We recorded this days before the spoiler Q&A came out for the Mini-Con. Text is on screen explaining this at the time and we have cut in in the last section where we talk about some exact phrasings later. We weren't sure it would ever even be out! -Eric
Eric: I think we're gonna do an episode on the Oathpact soon Kadie: Schedule it for 2023, when we have free time Brandon, in his secret writing lair: *laughs maniacally*
Hey! We got through 49 WoBs in 140 minutes which means we spent on average less than three minutes per WoB! I was actually looking and in our last WoB episode we only got through 28 WoBs. We did well here!! -Eric
I think Rayse thinking about Ruin imploding might just be about what Ruin is. If he knew about anything happening in Scadrial in the beginning, that being Preservation being weaker that Ruin, that would eventually lead to Ruin destroying everything, and eventually having nothing left to destroy but himself.
Imagine AU where Kaladin makes it to save Tein but kaladin dies defeating the Shardweilder. Tein continues to put up the facade of being this happy upbeat guy through slavery. He does try to make bridge 4 happy through illusions. But that dark rage still hides under the surface making friends with Moash...
Agents of Shield spoilers: Coulson was killed in Avengers 1 and resurrected using Kree DNA. Eventually he made a deal with Ghost Rider to save everyone at the cost of his life. He eventually died and then was brought back as an LMD. Dying was his superpower Also Agents of Shield is theoretically canon. There is now an infinite multiverse so everything is canon
We should remember that Brandon Sanderson was a fan of Dragonlance, and in Krynn neutrality is part of a 3-part balance of good-neutral-evil, or positive-neutral-negative. It could be that it isn't just investiture and anti-investiture that matter, but the unkeyed investiture that is of great importance. It could be part of a system, and the unkeyed is the natural state of investiture, and explains why it's all around. Hell, it could be something of a proton-neutron-electron set up. (I'm kidding about that part and just trying to break their minds by going from molecule of investiture to particles of investiture)
I did remember the small emerald! That WoB is my equivalent of the "1 dragon" WoB for Ian, as I'd adamantly assumed since Oathbringer than Renarin was not the first Enlightened Truthwatcher due to the Gem Archive. Now I'm so confused... was that Truthwatcher not considered enlightened because his mistspren was corrupted WHILE he bonded it? Is Brandon being sneaky and saying there have been Truthwatchers whose sprens have been corrupted, but no one has ever bonded a spren that was corrupted form the getgo? I don't know. Hmmmmmmmm. So many questions.
I get that this episode was probably recorded before Brandon released his reading from the Lost Metal but potential spoilers for Lost Metal there's some pretty heavy implication that there is a working perpendicularity used by at least Elendel's underground hidden in the caves, sewers, bunkers, and subway lines beneath the city.
I don't know if Ian will take solace in this, but there is an important qualifier with regard to the dragon WoB: Brandon said "only one dragon RIGHT NOW as a shard". That leaves open the possibility of dead Vessels - like Tanavast, Aona, or Skia. I beleive Rayse is still definately not a dragon based on Wit's conversation with Kaladin in RoW, and Kriss explicitly says that Ati and Leras are human, but there enough dead Vessels that there's still plenty of space for dragons among their rank. This does mean Ian's theory of Edgli being a dragon is wrong, but there's still space for her to not be human. Contrary to Ian, I actually really like the idea of Bavadin being human rather than a dragon. This may just be because I'm queer, but everything we know about her reads as very gender-fluid to me, and given that, I don't want her to be another example in the trope of "aliens and robots are allowed to be non-binary, but humans are not". ... I've probably spent an unreasonable amount of time thinking about the implications of this WoB, lol
I can't wait until they get to my Whimsy question, because I think it's the most Brandon has said about Whimsys "planet" Edit: hmmmm, how could anyone forget the worst person in the cosmere? Theopolis sucks so bad
Hmmm I don't know if I included that one from the spoiler stream as it was pretty inconclusive in my opinion. He just said he had plans and don't assume Whimsy has a planet necessarily. Unless I'm missing another one? -Eric
For the "were there other world hoppers at the party aside from Hoid and Khriss" question. We know Nazh is somewhere on planet from the advert in the broadsheet asking "do your metal tools speak to you?" and to tell K and N about it. Do you think they are looking for nightblood or other invested items like it?
