Do We Actually Want Electric Bike Tech? | Dirt Shed Show 476
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- čas přidán 20. 05. 2024
- This week on the GMBN Dirt Shed Show, Martyn Ashton and Owen Coutts react to a recent poll we did. Do the public actually want electronic bike parts?
Plus MTB News, Sickest Thing, Hacks And Bodges, Caption Contest, and we check out some super nice MTBs Dogs 🐾 locked away in the Bike Vault!
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00:24 - Does MTB want electric bike tech? 🤔
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14:19 - Shop GMBN
15:36 - Things We Liked
19:09 - Caption Contest
20:52 - On The Channel
21:35 - Bike Vault
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What are your thoughts on electronic bike parts?
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What are your thoughts on electronic bike parts? 🤔
To me, electronics are an added complexity that doesn't need to be there. At the end, you're doing the same thing for the same result. You're still pushing a button to change a gear. All you are doing is changing the medium on how the derailleur gets its info.
To me, electronics are for the techno dweebs that has to have the latest greatest thing that they think the cool kids are riding.
I personally am going to ride mechanical for as long as it's available.
I'm wondering if we should have hydraulic mechs...or oiled carbon thread rope, neither stretch or wear out like a cable mech...
Electronics for sure! Just take a spare just in case! It's easier for tuning and no cables! AXS rule! Also for the ones that have internal routing is a nightmare.. Have a few friends that are switching for electronics because of the inner cables having issues...
I'm not against electronic bike parts, but I don't have any issue that they would solve. Obviously I don't mind the handlebars spaghetti. I've heard from one guy that he uses wireless droppers now exclusively, because he had to change the dropper cable every other month. If my cables would rot like that, I'd go for wireless as well.
I want the most reliable parts with the least amount of maintenance so I can just ride, however that’s implemented.
Also, don’t take that poll result seriously. A similar poll asking if people really wanted dropper posts, disk brakes, suspension, etc, when they were new would have also majority nayed because that’s just what polls do whenever they ask about change.
Call me a boomer but I ride to disconnect and reset. The least tech, batteries and apps I have to worry about the better.
I absolutely agree. The beautiful thing about biking (well, it use to be), was the fact that you can get away from everything electronic, digital, etc
You better not be using navigation to find your way on trails you are not familiar with!
@@FIGHTTHECABLE I don't actually, it takes away the "adventure" factor and the GPS drains battery quickly. I'm pretty decent at planning the route and finding my way. Getting lost is fun too. I've found some awesome spots by going off route more than once.
I can't call you a boomer for that, it's boomers who go and spend big money on ebikes and such just to ride their local rail trails, because they need to make the flattest gravel and paved roads as comfortable as possible. I ride bikes of all ages on a variety of terrain that can be anything from paved roads to serious mountain bike trails, often in the same ride for the same reason you don't want all the fancy tech. I just want to jump on my bike and ride.
Hard no from me. I just cannot be arsed to make sure all batteries are loaded all the time
As i just stated in a comment, Shimano Di2 is the better choice. 1 battery with a display to see all info.
The best so far is Pinion and its MGU E12.1 drive train system.
E-Mtb and the shifting comes from the large up to 960Wh battery. The motor dies before the shifting dies, due to safety margins. The bike won't have motor assist, but atleast you can still pedal up that hill.
The price is genuinely the main thing that has made me avoid electronic parts for MTB. I thought XTR groupsets were expensive until AXS came around.
My mate had fully electric shifting and dropper, great until he forgot to charge it. Nevermind that though. Modern cable drive train works perfectly for years without much maintenance at all. Gone are the days of having to change the cable once a year. The cables outlast the derailleur these days.
E-gearing solves a problem from 10 years ago that doesn't exist any more.
Of course the industry is pushing electronics, higher prices and margins.
