Garrett G25-550 VS GTX3071R Gen 2 SR20DET Turbo Test
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- čas přidán 9. 10. 2018
- We test Garrett's latest G25-550 turbo vs Garrett's GTX3071R Gen 2 turbo to see which turbo performs the best with the least amount of lag and delivers the highest horsepower on OnpointDyno's Dynapack Dyno's.
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Now THESE are the kind of comparisons I want to see - Gen 2 GTXes versus the new G25 series. I'd also love to see it compared to either a Borg Warner EFR6758 or especially the G25-660 versus the EFR7163.
This!
7163 and the 660 are 2 completely different hp ranges at the crank.
Efr7163 is 550.
660 is literally in the name. 660.
The efr7163 would dunk on the 660 for response.
If you want an even comparison youd need to compare a 7670 to the 660 as the 7670 is closer to the power range of the 7670
@@Yurblers not really, the 660 rating is bullshit, especialy fot the g25 but maybe the g30-660 could hit it. The fair comperason would be efr6758 to g25-660 or efr7163 to g30-770 for they have the same internal sizes.
@@XFOX1996 the ratings arent "bullshit" they are based off crank hp not wheel and on ethanol. they can and do hit that hp as ive seen on many different vehicles.
and the turbos you are listing are far different hp range so again, not a fair comparison
@@Yurblers you are wrong. Bw underrates there turbos and garrett overrates theres. Go look up the internal dimentions insted if you want to compare them
This is a fully built SR20DET including forged pistons and upgraded rods, stock head with high lift cams (272 we suspect) which is why the turbo's spool a bit later but make more top end power at lower boost levels.
would it not be more economical to go with an LS swap (tune it to run on e85, set up some nice heads/cams/intake, aluminum block keep its light, parts are abundant, etc)?
Should be running way more boost
Where can we find specs on Sasha's car? Im curious what exhaust he is running
Which begs the question... Adam Lz SR20 made 450 hp 450 trq with the same turbo and cams and a stock intake (no NOS)... ( I know this is a jerk thing to say but seriously 450 hp 450 torque is alot more like a V8... Than 350 HP, that's like the LEAST you would expect a V8 to make.) Do like your sticker says and SEND IT!
cams are too big
That nitrous purge is giving me flashbacks to the early 00s! Always nice to see Sasha on the channel. I always learn something listening to him talk about horsepower and how to make it.
What was the A/R on the turbine housing for this? on gtx and G-25?
Love watching these videos with Sasha, he's explains things in an easy-to-understand way, and straight to the point.
This is a great idea for an episode and the dynamometer Data was great as well, however (and not to sound negative) I’m a little bit concerning about the cylinder pressures being achieved at such low engine speeds? I can appreciate that this might be asking too much based on the level of technical content you put out but some additional data would have given more value to your illustration.
From what I am seeing you’re trying to achieve the results of what a bigger displacement engine would produce but with a much smaller engine? If that was the goal then sharing this would go a long way towards the audience trying to have the best viewing experience. Top marks for doing a comparison video using one of the G series Turbochargers, the are many people looking on with cash in hand but are hesitant or at least apprehensive.
Cheers 🍻
Very cool, blessing this car still with the company.
Thank you! That was pretty cool. Love technical vids
What is the A/R on the turbine housing for the GTX3071R Gen 2?
Hello Speed Academy.... watching your video and reading some coments below a question comes to my mind, I am now restoring a 4 pot 8v old FIAT engine. Which turbo would you advise to have the less lag or faster spooling possible the G25 or some EFR ?
Edit: from this video I see that obviously the G25, my question is which of the AR should I use... the smaller one seems a bit small to me compared to older turbo ( AR.049)
Greetz
Great video.....similar power with my setup. 18.5psi made 392whp on a gt2871r .86
I've been hoping someone would do a decent review of the G25-550 on a 4 cylinder...
Thanks guys.
Watch Adam Lz dyno on his s13 sr. Over 500whp on E85
Search wrx G25 550
@@caldakid any idea which AR turbine are they using??
