Working Memory and ADHD: Dr. Barkley & an ADHD Coach Agree
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- čas přidán 2. 08. 2015
- www.digcoaching.com. Jeff Copper is an ADHD coach and host of Attention Talk Video which is part of the Attention Talk Network, www.attentiontalknetwork.com.
Those with attention deficit disorder know what they are supposed to do. The challenge is in executing. In this video ADHD coach Jeff Copper interviews world renowned ADHD expert Dr. Russell Barkley (www.russellbarkley.org) on the impact of working memory challenges for those with ADHD and a discussion of what works.
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Attention Talk Video is the leading video resource providing educational information and support for those with or impacted by Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD) or Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD). Educational information is intended to help our targeted audience made up of adults and children to manage their symptoms to enable them to function at work, in school, at home, or in relationships. If you are frustrated, overwhelmed, or stuck or if you procrastinate, are not organized, or struggle with time management, consider subscribing to Attention Talk Video at www.attentiontalkvideo.com.
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"out of sight, out of mind" is ABSOLUTELY the situation I have. Matter o' fact, it's too often "out of line of sight, out of mind."
Wade Patton "out of line of sight, out of mind"... I like that.
I can't really grasp what Dr. Russell is saying because I keep getting distracted when Dr. Jeff said yep yep.. lol .. btw this is so informative
Sorry...
Yup.
I agree. I can't even get thru the whole lecture
OMG!!! I was just going to make a comment about that 😂😂😂
All! I'm very sorry for all the yeps. It wasn't intentional. Really wish we could edit them out. In the end the content is good and it is VERY difficult to get Dr. Barkley's time so we leave the video up in hopes it helps those who can get past the yeps.
Yes the production is far from perfect... but the content is good.
I guess it varies from person to person. I was diagnosed at age 53. I employed those low tech means of offloading my working memory all my life with little success. There are just as many avenues for failure with low tech. Never could seem to have a working pen and a journal at the same time, whiteboards but no markers, sticky notes that get lost...too many working parts to lose with these things, not to mention they are not as easy to carry around as a smartphone. Apps to manage medications, apps for meditation and mindfulness exercises, alarms for everything, notes, files, photos, the Internet at my fingertips is invaluable for looking up ingredients in a recipe while I am at the market and so many other uses, calculator, calendar, staying connected with children and their schedules and school notifications...the list is endless. All on one device that fits into my pocket. My phone is an extension of myself. To say I rely heavily on this technology would be an understatement.
Oh and a voice recorder, camera and video for visual reminders.
+Cindy Livingston sounds like you found a solution that works for you! Booya!
Hi Cindy! Wondered how you’re doing today with all this?? Also curious what kind of planner/calendar you use??
Thank you for having Dr. Barkley in your channel. He is such a kind man.
you are very welcome.
thanks for watching.
Back part of my brain is huge, front part...peanut!
EXACTLY, I KNOW what and how to do. Just have enormous hitches and diversions scattering the dang process into no progress.
!!! and that is the challenge of those with ADHD.
Good god. The part where he says the thing about toggling the screens. This is a massive struggle for me. These videos are threat thank you so much. Even if I don’t find my personal solution yet I don’t feel alone. I feel validated with the challenges I encounter.
Often validation that you are struggling with something for good reason helps you let go and accept it. The key is to shift your mindset (how your mind is set up to think)... and do it differently... like for me a PRINT!!! Then i print more... then i print more!
Legend has it that he’s still yupping to this very day.
LOL. Actually i've gotten better.
This is so so true, I am a graduate student and obviously, I cannot buy all the textbooks that I have to refer to. I see that all my friends are pretty comfortable studying from lectures slides and PDF copies of textbooks but I just hate it when I have to study something from my laptop. I just cannot understand it when I have to read something out from the screen, scroll back to the previous page to refer back to some formula or something....it just does not work. I work better with printed stuff, when I can engage with the material and when it is tangible. I know most students prefer paper but they can still manage with PDF copies when they are required to. But I, on the other hand am completely dysfunctional without printed copies. I do have to spend a lot of money on printouts.
I'm go grateful for your post. My hope is others read it and go yea... me to. Knowing others makes such statements often gives other permission to do it their way (in you case print everything).
Thanks!
Thank you very much Jeff your channel has helped me a lot . Cheers
thrilled it is helping!
yes... this is a common thing
you can take a "picture" of a printed page and keep it in the back of your mind for future retrieval, but trying to mentally retain a TV image (that's what a PDF is), it just cannot be stored for future recall by the human brain. This a common thing for most humans not just persons with ADHD
We still use books to teach school kids for this reason, not computer screens
OK... i'm going to pause... and try not to loose it. Most academic institutions preach how with all learn differently... often the communicte in a way that you think they might be empathetic... then they make it as difficult as they can for you.
