Controversial Pacing Strategies - Liège-Bastogne-Liège 2024 | Lanterne Rouge Cycling Podcast
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- čas přidán 20. 04. 2024
- In this episode Patrick Broe and Benji Naesen recap both the men's & women's edition of the 2024 Liège-Bastogne-Liège.
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Fun fact: Pogi and MvdP won 11 of the last 16 monuments.
Those five "losses" included:
LBL 2022: neither of them started
LBL 2023: MvdP didn't start, Pogi DNF
Paris - Roubaix 2022: MvdP 9th, Pogi didn't start
MSR 2022: MvdP 3rd (first race in 2022 after injury), Pogi 5th
MSR 2024: Pogi 3rd, MvdP sacrificed his chances by helping Philipsen win
Crazy consistency
That’s actually completely insane
I didn’t realize it was this bad how much better they are than everyone.
It seemed like 2 years ago Wout was equal with MVDP, or at least I remember wondering who was better, no doubt now…
Wout on palmares has been out of this convo for ages tbf, he won the monument that is the most random and has great pr
itis like the old nadal, federer, djocovic days
i am pretty sure mvdp never had a worse result then 13 in a monument
The big issue I have with IPT pacing is that it was dumb. They burned out all of their riders when Pogacar was still there. They should have saved their riders and had UAE do any work.
Thank god for the women’s races this season. Saving my pro cycling enjoyment
It was a thriller till the end!
You need to watch MTB racing; guaranteed exciting racing.......
Everyone is allowed their opinion, but most all sports are like this. Football, Hockey, American football, NBA, generally are dominated by a few teams or players. Just imagine watching cycling when Merckx was riding. I feel like you just have to enjoy performances from those who you enjoy.
The best thing about SDWorx imploding is that it has made women’s racing so exciting!
Pogi focused on winning.
MVDP focused on a podium spot.
Roman Bardet never once mentioned in any pre race that I’m aware of.😮
Hard to like Kopecky with how selfishly she rides. Look for example, at MvDP at MSR...
Yeah I don’t like her at all, also her attack on Vollering after being in her wheel for the whole race at Strade. I wouldn’t ride for such a person
@@KingGJTthat’s bullshit for strade she didn’t just sit in the wheel
But I do agree she and the resg if the team have to ride for Demi more
Hey! Great podcast! Great riding from Bardet and Bernal today, (and Pogacar of course) Do you know what i would like? If you sold Lantern Rouge podcast Bidons on your merch shop! I would buy several!
Yes. I think we need to start a petition for LRCP bidons at this point.
I’d be down for some Elite bottles!
I like the points mentioned at around 15 minutes about how the groups of 10-15 riders never come back. It seems that the egos of these guys are too big, they can never pull for anybody else, and the tactical mindset of never wasting energy actually is gifting the win to the solo-attackers. One could argue that the Pogacar/Remco or Van der Poel are too strong, but for anybody who have been riding bikes, you know how much stronger one guy has to be, to ride away from a group that cooperates.
The same mindset we see in zwift races, nobody wants to do a decent pull or steady work on the front if you are in a small race/group. Some take it to ridiculous levels of wheelsuck.
Anna van der Breggen was an excellent rider but as a ds, questionable....😢
Agreed. It seems toxic.
With the rest of women’s peloton catching up and/or SD Worx taking a step back we’re seeing what happens when sheer talent can’t overcome bad tactics. Vollering has so much talent but I think sometimes she lacks that kill or be killed mentality. AVV and Vos are two riders who combined exceptional talent with really savvy race sense. The end of the race was an absolute, “wtf are you doing moment” for Vollering. First playing a losing game of chicken with Niewiadoma, which was just a huge waste of energy and caused her to be caught behind at that roundabout. But then in the sprint, she was sitting last wheel, so far back. I understand it’s good to come with speed but holy shit when you start that far back you need to make up so much ground to just catch up to the front two riders. It felt like this race was indicative of SD Worx season so far.
Sorry, maar stopt met zagen over solo's, Het is echt iets van deze tijd EN is geweldig om te zien. Binnenkort moeten er ontploffingen en wilde achtervolgingen zijn om het spannend te maken voor jullie?
It’s like there’s a conspiracy to make the men’s races boring this year in order to force people to watch the women’s races, in hopes of increasing coverage 😂
Its working on me haha
yes, womens race was better this time again, strange. No superhumans there, more level playing field it seems.
@@okoljskoinzinirstvo9353me, too. I’ve always felt like I don’t have the time to watch the women’s races on top of the men’s, but after the classics this year it’s felt like the men’s races have almost been a waste of time.
It's just a shame to start watching and hear Hannah Walker rambling on. She ruins races.
😂 - same for CX the past several seasons if MVDP & WVA weren’t head to head. The women’s races were brilliant scraps.
Re women's race: That was absolutely brilliant 🙌 yes im biased, super delighted with the result 🎉 But it was a excellent recap of the race, I could see it all happening in my mind, thanks a million 👏👏👏 I couldn't see the races live, this was the best thing to download with limited WiFi 😂
I enjoyed both races and the significance for both winners. Far more fun than any soccer/football I've tried to watch 😅.
