Forza Motorsport's RT Controversy: Misleading Marketing?
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- čas přidán 8. 07. 2024
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They PURPOSEFULLY slowed down the preview footage to say hey, look at our amazing RT and graphics quality! There was so much focus on it then the examination of it after it is ripped out or reduced so badly for the PC version deserves much negative attention. You cannot blatantly emphasise features in marketing so heavily then quietly take them all away in the final version and not get backlash for it, no matter the game, no matter the publisher.
For whatever reason MS refuses to let there games look as best as possible on stronger systems (PC). I feel this is the reason Starfield is 30 fps on console because the S model can not run it higher but i bet the X can but they want both to be the same.
@@jcaashby3 They prioritized the Xbox versions. No question. Even with this, the Series S version looks incredibly poor. There is little doubt that if the PC version is amply optimized then high end configurations can do the effects in the preview videos. An RTX4080 is easily more than twice as fast as Series X, not that you would notice in this game. There appears to be plenty of low hanging fruit to improve the performance of the PC version that has not been taken as DF mentioned. For example the CPU threading is poor, and for some reason DLSS is badly implemented, it barely boosts the framerate. Two areas that could deliver significant performance gains, especially regards ray tracing. If they do not fix these and get the quality out of this game engine in the next few months then people should start to be fired because I don't know what exactly this massive team at Turn 10 has been doing all these years.
Even FH4(2018) looks better than FM8.
It’s like Ubisoft with watchdogs all over again
"built from the ground up". That was a lie.
"We used colorimeters to make the paint look real" and yet somehow colors look worse than previous Forza's.
I'm glad you mention FM gamma, contrast, brightness issues, something is really wrong, FM looks washed out and night/rain races way too bright
Yeah, there’s something wrong.
Game devs/studios have to stop "promising"/promoting games saying it has one thing and has another when it comes out.
Exactly better being honest and showing a lower target that you may end up making something even better than, beats under delivering all the time
Lessons for Forza, don't make a lot of teasers and focus on making the game
True I wonder what hellblade 2 actually going to look like
Everyone: Stop overpromising future releases!
Publishers: Just do it
Thanks, Nike...
Meanwhile FROM doing Sekiro, Elden Ring, Armored Core 6. All under-promised, over-delivered, and *complete on release*. Wonder what a contemporary simcade racing game from a studio with their m.o. would be like.
GT7 shines despite being a cross gen game while FM8 is not cross gen so why it didnt deliver how its supposed?
I was genuinely surprised to find FM8 won't even install on my Xbox One X while FM7 was advertised as the game made 'FOR' One X.. way to support the console for ONE whole title :P
exactly, there are aspects of GT7 even on PS4 Pro that run better than FM.
The funny thing is I find raytraced reflections to be entirely unrealistic in cars which is why I'm shocked that DF loved the original trailer. Cars do not have mirrored finish. The doors and hoods are not mirrors. No matter how high quality a paint job is on a car and no matter how much wax you apply to the paint, the reflection of a car on that paint will not look like a mirror reflection. There will be times that the reflection will be amazing on great paint jobs, but it will never look like a mirror reflection. It's much different than a situation like Spider-Man where you look at the reflections in the building GLASS and expect it to look like a mirror reflection. car bodies are not made of glass.
I much prefer the reflections on gt7, still ray traced but they but so much effort in recreating car paint, the materials are much more rough but they look far more realistic, forza cars look like they have no fresnel effect and there’s no depth to the paint, beautifully layered colors like Mazdas soul red just look flat.
😂 And it makes me wonder why they aren't calling the preview footage false marketing because of THAT, instead of it simply not being in the game. Maybe they took it out specifically because its not realistic folks..
They are there. Its just not consistent with different views
@jibronigibironi8959
They advertised that the reflections were all mirror. The problem is they lied about the scope. Nothing outside of the small circle around the car actually uses rt.
You are right. Not everybody gets the experience of detailing cars and they usually do not pay much attention to car paint reflections. All in all these RT tech talks ain't that important for playing games. How you feel and immerse in a game visually is more of a aesthetic setting issue.
When the PBR of the paint and glass is not impressive in forza 8 at all, no amount of raytracing helps it anyways. Game seriously lacks color depth as well just doesn't pop at all even on a oled with hdr it looks washed out with lifted colors.
Yes it looks really surprisingly bad.. Tried it tonight. Wonder what really happened here..?
"Microfacet BRDF material", they said. I love how they're using such fancy marketing jargon to describe the technique other competitor i.e. Polyphony Digital **also** used to render multilayer paint coats on their own in-game vehicle assets. It goes to show how they had to use sweet marketing promises to hide the fact that they were already unable to deliver something that's supposed to be the franchise standard. It's an indirect admission.
