66 Mustang Betsy - Total Control Products - Upper Control Arms - What they is & what they ain't
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- čas přidán 29. 10. 2023
- Hello Folks, I am back at dialing in the front suspension. I decided to purchase Total Control Products upper control arms for Betsy. I think after I work through the problems with the design and my application, it will be nice to easily dial in the alignment via their adjuster mechanism. Betsy has been laid up for 2 weeks waiting on parts delivery, then returning those incorrect parts. Fortunately, I did not have to pay for return shipping this round.
Special Thanks to:
Barry @JoDaddysGarage
Robert @theinfernalcraftsman
Steve @FootageFactory
Tony @fitzeesfabrications
Chris @BisforBuild
Brian @PaintSociety
Evan @evansmessygarage - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Good break down man thx
Thanks
I prepped my shock towers for the Shelby drop, then changed my mind and used the factory position. Given my experience with suspension, I would have missed everything you talked about. Good information. Betsy is looking good.
Thanks Jerry, so I’m a little late to help you. Who knows, maybe I’ll end up back in the oem position too
I am surprised that you moved forward with these after realizing that they had no way to apply grease and that the ball joint was not of high quality based on what they cost. I was thinking return at that point!
Thanks Eddie, I seriously thought about that but decided I needed the adjustability to dial in the suspension to solve Betsy’s drivability issues. I think ball joint travel on most aftermarket arms is an issue. If it has pressed in or screw in type with no way to index its position then all bets are off.
I may rework my oem style arms once I find the caster / steering setup I like the best. One step at a time ya know.
It is really nice not having to use shims for alignment. Usually the upper arm will bottom out on the frame rail first but... Yeah the aftermarket ball joints are not great even the replacement ones that were on my original arms weren't great and they were no newer than mid 80s as the car hasn't been on the road since 88 at the latest.
Thanks Robert, that was my main goal, easy and precise adjustments. I just wish they hadn’t chose to cheap out on the design. Frankly, at this price point, I expect perfection but rarely get it. So many of these aftermarket solutions just trade one problem for another. Like steering racks, they engineer it to fit but the geometry is off and or you give up turning radius. Lose play in the steering but end up with bump steer, for example. A problem a friend of mine has that I hope to solve for him.
@@donsmanufactory And you pay a fortune for the parts all the while having to deal with the design issues...
FYI folks, just got off the phone and here’s what they told me. The noise is caused by side load on the spherical joint. In other words, the arm is either too narrow or spread apart pushing the joint out or pulling it in. That means the front end gets torn down again to check. 🙄
you would think that a "track" part would have even more ball joint travel, not less. great logic on the hymn joint regarding torsion of the control arm, it should move and not put any torque on the rods and adjusters. Maybe try putting your spindles in without springs and shocks and move the suspension through full range to see if there is any ball joint binding
Thanks Wally, you would think at this price point it would not have these kind of limitations.
@@donsmanufactory i edited my response and suggested putting spindles on without springs to see ball join motion. but yes i agree
Hey Wally, absolutely, sweeping the suspension and measuring caster, camber and ball joint travel is a great idea. Turns out using 1/2” spacers under the upper shock mount stops the arm 3* before the end of its travel. I think the average Joe might get into trouble just bolting these in. If they were installed in the OEM holes even the spacers would not be enough. Might have to also install ball joint wedges.
@@donsmanufactory Right on. I remember reading up on the Shelby Drop that although it is just a small change apparently if you track the car with hard turns you can bind the ball joint. they too recommend the "wedges" if that is the case
Wow, I'll stick with my stock units, those total control units are expensive and difficult to set up. Sounds like for the money they would put grease zerks in them. I put a total control rack and pinion steering in my 66 GT but it'll be awhile before I can test it 😃 since my car is still in a bunch of pieces.
Thanks Richard,
Yes, that’s why I modified my original arms. The problem is I was guessing how much caster works best. So I need this much adjustability. I’ve learned so much about suspension I wish I knew beforehand. Education is expensive. 😅
Nice work Don, Better to understand how aftermarket parts work and preform and not just slap them on and hope for the best!
Thanks Ed, always a good plan.
Too rich for my wallet! thanks for the info!
You are welcome. I’ll make a “conclusions” video once I get Betsy dialed in. So frustrating at times, every “improvement” has a negative aspect, a trade off one must experience and choose between.