Maybe Vollering is a) overconfident in her influence over others, and b) mentally beaten down by the contract drama.
I wonder in Benji has his cycling shoes on
Haha, took them off just before reacording.
Meanwhile... Pat has his comfy slippers on 😂
I'm struggling to understand why the guys are so suprised by SDworx not working for Vollering - in previous pods they even doubt Vollering's form when it seems clear that she is just completely at odds with her team and all professionalism has left the building, especially between Kopecky and she.
If this happened in a race both riders could win it would kind of make sense, but Kopecky had 0 chance. The idea that riders on a team would give up any real chance at the team winning because of beef is pretty crazy
@@cameronmastoras2292 I think the cat fight is real. It's a toxic team.
Can we start referring to Sarah Gigante as "Big Sarah"?
That's all I have to say.
Love her! I you haven't already, listen to TPR Podcast. There are a couple of interviews with her.
13.50 is that when you hit your best 5 sec effort Benji 😅?
This Classics Season from the men really makes you appreciate the womens races
The pacing wasn't just dumb ore unsportive, but it also increases the danger, because it proves again that it's needed to be in the top 20 positions which means that more and more riders need to push to be in the front. So a comment like this from Patrick and Benji is just increasing the danger in the peloton and I think it's very ill thought and stupid to say things like this. I always listen to this podcast and most of the time I agree, but this is just egregious.
Cycle racing needs to take a look at motorsport, when there's a massive crash. Out comes a yellow flag, and everything slows down until it's cleaned up.
@@WerdnaLiten I totally agree. This made no sense at all and just proves that you always need to be at the front which increases dangers a lot.
Trek should have taken full control of this race. They acted negative like SD Worx and allowed Brown and Chabbey in the break and gave them 3 minutes with 30 kms to go. In the end they gave the race away. Trek needs to stop trolling SD Worx and start doing their own races.
Absolute domination by Pogi. He delivered as expected. Stoked for Grace Brown! Canyon sram really botched that advantage…
Also a lot of cheating going on drafting team cars. Was pretty obvious imo
What? The only advantage they had was numerical and they used it effectively. As the boys said Kasia nearly got away but Kadzow misjudged and closed for ELB. Their tactics successfully beat ELB and Vollering it just happened to be Grace Brown who (deservedly) profited.
See so many people complaining that the racing is boring. While I agree to a certain extent why do people feel entitled to dramatic racing? Also what is the solution? You want MVDP or Pogi to have weights added to their bikes? If they are that much better than everyone else then so be it and enjoy the racing that goes on behind in my opinion.
You can both appreciate greatness and regret that the races aren't more interesting . Both things can be true
@@xtrachrisb488 I agree, I think the regret turns into complaining too often which is unnecessary.
That stretch where it came back ruined the race for me. Pidcock group pacing in wind and MVDP group is getting pulled across by the Bahrain car. Simply ridiculous considering how the comms treated pidcock group
You Bloody Beauty Gracie 🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺
Unless something happens to Pog, grand tour season will be terribly boring this year. Hope something levels the playing field.
vollering needs reusser back
Can we all agree that the women's spring classic season has been significantly more exciting then the men's
30w in 4 weeks, cmon
I know. I’m skeptical, too.
huh
A few podcast episodes ago LR said that it's difficult to get a good FTP reading because it's hard to pace well on a 60 or even 20 minute FTP test. It's hard to do outside because of random stuff in traffic/parcours, and hard to do inside because of heat. He said he only uses a ramp test and use that as a rough indicator, because a ramp test doesn't include fatigue from sustained effort.
No idea how he got to that specific number of Watts!
How can someone love cycling and call the men's race boring? If suspense Is the reason for watching cycling, then I suggest watching a thriller movie. It's shorter too.
This is disgraceful Ben Healy erasure. The poor boy pulled g2 for kilometers and kilometers and nobody would come to the front for more than 3 seconds until one of them tried to go off on their own. Another victim of group 2 syndrome 😔
Why are Kopecky and Vollering riding the same races clearly they aren't a good fit... Kopecky wasn't going to win this race anyways ...where is Rueser? She is one of the best workers for the team Sdwx and also sacrifices when asked and still can win races when certain situations occur she was missed.
Reusser is injured due to a crash in one of the Flemish classics (it was RVV, IIRC).
Easily the most boring classics season for the last 10 years. Hopefully the grand tours provide some more excitement
Don’t bet on it. The giro already looks a right off
Tadej will win the giro by 10 minutes, Jonas isn’t looking too good for the tour, and if he doesn’t ride the tour he’ll win the vuelta by 10
If Pog wins Giro and Tour (due to a Jonas absence), I wouldn’t be surprised to see him shoot for the triple.
Anyone know what was going on with the white haired woman at the podium? She was extremely upset about something. By the time of the actual presentation, she had left (or was removed).
Women get weak TV coverage because broadcasters know that the women have got a much better product, are much more engaging and usually give much better interviews. If Womens LBL had been live more than 50% of the audience would have switched to it and then maybe not even bothered with the Poggi show.