I think the car colors are actual oversaturated and the reflections and lighting are bad
It all boils down to a few big mistakes that both Turn 10 and Microsoft had made a few years prior to the game's release: a very poor marketing/PR strategy and the studio's inability to set a modest and realistic/accurate expectation to the game's supposed target render.
It seems you did not play sony games
@acevedoaandres
Plenty of case where the final products exceed the first trailers. The rt in forza literally ceases to be rt after a few feet from the car. And that every ai car on the track has far less detail than the player car. This isn't you bitching about a puddle with cube map reflections.
@@acevedoaandres
And no one told T10 to claim that this was built from the ground up and the most technically advanced racing game on the market.
@@acevedoaandres😂😂 cry more
@@aaronsmith7143 yeah there's deceiving and then there's lying.
A game suffering from downgrades is par for the course, but Turn10 didn't do just that.
They literally made some bold statements about the game and said somethings that are straight up not true
If only the problem was just about the downgrade
Publishers should be taught one of the basics in Marketing: never overpromise and then underdeliver. In some cases, it's better to tone down initial presentations to the client on purpose, and then blow their socks off with the final presentation because you over-delivered on their expectations. But the truth is, you just managed their expectations in such a way that made it possible to smash what they were expecting. Too much hype from the beginning can come back to bite you because even a good product can be seen as a failure because impossible standards were set right at the beginning.
These days the only marketing I trust is a publisher / developer's recent track record - and even that with a big grain of salt. I can only think of one with a track record that's clean, and it isn't Turn10 or Microsoft - or even CDPR.
The graphics stuff is whatever. The actual issue is how ass the progression is in this game.
You mean you have to put in some effort 😂
I like the progression, but I think it needs to be 2 to 3 times faster, finishing one builders cup should max out the car PERIOD, instead it's only 25 levels IF you do the practice laps
It’s not a bad idea but it should either have been by manufacturer not a single car or have been tuned to progress faster. It takes forever.
@@rewpertcone8243Wait, can we skip practice?
I'm not minding the progression, but the carreer itself is trash. It's just a list of events. There's no real engagement to be had outside of the race itself. You feel like you're just going through the motions. Also when your car is finally getting nice to drive, you're forced to swap to another one and start from scratch. Pretty annoying.
Ray Tracing downgrade and trackside details missing were my biggest peeves, followed by weird performance and visual issues. I had issues with the Fog and some of the direction they went for the look of certain tracks didn't translate well in the final game. Overall, I think the game still looks and works as expected, but the downgrades are noticeable. Such a shame. I still remember the first teaser and it looked absolutely mind-blowing.
I think its safe to say we'll see a raft of visual enhancements as Forza moves forward on both Xbox and PC.
my 4090 disagrees
@@glenmclyou saying you're not getting dogshit reflections in the garage on max settings? Because I sure am.
@@glenmclmy 4080 does. I've maxed out every setting
right everyone remeber the frist marbles demo on4k a offical nvida demo hardware now abotu 4k hardwarefrom 2020... was at 30 fps.. high high end hardware on the bf5 non raytacing is at 2k ulktra 90+ fps... the demo for ray racing was in slow motion looking at cars and window... not what a gamer would do or experiance... reviews were meh at 1080p 60 fps on highe end hardare from several million sub channels... the biggest pet peeve is a poor/stupid person crying that a even on 1000... now gpu one part of a pc in2023 is ignorean t to the pc market from 2020 or the video nvida was proude to show on a dvice 4-8x the cost of ppl current device showing new tech they could only do 30 fps...
No amount of RT can make forza's 2011 car models look good in 2023
100% agree. This may sound weird to say, but even the Crew Motorfest car models look sharper than this game.
Microsoft should reign in on their devs overpromising. Their bigger titles have tended to go through this pattern for years.
43% on Steam. I'm just gonna keep emulating FM4 ... the goat
Yep. Forza peaked with MS4. Hell, the entire simcade genre peaked with MS4.
Your missing out. Been playing a few days now and a great simulation racer.
The thing is they didn't have to lie. If they just said how it was people would have still got the game.
This was the game to bring back those who left during the Xbox one period of the game. We all got fed up over the graphics talk, yet the graphics aren't to shout about.
Additionally Assetto Corsa 2 is on the horizon ( I guess that's a pun). Kunos are famous for letting the fans run wild with their games. And I think the fight is now Assetto Corsa Vs grand turismo. Forza just shot themselves in the foot.
