CAN You Tune The New S650 Mustang??? We Speak To The Top Mustang Tuners!
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- čas přidán 13. 04. 2023
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If there is one thing about the S650 Mustang that most enthusiasts can agree on its a dislike for the locked ECU. Tuning has always been an important part of Mustang Performance, most big power mods will require a tune. When Ford announced the locked ECU on the S650 Mustang many people felt the end was near, if we can't tune, we can't go faster. There have been other vehicles with locked ECUs and the aftermarket found a way. Will the same thing happen with the S650? We spoke to the top Mustang Tuners in the game to get their thoughts.
#tuning #mustang #supercharger #s650
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Ive been hearing "we won't be able to tune it" since 1987 lol
Hopefully the brain trust in the aftermarket will get it figured out. Until then my boosted s550 will be in my garage.
I have faith it will happen
Awesome! Enjoying the s650 videos!
RTR have really changed my opinion on the looks of the s650 but I’ve only owned my s550 for almost a year so I’ll stick with that for now.
I still like my 21 Mach 1 better.
Very Very good video! Great information for those considering purchasing an S650. Good job fellas!!
Thank you!
I like the S650 but I just bought a Mach 1 last year so I'll hang on to it for a few years.
My worry is the ECU may have a hash stored of the factory configuration. If the current configuration hash deviates from the stored value, the ECU returns to factory config. So you can tune it, but goes back to default when you restart the car. Hopefully this is not the case.
Can't really tune the 22 23 so why would you think this is tunable?
@@merc2275brother what. 22 23 are fully tunable 🤣
I took the carbon trap out of the Mach 1 and gained back the lost HP for 22. No codes no issues since I removed it back last November.
From my understanding that will change with the dual inlet but we will see!
Thank you for your work! I really appreciate you positive, can-do attitude. That, and your Deep Blue 6-Mustang shirt is my favorite Mustang shirt. EVER!
Hopefully they can!
Well, looks like Alex was right all along😎!
I see a big opportunity for a standalone system? Is a plug and play system even possible or is there too much integration between different modules in the car?
I would assume the first tuner was lund. They are the best in the business.
I was gonna say you don’t ask THE OEM Ford tuner for an opinion on OEM ECU’s?
That was my guess as well.
I like the front, but I just bought a 22' leftover specifically because of the back half of the car. But in regards to tuning, my 5th Gen Viper has too many locked perimeters which forced me to run a Motec for a procharger. Thats $10,000min for the ECU. Same thing going on with the C8's.
Wow 10k for a ecu, that sucks!!! I guess lm happy l have a 21 Mustang GT. Atleast mine is tuneable.
@@mikeholmed7029 I think my 22 is
I did see a video interview saying that you can take it to legit places like Shelby to get an official tune but yeah, it's going to be cracked eventually, at most it'll be by the time the production is done of the S650 but eventually it will be done... The PlayStation 3 didn't get its first game genie type crack until the PS4 was pretty much out...
Its worrying that other control modules will look at the ecu ( according to ford ) to detect any change and then you know its limp mode, and OTA reverting by hash...way more invovled than c8 which took 2 years...
I dont blame ford for throwing a flag that voids your warranty but they are OUR cars we should be able to do with them as we damn well please...
Maybe it would open the door to use the Megasquirt as an alternative?
After seeing this the S550 Mustang is definitely the platform to have over the S650.... I would never want a car where they can cyber attack my vehicle and such, on top of making it difficult as all get out to simply upgrade and tune.... boo to the S650 and also the future generations if this is a look at the future.
I hope its not like the process for the 21+ supras that have to get cloned ecus and shipped out to the middle of Russia
we know John lund had some input on this. can't forget how these new cars live Ota updates.. maybe mustang owners will need to send thier ecus to Russia to get unlocked.
I thought the lead engineer already spoke about this in a different Ford video explaining how all the systems in the car will work together and are encrypted? And they all rely on the other to be ready and pass hash before the car will function, as to disallow these new tech thieves from breaking into the car's remote features and being able to steal them? I know thats fords stance on why its going to be impossible to tune, but not being able to tune the cars is going to be a nice by product for Ford in the long run. And is going to limit the buyers of this car to those ok with never modding them.
