St. Johns County Schools/Violate Public Records Law
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- čas přidán 30. 05. 2015
- St. Johns County School District www.stjohns.k12.fl.us
School District Superintendent, Joseph G. Joyner's Contact Info,
904-547-7502
joseph.joyner@stjohns.k12.fl.us
Wards Creek Elementary www-wce.stjohns.k12.fl.us
Bartram Trail High School www-bths.stjohns.k12.fl.us/adm...
An Overview of Florida's public record law,
www.floridabar.org/DIVCOM/PI/...
Below is my email to the St. Johns County School Superintendent
Superintendent Joyner,
On Thursday May 28th I visited Wards Creek Elementary School, and Bartram Trail High School to submit an In - person public records request. My request at both locations was to inspect the fire safety documents related to the FAAP. These are documents that are located on site at the schools and it was my request to inspect and photograph the original documents. At both schools I was instructed that St. Johns County School Board policy required me to make the request through the main offices downtown before I would be allowed to inspect and photograph the records located on site at the schools. I was also informed by BTHS Principal Dawn Sapp that I was required to identify myself despite the fact that I was making a public records request. Principal Sapp also called law enforcement on me which resulted in me being followed by a St.Johns County Sheriff's Deputy for approximately 10 minutes as I was driving home.
It is my understanding of Florida's public records law that I have a right to inspect and photograph non exempt public records at the location where the records are stored, in their original format. It is unlawful for a custodian of records to create hurdles not authorized by the Florida Legislature. It is also my understanding that the records custodian cannot require ID as a condition of access.
Could you please clarify the official public records policy of St.Johns County Schools.
WHO CAN REQUEST PUBLIC RECORDS?
Florida State Law requires that all public records (unless exempt) be open for personal inspection by anyone [Ch. 119.01(1), F.S.]. Florida State Law requires that all public records (unless exempt) be open for personal inspection by anyone [Ch. 119.01(1), F.S.]. The Public Records Act requires no showing of purpose or "special interest" as a condition of access to public records. Unless authorized by law, an agency may not ask the requestor to produce identification as a condition to providing public records.
Nothing in Chapter 119, Florida Statutes, requires that a requesting party make a demand for public records in person or in writing.
Section 119.07(1)(a), Florida Statutes, provides that "[e]very person who has custody of a public record shall permit the record to be inspected and copied by any person desiring to do so, at any reasonable time, under reasonable conditions, and under supervision by the custodian of public records or the custodian's designee."
The public records act does not contain a specific time limit ( such as 24 hours or ten days ) for compliance with public records request. The Florida Supreme Court has stated that the only delay in producing records permitted under chapter 119, Florida Statues, is the reasonable time allowed the custodian to retrieve the record and delete those portions of the record the custodian asserts are exempt.
Sincerely,
Jeff Gray
Stay cool, Be polite, Assert Your Rights, and Always Film The Police.
I am not an attorney. Please seek legal advice from a licensed attorney. The views expressed in the comments section are not necessarily those of Jeff Gray. I do not support comments that libel the persons appearing in my videos. I do not support racists comments or comments that call for acts of violence or otherwise unlawful activity. Comments on this website are the sole responsibility of their writers and the writer will take full responsibility, liability, and blame for any libel or litigation that results from something written in or as a direct result of something written in a comment.
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I hate how teachers and school staff try to act as if they can treat everyone that walks through the front doors as if they are they're teenage students. They actually believe they are an authority figure to everyone on school grounds just the way she tried to ID Jeff in the public lobby.
kyle1m My wife and I were talking about the same thing....Her sister teaches 3rd grade for like 35 years and treats everyone like a 3rd grader.....drives me crazy......her husband is a drunk and I know why.....now my cousins taught kindergarten for 40 years.....what a screwed up woman..treats everyone like a kindergartener......including her husband too.
