Front Engine water-cooled or rear engine air-cooled? Porsche 964 Vs 968
Vložit
- čas přidán 13. 08. 2018
- Two iconic Porsches from the 90s.. the 968 is known for it's handling.. and the 964 is know for.. well for being the last air-cooled 911 to actually look like one. I review both and see which will come out on top in a road test.
- Auta a dopravní prostředky
Hallo. I found your channel now and I found it interesting. About this video. I’m a former pilot and I raced with 944 turbo kit France, 968 CS, 964 RS etc. the 968 on the track is quicker than any 964 stock. The 944 kit France (300cv) is quicker than 964RS. The 993RS is the quickest. I repeat , on track. On open roads, 944/968 are better all-a rounder, smoother and quieter, 964/993 are icons. And you always loose against icons. Ps: Golf GTi is a fantastic modern car to bring you from A to B in a quick way. Without soul. Again, compliment! Ciao from Monza,Italy.
Ciao Andrea, thank for the nice comments and for the interesting info on the racing! Saluti - Giacomo (originally Italian!)
I’ve been a straight six BMW guy for years. This is the only 4 that feels like a six. I love mine.
I’ve owned a 1976 carrera 3:0 and a 968 Sport in the past. Both cars were great fun in different ways. Flooring the 911 mid corner was hilarious but dangerous especially for someone as hamfisted as me. The 968 made me feel like a brilliant driver (I’m not) as it was so easy to get the best out of it.
Really enjoyed the video, and your honest opinion.
968..944 928 931 your balanced on turns i rarely use brakes just gear down at meets i usaully in turns beat the oilers its in the straights they pull away
yup track in straight aways the 911...in turns 28..44..68..37
Having owned several 951s, I still regularly enjoy driving my current, low mileage example quite often. At the same time, my 964C2 offers a driving experience that is very different, but in some ways, also so similar. The bank vault comparisons are justified and these 30 year old cars drive as well today as when new. These are wonderful stable mates and I couldn't be happier with either car.
Its always fun to watch you get back in a 964. No matter what you are comparing it with, your reaction to the 964 is always...content...almost peaceful. Taking everything into account, that you can take into account, I get the feeling that if you had to live with just one car, forever and ever, the only car you could own and drive, I think you'd take a 964.
Not sure but definitely would be in the running!
I would love to know what Phil was thinking....he seemed to be the reserved type, his eyes and wry smiles seemed to be saying a lot.
Don’t tell the customer about the sloppy box 😂🤔
Pretty much as a few of us said after the first video. The bucket seats make a huge difference in the 968, You started to feel it, but "limit" is something you can retrieve a 968 from, where you would never dare or get a 911 back from! The gear lever doesn't normally dance around like that. Hope to see more content of your own 964, prefer it over both of these cars featured.
Glad you like mine.. so need to get a bit more use out of it!
It is true that you have to challenge the 968 CS before it becomes magical. But when you put in the effort, you get the reward. Even after 5 years of ownership I still enjoy every drive in it and I have even declined offers to trade it for a 964 C2. Having also driven aircooled 911s, for me the 968 CS is in a league of its own. Not only in terms of handling, but also usability and quality. No problems with rust, the driving position is great and you sit right in front of the pedals, you get, evens as a passenger, space for your legs, you get a 6 speed gearbox, maintenance is cheaper, it uses less fuel, etc. Moreover only 1,500 were produced (12,000 for the 968 in total) compared to more than 60,000 units when you look at the 964. Buying a racy Porsche with limited production numbers still sounds like an interesting investment...
Perhaps I will buy a 964 or 993 one day but it will only be in addition to the 968 CS. I like the classic shape and sound of an aircooled 911, but for me a sportscar is still about driving fast...
Thanks for your great comment, your passion for your 968 really shines through!! You make a compelling case. Thanks for watching!