Guess: Vasher, who both despises Wit and knows about Breath (Awakening) affecting memory, helps him recover his lost time. Hey, Math Professor Guy! How's your Fourier analysis? Anti-lights are just the same frequency, but 180 degrees out of phase (so the two frequencies cancel to no signal). The different colors are very much representations of different frequencies. You can't cancel 450 THz light with an out-of-alignment 1000 THz signal. If Brandon knew more physics, there would be a whole school of magic built on interference patterns.
@@17thShard I never finished my physics major. (My eventual degrees are in biology.) What I wrote is very basic "how electromagnetic (and other periodic) waves work" stuff. Fourier demonstrated that any curve could be decomposed into an addition of weighted sine waves.
The conversation The pursuer and El had tells me that they now have two ways of making this happen, one is the everstorm, and the other is via the oathpact; since the oathpact is broken, now it is faster than the everstorm.
Some of the paraphrased ones are on the video put on Brandon's channel I think it's this one for anyone that wants to watch czcams.com/video/DJSK0hwsqfA/video.html Oh and I remember Theopolis (Excuse the spelling, I listen to the audiobooks)
We comment on this later (and I put an acknowledgement of this on screen.) Of course just days after we record these he puts it up lol. But yeah I put the actual quotes on screen! -Eric
Regarding the unkeyed Dor thing, I think the only reason it would need to be unkeyed is because you're talking about bringing in a magic system tied to a different shard with this theoretical stamp. I don't think it's any more complicated than that.
Hi, wanted to make a point about your discussion of the example of converting Ruin to Preservation. I think the way that such a thing would work is that, you could de-Connect investiture from Ruin, and then re-Connect that same investiture to Preservation. So it can happen, just that there always needs to be that intermediate step of converting Connected investiture into un-Connected investiture.
Just throwing this out there: all investiture initially was one before the Shattering, so it's plausible that any flavour of investiture could be made into another flavout of investiture. It would just likely be stupidly difficult. I myself do prefer it being limited to combination, like the Rhythm of War or Harmony, but I can imagine it being possible.
I'm guessing that shards' intent acts as the baseline wavelength of their prospective light. Making anti-light requires intent, as you have to *knowingly and deliberately* stagger the wavelength as to cancel the baseline out. So anti-light is Connected to the original light insofar as it is only anti-light for that specific wavelength/shard. If the wavelength of the light changed, I don't think the anti-light would work anymore.
We talk about this in the end of the video, and there is some text on screen to explain that we recorded this prior to that. But we cut in at the end with several more wobs using the full audio. -Eric
@@17thShard I am so sorry! I was listening to it with the screen turned off and haven't gone through the entirety of the video. I promise I will finish the video before commenting next time :D
If a herald falls on the battlefield does it make a sound? or what happend to the body of a herald during a normal desolation when they die? does it goes to braze and just dissappear from where it fell? is a new body created on braze? what is a heralds body made of? flesh? investurure?something else?
I think you guys are confusing the directionality a bit regarding Sja-anat and Renarin. Sja-anat may very well have corrupted radiant spren in the past and maybe even ones that had been bound to a radiant. And I believe at that time the corruption process could very well have broken the bond as the spren would have essentially switched sides given the context of previous desolations. What makes Renarin different is just that he bonded an already enlightened/corrupted spren and Sja-anat is encouraging her children to bond with humans. The WoB doesn't say anything about Sja-anats previous activity except that the spren she corrupted did not bond. I personally doubt she would have enlightened a bound radiant spren. But she very well could have enlightened one whose radiant had died or individual higher spren who did not want to bond a human. I don't know, obviously, it's just that this WoB doesn't exclude previous corruptions of higher spren, only that if she did corrupt higher spren in the past, they did not bond. And if they were already bound, the corruption broke the bond.
So, theoretically, you can't convert ALL of a Shard's Investiture into another Shard's Investiture, because Brandon has stated that the power is technically unlimited. You'd have to cut off the Shard's power to the Spiritual Realm, effectively destroying the Shard first. But converting ALL of a shard's investiture is not possible because there is no "all."