Yes, you can literally buy a motorcycle for the price of good bicycles these days. That's a bad value proposition that isn't sustainable, IMO
I'm definitely sticking with mechanical shifting. I went for a ride the other day with a mate of mine. And within a few minutes of setting off he realised his battery was flat for his electronic shifting. He had to do the whole ride in quite a high gear. He'd basically not ridden the bike for a while & forgot to charge the battery. Needless to say he was in a high gear & he struggled all day. Even on the flat sections. We had to cut the ride short ( a bit).
That is why so many companies are going out of business because they are out of touch with riders and consumers. They also cannot seem to figure out that a good quality Motorcycle is cheaper than 60% of basic pedal bikes and 80% of e-bikes. While a motorcycle has superior brakes and forks than an MTB and a motor to boot,
Electronic shifting is great for many people imo, I think a lot of people are just change resistant. But I have ADHD and really struggle with organization and losing my things/forgetting my things, I already forget something almost every ride, and I would 100% forget to charge my battery, or, plug it in to charge it and then forget it entirely. So I would never spend the extra bread for something I know I'm not built for.
Look into Pinion MGU E12.1
E-MTB with one battery that powers it all. You forget to charge your bike, you're not going anywhere anyway.
Wow! I was blown away with the poll on e-shifting. I thought I was in the tiny minority that preferred mechanical shifting (even though one of my bikes has AXS).
me too ... Im not changing my mind ... like I use GPS too and my bike has a GPS thief prevention so if it gets knicked I can find it
I personally figure a quarter (or even less) of the MTB community can ever afford electronic shifting, and the poll is very close to ‘who can and who cannot’ afford said new tech. Absolutely nothing wrong with that view. I see e-shifting as mentioned in the video as ‘is you can afford it, it’s better’. Virtually every rider doesn’t need it, but if the financial risk is low enough for a buyer, the purchase is justified.
@@peggz223It's not even a matter of being able to afford it. Because even if you can the value just isn't there. It's not going to make 99% of riders any faster and the ease of shifting is offset by the hassles it introduces.
@@plmn93 in my experience, the three (mech shift) bikes I’ve rode over the years have had either worn down cable/housing or shift lever failures. Last two years on Sram AXS and Transmission: nada, no trips to the bike shop regarding shifting issues. Having to charge a derailleur battery for ten minutes after every handful of rides is totally worth it, you get what you pay for.
Deore/SX to XTR/XX1 doesn’t make 99% of cyclists faster either.
@@peggz223 In my experience with several mountain bikes with thousands of miles on each, I have never had a cable housing or shifter failure. Glad you like your AXS.
And in the shadows, the gearbox grows stronger.. 😱
Still too heavy, give it a few years
And belt drive. My biggest annoyance with mountain biking is keeping the drivetrain clean.
@@dougnico2492Maybe not for XC, but I think it's at the point now where it's viable for trail bikes. Cost is still high though.
No we don't need them, it just adds more things to go wrong and charge with no real advantage
The three times I've gone biking with people who have a wireless deraileur, they have had problems with it during the ride all three times.
Thats interesting and surprising to hear.
There are only two reasons why the bike manufactures have shifted to wireless groups sets.
1) the group sets have better margins (ie more profit).
2) wireless groups are easier to install/faster than traditional group sets. This time savings means more bikes built without a corresponding increase in labor cost. (ie more profit)
Best thing about electric gears, it makes mechanical xtr seem positively reasonably priced.
Ive only ridden 12 speed xtr once. Shifters were very precise feeling like a fine Swiss watch. My new xt feels great but still a tick below xtr.
Why there is no Isaac anymore?
Got the GX AXS on my Relay, and for me, it's much less faff wit that than the 1x12 on my other bike.
Wires, clutter, fiddly to get to work after a wipe out.
The AXS is a LOT sturdier and just works (as long as there's juice) so an extra battery is a good tip 😉
There is definetely space on the market for more wireless dropperposts
Yep, reverb is too expensive considering how dodgy my manual reverb was.
Yes full on , on Shimano only. Massive battery , usually lasts 3 months with every day commuting use of 1 hour total. When out bikepacking I always carry a charging cable. Once, I ran out of battery because I wanted to test how long it would last . Gone to the nearest bike shop, charged it for 15 minutes, and got a charge that lasted a month .
