Hardtail Is Still The Best Option, New Study Explains Why 📈 | Dirt Shed Show 474
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- čas přidán 29. 04. 2024
- This week on the GMBN Dirt Shed Show, Martyn Ashton is in the shed with Owen Coutts, aka 'Owen the bike nerd' to argue that new studies show that a hardtail is the best bike choice for fun. Does Martyn's graph back up his argument? 🤔
Plus MTB News, Sickest Thing, Hacks And Bodges, Caption Contest, and we check out some super nice MTBs locked away in the Bike Vault!
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00:00 - Intro
00:38 - 📈 New Study Explains Hardtail Is The BEST
03:55 - 📢 Topeak Competition Giveaway
12:48 - NEWS
15:47 - Sickest Thing
16:33 - Poll
17:53 - Hacks And Bodges / Hounds & Beagles
19:47 - Shop GMBN
20:42 - Things We Liked
22:45 - Bike Vault (GMBN Presenter Edition)
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Do you agree that hardtails are the most fun? 🤔 What do you think is the most fun type of bike and style of biking? 👇
KONA HONZO ALL THE WAY
got a 2022 Orbea Laufey, I agree
HELL YEAH!!!! less maintenance more fun
Yeap. I rode self built Poison Trekking bike made od steel, then a trail bike Orbea Laufey from 2021 and now a self built Enduro bike Ragley Bigwig.
The last one does everything inkl Bikepark and more than I am capable of in terms of jumping. I am more the grounded type of rider 😅 blue trails are still fun and I can tackle the rough stuff too. Well no one like a rock garden or a carpet full of roots anyway 😱😜
Well, my Orange P7 just arrived, so of course I’m going to agree.
Really, hardtail is the only MTB you need! You had to say this when I just closed a deal for my first full sus…😅
Well, you don't have to let CZcamsrs make your decisions for you, so....rest easy.
Haha same here. The main thing holding me back is the additional maintenance of a fully. Hard tail serves me well enough
What you enjoy riding is what you need. If it's a fatbike or a hybrid bike let it be 😂
Me too, ridden a hard tail for 20 years. Just bought a full sus emtb. 😂
You’ll love your full Cush bike.
I am the suspension. I'm 62 years young and loving my rigid single speed.
Ive tried that. Enjoying my full sus much more at 61. Different strokes....having fun is all that matters in the end.
Good for you
this comment is goals for me. glad to hear youre living the dream brother!
This is the best video for someone wanting to get into the sport! If someone is thinking of getting something expensive to start but can't afford it i am showing them this video. As somebody who started on all modern bikes and rode them for about 5 years i whole heartedly agree! I just recently got into mid 90's bikes and i have a couple full rigid ones that i take out on trails to pay homage to the sport and brush up on line choice. The old chromoly mountain bikes of the mid 90's are magical and such a hoot to ride and i wish I started on them. I found myself giggling and having the time of my life on a green trail. more people need to throw a leg around one these days! Also remember that the parts are ridiculously cheap and simple to fix them, all the way down to the tires. I have about 150 bucks into a bike that i take on the same trails as my bikes worth 1000's (and they both break just as much)
Sure, we get the point…20 times more expensive though? At least compare bikes that are actually that far apart. An Orbea alma h50 is ~1.5k, that Tyee is about ~6.5k…
Riding hardtails since forever until 2021 when I got my first full suspension ebike .I’m 70 and still love riding my hardtails.
Ebike 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮👎👎👎👎
@@DB-sd3cw Let’s see how you feel about eMTB’s when you’re in your 60’s and 70’s.
@manfredstrappen7491 if I reach the point where I literally can't pedal an analog bike anymore, it's time to get another hobby.
@@DB-sd3cw Actually still ride a regular hardtail bike the ebike is for recovery rides and exploration. Sadly everyone reaches that point when you’re healthy and then suddenly your’e not.