Haven't read dragonsteel but is it possible that the "evil" in Threnody is something like a fainlife they mentioned? Or do you see that more like a badass shard?
@@17thShard oh, okay. So you were talking more like if we will get a shard world of whimsy or a whole novel about it or something along those lines. I want all of that so much but then you think about the time it will already take to do what is already known with the other worlds then whatever else there will be and it starts to add up to 10s of years. Lol
What happens when Nightblood kills Odium. He ate some of their Investiture, right? So where does that Investiture go, The spiritual Realm? This would mean it is No longer Connected to the Shard or Any Shard. As investiture cannot be destroyed. But it could be re- allocated or taken up by another?
Nightblood didn't kill Odium, only Rayse. He keeps investiture he eats, which is why he keeps getting more powerful. But yeah, once he eats it, it seems to stop being Connected to anyone else.
@@carl11547 sorry, yes not kill odium. But Rayse. OK so with night lood then. He does not have a limit to how much investiture he can hold? But he does have a limit at which he can eat at one time. Right?
@@rickymanwaring2066 Nightblood sure does seem to get full, as he did when he killed Rayse. It's strongly implied that he just keeps getting stronger over time, so able to eat more.
@@carl11547 I believe Nightblood does lose investiture over time in the form of black smoke when unsheathed (even partially); this seems to be much less than it consumes though
It's a magical thing or entity we know basically nothing about. You can request the (noncanonical) manuscript of the original Aether of Night on 17th Shard; link in description. Obviously it seems like there are some big aether changes. -Eric
We recorded this days before the spoiler Q&A came out for the Mini-Con. Text is on screen explaining this at the time and we have cut in in the last section where we talk about some exact phrasings later. We weren't sure it would ever even be out! -Eric
Eric: I think we're gonna do an episode on the Oathpact soon
Kadie: Schedule it for 2023, when we have free time
Brandon, in his secret writing lair: *laughs maniacally*
😭 That was going to be our March 12 or 13th episode. It's going to be delayed a lot. RIP. Oh well! -Eric
“Let’s not spend 5 minutes per WoB”
*checks video length*
Hey! We got through 49 WoBs in 140 minutes which means we spent on average less than three minutes per WoB! I was actually looking and in our last WoB episode we only got through 28 WoBs. We did well here!! -Eric
Yeah, this was a ton of WoBs! Love the show; always great content
Love the idea of audience stand in. Great video everyone, looking forward to more, hopefully more frequently
I hope I was a good one haha!
It was so good having Katie on, as a member of the audience I felt I was stood in for, quite well.
I feel like I haven't seen kadie before, but I appreciate that she said wobuary for me. She really is the audience stand in
I've only been on a couple episodes so far. I'm glad you liked it XD
Kadie asks all the questions I didn't even realise I was thinking, MVP of this episode.
'Waters my crops and warms my heart' is the most wholesome saying ever and I love it, Ene you're wonderful!
I think Rayse thinking about Ruin imploding might just be about what Ruin is. If he knew about anything happening in Scadrial in the beginning, that being Preservation being weaker that Ruin, that would eventually lead to Ruin destroying everything, and eventually having nothing left to destroy but himself.
Imagine AU where Kaladin makes it to save Tein but kaladin dies defeating the Shardweilder. Tein continues to put up the facade of being this happy upbeat guy through slavery. He does try to make bridge 4 happy through illusions. But that dark rage still hides under the surface making friends with Moash...
That first WOB and the discussion of it is so much funnier after the the secret projects reveal
Agents of Shield spoilers:
Coulson was killed in Avengers 1 and resurrected using Kree DNA. Eventually he made a deal with Ghost Rider to save everyone at the cost of his life. He eventually died and then was brought back as an LMD. Dying was his superpower
Also Agents of Shield is theoretically canon. There is now an infinite multiverse so everything is canon
We should remember that Brandon Sanderson was a fan of Dragonlance, and in Krynn neutrality is part of a 3-part balance of good-neutral-evil, or positive-neutral-negative. It could be that it isn't just investiture and anti-investiture that matter, but the unkeyed investiture that is of great importance. It could be part of a system, and the unkeyed is the natural state of investiture, and explains why it's all around.