Worth to mention that with a charging cable, you can charge it with your phone if it supports charging output!
I love my axs and actually i have had the battery mounted for i think 3 months now without charging and i dis actuate the gears every day for consistent testing even if i didnt ride this day and my battery still has around 20% left. So what im trying to say is that if you remember to look at the little light on your derailleur every once in a while you can have very consistent results which in my opinion are absolutely worth the higher price.
Have T type and love it. I get the comments about price but the ones about battery life and charging are just silly.
Absolutely I might charge my battery every few hundred miles. I just keep the charger in my car and if I remember I'll randomly throw the battery on the charger on my way to a trailhead. Probably only charged it 6 times last year in about 1200+ miles.
There it is the truth the batteries last for a good amount of time they don't need to be charged every ride!
#captioncontest. Blake missed Sea Otter this year so he went for the next best thing. Puddle Ferret.
A phone camera lens at full zoom will never be as good as a 600mm lens for quality.
I was at the Dirty Riever last weekend. Tubeless flats all over the place, mechs done in, and hydraulic breaks shot with no support for them there.
I did the 200km for my first cycling event on a 26inch rigid mtb with drops, tubed, cable gears and cable disk breaks.
Total issues.... needed to tighten a limiter screw when I dropped the bike pulling a hammy 40 miles in and lost my top end gear till I stopped and fixed it in 20 seconds.
Dont think thats bad for a FB jobby from a injured vet and a few changes, total cost under £500.
Old tech still works and a spare cable is easier to carry than whatever you'd need to fix di2 100 miles deep.
Love your logic keep it up.
"Uninterested" or "uninterested in paying that much for it?"
I say that knowing fully well that the next drivetrain update/upgrade I get will be to a mechanical system. I work with enough technology to know that I prefer to never have to rely on hoping something works. I can fix a mechanical drivetrain. I can't necessarily fix a wireless drivetrain.
keep a spare battery in your bag simple, T Type on an e-bike game changer + if you have an integrated headset less cables running through your top bearing.
Lens technology never really got advanced and compressed into phone format. Modern lens is as basic as in cameraphones some 15 years ago. It got replaced by smart quality enhancing algorithms. Now what did help, was the compression of computation chips and sensing matrices, which happened purposefully for phones too
I have five bikes with mechanical and one with AXS. The batteries are never an issue. I switch it out once a month. takes about 5 seconds. never leaves me stranded. Thant said I do like mechanical and will continue to use it on my other bikes.
The issue with sram electronic is, it has many batteries and to my knowledge no display with battery indicator.
Shimano has a single battery with a display which you can see all the info. And it will tell you the battery is about to die. Range shimano Di2 is what, 2000km? Never have I been stuck on a trail with an empty battery.
Now I have a Pinion MGU and now it's even less an issue. The motor will be shut off before your shifting stops working, due to capacity margins left for the shifting and bine lighting.
Electronic shifting is the future, if you like it or not.
I don't know because I don't have them but on say Electronic dropper posts I hold the lever in and will set the seat at a times somewhere in the middle. Is that even possible with a wireless dropper? Also with shifting that 3 gear skipping on one throw of the lever vs pushing a button three time still seems desirable to me.
I have never used electric gears or electric droppers. I'm curious about them, but I'm not making it a priority in any future bike or parts purchases. Martyn's situation is not the first time i have heard of this happening to other users of of electric gears.
Electronic shifting is a literal deal breaker. I've been put off by higher spec build because of electronic shifting.
I'm not so much in to electronics on my bike because there is already enough stuff I need to check and get ready before each ride, but I test rode a friends bike with the SRAM transmission yesterday and shifting under full load was incredible! If there was a cable operated version of that I'd be all over it.
To avoid the issue of the battery on AXS derailieur running out mid ride , why not also have a cable running into the derailieur and a standard shifter mounted on the bar than you could just switch to the mechanical system if the battery runs out. Best of both worlds! On a more serious note , new bike came with electronic shifting. I like it , especially having one less cable and the robocop noise with each clean crisp shift. No plans to switch my other bikes to electronic though as mechanical works just fine at a fraction of the cost.