I got a Nukeproof scout(was heavily influenced by Blake) and it’s outstanding. I’m not an incredible rider. I’m a dad and the idea of getting an injury that leaves me in bed for a while would be pretty bad. Modern hardtail can absolutely rip, but they can also be exciting on trails that tend to be a little easier and a little safer. There is absolutely terrain that they aren’t great for but that’s kinda the top 5-10% or trails. For MOST people, hardtails are amazing and far more capable than most riders
My rationale for a hardtail as well! Well-said.
Yep. Spot on. Been back on a hardtail for nearly a year now. Miss the plush cushiness sometimes (I'm old and lazy) but don't miss the rear linkages getting all janky after a while. And I can do pretty much anything on the HT I could before, just take it a little slower. Big deal - I'm not racing.
I agree with you Martyn! Been mountain biking ~35 yrs and I still grab my (modern) hardtail 99% of the time. With modern geo, better suspension forks, longer droppers, better brakes, and larger/wider wheel & tire sizes, they are incredibly capable. Obviously it can depend on the trails available and style of riding someone aspires to, but I'd rather under-bike than over-bike.
I'm coming up to 78 and still on hardtail ,tubeless has transformed the ride big tyres and less inflation 👌😎
That Michael Jackson reference damnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.....even the camerman laughed!
I recently moved somewhere very flat , after 28 years of full suss I have bought a hard tail and it’s a totally different experience. The pick up when putting your foot down is amazing and I can do miles and miles without needing to sit down .
Im still getting use to it , just waiting for the weather to improve . Really happy with my purchase .
I was introduced to mountain biking in college in '87, and the bikes were primitive, but we didn't know that, so we rode them hard and couldn't believe the places they took us. The Earth's terrain that we all ride on hasn't changed much since 1987, but the bikes we use have certainly made the ride smoother.
And I still can't believe the places they take us.
Absolutely nailed it. I have a Niner hardtail from 2007, a carbon FS from 2015, a 2022 650b gravel bike and I just built up a 1995 Gary Fisher Marlin 26" rigid. They're all great but if I could only keep one it would be one of the hardtails.
This clearly demands a budget hardtail shootout, no?
100% agree! I have a budget hard tail and it's phenomenal what you can do on it. My rigid MTB I bought in 1995....still gives me a high
Thanks to Blake and his hard tail vids I picked up a Ragley Big Al at 52 years old and now I rarely ride my full suspension now . Love getting out on the hard tail again , you are so right , the tech is so good and the fun factor is awesome!!!! The only downside is most of my friends have gone the opposite direction and jumped on the e-bike trend and now I mostly just ride with my dog . Love the hard tail , hands down the most fun you can have on a trail . Cheers boys , love this !!!!!!
I still have my Saracen mantra elite hardtail . I bought it as a shop demo and got it for a good price . Around 7 years ago and absolutely love it
I bought a Orange P7 and never rode my full suspension again. Bundles of fun🤙🏼
I loved this episode. For most people (including myself) a hardtail is all you need. I started on a hardtail and only switched to full sus because the spectral 125 had a huge discount. I’m not having more fun than I did with hardtail but the full sus and better gear are nice creature comforts.
@mattyactive said it. You don’t need much bike to have fun.
I sold my full suspension Scott Spark last year and built up a NukeProof Scout frame. I love my hardtail and don’t miss my old bike.
I love hardtails! The real question and an exercise for us all is to consider the difference between 'need' and 'want'. Once we realise that we 'want' something fancy it is quite liberating. We all need to ride bikes and it's ok to want a new one!
I sold my Trek Full-Sus today, because I didn't ride it after getting my Nicolai All Mountain Hardtail. It's just the perfect one-for-all bike, from Touring, Bikepacking, Trail riding and Bikepark laps. It's more the Geo than the Suspension which gave the bike the capabilities. The HT is much Longer and Slacker than the FS and looks a bit like a 29er Dirt Bike.
This is truly wisdom. At the end of the day we are at the point where marketing is running the show with mountain biking… 90% of us don’t need the majority of the new tech and would be well suited on a budget hardtail with good geometry. If you have the money (or the trails) that really require the higher end stuff go for it but if you’re wondering if it’s worth picking up a 3 years used hardtail for like 700 bucks the answer is ABSOLUTELY HECK YA BRO RIP IT!