Just watch Rory Alexander "EERIEISSSS" on yt, a full time sim racer of GT7 & Forza Motorsport (2023 GT world series winner) latest video here called 'Forza Motorsport's online is a breath of fresh air..."
Their whole marketing has been lying about the game, they have said "built from the ground up" so many times, turns out none of the game has been built from the ground up.
You sure can built things from the ground up... But that also means you can make things better... or worse.@@DriftNick
@@Deliveredmean42 When the thing they said was built from the ground up has the same issues as the last game then they either recreated those issues or they lied about it being built from the ground up.
Assetto corsa isn't really in the same category as grand Turismo.
While the terms are still loosely defined, AC is pure simulator, while gran turismo is still simcade. High end simcade, yes, but still simcade.
AC is competing with Iracing. GT competes with forza, etc.
Ive said this for a number of releases. why show us what we could have had? of course we are gonna be pissed. If we had never known what could have been, we would have been signing the game's praises, forza looks phenomenal we would have enjoyed it (once the bugs and issues got ironed out) and we would have went on with our lives. But showcasing and promising all that and then not delivering? just why!
I wonder if they thought everybody was going to buy 4090's, then they realized that wasn't going to happen and then they had to scale things down.
What I don’t quite understand is how Digital Foundry didn’t see any of this coming and posted their video “Inside the new Forza” 4 weeks ago as is, sounding quite optimistic and awe stricken. We should all know better by know, since the Cyberpunkgate in 2020 there have been quite a few similar cases…
DF doesn't make any definitive judgments about prerelease footage because said footage can often be alpha/beta/unfinished quality. Simple as that.
@@sofaking1180 also I'm pretty sure that video was done in collaboration with Turn10. It's meant to just show the tech under the hood.
Not judge the product in of itself
Bc theyre paid
Can we all admit that Microsoft and Xbox team have fubarred the ray tracing on Xbox?!?! One of the key selling points of the Series X and not even their own triple A, 1st party title, can hit the target!! Why aren't we holding Phil Spencer accountable for what's happening under his watch?!?!
Both Sony and Microsoft SEVERELY oversold ray tracing this generation. An overrated technique for how demanding it is…
Blame AMD, not Microsoft or Sony. This is the result of their duopoly.
@@Incubusnut have you not seen spider man 2? Sony backed up their i/o and rt at 60fps Microsoft is the one who really lied. Sony is in a much better state than Microsoft.
Definitely less RT on current Gen then there should be, but if we compare PlayStation exclusives to Xbox exclusives, why do the Sony exclusive, generally show more RT than Xbox exclusives?? If you don't want to compare across all exclusives just compare Gran Turismo to Forza. Both car games looking for high fidelity driving experience. Did Gran Turismo use bull shotted graphics to try and sell itself??
Because some xbox gamers are so gullible. they will literally look past all of the ruined ips and broken promises regarding power and performance and too puzzy to hold anyone accountable its just sad and pathetic to be an Xbox gamer now i feel sorry for them.
Tried it tonight on Series S. Looks much worse than any of the old versions imo just looks really soft and pretty washed out too 😢
SX looks washed out as well. Sharpness fluctuates for me.
@@DV-ou1yu Yes the resolution seems extremely variable on the XSX. The only mode that's reliably high resolution seems to be "Performance", the one without RT. It's crisp as hell.
@@Totone56 I use the performance mode and it's not crisp to me. Starfield and FH5 (performance) look crisp to me. Going back and forth between between GT7 and FM really shows non-crisp FM is...im my personal experience
Trailer: IMAX graphics
Game: Clay looking cars
I could care less about raytracing, usually there are so many restrictions that it's not even worth it. I'm disappointed that trackside detail basically completely got demolished, car models are outdated, the lighting looks much worse than GT7 which uses a more standard GI model, and all their promises about 3D foliage isn't true either. There are lots of 2D trees mixed in on many tracks... just like GT7, which also has a mix of 3D and 2D foliage lol. For 6 years of development, there's a lot of disappointment. It doesn't feel like a finished game. The career mode has no effort put into it, the progression system is grindy and the full auto assist makes it stupid to begin with. The car and environmental details also don't look that impressive, and we still don't have anything close to DriveClub in weather simulation or lighting, in this case.
And the game’s targeted specifically for next gen consoles and GT7 is a cross gen game
@@gaminghedgehog6384 and that cross gen game wasnt even able to put in any kind of RT during gameplay
@@MrVLXX well the next gen wasn't either, the RT in gameplay they have is laughable
Just watch Rory Alexander "EERIEISSSS" on yt, a full time sim racer of GT7 & Forza Motorsport (2023 GT world series winner) latest video here called 'Forza Motorsport's online is a breath of fresh air..."
