Jaddeth is Autonomy!? Words of Brandon Part 3 | Shardcast
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- čas přidán 16. 07. 2024
- We're back! There's still more WoBs! Jaddeth is Autonomy, maybe? Tons of Elantris and Lost Metal stuff here, as well as Hoid and Bloody Tan stuff!
We have Eric (Chaos), David (Windrunner), Veronica (Cheyenne Sedai), and Kendra (little wilson).
Here's our collection of our WoBs that were discussed in this episode: wob.coppermind.net/collection...
Our 2022 Art Commissions: www.17thshard.com/news/featur...
00:00 Introductions
2:14 Newsy and Lots of Show & Tell
14:11 Words of Brandon
2:04:53 Who's That Cosmere Character
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#brandonsanderson #cosmere #mistborn #thelostmetal #elantris - Zábava
I made a mistake recording my audio, so frankly I think my audio is utter trash in this, even with some paid software to mitigate it. But you all needed an episode, so better to put it out. Sorry, though. -Eric
Don't worry. I got worse phone in terms of audio quality and I still clearly got you.
I can’t notice anything. I’m sure it’s just a me thing not being that distinguishing
You did an impressive job hiding it!
it's fine, we will never forgive you
YOU'LL NOTICE EVENTUALLY. Or at least subconsciously. -Eric
For the second WTCC, I imagine its taravangian having access to hoid's breaths when he takes them in the epilogue
Why would taraodium have access to hoids breaths, I dont remember if breaths are keyed to a persons identity
Scrolled down to make sure somebody said this. ;)
@@Dhardeman1981 i think it was a trick way of saying it. He had access to it, as in he was able to touch and manipulate it, not that he could use it
It's definitely implied Tara-odium stole Hoid's memories stored in breaths.
To add to this. Doesn't the narrative say something like the colors seemed less sharp to Hoid to make it explicit that breaths were stolen?
When silverlight comes out, I now expect there to be characters based on the 17th shard staff.
David saying “Let me place this long-awaited piece of lore in this book that costs one hundred dollars” in a Doctor Evil voice is the funniest thing on this show for some reason.
The jaddeth autonomy wob has been in my head for sooo long. Excited to see what you guys have to say
Regarding the Elendel Map situation with Shai, I believe the Sorceress also had a map of Lumar in her room.
In terms of Sazed lying in Secret History he tells Kelsier there's no way for him to get his body back. And I think explicitly lies about the Lerasium to Kelsier too. Plus Ruin definitely lies to Kelsier a few times that he couldn't possibly do anything.
Yay! 17th shard episodes are back. Congrats to Chaos and LadyL on your wedding!
Taravangian having access to Breath is probably related to messing with Hoid's memories
On the point of the whole Bloody Tan situation being _too_ messed up for Sazed to have been the one pulling the strings, I would not be surprised to learn this is some early warning sign that Discord is creeping up on Harmony. In the TLM Kelsier Epilogue, Kelsier notes that he's seen Sazed's strange shadow before. I think Discord has been bubbling under the surface for a long time, and we don't really know what that means.
Hoid HAD a kid with a herald on Roshar and now her head's a pretzel full of different versions of herself. Personal Theory.
Interesting!
So you're saying Shallan didn't actually kill her father?
@@ScribblyDoodle I mean she killed a dude she deffers thought was her dad and that did enough damage I think.
47:53 bro i'm absolutely frothing at the mouth for stormlight 5 to be in my hands, if anticipationspren were real i'd be able to charge them rent for having taken up permanent residence near me, i've been wanting to see Shinover since before Oathbringer dropped
edit: 2:13:12 TaravOdium tampers with Hoid's breaths during the Rhythm of War Epilogue
Welcome back! I've eagerly awaited new episode🤩
Taravangian has access to breaths when he tampers with Hoid's memories. I think that's what the WTCC writer was referring to.
to be honest i kinda felt like i was dreaming until halfway through the april 1st episode when i realised what day it was and got kinda pissed XD
Brandon's spoiler stream made me so excited for Elantris sequels! We just have to wait for after Stormlight 5.