Your common sense level is extremely low. Do you not understand that these staff members have a duty to protect kids from strangers like this brick head Jeff? The best way was to go to the central office for his request. With all these issues happening at schools throughout our Schools in the United States. I would not have done such a display of a self centered video.
odinsonthorhammer1 Schools can't just ignore the State Constitution and mandates. They are obligated by law to hand over records at the place where they are kept...They want to send everyone to central for the records? Then ever school needs to send the records to Central....Period. So stop acting like a 3rd grader... ;(
@@odinsonthorhammer1 do you understand law ! that's what I thought you stupid fucking dummy
@@odinsonthorhammer1 - OH GROW THE HELL UP!
It a BIG BAD WORLD OUT THERE, They are Not going to be coddled FOREVER 👿
The sooner They LEARN TO TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES Just like We Did when We were Kids the better OFF THEY WILL BE!
You cannot I.D. The whole WORLD!
Get a LIFE!!🙄
We All survived!
That is what LIFE IS ABOUT, LIVING and Life experience!!!
Everyone has Rights, and NOBODY HAS TO GIVE YOU THEIR I.D.!!! Unless They are under ARREST! Get that through Your IGNORANT 💀 SKULL! You are NOBODY THAT ANYONE HAS TO ANDWER TO, EVER!!!
The Police State must collect data on all Citizens who dare to exercise their 'constitutional' rights.
Dawn teaches her students her own interpretation of the constitution.
"There's a citizen requesting public records, release the hounds!"
Principle Ms. Dawn Sapp, the only people you have power over on the school campus are your students that are too young and naive to see through your false sense of authority.
I had not even considered these type of public records especially about the school buses. This is awesome can you imagine how many people just like me that just basically are not aware of this constitutional information? We just stopped at the few key buzzwords and that's it which is sad but that's the truth Please continue to shine a light on all of these issues so that sooner rather than later the largest part of our population will understand more clearly the importance of what you're doing is for the coming Generations the past can't be changed but the future certainly can BE.
Thank you so much for all the hard work and the risks that you take everyday.
Jeff Gray you are my idol! I commend you and the work you do! I only wish there were a lot more like you! Thank you for helping me and others to keep our freedoms if anything just a little longer.
That principle needs to get some CEU pertaining to laws. And she is an educator. This scars me for the future of our country.
These days, the law of the land is apparently paranoia. Good work, Jeff.
This really makes me upset. Not the school for violating the sunshine law but the cop who chose to follow Jeff undoubtedly to call in his plate, another clear violation of Florida law.
I'm also wondering why someone would ask for another person's ID anyway? She's not a police officer. She has no business asking for anyone's ID. What is she going to do with the identity? For all we know she was going to use it for identity theft purposes. Some idiot got a hold of my information and charged over $300 on a cell phone. This woman could have the same intention for all we know.
***** that's the shit leos do
That's just life in north Florida. You get followed by cops all the time there.
Tom Stone Well...their job is very hectic in this regard so i am sure you cut them some slack.
leos are used to operating outside the law.
And yea, people these days from all walks of life ask for ID, it's the "in" thing.
public schools in Florida are private property therefore they have the right to demand you identify yourself.
...whereupon simply asking for public records in a legal and completely above board way, while in total compliance with the laws and regulations of the land gets you deflected, stalked, investigated, and menaced for no good reason. Amen, hallelujah.
Imagine that....the principal wasnt in!!!
I attempt to call a lot of the folks who fail Jeff's audits and it is amazing how many of them are never at work. Cops, principals, sheriffs, ect........these people get WAY to much time off.
Sometimes I think us private sector folks are the only ones who go to work every day......
You know as well as I do they are hiding in their office out the back
They have the “no accountability “ virus.
Yes we are only ones working g slaves ro the system
It's sad that those people are so stupid. And what about ID theft ?
And the cops are spying and checking your plates... another crime !
I'm from Canada and this situation worries me a lot because we're next .
Good work Jeff
Another great video. Thank you for working so hard for us!
Dude You should print on paper the law and then hand them a copy of the law. That way they would knowingly violate it
it is a public building in a public area during normal business hours, they call it private. public services that call what they are doing private
Could I be so bold as to recommend a subtle modification to your tactics? Respectfully and politely ask, in this case, the principal "Would you permit me to correctly educate you on this issue? Because, at this moment, *you* are the one actually breaking the law." I would also ask whether their "mandatory ID" schtick is actual law or internal policy.