Hell, it could be something of a proton-neutron-electron set up. (I'm kidding about that part and just trying to break their minds by going from molecule of investiture to particles of investiture)
"And Brandon MURDERED him!"
This is a nice out of context phrase
I'm excited for another spoilers Q&A
I did remember the small emerald! That WoB is my equivalent of the "1 dragon" WoB for Ian, as I'd adamantly assumed since Oathbringer than Renarin was not the first Enlightened Truthwatcher due to the Gem Archive. Now I'm so confused... was that Truthwatcher not considered enlightened because his mistspren was corrupted WHILE he bonded it? Is Brandon being sneaky and saying there have been Truthwatchers whose sprens have been corrupted, but no one has ever bonded a spren that was corrupted form the getgo? I don't know. Hmmmmmmmm. So many questions.
Yeah, I have no idea. I definitely want an answer to that someday. -Eric
Is anyone else getting an ad about how "smoking puts metal in your lungs" while watching this episode? Haha. So close, CZcams algorithm, yet so far.
This is absolutely hilarious. -Eric
I get that this episode was probably recorded before Brandon released his reading from the Lost Metal but
potential spoilers for Lost Metal
there's some pretty heavy implication that there is a working perpendicularity used by at least Elendel's underground hidden in the caves, sewers, bunkers, and subway lines beneath the city.
There will be a Lost Previews episode on that reading... Sometime soonish!
Love listening to shardcast
Been waiting for this one. I am a big fan of the Coppermind.
I don't know if Ian will take solace in this, but there is an important qualifier with regard to the dragon WoB:
Brandon said "only one dragon RIGHT NOW as a shard".
That leaves open the possibility of dead Vessels - like Tanavast, Aona, or Skia. I beleive Rayse is still definately not a dragon based on Wit's conversation with Kaladin in RoW, and Kriss explicitly says that Ati and Leras are human, but there enough dead Vessels that there's still plenty of space for dragons among their rank.
This does mean Ian's theory of Edgli being a dragon is wrong, but there's still space for her to not be human.
Contrary to Ian, I actually really like the idea of Bavadin being human rather than a dragon. This may just be because I'm queer, but everything we know about her reads as very gender-fluid to me, and given that, I don't want her to be another example in the trope of "aliens and robots are allowed to be non-binary, but humans are not".
... I've probably spent an unreasonable amount of time thinking about the implications of this WoB, lol
I can't wait until they get to my Whimsy question, because I think it's the most Brandon has said about Whimsys "planet"
Edit: hmmmm, how could anyone forget the worst person in the cosmere?
Theopolis sucks so bad
Hmmm I don't know if I included that one from the spoiler stream as it was pretty inconclusive in my opinion. He just said he had plans and don't assume Whimsy has a planet necessarily. Unless I'm missing another one? -Eric
@17th Shard haha nope that was it, I also thought it was pretty inconclusive, but as a whimsy simp, I eat up any information I can get.
So it turns out we did include this one and I just misremembered! -Eric
Once again I know not what comment to make, but engagement!
Tell us we're cool :P
That first WOB about the Aether almost confirms 1 of the 3 Cosmere books will be about them I feel!
Yo, shout out to the small emerald ✊🏻😔
Imagine navani’s peroendicularity as a oathgate, that transports you from anywere to the tower
For the "were there other world hoppers at the party aside from Hoid and Khriss" question. We know Nazh is somewhere on planet from the advert in the broadsheet asking "do your metal tools speak to you?" and to tell K and N about it. Do you think they are looking for nightblood or other invested items like it?
Guess: Vasher, who both despises Wit and knows about Breath (Awakening) affecting memory, helps him recover his lost time.
Hey, Math Professor Guy! How's your Fourier analysis? Anti-lights are just the same frequency, but 180 degrees out of phase (so the two frequencies cancel to no signal). The different colors are very much representations of different frequencies. You can't cancel 450 THz light with an out-of-alignment 1000 THz signal. If Brandon knew more physics, there would be a whole school of magic built on interference patterns.
It's been quite a while since grad school for me. I just teach at a community college now, I'm no expert really. -Eric
@@17thShard I never finished my physics major. (My eventual degrees are in biology.) What I wrote is very basic "how electromagnetic (and other periodic) waves work" stuff. Fourier demonstrated that any curve could be decomposed into an addition of weighted sine waves.