Having seen John Green sign 350k+ "books" for his pre-orders, he just gets blank pages that get send back and slotted into the bonding process.
It's been too long! So happy you guys are back.
Rashek is actually one of Hoid's descendants.
What
?
The chaos of the last minute of this episode is why I listen to Shardcast😂y'all are awesome, keep it up
P.S. I'm way behind on content I know😅
I'd forgotten Brandon saying Elantris sequels had to come before Era 3, that makes the whole "Not releasing any of Era 3+Elantris sequels until they're all written" make a lot more sense.
Thanks y'all! and Congrats!
Taravangian directly manipulates breaths in the epilogue of rhythm of war. Still a bit of a stretch, but that's definitely what they are referring to.
Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? Thank you guys for this new episode, I've been missing my usual dose of Shardcast lately
Caught in a landslide, no escape from reality.
April fools episode was fantastic
finally! my 16 WoB!
Hey God how's it going -Eric
It's hilarious listening to David's SP5 joke after Brandon announced the actual SP5 which seems to be related to the one he was referencing in that WOB.
It's been a good few months since I properly listened to a Shardcast, so it's almost like I'm coming back to the fandom fresh . . .
And *oh boy* does Brandon go down the "I'll explain later" route! The number of planned Cosmere stories is growing exponentially, most of these explanations are probably never coming, and my overall thoughts boil down to "where is this all heading??"
Of course, where it's heading is a lot of really enjoyable stories, so I should probably lighten up.
Wob episodes are great, see you again after I've read Tress
Taravangian had access to Hoid's Breath ;)
YAY SHARDCAST! Congrats to Jess and Eric
Oh man big Vasher vibes from the talks about old lonely Raoden!
RIP the Omibus show and tell because they all got recalled again
Yeah I'm not sending mine back. It's fine. -Eric
damn how did i miss this ep dropping
On the question about the original shardholders matching or not the Intent, Brandon has said before that the division of 16 Intents we have nowadays wasn’t obligatory, but an artifact of how Adonalsium was shattered. We could be reading a Cosmere where we have “Hope, Despair, Creation, Nihilism” instead of “Honor, Odium” etc.
So what came to my mind reading that WoB was, what if some of the shards didn’t really have a coalesced Intent at the Shattering, but had their Intent shaped by how their holder saw the power in the following years? Like, what if Odium could have just as easily become Anger or Love, but the way Rayse saw the power influenced what the shard later on became? The shards could have had a weaker, more general Intent, that became something more constricting and permanent once time passed
Losing the medallion thing and rewriting it is kinda relatable. I have a few magicbuilding projects in my notes and some of them are on their severalth versions, and there's been a couple instances for some of them where I lost the notes for a magic system and rewrote it from the bits I remembered, and got something better out of it :P
1:52:40 - Yess, become one with the R.A.F.O., Eric!
WOB #62 1:47:05 What about if the Kandra in Roshar is an agent Sazed but not an agent of Harmony but an agent of Discord instead, and that is what Sanderson means here?
Regarding Miles - they found many (dozens?) of gold implants in him after he was captured and assumed they were metal-minds; but who is to say none were spikes? The good-guys didn't know anything about spikes at that time.
And there was that whole weird thing with them removing his metals, using a leecher on him then executing him and it still took a shitton of bullets and time for him to die, there was definitely something shady going on there
I’d argue that harmony did use bloody tan intentionally to kill lesie because of the affect that the ruin shard has on him, he is both preservation and ruin and I think that because he was intervening he had to either ruin or preserve something about wax, he needed to push him in a direction and so he ruined the roughs for him.
What if the axindweth that we see on roshar is, straight up, a first generation kandra who survives the catacendre, and now they're running around the cosmere as a "terrisperson." Answer two questions with one answer.
