Lionel Messi or Diego Maradona: Who's better all-time? | ESPN FC
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- čas přidán 27. 09. 2022
- ESPN FC discusses Lionel Messi's resume and where he ranks all-time.
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Shaka’s argument: if higuain was a better striker, Messi would be the GOAT.
Cristiano Ronaldo has the stats and accomplishments of Messi and in his prime he showed up more than messi in big games.. he should also always get a mention in the goat convo
Shaka is still right though. Win the WC, end of story.
@@Andrewthe22 Ronaldo is finished bruh 😂😂😂
@@Andrewthe22 correct. Ronaldo stats is better as well. With more champs league medallion
@@figo007tv He is not right.
When it comes to individual quality, Messi is literally Maradona+tons of goals and longetivity
Plus Maradona wouldn’t have won a WC without the blatant handball.
@@jorgeherrera1074 nah ! I'm a Messi fan btw
Messi is Maradonna when he is playing Jamaica and Panama
@@EE-kt8sh and Ronaldo??
Messi could never dribble like Maradona. Messi relied on two of the best midfielders of all time plus always had a great striker next to him. Maradona carried Napoli and Argentina to trophies
If Argentina wins, Shaka will be like, "well Pele has 3".
🤣🤣 exactly! The goal post will change
Exactly
yea before it was Messi hasn't won the Copa America so he's not the best yet 😂🤣
Imo R9 was great but his playing style was not so sustainable for human body & it was proved when he had all the injuries w/o any collision or smthng like that. Maradona was better than Pele imo as 80s was harder to play football. Maradona peak was the highest of all time but was for few years. Messi is consistently performing for 15 years at highest std. Messi playing style does not have flair to plz a amateur fan as R9 or Ronaldinho had. Messi can play any where in midfield apart from CDM role and he will be best. He is magician and best in every aspect of game be it scoring, passing, controlling tempo, free kicks, etc. Messi depends on his genius iq to be 3 steps ahead of his defender, body feints, acceleration rather than flashy footwork. So, imo Messi is slightly better than above as the football today is more fast, technical,
😭😭😭😭😭
Shaka's logic: 3 great seasons + world cup > 20 amazing season + no world cup
Exactly… You are doing amazing for 20 years consistently… but if you doesnt have world cip, you are not a GOAT: Shaka 🎉😢
I agree with this list. Messi fan but a world cup will solidify him as the greatest.
@@gumbz_ke Rabiot vs Gerrard...who is better
@@gumbz_ke we know but still he is GOAT without wc, we were talking about shaka’s mentality
literally
Messi longevity is so insane plus he is the greatest goal scorer creator dribbler. Freekicks passing ..the greatest
Plays in a easy era
@@s4mnblack easy era?
All this greatest but please u can't get your team over the line sorry not sorry all the Balon d'or accolades how about u blame the supporting cast for that we well
@King Darwin Agree. We just can't compare players from era to era.....nutrition, fitness, pitch quality, laws on tackling, defending has all changed, substantially in some cases. Both were giants in their respective eras.
@@etzjunior_ yes you heard right ...
Maradona played when defenders actually tackled...man marking was the system and not zonal, maradona led Argentinas team of average players to WC, took Napoli team of average players to first ever seria a title, ball was heavier eve.n, and the game was designed around defending back then and not attack that's why goals per game have increased a lot in this generation.
Messi played with two of the greatest players of all time - Iniesta and Xavi + Neymar (twice), Mbappe, Ibrahimovic, Etoo, Henry, Suarez, Villa, Busquets, And even Ronaldinho ...basically he played with the almost all the best players of his generation and they worked for him to score goals. You can't mention one all time great player Maradona played with.
Messi played in la Liga where he really had one team to compete against, Maradona dominated seria a which was the best league in the world at the time and he was up against almost all the best players in the world at the time e.g platini, van basten etc.
So you are entitled to your opinion but in mine these factors show why Messi can't claim superiority to Maradona.
Now when we look at the big time, Maradona delivered at the biggest moment with the best world cup goal ever at a young age not still trying to do it at 34. Maradona made it happen and all I hear is Messis team mates let him down.
Maradona also never was in any team that got whooped 8-2.
Messi does short compact movements that are efficient, Maradona was dazzling and would dribble a player and do it again just to prove it wasn't a fluke.
Messi is a great but Don Diego is God.
Pele famously won 3 World Cups. But for the 2nd one, he only played 1 game and was injured for the rest of the tournament. But it still counts as a World Cup that he won. So, technically, Messi could get injured in Qatar and miss most of the tournament, but "win" the World Cup. Silly standard to apply to a team game.
Pele is still the best to ever done it. The problem with my generation, we do not appreciate the past in the same light. Even today people will say LeBron is better than Jordan wearing a pari a Jordan on their feet. When you are done playing football your legacy will either grow or be forgotten like Steven Gerrard for England. When he was playing he was talked about a legend the moment he stop playing. No one ever dare compare him to Zidane ever.
Pele still one 2 more that he actively participated in. Your argument is not the equivalent.
if Messi wins a world Cup. ONE World Cup and it's because he's hurt he would be on a roster of a world Cup winning team not winning a world Cup. For that to be irrelevant you would have to win multiple world cups that your were actively engaged in.
Ronaldo got injured in Eruo 2016 Final but he played in 6 prior games tot he Final. he put them in position to be in the final and participated in the final, that's not the same if he would've gotten hurt Game 1 of the tournament and somehow Portgual won without him.
What about the other 2? 😂 how about Zidane 2 World Cup finals. One World Cup won. 3 finals goals.
Brazil won the world cup with Pele injured. Could Argentina win without Messi?
@@A2TRaNQuiLiiTy You're missing my point completely. Football is a team game, so it's possible for someone to "win" a world cup despite not having played (well) or to lose a world cup after having played wonderfully. That's why I personally look at an individual's performance rather than a trophy list.
My issue is that the bar will always move away from Messi.
It used to be "he hasn't won an international trophy", but then he won it.
Now it's "no, not just ANY international trophy, just the World Cup".
If (Lord willing) Argentina wins the 2022 World Cup, the argument will move to "he only won ONE World Cup".
He'll never win that argument against people who don't want him to.
