Should Man United persist with Erik ten Hag next season?
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- čas přidán 14. 05. 2024
- On Sunday Old Trafford witnessed more drama as Manchester United played out a 2-2 draw against Jurgen Klopp's Liverpool.
Despite facing 28 shots, Man United emerged with a point from the game. But was it a point won through luck or design?
With just seven games left for Erik Ten Hag in the Premier League, attention turns to the summer and questions if he has done enough to convince INEOS he’s worth persisting with into next season.
Ayo Akinwolere is joined by The Athletic's Adam Crafton and Mark Critchley to discuss and debate the Dutchman's future.
00:00 Intro
00:44 Manchester United vs Liverpool
05:33 Squad building at Manchester United
12:22 Can Man United fans see progression with Ten Hag?
16:27 Champions League expectations
23:22 Can Man Utd operate better?
28:56 A different manager next season?
31:04 Ten Hag equivalents
36:02 Can a manager actually change Man Utd?
41:11 Will Ten Hag eventually turn Man Utd around?
47:07 Outro
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#manutd #premierleague #tenhag - Sport
Sacking Ten Hag and hiring Gareth Southgate would be single handedly the worst decision that Manchester United have made in the last decade
I made this comment about transfers on another video, but I'll make it here now because I can see some of the same tropes being wheeled out again and again:
The Athletic has been telling us for years about how bad United’s scouting, recruitment and selling structures are. United have made consistently bad transfer decisions for over a decade. We know their scouting is bad. We know they’re terrible at negotiation. They overpay on transfer fees. They pay stupid wages which makes it impossible to sell. They renew contracts rather than let them expire because it looks better “on the books”. They can’t even sell their best youth players for more than a pittance.
Why is it that, when Ten Hag joins, this is suddenly a "Ten Hag problem"?
This is obvious if we look at the players United have actually signed since Ten Hag joined.
Season 1:
Antony, Casemiro, Martinez, Malacia, Eriksen, Weghorst, Sabitzer, Dubravka, Butland
Season 2:
Hojlund, Mount, Onana, Evans, Amrabat, Bayindir, Reguilon
That's 16 players.
6 of them - Weghorst, Sabitzer, Dubravka, Amrabat, Butland, Reguilon - have been stop-gap loan signings to provide cover for injuries or, in some cases, a complete lack of players in that position. No manager for a team aspiring for Champions League football should have to rely on these kinds of loans, but Ten Hag has had to make do.
2 of them - Eriksen and Evans - were free transfers. Eriksen added a bunch of control to United's play in Ten Hag's first season, but his fitness has trailed off this season - not surprising given he had a fucking heart attack. Evans was clearly meant to be a back up this season, but repeated injuries in defence meant he's played far more than anyone expected - nobody thought he was going to be first choice. Both of them have been decent free pickups.
Malacia was a cheap signing to provide competition for Luke Shaw. After a few games where Malacia kept Shaw out of the side, Shaw upped his game and played the rest of Ten Hag's first season, so he clearly did his job. He's been injured all of season 2 including having apparently multiple surgeries.
Bayindir was a £5m backup keeper.
That leaves 6 players who we might call "serious" signings.
Martinez was outstanding last season, and absolutely critical to how Ten Hag wanted to play. He lets United play a high line, he provides control and a ball-playing ability at levels above our other centre backs, not to mention his leadership and organisational skills. United have really felt his loss this season, probably more than any other player. Good signing.
Onana had a few shaky moments early on, but has become a really reliable player for United, and has made a bunch of crucial saves. Good signing.
Hojlund wasn't Ten Hag's first choice - it was well-publicised that he wanted Harry Kane. Nevertheless, despite arriving injured and starting slowly, he's now an important player for United. Pricey, but a good signing.
Casemiro - again, not a Ten Hag choice, who clearly wanted de Jong. United spent the summer trying to get de Jong and completely failed. Casemiro was a panic signing after the season started, so obviously United paid a lot of money for him. He started slowly, but for most of last season he was very good. He's been poor this season, but again he clearly wasn't the profile of player Ten Hag was after - a press-resistant technical midfielder who can dribble, break lines, cover passing lanes, and dictate play from deep. Mixed signing.
Mount played a handful of minutes before getting injured for the rest of the season so far (with him slowly coming back in the last few games). No fairer to blame Ten Hag for this than it is to blame Arteta for Timber's injury. Can't judge this signing.
Antony is the obvious outlier here. He was obviously a player Ten Hag knew from Ajax, and thought would fit his system at United. He was underwhelming in his first season, and has been poor in his second season (including long periods out and obvious distractions due to his legal issues). United clearly overpaid for him. But would he be the stick to beat Ten Hag with if United had signed him at the start of the summer when he would have cost around £35m, instead of at the last minute when Ajax could name their price (and United had no time to go for an alternative)? Is Ten Hag responsible for United's inability to make a simple transfer without tripling the price? Everything we've learned over the last decade suggests it's a club problem, not a manager problem. Poor signing, but not as poor as the price would make out.
So where does that leave us? Does that list genuinely suggest "Ten Hag's Recruitment" has been so bad? I think it's been unlucky - the Martinez injures have been brutal for how United play (remember, Liverpool finished 5th the season Van Dijk was injured), the Mount and Malacia injuries were staggeringly unlucky, Hojlund arriving injured giving him a slow start, the club fucking up Antony's transfer and failing to get de Jong, and over half the signings being loans or frees. But to say Ten Hag is the architect of these misfortunes seems really short-sighted.
EDIT: I was reminded in the comments that I forgot about Butland, another loanee, and that Bayindir was actually a permanent signing. I've updated the post to reflect this.
Spot on, mate!
