Christianity and Zoroastrianism with Swedish Alexander Bard
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- čas přidán 10. 07. 2024
- Maniphesto was started as a partnership with Alexander Bard and myself in 2016.
After some years, we grew to a state where I realised there were unreconcilable differences in our vision and values, meaning that working together was impossible, leading to us parting ways in 2022.
It's no secret that our differences stem from my conversion to Orthodox Christianity. Especially when I saw that so many men were struggling with extreme confusion about their sexuality and attempted to find a pragmatic framework to address some of the worst problems, then we saw how far apart we were.
Since then we have had one conversation - a panel debate in Berlin on the subject of marriage. This is our second conversation.
Chapters:
0:00 - Intro
2:39 - Interview starts
4:29 - Marriage and concluding on our last discussion in Berlin
10:01 - Why are so many men coming to Orthodox spirituality
14:03 - Similarities and differences in Orthodoxy, Judaism, Sufism and Zoroastarianism
17:18 - Eternity in Zoroastarianism
25:10 - Absolute Truth and Father Seraphim Rose's criticism of ecumenicism
37:27 - The Nihilism of Materialism and Evolutionary Theory
40:20 - On hedonism and sin
43:52 - Embodiment and experience vs. abstract thinking as approaches to reality
45:46 - Conflict and millitary training as men's work
50:20 - Paul's and Maniphesto's approach to men's work
55:03 - Choosing a religious tradition as a source of stability and strength
58:53 - The tendency for idolisation of leaders in the manosphere
1:05:22 - The priestly role
1:10:50 - Future steps such as a debate with Jay Dyer and Alexander Bard
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If there are no absolute truths, it would be an absolute truth in itself
Really contradictory
Existence sure does seem paradoxical at times.
@@Egotrippade yes, but that is because the mind divides the whole and looks at parts I think. If the mind stops dividing, it can experience it's foundation and precursor to duality, and experience all sides of reality at once, a place where the paradox is no more because there is nothing to question and nothing to know, and so nothing that is unknown.
@mikisenx So looking behind the curtain of the reality creating machine?
I agree with this perspective and surely our world could do with some more right hemisphere "thinking" and corpus callosum bridging.
Namaste?
Very glad I read "The Gurus, The Young Man and Elder Paisios" before watching this video.
This was a fascinating discussion, thank you !
Thank you for this interesting conversation. 🙏
Thanks for listening
I truly enjoy listening to the two of you... Alexander Bard is an old favorite of mine. 🛕🔥☯☸🕉 // ✡🕎✝☦
Por favor activar subtítulos!. Saludos desde Colombia.
aprenda ingles parcero
💩@@InkaHacker
🚮@@InkaHacker
@26:00 Fr Rose brought me out of this perrenialism. DPH also recently did a stream on Zoroastrianism and another on Sufi Perrenialist Henry Corbin.
Great channel,
Glory to God.
Henry Corbin is rejected by even other Muslims and yeah perrenialism is nothing but a totalitarian secular dogma and the irony is they call people like us “narrow minded” or “dogmatic” you can’t make this up 😂🤦♂️
Yeah perrenialism is completely moronic although Henry Corbin is rejected by all Muslims
You have to talk with an Iranian regarding this. I am a Iranian Zarathustrian and your guest with all respect, hasn't the knowledge needed for this very important topic
Lol screw that Zoroastrians aren’t worth talking to at all
Hi Paul, Im an Saffa interested in Orthodoxy. Do you know of any good Churches in SA?
Yes - Especially if you live in Cape Town, I would start here: www.theladderon136.com/ or Jo'burg here: www.st-sergius.info/en/
@@ManiphestoMen Im from Durban, could you maybe help there?😂
Ah, Durban is my home town! I visited a Greek Orthodox church in Durban North some 3 or 4 years ago here: facebook.com/GreekorthodoxKZN/ My first impression was they were very focused on Greek ethnicity and culture and very little focus on reaching out to non-Greeks. And yet, I will also say that in the three times I visited there, I also really experienced a very warm welcome and great personal connection. I can see if I can help out with more than this if you send me an email on paul@maniphesto.com
sent a mail. Also, what highschool were you in as a matter of curiosity?@@ManiphestoMen
Good points regarding romantic love, it is definitely over rated in our current culture. A religion should put emphasis on the love for the culture of mankind, freedom and truth seeking. Amor fati is also a very powerful kind of love.