@@critiqueeverything3297not the GOAT but he will be placed above Maradona officially
@@netaji-thebritishslayer4379 he is but without a World Cup a Player Will never be the greatest. Maradona and Pelé are the 2 greats. Di Stefano, Puskas, Eusebio are legendary but doesnt come close
@@JustMe-nm8wv never above maradona !!!!! Look at the skills look at the reputation
@@jakegutierrez2323 at least he will be on the same step. Maybe Maradona had better Skills in his prime but Messi has longevity going for him. He was much more consistent as a player. Maradona was better in his prime but we talk overall as a player including everything and than Messi is for me the best personally. Everyone has his own opinion and my opinion is as good as yours. Actually i always watch black and white clips of Di Stefano, Puskas, Pelé, Eusebio and Maradona
@@critiqueeverything3297 have you seen him today against Croatia? simply amazing
Maradona: 1World Cup, 2 leagues (350 goals,200 asists)
Lio Messi : 4 UCL, Copa America, 11 leagues, 41 titles, 6 golden boots (770 goals, 340 asists... and counting)
But still is Messi who needs to prove himself 🤣
Even if Messi wins the WC these people wouldn't accept it
Agree
Maradon did not play with the greatest Barcelona team ever.
@@kamaaladiin and messi outplayed them all
@@kamaaladiin If Messi had the same statistics and trophies as Maradona or at least close then yes i would say maradona is way better, because he played for average teams, but it's not the case.
Messi doubles his stats, and triples almost quadruples his titles, and he's not done yet.
@@diegolisandror2 Messi without Barcelona, same Barcelona that had best Spain national team ever is nothing without them, look at him at PSG just average player
I think it is really stupid to say someone isn't the best based on not having a title that is won by a team
I agree but I think Shaka was implying that Pele and Maradona carried their teams to world cup victory and is trying to say that if Messi is truly the Goat he should be able to do the same which I think is ridiculous as well
@@rlubin9356 messi did carry Argentina to WC Final
You pretend as if Messi did amazingly as an individual in world cups. Look at his goals and assists....shocking compared to his club level
@@sumedhfootball6234 He didn't carry anything. Their defense did. He didn't score a goal oast the group stage. Stop lying
@@EE-kt8sh and your trash Ronaldo didn't even pass Round of 16 in the World Cup 🤡🤡🤡
According Shakas logic, then he should have added Gerd Muller and Zidane, both of whom won the Champions League/European Cup which Ronaldo never did.
That's different
@@lexkanyima2195 that makes no sense. how can a criteria matter in one regard but not in another. thats called being inconsistent
You don't run away from logic my boy . And no Ron doesn't come in top 5
Pele & Maradona have never won the UCL...
@@muleyamwiinga3988 they don’t need to win
I'll some it up (in my 40's I know the influence of both Messi and Maradona) - Maradona is the greatest talent of all time, Messi is the greatest player.
100% agree.
why does he need to win a world cup? that's a team effort not only an individual accomplishment
To me the best player in the world lifts it’s to past it’s limits and closes it out when they did they’re part to keep it close and Messi has failed in that aspect I love Messi but that WC is that last jewel to his crown
@@lakersworld2125 and he must prove to the world that he can win UCL without Xavi/Iniesta and the great Barcelona team (2009-2015), which he has not managed to do so far.
@@hsafootballworld1321 well let’s say BIG WHAT IF he wins the UCL with his current team not much credit will go to him in my opinion
@@lakersworld2125 yeah I agree on that one.
Mbappe and Neymar are playing a more important role than Messi right now.
Messi would be part of that success but not the most important player if Paris wins UCL.
That’s why Messi should have went to Manchester City instead, he would have been the main man.
In the world cup you play with players you're less familiar with and the routines are not as well rehearsed like tiki taka in Barcelona,so the moments of individual brilliance tend to make more of a difference.
Lionel Messi is by far the best player because he didn't cheat the game and didn't involve himself in drugs 👍🏼
Stop lying he used to take growth hormones at barca
NONSENSE
He had to take drugs as a youth so he could grow
except all those hormone injections but yeah you right
Untrue. Messi was giving huge amounts of a banned drug to make him grow.
Imagine putting Messi 4th best of all time 😂😂😂
Many EX top players do put him 4th. I've seen them answer. Many put R9 or Zidane with Maradona and Pele etc
I would put Messi in 3rd place after Maradona and Pele.
There are still things Messi have to prove.
He has never made weak teams win anything big.
Like since Barcelona golden era (2009-2015) ended and Xavi/Iniesta left, he never managed to lead Barcelona to an UCK triumph.
And he has never managed to win WC. Messi mostly won big things when played in very strong teams.
Pele
Maradona
Messi
Cristiano Ronaldo
Zidane
@@hsafootballworld1321 like every other player ....hen was the last time ronaldo made a small team do anything big??.....Plus the 2018-19 season should be taken into account here as one of the biggest carryjobs ever...
@@hsafootballworld1321 you still have to prove that you're in a good mental condition
So 15 years + of goat level consistency breaking records and having the craziest stats in history. Vs 3 years at goat level and a World Cup
People also forget that in Maradona’s days, there was no such argument or pressure as “win the World Cup and you’ll be the GOAT”. & As good as Maradona was, he didn’t do absolutely everything on his own + The Margins of winning and not winning can be so minor. Maradona didn’t score in the 86 final so if his teammates finishing was slightly off that day, or his defence/goalkeeper was worse, he wouldn’t be considered the goat… These factors are completely out of his control. & it’s the same for Messi today.
No sir, the pressure was the same. Even in the 50s. Otherwise Zizinho would be ranked higher and be remembered as one of the best Brazilians ever but they failed. Same with Puskas in 54. The World Cup and Olympics(till the 90s) were seen as the top international competitions. The Maradona World Cup win was one of the best individual performances ever in a tournament. Maradona was not even ranked as the best going into the competition and Argentina were 8th favourites at best. Argentina were not that clinical in that competition as the missed a lot of chances but Maradona kept creating more. His performances transcendended the opposition to the point that after Argentina blew the lead he was able to create one almost instantly which won the game.