Why is it nice for Ford? The better way would be to ALERT them with this tech to void warranty but allow the person who OWNS the gd car to do as they please...which would increase sales....not deplete them who the fck besides girls would want a sports car they can't tune that's insanity...just do all eco-boost...what's the track gonna have a 2024 and up class? Lol
I'm running, No Tune Street class...lol
Should have asked alejandro Flores for his opinion
Bill and Alex would be an interesting conversation
@@169abr I have known Alex since the YOLO days lol
@@cjponyparts make somethin happen let’s goooooooooo
@@cjponyparts alejandro responded to this on his last live video
So, what happens if you opt for a base model without WiFi? Personally, I don’t want Ford or my insurance to be able to read any module without my explicit consent.
The main difference between this s650 and the past cars is the fact that the EPA is cracking down on OEM and aftermarket tuning. People claiming C8’s are tunable are not realistic. The black wings and C8’s so far are not reasonably tunable. With that being said any vehicle is tunable. It just depends if people are willing to give up things like A/c, power steering, abs, etc. Everything is tunable via stand alones. It’s just more expensive and less practical for a streetcar.
The OTA possibly is the most concerning thing because they very well may render the factory ecu useless if it will reset back to stock.
I wonder if Ford isn't watching these tuners and will respond with patches to any loopholes they find? Perhapes Ford will consider licensing tuners or maybe offering their own tunes.
The problem I see with the over the air updates is a lot like what they do with gaming consoles nowadays... If you have a device to mod a game and it is detected the next console update Will negate it forcing the mod creator to find a workaround to get it to work again and I see this happening with custom tunes... If they detect that you have modded the ECU somehow they will do an update to cancel out that modification...
One day you doing 220 mph with 820hp, and the next day you back to doing 165 mph and that new update put you down to 360hp instead of 500hp... for playing games 🎮 with the manufacturer settings 🤣🤣
Get a S650 roller, put in a crate engine and transmission. Rip out those screens and set them on fire, out back in proper gauges.
As a console gamer, I'm not trying play against molders & cheaters if your PC Only do what you will, but I appreciate those updates to fix mods & exploits, but if your running mods to play emulators offline on your own dime I can support ya but also understand why Microsoft & Sony Can't.
I just don’t understand the thought process behind locking the ECU. Ford has always been fine with tuning in the past, you could even buy performance parts for practically all mustang engines directly from Ford performance, and the website even stated that the part would require an engine re tune.
So why change it now? What’s the issue? Ford knows how popular the aftermarket is for the Mustang, it’s probably the largest aftermarket for any model of car in history. They have to know that locking the ECU is shooting themselves in the foot. I just don’t get it
It's political. It's Communism slowly being ushered into American by enemies of the country. It's been a work in progress for more than a decade, and it's finally coming to fruition. Namely, China, Russia and UAE, but mainly China. It's all about control...control for our properties (cars, houses, etc), liberties (speech, arms, assembly, etc) and our conscience (trans agenda...making you believe a zebra is a cow, when your own eyes see a zebra). It's time for patriots in every company and levels of society to fight for our American freedoms! 🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲
The answer is simple. It's the Crack down by the government regarding emissions. I've spoken to tuners who now only tune track only vehicles. If you tune your car in a state that requires emission tests and the vehicle fails. It's possible a couple issues can happen. One is your vehicle isn't approved for road use and if the company who completed the tune can also have issues with the government. The other reason for a locked ECU is the vehicles security. My 2018 Chrysler 300C had a locked ECU. I purchased an unlocked one and my tune was completed. Within a year the Gen 4 Coyote will be tunable. Ford apparently is even working with Whipple for a Supercharger for the Gen 4 Coyote. I can't understand all the crying about tuning the new Mustang. At least Ford is still building beautiful new performance V8 Sports cars while Stellantis/ Dodge has dropped their Hemi cars. Considering the number of Mustangs sold. I'm surprised Ford hasn't pulled the Mustang plug like they did regarding the other cars. Unless you've been hiding under a rock. The Government has push the automotive industry into an EV corner. The current Camaro is being dropped. The current Challenger and Charger are being dropped with their replacements likely to be battery powered. Do some research regarding The new EPA regulations that go into effect.
What is Biden's mpg mandate?
approximately 49 miles per gallon
The new CAFE standards apply to model years 2024 and 2026, requiring an industry-wide fuel economy average of approximately 49 miles per gallon (mpg) for passenger cars and light trucks for model year 2026.