Those of you who are hating on this guy who is simply testing the intelligence of the educators on the laws and wanting to see how much resistance he will get upon asking for public records requests are ridiculous.
I was hoping, when she said he would have to go through someone from another building, that he would say, "Ok, contact that person to come down and hand me that binder, but it would be best if it doesn't take to long."
The documents are openly available in the public lobby. Why not just pick them up and photograph them?
Love your work. Have you's ever thought about bringing and showing. ADMINS the laws that allow you to see them?
What the HELL? This is what is meant by "thicker than molasses." To get to view any kind of public school papers, records, photos and the like, just be warned...it will feel like you are swimming in molasses. And the ideal hope is that after asking, waiting patiently and waiting some more, you'll give up and go elsewhere. It's friggin' shameful.
Lawsuit time. Let us know how much they settle with you for, if you can.
What kind of dash cam do you have? I had one awhile back but the sun decided to ruin it. I see you have a paper plate over yours - is that what that is for?
Jeff, this is your thing, but are they saying that the designated records custodian is at a different location?
The only thing that public entities understand is getting slapped silly by lawsuits.
Interesting video. Two thoughts:
1) they weren't asking identification for gaining the records. It was for being on school property. You could however argue you don't need to identify yourself on public property.
2) the custodian of the records, the person who would delete exempt portions, was not available at that location.
Although ridiculous in this case, they did follow the statue by asking you to make a proper request to have e process started and give the custodian time to retrieve the item and exempt any material.
Principal is a educrat who does not like it when people do not follow her rules no matter how unlawful the rules are.
Can the school sue for traspassing? If so then it's not a public space
FAAP= fire alarm annunciator panel. It is a secondary display for the fire alarm system.
I wish that I found your site,/videos years ago.
I love how they're so uninformed of the law.
Next time you should kindly print out the law and hand it to them. Educate them!!!
I was just wondering the same thing. Why not bring a certified copy of the law along?
I love that at 5:45 she states "you can just walk in." I believe that's exactly what he did, he just walked in through the open door. In our school system all outer doors are locked at exactly the start of the first bell. After that you have to show ID to gain any kind of entrance.
Well the law stats you don't have to show ID to look at public records if anyone go to the school while there people are their in the office it's open to the public
I think you missed my point. You are free to be there if it's open to the public. It clearly appears from this video that the lobby of the school is open to the public. The restrictions appear to be for anyone trying to go beyond the lobby.
She was so sure about herself ,you could see the smug look on her face.
I just called the Superintendent's office and the lady on the phone said Jeff WAS allowed to photograph the documents. Hmmmm...either way, they are standing by their choice of having one central custodian of records and feel they are in full compliance with FL statutes 119.
There not in full compliance the law states your allowed to get the public records from where public records are being stored he was like 3 Ft from the records he wants there breaking the law not providing the documents right there
Do you ever sue to get their attention? If you have did it change anything?
so jeff. whats stopping me from doing this in all 50 states. at $15,000. i wouldnt need a job.
I would suggest having a copy of said laws, and waiting for law enforcement to arrive. you still would probably not get what you want, but it would let the staff know what the law is, and eliminate the "tailgaters".
Well damn he's beating me to the punch in this direction. I wanted to start hitting up the schools with 1st amendment tests but this is even better. Might have to come back to this from a different angle in the future.
I think everyone should do this it will keep the schools inline with following safety laws and it ses to me they have something to hide if they don't want to show you the records I kind of feel sorry for them a little going get so many calls Monday morning
Yea.....like stop the stupid unreasonable searching
+Fred Brown the school has every right to do everything they have it is considered private property therefore they are allowed to refuse to show you these things.
KipperTheWolf No, they aren't considered private property unless it is a private school. Schools are handled in a special way just like courthouses and other government buildings which don't have full public access.
Leave my school alone
Imagine that, the principal is lying.
Does anyone ever contact these people using the information in Jeff's videos?
Acronym FAAP stands for fire alarm annunciator panel.
Whether you agree with Jeff or not the simple fact is the law needs to be followed. Based on this there are a lot of people in these schools that need an education.