Napoli was mostly a circus show but that World Cup caused them to be serious about investing and he instantly won them the league and it would have been at least 3 in 4 years if a third party did not prevent Napoli from winning. In 1990 on a broken ankle and in an injury riddled team, he carried that team to a 2nd place finish(Messi's best finish) and lost due to a Voller dive. His '90 performance was as good if not better than '14 Messi.
He did not score final but scored two in semis, and he did assist the final and third goal to open teammate who burst and scored...he played an impact
No one has ever dominated a World Cup like Maradona did in 86. Entire defenses were focused on trying to take his legs out.
By Shaka’s logic, if you are from a small footballing nation you can’t be the best player
Most likely you cant be and theres no eg to disprove this
@@LoftusBlake does that make any sense to you….a footballer being judged by the country he plays for and not his actual footballing ability
Imagine if Haaland went on to break every goalscore record, but he possibly won’t win the World Cup because of Norway. So he can never be the best.
Great logic from Shaka!
@@LoftusBlake Christiano Ronaldo, there you go
It’s kinda weird because Trinidad will never win a word cup
Everyday ESPN wants to know who’s better than messi 😂😂
GENIUS
EN COPAS AMERICA Y MUNDIALES
MESSI P.J GOLES
BRASIL 3 0
URUGU 3 0
CHILE 5 1
COLOM 5 0
ALEMA 3 0
FRANCI 1 0
BELGIC 1 0
SUIZA 1 0
HOLAN 2 0
TOTAL= 24 1
Very true indeed! People miss a lot this very reality of comparing others to Messi, as if he is the standard of the best. Well, that's the hint really. I never heard people comparing Maradona or Pele to CR7, but always to Messi.
Well said, actually no one is better than Messi
Because there has to be debate by obligation. It is more entertaining to open a debate that has already been clarified and closed than to agree that Messi is the GOAT without having to argue
None like Messi... He's incomparable...
Can we just all agree that Messi is the best, most skilled footballer of all time. It is very obvious. To me it isn't even a debate. The things he has done are supernatural and he's done it for a very long time.
and yet he will forever be n .2 in the eyes of the argentinians ...
so ask yourself if someone who is not even considered to be n.1 argentinian player let alone n.1 world wide
and is considered behind diego by his own countrymen could be n.1 of all time .
messi forfeit his chance for greatnes in 2014 WC - to be fair though that german squad was borderline unstoppable -
hands down the best national team i have ever seen in the history of world cups .
@Giulio Romeo now you look like a complete fool.
The way maradona won the World Cup is different, plus what he did on the club levels with Napoli it shows he almost never needed a big club to show his ability ❤
But he doesn't have a lot of team trophies. A great player will showcase his abilities anywhere. Winning titles is a different story.
Ebenezer bro, I understand you but greatness is measured in time not stats, it’s how you name touches and stays in people’s hearts when you’re no longer a player in you field, it’s obvious we still talk about pele or maradona in the present after 50years plus, do you know how many great players have touched the ball but these two are always above, even in hearts of fans who never watched them, but after their down we never no their may come a talented and makes us forget them quickly but Messi is up there, but in terms of greatness we still hold pele and maradona, coz their still present in our hearts even without touching the ball love❤️
I think Napoli was a good team back then wat are u trying to say
Clerance the problem you think, make sure your thinking has evidence
@@ebenezerindi1766 we talk about i dividual performance not team achievement.
Everyone who saw messi and maradona era would choose Maradona as the best Player.
Someone said this and i quote "Even Maradona isn't Maradona everyday, Messi is Maradona every day"
Nope messi is messi every day wen Maradona used to be in Diego mode i mean from 1976 to 1983 no1 come close to his level.’ You should check it out how he used to play in argentinos juniors , first time in boca juniors and also the juvenile world cup in japan wen he was 19.’ He was unstoppable
Pablo's biggest flex... I'm a friend of Messi!
@The Night is there any bigger?
Pablo is all of us when we talk about messi. Bruh messi makes everyone emotional
Maradona ❤️ always.. He was one man army... Messi is nothing without good midfielders in his team
Do you even watch or play football ???
@@hijamkishan9157 absolutely yes brother... probably more than you
@@rishovdas8353 then probably you must take a look at how Messi became THE Playmaker for Barcelona for last 5 seasons and still became Top scorer & assister. Save Argentina many times from embarassing results, Qualified them for World Cup , won the Copa America as player of the tournament etc. Maradona will always be my legend but Messi has surpassed him.
@@balerion77 see the profile of the players Messi has played with and see the profile of the players Maradona has played with.... you will get ur answer....
The bar has always been higher for Messi. Maybe because he’s been so good for so long. When he hadn’t won with Argentina they said he can’t be better than CR7. Then he won it and everyone said nah he’s gotta win a WC. Watch him win it and then people say nah he’s gotta win 3.
Meanwhile those are the same people that will still call CR the goat despite never even touching the WC final 😂
Meanwhile those are the same people that will still call CR the goat despite never having touched the WC final 😂
Well he did won one of the weakest copa ever tbh. Its not people hating, its just facts. It was 4th copa in 5 years(6 years but only because it was delayed for one year due to covid), 10 teams played in 2 groups out of which 4 out of 5 goes through. There was no fans on the stadiums, and messi didnt score in semifinal and final. Thas why people are disrespecting that copa, not because they have some agenda against messi
@@Quantitum712 Messi had the most assists and goals in that tournament 😂😂😂
@@Quantitum712 and Ronaldo won the weakest Euro,what did he do last Euro?,He was a ghost against Belgium 🤡🤡🤡
Was just dying to hear pablo say “we came soo close in 2014…. But higuain made sure we didn’t”
LMAO
Let’s not forget in the Pele era, he was playing against people with literal day jobs😂 the standard of football today is on a completely different level to back then. To Shaka’s point that the World Cup is the highest level of football, I just don’t understand how you could say that. Maybe back in the day when football talent was spread across leagues all around the world. Now it’s impossible to argue that the highest level of football is not the champions league. Not only do the top clubs have talent from all over the world in there team, arguably more than most national teams, but these teams train and play together day in and day out. I don’t think there’s ever been a national team capable of beating prime Barcelona. Older people seem to romanticise the players they grew up watching. To be fair, we probably will too, but being as objective as I can be, I do not see an argument where Messi is not the goat
Exactly
Top argument here
Messi is the measurement to decide a player's greatness. So it’s very palpable how great Messi is!