Well... I think, they are cool, electronics. but, it's best suitable for E-bikes. I enjoy riding my MTB, the whole day and night, sometimes. Nothing to worry about the range anxiety of the batteries.
Love my AXS, it makes adjusting everything so much easier and no fiddling with cables. In 3 yrs I've only had my battery die on me once and that was completely my fault because It rarely needs charging. No big deal because after a 15 minute delay I was out for a 3 hour ride..
I’ve upgraded to the XX Eagle AXS E-Bike Transmission, T-Type on 2022 Levo Pro and love it. The Levo TCU will give me a Low Battery warning when the AXS battery is running low. Also I carry a second AXS battery in my CamelBak if the battery was to die out on the trail.
Yes I do, but honestly more on my road bike, then on my MTB. There are very few people who ever tried electronic shifting on a road bike and wanted to go back. Said that I did recently bought mid range MTB and I didn't splash for electronic shifting as I felt it is far easier to damage it on MTB. I absolutely adore it on my road bike, and I was willing to splash the cash, but I didn't feel the need for it on my MTB and I don't miss it. I do miss it on my gravel bike though and I am trying to figure out how to update for cheap-ish... Thanks for the sram apax I might have an acceptable way (from the price point of view)
My XT mechanical works great but after 34 years of Rapidfire shifting my thumbs are a little tender. The clutches add resistance too. A light tap on a shifter might be nice.
I upgraded to SRAM AXS GX and after 2 years of use have the following verdict:
Not worth it.
Reason: I had to abort two rides due to batteries dying. First one was the rear mech battery, so I'm bringing a spare with me every ride since. And the second one was the trigger battery after 1.5 years. I know I should have changed it, but i forgot, and unfortunately the battery status does not show in garmin connect rides, which would probably not be that difficult, since my head unit does connect with my rear mech to show which gear I'm in.
Also I find the previous generation Sram rear mech, the one that bolt onto the mech hanger, is too bulky, which requires me to realign the mech hanger more than with a lighter, cable actuated mech.
As an engineer, I do see the benefits of eliminating the rear mech hanger, which Sram did exeptionally well with it's newest gen of AXS rear mechs and I really like the design of how its integrated into modern frames.
I'm hoping that they will release a less expensive cable actuated version in future.
I haven't tried, but i don't really get what it's all about.
Also, you put less maintenance for battery gears... is charging the battery not maintenance?
IF you have SRAM, how small are those batteries? You could easy carry a backup.
Checking battery should be part of your pre-ride check just as checking tyres if you have electronic. I think the battery excuse is a non-issue.
Also, if you did not regular service your bike and replace your gear cable, you could have a cable snap and be stranded as well.
More the point is, cost, reliability, serviceability and eco friendly. Where you sit on these to me is more the deciding factor if you choose electronic shifting.
Mountain bikes are complex enough to maintain as they are. This just adds another level. Plus from what I saw on your video, the parts looked really exposed, how easy would they be to break or damage in a stack! To me the benefits are not sufficient to overcome the downsides. Id prefer to stay mechanical, my fingers will cope with the extra effort 😊
Great video as always,I actually giggled a few times. Regarding tall the electronics on bikes. Personally I think it's a case of making bikes impossible for the owner to service themselves so it has to go back to the shop every time, that's if you can find a shop that will look after them. As for the batteries running out, if the parts are fitted to an e-bike you'd it not make sense to have them hooked into the main battery rather than a separate battery to remember to charge
I have it on my slopeduro specifically to delete the cable for barspins. I hate the sensitivity of the shifter though, it's too easy to accidentally command a shift if you hit the shifter against you leg on a big pull or catch a bar spin etc.
On the road bike, absolutely yes, on the MTB, Shimano 12s mechanical is just so good, you don‘t need anything else. Of course bike manufacturers love AXS because it saves labour cost for routing the cables through the frame AND they think they can sell the bike for more.