No law was broken, public schools are private property therefore they can divert you in order to access public records. This guy was the uneducated one in this situation.
The definition of "public" is not private.
+Docbrew the word public in public school has nothing to do with the type of property, they're called a public school because the school is supported by public funds. The school may be publicly funded but it is privately owned by the county.
Wouldn't just showing this state law to the people denying the request help? It would immensely help when showing a law enforcement officer. Part of the problem is law enforcement doesn't require their officers to know ALL the laws. So a little education with it in paper might go a long way.
ricknineg 09 I understand where you're coming from but if you think on the spot seminars would be effective you are naive. Besides what do you think these videos are doing?
I'm definitely a fan of yours but was wondering if the law was brought up, if things would go differently. Maybe yes, maybe no. I have never done one of these so I can't speak from experience. But thanks for the comment!
I think he doesn't wanna have to explain why or what he's doing, when he doesn't explain I think are the best parts
ricknineg 09 I'm pretty sure Jeff speaks from experience. He used to lecture public officials on the law but I don't think it helped.
Any updates on this?
Jeff Gray, I know yous shouldn't have to, but why don't yous bring a copy of that law (Ch.119.01 (1) F.S) with yous?
And these people teach our children
FAAP = Fire Alarm Annunciator Panel, varying slightly from FACP = Fire Alarm Control Panel.
They must publicly display the Fire Dpt safety check certificates surely?
FAAP: Fire Alarm Auxiliary Panel
No one is required to ID self for any reason!!! Geeze people are ignorant.
I do believe the school principal is wrong for not seeing and/or providing docs to the "requester". BUT the part about providing ID is school policy. Its conflicting, but if the guy went to the actual public records building then him not providing ID could be better argued. However, going into an actual school without providing ID is a no no, and, having a young daughter in school myself, I am very happy this is the case. I have serious problems with public schooling these days, but providing proper ID for anyone on school grounds is definitely NOT one of them.
Have you thought of asking them if they intend on 'obstructing' your public records request. Or something to frame the situation better.
FRESH-WRECKAGE | New Hard Rock, Skate, Punk & Surf I have caught on that Jeff's audits are to see if the agency or custodian of the record will simply comply with the request in compliance with the law. This captures their ignorance or misapplication of the law in its entirety and documents just how far they will got to assert their incorrect conclusions, or even calling the police when no crime was committed other than by the custodian of the records not providing the records according to the law. Jeff hinting or schooling them during the process defies the information gathering aspect of the process during his audit. Correction may come afterward.
I guess Principals don't need an education on the bill of rights and laws when they become one.
Why don't you ever tell them that pursuant to FL law you are not required to ID yourself and that they have to provide public records in their possession upon request vs. just letting them stonewall you illegally?
Wow....I know Dawn Sapp. She was a 6th grade teacher when I was in Sebastian Middle School around 23 yrs ago.
TheProfessor Fate Of course she was!
The school asking for visitors ID is reasonable. It has nothing to do with public records.
Oh they act like gods, their words are divine. they can help themselves they have private police forces that follow no laws
Omg you know how many calls this school going get now there going have such a headache and there asscuse going be we didn't know
You should have handed Mrs. Smarty Pants a copy of the Florida law.....
joecoool100 That would defy the purpose of the audit, which is to document their behavior in its entirety from start to finish and see if it is compliance with the law and to what extent or with which measures they will use to deny access or punish the requester for having done so. She had no reservation to call the police on Jeff even though Jeff never did anything illegal, nor was asked to leave. That is pure intimidation for someone who is simply exercising their civil rights under the law. Important to see how a simple request naturally develops for the sake of the purity of the audit. To school them effectively and perhaps convincingly would cut the audit short. It is not really Jeff's responsibility to educate them, they are to know and comply. Educating them would perhaps happen later, after they show their full hand and extent of their fuck ups.
Educators in need of an education. ironic
Normally that would be marked FACP for Fire Alarm Control Panel, who knows what FAAP stands for.
This is so obisiously going against a supreme Court law
very good work . so did the cop pull you over lol
Every building should have a folder labeled "FAAP" just out in the open like that. I'd be willing to have a law to enforce it.