I love my hardtail but no I'm now used to riding much faster downhill and eating up the rock gardens. Couldn't go back 😅
Exactly. It’s one thing to start on a janky hard tail and fully use up its potential. But it’s downright nonsense to pretend like going back to that after experiencing what a modern Dh or enduro bike can do is ‘fun’ or the best bike experience ever. Lol
I've still got my marin Indian fire trail from 1996 with a stunning mozo pro shock and it's a fantastic bike to ride brand new back then it was £1,009 .
Yeah you most definitely are right about the hardtail
For me the year mountain biking got real as 1998/9. the bike was a Kona Nu-Nu, it was the first bike I could stand over without crushing my nuts, that i could (just) put on a sub 100mm stem, and my first air fork, Marzocchi Z5. (actually the z5 came on my second one, the first one I had came with RST381s )
The most fun I have EVER had on a bike was 15 years ago riding the Moab Slickrock loop on a 20 year old Trek 400. The downhills were terrifying! There was a couple women in fancy tights on full suspension bikes and one commented to the other, "I don't see how you can enjoy the ride on those old bikes" lol
I ride both and own both, ht's and fullsus. They each have their own uses,IMO. Where's Caption Contest at? lol
Hi #DirtShedShow, I can hear Steve (EMBN) saying that it's all about miles for smiles. Tech = comfort, confort = more miles, more miles = more smiles!
Agree! Went for a ride on my new full-sus bike today, but could have easily done it on my 90s Fat Chance (and been quicker on the road sections!). That said, some trails are so much easier on the bouncy one - different sort of fun.
Well...as I said a couple of years ago, gravel bikes are the effect of roadies discovering mountaing biking is better, but not wanting to say it loud.
Only ever ridden hardtails since I first started mounting biking in 91. Got three ht in my stable now. Rigid fattie, steel ss and ti enduro. It’s all I’ll ever need
I’ve got a Kona ESD and love it. Anytime I try out a duel suspension bike, I shake my head with disappointment and ultimately prefer the hardtail.
9:06 best burn I've ever heard by far....9:10 best save in the history of the Internet. Thanks gents, i spit out my drink watching that one.
Well, I recently upgraded to a full suspension MTB which cost me $2400AUD, from my 15yo hardtail which cost me $1200. The full sus definitely is easier and more fun to negotiate the challenging tracks I ride ( I'm 57 btw). The only downside I have noticed with the full sus is that I can't ride it as fast on the flat due to the gearing. Anyway, I still have the hardtail if I want to ride it.
And, I've never seen a graph where the date goes backward 8:30 lol, it hurts my OCD.
I know, I was trying to work it out as the dates are so small?
At the height (depth)? of the bicycle shortage I found a pair of Specialized Chisels at different bike shops. Way overpriced for what they were, but they had the distinguishing feature of being aluminum hardtails that had the best mix of compliance with the latest standards (correct axles, UDH, provisions for droppers, the return to threaded BBs). The wife's L is still in its mostly stock configuration other than RD/shifter (we both strongly prefer electronic shifting due to hand size/strength) whereas on my M the only stock parts are the frame, the stem and the brakes. They were a wonderful blank canvas for two people starting out XC riding, with differing levels of commitment.
Modern hardcore hardtail are so much fun. I sold my 160mm enduo full Sus and got a steeln150mm hardcore hardtail. I've never had so much fun on a bike.
The full Susser makes everything flat. The hardtail revitalises old trails.
So glad you kept Hounds and Beagles. Eagles and Seagulls, that's an interesting add on. Could be a little risky with the eagles though, they have murder feets and battle axes for beaks, you don't want to get too close unless they're tamed. You forgot Martyn's Bowhead in the bike vault, I bet he has an epic photo of that in the collection somewhere.
So glad I have two 90s GTs hard tail and LTS . Totally agree with you
I had both those bikes. And the RTS too. They still can be a lot of fun but my newer bikes are so much better in every way.