Spot on
They need to sack the mongol Athletic journalists and get this guy in. He's made more sense in half a dozen paragraphs than the majority of pundits all season. This ain't the managers fault. He's working with one arm tied behind his back.
Bro wrote an essay
This might be the most comprehensive coverage of United's transfer challenges under ETH I've ever seen. And it was under a CZcams video. Love it.
the more is listen to Adam the worse it gets.
Though a United fan and I believe a season ticket holder. I was wondering if he’s watched the same team. I understand eth inability to adapt . When he mentioned players I was confused. United injuries are greater than Martinez. How many combinations have United had in defence this season. Just look at how many games Evan’s has played, when he was brought in as an emergency defender. Would kobee have played as many games in midfield. Would mctommeny have been brought in in a top squad, he scores but leaves a gap.Casemiro was bought after United could sign fdj and the poor start. Erickson and amrabat have been bought in. You also look at who United wanted to sign on a wish list last summer. Right sided defender that could cover for varane, and transit to right back and either load central defence as three centre bks and the centre of midfield, as per Ajax . For examples refer to squaka, ste howson and stat man Dave’s channels.
As a football fan and transitioning into the inneos era, keeping eth, buying the right side utility and midfielder. But I also get annoyed of his hard headness and plan b
Crafton is a brain dead journo who doesn’t provide a single piece of good cogent analysis. Can’t watch anymore united videos by the athletic, I’m genuinely getting stupider
I acknowledge that you are suggesting clearly your strong opinion that Erik Ten Hag is at a financially irresponsible club considering their reputation and previous success and therefore unable to match any where near the level of expectation of success in the current premier league era, champions league etc. My response to you is...why did Erik Ten Hag knowing this...chose Manchester Utd to be his next club, directly leaving a legendary club just after achieving high levels of success comparative to their recent history? I believe Edwin Van Der Sar, former goalkeeper for man utd was then working with Ajax and was instrumental in helping the connection between the two clubs. My perception is that bias affected good decision making. Erik Ten Hag is used to working with a manager like Guardiola having done so previously at Bayern. I believe erik showed a lack of ambition if not lack of of self faith. In short, Man utd was the wrong choice for him and he will do even better than he did at ajax elsewhere other than at his current club. Unfortunately it will take time for him to regain trust from owners and players at top clubs and to therefore be successful due to his decision making. This matters. For example...despite Manutd beating barca in the europa league last season, barcelona have reached the quarter finals of the champions league this season and last season won their domestic league wheras Man Utd have regressed. And all this despite barca being unable to pay wages and potentially owing money and unable to sign players. Yet having said all this ...this current club barcelona is the same club that owns Frenkie De jong the player you referenced who would be the instrumental plauer at Utd and allow them to progress with the qualities of ten hag shown at utd. However this was not possible. And yet it wasnt ten hag who knew this apparently...no...it was De Jong. This shows me clearly tgat ten hags management levels does come under question. So therefore even in future should ten hag keep his job at Utd, and spend better structurally under Ratcliffe and co.....i would expect ten had to falter as he did previously...again i stress, only if utd improve. For me they would save time as a club replacing him asap if they can distinguish good decisions from unsuccesful ones...unlike Ten Hag. His philosphies are not aligned with this club and the level of success he can clearly achieve yet he and utd are both unsuccessful. He deserves to go.@gileshouliston7282
@@gileshouliston7282I don’t think there’s a midfielder in the world that could cope with Ten Hags tactics, maybe 3 Kantes? Even last season when everyone was fit the team looked dead by February and we just limped across the line
No please fire ANOTHER manager. That will solve everything! We will magically start winning league titles again as soon as we fire another manager.
Other things can be a problem at the same time as the manager. You can have bad manager, and still it not be his entire fault. Nothing wrong with sacking bad manager.
@@ptptpt123 But everyone is Sir Alex Ferguson and just needs time...
2 things can be true at the same time, Eric ten hag may not be the only problem but he's clearly not the right man.
No they're not the same way as everyone not being Pep winning the league in first 2 seasons @@jhf2121
THANK YOU. It’s like they love the idea of firing a Man Utd manager. Every single time that’s the go to headline when something is a bit shaky. These people study years to break into the journalism industry only to write crap without any thinking. It’s crazy they get paid for spilling shïte.
We are tired of this media nonsense
You mean reality?
Southgate as an option is not reality. Give the manager some time with proper structure above him. The previous CEOs and Directors have gotten us into the mess.... Throwing another manager under the bus is NOT the answer
Adam saying he doesn’t agree with missing key players as a reason for poor form because city haven’t had a left back in years is so unbelievably ridiculous. City have missed Rodri for 4 games this year and LOST all 4, not drew, LOST. So ETH can’t rely on Martinez in his second season when he’s only had so many opportunities to bring in the players he relies on but pep in his 8th season is totally reliant on a single player. There’s so many other things Adam says but I’d be here all day, if I knew so little about what I was talking about in my job I wouldn’t last a week. The fact this guys a top journo tells you everything.
Don’t get confused about this. As much as the athletic is supposed to be the “smart” football journos, they are still journos. Criticising united gets views and their top journalists is a guy who’s built a career on that. If united ever became good beyond question Adam would be out of a job.
Adam Crafton's Ten Hag out agenda is so obvious. That's not necessarily wrong, but saying "should your system really be so dependent on one player?" is bonkers. We have 3 quick defenders who can play CB and all of them are injured so we can't push up the pitch. What is he supposed to do then? If arteta had both gabriel and saliba injured last season i'm not sure they would have been able to play the same way.