Coached a kid recently in HS. the teachers and counsilors encouraged the kid to take better notes and to annotate things. The student and agree and have proven this to be useful.... but in the class room almost all the learning texts is online and can't be annotated... further more there are no printers. The very thing they suggest can't be done!
It is convenient for society if you do it there way. Posting things online is convenient for the book publishers, the teachers, and the school not to pay the cost of printers, ink, and paper... so they bully the students into frustration.
Still keep the faith and do what works for you... it might take some extra work but advocate advocate advocate!
Thanks so much for this really good and helpful information on working memory. This is the area I struggle with the most.
Are You ADD? Wish there was a cure for poor working memory... while you can't cure it you can manage around it once you are aware of it and understand it. Thanks for your post.
This answers so many questions for my young adult son! Thank you!
Good. I'm glad it helped
Thank you for this informative and interesting video. Good job.
thank you and thanks for taking the time to comment.
Only thing I heard was "yup ...... yup ...... yup". My inattention is kicking in hard when Barkley's explaining 😅
sorry about that... this video was shot in my early years.
This was the best video I've seen this far! Major props to Dr. Barkley
Thanks... this is one of my favorites as well.
@@AttentionTalkVideo man, I wonder what it would cost to talk to this incredible man for an hour...lol
@@truckersagainsttrafficking7550 Interesting question. Dr. Barkley is in the sunset of his career spending lost of time with his grand kids. Is there a price? They say there is always a price. Not sure what he would charge...
Thank you, I wanted to cry hearing this; no one else understands!
we understand. Consider googling attention talk radio gps for an hour long interview i did with Dr Barkley on working memory.
AttentionTalkVideo Found it. Thanks
OMG! 8:25: Visual Cues example: My grocery shopping list starts as a pile of empty containers on a table by the front door. I didn't understand why I needed to do this all these years until I was diagnosed at age 52, just a month ago. I need a physical cue for everything. If it's really important I set it in front of the door or on the stairs. Somewhere where I'd have to trip over it as I leave the house. I carry little notepads in my car, my purse, everywhere! It also explains why I have always failed at digital schedules and reminders. I have always, always needed to write things down, even while in school (before the internet and computers), in order to remember it later. And when I do need to recall that information I can remember where it was physically written in my notes. Which page, where on the page, how big the writing was, what color of ink it was, which side-note it was (always had lots and lots of side-notes before we had sticky notes), etc. If I didn't write it down it was gone! This made me anxious because I always worried about what I was forgetting! With so many thoughts running around in my brain it is impossible to catch them all in order to even write them down. It is like I am set up for failure no matter what. Getting diagnosed was the biggest relief of my life! Knowledge is power! Thank you for so many light bulb moments in this video! I'm still learning. Long way to go but I feel hopeful. So hopeful! Thank you both!
note this... knowing what you know now... reflecting back on the past... do you see how intelligent you were and how you instinctively gravitated to things that work? You found what worked and accepted them? Bravo to you!
Notice Jeff keeps interrupting, saying "yep, yep." You can see he is not really listening but waiting to talk. So ADHD.
LOL!
Always !!! In all his interviews lol he even annoyed me when I have the same issue I never let anyone else speak aahhh so ADHD
OMG I'm watching right now and it's so distracting to me, trying to listen to Dr Barkley, LOL!
I have ADD with the SCT type. Working memory deficit seems extremely accurate. Its like your pc has not enough RAM to fulfill a task. Do you know sometimes a moment when you stare somewhere and don't think about anything, thats me 95% of the time and i cant do anything about it. It is like with Tourette syndrome, but your ticks are not like that but the tick is something sucking up your focus constantly. Just like with Tourette people who seem to have less ticks when they are making music or something. Its the same with me if i play music or a game, with something that i really like i can keep my focus really well. Sometimes the focus gets so good it becomes hyperfocus and then i can excel really well. Daily tasks, school, work, social (small) talk is so hard.
Wow! Thanks for articulating that. I've got someone whom i'm forwarding your comments to who will relate to them. In your description i can hear SCT and ADD. How do you manage yourself?
Thanks for your interest. Can say it is not easy managing myself, i rather delay stuff. Don't want to get in too much detail here in the comment section but i can say my family knows about it and helping me with it, also with work. Obviously i need to stand more on my own feet, but currently don't have the future planned out yet.
