than working on effectively porting specific multiple older titles.
I mean, even the best emulators are still worked on years after a console's relevance has ended at times.
Nah, that's how 360 emulation worked and it was bad due to that.
The benefit of the X1 /XSX BC is that it handles each game individually and why the benefits for some of them are phenomenal like Ninja Gaiden, Ninja Gaiden II at 4K 60fps.
@@CZcamsCensorsif you’re referring to the 360’s backwards compatibility with OG Xbox games, that’s because the 360 wasn’t really powerful enough for that undertaking. It’s a small miracle it even happened at all considering the close age and specs, and differing architecture between the two platforms. It’s like if Sega attempted for the Dreamcast to have BC with the Saturn via pure emulation.
The Series X however, while I’m not saying it would be as simple as flicking a switch, absolutely does have the resources in theory to emulate any OG Xbox or 360 game to stock hardware level or better.
@@strykah92If the Xbox 360 can run ESPN NFL 2K5 and the Tony Hawk games off disc, there's absolutely no reason why the Series X can't.
@@DP12321 I mean, I can think of reasons why it can't, some more reasonable than others.
Okay I’m confused. There’s clearly backwards compatibility available on the current hardware, I’ve been using it the last few weeks. So what is the issue here exactly?
It’s about growing the library
@@stevesmith1383 ah, I see. Yeah, there’s games that should be backwards compatible but aren’t. Warhammer Space Marine would be nice since the sequel is coming this year.