@@FirstLast-tx3yj if only we new. G25 is .72 Hard to compare otherwise:/
@@JOutterbridge cz i want to make 700whp on my LS but i want super responsive i might go with g25 but a bigger turbine housing cz 6.0 so 3.0 L for each turbo
So awesome to see new life breathed into Zombie. Great vid!
I'm getting cams for my SR as well. I am going for quick off the line power. My SR is built as well. It's also going into my 91" Miata.
It's a very nice turbo even for daily / road use. The response is on spot, and it brings torque much faster than a gen2
Can you use nitrous air pressure aimed at the compressor wheel to help it spool faster in lower rpm?
Do you have a very light flywheel or does the rpm drop rapidly bcs it’s on a hub dyno? Bcs there isn’t the momentum.
Over 200ft-lb by 3200 rpm and with the gtx3071 it didn't get to over 200ft-lb until 4250 rpm.
Curious what size AR the exhaust side was? Looking to get one for my rb
Does this car have a diverter valve at all? I hear what sounds like one opening, but then there definitely seems to be compressor surge also after the throttle is closed. Is this a concern or are you relying on the ball bearings to take the abuse and not worry about it?
Nice build!
Still some of the BEST content on CZcams. I love you guys! #MuchHomo
Im liking the GTX2871for my SR.
I'd love to see a comparions between a 2871r vs the g25-550
I think I found my turbo for my Audi 2.0t stroker build. Excellent comparison! 👌🏻
I'm pretty sure that Adam LZ just put one of those G25s in his S13.
Nice test, cheers for sharing! I assume this is the .72 hotside?
Looks like the EFR series probably still have the edge, a 7163 on a stock stroke SR20 spools similar to this but flows closer to the 660
@@treysnyder2676 the .92 is a T3, the only vband housing for the G25 is the .72.
Guys a legend
When it comes to low down spool you can't go past an EFR turbo,we personally went from a Garrett T66 b/b .68 single entry housing and made 9psi at 5500rpm to an EFR9180 with a 1.05 split and seen 24psi at 5500rpm,was night and day,car made 650hp to the tyres through an auto and a single cam 1.8ltr @8.76@155mph at 42psi at 2480lbs...
can't believe it's been 4 years since G series came out
Ive waited since the g25-550 was released to see some real world data!!!
I'm hoping someone can answer this. What exhaust manifold is the car using in this video for the g25-550? I'm planning on picking up the g25-550 for my S15 but haven't found a manifold for it yet. Hopefully someone can give some input.
Would be interesting to see an EFR for comparison
Also!!!! How low of an rpm is it safe to be in before you go wot?
Such a clean 240sx!!
What a/r was the 3071r you guys was using. Thanks
Sweet S14! (My fav S chassis!) Sasha is like an ultimate lexicon of tuner knowledge, all the skills! Makes me think I need to use my college education in autotech, but unless I win the lotto to open a shop, I guess I'll just settle for watching Speed Academy. Lol. ✌😎 🚗💨💨💨
Were you able to get the numbers higher on the g25
Hi all, how would this turbo perform on a 3.0L? Does the curve just shift by 2/3? So the psi made at 3000 on a 2.0L will be made at 2000 on a 3.0L?
Whats good lads ? lads im wondering whats best option a g25 550 or gt2871r for a stock sr20det engine ?
TFW turbo tech has advanced to G series and im still on ancient T series(journal) 😭
Who cares they all work great!
I run a GTX3076R on my EJ207 WRX and it is a great turbo for a 2.0L. 450whp on E85 and perfect for daily driving. Spools at 5k rpm. My next turbo will be the G25 for sure though.
what a/r is the 3076r?
@@alec1202 .60
Spools at 5k? Isn’t that late? How can we get an earlier spool from 3k to 7.5k rpm?
What size rear housing is the g25 ?
Is that a stock intake manifold?
What exhaust housing size is the G25 550?? .72 or .92?
very good video! thanks. i wonder how it performs vs my gtx gen2 2860 that i use for 340whp now. i have full spool at around 4100rpm
what engine size?
@@dennisrobinson8008built sr20det. funny i come back to this nowas i just broke my gtx
I might have missed it, but is there anything done to the head as far as valves, springs, and cams? I'm sure that with aftermarket cams and larger valves along with some good port and polish work would make the G25 respond even sooner.