I do kinda agree I have a trek marlin 7 hardtail that I enjoy has new tires,bars and pedals other than that it's stock and I have plenty of fun with it. I would like a better set of forks up front but can't spent 500$ forks
Have a Marlin 5. Got a 2011 Fox 32 100 mm with QR for $75 on Offerup.
Got a Rockshox Recon 130mm on Facebook Market for $55 (Originally being sold for $75) for my GT. Had to buy a new wheelset though. $350 for a complete wheelset and QR conversion kit for the rear wheel, Bontrager Line Comp 30 with 104 point of engagement.
Both work great. People were just trying to unload so they don't have clutter. I also have a Rockshox Judy 120mm that I got for $120 for the same GT.
The Rockshox forks were original parts replaced by better forks. There's a market to find it, you just have to be patient.
Save up and get a higher end hardtail. I went from a marlin 7 to a roscoe 7 and now a roscoe 9 and it is 10000% worth the upgrade. The marlin is downright dangerous with how flimsy it is.
I found a current model shop build SC Hightower 3 with full XT, Lyrik, & i-9 Hyddra for $5k. Yes, it’s 10 x the bike of a $500 hardtail dept store bike.
Yep, I'm a hardtail rider, and will always ride hardtails.
I ride very steep trails with people that ride FS bikes and keep up with them with no problem.
Yes, the best riders on competitions, with FS will always have the upper edge, but that doesn't translate to weekend warriors.
So, I'll never budge and fall into the FS trap
I thought the same thing until I demo rode a pivot switchblade and shadowcat. 100% saving up for a good full sus now but will probably keep the hardtail
For those in the UK who want to be a weekend warrior in the woods and for first time buyers, most will look at full suspension as their first bike because it is a more capable bike overall.
However! Any experienced biker will likely agree that for weekend warrior style uk single track a hardtail is all you need. If not that then a ebike hardtail would cover 90% of peoples needs.
Although what you find is most are middle aged e bikers riding in the peaks with 160mm front and rear. To me they typically look over biked.
Thats not to say buy what you want and do whatever makes you happy!
I really think this is an important point to make to new riders, £500 does seem to be the borderline between "mtb style" hybrids/silly Amazon bike and something that is legitimately a great mountain bike. I still think the difference between my mtb in the mid 90s and what I ride now is negligible. - I've always been at the budget end of the market so maybe I don't know what I'm comparing, or perhaps ignorance is bliss though.
Love my Hardtail....❤. Every ride is a challenge.
I was part of group that rode that day with Andrew Chu. A lot of us took it really hard when we found he had passed -myself included.
Great Point! Totally 100% agree. But, the first point and the most important point of the 3 is the hardest thing to teach. No school in the world can teach it. and it is called "COMMON SENSE". In short, it might appear pointless to people in regards to this conversation if they don't agree to point number 1.
As a Hardtail and full rigid rider. Ive been arguing this point for many years to my full sus budys. Theres knowere they go that i cant go on my hardtail. On that note. Im a trail rider at most. Not a Redbull Rampage rider. I also feel that a first bike hardtail will teach you how to use your legs as suspension. And overall teach you better handling skills. I see to many first time mtb riders on full sus that seem to ride full dead weight. And just plow things. Relying on the suspension vs relying on there own body language.
Great video but why are the graphs backwards? 🤔 I bought a Vitus Sentier 275 for £600. Loved it. Upon a recommendation I decided to upgrade the wheels (waste of £300). Just "upgraded" the frame - Nukeproof Scout - we'll have to see. Dabbled with other people's FS but can't be bothered with the faff.
Damn it martin, you are 100 percent correct. *Goes to the garage for a ride on my flatbar gravel bike* and bypasses my 5k carbon super bike.
Early mountain biking was gravel riding.
I have a steel hard tail and an enduro bike. The enduro bike has been inoperable for about a year and I can’t say I miss it all that much. The hard tail rips.
I think everyone should have a modern hardtail. I do have to say, Canyon has a Spectral 125 CF8 for $4100 and it's carbon with all XT with DT Swiss wheels, so I would half your math on the costs. But that being said, we are still $3k cheaper to get a banger hardtail!