That's a great film Jack. A long overdue comparison from Porsche contemporaries. And good to see Phil again - he sold me my 964 Targa over four years ago now. On a production note, you're really getting the hang of the drone, which adds production values to the film, along with being able to hear both of you in the car much better. Great stuff!
Thank Christopher, appreciate the kind comments!!
Modern cars are on another level and there's nothing that can be done.. I blow the doors off of all kinda classics with a v6 Sienna 3.3 Limited 250hp vvt-i. It's so fun I'm buying a second sienna and building it up to be a twin V6 "UnLimited"🤙😁
Good comparison enabled by Phil ...thanks both
Thanks for watching Robert!
You are the best Man! Your best video! Congratulations! Love both car...
Thank you!! Glad you liked it
Porsche engineers where asked in 2000 what was the best Porsche model they had ever made till that time a great surprise it was the Porsche 968 build quality handling much more balanced then the
911 so go buy 986 😉
Interesting, thanks for watching!!
Thank you for the video comparison of these cars. Love my C2.
Thank you sir!! Appreciate you watching and commenting!
I think that 968 is one of best handing Porsche.
fun to cornering.
Yes, you are right, but only if pushed!!
If anyone’s interested still. I owned that particular C 2 for over 10 y. Daily driver never gave me a problem. Engine was rebuilt at 120k. Great car , really loved it. Had to sell. But kept my 968.
Thanks for sharing! Great to hear you were the owner!
I always lean towards the 968.......even though I'vd owned 11 911's over the years!
Probably something to do with my 1st ever Porsche ride in a 924 turbo(that will live with me forever).
Obviously the 964 is better in every respect to the enthusiast but I just love those transaxles
Good for you Virgil.. main thing is to be passionate about at least one car!
I think people don't realize how much an all rounder the 968 is
Well Jack, I enjoyed this video for sure. The first 911 I ever drove was a 964 back in 1991 that was new. It was the same color as the one you drove here, but it had a white interior. I love(d) that color, but the black interior works much better. I was very impressed by the way that car drove back then, and love them to this day. Yes the 968 is a great track car, but to drive that 964 every day on the road is really what it's all about. The 964 is the historical epitome of what Porsches were always meant to be. 👍😎
Hey mike had a white interior originally too😄.. can’t say I was a big fan of it though!!
Love the video Jack! I'm with you I'd take the 964 every time. The one your driving in the video is a lovely colour 🤗👍
Thanks Ryan!! Do like the 68 as well!
Jack, yeah I really like the 968 but the 964 is an iconic car every one knows that shape !
Nice to see the speedo's working at 6:01 !!! Not a ringing endorsement since the car was for sale!
I've done over 100k miles in 944s and they feel way more exciting and fun to drive than a 911. The 944 turbo would have been a fairer match for the 911. Also that 968 is still for sale, deposits have been accepted in the past but I'm guessing the cars condition have led to it not being sold. A quick mot history check reveals quite a number warning signs in particular with chassis corrosion.
I think you finally got it. I have had my 968CS for over 10 years and the only way to drive it and really get it is to drive it quickly. It has the most feedback of any car I have any driven on the limit and that’s where it makes sense.
Yep.. 10/10th or nothing!!
The 968 is really a small well sorted GT. The steering is a bit dead on center and the suspension is soft. Stiffen it up with some bracing, keep the revs up, and hammer it through corners and it is a blast in the canyons. You do have to set up your corner early but when well executed the car takes its set and shoots through corners. The LSD makes a huge difference as well. I owned 2 and loved them for what they were. Comfy road trip car that could work the canyons when you arived.
Top chefs say 'you eat with your eyes first' i think the 964 is for most people better looking/more desirable and that will surely affect the driving experience for many... I haven't driven either so can offer no insight into that side of them sadly!
I don't know - the 964 doesn't work for me, particularly the front end - that front bumper looks bulbous, bulging out in front of the lights. Earlier 911s look better IMHO including the bellows bumpers models. I do like the 968, particularly the rear.
I love the 968. looks great and is a superb long distance sports car. Affordable too. I’d avoid the CS suspension for normal use however..