CZcams updated their app, so now I can zoom in on your rear camera display and see exactly what you're talking about!
why is this being shown to me as a new video?
It would enhance the quality of the audit if HYO were to enter the school with a print out of the Florida statutes pertaining to this and ask responders at these schools, actually pointing out the REAL rules,,, on camera, and memorialize the revelation...No doubt it would probably make for some interesting video...
A wild guess, Fire Alarm Annunciation Panel.
well you got any where
Jeff, great job! Stick a fork in us, it`s done ! Be ready for what`s to come .
These schools are the fuckin worse.
Brad V I agree........It's because of all the "kid worshiping" going on.
People hear the word children, or kids, and then they zone out into security / terrorist mentality mode.
Dean Corrington They zone into being fucking retards.
lmfao, who the fucks asks for this random shit? i bet they were caught off guard. "hey that file that no one knows about, i want to look at it and take pictures!" the first guy was amusing, seemed like a cool guy.
on a side note i like your videos the best, because you always keep your composure and act dignified and respectful.
I have a grandchild in a wonderful private school. The cost $1020.- month. I believe the taxpayers are paying more per child in public schools and we know that there is much room for improvement.
7:00 Geoff you should pull off to the edge of the road if you can then if he starts pull7ng in behind you without lights on then drive on again do this as many times as you can before his lights come on then if he does pull you up tell him your car felt like it was about to stop
I hope this is just part 1
The principal is right. We don't want people not identifying themselves at our schools.
I say that school system needs educated. They looking to lose funding or what. And they are educators.
Why not turn the tables around and call 911 to have LEOs enforce the law for you? That would teach them at the spot.
isnt it illegal to run a tag-number without a suspicion of a crime ?
+Jeenius IAMa ABSOLUTELY
So now who do you take this proof to? Who will hold the accountable for breaking the law?
IF YOU ARE BEING FOLLOWED YOU SHOULD STOP BEFORE YOU ARE PULLED OVER AND THEN IT IS NOT A LEGAL STOP SO THEY THEN CANNOT DEMAND I.D.
I'm sure these administrators aren't fully aware of the law and are probably following protocol that's been handed to them by their central office. I expect it will change with this kind of awareness video.
It makes you wonder what rubbish they're teaching the kids in there.
If you ever watched the tv show
Bevis & Butthead and wondered
WHERE ARE THEY NOW!!
One is wearing a dress and had to go back to school the other is driving a squad car and should have stayed in school.
Like my commrnt plz. Lol
Photography is not a crime. 😊
So is this a "LAND of FREE"?
Fire alarm annunciation panel
Educators are educators. They teach government class, obviously they are pretty slack on that subject.
Jeff next time you are followed like that don't go straight home. Go to the mall, and do a little shopping, or take in a nice long movie. then see if the cop is still watching your car, and document it if he is.
Sorry...but I would pull over and ask the sheriff what he's doing
you are not required by law to identify you self if you are making a public records request.
makes no sens why she would call the police.
you are required by law to identify yourself when going onto school property when school is in session
Please tell me that none of these clowns still have their jobs.
not a acronym , they are initials.
chris hamilton Are you referring to FAAP ? Sounds like an acronym since it seems to form a word ?
one time you said u are not 85 yrs old lady ..you could get those plates
you and me get petty tickets like parking
SO why don't petty tickets apply to government
The LAW is the LAW and if the government goes against it own law you have anarchy
school should get public record ticket/ fine
ARE THEY TRULY THIS ignorant OR IS IT A RUSE ?? WHO TF DO THEY THINK THEY ARE ??
Your problems started when you did not identify yourself, you go into a school and and refuse to identify your self you don't think that's a little suspicious ? Hats off to the principal for calling the cops hats of to the cop that did his job. I'n not American but understand your 1st Amendment rights but when it comes to schools you cannot compromise safety.
Actually your wrong he was there on official business to make a public recored request if your read the law he was in the right and watch the video again and read the sunshine law that he put up on the video
What ever makes you happy Captain Lou
cornell3206 I'm sure you don't live in some backwater banana republic, just a cozy little Third World hell hole.
Follow laws
Not self opinions