I see that it has HKS 272s, and I would imagine that you have to run some dual valve springs and aftermarket retainers, but what about an NA head swap (I heard they flow better), and some good port and polish work?
Since I don't know a lot about nos can someone explain to me why you need to purge the line? Is it not a closed system to where you shouldn't have to worry about junk getting in the line?
"The purpose of a nitrous purge is to ensure that the correct amount of nitrous oxide is delivered the moment the system is activated as nitrous and fuel jets are sized to produce correct air / fuel ratios, and as liquid nitrous is denser than gaseous nitrous, any nitrous vapor in the lines will cause the car to "bog" "- Google
lol I was looking for this exact video.
Wow pretty surprised that you said 800rpm earlier with just the turbo alone in difference. Thats crazy!! Also what ever happened to antilag. Thats not a thing anymore? I know its bad for valves etc but...
i think that with such a small turbo, and relatively low amount of air, that ic and especially piping diameter is introducing a lot of lag
What A/R was used on the G25-550 0.72 or 0.92
.72 Hotside
I was under the impression that the G25 550 would spool almost like the stock T28 but with more power potential, without nitrous it saw full spool at around 3800 rpms, my gt2871 journal bearing gets that.
Do you have it installed on an SR20? I cant figure out the difference between a 2871, 2971, and 3071.. Any advice?
@@sonoradrift 2871 uses the NS111 turbine. 2971 uses a cropped 3071R turbine. 3071 has the full size 55/60 turbine. The 2871 is a terrible turbo, the compressor wheel much too large for the turbine. The 2971 is no better with its cropped turbine. In a 28 size frame the GTX2860R gen2 is king IMO. If stepping up to 30 size frame, 3067R or 3071R with full size turbine is good too.
What color code for that car?
Amazing!
Instead of changing cams, people will change turbos to mod the power/torque curve.
yep
Add a four port so you can make the gate close earlier
Which size exhaust a/r did you guys get on the 25-550?
.72 AR
@@speedacademy thank you
turbine housing?
why dont u swap to v8?
If u gotta use nitrous 2 compensate. U need 2 throw it away and go back till the tunning. It sounds ok. But you can tell when a motor ain't built/ tuned right. This motor sounds like one of them
Best way to get good response on a 4 cylinder is a twin scroll setup.
Sasha is a brilliant man.
I’d love to see you guys do a power test between a car with and without the silencer in the muffler. Everywhere claims very little power change but my car gets noticeably sluggish over 2500 rpm.
They had a video with the 240sx doing that test.
Lam Nguyen awesome, took a little digging to find it. Knew it had to be killing power.
@@brianhilligoss of course it's killing power. The silencer adds a crap load of back pressure in the exhaust as it bottle necks.
i have a GT3582r waiting to go on my 2.4l engine and i heard rumors that I'll be waiting on boost forever. i lowered the compression to 8.8:1 years ago, but now I'm thinking i should have left it at the oem 9.5:1, maybe I'll raise it up in the future
8.8 isnt too bad , some cars come stock with 9.0, you can run more boost safely :)
@@bongskag yea i know, but i want as much power and torque in both in and out of boost. when i see 4 banners with 10:1 and higher compression making insane power on pump gas, daily driven on the street, i think man i should have just kept the 9.5:1
PANTYEATR1 are you running stock cams?
@@griffdastick no, I'm running crane cams #14 turbo cams. i still have the cam card in the garage somewhere. I'd have to look for it. i think they dialed out the overlap and maybe added a small amount of lift
@speed academy
I had narrowed down my turbo choices to either the GTX2867R Gen2, or GTX3071R Gen2, for my KA24DET S13 drift/daily, but seeing this video has me reconsidering. My goal, also, is to have the fastest spool and response time possible, with a target of 350hp. I basically want as close to zero turbo lag as possible.
I will be running an ARC Sidemount Intercooler, 91 Octane pump gas, 740cc DW Injectors, Megasquirt2 standalone, NTK/AFR500v2 WB, Tial BOV, Tomei lower-mount cast T2 manifold, and 3 inch exhaust. It is a 2.4L Dual Cam engine with forged internals and stock cams.