I think u mean Pele
Pele was the best of his era. Maradona of his. Messi of his. There is no one absolute 'Greatest'. It's a game of such longevity with so many fantastic players, to say one single person is THE greatest, doesn't do justice to all the greats.
Agree!
Yeahhh….Messi is better
Yea but maradona is the Goat.. and much better than Messi.. if you put Messi to play with a team which there is no star player plus bottom on the league . He definitely can't do anything to make the club to became champion of Europe , 2 time league champion and becoming world club champion too.. but Maradona did it with Napoli
@@Pey-Gang That's your opinion. Maradona was a #10. Messi is more of a 9 1/2. Not the same styles, nor positions to compare. Napoli were bad the year before but it's not like they hadn't smelled success. In the early 80s Napoli were in the top 4 of Serie A. Maradona scored just 88 goals for Napoli in what, 7 years? Messi did that in 2 for Barcelona. And let's not act like Napoli were atrocious. They had some great players on those teams and once Maradona joined, it solidified their reputation and other good players joined. Don't get me wrong Maradona was amazing and the greatest of his time but not the greatest of all time. Not to me nor many people.
What the man has been doing for the last 15 years is incomparable to any. Winning the world cup is a collective effort of the team and luck. Messi solo handedly took Argentina to the finals in 2014 and ended up loosing 0-1 in the finals its just unlucky. For this generation he is and will always be the GOAT of football. No Pele no Maradona
Maradona literally took a lower table Napoli side on his back and won them 2 scudetti, uefa cup and Coppa Italia. Messi wouldn't be capable to do this.
@@frafrafrafrafra Nobody cares about that.
Messi is officially GOAT after won Copa and 7th Ballon d'or.
@@rossgeller9532 I think it’s very hard to say GOAT without that WC in the trophy case I’m a big Messi fan but I would say he’s the best player I have seen in my lifetime
@@frafrafrafrafra Honestly, thats is nothing compared to what Messi did all these years.
@@rossgeller9532 No sorry that is not good enough for GOAT status, you need 3 World Cups and 1284 goals
I’m Mexican and if somehow ever there was a World Cup final with Mexico and Argentina I would want Messi to win it …..
How would you not want your own country to win a World Cup..just because your favourite player is Messi!! I’ve seen people who don’t even like football more patriotic than you when it comes to their national team!!
@@daysofgrace7818 I was born in America so my patriotism is with U.S. Im Mexican American my whole life but Messi in a final is once in a lifetime
Messi was Best Player in a World Cup (2014), in 2 Copa Americas (2016, 2021), and in the Olympics in 2008… that says something..
Zabeleta spot on 💯
Maradona all-time stats:
Appereances 443
Goals 193
Assists 92
Trophies 12
Individual awards 14
International career:
Appereances 90
Goals 34
Assists 13
Trophies 3
World Cup:
Appereances 21
Goals 8
Assists 8
Top Scorer 0
MVP 1
Won 1
Copa America:
Appereances 12
Goals 4
Assists 0
Top Scorer 0
MVP 0
Won 1
Now Messi 🙈
Messi all-time stats:
Appereances 987
Goals 779
Assists 339
Trophies 41
Individual awards 76
International career:
Appereances 164
Goals 90
Assists 49
Trophies 4
World Cup:
Appereances 19
Goals 6
Assists 5
Top Scorer 0
MVP 1
Won 0
Copa America:
Appereances 34
Goals 13
Assists 17
Top Scorer 1
MVP 2
Won 1
But but Messi hasn't won a world cup... 🥲
Where are the 4 international trophies coming from?
@@muleyamwiinga3988 I took everything to a count from both players. Both won Copa America and U-20 World Cup. In addition Messi won the olympics and this year he basically won the international version of the super cup "La finallissima". I would still say Maradona edges it with his World Cup title but those are still only team achievements.
@@Kenjames10 Finallisima is friendly, it doesn't count. Confederation cup is the Super Cup of international football.. Don't skew the data...
Additionally, U20 comps is fine but Maradona only played in 1 of those and I don't ever remember Maradona playing for Argentina in the Olympics... Messi played in multiple youth championships and only succeeded once...
Yep, without a WC, Messi is not in the GOAT conversation. The WC is the biggest trophy in football. If he's the GOAT he has to carry a very talented Argentina side to the title like Maradona did. Winning with a stacked Barcelona proves nothing. Maradona winning with Napoli is more impressive
*Messi is the Greatest Player Ever in the History of Football🐐⚽*
No, Pele is sorry
Maradona by a distance, nobody has done what he did.
@@rogerstephenroth8073 if you were born in the 2000s
@@muleyamwiinga3988 Messi isn't even a world champion with Argentina. Neither him nor Cristiano Ronaldo don't even deserve to be ranked top 5.
Without a World Cup, he is not in the conversation. if he's that good he should be able to win with Argentina. Like Maradona put his team on his back and carried them to victory in 86.
I just think Shaka is one those fans/players that is stuck in a mindset of what the past players did. There are lllllloootts of things Messi has accomplished that the other haven't, add that to his mere footballing talent and stats if you want, and for how long he's been doing it.
There are a lot of crappy players that have won a World Cup because they were part of the winning team. Winning a World Cup is not the be all, end all factor to determine the best player of all time. Shaka is very narrow minded. How many UCLs did Maradona win?
Pablo is right. Messi has proven that he’s better than Maradonna. It’s very difficult to compare generations because the sport & medicine changes, etc., but-in as much as we can compare-Messi is the greatest ever.
In your opinion.
@@xelasoul1263 it's facts messi is far superior to all of them
@@beverleydobson5648 all of them but not🤴🏾pele.
@@xelasoul1263 even your overrated Pele who score charity goals
Maradona is the best ever, if at the time they payed more attention on health as they do today he would've been even better than he's been
Messi has won 2 trebles. Messi has won golden ball at the WC and a Copa America. Yes his international record isn't at the others levels, but his club career is the best by far. No one even comes close. This is also considering Messi is playing at the highest level and most difficult era
True
His golden ball was bs keep it real
Most difficult era nah not even close.