I have both kinds on my mountain bikes. One is a GX eagle mechanical and the other is an X01 AXS on shimano cogs and chain. If that X01 broke, I would just put the SLX mech back on, but I have no intention of doing that before it does. They are basically equal in terms of fun and performance. In my work at a big bike shop, I have ridden pretty much every kind of mountain drivetrain, and I would choose XT or X01 mechanical over any Transmission product any day. The electronic advantages are numerous and incredible for ebikes, but I can’t stand being unable to ride because no amount of updates or repositioning can get my derailleur acting right. IN summary, I am neutral because it just comes down to the use case and rider preferences. I am not racing, so I lean toward reliability and ease of repair (mechanical) in all but my enduro/jumpline riding because I want crisp, sure shifts (AXS) when I am going fast and need all my balance and focus on the trail.
This is exactly why I went with Mechanical Shimano XT on my new bike after riding Sram AXS for a couple years. I would forget my battery charging at home or the battery would die. Never had that problem with DI2 but the fear that i would run out of battery would always be in my mind.
Martyn, if you are having tendon issues in your arm, get a gyro ball. Use it in each hand, 4 times a day for 5 minutes at a time. I promise you that your tendon problems will go away. A gyro ball flosses the muscles, ligaments and tendons in your arm. It gets the blood and other fluids flowing and it pumps the inflammation out of your arm. I had this problem so bad that I couldn’t do anything. I suffered for 8 months with pain. Until a physio told me to get a gyro ball. I thought he was crazy. But, within three weeks I was pain free.
Electronic gear poll: Do the same poll but ask which would you choose if the price were the same. How would your vote change?
that's a great idea! Whats your prediction?
@@gmbn I've never owned electronic ones. My guess is that the numbers would reverse (75% would go electronic) if they cost the same. The advantages would outweigh the disadvantages. But hey, that's why you have polls - run it and let's find out!
@@JoelZieve well, here you have one guy that wouldn't change 🙄
Simplicity über alles
But price isn't same, and won't be even close for next 10+ years)
@@valentinkarachun7490 I agree. But that "different" poll will tell us if price is the reason 75% don't want it or if there are other reasons.
Go bike packing with a electronic group set thru gnarly river crossings with crappy weather and no way to recharge the batteries for a week's worth of riding, seriously a bad combo. Do the same bike packing trip with a mechanical groupset , one hell of a epic trip even with bike repairs & same maintence time. Been there done that , electronic group sets only get put into the rubbish bin with me, all my bikes are full mechanical groupset now.
And cables are lightweight and easy to carry.
I ride Shimano XTR 11spd on three bikes - won't be changing soon. Got mates with AXS, when I jump on those I don't jell with it. I think an excellent cable setup will be looked at the same way as a great manual gearbox. Flappy paddles don't give you the same visceral feedback.
Mechanical shifting has been dialed in for decades, and it works really well, but electric gears work perfectly. I have three bikes with mechanical shifting (road, mt, and commuter), I just bought a gravel bike with Di2 last year. It is so much better. So. Much. Better. I have to charge the battery maybe once a summer. I never hesitate to shift because I know it will be perfect every time. I am never finagling my chain onto a larger cog, or fiddling with the cable tension. It just works.
I absolutely love axs and will never switch to mechanical again.
Battery life is not a problem. I can change gears about 4000-5000 times before I need to change the battery and have never run out of power.
More expensive, absolutely. But better in every way.
Long(ish) time mechanic - mechanical stuff is fine and absolutely still has its place. There is a subset of my customer base though that should probably just suck it up and go electronic. IME many people don't do, or don't understand the proper maintenance to keep a mechanical group operating accurately, and then bring it to me saying "it hasn't worked well in months of hard riding" (I have several rants queued up there). Between electronic shift, and hydraulic brakes, many who have made the switch are now simply replacing chains, cassettes, and brake pads/rotors when worn, with the occassional brake bleed tossed in. Many don't notice poor shifting even with well worn parts (fair enough, most people are shocked to hear their bike barely works with mechanical groups, but I digress).