Focus on what works. Build on it.
witnessing your brain in its natural habitat (i.e. inside your skull) is no simple feat cause you can't see inside other people heads... you have noting to compare it to... your not clear on what to look for. Be patient as if you can crack the code you can design an environment to beat your brain at its own game.
Keep the faith!
I know it's late,but u described me.
Moved from a blue collar job to the medical field at 40 years of age. I struggle in a support role during long procedures but am amazing in my own exams. I find that autonomy is the key for me. When I'm activity doing, I'm fine, but when I'm waiting and anticipating the needs of someone else I struggle. Be careful telling ADHD folk that they can't do "intellectual" jobs and should just work with their hands, it's easy to take that the wrong way.
Thanks for posting. There are no absolutes in the ADHD world. Many can do intellectual jobs... and are quite good at them.
Okay ✅ I’ll let
Yeah
Yeah
Okay ✅ I’ll let
Yep
yep
sorry... the video was shot in our early years.
I find that if I don't use tech methods, I'll lose track of a lot. I may write down meetings, but unless it pops up on my screen at work via my calendar or on my phone via calendar alarm, writing it down won't matter. Different strokes, I suppose.
The yups got me laughing so much!
sorry about that... if you can tune me out the content is good.
Diagnosed at age 34, this video makes sense.
Hoping the video and others on our channel help you!
Is this for those on medication or off or both?
both
I have ADHD and I can't gather anything from this chat because I'm stuck on the"yup yup yup" that happens simultaneously while he's explaining things. 😔
sorry about that. Maybe read the transcription?
Wouldn't it start a negative spiral if people use a note book to support their working memory in terms of challenging the memory less?
working memory isn't the same thing as long term memory. The idea of externalizing thoughts for productivity can ignite a positive spiral.
So is there any medication or home remedy that can help working memory?
Simple question... complicated answer. Yes... but depends. For example, women who go through pre menapause estrogyn levels drop. this can impact attention and working memory. at times hormone replacement can help. Also, ADHD stimulants can help working memory simply because you can sustain focus longer than what you ordinary could.
@@AttentionTalkVideo so it's gonna get worse.. Oh 😩
@@l.j.7540 getting older isn't quite like the brochure said it would be.
@@AttentionTalkVideo right, that's definitely not .
You lost me at organized disk 😂😂
sorry about that!
Yup, yup, yup, yup, yup.
Sorry... this video was done in my more formative years. The content is good.
Thanks for tuning in.
is it possible to still be ADHD with a high working memory and a borderline processing speed?
+maxbyer great question. I really not the person to answer it. What came to mind in reading your question is an interview i did with Dr. Thomas Brown of Yale on Attention Talk Radio around ADHD and IQ. it seems neither have an impact on each other. ADHD does impact the execution of knowledge but not being smart. Here is a link to the interview if you are interested.
www.blogtalkradio.com/attentiontalkradio/2015/02/26/adhd-and-high-iqs-with-dr-thomas-e-brown
maxbyer: ADHD is a working memory and executive functions problem.
Regarding “Its not low IQ” I wonder what you make of the research that says that people with wm tend to have lower IQs?
Interesting... i've not seen any research on that. I'll have to rummage around.
@@AttentionTalkVideo You may find this of interest:'Dissociation of working memory impairments and attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder in the brain' by Mattfeld et al., 2016
According to this longitudinal study, wm does not need to be involved in ADHD. This seems to strike against what Barkley and others found about how symptoms like inattention involve a failure to inhibit responding to distractions which involves flaws in the WM (e.g. its Central Executive). .
@@Zak-gl4ig interesting. Personally i find success helping solve for wm problems to have a positive impact on self regulation and focus. That said, i'm just a coach. if something works i go with it.
thanks for the infro.
storing five words in working memory and sorting them alphabetically should be a fairly difficult task for most people? At least if the words are long.
from my experience i have found it depends... for some 8 to 10 is easy. for some 3 to 4 is a struggle.
Battery runs dead at the point they needed it. Yes.
Yup!
@@AttentionTalkVideo 😄
"Yep...yep" destroys your video. Thumbs down!
3:06 adhd folks better at blue collar jobs than intellectual ones
edit : more suitable for blue collar jobs
Not sure "better" is the right word. ADHD folks tend to favor blue collar jobs. Why? In general blue collar jobs are doing jobs and not as taxing on working memory which is and execuative function which is impaired in those with ADHD.
Thanks for watching my channel and posting.
@@AttentionTalkVideo you are doing a great service to the adhd community for past 10 yrs.