@@watching789 strongly disagree here. Today's era, and future eras, will necessarily be harder because the competition is just better. Everyone today is a supreme athlete, top notch facilities and tactical training. I don't really buy that kicking in the 80s-90s offsets the insane increase in speed, power, and tactical understanding of today.
And the golden ball I don't really get why it was bs. Maybe it could've gone to Robben, but it didn't. I think Messi was good that tournament, but even if you take that award away, he has many many other things on his CV that put him clear of everyone else
Bro he has 90 goals on international level,what are u talking about😂
Weird that no one mentions Iniesta, Xavi and Busquets? They have won just as many La Liga titles, Champions League, Copa Del Rey.. and on top of that the World Cup and Euros. They have been just as consistent but being midfielders and DM they mainly provide assists and defense instead of goals.
Especially Iniesta 1 WC ,2 Euros ,4 CLs ,10 la ligas , 39 overall trophies nd POTT in 2012 Euros ...MVP of WC final , CL final , Euros Final , CWC final , USC final nd also Cup finals
@@SonuSharma-zl9bg Exactly
Nothing weird about it, they weren't just that great individually. To claim otherwise is recency bias. Go and look up Arrigo Sacchi's Milan - that's the best club football team ever assembled.
World Cup is a nation's game, not an individual game, at the very end it is not a player that wins, it is the whole squad and more of the nation, however, off and in-field individual contributions still counts. L. Messi is still the greatest decorated player in the history of football, he plays literally all wings, defends skillfully better than many top defenders, scores like no one else, moves the ball like he is 100% invisible with the speed of light, has the highest number of assists in football history, encourages and inspire all around him in the cosmos of football, there is nothing like Messi in football.
Maradona is truly a legend and one of the greatest of all time, and he did many great things in football and equally inspired a lot of people in the world of football.
Messi is simply the alpha king of football. Football has witnessed many kings like Pele, Maradona, Cristiano Ronaldo etc.., sadly none of these all time great/legends will put on the crown of the alpha king except L. Messi....................
If there are wonders and magic in football then there is only one true magician behind it which is the great L. Messi..
© Dibua Michael Sweeney...
By Shaka's logic it is virtually impossible to become the best player of all time if you aren't born in an international powerhouse country.
Maradona's Argentina wasn't a powerhouse in 1986 though.
@@legendsummit2256 Valdano, Burruchaga, Passarella, Olarticoechea, Giusti, Ruggeri, Batista... Sorry but that was a very good team.
Pele is the real goat and all the other ones are pretenders
@@legendsummit2256 bilardo's Argentina is the best national Argentina team till date. Winning 1 wc and reaching back to back finals
@@legendsummit2256 they is that time they were good team
Pele above Maradona and Messi? Can Shaka give me what he's smoking please
Agreed
agreed with him.
Pelé is above any player in history.
Pelé and Messi ahead of Maradona for sure. Ronaldo and Maradona just behind. Anyone that knows football knows
@@No-wc6hw 🤣🤣 Maradona is miles clear
Shaka is correct in regards to the all time real goat. But overall I would even question if Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo deserve to be ranked that high in front of other world champions and record holders in the game. Pele deserves that 1 position and rightfully so.
Messi has the 2nd most accolades only behind Dani Alves. He is nearly the grand champion of the sport and that’s without a WC.
@@Chillymosquito Messi isn't a world champion I would not even put him and Cristiano Ronaldo in top 5. There has been a lot of players much better then both of them
Yes Messi is better because of the longevity and the consistency to maintain that quality of performances till this retiring age in football. It’s what edges it along with the records he broke and still breaks today!
Messi is the best ✨✨
Water is wet
@@SonuSharma-xx2hj 🤨
@@SonuSharma-xx2hj Dios is God 😇
Yes...but not the goat
Maradona was simply amazing and a big personality, what he done with Napoli a small team winning multiple titles with them, getting his leg kicked in every game, terrible pitches and no one still could stop him. He was just to good and with Argentina he won the world cup with some unplayable performances. He set the levels but I have to say Messi has taken it to another level with the consistency and longevity, they have lot of similarities in their style of play. 2 goats.
Napoli was not a small team back then but okay 😂🤣
I think they were a small team before considering Napoli didn't even win the serie A title before Maradona come and he won it twice for them with uefa cup and 2 coppa titles.
Maradona the goat at sniffing cocaine
@@waseem7766 I think Messi had the same effect at Barcelona. They won 60 trophies before him but 93 titles after him. Obviously both of them are/were incredible. But it's Messi with a distance at this point.
@@davdav8152 educate yourself before talking down on a legend 😂😂 Napoli now is bigger than what Napoli was back then prior to Maradona joining. Idiot.
The greatest of all time . In terms of numbers , in terms of trophies, IN TERMS OF SKILLS , in terms of footballing iq. Messi , its an easy answer idk why people bring up these debates. Maradona was a good dribbler too a good player too but the overall package messi brings - best dribbler the world has ever seen , best passer , most assists , most goals and highest goal ratio , he is not a poacher
he runs the game connects the mid field and leads the attack . etc and etc
Man that 2014 final was just heart breaking...
no,A LOT OF JOY!
May the love towards messi wins this time. This Argentina side has everything. A good team, a proper brotherhood, a fairytale, messi last wc, a good defense.
I think Messi can play in the 2026 World Cup and possibly if he wins this one win his second in 2026
As big of a Messi Fan I am I understand Shakas point, he’s saying to be the Greatest not the Best you have to win the World Cup, which in my opinion is different
So if Higuain hadn't fluffed his shot, then Messi would be the best?
@@HT-xt4cn let’s not pretend Messi didn’t win a one on one chance. Let’s not pretend he didn’t choke 2 copa america finals missing a penalty. Yes that’s what that means. Messi and Ronaldo both have zero knockout goals in World Cup . That’s actually insane stat to have and to be called the greatest to do it. Maradona has the best argument
@@HT-xt4cn No because he would still need another 2 World Cups and 1284 goals to tie with Pele
@@markvasil3307 When did Messi missed 2 penalties in Copa America Finals?