Reconciling the aphoristic religions of the ancients with the technical secular scientific culture of today is the real singularity.
Stop throwing nonsensical jargon around 🤦♂️
@@Saber23 Just because you don't get it 🤷
@@conforzo oh I get it, you’re waffling some new age BS
@@Saber23 No, you still don't get it. I think these ideas may be a bit beyond you.
@@Saber23 Try understand what my comment meant, and you'll understand why it's very fitting for this conversation given that Bard is focusing on technology and religion.
Alexander Bard is as always very interesting.
Bard's understanding of Zoroastrianism differs from mine.
Interesting. Are you Zoarastarian? And can you explain a little more?
As an Iranian I am deeply impressed by his current and relevant interpretation of Zoroastrianism.
As far as I am concerned this is what Iran is searching for now and the essence of "Women, Life Freedom".
@@ManiphestoMen each of these morons has their own outlandish interpretation based on modern ideologies, don’t bother with them
Zoroastrianism is better than Chrstanity from what I just gathered
Certainly if you are looking for a defunct thought system which can be used to justify any actions you feel like and sounds exotic and interesting in conversations.
@@ManiphestoMen Christianity can be used to justify any action. Look at history, or read the bible. It is filled to the brim with immoral actions.
Murdering your son based on voices in your head, having sex with your dad after you get him drunk in a cave, woe onto people who do not believe, instructions for slave ownership, drowning the world when you are tired of your creation, and so on. In Zoroastrianism it is not possible, you need to act for the better of the community. That is a moral principle way above "hate the gays" bible if you ask me.
This may be an issue with some strands of protestantism. It is certainly an issue with Zoroastarianism - Bard himself admits that he does not practice or at all believe in the authentic ancient tradition, but rather a modern interpretation of his own. But this is all impossible with Orthodoxy - we have only one interpretation of Scripture, and that is the immutable interpretation of the Holy Fathers.
that’s cause it is. It’s an actually forward looking tradition that doesn’t believe in a god that’s two faced. Mazda is only ecstatic good, there’s no earth flooding child stoning father around. there’s no indoctrination into hating yourself for your human nature. Zoroastrianism is the exaltation of life and wisdom. and it’s the original “religion” as we know religion today. all modern world religions have pulled or you could even say budded from Zoroastrianism
@@ManiphestoMen
the audacity of this comment!
Terrible terrible terrible! After this amazing discussion this is what you take from it?
Now I understand what made him leave you and gift Maniphesto to you!
Based on everything I've ever learned about Zoroastrianism, Bard has a highly idiosyncratic interpretation of it.
Yup, prime example here which I get into a little is that Zoroastarians clearly believe in an afterlife. Bard does not.
@@ManiphestoMen
What do you know about Zoroastarians ? Really?
Zoroastrianism preaches the idea that Death is the work of the evil Angra Mainyu (see Angra Mainyu).
The religion also asserts the existence of the soul (Fravasi)
and the resurrection of the body at the time of the Great Renewal that will come one day.
1. According TO SOME sources, it is the bridge itself, Chinvat, that decides on the fate of souls.
2. Other sources say Ahura Mazda himself makes the judgment,
3. Still others (like Alexander) say that Mithra (many Iranian girls are named after her) presides over an actual trial of the individual, who must plead HIS OR HER own case. YOU judge Yourself before your reincarnate!
As an Iranian we literally say it when somebody hurts us EVERY TIME!
That person must plead HIS OR HER own case.
The unacceptable is the fact that you want to explain to a practicing Zoroastrian on social media how his religion works while actual Zoroastrian Iranians are reading your comments!
Not a very smart idea!
There is distribution of what happens afterwards while in orthodox christianity you believe Hell is a state of spiritual darkness, separation from God, and the absence of His presence, rather than a place of literal fire and brimstone. It is a state of eternal self-exclusion from communion with God, where souls experience the full consequences of their rejection of God's grace.
This is not a new beginning, my dear! This is not reincarnation.
This means you live in sin, die and end up in eternal darkness because everyone sins!
@@ManiphestoMen they also believe in mother and son incest, they’re horrid people
@@firouz256 yup all nonsense and BS Zoroastrianism is an evil pagan faith
Ahh so in Zoroastrianism it's a sin to not love. Semantics aside.