Will the G25-550 .72a/r, as seen in this video, be too restrictive or reach efficiency too quickly in the powerband, since I have a 2.4L and not the 2.0L as used in this video? I don't want to cause unnecessary intake temps in pursuit of fast spool times. I need to decide which turbo I am going to use, as it is the last big purchase needed in order to complete this build.
Thank you in advance for any advice you can send my way!
According to Garrett's website, the only G25 with a T2 entry is a 0.49 a/r. Way too small for a 2.4L engine. My only option for a 0.72 G25 is to buy a V-Band manifold. Could I get similar spool from a GTX3071R with the 0.64a/r? Or would that be too restrictive in the top-end with too much heat? Or a GTX2867 with 0.64 or 0.86? I really want to stick with my Tomei T2 manifold.
And also, Garrett does not make a 0.72a/r GTX3071R Gen 2. What was the a/r for the GTX turbo in this video?
Thanks again.
the thing is that you’ll choke a gtx28 or g25 turbine wheels with a 2.4, for me, your safest bet is a gtx3071r, or go directly to a twinscroll setup
@@sonoradrift also the piping shown in this car is surely and most likely introducing a lot of lag as the turbo has to fill all that area even before making positive pressure
i mean i get better spool in a 2.0 with a holset hx35 (40 years old technology) than this super modern g25
@@cfiorucci Holsets are great turbos for price... And usually greater than 3x expensive turbos.
He may need to bleed some of the exhaust off before the turbo once it hits max boost to keep it from being a restriction, this is normally done automatically by the wastegate if it is large enough.
I've got a similar engine slightly smaller tomie 260 sticks with a garret TR30VGT with a billet 76mm comp wheel ive been able to make about 23 psi at about 2500 rpm but it rattles like all hell so i have dialed it back a bit .. its flex fuel setup i wil have to see what it can do with e85
Isn't the TR30VGT a WRC turbo or Garret Racing turbo ? VGT too ? dam how do you control that thing?
@@RadionAMD I thinks it's off an LMP deisil I control it with an RC car servo on my ECU I map it exhuast manifold pressure Vs RPM
@@incolink what !!? 😮. How did you even get that turbo. Wow ! You said "it" rattles as in the car or the turbo :) ? Twin G25 with mild secondary air injection antilag vs VGTs. Most VGTs the general public can purchase are for diesel. The turbine wheel might not be strong enough to endure gasoline engine temperature.
@@RadionAMD when I said rattle I meant it knocks the high back pressure and just 98 petrol but it may have had a bad injector the turbine was allegedly titanium I don't believe that but it's not ultra light I think I will put GT35 internals in it next with a 2.2 build
Can't get over the laughably huge low-end advantage of the G25-550 over the GTX3071R V2 on this particular engine. Below 4600 rpm, the G25-550 has +150 lb-ft in a lot of areas. For pure top end though, the G25's (660 included) seem to choke, as expected. But more options are good.
That 150 ft lbs is a big deal
It matches the gtx3071 on the top end while besting it by 150 ft-lb in lower rpms.
My b5 stg2 1.8t turbo is so small it runs out of steam by 4k rpm. Shit I know but feels good on the street. Seen k04xl hybrid turbo from xs-power that I want to try out.
I have that. You wanna buy it for $250? No shaft play and its like 7000 miles old. Didnt snap my rods but surely feels like over 300awhp
Response without twin scroll is a bad route IMO. Other than that a comparisoon without knowing the turbine housings is kinda lacking. Id really like it if housings were mentioned. Was like .63 for the GTX and .72 for the G25 ?
Valid point. Lot's of people will see this and just draw a conclusion without knowing what or why things changed. There is no doubt the new Garret turbo is a great bit of kit, but you need to do a like for like comparison to really draw any meaningful conclusion from it. I mean was the car retuned to the same AFRs in the same spots as before, or was the turbo just thrown on with the old tune? I could make the new turbo perform worse than the old turbo, with the right (wrong) adjustments. Some people will watch this video and just take the results as gospel, without knowing all the facts.