The conversation The pursuer and El had tells me that they now have two ways of making this happen, one is the everstorm, and the other is via the oathpact; since the oathpact is broken, now it is faster than the everstorm.
To be fair, Harmony did make the north of Scadriel extra fertile, so I am sure it could handle the extra demand from inter cosmere commerce.
Re:Theopolis: Oh yeah, that jerk! He lasted for, what, 5 pages?
I'm starting a petition to make feather come on 1 WOB episode.
She was on a while back! She had fun :) That's part of the reason why I like having Kadie or someone like this here. -Eric
Coming back to hear pure unkeyed Dor after reading The Lost Metal…
2:10:54 You guys totally missed the opportunity to say “in the theoretical realm”!
Some of the paraphrased ones are on the video put on Brandon's channel
I think it's this one for anyone that wants to watch czcams.com/video/DJSK0hwsqfA/video.html
Oh and I remember Theopolis (Excuse the spelling, I listen to the audiobooks)
We comment on this later (and I put an acknowledgement of this on screen.) Of course just days after we record these he puts it up lol. But yeah I put the actual quotes on screen! -Eric
@@17thShard Ahh alright!
Also I think it's amazing and insane that you're replying to almost every comment
I like commenting on release day! I try to comment on stuff afterwards, but then I forget what was in the episode :)
Mad lad with the old fashioned
Regarding the unkeyed Dor thing, I think the only reason it would need to be unkeyed is because you're talking about bringing in a magic system tied to a different shard with this theoretical stamp. I don't think it's any more complicated than that.
I read Shadows for silence in the forests of Hell less than a month ago, and I did not recognize the name Theopolis
Wobbuffet!
Wynaut!
hey, more Shards could be dragons
"right now"
Start a hastag
I know Theopolis! Please do the Threnody podcast it’s such a cool planet
Eventually we will, but I don't think soon. -Eric
Hi, wanted to make a point about your discussion of the example of converting Ruin to Preservation. I think the way that such a thing would work is that, you could de-Connect investiture from Ruin, and then re-Connect that same investiture to Preservation. So it can happen, just that there always needs to be that intermediate step of converting Connected investiture into un-Connected investiture.
Shard plate on animals??? Does this mean we have to potential to have shard bears??
They happen to think that they think 🤔
lol om the Agents of Shield tangent
I still want Renarin type surge binders to be called Secret Keepers!
WTCC 2 spoiler
If you don't think the fandom has an unusual fascination with Jasnah, you clearly haven't been by r/cremposting in the last year.
I think what they were disagreeing with wasn't that there was a fascination, but that it was unusual :P
@@aonene17 Ah, perhaps I misworded my comment. I'm saying the fascination is _very_ unusual, and by unusual I mean often unsettling lol.
@@VoidLantadd ah yeah fair enough
Happy WoBuary!
Odium just wanted to get rid of Autonomy because they're too confusing and complicated even for him :D
Just throwing this out there: all investiture initially was one before the Shattering, so it's plausible that any flavour of investiture could be made into another flavout of investiture. It would just likely be stupidly difficult. I myself do prefer it being limited to combination, like the Rhythm of War or Harmony, but I can imagine it being possible.
Doesn't hoid have the scepter that can do that?
I'm guessing that shards' intent acts as the baseline wavelength of their prospective light. Making anti-light requires intent, as you have to *knowingly and deliberately* stagger the wavelength as to cancel the baseline out. So anti-light is Connected to the original light insofar as it is only anti-light for that specific wavelength/shard. If the wavelength of the light changed, I don't think the anti-light would work anymore.
Renarin is the first enlighted Truthwatcher. That need not mean that he is the first enlightened Radiant.
I love wob episodes. I didn't quite understand why the dragonsteel minicon was paraphrased? Didn't Brandon upload the spoiler q&a to youtube? Cheers
We talk about this in the end of the video, and there is some text on screen to explain that we recorded this prior to that. But we cut in at the end with several more wobs using the full audio. -Eric
@@17thShard I am so sorry! I was listening to it with the screen turned off and haven't gone through the entirety of the video. I promise I will finish the video before commenting next time :D
All good! :)
If a herald falls on the battlefield does it make a sound? or what happend to the body of a herald during a normal desolation when they die? does it goes to braze and just dissappear from where it fell? is a new body created on braze? what is a heralds body made of? flesh? investurure?something else?