15:05 Doesn't a sewing machine have a lot of moving parts? It'd be like asking a spren to condense into a gun.
He has access to Hoid's breaths that he took with his memory.
I think that Taravangian having access to breaths is referring to the breaths that he took away from Hoid
I wonder if the Kandra on Roshar was Axindweth and is now playing some other sort of role. I always thought it was suspicious that this Terriswoman would just appear in Gavilars party, start the engine running on the Everstorm and then just disappear, never to be seen again. There’s something more to her, even if she’s not a Kandra.
1:16:00 my biggest issue with the whole Atium retcon is the 1/16 thing where 1/16 of the people being snapped by the mist got sicker longer because they were Atium mistings, but now they are electrum mistings and are burning the alloy. So does that mean that electrum is the strongest metal because that is the reason given for why they got sicker longer?
They'd just be Atium/Electrum alloy mistings wouldn't they?
@@ThomasCIskandar I'm thinking that mistings can burn an alloy of their metal and any God metal
@Shawn Peck I agree, but I don't like it. That opens up like 100 new potential powers
The 1/16 thing was: "1/16 of people being snapped by the mist got sick longer because they all could burn only one specific metal of the sixteen". Iron, steel, pewter misting... they all got sick for a variable period of time. It was all a message from Preservation: "Beware, I created this whole bunch of people who can burn that specific metal".
Even with the retcon Preservation's strategy still works, electrum misting were never mentioned. There are obvioulsy some problems: it is a retcon after all (but a good one).
I assume the Nalthis essay will come with the nightblood book
Wax being mistborn, the way I see it it's fitting that we don't find out explicitly that he knows. He's done being moved by other people, and if anyone knew he was mistborn he would become a focus for so many interests. With the history of everything he's gone through and seen, he would know it's better if no-one ever finds out that lerasium can be made, so that secret will die with him. He's not going to do anything interesting with it and his story is done. The question is if Sazed will allow it to be perpetuated genetically. Maybe that will cause him to regress towards Discord, as the intention of Preservation clashes with both his own and Ruin's (in general I think the primary force for bad times within Harmony is Preservation).
In my head, I always thought Lessie moved to take the bullet as you was still serving harmony at this stage and that was part of Harmonys plan to get Wax back to Elendel. It's been a while since I've read the prologue though so I might be missing some details.
Also regarding Taravangian having access to Breaths in the WTCC question. Is it referring to when he changed Hoids memories at the end of ROW?
Shallan could be a worldhopper who doesn't maintain powers after leaving the system. In the break, she gets off-world, then is never heard from again. Gets stuck on First of the Sun and eaten by a stick.
It would be cool to see a video summarizing all the updates of the cosmere and where everything stands currently mid 2023
What do you mean by "updates of the cosmere" in this instance? -Eric
I'd seriously recommend Me, My Skirt, and I's video on the topic mentioned in the title. Very interesting.
Did not anticipate seeing a Singer today, lol.
Microsoft Teams is actually quite good.
I've been using it for years, including across continents and I've never really had any issues.
Granted, that's the business version. I'm sure they prioritize the business over personal.
Me, too, but my reaction is different. It's even missing features that were in Microsoft NetMeeting.
Maybe hoid was initially offered odium, which is why someone who doesn't fit in with the rest of the vessels(rayse, who is just the worst) wound up taking up odium.
Does anyone know what stormlight podcast they were talking about in the outro that isn’t 17th shard?
That's Veronica's podcast, Worldhopper's Guide -Eric
I thought for a moment that the "facial hair" one would be Leshwi, because of the part where we're told since she'd inhabit both femalen and malen Singer bodies she'd have to shave facial hair sometimes, and all the clues worked (I think, at least) until the Breaths one.