@@DodgyBrothersEngineering Agreed - that info is critical. I'm about to pull the trigger to go from a Gen 1 GTX3071R with a .63 A/R to a G25-550 on a 2.3L Volvo 850R since the engine is already out. Knowing the A/R of the two turbos here would certainly make my decision easier.
We never really got my car running correctly - mainly due to oil leaking into cyl 5 at a high rate and killing coils constantly. Even before the coils would fail, it added enough resistance to cause breakup during boost. Compression and leakdown tests checked out okay so we're guessing it was some shoddy machine shop work leading to rings not sealing correctly. Bit the bullet and went for another rebuild. Prior to that though, the best numbers we got were from an aborted run - 382whp/451tq. Since then I've added water/meth injection and we're swapping heads to a dual VVT head. Between the VVT head and turbo, i'm really excited to see what kind of powerband this thing will produce. i.imgur.com/9MOcaZcl.jpg
@@goobernoodles the link didn't work. I was running a Gen 1 GTX3076R with extremely good boost response it is all in the pipe work and intercooler. czcams.com/video/E-7cM_diB9s/video.html&
@@DodgyBrothersEngineering Nice video. I'm getting a tubular exhaust manifold to pair with a G25-550: instagram.com/p/BwNPxuKHCHy/?
This link should work I think. Try copying and pasting the link if it's not working: i.imgur.com/9MOcaZc.jpg
Here's some more info on the build (at least the way the car was before): forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3292714&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=154#post478992847
(i think you can see that without logging in)
What A/R are you running on both turbos?
0.72 on the G25, and speed academy said 0.72 for the 3071 also, but Garrett doesnt make that a/r for the GTX3071 gen 2. Needs correction because I want to know also.
@@sonoradrift probably was running the 3071 .82. the .63 spools much faster.
Gtx3071r 400hp at 17psi, big.torque at 4500rpm
FIRST! Why not Borgwarner EFR turbos?
While I love EFR turbos, the new G series is entirely different from all previous generations, so it spools more like an EFR would(guessing as I haven't seen a direct comparison yet).
Garrett is still on a somewhat outdated turbine wheel, and that is where the secret sauce is. The EFR turbine wheel is still lighter than the new inconel based Garrett wheel.
This is actually a much more valid and informative comparison all things considered. A more direct comparison would be a GTX gen 2 2867 or something along those lines. However, this comparison will do :)
yes the efr turbos are real nice i have a 6758 on my 2,3liter 4 cylinder and made around 21psi @3000rpm =)
@@RalliartRsX the new g series turbo does not use the old inconel turbine wheel. Its made of MAR-M alloy which is comparable to the gamma ti alloy used in the efr turbines. Similarly sized turbos from the two would spool identical.
@PrimeGarage The only difference between Mar-M (247) and the old inconel wheel is the Ni content. The M247 has a higher Ni content (60% vs 52% if my memory serves me correctly. Cr content is also different between the two) than the prior inconel wheel. The only real benefit is it retains it's composition at higher temps. The Mar M247 wheel came from the old WRC and ALMS turbo Garrett TR30R. So apart from a higher heat capability, the wheel is mostly unchanged as it is mostly a material composition change. Also, the MarM 247 material turbine wheel as it stands weighs a fair amount more than the equivalent sized gamma ti wheel.
So as I said not comparable to the gamma ti wheel in any sense. And the blanket statement of similarly sized turbos from two different manufacturers will spool the same is fairly inaccurate. There are way too many variables (for instance, blade efficiency and comp/turbine matching to name a few).
Thanks
What rear housing is the the 3071r running, seems way to laggy,
.72 its not the housing its the cams.
Garrett doesn't make a 0.72 hot side for the GTX3071 Gen2.
@@sonoradrift they do for the g25-550
Soooo, you guys ever going to challenge De Boss Garage to a race with their Audi?
We've already chatted to them about doing a track review of their Audi! Go bug them to bring it to the track for us! :)
Will do!
Numbers seemed low on the gtx3071r.
400whp with a GTX3071R
for that HP ... you should have used a GTX2863 or 67... IMO
unijabnx2000 Yeah i would of thought a smaller GTX would of been a better option.