Don't get me wrong, Erik Ten Hag is not the right man for the job, but assigning all of the blame to him and absolving these consistently shit players of any responsibility is pure bias. Get rid of ten hag sure, but that only prolongs the tenure of players like marcus rashford and bruno fernandes at the club. Get rid of all of our current "big players", then the manager.
Thats just CZcams as whole. If there were a football youtuber handbook it would probably read something like: “After a league loss put a shocking overreaction as your title on the video.
Examples: Chelsea heading for relegation? Fire the Manager today! The season is over!
As far as the video itself, make sure to absolutely bash the club like the world is ending, blame the board, and call for the manager’s firing. Rinse and Repeat until the team wins.”
*Reverse the reaction when the club wins a few on the bounce with titles like:
Trophy Dreams? Title Ambitions? Kings of Europe? Treble incoming
Agree with everything Except that eth is not the right man for the job
Who are the quick CBs you speak of?
Massive disagree with getting rid of ten hag and players like rashford and especially bruno. Absolute joke of a decision to let go of bruno.
Agree with everything else though
@@aakarmamtora3470 Rashford isn't a top-class player. He's a streaky player who fluctuates from game to game, half-season to half-season, can't consistently press, doesn't have game intelligence of the top forwards. Too much sentiment because he's a local 'lad' - his 'pride' these days is largely performative, and not on the field either. ETH's system doesn't always help either in terms of running and press requirements, but if club can get over 70m for him from a PSG, I'd sell.
Adam crafton football knowledge is really subpar.
Yea that's why he won sports journalist of the year by the British ports journalism awards the other week.
@@roryhungrrr Take That won 5 Brit Awards and Derby County won The Championship in 2005.
@@liamr194in what year? Your denial of reality is incredible 😂
@@roryhungrrrbased off of what? His reports about United? B/c if he did, then he’s for sure fallen off from the garbage spouted today.
Why mention City having a LB when they don’t play or even require one in their system? There’s so much more he said that was complete ignorance
@@roryhungrrr When did I deny reality? You've superimposed that on me; I didn't deny the claim you made when I would've been justified doing so potentially. I simply made the point... What you've said means nothing. When so many people erudite people are questioning his work, it is a statement in of itself.
After 10 minutes of listening these guys confirm my belief ten haag should stay. Their points are ridiculous "Man City hasn't had a left back in years" That is because they don't want one to play, we however, do. And we have been without a left back almost all season.
100% agree. The anti-Ten Hag media love to think they know it all but clearly don't, and when something challenges their ideas, they reject it cos their over inflated egos can't handle not being seen as some ITK tactico. The clear emphasis on the team is to disrupt the other teams highly structured systems through chaos. Its not new. What we're experiencing right now is similar to what Klopp did, and similar to him bacdk then, its cos we don't have the right players at the back and in the midfield. It'll come
Couldn’t agree more absolutely awful assessment all round. You can’t compare Arteta’s replacement player options against ETH. Arteta has had a few seasons to build a squad and get suitable replacements to suit a system should you suffer injuries or need to rest players. You can’t keep sacking managers. The ‘Pathetic Athletic’ strikes again - Bloody awful.
I was very disappointed that even channels like The Athletic have the media narrative influencing their analysis. I mean is the recency bias so strong that you absolutely discredit what ETH did in his 1st season. Only Brighton won at Old Trafford last season. He beat all the other teams from Big 6 at home.
Coming to Arteta, he has done an incredible job but the Arsenal owner's trust and patience with him is far greater than it.
Arteta's inherited team - David Luiz, Sokratis, Maitland Niles, Auba, Ozil, Lacazette, Tierney, Elneny, Holding, Pepe, Chambers, Mavropanos, Gueneouzi, Kolasinac AND Saka, Martinelli, Smith Rowe etc. You could see the striking similarity in that squad and this Man United squad. Build around the youngsters and recruit smartly.
Ik ETH hasn't done everything right but if he forcefully implements his style with such players, it won't get results in the short term and Utd won't be that patient. For me, his pragmatic approach is THE BEST SOLUTION for now. Stick with him for God's sake. Players LEAVE BEFORE the manager. That's it, enough.
Tired of watching Adam crafton on every fucking United video. Please get proper United journalists like Carl or Laurie
they say the same thing? Can be exciting but, defensive mess, what's the plan?
You are not alone.
The ETH criticism is getting old, especially when you don’t paint the entire picture.
As a neutral what on earth did they miss, they covered every area pro and con. Inuding the fact that it's not all on ten Hag.
If these fools can make it as professional football journalists, it gives me all confidence I need to succeed at anything in life.
7:34 comparing ten hags 2nd season with arteta’s 6th and pep’s 8th is just ridiculous. pep and arteta can deal with injuries MUCH better than EtH because they’ve had time to model the squad into one that fits their playing style. In the time pep has been at city, utd has had 4 managers. How the hell is united supposed to have a coherent squad when the managers always get sacked before they have a chance to build anything? It’s impossible to take crafton seriously after making such a stupid argument.
He's been there for 2 years with a full preseason and multiple transfer windows. Arteta had never mangaged before & didn't have the 10 years, europe-wide senior CV that ETH either. I'm not sure how much time you want? Or do you want to accept you're a Europa League/cup team unable to if-ever beat any of the Top 6 when you play them if you stay with ETH?
@@roryhungrrr18 months. Transfers that he doesn't run
@@roryhungrrrjudging by only first 100 games Ten Hag is doing better than arteta and Klopp in their various second seasons
@@TheWullsi 'On 21 April 2022, Ten Hag was appointed as manager of Manchester United ' Transfers that he directly runs you mean, no other manager is allowed to join a new club + then just sign 4-5 players they worked with easily, look at Klopp with Reus/Salah. Onana/Anthony/Malacia/Eriksen are the direct reuslt of his tips.