Thanks David.. it was a fun car I have to admit but has to be driven hard to be appreciated
I like both. Never owned a 964, I went for a 993 instead at the time. Better built more reliable, less routine maintenance needed (engine adjustments for example). The one car I wish I hadn't sold! Hey ho! I have just put a deposit down on a 968, coincidently. We'll see!
Great video Jack - it did make me think.
I've owned a number of BMW's (328 last) and years ago a Ford RS2000.
Near the limit, you drive these cars through the front axle and correct for what happens at the rear - great fun!
However, you need to pushing on a bit to get this experience - as you end up doing in that 968.
Personally, I wouldn't slide a 964 like that on twisty B roads esp as the speeds would be higher - so it's a different experience.
But driving a smallish well made true sports car with an air cooled 3.6 litre engine behind you is always an event!
And when you come to a good sweeping A road ..... yep give me the Beetle Sport any day (964)!
Who thinks I'm wrong?
Great to watch, thanks #27
I suppose I'd need to try a 968 but it would likely be the 964 for me! I can't believe you didn't slip in my Top Trump fact about the 968 having the largest 4-pot production engine at 3.0. And Phil thought about explaining why it's so good with its sophisticated counter-balancing. Great collaboration video!
Yes you’re right about the 4 pot top trump! Thanks for watching!
Number27 Are you Fairmiling this evening?
From the US, pleaey don't say Top Trump anymore! Nothing top comes from that 5 letter word!!! LoL... Former 951 owner, I personally liked the looks of the 944/951 over the 969....
Miss the 951, besides the maintenance issues / costs, luckily anything electrical I am able to do myself with ease. Getting at things mechanically on the 951 is sometimes another thing! ;-(
Quality vid
Here as I really want a 964 :)
Michael Palin? Great video btw. Both seem very enthusiastic and knowledgable!
🤣... thanks for watching Matthew!
Nice review.....not surprised the 964 came out tops. Having driven a 944t I’d say the same, you really have to pedal it to get the best and it’s easier to go quickly but you don’t get the same rewards as you do exploiting the potential of a 911
Thanks Grant.. the 68 is lovely but a bit bland if not driven at 10/10ths!!
I own all 3 best vintage Porsches: front/mid/rear: a 1994 968 manual coupe, a 1988 911 3.2 G50 Carrera and a 1974 914 2.0 Limited Edition Can Am. Actually, the 914 is my favorite to drive. At 2200 lbs with the torquy 2.0 and mid engine placement, it's simply a BLAST to drive! I also love both my 3.2 G50 Carrera and my 968. Both are very different. My 968 feels faster and perfectly balanced. It's my best daily car with excellent air-conditioning (I live in Florida), ample space (I got 4 tires in the hatch) and excellent handling. Don't skim on the gears, really rev it and it is an absolute BLAST to drive! My 3.2 G50 Carrera is also great to drive and I prefer it to the 96 for it's looks. The reason most don't care for the 3.6 is the leaky engine. I was never fond of the bulbous integrated bumpers on the 964. I feel the 3.2 (the last "911") is lighter and more raw than the 964. Either way, they all have their own wonderful qualities and characteristics. I can't choose one so I got all three! :D
Nice video.
Thank you John!!
964. BUT - agree 944 was the more coherent machine. Had a Turbo with c. 280bhp and that was fun everywhere. Till it hit the wall. For entertainment, presence and feel-good would run a 964 mighty close. Great vids, keep 'em coming.
Shame your 944 decided to meet the wall 😢.. thanks for watching buddy!!
just brilliant
Thank you!!