You guys need to stop bringing an GT7 in to this conversation, Sony said they were going to try to deliver the best looking game, They were not talking about outside foliage away from the track, that's a Microsoft thing. The conversation is about what they promise, GT7 didn't promise you any of this.
Basic marketing 101: You always underpromise and then overdeliver, not the other way around!
During gameplay there are times I feel like I am driving in a beautiful Ferrari and then I spot the "made in china" sticker
as the whole game engine coughs, splutters and explodes, seemingly at random intervals. I am talking 1440/120fps+ dropping to what looks like 540/24fps at anything outside a 10 metre radius of my car...and DLSS (In my case DLAA) keeps swapping itself to FSR on an RTX 4070. I mean...come on Forza!! Give us a patch already!!
and NO I am not upscaling or using any type of dynamic render resolution whatsoever, apparently.
how does it swap to fsr? i want to try FSR but that's not even an option the game shows to me with an rtx 4080
@@GraveUypo For me the trigger seems to be going back from a race to the Forzavista (homepage) then if I swap cars, go in to upgrades or tunes. When I come out my GPU is pegged at 99% and when I look DLSS/AA is gone and FSR is there. It fixes itself on restart but it is damn annoying as I am constantly swapping cars and parts throughout a session (and need to restart every time I do).
Are you on mobile? I thought it was my 4060 getting throttled even though thermals are fine? Havent had happen on 3080
@@sawsebawse2000 No, full ATX
When will Turn 10 fix the cube map reflections, SSR and the 16xAF?
Yeah 2x AF is so early 7th-gen.
Can't wait to be disappointed when they finally give us Fable real gameplay and it looks nothing like what they showed so far...
Man...
I have more faith in Playground games than most other Xbox developpers, so we'll see....
Why no one is talking about flat look in the cars paint its disturbing me i cant get over it and the presentation of cars in the show room is always half a car in the light half in the shadows it's so wired i have a lot of problem with the game looks the car models the wheels rendering the materials i am really disappointed 😞
I'm increasingly more curious about what Kunos are cooking up for "Assetto 2" next year, if not later. - They might be more about simulation than "graffix" (even though their two major installments look pretty great) and they might not be using ray-tracing, though it is possible considering how long they're taking. - That said, it is expected that it's a significant upgrade, as the first two games aren't that dissimilar. - I just hope they won't go the way of "Project Cars", or at least the third installment more specifically. Which if you don't know went more "arcade", almost NFS-like, probably because they were bought up by Codemasters, which (after "PC3") in itself was bought up by EA, which in turn is probably bad news for Codies-racers. - But Kunos is still this small Italian studio, probably still consisting of less than a hundred people, under the Italian publisher 505, and Kunos is so serious about their work that their studio is actually on the grounds of a circuit. - So I feel like they're still the racing-studio to look out for and kinda feel like "Assetto 2" might take everyone by surprise. - It's just the opposite of how a big brand like Xbox over-markets a brand like Forza, and then some smaller and quieter project comes along and just gets all the attention. - This keeps happening over and over and over, so that's my prediction.
They're lucky it's a motorsport game so a lot of people won't see this. But this is like Ubisoft era last gen f*ckery with misleading gameplay previews.
Anyone notice some car interior gauges are blurry. Like the 1990 Mercury #15 Radar Cougar XR-7. Playing on the Series X.
Final Fantasy XVI initial trailer vs launch is the exact opposite of this situation
This was an interesting video as the preview footage was way different to what we got at release. There also was not a day 1 patch either. I have checked for updates within the Xbox app and unless I'm missing something, the last update was on the 3rd of October.
every time I look for reflections while driving I crash.
I experienced a really odd graphical glitch with driving on a foggy track where it was glitching in and out trying to render the fog and details around it
Are you on Nvidia or AMD?
@zacthegamer6145 oops, forgot to mention that it was on the seriesx
I've played it on steam deck, series X, a desktop with a rtx 4080 and a laptop with an rtx 2070. so far, i've only seen graphical glitches on the laptop.
but then again, i basically only tested all these versions. I've played mostly on the rtx 4080, and a little on the series x too (honestly i don't mind this version at all. i don't feel a whole lot of downgrade when i go from my pc to the xbox)
@@Tyler-hs9euI did notice that cars in rear view mirror show through the fog which must be a bug
Does this game support direct storage or are we still with only game that supports that so far?
I got the feeling that this game was gonna be a problem after all the stuff i was hearing about forza horizon 5.