@@roryhungrrr because United lacked the right infrastructure when it comes to transfers. It’s been evident for years so he had to cope with players he’s known than total commercial signings strategy that’s been failing since 2012. No manager wants to be manager and director of football at the same time
Man City have not had a left-back for 5 or 6 years did you really say that who did they sell to Arsenal last season?
Thank you! They’re selective memory is baffling and downright laughable at this point
Zinchenko was never a natural left back
@@gwinter93 so where does he play for Arsenal?
@@twinsterpaulcity converted him to a left back. He was a CM. He still playes CM for his national team.
You are extremely confident, while having not much football knowledge.
@@alexandrupetrea8267 He played LB for both clubs in that position. Are you telling me that Pep and Arteta played and is playing him in the wrong position? Is Rebrov (the Ukraine national coach) a better manager than both of them? Are you telling me that you and @gwinter have better football knowledge than both Pep and Arteta?
Non of your assessments are fair... no manager will be able to implement any style of play with the number of injuries this season and things he's had to deal with with player power.
So Spurs', Liverpool's, Aston Villa's similar/equal absentees through injury + Afcon/Aisa cup and being miles ahead in the league means nothing in that context?
@@roryhungrrrThey aren’t similar or equal at all. Spur’s have seen Micky and Maddison back for majority of the season whereas Utd seem to have new injuries every week. Martinez literally came for a game and a half until he picked up another injury. No Shaw all season. Not the same
As a top Manchester Red fan, i fully support Ten Hags continued management.
I have made several polls and most United fans want to give him a another chance but the media is all about selling the "sacking" story
I disagree that the media ae only chasing sacking stories. I have seen the same polls and I do agree the majority of fans do rightly want to give ten Hag till end of season. But every week there are these roller-coaster highs and lows that have to be exhausting to fans alone whether it be a win like against Liverpool that gives hope of turning a corner, or losses to Fulham or draws; the worst are the undermining new stories that emanate either from the dressing room or agents, falling out with players, seemingly to play favs, not dealing with the midfield, leaving players on the bench like Varane. And/or ongoing news from INEOS that pops up positive or negative. It's so much drama.
Has Ten Hag pissed off Adam Crafton in a presser or something? Man hates him.
Think he's frustrated seeing a sub-par manager not equipped to manage his favourite team tbh
@@roryhungrrr He should be used to it.
Are you lads all looking for a gig on Talksport radio ?
Remove this Adam from your channel, he talks scrap
Yes! they should stick with ETH, we know what he did last year with a Squad that stayed fit? and we can see how Arsenal are
after sticking with Arteta, and his bad period? maybe standing by the Man you chose 18mts ago, is the right thing to do?
we know it took Sir Alex many years to get his team right, with Martinez and Varane playing last year, we didn't have that shot count
against us
The people that chose Ten Hag are leaving the club
Lol, this will be the best thing Arteta ever did to rivals. Because it took Arteta a few years, it will take Ten Hag or Poch a few years logic.
Never mind any context being applied to different situations like it being his 1st ever job, having a way worse and toxic team, not getting any real money in the first 18 months, taking over right before covid etc.
Was Arteta steadily and gradually improving after their FA Cup winning season following a poor start? How can we measure incremental progress?
He wasn't. Arsenal were terrible for a while. Arsenal fans tried EVERYTHING to have him sacked. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
You mustn't be very bright. The measure of progress is looking at the team having a semblance of an idea as to how to play football. Artetas arsenal immediately had a style of play, he just needed to sort the personnel out. 7hag STILL has no style. He got outplayed at Brentford 18 months ago and has developed absolutely no style as was evident when Brentford completely outplayed us again last week.
It really remarkable how so many football fans have absolutely no idea how to actually watch football. Do you close your eyes when the game is on? It's baffling
@@highnoon7097 starts sentence with "you must not be very bright" then proceeds with over-doing what can be written concisely ...sounds like your life is sad and frustrating. Good luck hope you grow out of it
@@highnoon7097Apolgoies for not watching it the correct way.
ETH had a style of play last season. This season it has been baffling. If we do not have ball progressors in our defence maybe play a different way? Agree with Adam.
Also, I remember Arsenal fans during Arteta out time. They must have been that way for a reason. Just trying to remember if we were impressed by his style regardless of the poor results. So that we don't sack ETH too early. Espcailly since there is no obvious candidate out there.
@@looptimelapse haha "overdoing what can be written concisely"... Ergo, you're too stupid to read anything longer than a single sentence.
Please bin off crafton and get a proper utd journalist he's terrible clearly doest understand what he's talking about
😂😂😂
Sensible review and comments Mark....only for Mark to totally ignore & miss the obvious from what was said......
Casmeiro & Eriksson are burnt out from last year, Mounts been injured & rarely been available, no money to sign players so we took a loan.....
Yes they should.
1) Let's get it out of the way in terms of points I'll make. The injuries. We cant get a consistency in the patterns of play (which are more relevant than other teams cause we play a transitional few touches to advance type game). We havent had our best and technical backline which helps us play in the opponent's half and keep possession. The latter is why we have this ping pong game.
2) You see how when it comes off it look soooo sensational. Just look at the Mainoo goal build up. We have that understanding, we just now need the techies that will help us slow down and rotate possession when we need to (we have the lead). Return of Shaw, Martinez, fit Mount, fit Varane.
3) I will criticise him on his lack of pragmatic approach when shit isnt going well. Not dropping big players when they're not playing well to shake some accountability into them.
4) The Youth Development is exciting (we have the u18s coming in the next 5 seasons). They will fight for the badge, they're so promising and so is our future. INEOS will put structures around him to build on last season since he couldn't this season.