No that’s just modernist nonsense, traditional Zoroastrianism is very different from this but who gives a damn? They’re a dying religion and alhamdulillah for their downfall
I see Christianity and Zoroastrianism as expressions of the indo-european spirit, and not in great conflict
Sure, there are similarities to be found. But anyone who has travelled just a little bit will know that Christianity is far more universal than anj "indo-european" spirit. Even today, Africa is the continent with the most Christians. Latin America is second.
Nobody said there was a great conflict!
Ideas complete each other when people have a civilized discussion.
How is Christianity in any way an "an expression of indo-european spirit?" That spirit you speak of emerges in spite of Christianity, not because of it.
@@firouz256 there is definitely conflict
Bruh Christianity was founded in Palestine 🤣 what do you mean “Indo-European” spirit? Most indo-Europeans aren’t Christian’s and Christianity didn’t start in Europe
You're insufferable to listen to host.! Always interrupting
Yeah, this was a tough listen. Please let eachother speak.
Most guests I am more than happy to listen to without qualification. Alexander Bard I know far too well to just let him speak.
@ManiphestoMen thats a moot point. And its still a nuisance for the rest of us and rude as well
@@ManiphestoMen its a moot point and rude
@@mynameisnobody3931Alexander and I know each other very well over many years, and he didnt find it rude. If you are offended on his behalf, then find another channel to listen to - There are plenty of confused new age "progressives" and searchers who give Alexander space for his long monologues.
Evolution is real, magically appearing humans is not
Ah yes magically appearing matter magically morphing into biological life it makes so much sense!
It is amazing how people's eyes are blind to the issues with the current "scientific consensus". I Was surprised at Bard clearly admitting the massive problems with evolutionary theory here. I highly recommend Seraphim Rose' "Genesis, Early man and Creation" for Christians interested in this topic.
@@ManiphestoMen what issues? Evolution is hard facts. We have so much evidence behind this theory, it simply cannot be refuted with word sallad magic.
@@mikisenx Yes, the wisdom of this world tells us that evolution is "hard facts". Both Bard and I have realised that believing in evolution will lead to nihilism. If you want to understand, then you can try reading Fr Seraphim Rose' book "Nihilism".
@@mikisenx Is this why Richard Dawkins is going to the Ancient Aliens premise to account for teleology and put evolution off to an unobservable alien planet where the aliens evolved from some Heraclitian panspermia "God" as impersonal force beyond observation, who wants us to achieve gnosis by agreeing with atheist progressivism towards a one world government. Hard Hegelian "facts." You are taking observation of processes and adaptation after redefining species to the point anthropology breaks down and plugging it into a semiotic theory that comes out of Rosicrucianism, Parmenides, Vedic and Greek myths, and with the X group in the Royal Society, Teilhard De Chardin and Earnst Hackle was full of falsifications and lies to sell the theory, and a media circus of one sided questions in the monkey trial in America.
Even within a secular frame we see massive resistance to current evolutionary science that shows telos, if evolutionary speciation the rapidity of it would be nothing like Darwinsim puts forth, admittance of dating issues and this is beyond the point of all being irrefutable at a growing rate for over 30 years on top of previous challenges for the last hundred. This is nothing to say of the ideologies at large scale that take evolution as a way of being as Bard completely held up in the conversation. It is demonic as a way of being.
Even if for argument's sake I granted evolution, the idea that humans should model their way of being and society after a scientific fact is absurd. Do we make a legal code off the model of the atom, or say "the atom's just energy and flux maaaaan, so the law should be too maaaaan, throw it all out it's just man made superstition." Even in your own frame throwing out what many secular types call systemic and cultural knowledge in religion which atheism and New Age have been completely unseuccesful in replicating is absurd.
However, this world view must do that because what that does is open up the participation in the church as possibility and the possibility of philosophical and theological thinking putting the atheist world view under the same scrutiny it dishes out and if accepting the possibility of God, a coherent world view that nests truth in multiple philosophies after cutting out falsity, and a living tradition in the church with it's Saints and participation in God, which even if fallible in a fallen world is not equivalent in it's corruption to the rapid decay and evil in atheist to New Age modernity, Darwinist Marxism and Facism. These and the elites also share some of the evils of religion in their attempts to infiltrate, change and utilize religion in the hopes of eradicating it or making a one world process philosophy religion.