The main issue with the game for me is that trees barely move. A few select trees move very slightly in certain tracks but there are entire tracks with totally static rows of identical palm trees and it sticks out like a sore thumb and kinda poops on the on track action. Most important things for me are the tree movement and the reflections but they focused on having 3d crowds which you do not see are even 3d from the distance you race at. I'd have taken fuller 2d crowds in exchange for movement on all trees and the pre release reflections.
Are you trolling? 😂 I haven't even been looking at trees while racing in cockpit view
@@mikeuk666yeah idk what he's on about. of everything he could have an issue with the trees don't move enough?
Wow. if you need to go to that level of nitpick to find the game's main issue, i guess it must be a neigh perfect game, huh?
This is what happens when a team's budget is based on Gamepass... They have no idea how much actual money the team will make based on sales... How can you budget under such scenarios??? I'm actually more shocked that it doesn't feel like a freemium game... I was expecting MUCH worse...
I'd still take this over absolutely No games on Sony's side.
@@Cricis11700 Oh I'm fine with it for right now, and I'm enjoying it, finished 2 full curuits... My point was just that there is a severe lack of content... Requiring you to do a practice race for EVERY single race, is definitely a way to pad out the length... I really do wish we could opt out of practice races, for maybe a default back of the grid starting position, but I see what they are going for... This game is also meant to be constantly upgraded with new content... But it is obvious that this wasn't worked on by a huge team like the old days... But I'm cautiously optimistic...
@@Beavernator you can opt out by going to the quit option on the pause screen and selecting "skip practice" same for when you want to restart a race.
@@Beavernator no yeah I agree with you, I kind of hate that you are required to grind out the game for part upgrades, I just want to be able to buy parts again, and the only thing that I really do like is the physics they really did an amazing job with that.
If you understood the umbrella they have with Ms ...you'd know that is bullshit ,trillion dollar company and you say gamepass budget .....-IQ award
Also playing at 4k-120hz crashes loads when using multiplayer menus at 60fps.
The ridiculous pop in of foliage for the newest Forza Horizon was supposedly low-hanging fruit that they'd fix. All this time later - nothing.
on pc that game has almost zero pop-in at max settings.
A shame that it doesn't run smooth as butter like FH5 does... For some reason it runs the smoothest (and perhaps less surprisingly) looks the best on Ultra settings - I have an AMD Ryzen 7 5700x and an RTX 4070 - running on Ultrawide 1440p
Runs smooth on series x
probably because you are cpu bottlenecked at anything under ultra. usually stutters and tearing happen more with a cpu bottleneck
Run it on HIGH with Ultra car models. You'll get 144fps and flawless frame rates.
Runs buttery smooth on seriesx but looks 10x better on PC 4070Ti. Both solid 4k 60fps. Ultra on PC is gorgeous.
Five years to make this crap. And still no E D C B A Multiplayer lobbies!
Remember the Pathracing Minecraft demo?
Did that arrive yet?
i had my jaws dropped when i saw the footage of FM7 qatar gameplay 6 years ago, sadly the same thing didnt happened again with current forza motorsport even though seriex X its almost 3 times more powerful than one X
the auto-settings thing Alex mentioned sounds *kind of* like what the Geforce experience launcher tries to do
God I hate that, I avoid GeForce experience everytime I update drivers, always pushing us to install it
@@CJW0056I like it for the filters and the ability to record footage. You don't need to let it run so-called "optimizations" on any games.
Couldn't they at least provide these ray tracing features for PC players?
No pc players are Not priority so deal with it.
so many technical issues with this game. Going to be patch after to patch to get anywhere close to what we were promised. There's been a huge drop off of people playing it after the big debut.
Honestly ? On console, getting rid of RT Reflections (because their quality and usage probably doesn't justify the performance impact), keeping the RTAO (because of the sheer impact it has on car interiors), and using the added headroom to stuff more detail on track or have a higher dynamic resolution would be perfect.
1:43 No John, they did not. They did cut features, that would have cost 3% of the performance worth, that they should reduce the resolution for instead.
I think Ms is prioritizing Horizon over Motorsport. Motorsport didn’t have as much marketing or as big a launch as H5. I play Fh5 everyday and that game is still packed with players. I think in Microsoft’s eyes with Horizon being the more popular franchise attention has shifted to that game as is can be easily monetized and is more popular and approachable than Motorsport all things that make it a perfect fit for Gamepass.
'Footage may not be representaive of final product'.
These aren't a few missteps in a game's dev cycle. Microsoft and Turn 10 used an old tactic that goes as far back as PS1. They misrepresented what the game was going to support to build hype and generate pre orders. Similar to years passed, the final product doesn't deliver. But what's more worrying is that the sad state of Forza Motorsport is yet another example of poor production by too many Microsoft game studios that truly became clear going back as far as the launch of XBox 1. Forza Motorsport is a glitchy, buggy mess and there was no way a $500 console was going to support ray tracing fidelity that's equal or greater than what's possible on a $3000 gaming PC. To even expect that is insane.