EtH has made mistakes but theres a lot more working against him than for him.
Haha "sensational". You are beyond delusional
Again sloppy reporting from the Athletic. City drop points in 5 straight games without Rodri (but one player can't make a difference?). United are playing 15 yards deeper than they want to so obviously the midfield is overly stressed. The defense is playing 3 non-starters but ignore that, one striker who is new to the league and is 21 but ignore that. Lazy, unbalanced reporting again.
‘Ten hags record stacks up against potter and Southgate?’ They’ve won nothing and Southgate’s only club job he got boro relegated
I also could not believe when that sentence was spouted, absolute total drivel
This whole pod has completely ignored the fact the eth has had the most injuries in the league especially for main players how can you ask him to play a certain way or change things when we haven't had a settled team for the whole season. The agenda is clear here
The agenda is CRYSTAL CLEAR !!!
So Spurs', Liverpool's, Aston Villa's similar/equal absentees through injury + Afcon/Aisa cup and being miles ahead in the league means nothing in that context?
Bru ita like 9 points between all three
The frequent non-contact muscle injuries are not a coincidence. It's a result of Ten Hag's transition heavy game (players constantly cover large distances throughout the match) and his poor squad rotation prior to this season.
@@ForeignYellow yea thas only because united as a club is behind so of course when you get a coach who's say he want to be the best counter attacking side. We have players who largely have been jus getting by and not actually learning.training etc this I what happens. Look at the injuries and then look at who the are from baring licha everyone else is prone to injuries. And honestly this is right on cue. Give your all the first season then fall off the next when it gets hard to maintain. No one was crying Las year. Now everyone cries style of play. Last time I check style of play doesn't count for shit but likes and clicks
Adam Crafton lost me when he said Mount can’t get on the pitch when he’s fit. Such sentences betray his hidden agenda. I except that from espn not the athletic
He's started 4 games this season in the PL for MUFC...
@@roryhungrrr because he was out injured. He started all the matches prior to that
First of all lads, lets stop this. Erik and the club seem certain that he is staying for the next season. Secondly, how are you actually surprised with the amount of shots and the lack of control? The injury list is insane, not to say united is the only club with this issue, but look at the starting 11. Firing another manager after two seasons is idiotic and means they would make the same mistake once again. The entire sporting side of the club is currently being checked, new hires are coming in and a new plan is set in place. Erik leaving means having to look for a new manager and who would that be? United would also be competing with Liverpool, Bayern, Barca and many more. Has the Athletic really sunk this low? To call this journalism is poor, its chatting shit because its popular to talk about. Stop it
Don't understand the point on injuries. Am I wrong or did Man City not lose all their games when Rodri was out injured? One player, depending on their importance, can make all the difference.
Ten Hag won more games (63) than Jurgen Klopp(62) since August 2022 when he joined United
Ten Hag has better record coping with injuries than Klopp, Arteta, Ange, Emery, Howe
Ten Hag won our first trophy in 6 years
Ten Hag adapted to 26 back 4 combinations in 31 games
Ten Hag set United to be top-3 in the league for shots after high turnovers
Ten Hag is on course to get to 3rd cup final in 2 season
Ten Hag has highest post-SAF win rate both overall (60.4%) and at Old Trafford (70%)
Ten Hag handled Ronaldo, Sancho, 2 abuse scandals, club sale, worst every injury crisis, crazy hate from media calling out even how he speaks, absolutely inept staff at the club making him manage scouting, transfers, failing him medically (remember why Reguillon left?) and didn't break (like a f*ng hysterical de Zerbi), lose temper, composure etc
Trust me, Hag walks into ANY team in the world right now, maybe except city. Bayern and Barca would clash harder than 8-2 if he was on the market. Comparing him to Arteta is a joke. You forgot how Arsenal were a laughing stock for 3 years? Arteta didn't have 10% of what Hag faced. Ange is a fraud, he is already found out but shielded by his first 10 games. Last season Klopp after 30 games was 8th on 47 points. 8 years into the project! EIGHT YEARS! Get off him NOW!
Athletic pls get these debates more balanced.
Cut out Adam’s part and maybe it becomes an intelligent, unbiased discussion.
It's ridiculous to keep firing managers, some players need to go and a new squad needs to be built. Rashford has to go, and Bruno probably as well.
Realistically the club aren't going to let their most marketable players go...bit of an unrealistic aim.
this is so weird why has everyone decided Bruno needs to go, he's about our best, most consistent player until Dalot and Mainoo this season
Yes, injuries have been a killer this season, last season we did well. If we had a fully fit squad all season and we were 7th and playing like this, I’d say ok maybe a new manager. He needs one more season for me
Ten Hag in.
😂
Thought I was the only one listening to this that was astounded at how much rubbish was being spouted. The revisionism over Arteta’s early record was it for me, total nonsense.
So glad that people are seeing through this facade. I’ve shared numerous times that Adam Crafton should be removed from commenting about United. It seems when it comes to dispersing negativity, that’s when he gets wheeled out. The assessments are subpar and agenda driven. We may be fans of the club, but we aren’t stupid.
Give him more time
Give Ten Hag a lifetime contract!
I think you're forgetting that when Rodri doesn't play, city lose. Vvd injured most of the season, Liverpool are rubbish (remember all the Klopp out calls last season?) & Saliba injured, Arsenal crumble. United are miles behind those teams, 6th in the league is actually quite the achievement considering how many injuries they've had.
Absolutely yes . Injuries , change of ownership , player issues . Why athletic is pessimistic over utd all the time ?