Which Q&A was this from? Trying to find the text version on Arcanum
Ooops I forgot to make a collection. I'll do that soon. Spoiler Stream 5. -Eric
Here it is: wob.coppermind.net/collections/1166/
1:57:00 to David's theory, maybe it was Discord rather than Harmony that was influencing Bloody Tan. That would explain why he evaded Chaos's question and left it open-ended - we know Discord is an Era 3 thing. It also explains the out of character savagery for Sazed; he was leaning Ruin. It could also shine a light on Paalm's rebellion:
"Someone else moves us" - even Harmony himself. Pehraps Paalm recognised the imbalance within God himself.
@11:15 David is talking about signing book pages and i only know one other author who signs a lot of books and posts about it online. John Green. And he gets boxes full of little packets of pages to sign, and does NOT get the full books. That would be absurd given how many he signs.
This is my only other reference but i was under the impression that this was a very normal way of doing things.
Shoutout to Skai the cat! And to Aona too. Always good for a sight gag, even if only in reference
1:44:00 A possible loophole in that answer is that an unbonded Highspren could have found a way off Roshar and travelled to Scadrial. Brandon only talks about a Radiant making the journey. I'm probably overthinking it.
I mean Hoid’s secret child is obviously Ishikk.
With regards to the last WOB what if Discord briefly reared their head during the Bloody Tan incident and was the one to whisper to him?
so just because he writes elantris 2 between mistborn era 3 doesn't mean it will wait to come out until era 3 is finished so that might be a book that comes out in the drout. on the otherhand if these 5 books are tied to each other i'm betting brandon will need to release some novellas just to keep himself sane so i doubt we'll get a total drout
Oh, this was recorded on April 1st! I was thinking, surely Jaddeth is Dominion when his resurrection was prophesied to come only when there was total dominion of one person over the world, perhaps proving that person worthy to become the new vessel.
23:00 Which other Shards regularly start interstellar invasions?
24:00 Hoid's future children will be Mistborn. Jasnah may know that. Connect the dots.
55:30 We do not know how much Connection to the corpse of Adonalsium you get by killing him or her.
1:18:00 Sorry, but at this time we have no evidence pure god metals are usable in feruchemy at all.
1:42:00 At a risk of repeating myself: For extraplanetary Skybreakers you do not need to get a Skybreaker off Roshar. A Highspren would do the job, if they are willing to bond an offworlder.
1:47:00 Is there a reason a Kandra working for Harmony needs to have been sent out by Harmony?
Does anyone have a link for the Intentionally Blank moment Eric references around 1:25:21 (where Brandon told Dan not to say something because he’s using it in Stormlight)?
I'll try to find this for you, but I do have a lot on, so it might take a bit. -Eric
I am pretty certain it is this one, though I haven't rewatched to see for sure: czcams.com/video/kh78i0WCSTk/video.html
That is the correct episode it's right at 20 minutes in
Thanks! 🙏
Maybe the Dawnshards were used to give Adonalsiun opposing commands, for instance telling part of his power to BIND and another part to CHANGE leading to the tearing/pulling we saw in Dawnshard.
4 of the sixteen could have been responsible for each Dawnshard, and divided up each quarter between them. In the process of using the Dawnshard and tearing Ado apart they could have got the sense for the newly forming Intents, seen who was best at controlling the Dawnshard and inferred who might be best at controlling the Shards from that.
For example, I think Ruin is connected to the Change Dawnshard. So maybe Ati and 3 others used that Dawnshard when the 16 killed Ado, and Ati was particularly good at controlling it - so they suggested Ati take the most potent part of the Change Shards.
57:01 It's interesting that they tried to pick the best controller rather than the best fit. Especially in the context of Odium. Rayse seemed to not be fully in tune with Odium (the whole Passion shenanigans), but apparently they thought he was the best potential controller. What made Koravellium pick Tarvangian though? Clearly Tarvangian is pretty in line / a good fit for Odium, but she apparently thinks he can control it well too (and potentially do more good than harm?). So like what was her plan with him, how does she think this is a good idea in any way.