Microsoft and its partners simply aren't releasing polished games on average and too many people continue to make excuses for it. Forza is the latest example but Starfield isn't the game changer epic that Microsoft portrays it to be. Redfall is a disgrace. Halo Infinite is a broken shell of what it should it have been. Speaking of Halo, How do you screw THAT up?
Not to mentioned they clearly lied about that “built from the ground up”
They could even drop the replays down to like 24fps and make them look like a movie
I hope the xbox and dev team are watching this video and feel bad about misleading us so bad with these trailers. It's one of the worst downgrades in the last 10 years for sure. If the driving wouldn't be as good as it is, this game would be an absolute disaster.
Pony talking, the gratest downgrades are by sony by a longshot
@@acevedoaandresi don't even have a PS5, i got a Series X and a PC but nice try, darling. 🤦🏻♂️
@@acevedoaandres huh? didn't you watch the video? they literally said RT in GT7 is way more advanced than the RT in forza which is why it's not in game in GT7, so..... what downgrade?
One of the worst downgrades in the last 10 years? Not at all, i probably wouldn't even have noticed how reflective the car is or isn't if it wasn't for DF looking at stuff with a 400% zoom
This is nowhere near Ubisoft levels
@@adrianhosein7698 Such a weird argument to make, GT7s raytracing is better and so good that it isn't even in the actual game, and how do i benefit from that better RT during gameplay then?
PC RT on Forza is an absolute disappointment for sure. There's no reason it should be as limited as it is.
They committed Ubisoft-levels of bait & switch
Microsoft always overpromise and under deliver
All talk, no substance. I'd much rather a company shut up, and deliver a quality product
I have everything on max settings and the cars' "RT" reflections look like garbage in the garage. The garage... where you have nothing but a single car being showcased in detail. Games from over a decade ago, using fake reflections, look so much better it's not even close. Also, as with previous titles, wheel textures are still disappearing while driving. These need to be fixed in a patch ASAP.
Will you have a Spider-Man 2 Ray Tracing video out soon?
The problem IMO is MS wants parody across the X S and PC. Which in my opinion is a huge mistake. It seems to be a classic case of the lowest speced system (The S model) holding the game back because MS wants the game to play similar on every system. And as a PC player this sucks because we know Forza can look better but MS chose not to let the PC look substantially better.
That is simply not the case. FH5 looks MUCH better on pc at max settings than it does on xbox.
*Parity
Couldn't care less about tay tracing but it's nice to see other car reflections in replays so it's a cool little bell for replays. I'm usually eyes forward when racing and not looking at track detail either. Marketing trailers always show target footage. Never believe them or take them as an indication of final quality- not these days. It's been this way for many years so this shouldn't even be a discussion at this point.
the shadow pop in is also horrible.
Though I might regret trading my series x for PS5 around this time of years because of this game and starfield (not my kinda game)
But nope. No regrets. It's MS/Xbox being exactly who many think they are.
It is more than possible to create the same look as RTX with existing shaders. Until RTX provides the same frame rate without DLSS as it would with classic shaders, RTX is little more than a tech demo.
Proper RT is a long way off yet
Not on PC it isnt.
@@Wobbothe3rd by proper, I mean every light source. It's good on PC yes, but a long way from realising actual light and its behaviour
Everybody Forgot Forza Motorsport 7 how great looks without RT ?
I thought that when it launched, but after playing forza horizon 4 & 5, i went back to it and thought it looked awful. This might have suffered a ton of downgrades and have terrible post processing, but it still looks miles better than fm7
Its going to be a trend now on xbox 1st party games because of gamepass
More so series s
Its funny i just got a new gaming rig, I've been diving into my back catalog playing allot of games with RT patches, just to feel like I'm getting my investment worth. Feel like I am waiting on blockbuster hits, only cyberpunk has really taken advantage of the hardware, was really looking forward to this one. Other than DLSS I feel like I'm waiting to use my new shinny gpu.
welcome back John!! you were missed, buddy
Maybe its just me but i swear FM7 looks better. (Played them both back to back.) even at 30fps visual mode i still think FM7 looks better.
FM is a really fun game, the online racing really shines. but i feel like i’m being limited by xbox consoles as someone with a high end pc
Yes you are. I have the game on series x and PC. It looks way better on PC (4070Ti)
on ultra setting.
Would not look like that on any decent LCD that might be used for the final mastering of the image by such a large production.