@@kumarayush9950 he missed one penalty and disappeared the other final. He and Ronaldo , have zero knockout World Cup goals . Like if they really are the greatest . They don’t have an excuse for that . Let’s be real .
The most important aspect in winning a world cup is Luck followed by talent. I cant get over the fact that Higuain missed that goal in the final, cant believe De Maria got injured before the final. Its not that Germany was better in 2014 WC or in the final its just that Argentina missed their chances and Gotze, no one knows where he is now, scored a goal.
True
You forget that Messi also missed a clear chance in the 2nd half… but that’s not surprising bcuz it doesn’t fit your agenda, y’all need to find someone to blame other than Messi… Messi could’ve made himself the goat had he scored his 1 on 1 in the 2nd half but instead he shot wide left.
Germany were a far better team than argentina.
@@antiwokehuman talent wise yes
@@yviewond3r476 they played better too.
Messi is the greatest player ever to lace a pair of boots. He is the best in so many categories over his career. You only have to look as his stats and individual honours. International honours are the least important criteria. Basing international trophies as the benchmark is like assessing whether someone is a good person based on how the rest of their family behaves.
do u know pele as slightily better stats than messi ? don't ignore that just because of an diferent era
@@joaopedrogoncalves3861 I probably do have a recency bias. Lemme just say messi is the best player I have ever seen and has the numbers to back it up.
Ronaldo9 had a short career. Pele played in a era where they didn’t even have formations. Maradona won the World Cup due to a handball. Cristiano and Messi did what they did for 3 years for 15 years plus. There is no comparisons. The greatest aren’t the greatest because of the World Cup. Football is much bigger than one trophy. It’s also what you do off the field and Messi and Ronaldo are the example of that.
Well said I agree with this. Although I do think Maradona is the most naturally gifted player ever, I think at his PRIME PRIME he would have just topped messi if they faced each other. Messi still the 🐐
What are you saying, formations did exist. You clearly never watched how he played, if he was born 20 years ago he would still be one of the best ever if not the best.
They count for Ronaldo the WC in 94 which he did play 0 second 🤣
Do not put Messi and CR7 in the same category. Messi deserve to be top 2. CR7 should be outside top 5.
@@frafrafrafrafra Let's not talk about "ifs" here, if Higuain scored that sitter, Messi would've been the GOAT at age 27. Is that the kind on argument you want to get into.
That's not even a discussion. Messi is the GOAT. Period!!!
Infact to be honest, winning worldcup is not the perfect bar to judge the best of a person. For me what Messi has achieved is more than proof we need to consider this boy the GOAT🤩
Messi is the best ever imo.
That is almost every rational person’s opinion
@@hossamgebeily no its not. Messi has achieved a lot more but Maradona was a better footballer
The difference with Messi and Maradona is his consistency and longevity, Brazil Ronaldo has never won the champions league
Messi carried that Argentina team in 2014 aswell. The World Cup you need a team to win and he carried that team. He needed just a final push from his team but didn’t have it. Hopefully he has it now
Very emotional segment. I enjoyed it.
Why are people taking Shaka so seriously, who is he or what has he done to create the criteria for who should be the Goat
Agreed
At least he was a starting goalkeeper for Newcastle United, and professional footballer for years in one of the toughest football leagues in the world. You?
Shaka made the criteria for himself, and it's a valid one. It's not for everyone, of course, and he knew it's not.
He played in the prem. Who tf r u???
The only nobody here is you
@@CaraVerde YOU MEAN THE SAME LEAGUE HALAAND IS ABUSING ??
@Shaka always being bias ... Lionel Andres La Pulga The Necromancer Messi doesn't need the world cup to be the 🐐. Believe it or not he'll forever remain the greatest of all time.
Pablo wraps it up perfectly! Its very hard to win the WC. You definitely need luck and the team has to be on the best form specifically in those weeks the WC takes place. There are too many variables.
Yes but if we discussing the greatest of the greats, u have to transcend those variables. I think Messi has had great talents around him, probably better talents than Maradona had and he’s come up short.
@@YoogiNation yes i agree with you, Messi is average, Maradona had mediocre players around him and still managed to win, i also think Messi's teammates are even better than him they created his legacy and helped reach those finals but he bottled them.
@MangoSmoothie carry Portugal to what?
I can never understand how none of the other pundits point out the clear flaw in Shakas logic
I won't talk about their abilities or trophies because everyone talks about it here.
I will however talk about consistency of performing on the highest level, carrying teams on your back, getting less injuries and persevering yourself and finally having that effect on a team to come out victorious in teams that were mediocre and have no business winning.
Yes both Barca and Argentina went through mediocre periods were Messi had to crry them to victory alone.
And this all were done in and out for 15 years with insane consistency.
That is not football, its simply passion of the game.
Such shameless from shaka a World Cup doesn’t define the greatest player he is the greatest player of all time to ever grace this game and he will prove that goof ball Shaka wrong in December when he will hold the cup in Qatar
Agreed
@@beverleydobson5648 great minds think a like 🫡
@jhdg just speaking the facts
@jhdg ? So ur telling me U agree with Shaka that a World Cup defines u as the greatest?
@jhdg everyone at the end of the day has their own beliefs we all think differently
Come on Shaka lmao. Messi and Ronaldo are top 2. Ability + longevity in my opinion
It's crazy how he can just disregard what they've done and achieved over 15+ years because of no world cup, which is obviously determined by a team performing, not an individual. Lol I know we all have a degree of bias towards our favourite player, but putting R9 in particular ahead of both Messi and CR takes that to another level. As incredible as he was, his peak lasted nowhere near as long.
Personally, I feel Messi is the greatest. The only player in terms of talent that I think is on a similar level to him was Maradona. However, I agree CR has to be in the top two, given as you said that longevity he has shown. Like R9, Maradona didn't compare in that respect.
Longevity has nothing to do with skill 😂😂😂
Longevity is because of the new technology and methods to keeping them fit like performance enhancing drugs or better technology for longer lasting human peak performance 😂 like lebron has longevity but he’s not the greatest ever lol there’s a difference don’t get it mistaken
Being consistent and so magical for 15 years is not joke it's mad ness messing is defenetely ahead of maradona
You can’t compare the way football is been played now to when them pele was playing now football is more technical and harder which makes it more difficult for Ronaldo or Messi too win a world cup they are lot of teams with great players individually
How can you be winning two too three World Cup with just one country that shows how easy it was then to win this trophies compared to now
How can you win 3 champions league in a row, it must so easy comparing to last few years.