I still think Cultivation's plan is to Splinter Odium.
The Paalm/Bloody Tan thing may be even more simple than we think. That unnatural movement could have been all Paalm, jerking into Wax's shot, controlled by Harmony. No need for Trell, or any other party, Harmony just saw the opportunity to get Wax where he wanted him and so he moved Paalm to get it done. Literally, someone else moved her.
Why would Brandon need to be so cagey with that then? That feels like he could easily have answered that at any time since Shadows, and he never has. -Eric
@@17thShard if he has even a hint of a plan that he may use it later as a reveal, Brandon won't confirm it in a Livestream I don't think. I'm only saying that there is a possible answer that is much simpler and doesn't involve any parties other than the once we already knew were involved.
I'd rather the 10th Anniversary edition of Arcanum Unbounded only had the essays with no short stories included. I want to buy nice hard back versions of the short stories that fit with the other Dragonsteel edition books and I don't particularly want duplicate pages etc.
If we assume the people who brought trellegism to Scadrial were either from Taldain or got the religion by talking with Taldain worldhoppers in the distant past, “Trell” being a common name in Taldain could make sense right?
What's the thing that Eric always says at the end?
Caw
Can anyone explain why they are so sure Harmony did not tell Bloody Tan to pull Lessie at the exact moment.
I assumed that's the entire point of Leslie's issue with Harmony. And then later Wax's issues with Harmony.
If Harmony didn't, I don't understand 90% of the conflict in Shaddows of Self or Bands of Morning.
I would not say we are certain at all. We specifically said that's a possibility.
Regardless of exactly the circumstance with Bloody Tan, Harmony was pushing Lessie to get Wax to go to Elendel, which she refused. I think it's very unclear if Harmony did in fact pull Lessie there. It's possible.
Of course a lot of Wax's issue in Bands is that Harmony forced Wax to kill Lessie in Shadows and it was the only way.
Regardless, if it was as simple as "yeah, Harmony did it to get Wax to go back to Elendel" then I see no reason why he would be so cagey. More is going on here.
-Eric
@@17thShard Thanks. I think I just assumed it at some point and that became the lens I used to interpret the story. If I re-listen to them, I'll keep this question in my. 😊
Am I losing my mind or have u guys not talked about Elantris 2 and how it starts in another WoB ep?
1:26:30 It may be a planet whose inhabitants do not use a spoken language
I havn't watched anything yet, but just want to check, did i just get spoilet by the title or is it some kind of joke? Usually you guys are pretty good with warnings before giving spoilers
Are WoBs spoilers? I wouldn't call this one. Listen and get back to me there. This seems pretty consistent with how we have titled WoB episodes for years. -Eric
I actually have no major issues with the Atium retcon. The one that bothers me is Brass storing heat but being in the cognitive set of metals. He's admitted it was a mistake that he just didn't want to go back and retcon in the books and instead has created some BS justification for it. Physical heat being cognitive has the exact same absolute BS implications that Wheel of Time had with the Aes Sedai trick for ignoring heat and cold to avoid shivering or sweating. Sure it would prevent those bodily functions, which would be horrible for your body as those are designed to help regulate heat and keep you from dying.
I don't understand why you guys are so upset about the Atium retcon, to me it just makes sense for the God metals to be consistent and that they should all be Burnable by anybody in the cosmere.
I know people are sort of used to Twitter, but you might think about the Fediverse (e. g. Mastodon).
No vials of spores in the Tress box? What could be more appropriate?
One reason the fake WOBs fooled me for so long: Brandon loves to troll fans. I initially just took it, not as real Cosmere lore, but Brandon doing April Fools-like jokes.
Is anyone else now reviewing every Cosmere setting looking for Autonomy avatars? It makes sense that she'd leave Roshar alone, probably a part of her deal with Odium. And just finding Jaddeth on Sel (say) doesn't mean there aren't *other* avatars there. Autonomy likes competing avatars. (That would have been an interesting Shard: Competition.)