I have had the pleasure of having the Porsche models 924, 944, 911 Carrera 3.2 Coupé and 928S (all in the 80s). Of these models, I would without a doubt think that the 944 is the overall best when it comes to driving pleasure. The 911 may be a little more present and direct, but it is noisy and is not a car you want to take south on the continent over several days with long stages on the highways. The 944 is much easier to live with in that respect without actually performing less impressively as a sports car. The 924 is older and rawer than 944, but all better for it. Given 20-30 more horsepower, it would have been a better sports car than the 944 (the 931 and 924S is almost the answer to this). However, the 928S is a completely different story. In my opinion, this model is fantastic for what it is (power, comfort, feeling, sound and not least features like a thoroughbred super GT as it was in the 80s), but it does not reach the 944 as a sports car. The original 944 with facelift (from the second half of 1985) weighs only aprox 1200 Kg and this makes all the difference in relation to the 928S's relatively massive aprox 1500 Kg. Seen in today's perspective where many cars weigh well over 1800 Kg this is ridiculous, but in the 80's you were serious when it came to proper sports cars and weight :)
'964' is NOT a Porsche model. It was a factory designation for the 911 variant produced between the 3.2 and the 993.
Nice camera work there at the beginning. Looking well produced. Now for the cars... I'd probably take the 911 as there's a reason it cost that much more back in the day. Better quality, better engine....although having said that, I really think the 968 looks stunning especially in yellow! The 911 just looks like another 964. But the 968 looks a bit more special. Tough call.
Do really like that 964 in yellow too!! Thanks for watching dude!
The four cylinder transaxle Porsche will feel balanced but also relatively heavy to drive. The engine is at the front and I suspect the CofG of the gearbox is BEHIND the rear axle (the geartrain is odd in that it is behind the differential - I can't thing of another front engine rear transaxle car that does it that way - not even the 928).
Two heavy units so far apart gives you a high polar moment of inertia - like trying to rotate a pair of dumbbells rather than a single mass of the same weight.
This is why mid engine gearbox assembly is the preferred route to get a perfect handling car nowadays - balance and a low polar moment of inertia.
Still I think my 924S is a lovely handling car - you drove it remember. You need to put in effort to move it about but it is unflappable.
Thanks for watching and for the thoughtful commentary Stevie!
So which has more feel to it,these two or a subaru you used to own?
To be honest the Subaru did have sublime steering, did not seem to suffer from the 4WD at all!
Prefer the 944 turbo looks wise any day,also nothing says Porsche more than the 911 shape,drove a 911 turbo cabriolet it was a 92 reg I think,when I floored it you could feel the chassis flex when the turbo kicked in,it was a very exiting car to drive,edgy unlike cars from today.Drove a testarossa the same day and it didn’t compare,I used to work for a garage back in the day had a lot of fancy cars go through it,lovely video as usual,bet you are glad you left your old job 😉
Yes I’m glad.. but I need another job.. this barely covers my petrol costs!!
Love the 911. Never really ‘got’ the 968, much prefer the 944 S2 style wise (IMHO).
Agree!! Thank for watching buddy!
My ideal garage, I think, without being greedy, that would do. I've owned a 968, which was amazingly built and so easy to drive, and theI'd go for the retro looks of a 964, over a 993, which I've considered, and is technically better
A 964 manual is twice the price of a 968. When I purchased my 968 a few years ago I couldn't justify the extra 20-30k for a toy. I chose the 968 over 996, boxster, cayman and also I could have just afforded a 964 However I got the 968 because it is much easier to maintain (I live 280kms from a OPC) myself. It gets used in trackdays, in which it is really easy to drive especially in the wet, I drove 5500kms this year in two weeks (andalucia-Le Mans-Goodwood- Nurburgring and back). you say the 911 makes a great GT car, the 968 eats the miles in comfort I even slept in it for a few nights. Autocross events, classic car shows, It keeps up with all the other Porsches at the Porsche club I belong to we drive in small groups of 8 and it gets quite spirited.
I have been thinking of getting a 964 since summer, but I just don't think it would be worth the extra money.
Thanks fo your input on the 968, def great value compared to a 911.. although the 11 is very special feeling for a sports car, not like any other really.