Cuz we ruined their childhoods LOOOOL
The timing/price/procedure of buying Amrabat has nothing to do with Ten Hag. Thats the incompetence of the club
Put a FAST CB to push the defence up higher and close the gap to midfield + add a much more mobile DM to replace Casimero and cover behind the high press.
Tactically, those two improvements would fix a lot of the reason why United don’t have more control in games.
For once I wish United would fix the squad to fit the system, rather than starting over with a whole new system.
It’s so clear how a few player changes could make this entire way of play work, and if it does, you’ll have some of the most exciting football in Europe - with some of the best young talents in years. See it through 💪
100%. Yes he deserves criticism (style of play through out the team my main issue and transfers, even though that's not just on him, its the people around him he probs cant trust) from time to time but look at everything he's had to deal with in his almost 2 years of managing UTD. Taking over the worst UTD team ever in PL history, Ronaldo issue, Greenwood, Maguire (think he got arrested on holiday, not sure?), Sancho, Injuries, a year long Glazer sale process hanging over the club.
Lets give him time with a steady ship, a proper structure around him and trust the process. I can see and hoping to see that he builds a squad around our youth players.
Mikel finished 5th, 8th,8th and 5th before really turning into the team they are now, 4 seasons!
Forgot to mention Antony off field issue as well
fully agree
Agreed man. I dont recall maguire thingy, if i recalled, he got boom threat in the first season. glad he got a good form this season
Arteta finished 8th, 8th, 5th and 2nd.
Jose and van gaal were past it when they were at united while moyes and ole(unfortunately) weren't good enough for united.
Ten hag is someone who is neither of the above, yes he has something to prove yet but he has the capability to do it as seen in the 1st season and with another major team like ajax. Stick with ten hag
Ten Hag wishes he was anywhere near as good as Solskjaer lol.
I'm just hoping he figures it out in the end 🤞
@@DirtyJamesUKlol be naive somewhere else
@@aakarmamtora3470 if inconsistent chaos is your thing I guess everything is going well.
Cannot understand why Ten Hag will not use Amad Diallo. He put in a stand-out, match transforming performance against Liverpool in the Cup:
- in and out of possession, quality passing, regaining possession, tackling, dribbling, harassing Liverpool players, tracking back… and not least, in nicking the ball off Harvey Elliott running 60 metres and scoring the winning goal.
Did Ten Hag watch the same game?
Amad is a gem, but Ten Hag just can’t see it. Makes me really question the guy.
I feel it's the same reason he's reluctant to start Mount, and uses Erikson sparingly(granted his legs are gone). These guys want to hold on to the ball instead of punting it foward all the time, and so they don't fit the chaotic style he wants to play. If he desired more control,he'd value their input and abilities more.
Because antony is his boy and he's desperate to try to justify he was worth the enormous price tag. So if course he comes on ahead of Amad
@@refigee8752This chaotic approach does the United players no favours. They play under immense self imposed stress. Seem always to be like men on the edge of a nervous breakdown. That’s down to the manager, and cannot be allowed to continue:,
These guys are talking crap, Arteta finished 8th in his 2nd season, and all the Arsenal fans were calling for his head. United want 10hag to be given longer. Other fans want him out, so they can laugh when we get Shitegate to replace him.
No-one wants Southgate, but club know there'd be near-riots if he was appointed, so they're almost certainly not going to get him in (mate of SDB and DA or not). It's telling that smart, as well as 'less sophisticated' opposition fans would love the club to keep ETH because they can see the trend and know the performances will be hot messes again next season by and large.
Yes, Keep Ten Hag, but get rid of those players who have been failing for years. This is Rashford's 6th manager, Mctominay's 5th, Bruno's 4th, Shaw's 5th, Bissaka's 3rd, Maguire's 4th...and so it goes on. Rangnick was right, this squad needs open heart surgery.
The young players...Mainoo, Garnacho, Hojlund, Kambwala, and even Amad, are the future. The past needs selling.....thia summer.
wait wait wait, Was Arteta really that great with the previous seasons ? (except the last one)
No shit, you said "you can see how it somehow was clicking", no you don't, you don't do that, none of us saw what he was doing, ppl were delusional to believe in him then, thankfully he's learnt from it, but when it wasn't working it was shambolic, akin to how united are.
This is absolute garbage journalism. Tell me one occasion where ppl though Arsenal were clicking before these 2 seasons.
great show! I agree the way we are being set up by Ten Hag has been the same all season leading to end to end chaos and being so open it cant go on, can it? Sad that it's not worked out because I was impressed by his first season.
For sometime I thought the athletic talks sense 🤣🤣 but not anymore I take my words back
Crafton talking guff about the FA Cup performance. Liverpool had a couple of dominant first half minutes and then the 2nd half of normal time, but United edged that game on balance. Conversely they're being too generous to ETH overall: whether it's coaching or miscalculation around personnel that hasn't bene rectified, or inability to produce a hybrid system that offers more cover when team breaking forward (perhaps by coaching players to work more smartly rather than needing numbers to try and penetrate defences), ETH has desperately underperformed since Mach of last year, the odd game aside. As for the finances, getting rid of just one of the players that persistently holds the team's style back would pay for letting ETH go And bringing in new coach...
Love the comments are cooking you lots, very subpar analysis
Very well said Critchley. This is the best suited way based on our best players ability.
a question for the guy talking on 7:30 Should a good boardroom of a great football club not be able to provide options suited to the style of play a manager needs...should they have not given ETH the profile of player he needs for every position...what is your point mate
Crafton saying that emery has charisma is the funniest thing of this pod 😂
Yes. Signed fans of every other football club.
Adam would Liverpool have taken ten haag before us? Yes
Bayern and Real Madrid replace their managers any time without a second thought. If a manager don’t deliever, he should be replaced. United won’t get european football next year, likely, and ETH should be dropped.