Arms are where we get the most fatigue and thus a suspension fork is extremely helpful. But our legs are monsters and we have a good 200mm of travel with them. There really isn't much I can't ride with my hardtail. Things have to get pretty extreme and pretty fast for me to not be able to ride something on my hardtail and honestly those things are so extreme, most riders wouldn't ride them on any bike. Even from a comfort perspective, a modern hardtail is pretty comfortable. I prefer 4130 Chromoly steel or titanium for a hardtail over aluminum simple because they are more comfortable. But if you run a 2.6 tire you can run a lower pressure and have a comfortable ride over the rough stuff.
Full suspension is overrated. I do have 2 full suspension bikes, a Canyon Spectral 125 and a Salsa Rustler (130mm) and I feel like I would never want more rear travel than those two and I have ridden a lot of pretty gnarly stuff with them. But again, nothing I wouldn't do on a modern hartail.
i completely agree with the hardtail discussion with martin
Best pitch ever soo true too.
I’m in.
Off to buy a gravel bike / nineties hardtail 😊
But fear not, I’ll still watch Gmbn 🤗
I'm convinced! Get me signed up!
Once in a while a full suspension is a more comfortable ride especially on the knees, but for me i find myself riding the hardtail and gravel bike more and more, hardly use the full suspension.
Martyn, you nailed it but let's also understand, so many people can't afford to buy the expensive bike for their kids and the hard tails provide the best rugged option with lower maintenance costs for a kid to absolutely shred on , still go hit jumps, trails on an absolutely minimal budget and still have a real cool bike to cruise the neighborhood on, go to the corner store for a drink and ice cream with his mates . I love my one.
Sad to hear about Andrew Chu's passing. Never a good thing losing riders in such a way.
I have to agree that hardtails are the best. Although I now have a 2024 Bullit, I still ride my 2010 Orange Crush (26 inch) every Sunday with my grandson and love every minute. I would NEVER sell it!
Wil gmbn racing be covering this years/season xc,enduro,downhill?
Live or highlights ?
That 90s $500 bike is probably equivalent to a $5K bike in today's economy. I started on a hardtail and got my full sus last year. Still have them both but the full sus is my go to.
Why do you I ride hardtail and mountain bike in general?
Because it's hard, challenging and I like the rough ride. Also, extensive use of "body suspension" is a good workout.
I got my first full sus just under a year ago and then one day I rode my freinds Hardtail and I was like wow this thing is fun to ride easy to climb
Huge HT fan. I have e both a full sus and a Nukeproof Scout 290 that is built up. I find myself grabbing the HT 80+% of the time! 15:27
Love my Specialized Epic Hardtail.
Surely it's standard practice for the origin of a graph to be on the bottom left of the graph, not right hand side.
My 1998? Trek 4300 is absolutely terrifying to ride these days.
I remember it being awesome! Comparatively, it's really not functional anymore...
You didn’t have to prove it to me - I was always in the “hardtails are the best” camp!
I've been racing a Saracen Kili recently, very 90s.. I also run a bike workshop so get to ride all sorts.
500 quid bikes are pretty good by comparison with the 90s Kili but not as quick off the mark, probably due to wheel weight and geometry. Getting over roots and rocks are going to be easier on the modern stuff so you'd not get so battered racing on a modern bike.
90 minutes racing the Kili is hard work, I haven't tried a modern bike in a race, had 20 years out of the cult😂 ... if I decide to race seriously next year I'll likely invest, in the meantime a couple of races at Cannock coming up for the Saracen.
Cheers.
I Agree Martin and especially love your comment about MJ 😂
Most definitely love my ht ns eccentric
I appreciate the amount of adult ADD that went into this production 😂
Hi I have a giant talon 3 and love it the best bike I've ever owned
2000 to 2024 was a steep ramp
29er suspension tech and geo
a enduro 170mm is like a DH bike and brakes
just the prices a alot
😂alots changed since the muddy fox courier or sorcerer pro, ragley big al is my hardtail, im not the best of technical terrain rider, but i can ride it all day👌😎
Here in Canada you can buy the same milk from the same farm packed into “no name”, “brand name”, and “organic” boxes, and having different price tags. It is marketing. It is to cover different market segments. Who knows, maybe buyers of 10k bikes pay for R&D so that buyers of 0.5k bikes can get better bikes?