2867 with e85 280 rear wheel kw
My 2ZZ powered Lotus with a GTX2863R runs 373whp on e85 with 16lbs boost, plenty enough for 1850lbs
Of course you can make 400whp with GTX2867 (not 63)... but for a drift/race application, where you're always hard on the gas, its better to go one size up so theres not as much stress on the engine and turbo... to get the same power. You'll get to 400whp with a smaller GTX2867... but your charge temperatures will be significantly higher... and the turbo will be working harder... when compared to a 3071r.
@@Drifty325i Thats huge power for 1850lbs. Do you have any videos of your car?
2 Guys 1 Snail
Why not just slap a .63ar housing on the 3071 and call it a day!?
It's incorrect test, this different frame turbos! Need test GTX2867 0.86A/R vs G25-550 0.72. They have same peak power, and same exhaust flow chart
This is pretty much why people do LS swaps. No screwing around wasting time/money trying to get the setup the way you want, LS swap with just heads/cam/valve springs and you've got 400whp+ linear power.
Sometimes the challenge is the fun
Who wants to live life boring
I’ve driven everything from LS based cars to 400hp KA-T’s to JZ cars and I can honestly say the KA is probably the most fun driving experience. The LS and jz cars are both fun and very easy and consistent, but it just isn’t the same as driving a turbo 4cyl. Nothing is more fun IMO
There are other countries in the world other than Australia and America tho, we're LS's are unabundant and needlessly expensive. Canada isn't 1 of them tho
What fuel do you use?
Pump 91 or 93 based off those numbers
"Race fuel" was mentioned in the video, as the fuel being used.
All for a more responsive setup.... but If it was me the gt30 with more boost, then get your gear ratios setup for clearly what is a lot of low speed drifting you are doing. Also that seemed like a very late gt30 spool. Not sure what dyno load or if you are soft on the timing due to nitrous. Should be all in by 4500 on an SR.
Big cams
Maybe low compression?
I mean some head work work probably have been easier but ohkay
yo if you cant get good response out of a 3071R you're doing something wrong. that intercooler seems pretty big and he has a decent amount of piping. if he optimized that set up he would probably get better transient response (better than buying a whole new turbo for thousands)
I shortened tf outta my intercooler piping, deleted anything outta the manifold, and use a pretty small intercooler and i have a gt28 sized turbo on my 1.8t and if im on the throttle im in boost no matter what rpm im at. Even 1k rpm ill have like 3 psi at wot in a high gear. I get 22psi at like 3k.
Look up killerchiller intercooler set ups. Uses your ac to cool your boost with no huge ass front mount
7k rpm only!? Seems low.....gtx30 lift rpm range to 8k and that's u always above 4k boost drop zone.
Nice!! Interesting!! So smart!!… :-)
What small turbo can make 300ft pounds at 2000 rpm on a 2jz na- t?😆 efr 6258 maybe ??? 330whp goal
Stock turbos should do that easily
I got a car with an app
I know what I'm getting now
Should have just kept the GT3076 and fixed the pipe work. You can still get very good response with a big turbo if you sort out the plumbing. This is an example of what not to do.
EFR is still king
The thing killing response would be that giant fuckoff intercooler lol
Am I the only one hearing the engine knocking like crazy around 9min32s to 9min35s and from 10min10s to 10min13s ? The engine will not last long with such high knock.
I know this SR is fully built but it still sounds like a stock SR hmmm? AdamLz has the same turbo setup(new garret turbo model)I believe and his car is fully built but sounds like a Rotary lol
There's way too many variables to compare the two
NissanHyoryuLyfe a lot of things change sound, I believe the big part of Adams different tone is his exhaust manifold. Plus who knows how the exhaust set up under this S14 it may be very conservative.
A GTX2860gen1 wouldn't be far off....
Am I the only one that hears detonation at 4:32 and 4:33?
Sounds like a misfire to me
Ehhh, I'm gonna keep my GTX3071r 🤣
Thanks though!! 😘
Charles Shamseldin #me too 🤘
I like my gt3071r, works just fine
Poor little 4 cyl, I'm spooling a 67mm turbo to full boost by 3000rpm.
EFR?
@@dujuanjohnson5025 Yeah of course. 9174
need not faster spool, need more rev limit banging