I understand what Shaka is saying, people here in Brazil used to say the same thing, but that's something that just doesn't make sense, you cannot judge an individual based on the results of the collective, this is football not tennis.
because the relevant argument for Pele to be the GOAT is THe world cup argument! so Brasil stick to that
Anyone who understands the beauty of this game knows that Messi is greatest player of all time
I think winning the WC is an unfair requirement for an individual player to be considered as the GOAT. Sometimes even having the best team is no guarantee. I remember Brazil 🇧🇷 in 1982 & 1986 had these amazing teams, some of the best in history and neither one won a WC.
Messi is the greatest of all time period regardless of what happens in this years World Cup period. He is goals+assists+dribbling + playmaking and yes longevity
Strongly disagree, Pele was much more talented then Messi and much more successful
@@rogerstephenroth8073 Garrincha was more talented than Pele and Garrincha doesn't come close to Messi.
@@joKer7507 No Garrincha was actually a lot better then Messi. Nobody is near what Pele was as a player. Pele wins the real goat award by a landslide. All the others are pretenders
Meanwhile, on plenty of other subjects, Shaka reminds people that soccer is a team sport. To penalize Messi because the team wasn't quite good enough flies in the face of that.
but tbh messi had a way better team 2014, 2010 and 2006 than maradona 86. and still maradona carried his team on his shoulders, when it mattered most he was always there, for messi its rather the opposite
Maradona literally took a Napoli side that was terrible on his back and won them 2 scudetti,uefa cup and coppa Italia. I don't think Messi would is capable to do the same.
@@anewhopedawn6676 Yeah, when it mattered most, he stuck his hand in the air to redirect a ball.
Maradona did use a hand tho, that takes off points as a soccer player/fan...
@@frafrafrafrafra bc in today's game it's not possible back then game was much slower pace and tempo of the game was slow the modern game is 10x faster, more tactical, and technical it's impossible for a player to win an entire tournament on his own and let's not forget argentina won the world in the first place because Maradona cheated.
The fact that ESPN is always comparing Messi to other players is evidence enough that he is the greatest of all time. He doesn't need to win a world cup, it's not his fault that he hasn't won it, he doesn't play alone and it's not just a decision he can make and say, "ok team let's win the world cup"
They compare Ronaldo to others too this means he is also the greatest of all times
Sorry you need 3 World Cups and 1284 goals. Messi is no Pele and not good enough to be the real goat.
@@rogerstephenroth8073 so, what you mean is that, every player who has won a world cup is greatest of all times , which means all the players from every team that has won the world cup can be named greatest of all times.
Plus I'm not the type of person who gets along with every statistic thrown at me, the Pele statics are somehow not logical because there is no way they can consider him to be the only player who has won the world cup 3 times. What about those who were playing alongside him🤔
did they die or what for them not to be considered as having won the world cup 3 times🤔
Why don't they also consider those who were playing alongside Pele to be winners of the 3 world cups and to be among the greatest of all times??🤔🤔
The above question has remained unanswered until now
You can't compare Messi to Pele , Messi is Phenomenal, the universe has never produced a fine player like LM
@@donboscostudiostv3104 Sorry not everyone can be the goat. Pele has 3 World Cups and 1284 goals which is why he is the real goat. Messi is nowhere near the player Pele was so sorry he isn't the goat. Not everyone can be the goat, and that is what separates the best from the best. World Cup titles do matter.
@@rogerstephenroth8073sorry you have failed answer a simple question
( Those who were playing alongside Pele had also won 3 world cups, does that make them the greatest of all times?)
We are going against 15 years of Consistency to a month old WC campaign 💀
As much as I love Maradona, I will have to say that Messi is better considering the level of todays defenders. I respect and appreciate that Maradona redefined football in a way never previous seen.
Respect from a real fan 👏🙌
Alot of delusional fools would never say what you said but deep down they all know that messi is the best
Facts defensive organization is levels above the past . I don't mean to take anything away from great players by saying it
what u mean? todays defenders literally cant even touch you because they would cause a freekick. bac in maradonas days people were allowed to do everything to stop an attacker. also it was a era where defensive players were really fcking strong
@@anewhopedawn6676 Today's defenders are stronger than defenders of the past. Better diets, better training regiments, Better defensive organisation...teams today are way more professional than they were then. Today's defenders are stronger.
Why do people choose Brazil Ronaldo and forget about Ronaldinho,someone who won a World Cup,champions league and 2 Ballon d’Or And our the titles but Brazil Ronaldo only World Cup and some titles
They always underrate dinho. It’s funny
There is more to football than just flicks and tricks if not players like saint maximin, taraabt, robinho, hazard, zaha, neymar, okocha would be in Goat debates
@@theanfieldsultan Ronaldinho was a transcendent player. You must not understand how good he was and simply think it's all highlights.
@@vaudou_ exactly dhino was also a play maker, could dribble amazing, his passes were amazing may I go on?? He was amazing
@@vaudou_ he was a great entertainer, but it doesn't get you into this debates, your productivity and outputs do. If not neymar, hazard, okocha, saint maximin, taraabt, robinho should also have a shout in here
Maradona carried Argentina in '86 and Napoli to win 2 serie A titles against the best AC Milan side of all time. Messi is a fantastic player but he played for the best Barcelona side with Xavi and Iniesta commanding the midfield. Both are very special players but Diego was something else
Messi might be the greatest as a stat player but skill for skill and ability of leadership is something Messi lacks , he wouldn’t be able to carry a low team to the top players like maradona will ! There’s a huge gap of difference there , I’ll take a great leader over a great player
Shaka is obviously entitled to his opinion; but I personally feel it comes off as very deluded, given what Messi has done over the course of his career. Not only do Maradona and R9's best seasons fall short of Messi's, but more importantly their primes also lasted nowhere near as long. Maradona comes close to Messi in terms of ability, yet Messi's longevity sets him apart. I think Shaka simply uses the world cup argument in the hope Messi won't win one. That way he can then keep using the world cup argument to keep claiming that R9 is better because he has won it. It's just not logical to use a team trophy to judge an entire career. Teams win trophies, not one player. You can point to a number of moments where both Maradona and R9 relied on their teammates making the difference at those world cup tournaments.