They almost pulled an E3 Watch Dogs on us 😂
Life ain't easy in the "hood mode". No? I'll show myself out.
That is called lying ,and false marketing.
Could you use RT math in the background to place cube maps on the fly as accurate as possible and without those occlusion artifacts?
Sounds so simple it might just work.
Surprised there's not many comments about abysmal performance. With a 5600x/3080 I'm getting around 30-40 fps at 1440p high...
How are you managing that? My laptop 10750H + rtx 2070 gets 60fps at 1440p medium + dlss balanced, or 60fps at 1080p high + dlss quality. try turning the USELESS GARBAGE that is RT off. you shoudl be getting ~80 fps with that configuration
I’m really enjoying the game… but the graphics are not contributing to that at all. I feel like my car always looks blurry anywhere there are reflections.
So how many millions of views would get a GT7 vs Forza video - especially comparing 120 fps mode of GT7 vs 30 fps graphical mode on X and S... too bad Forza doesn't have Nordschleife track but pick some other with most of demanding detail around the track (although not as long).
Just watch Rory Alexander "EERIEISSSS" on yt, a full time sim racer of GT7 & Forza Motorsport (2023 GT world series winner) who is enjoying Forza Motorsport
@@mikeuk666 he a racing content creator, as an aspiring influencer it would be great for him to attract xbox players to his chanel - and it's working, here you are... I asked for professional technical comparison and you are pushing a racing content creator
@@phaedrussocrates7636it's a racing simulation.... I drive on circuits myself and am impressed with it playingdo far..... next
Also why would you even play in 30fps mode or performance rt mode as its not 4k.....?
@@mikeuk666 Again...... I asked for tech comparison - for example 120 fps on GT7 vs 30 fps on Series S (snd X) on same track (let's take LeMans / Sarthe track). Of course the 60 fps mode comparison is understood
I wonder how Fable is gonna look. Didn't xbox say they would only portray games as they actually look.
I never followed the development PR myself. But I'm a huge Forza Motorsport fan and started playing with the OG Forza on Xbox. That being said, I love this new game. It brings me back to what made 2, 4 and 5 so much fun for me. Graphically, it could be better. I've had graphical glitches here and there on my 7950X3D / RTX 4090 system and the fps is unusually low for my specs at somewhere between 90 and 120fps on maxed out settings at 1440p. But the game doesn't have any game breaking bugs that I've discovered so far and the progression system is light years ahead of 7 (which absolutely sucked). And no microtransactions is a godsend IMO. All in all, a 8 out of 10 for me and my PC.
Do you have RT on?
Idk, i turned it off and i'm getting a lock at 120fps 4k ultra with DLAA with a 5800x3d / rtx 4080. RT ain't worth it.
@@GraveUypo yeah, RT on. But, I'm going to turn it off since I'm seeing some artifacts because of it.
Im wondering if Microsoft is depending on newer technology (a little too much) to get the job done for this game, but isnt quite there yet like they might have hoped for. It sems they have done this for other games recently too. Im predicting they thought it would have looked how they originally shown it but FSR didnt hit the mark they had hoped for. I cant shake the feeling Microsoft is depending more and more on behind the scenes magic and when it comes to launch time, it still isnt ready to hit that mark. Its one thing to have FSR and DLSS to improve performance, its another hoping FSR is ready so the game looks how it was intended.
We'd love to see a Forza vs GT7 video on the main channel... Pretty please?
Thank you. It was a good one.
5:05 Mind you GT7 is a cross-platform game
all things considered, I take crappy RT for stable FPS and getting rid of the grindy gameplay ... I will wait at least a year till some of the stuff is fixed
Not gonna defend Turn 10 for the false imagery.
I have turned full RT and can’t see any difference.
They did a full Ubisoft here.
Should be illegal except if you can collect sandwiches
Its very interesting why they did not do the same thing like the last of us and uncharted that present cinematics so downgraded that they seems different games, but sony do worst thing and they never comment about that. No matter the bs that they have, forza is by far the best racing game and the most advanced racing game right now and its visuals are unmatched.
@@acevedoaandres
You are literally lying. And name 1 instance where a ps or Nintendo game took a downgrade like this shitty fprza game that isn't even as good as FM4.
When it comes to RT in general, MS is going to have to make the change back to Nvidia. That is if they choose to go that route. AMD is an entire generation behind Nvidis on that front with their software tech that support being nearly two generations behind.
Yeah seriously. Imagine if these consoles were powered by a 3080 GPU. I would have paid a bit more for that.