Kendra was great. (Not criticizing anyone else!) Nice to "meet" you.
So skybreakers cannot easily get off Roshar... what about just their Spren? Could someone have managed to get the Spren to Scadriel and made 'local' Skybreakers?
The whole reason Radiants can't leave is that their spren are stuck. I believe it's explicit that they could unbond and stop being Radiants and then just depart. That is, it isn't the Nahel Bond per se, it's the difficulty spren (and Cognitive Shadows, as Kelsier found) have in leaving a world.
Wouldn’t every craftsperson have creationspren?
craftsperson doesn't necessarily mean creative. The guy making horseshoes and nails all day long everyday is a craftsperson but I can't imagine creationspren would be all that interested after long.
@@wingracer1614 "Creation" doesn't necessarily imply "creative" in the usual sense. I can "create" a bowl from clay without inventing bowls, right?
@@carl11547 Depends. Are you an artist creating fine, beautiful, unique, decorative bowls or are you working in sweatshop pumping out as many cheap, generic bowls as you possibly can? Both are craftsmen but only one is going to attract creationspren
I don't think that Bloody Tan being controlled by Autonomy makes any sense at all.
First and foremost, the entire storyline of Paalm being angry at Harmony really only makes sense if Harmony was the one who engineered Bloody Tan. If it were Autonomy that influenced it (noting that Bloody Tan presumably can't burn atium and he doesn't have glowing eyes at this time), Paalm could have just stood up after being shot (being a Kandra and not dead), not no, she played along specifically. The entire story in shadows of self, and the reason for Wax being angry at Harmony isn't because Paalm was working for Harmony, that would be much more minor. It was the taking her away part that made him actually angry.
Second, I can't see any motivation for autonomy to do this. Why wax? Why out here? Is she trying to give Harmony a sword? Why waste time shooting a Kandra anyways? Don't forget that the 'similar wording ' used by bloody tan and later Paalm is specifically Paalm recreating the sounds for Wax, presumably to lead him to the conclusion of what happened.
Why would Brandon be so cagey if it was just "Yeah Harmony did it to get Wax back to Elendel"? There's more going on here. I don't think it is this simple. -Eric
WTCC 2 SPOILER
I think Taravangian having access to Breath works fine. He had access to Hoid's BioChroma SD card in the RoW Epilogue.
Still kinda mad that Era 1 Atium is an alloy of "pure" Atium and Electrum. B-BUT ELECTRUM IS ALREADY AN ALLOY BRANDON. Why is Atium an alloy that's made out of another alloy? THat's not how alloys work. GAHHHHHHH
Didn’t Sazed confess (via doggy TenSoon) that he took control of Paalm’s body and forced her to move to where Wax would shoot then play dead? I don’t think anything about Bloody Tan having “atium like powers” matters really, Sazed forced her to die in that moment
These WOBs are a lot less exiting than last episodes.
could the person who was captured and interrogated have been Reluur? We know he ran afoul of the Set sometime before the events of BoM.
I believe we mention this in episode and discount it. He would be missing his spike at the time and would not exactly be a useful source of information in that state. -Eric
@@17thShard yes, sorry. replied before you got to that part.
No new Cosmere novels for a year...
Is this one a prank?….
I wonder a lot about the trell connection. The era 1 mistborn mythology contrasts Trell with his brother Nalt who has one big eye, which sounds a lot like how the sun is described on dayside in Taldain. I also wonder whether Nalt is supposed to connect to Nalthis at all. Pretty curious.
Ok yeah so szeth is kinda hot idk
Don't care. It was absolutely skybreaker, maybe without their spren, or something wild.
It's too on the nose for it to not be a skybreaker
Completely agreed!
@@JennHernes when it turns out it was a skybreaker, I'll be so vindicated
Without their spren, they would also have to be a Coinshot or something to fly away like that.