I like how the 964 (and presumably other 911s) sniff out the corner - they flow through, with that peculiar engine and wheel track setup. Perhaps you feel it might push initially (if you are easing into the corner - the front end is light) but it very quickly tracks through effortlessly. A brilliant drive. However, if you want to flog a car through the twisties, a front-engined rear-wheel drive will be far more suited.
Good points, thanks for watching!!
I like the video, I've hope that I'll get 964 or 993 one day. Could you make a video about 914, please?
As soon as someone offers me one.. would love to try one!
First watched your video about 968 vs GTI 6mo ago and said to myself. This fellow doesn't get it unless he had more time with the 968 and realizes that its a completely different car when you drive it harder and more confidently. I think someone else said its best in the comments below. The 968 makes you feel like a much better driver than you really are... its never gets upset. 911 is more comfortable as everyday car.
Interestingly you’ve reviewed a 964 and a 968 rather than a G series 911 and the 944 Turbo. I own both cars and the 944 Turbo is a vastly better drive. The 964, although an improvement, is still not a patch on the 944 chassis, balance and power.
The 964 all the way! I agree I like the 944 over the 968 anyday.
Do love the way a 944 looks!!! Thanks for watching Vincent
For me in the dry twisty s i would grab the 964 keys, however on wet n windy drive, 968 all day....fast n hard. keep it in the high rev range......she fights and rewards are there. get out of your comfort zone paul i mean Jack.lol
The 968 certainly has grown on me!! Thanks for your comment and for watching fella!
964 true Porsche 👌🏻
I know it's rarer than a Hen's tooth but I wonder if the 968 Turbo S would be a more exciting match? I'm not blown away by the 3 litre N/A engine.
Quite possibly but as you say that is a really rare beast!!!
964 every time, can't beat a flat 6 :-) Although I prefer my 993s due to extra power, better engine and suspension.
993s are fab cars too. Ultimate development of the old cars!!
Two top models , but i prefer the 968.
Thank you for watching and commenting Hervé!
I’d love a 911 that sound was fab
I never liked the look of the 968 and I drove a bog standard one once that was really underwhelming
“there is a little play in the gearbox” and queue the shifter bouncing 3 inches vertically. def some slop in there.
🤣 yep.. but it was still fine to use!
I've read that Porsche's four banger is not a particularly pleasant engine,harsh and a fair amount of vibration,nor particularly powerful but that's not unusual for a large capacity 4 banger.
Yep agree with that assessment..
@@Number27 just out of interest,why the no.27,is it to do with the great Australian 2X motogp champion Casey Stoner?.
some of you guys should go visit a track day, and watch the 968's eating the 911 GT3 on the twisty bits, they are far better that either the biased reporter here or Top Gear or any other publication makes out, in fact the whole Porsche scene is Biased to 911's even the Porsche Club is Biased, and the 993 was the last air cooled 911
they are not as good as made out to be, A TTRS is half of the price faster and handles better, its another sales hype just like front wheel drive is better
Don’t really agree with any of your points, I liked the 968 and can see where it shines. I can’t see a 968 beating any GT3 on any bit of track though. It has way less grip and power. Also I’m not a professional and just try to be honest about how the cars feel to me as a normal bloke.
A 968 CS on track is well known in the scene to totally catch up and sometimes over take GT3's in the corners. Not 991 GT3's of course but 996's. Waylander is right, there is a big bias towards 911's in the press and ignorant 911 owners perhaps because cars like the 968 are superior from a handling and dynamic perspective. If you read reviews and comparisons from the 90's the superior handling of the 968 and even more the CS is evident. How time breeds forgetfulness for all.
Your conclusion on the every day usage of the 964 is spot on. As an only car it is more satisfying, has a better low speed ride and has more engine character (but that doesn't mean the 968 has none it still has oodles) but both of your videos have not done the 968 enough justice. Which is a shame to see because it is a real gem of a car. If you take a 968 CS on a proper drive it will dance you into a trance like state of driving which I would say only a handful of cars are capable of doing. I speak from extensive experience of 911's and transaxle Porsches. We need to see EVO or Carfection do 968 CS vs videos!