RX 6000 = RTX 2000 in RT and RX 7000 = RTX 3000 in RT. By the time the next-generation rolls around in 2028 (according to the recent Xbox document leaks), Nvidia will be on RTX 6000. If AMD keeps up this pace, that means we can expect the consoles to be on the level of an RTX 5000 series GPU when it comes to RT, probably an RTX 5070 Ti or something as that’s the tier usually targeted.
Now tell me: does RTX 5070 Ti level of RT performance sound so bad in theory? For a console? No. And it’s why the leaked documents showed Microsoft intends to continue working with AMD.
The fact that AMD has been matching Nvidia gen-for-gen is honestly impressive. Their 1st generation of RT is roughly equivalent to Nvidia’s 1st generation (or better in many cases), and same goes for their 2nd generation. Nvidia just did it first, but they aren’t moving at a faster pace technically speaking.
Also, the console needs a CPU too. They are not doing Intel + Nvidia, no way. Intel is trash. They are going with an AMD SoC as always, maybe they get some 3D V-Cache in there too! But they should (and will) keep working with AMD for a tightly-optimized unit.
That primary reason is cost and flexibility. AMD makes very little margins from consoles and they go as far as they can to make them cheap while powerful enough. No matter what, if a console ends up costing 1000$ the market will disappear overnight because the primary selling point of consoles is accessibility and pricing. Otherwise everyone would run a PC. I doubt Nvidia would commit with such low margins.
The other reason is AMD is pretty much the best when it comes semi-custom and full blown custom jobs with in-house SoCs. The Steam Deck and Ally are perfect examples. Nvidia and Intel never really accommodated custom solutions, the only exception being the switch. You also have to work with two manufacturers instead of one which makes things more complicated and expensive. Either way it's not gonna happen for obvious reasons.
@@Fusionadethays ridiculously optimistic. The rx7800xtx is barely as good as a 3080 in RT.
@@Wobbothe3rddoesn't matter. AMD has two, maybe three, generations before the consoles launch to perfect chiplet design of GPU. Once they have done that, they could easily put a comparatively large chiplet or "core" in the GPU specialized only on matrix calculations for raytracing and AI. It will be enough. Software side both Microsoft and Sony are doing RD on their own to reproduce things like DLSS with Sony at least having working prototype internally. They will not be depending on AMD to deliver on that if they don't do it on time on the software stack side. Nvidia is not some secret sorcerer, the algorithm they are using for AI and ray tracing/path tracing are not patented corporate secrets. Even the one's created by Nvidia are publisher on papers that are accessible to anyone that purchase the paper from their respective publication. From there any competent, AI programmer or graphic programmer can implement things like what allowed Cyberpunk path tracing to exist.
this game is so underbaked, it needs more time in the developer oven
That oled burn tho hahahahaha. Nice one John, i laughed way too hard
Man same issue with Starfield except blacks are brown in Starfield. Which makes no sensw as HDR in FH5 and other MS exclusives look fine smh
@@DV-ou1yu that, friend, is the current generation's version of the infamous piss filter. it is, believe it or not, a deliberate choice by the devs to make the picture seem like it's behind a graphing paper.
Superb subject and objective, thanks a lot for it.
I don’t want to search my comment under that video and quote all those answers I didn’t know what I was talking and how it was 100% full RT and astonishing beyond ultra details on 100% full gameplay video. Well looks like over 30 years in games have taught me couple of things…
I don't even have ray tracing turned on, never saw the point to it, so have it on normal performance mode on my Xbox Series X. Think all my games I have on both consoles, I never have it turned on.
Misleading marketing kind of reminds me of Atomic Heart. That game was showcasing RT and HDR for years, only for the retail release to lose both features literally at the last minute.
It also seems like this game was only made for 1440p and above, playing it on native 1080p just looks like a blurry mess, everything up close looks ok but objects a little further away looks smeared on the screen and its on ultra settings.
When a doctor know's you are unwell, they will always give you worse case scenario. "You only have weeks to live!" Better that than giving you good news and then having to backtrack some time later.
I'm sure you get my point... "I was wrong, you'll live a long, happy life!" No harm done.
Start with worst case news!
pretty much spot on. also multiplayer is so buggy. i crash out of half of my online matches. on low settings after a few races ill get a consistantly low frame rate too. around 40fps which when i launch the game its more in the neighborhood of 120 with my settings. really needs fixed
Hehe they were running the game preview and pre release trailers on high end pc hardware to trick the consumer and gamers😂just like what cyberpunk 2077 did😂
I dunno but it's a mess, settings barely do anything, fsr is beyond broken, my 5800x3d utilization is 5-10% gpu ranges from 30-50% *7900xt*. One corner the fps is 120, next its 40. Crashes after every victory screen. What a delight!