Most of my riders have their systems paired with their head units for various data points, and the sram users often just carry a spare battery if they're at all concerned. Relatively speaking, they are small, light, and not that expensive, and charging just becomes part of their routine. While I would never suggest over extending your budget to get electronic, or for applications like long distance touring, digital systems set up properly are pretty damn stable and there's a reason many don't look back.
The hard reality is you are making a trade with either system. Digital - you're trading money, and the management of batteries for the long term convenience of not thinking about cables and adjustments, a very clean look, and a high degree of modularity and ease of use for disabilities or customization. Mechanical - you're trading a bit more maintenance, and fiddling, for not having to ever think about battery or an update.
Which ever side you prefer, just ride your damn bike and enjoy it. Quit whining about what someone else is riding, or prefers. We spend thousands upon thousands of dollars to hurt ourselves. None of this makes any sense at all anyway.
Since starting mountain biking 30+ years ago I've noticed that the MTB industry has always pushed the limits and is constantly in development. I can see the advantage of electronic gears especially if upgrading an internally routed gear cable. I tried SRAM E.Gs on a Nukeproof Reactor on a demo day and I wasn't impressed 🤨.
I tried electronic gears but wouldn't buy them myself. They shifted great but I didn't like the lack of feedback through the shifter...like when you hit the limit screw and know there are no more clicks... I kept pressing the button to see if another gear was there. Overall I just found a mechanical Sram GX shifter felt better and more intuitive.
At my riding level - weekend enjoying trying to improve on the trails - electronic stuff would be wasted on me. Remembering to charge my and wife's Garmin activity watches is enough! My cable operated derailleur works just fine. Cables it is for me!
I have just had AXS fitted because I have had a stroke and my right hand doesn’t work very well so just pressing a button is a lot easier.
True. Ive been riding Shimano paddles for 34 years and my thumbs are a little tender. Especially with the clutches adding resistance too. I accidentally left the clutch off today and the shifting was noticeably easier.
It's cool to have, but it's definitely not needed. But it's probably the future of mountain biking. Isn't the electric transmission heavier?
This is similar the the rear shock. It started as Coil, then to air, but know alot of people going back to Coil.
I don't think cable derailleur is going away. Good thing is that the price might hopefully go down.
17:18 THAT'S WILD!!!! i have no clue how resistant the frame would be to impacts and stuff but that's the coolest most insane thing i have ever seen
As someone who is about to get axs for 1 of his bikes, I was looking to upgrade from nx and when looking at gx I saw the axs upgrade kit and thought why not
If was buying a full group would go mechanical every time for cost reasons, if money was no object would go axs I think as am lazy
Love my tyre wiz, had them 4 years now and I ride about 4000miles a year in all weather. Had axs a year now and just yesterday upgraded to type t. I love it all 😊
i love my wireless gears. my 2 bikes with electronic gears are 1 x 12. makes 1 battery per bike to have an eye on. i always carry 1 spare battery for the rear mech on both bikes. the shifters never really run out. but i always have 2 or 3 of those cr2023 in my saddlebag anyway because i might need one for the hr sensor or the powermeter ..
Its worth considering why the industry is introducing electronic shifting in the first place. I studied Industrial product design in the 90's where we reviewed the manufacturing and cost benefits of electronic windows on cars which were being introduced at the time verses wind-up windows. 30 years on it seems like a very similar situation. In the automotive world it was cheaper to produce, manufacture and assemble an electric window mechanism. This is because less components were produced leading to reduced assembly time. At the time electric windows were sold at a premium offering a greater profit for the manufacturer. The same could be said for electronic gears, the big advantage the manufacture gains is reduced assembly and set up time. Cables require additional components and assembly where electronic gears are a single bolt on component. If you are purchasing electronic gearing currently the premium price reflects a lower volume production but as they increase in popularity the price to the manufacturer will reduce through increased volume and the profit margin grow. Its probably worth noting that manufacturers of electronic gears are also piggybacking off of high volume standard component, batteries for example could be taken from existing high volume production lines such as mobile phones. All manufactures in any industry will plan years ahead for value engineering products that ultimately offer cheaper long term benefits to us the consumer, but for me in the end the choice between electronic gears will be a personal one. Its taken me 30 long years to perfect gear set up with cables!! i will be staying with them for the foreseeable
Mechanical gears are brilliant but I also love my AXS, never had any issues with either tbh
Electronic gears are a "nice to have" but not necessary - unless you take racing seriously. There is more interest on road for non-competitive riders than off-road, but the same principle remains. The battery dying is just a different problem, not necessarily a worse problem, to a mechanical shift failure; had Martyn had a snapped cable he would have been in a similar situation. It's just a problem most of us are not used to as opposed to most of us knowing how to bodge a broken cable to get home.