His ranking is EXCLUSIVELY based on the NUMBER of the WC trophy - that's the thing really unfair towards Messi. One has to COMPLETELY IGNORE the League and CL, national team g/a number, longevity, etc. (list could keep going) to end up with such ranking result.
I can imagine the reaction of people like Shaka if Messi wins the WC, be like "oh but the WC is not as important as it was before when Pele won it".😂 Right Shaka? Just like when he won the Copa America "But Messi need to win a title with Argentina to be the GOAT" Then Messi wins it and suddenly it doesn't matter anymore 😂😂😂😂
LMFAOOOO that’s exactly what people will try to do 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
no is almost garanteed, if argentina win the world cup, messi is the GOAT, even shaka will change it's opinion, cmon messi nedds this, he as all the numbers and all the trophies in all competetions, except in the most important one, so it's fair to say he is not best yet.
@@joaopedrogoncalves3861 The best player is the one who show the best game, and that's Messi, the WC it's just a collective title.
He doesnt need to win a WC to be the best…after he retires i dont think we can still witness like him…messi is fotball🐐
If I had to choose one of them ,
1) for a knockout tournament, Maradona ( prime).
2) for an entire season, Messi
For knockout messi
For season injured messi
People here commenting, probably never seen Maradona play... lol...
okay uncle🤗
How many matches did u see?? His best trait was dribbling nd even in that Messi clears him
for me Maradona was in the same level of Messi now, but how long Maradona kept it in that level?
Messi played like Maradona...have stats like pele....he is the no 1 for me.....watching Messi everyday is a treat to eyes
Messi and CR7 anybody else can come after these guys .These two change the game of football with their different style of football and their goal breaking records and titles...You would never get this kind of greatness in a hurry appreciate them.
Not true. Johan Cruyff is far above them, he changed the way people saw football forever.
Not having Johan Cruyff in this top 5 is absolutely disrespectful to the world of football. He changed the game and doesn't get recognition. Won 3 UCL in a row with Ajax, won 3 Ballon D'Or, brought Barcelona back from the ashes when he joined them. Won 1 European Cup and unfortunately lost the WC final against Germany but he's among the best of the best football players
I don’t think we can ever have a #1. These are all different types of players with different strengths. But Messi and Cristiano have to be at the top at #1. Their longevity is unmatched. They’ve been the best for 20 years
anyone below ever saw Maradona play?
As an individual player I would say Messi is the GOAT. His longevity and insane goal scoring,creating goals and great team player. Even if he doesn’t win the World Cup it’s ok as football is a team game.
Wrong you have to win 3 World Cups and 1284 goals. Messi isn't the goat and never was
@@rogerstephenroth8073 No, that's your criteria, not a fact.
@@Gfresh844 Hey if Messi is not good enough to win World Cups then he is not the goat it is simple as that. On top of that Pele has 1284 goals and was world champion at age 17. Pele throne as 1 all time is secured. Sorry Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo and Maradona and everyone else, but Pele is 1 unquestionably.
Maradona played when pitches and Grass were very bad. Messi played his career at the smooth ground era with 7 out of 11 teammates at Barcelona being WC winners.
The debate for the greatest will always remain a debate...
Shaka u must be joking your hate for Messi doesn’t change how great he is lol who are you anyway this guy is a clown 😂😂😂
Just slight difference ..no big deal, just happy to see all these GREATS 🔥🔥🔥
Diego Armando Maradona GOAT.What Maradona achieved with Napoli was was nothing short of miraculous.Back when the World Cup meant everything, he dragged Argentina to the title almost single-handedly.He is the greatest there ever was. Obviously. It shouldn’t even be a question.
It really depends on perspective. Maradona is the best if you judge him for the 🏆🏆🏆🏆 he won for/with Napoli (an underdog), beside winning the wc.
Have pele, r9, messi or cr7 done that playing for an underdog?
Brazil, without pele, might still be able to win the wc.
But if you look at some key personal stats (goals & assists), cr7 (5 ballon d'or) and messi (7 ballon d'or) are currently the best!!
Messi for longotivity but Diego in his peak he didn’t have a long consistency but when it’s actual best Diego all day!
Maradona could never had 91 goals in a year
@@leonthethird7494 thank you never
@@leonthethird7494 He does not need to. Scoring against hapless La Liga sides doesn't make you the GOAT.
@@leonthethird7494 Messi world class players around him! Like Xavi and Inesta!
He is living that moment....
That is a very low bar for GOAT status, the REAL GOAT has to win more then 3 World Cups and score 1284 goals or they are not good enough to qualify.
I lose faith in humanity a little every day, people that can't make a proper decision because they're overcome by their emotions, nostalgia and a bias, I sometimes wonder what it would be like if they were leaders whose choices affected the whole world, we would be doomed! Lionel Messi is by far the greatest player to ever play this game, in its most advanced form. Pele played against schoolteachers and carpenters, Maradona reached a peak that was heightened by Cocaine, Ronaldo's peak exists in a fantasy world where he stays injury free. Cristiano Ronaldo and Messi achieved things these other gentlemen never did and stayed at that level throughout their career. they did it against world class professionals and coaches without any substance abuse and no significant injury, their greatness is not imagined it actually happened time and time again.
Are you 15 years old? Maradona's greatness wasn't imagined. It actually happened for a period of 15 years
MESSI GOAT
EN COPAS AMERICA Y MUNDIALES
MESSI P.J GOLES
BRASIL 3 0
URUGU 3 0
CHILE 5 1
COLOM 5 0
ALEMA 3 0
FRANCI 1 0
BELGIC 1 0
SUIZA 1 0
HOLAN 2 0
TOTAL= 24 1
I agree with putting CR7 behind the other top 3. Messi is #1. Maradona is 2, Pele 3 CR7 is 4
Why is it that you 15 year olds discredit Pelé’s career and claim he played against carpenters.??
@@No-wc6hw but he did