Hi please sat upload for hounds and beagles as we have 2 beautiful brothers to show you
Ref hardtails - I absolutely love my hardtail it can gravel it can xc and do more - best bike ever
I love my Specialized Rockhopper!
Most definitely. Luv my Cannondale ht. Iv had it since 2017. Iv upgraded a few parts n that but it's still goin strong. N in all the time iv own it iv had 1 puncture n I'm still using the original tubes. Luv all the content too guys n girls thanks
I spent 800$ for a hard tail .malrin bobcat trail 4. Only upgrade is the pedals 😅 its been throgh alot
There's a saying about fancy bikes and parts being jewellery for people who don't wear jewellery, there's probably something to it.
I have my first ever visit to Hadleigh bike park on Sunday on a 20-year-old Specialised Hardrock with a leaky fork, I'll edit this if I survive
Can't say hardtails are the best (because I've never had/rode a full sus) but I love my Trek xcalibre 8 Perfect for XC ❤
It all depends on the rider, the levels and the confidence in ability, if all those above are all high, then so will the thirst for spending that WONGA……!!! But yes your getting the best of the best mountain Bike right now for very little dosh, whatever those level are, in my humble opinion. The best way to put it is, all the evolution and experimentation has trickled down to all MTB manufacturers in some way or another.
Hardtails should be steel for the vibration damping properties. Alloy just doesnt cut it. A good steel HT keeps up with a short travel full sus with some tweaks to line choice.
Sticking with an aluminum hardtail. Who tf wants a 40lb hardtail lmao
@DB-sd3cw my hardtail made from Reynolds tubing is about 12kg or 26lbs in Yank units. I haven't even seen steel full sussers over 40lb??
@kingflynxi9420 no it isn't
@@DB-sd3cw what????
Clicked on the Topeak link but can't see a form to enter? Is it me...?
Love ‘Hounds and Beagles’. I noticed, no beagles. Understandable, because if they’re anything like my beagle, Beanie, they’d be gone, off doing their own trails, the nanosecond of being released from the lead. She’ll rejoin me back at the car a couple of hours later, to be washed down with the bike.
I love this proof. Stop worrying about the bike and ride
Budget hardtail, how much was that orbea 1200?
Agree, think the years graph should have gone left to right instead of right to left. The $20K bike is better but only 10%? better. Unless you're a pro rider doing massive jumps etc & needing every tenth of a second, the decent hardtail is good enough for most riders. I have a 2023 Polygon Syncline C5 carbon hardtail - love it 😍 Vis on my channel.
Does anyone know what hardtail orbea is shown on the video?
Was hoping for some more Laufey shredding
I my family we have a trek Procaliber 9.6 what is are dog bikes that has all the dog pulling stuff on it
Ridden 26” wheeled hardtails from 1991- 2024.. just got my first 29” and full sus and laughing my head off !!!
Restarted riding in 2011. Got a rigid SS. Now I have a hardtail, that I built. I bought a cheap bike for the frame and built it up from parts. Full Sus...Y Hardtail always & forever!
Have a Full Sus, but ride the hardtail the most. Also hardtail is better for tech, rocky climbs....Take the HT for all the big rides.
90s bikes are great!
Please play another game of trick cards ❤
I would love to see Blake doin Hardtail VS Full sus, again (?) 😂
And a good steel hardtail is even better, the pinnacle of mtb's. while i understand 15k bikes are unreal but for the average person that crazy money bang for buck you can get better than a steel hardtail
I think rose coloured glass nostalgia has gotten the better of Martin. Bikes have advanced more than what he's said. The best bikes of the 90s were not 90% as good as the best bikes of today.
I rode mtb in the 90s.
Hes out of his mind😅
i've entered a local enduro on my scout, my legs are not happy with me :)