A very intelligent and calm conversation.. Great stuff
Crafton said should a team/system be so reliant on 1 player...look at city without rodri
I usually like The Atheletic, but this was a horrible take throughout.
Adam’s right about United not having that threat when Garnacho goes off, but to say that Amad should go on after he scored in the FA CUP is ignorant.
When Amad plays, he’s not as much of a threat as Garnacho. He’s prone to lose in physical battle and plays safe, like passing back to defenders. He needs to settle more into the team and get used to the prem.
The takes they had on this video seemed really lazy overall
A club takeover battle, 2 rappe cases, a striker who refuses to score, a star winger who lives in a different country…. No club infrastructure and the worst injury crisis in modern times…. Cut Hag a bit of slack…
Erik Ten Hag Stay. Buy 2 center backs (one that can play both cb and lb so that we won't spend money for buying a lb...gvardiol ish), a defensive midfielder (preferably de jong), and a striker(sesko). And get rid of lindelof, eriksen, amrabat, martial. Sell sancho and greenwood for 120m combined. Sell casemiro and varane to saudis for 70m or 80m combined. Wage bill lowered!!! Get ucl spot in 2024/25 and +80 pts in epl. Sell mctominay in summer 2025 for 50m. Buy another midfielder. Win the epl in 2025/26. Win the ucl in 2026/27. Appreciate Ten Hag. Appreciate INEOS. Done!!!
What does danny Murphy know about football, was a bang average player not good enough for a crap Liverpool side yet he’s the oracle on what it takes to win. Nah mate guy is a fool
If nagelsmann is available then yes
100% needs at least another season, particularly with the correct structure around him.
Can’t replace the manager unless your CEO, Sporting Director and Technical Director is in place.
What style!!!! Does he even have a style?????
He does but most of these players can’t be asked half the time. Majority of them got three managers sacked. THREE!
Superb analysis and well balanced
What? Are you honestly saying Arteta would’ve been ok finishing 8th his second season never mind his third season? No he would’ve been sacked so why wouldn’t you give time to ten hag who has already actually proved he can win with a poor team never mind if he actually got more than the 2-4 signings he’s had starting this season instead of the same lazy players who can’t adapt to new tactics under him, rangnick ole or jose
The four past managers have lost their jobs after 2 years, yet its always sack the manager before clearing the players
It took Klopp 3 years to win his 1st trophy at Liverpool. A lot of Arsenal fans wanted Arteta sacked. Sir Alex Ferguson was nearly sacked and took 4 years to win his 1st trophy for United. Ragnick told us all how bad United were and it would take years to get United challenging for PL titles. A new manager will set United back even further.
What this video has shown me is anything adam crafton is on or has written im staying far away cus i have never seen an agenda thrive in a man like him and eth out
Yea he's only been a United fan his whole life + won the sports journalist of the year award the other week...open your eyes...
@@roryhungrrr stop spamming
@@zebmars8944stop denying reality!
@@zebmars8944 stop denying reality
I searched for The Three stooges and ended up here....
We've beeen playing most of our games with Evans or Lindelöf at LB, Maguire and McTominay that no club was willing to buy for £25m in the summer even though Ten Hag wanted to sell them to buy player who fit him better. Only Onana, Lisandro, Hojlund, Antony and Hojlund are signing that he wanted. Amrabat was a last minute loan because Mainoo got injured. Casemiro, Rashford and Antony have been underperforming. Only Onana, Varane, Dalot, Mainoo, Garnacho and Hojlund have done enough and 3 of them are 21 and under. Lisandro, Shaw, Malacia, Mount, Martial and Amad out for almost the entire season.
Onana - Shaw, Lisandro, Varane, Dalot - Mainoo Mount Fernandes - Rashford, Hojlund, Garnacho with: Maguire, Wan-Bissaka, Casemiro, McTominay, Martial and Antony should be good enough for 4th. But not with 8-10 injuries for every game.
Anyone suggesting United keep ETH a minute longer is not United a fan. The football being served up is a fast way to the bottom, if you support that then you do not support the club. The manager is responsible so the only outcome should be him to lose his job.
As a neutral, I can see the logic behind ten Hag seeing out the season, giving him a chance to show INEOS what he is about, but I can also see the possibility if there are losses to let him go IF there is nothing to play for so INEOS has more time to interview before end of season.
Although ten Hag is not my kind of manager for many reasons that the panel outlined, I do think the job has overwhelmed him. Not just because of United's historic expectations but the awful state United is in. Thats a weight that has felled most managers since Sir Alex.
but I do actually feel badly for ten Hag, United are an unholy mess from the Ownership on down and have been for years, and what we are seeing now is an accumulation of all the errors, player power, lack of winning mentality and physical fitness. I have never seen the constant weekly drama of gossip, turmoil in one team and the lack of support from the players for the manager is horrendously disrespectful as are the leaks to not just the manager, but to the fans and the club. Name one other club that operates like this and is successful.
And I agree with the comment about watching United as a neutral as its fascinating as you never know the drama that going to unfold - which is also why the media are reporting on it so keenly.
AHH yes the constant improvement under Arteta like going from 8th to 8th!
results based analysis. united fans cannot comprehend otherewise.
Change the structure, let it develop then get rid of needs be. Ultimately I don't care what players/coaches stay or go. A correct club structure is the recipe for long term success in thenmodern age.
Unless there is an outstanding manager available, i don't see the appeal of moving on from ETH.
I don't think counter attacking works as a model to win the league and have sustainable success, so the current style will probably fail, but at this point, I don't see a better option given the current crop of players and the string of injuries.