Would Ishar have better luck fusing an honorspren to an Amian body? Given the wob about the two being similar in a way
I think you guys are confusing the directionality a bit regarding Sja-anat and Renarin. Sja-anat may very well have corrupted radiant spren in the past and maybe even ones that had been bound to a radiant. And I believe at that time the corruption process could very well have broken the bond as the spren would have essentially switched sides given the context of previous desolations. What makes Renarin different is just that he bonded an already enlightened/corrupted spren and Sja-anat is encouraging her children to bond with humans. The WoB doesn't say anything about Sja-anats previous activity except that the spren she corrupted did not bond. I personally doubt she would have enlightened a bound radiant spren. But she very well could have enlightened one whose radiant had died or individual higher spren who did not want to bond a human. I don't know, obviously, it's just that this WoB doesn't exclude previous corruptions of higher spren, only that if she did corrupt higher spren in the past, they did not bond. And if they were already bound, the corruption broke the bond.
So, theoretically, you can't convert ALL of a Shard's Investiture into another Shard's Investiture, because Brandon has stated that the power is technically unlimited. You'd have to cut off the Shard's power to the Spiritual Realm, effectively destroying the Shard first. But converting ALL of a shard's investiture is not possible because there is no "all."
When you unkey the Dor you get ... ajar. :-) *rimshod*
Haven't read dragonsteel but is it possible that the "evil" in Threnody is something like a fainlife they mentioned? Or do you see that more like a badass shard?
I like this idea! -Eric
This character's primary weapon is not a sword... *It's her tighs!* 🤣
It's all the same investiture in the spiritual realm right? So I could see how you could "blank" storm light and turn it into void light
I thought Brandon confirmed Whimsy.
Whimsy's name, yes. Anything else, not really.
@@17thShard oh, okay. So you were talking more like if we will get a shard world of whimsy or a whole novel about it or something along those lines. I want all of that so much but then you think about the time it will already take to do what is already known with the other worlds then whatever else there will be and it starts to add up to 10s of years. Lol
Yup, that's exactly the problem!
Can anyone explain the connection between Elend and Zahel
It's a question about magical power level, like lerasium Mistborn vs. Returned, and distinguishing those. -Eric
Elend was also highly Invested when he died.
What happens when Nightblood kills Odium. He ate some of their Investiture, right? So where does that Investiture go, The spiritual Realm? This would mean it is No longer Connected to the Shard or Any Shard.
As investiture cannot be destroyed. But it could be re- allocated or taken up by another?
Nightblood didn't kill Odium, only Rayse. He keeps investiture he eats, which is why he keeps getting more powerful. But yeah, once he eats it, it seems to stop being Connected to anyone else.
@@carl11547 sorry, yes not kill odium. But Rayse. OK so with night lood then. He does not have a limit to how much investiture he can hold? But he does have a limit at which he can eat at one time. Right?
@@rickymanwaring2066 Nightblood sure does seem to get full, as he did when he killed Rayse. It's strongly implied that he just keeps getting stronger over time, so able to eat more.
@@carl11547 I believe Nightblood does lose investiture over time in the form of black smoke when unsheathed (even partially); this seems to be much less than it consumes though
Well we have the mini con recording now. so no need of paraphrasing?
Yes, this is acknowledged on screen and the WoBs pasted are the correct ones, but we couldn't rerecord everything.
Theopolis bashing is good civilization. Always welcome any reason to hate on Theopolis.
Im confused is the aethers a people?
It's a magical thing or entity we know basically nothing about. You can request the (noncanonical) manuscript of the original Aether of Night on 17th Shard; link in description. Obviously it seems like there are some big aether changes. -Eric
nope to theoplis
❤️
i dont know who theopolis is
Time for a SfSitFoH reread :P
If it helps, "theopolis" would be Greek for "city of the god" or potentially "city of gods".
20:11
Does a woman kandra wearing a man's body *really* count as cross-dressing? Lol
First