@@DWH300 So tuners should have no problem operating in Alabama with no emissions rules, correct? Most of Georgia does not have emissions rules either...besides the areas around Atlanta, I am moving to Alabama to be more free.
@@fortheloveofnoise I had my car tuned in NC that requires NC licensed vehicles to have an emission test. I don't live in NC or have my car licensed there, but live in another state that requires emission testing. Before my tune I obtained an emissions exception in my home state because my car is driven less than 5000 annually. The tuner had no issue completing my tune because my cars not licensed in NC. Hopefully this all makes sense. A big fear is a future federal emissions testing law. With the push toward EVs. I don't see the government allowing Ice cars to get a free pass. .
Because a bunch of people that call themselves "car guys" voted for a communist president masquerading as a democrat. Anyone who didnt vote for Trump in 2020 is to blame 100%!!
I absolutely love my obd 1
Ok... but how about tuning the new EcoBoost?
The engine isn't the issue, it's the ECU.
If I can’t plug my tuning device in the OBD2 port an flash it. To me taking my computer out of the car and having to mail it out, NO THANKS.
You keep hearing this is the most powerful coyote ever…but 30 minutes in a tuner shop and literally any other coyote is more powerful than the s650.
What??? That's simply not true and I actually owned a ten speed S550 Mustang 🐎
The gen four coyote is certainly the most powerful gen ever built. The factory tune is the only thing holding the S650 back from dominating the competition like the S550 did.
@@Sub-Zero-392 I owned a 10r80 gen3 as well…and you basically said the same thing I did here. The ability to properly tune is currently holding the s650 back and is not yet able to perform as well as the previous generation until that issue is resolved.
@@dustingre8 I personally think it's unfair to give it that distinction. These S650 Mustang's with an FBO and a PBD or Lund tune will be unbeatable.
It boggles the mind that Ford, who's always supported the aftermarket to a certain level would even go this route. That said, I know this helps the value of my stock 2020 model. Also the guy that wanted to remain nameless was def from LUND.
They’d go bankrupt from fines if they didn’t lock the ECU. Blame the EPA
They don't have much of a choice with the current administration.
The best example is the C8 ECU. It cannot be natively tuned. GM has to allow for tuning. Trifecta Performance claimed to have cracked the ECU, but Trifecta Performance has gone dark. So this point is invalid. Ford will allow certain parties to “tune” the S650. How they choose said parties…that’s the mystery. The problem with the S650 is that the government or EPA/CARB is now heavily involved, as we fight infiltrated Communists in our government. We need American patriots within Ford to fight back the Chinese influence within Ford. Freedom! 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Ford has stopped being an American company for many years, they’ve basically been in a long term relationship with China that they’re Intertwined
'Merica
@@victorcano3899 Ford is not “‘Merica” anymore.
@Half Bolted On that's a sad thing to say 😞
@@victorcano3899 it is very sad, but the reality is sad. Specially with recent events with ford joining with a Chinese company, i have lost all hope of Ford being an American company anymore.
And I own both a 20 mustang Gt and a 99 ranger. But I also see their quality dropping.
My complaint with the S650 is... lack of innovation. It makes me feel like an old man but the S197 we saw the birth of the Coyote which has had an amazing aftermarket life. The S550 We saw IRS, a refined Mustang and the 10R80 and gen 3 coyote pairing feels like a budget street car cheat code. The S650 we get.. Tablets and remote rev? I'm excited for the special editions and if the spec 5 RTR resembles the drift car.... I would be interested in building one. But so far I just see a refresh and not a next generation Mustang.
I agree with this. Car got fancier and heavier with the same power. What would really sell this thing is a hybrid powertrain like the E-ray. Put on the higher trim models 150 extra hp AWD. Thing would be crazy rad
@@nicholasn.2883 and crazy expensive
EPS and IRS ruined the Mustang. I will die on that hill.
The S197 was the last Mustang that looked good! Ford blended the retro into the modern perfectly! The S550 ditched everything retro in hopes of attracting the European market it was entering for the first time. I think the S650 looks better, even though it looks a 20 Camaro and Mustang had a kid together...
Where are you guys based on? Like what location? Do you guys take customers or just videos?