Tried electronic shifting on the fat bike and it worked well enough but it was just too much of a hassle to worry about whether the batteries were charged and went back to cable a couple weeks ago and won't be reverting back. I have EPS on one of my road bikes and it's been a dream but I wouldn't do it again and have went with good old cable shifting on the Colnago Master I built after I built the Colnago EPS with EPS as again mechanical is reliable and works great and is one less worry
Bikes are meant to be environmentally friendly and we are adding batteries to them. Great stuff
There is a certain tactile feeling with mechanical shifting absent in electronic shifting. Unfortunafely SRAM and Shimano dont seem interested in investing mechanical shifting in the higher trims
I had xtr derailleur and xtr shifter i install last summer archer components electronic shifter its good but xtr was also good after a year the archer shifter motor burned the cie said no warranty only a deal on a new shifter so im back with my mechanical xtr shifter i actually like the feel and nothing to charge 😊 if something goes wrong it will be cheaper to fix or change
For me, the bicycle is primarily a form of relaxation and an escape from electronics and daily challenges
Exactly what a car used to be.
My view is simple and will never change.
I ride to get deep into nature and anything electronic becomes a huge turn off. I'm happy there are people that enjoy it, but I will never have any of that on my bike until I reach an age/injury where I would need a motor.
I want E gears because unless ure on top of maintenance the shift button gets harder and harder and on an ebike,like mine,changing the outer is very involved. Running out of a gear battery would be the latest thing ever though.
Caption Challenge:
"I don't crash, i taste the flavor of the dirt"
Nope. Cable actuated is field serviceable. If a servo, battery, or controller goes in the backcountry, you’re out of luck.
I have 3 bikes (2x normal shift, 1x AXS) and cannot feel the need to be particularly offended either way. The chat about perceived 'hassle' about charging the battery is a bit mad though lol. I've ridden ~120 miles this week and only charged it after that to be careful/not even checked how low it was. The shifting with AXS is amazing under load blah blah you've all heard it before. Also if you run out of battery, you're not locked into the gear because there's an external switch (emergency obv). Bottom line is nobody is forcing you to buy it. If you dont want it, dont get it. Not going to get behind the cost though - that can get in the sea and manufacturers need to stop taking the piss. We all want cheaper/more accessibility, it doesnt have to be a 'team' thing. Camera analogy doesnt really apply imo. Software vs hardware - results are still miles apart.
I see electronic shifting and such as a solution in need of a problem. I suspect the bike industry is pushing it because they need something new and, as implied with the hardtail discussion on the dirt shed show two weeks ago, we're approaching peak mountain bike. We're not likely to go with bigger wheels. Geometry has gotten damn near perfect. Suspension is very good now. Hydraulic disc brakes and dropper posts were gamechangers. What else is there that can be greatly improved? Not much as far as I can see so we end up with the needlessness of electronic shifting.
Im not against the idea of all of this electronic crap that SRAM seems hell bent on bringing to market, it's just that it costs too much for claims to solve problems I don't really have. Until it's as cheap as equivalent mechanical stuff I'm sticking with mechanical, and even if the price came down to the level of current mechanical drivetrains if that resulted in mechanical becoming even cheaper I would probably smile and stick with the old stuff. You hit the nail on the head with the "Good enough" comment, I'm not at all interested in paying three times the price for a part that is still going to be a consumable at the end of the day.