Regardless of the above thanks for making the effort with the video. If reviewing the ride of a car then you need to go deeper into each car and push harder. I would also look around the car at things such as common issues and mention running costs. Check out savagegeese and maybe do half of what he does. Would make for a comprehensive comparison and a better test of handling which your videos would do so much better with.
If your not a professional, why review cars that you obliviously don't like, you information on the Sport was incorrect, the sport IS a CS it was built on the same production line has the same suspension and brakes and engine and chassis.
Please get at least some of your facts right, the sport is a rarer car than the CS.
Also In the 2016 24 hour at Silverstone, a 968 was used to raise money for a childrens charity, and was the only Porsche to finish, all those 911's broke
@@waylander9686 Yes correct, 968 Sport is a club Sport, Club Sport chassis Numbers, made as A club sport with some Extras at COST, it was Porsche GB that bought Club Sports and had the Elec windows etc put in, who the hell wanted wind up windows in the mid 90's, ONLY the ones who couldn't afford them!!!
The 964 c2 was about £41000
The 968 was around £30000
964 please
I would take 964
964-me!
I track both a 964 C2 and a light weight 968 and I have no doubt that the 964 is the more fun car to drive. Although, the 968 is faster.
Thats interesting but not surprising as they have similar power. Is yours a 968 CS or a standard car?
Number27 its a standard 968 however with plastic bodywork and windows. Full cage and gutted interior.
Well, Bubbles (a.k.a. XXVII), I see you've abandoned your trademark crouched introduction. Were your new pants too tight❓😳
The drone shots are their usual sublime selves. You really have got your droning off to a fine art.
The air-cooled 911 is one of the all-time great cars. The 968 simply can't compete.
Another one of your entertaining, enjoyable videos. You really do maintain a high standard.
Incidentally, and à propos to nothing, I notice your " close friend ", Jimmy Dean, keeps singing ' I'm Forever Blowing Bubbles '. Is he a Hammers, or Michael Jackson, fan❓🤔🤔🤔
Ah KC old chap.. I fear those meds they are giving you at the retirement home are proving less than effective. Or perhaps today was they gave you your weekly allowance of Gin? James Dean is a friend of my nemesis Cletus.. alas I have never met him.
Oops‼️ Have I been indiscrete⁉️ I assumed you were a ménage à trois. Please accept my apologies.😉😉😉
air-cooled hands down , and there's no way that 4cylinder-i-don't-know-what-car can compete with a 911
🤣🤣
except on the track where 964 loses over 951 and maybe also 968 ;)
@@netopierdotcom Yes the 968 would beat the 964 on track.
Air cooled
No comparison...this 964 $50k-$70k. 968 $25k.
That 964 is definitely not on standard suspension. Bilstein HD I bet..
Felt standard to me... nine used to be on the HDs and it was stiffer. Maybe this has just had springs?
Number27 Standard suspension on the C2 much higher on the front. Comically so in modern terms. Car you drove looks fantastic on Design 90's!
Air Max all the way
964 every time!
The 964 engine sounds better than the 968.
Without a doubt Wayne!! Thanks for watching
Wipe the floor with.
with what...
People who review cars should do a bit more studying about the models they’re reviewing
As an owner of both models I would take the 68 every time for fun and handling every time Blinkered 911fanboy biased review as usual
Little bit unfair.. i don't claim to be a professional road tester.. whole point of the channel is a that its a normal bloke's view point. Also dont think I was unfair to 68, i really liked it but it only comes alive when youre thrashing it. the 911 is also fun when being driven normally. Still, thanks for watching and for your comment1
Hello again.
More competent they may be, but the 4-cylinder cars are just not as 'special' as 911s. Personally I prefer water-cooled 911s ^_^
First, again⁉️
People will talk...
Let the fools blether, Bubbles. They know not of which they speak.
When are going to buy a Ferrari ?
Money is an issue....