Harrisburg PA. We sell parts and make videos, we do not do any customer repair work or modification.
Looks great, but it’ll be marked up so not worth it.
You can crack the ECU trust me. It just depends how long.
I mean people cracked the PS3 and PS4....just took time.
Trust you? 🤣 If you want anyone to trust you, then tell us which renowned tuning company you own? Or the other possibility (which is basically impossible), how were you able to get full access to a factory '24 Mustang ECU when no one else has been able to get anywhere near one?
Currently, all of the biggest tuning companies in the US are saying they won't know until it's released to the public. Many of them are hopeful that it will be, but are also worried that it won't be. A few have even said they believe the days of being able to tune new Mustangs is over.
I think it will be eventually, although it may be a couple years from release. And even then, the parameters and abilities might be limited.
@stanglifemike Anything can be hacked with the right amount of time. The question is how long it will take. Do you think ford performance isn't going to sale tunes for it ? Do you think Roush or Shelby or Saleen ? Ford will leave away to get access.
Just get it stand-alone ECU from the aftermarket
Cap, every Mustang ever has been tunable eventually…enjoy your warranty until then
Mustangs will always be tuned by consumers for as long as they're built and even after they're out of production. Ford should not be surprised at this point.
If they become untunable it will hurt the sales of mustangs
If its stuck at 160 I'll just be pushed away
welcome to 2023...ill stick to carbs and jets.
If you are going to buy a 2024 mustang gt for 57k you might as well take that money and get the 2014 shelby GT 500 :)
Yeah sure and hope that all 40k+ miles on it it was properly maintained and not beat on like a hellcat the entire time at least with the new mustang you have a warranty until there is tuning support
@@tacticalbacon9361 thats actually a great take
C8 all over again 😢
Just use a Apexi Super AFC to tune
I wouldn't touch it.foxbody and r95 was made for upgrades not this new stuff.
The S650 Mustang has thee worst factory tune I've ever seen. We get a new S650 with less than a third of that gen four Coyote's potential.
Bring back carbs
I have never heard so many people complaining about the new S650 Mustang. I look at Stellantis /Dodge who discontinued the Challenger and Charger with the Hemi V8 because It can't pass emissions and EPA regulations. GM is dropping the current Camaro with it likely becoming an EV sedan or SUV. Meanwhile Ford builds a beautiful new S650 V8 Mustang with a locked ECU due to emission requirements and vehicle security. With all this crying maybe Ford should sell it outside the US only. Considering the dropping sales numbers of the previous S550. Ford could build another vehicle to fill this slot. A couple Tuners I've spoken to told me they were currently only tuning off road vehicles. In states that requires Emission tests. A tune can create an issue for both the owner and the tuner. My 2018 Chrysler 300C 5.7 had a locked ECU. I purchased an unlocked replacement ECU, but I had to go out if state for my tune and other mods. I obtained an exemption to skip my states emission tests. My car is only driven 5000 miles yearly. It seems like Ford is being blamed for using a locked ECU, when actually it's due to government emission and EPA regulations. If the S650 isn't successful regarding sales. Anyone wonder how long will Ford continue to produce it. Keep in mind that the Fusion outsold the Mustang approximately 2 to 1, but it was discontinued. It's not like Ford reduced the S650 GT's horsepower below the S550 GT. . With 30 more horsepower or 36 with the Adaptive exhaust than the S550 GT. It's a special car. I understand a Whipple will be offered for the Gen 4 Coyote. Why all the negativity. To be honest. I thought the Mustang was going to lose it's V8 while changing over to a hybrid or even an EV. But then Ford builds the new S650 with a new higher horsepower Gen 4 Coyote V8 with a minimum of 30 more horsepower than it's predecessor. I like it enough to trade my Mopar for one. I thank Ford for building this fantastic new Mustang. At some point I'll either add performance mods, but for now. I'm going to enjoy the Mustang while avoiding all the complainers.
Right. So many damn boomers complaining when the writing has been on the wall for the past 5+ years. Just be glad we still have a V8 Mustang period. Pretty much all other manufacturers have killed V8’s even AMG is making 4 cyls now.
Well being in Alabama with no emissions tests, tuning should be open then...if people can crack the S650
You can tune it but you have to ask permission to ford to tune it
This car isn’t as cool as a 2014 C7 Corvette.