It's probably also Kopecky's fault for Demi letting Longo Borghini reach the front group alone and attack, and for mistiming her sprint
Awful campaign for SDW.
Cool show, not so cool race
5.5 watts per kg ain't happening
So why do the men's recap before the women's then? Honest question
Because more people watch it and more viewers and listeners of this channel watch only men's race. They do just what people want and since it is live, most people come here to listen about men's race recap.
It's just how it works.... We could also ask ourselves why women have to race on the same day as the men ?? I guess that we all know the answer... If women would race on another day, you have no viewers and no spectators...
It is maybe not fun to hear that, but it just is a fact.... And we see this in all sports by the way...
Please name me one womens sport that can financialy support itself without being subsidized ?
Not so long ago I went to see a basketball match in the WNBA.... not even 500 spectators in a stadium that can host 25 thousand people... From the five hundred people 90% was male.... Thus we can better ask ourselves why do women not support women ?
That's my honest answer...
I wonder what race the spectators in liege found more exciting 🤔
@@swissbiggy I don't think the issue is about women not supporting women ; most sports fans are men, and a lot of men just want to watch other men... To me it seems silly, as they're missing out on a lot of great competition. I don't really watch any other women's sport, but I like cycling so I watch both codes. And this season, the women's classics provided a lot of interest that the men's classics didn't.
From a commercial point of view, it's also worth noting that for how early in its development professional women's cycling is. Paris-Roubaix and Tour de France Femmes are examples of races which are run independently of the men's counterparts and perform well, and are arguably better races to view because of it. TdFF 2023 (only the second ever) had 2 million viewers in France alone for every stage, and 4.3 million for the Tourmalet stage.
Anyway, let the good racing roll on.
Well women's cycling is not new of course.... The Tour de femmes does exist much longer than you think, but they stopped with it many years ago already because nobody was interested in it....
Even in times that a French women dominated the sport (Longo), and was winning the Tour femmes no one in France was watching it...
And although the number of viewers did quadruple compared with the '80s, they are still much to low to be of any commercial value....
You have no money from spectators, like in most sports, thus all the money has to come from sponsors.
It is sadly the truth that everything in this world does turn around money... And without viewers and spectators this means that the sport will always have to subsidized.
And that is exactly what is happening now...
No women's cycling would exist at it's current professional level without the money that was earned by the male equivalent. It's maybe no fun to hear such, but it sadly the reality...
No Giro, Tour or classic could be organized without money that was earned by the male equivalent. Any organisation would go bankrupt in less than two years if it was only for the female race....
ASO and RCS do organize about 70% of all male World Tour races, with the biggest races being the three Grand Tours and five monuments.... And it is with that money that 90% of all women's races are organized..
Next to the ASO and RCS you also have organisations like Flanders Classics, who organize almost all Belgian cobble classics....
These male cobble races would disappear if each race would have it's own organisation.. And this is about male cycling....
This said, I do not have to explain that no women's cobble race would survive if it was not organized by money that was earned by Flanders Classics in male races....
We see the exact same in almost any other female sport... WNBA players (the best female basketball competition in the world) are getting payed with the money earned by their male colleagues. Each NBA player pays 10% of his salary to subsidize the female equivalent.
I could not name one female sport to be honest that could survive on it's own.
These are no things that I invent if course, but just facts.....
And does this mean that women's sport are no fun to watch ? No not at all, because like you I agree that for example the women's cycling classics are much more fun to watch this season than the men's races where a few doped riders win 80% of the races. (But that"s another discussion 😉).
How to solve this situation, and how to create women's sport that can survive on it"s own ? That"s a difficult question...
I am all in for equality.... But the 99% of the women that shout that women in sport should get payed equally, are also the women that never have visited a female sport competition in their entire life...
Feminisme is a great and good thing., but if we want it to work changes do not only have to come from men.. otherwise it will never work... Simple as that...
But I agree that it is a difficult topic, because I could not give you a solution how to make women's sport gain enough money to stand on it's own feet.
Benji needs to stop complaining. Yes you should appreciate how amazing pogacar is. I don’t care that the suspense is taken out. This guy is generational.
With people like Mauro Gianetti being your CEO and Matxin being your personal coach, I can't admire Pogacar... Sorry, everything about these two people has been about doping.... Mauro Gianetti being caught on EPO himself as a rider... And Gianetti and Matxin worked together at Saunier Duval where Cobo Acebo, Piepoli, Ricardo Rico and Iban Mayo where all caught on using enhancing products...
Any rider who has some brains would stay far away from these two people... But no they are CEO from UAE and the personal coach from Pogacar.... So good luck in supporting Pogacar, I'm waiting for the day that he will get caught...
And I do of course hope that I am wrong, but 40 years of cycling has learned me one thing... If something is to good to be true, then doping is included...
Love solo breakaways, they are never boring because it requires guts, belief and athleticism to mash away from the rest.
Poggi's launches last year from RVV and Amstel Gold were epic, he really goes deep, and its all written on his face, every cyclist knows what is behind that surge, it's more than pure talent, it's so much more.
MdvP's surge to win the Worlds was similarly epic, the run in wasn't a given either given the chasers, weather conditions, the crash, shoe breakdown.