As far as all of the electronic suspension goes, I don't ever see myself buying something like that. Give me a Marzocchi fork with the good old grip damper, and let me rip.
Electronic shifting makes sense only on pinion - because battery is better than gripshift xd
An analogy might be 3D TVs, when the TV industry said "This is what you need" and the customers universally said "Meh, no thanks".
Only electric thing on my Bike is the Garmin. I choose and build my bike for easy maintenance and reliability. I'm an electronic technician myself and don't want to fiddle around with some proprietary parts from a bike manufacturer to keep my bike running. God ol' Shift cable, external cable routing, a closed gearbox, beltdrive.
I rode AXS wireless shift for one season and pretty much hated it. No advantages. None. And many disadvantages. I've 'upgraded' to mechanical.
The bike industry expects everyone to own a Lamborghini and a lot of us have fallen for it. This idea that we're all entitled to a top tier superbike is bonkers, given that just a little over 20 years ago you'd show up at your local downhill race with a Deore spec'd XC hardtail with a short stem and a Maxxis High Roller up front. V brakes too, or maybe some Magura rim brakes if you managed to scab a used pair.
I haven't tried electric but mechanical has been around and improved since day dot. Do we really need batteries on a normal bike except for lights when riding at night?
1:43 Wouldn't it be good to implement a preselected gear to which the gearbox then shifts as soon as the battery hits 1%. Maybe even make it possible to choose the gear through a simple software which connects via bluetooth. I think electronic parts have huge potential, but they are too simplified for edge cases like these, and that's the main reason I drive mechanical components only, I just don't want to think about battery life.
Axs tends to work a little better but I run cables on my bikes too
no
I would for sure take electronic gears, suspension, and other parts on my bike if the cost would ether be the same or like $100 more. Though with electronic gears in particular. I think gearboxes are the future in gearing as currently I don't think there are that far off from being just as good or better then current derailleur systems.
In my opinion it’s a novelty. I bought SRAM axs then returned it and just bought GX and been happy ever since. Can’t get down with charging my bike parts, also I’m about being self sufficient and having to charge batteries for a derailleur and so on isn’t really part of that. It’s cool, but the novelty wears out fast.
Electronic gears work great on my road bike and I've only been caught out with a dead battery once and I swapped front/back batteries and got home fine. But price is a big issue and I don't ride my MTB enough to justify spending the money
Don’t forget another con is the weight. AXS XX1 is heavier than XTR and XX-SL is heavier than the both. If you really want light weight go with the XX1 11sp which is a lot lighter than all of them.
I love the electronic advancements, but I am horrible at keeping my battery devices charged. Case in point, I use a cabled set of headphones so I never have to worry about running out of juice for my tunes.
The best part about electronic stuff is when you get your bike out the garage and it doesn't work even though it worked just fine when you put it away.
😂😂😂 did not expect to tick off "traildogging" on my GMBN bingo card
I have AXS on my analog bike and cable on my ebike. If it was not for cost I would have AXS on the ebike. Definitely not needed by very nice. As far as the battery, I lube my chain, I check my battery. No biggie. And the batteries last a long time.
The pro level gear hitting the shelves is because its a declining market. They have excessive inventory and better to sell it to someone if the race teams aren’t willing to or are going with other options
Mechanical forever for me - I don't need more batteries to babysit in my life. Not speaking about price - when I had finally messed up my XT 12x derailleur beyond adjustability, I could get a new one for 70€ (and could have just gotten an SLX or Deore with barely any noticeable difference for even less)
I would only use electronic gears on my bike if it came with them. When the chain wears out. I would the change the transmission to Shimano mechanical. Which explains why I only look for mechanical gears.
I am a devote non E drivetrain guy until just recently. I swapped one of my bikes to AXS out of necessity and love it. Its so darn easy to use. No cable drag to worry about. Just have to keep track of the battery life.