I am much more interested in the recruitment in the summer given that there should be a longer term, more sustainable view by the Director of Football than the coach.
Good talking points but I don't understand why the manager is the one getting blamed for all the mistakes that has been happening in United for over 8 years.
Ten Hag has clearly inherited players that aren't good enough, along with making some bad signings. And the injury list is way too long to rule out, I don't think its fair to criticize him for everything that is wrong with United at the moment.
Man Utd has been very bad defensively ! Last season we had the most number of clean sheets. This season we have conceded the same number of goals already, plus so many at Old Trafford. That coupled with Rashford's poor form kinda gives you an idea of where United are in the PL table at the moment.
We must remember that last season he overachieved. He led us to two finals and a top-four finish in the Premier League. This season, however, he has underachieved. Nothing seems to be working. He deserves at least another season to redeem himself, given the return of some key players from injury, the opportunity for investment in the transfer market by the new owners (Ineos), and the addition of some important figures to the club's management and strategy team.
It’s underestimated how much Rashford’s form (purple patch, or whatever) contributed to last season, in tandem with Casemiro, who in retrospect was a poor value short-term buy, the type that has contributed to United’s FFP issues. I agree the system makes Casemiro look poorer, but there is no doubt he has dropped off, and that Real Madrid rinsed United.
Biggest difference is character. Character is fate, the Greeks used to say.
More media short-sightedness here. Most of the players that are playing right now are the players that threw Ole under the bus and played horribly under Rangnick. These players aren't good enough to play a controlled, possession style of football. I think this season Ten Hag has leaned into the chaos of absolute counter attacking football.
Last season we couldn't score without Rashford, so he's over correcting by throwing every player forward. That combined with having slow defenders who know they'll get out paced on the break so they drop back closer to their own box is leaving a massive space in midfield that teams are able to stroll through.
Martinez being out is massive for Ten Hag's system. He's fast enough to make up ground on a break, he has the ability if he's not one of the world's best defenders at making a line breaking pass and he's a natural leader. The media in general, including in this podcast is asking, 'Should a system be so reliant on one or two players?' Look at City's record when Rodri doesn't play! Take Saliba out of Arsenal's back line for the entire season, I'm pretty sure that's why the faltered last season.
The Athletic is a fantastic outlet for letting everyone know what a joke Utd are behind the scenes, yet everything this season is on Ten Hag. Do better, guys.
Myself and all the Utd fans I've spoken to are fervently in favour of keeping Ten Hag in the job. I'm so sick of this narrative.
Crafton: how can you compare Utd injury situation to city? City has almost 2-3 players for each position and this wasn’t built in one season. It took them 6-7 years of great window.
YES YES YES he going to win the lot if he gets time the rest of the club needs ripping up and start again but Ten Haag deserves atleast another 2 years just for progress alone
United needs to be burnt down and rebuild completely.
The way this gave away the FA Cup final last year, the 7-0 at Anfield, the UCL this season, the messy style of playing, the amount of money paid in wages and transfer fees...
Ten Hag out!!
This Adam guy has an amazing job for his talents, not far off ETH. Living off silly sarcy jokes. Please get someone to criticize United who actually follows and understands football.
Martinez is our VVD, our Rodri. Liverpool and Man City results drop off a cliff without them. (Not comparing their abilities, but the way the team performs without them.) Martinez elevates the performances of others around him, and tactically is key to our high defensive line (which drops 10-15 yards without him). It’s chaos because ‘we have no midfield’, but I feel we do have a midfield, it’s the dropped back line behind them that makes it for awful viewing. -In my humble opinion.
Total lack of any perspective in this episode. You cannot have a discussion on Ten Hag's coaching without talking about the availability of players this season, both because of injury and through the squad building. If he chose to play a low-block system in his second year, the Athletic would still be having a podcast on whether the manager was good enough. The system is a deliberate choice, informed by the players available in combination with Ten Hag's philosophy of playing transition football. Conceed low quality shots, exploit space and create chances. Doesn't mean it's sensible, but there should be no confusion.
Mount has is just coming back and he has played in part, he scored!
Amrabat was the best midfielder at the world cup and was statistically superb in serie A last year .
I like the point about asking for the teaching plan. The one thing you cant help but ask yourself when watching Utd, is what on earth do they do during training. We dont defend well, dont control midfield at all, dont create good goal scoring chances and are horrible at set pieces. There is no cohesion between players when we play. I honestly dont think it'll be better next season, the tactics are just too desperate even when majority of the squad is available for selection. Its been really poor this season, injuries or not, we really should not be getting outplayed by so many teams even at home.
How many games do you say we played well for 20 min or 30 or in the second half
The plan works but the players are not consistent within the plan it’s not desperate, games become basketball games because we have players who can’t keep the ball in the midfield so we can’t control the possession once we are patient enough on the ball this team becomes better instantly
Again I’ve watched every united game this season , united losing possession in the midfield has a direct correlation to the gaps that appear all the time
Adam is also forgetting that we had more shots against Liverpool in the FA cup than they did against us
The Postecoglu disrespect lol
What bollox comparing a Liverpool, City and Arsenal squad that has been built over 5-10 years to Ten Hags second season where he's using players as best he can that don't suit his style. If Ten Hag gets to build a squad then compare him...
Adam is proof that a sports journalist does not equal a sports analyst, because what are these takes?
Absolutely ridiculous and agenda driven.
Haven’t we all been watching the same games and experiencing the same injuries that have hampered every plan this season? How can you say the system is dependent on “one” player when we’ve had the most injuries this season, the most inconsistent combination of defensive lineups, and played majority of the season without a left back, with the left side being our strongest in terms of ball progression and attacking prowess for years now.