Plz dont stop posting these helpful videos. Your work has meaning to a lot of us
@@ioio7470 thank you so much for your words of encouragement. it is very motivating.
It is entirely unhelpful to suggest those with ADHD should choose careers in the arts or trades. This is total b.s. and assumes they need to work the way neurotypicals do.
Respectfully thanks for posting. To be clear there is no requirement that they need to be in the trades.
That said, ADHD is an execuative functioning impairment. Working memory is an EF and is impaired. In short, thinking inside of mind it more difficult than externalize thinking. The trades are more hands on... more external thinking.
Back to your comment. People with ADHD can do jobs other neurotypicls can do. That said, if they struggle and alternative would be the trades... why? Because it is more accomodating for the impairment.
Again, thanks for sharing your thoughts.
@@AttentionTalkVideo I do not agree that “thinking inside of mind [is] more difficult than external thinking”. This only applies to specific ways of thinking. I have ADHD and I have absolutely no difficultly thinking long and hard… unless I need to plan. If I try to plan something in my head, i.e. something that requires multiple steps, then YES, you are right to suggest my thinking is impaired. However, when working on problems and their solutions I have no difficulty whatsoever. Not just for math and physics, but generally anything that is related. I can reconstruct these relationships and their solutions in my head. In fact, these thoughts often carry on in the background and periodically resurface when I observe or learn something that is related. This is very often the source of my internal distractions because I’ll see or hear something that triggers one of these thoughts. If you value attention, then you will view such distractions as detrimental and call it a deficit or disorder.
The struggles we face with ADHD have more to do with HOW neurotypical people prefer to work, not the nature of the work that they do. We struggle because we’re expected to work in the same linear fashion. There are a number of ways I excel over my colleagues, one being that I very often find unexpected solutions to problems, or interject with relevant tangential information. This is a direct result of the background thinking that interrupts my attention.
I would encourage you to rethink the suggested response to struggles of those with ADHD. Rather than suggesting “if they struggle [an] alternative would be the trades”, think about the nature of the struggle and what is it about the trades (or your impression of the trades) that your believe is better? Are they struggling because they cannot do the job or are they struggling because they are expected to do the job the way a neurotypical person would do it.
I have definitely struggled at work and it has taken a cost on my mental health. All this in spite of being regarded as extraordinary. My difficulty comes not from what I can accomplish and not at all because I can’t think deeply about things. My struggles come from the expectation I can work in a rigid, scheduled, time-management-driven environment chock full of unproductive processes. All stuff neurotypicals either love or have no problem with. Basically, I’m like Superman working in an office made of kryptonite. If you REALLY want to help people with ADHD, show other people why their expectations are unrealistic or unfair and explore the alternative ways one can participate and contribute at what they’re good at rather than suggesting people give up and take on a different career.
@@rgfs71 I can respect that you do not agree. That said, it seems you understand context. My videos are typically less than 5 minutes for a reason... people on this media typically don't have the patients or attention span for context. One the surface "thinking inside your head" is a general term. Day dreaming can be considered thinking for some. Emoting can be considered thinking, digesting information can be interpreted as thinking. When i'm using the term it means thinking inside your head towards a goal. Often i ask people to calculate three to the power of five. It has multiple steps (as you described in planning comments), you have to track the calculation and the number of times you have multiplied it by three to get the answer which is the goal (243). This exercise is engaging a person to use their working memory. Working memory is an executive function and is impaired for those with ADHD. If you did the calculation on paper (thinking outside of your head it would be easy). Many ADHD tips tricks and strategies are to externalize thinking for this reason. Moving forward from my perspective (not necessarily factual research) there are three thinking PROCESSES, methodical, trial and error and insightful thinking. Then there is context… big picture or little picture.
My point it this… the use of thinking inside your head was a general phrase and not accurate for every sinero. As for the reference to the trades… my understanding via Dr. Barkley there is research supporting many with ADHD find a home in the trades. That is not to say everyone with ADHD should go into the trades.
Again, I can respect you might have a different opinion. I did want to illuminate thinking has many facets.
how does Jeff explain the myriade of super successful entrepreneurs with adhd ? that tosser's credentials are suspect .
Consider listening to my podcast on the gift curse debate and how the challenges can result in many rising to the occasion. Just google attention talk radio the gift or curse
It use to be 2 or 3 different kinds of learning people, now it's us and them . What some jealous fruit cakes .
That job thing isn't true at all and I hope no one is limiting kids with lame advice like that
not sure it is advice... but rather an explanation. Nothing is 100%.
It isn’t limiting to guide someone to a place they can flourish rather than encourage them to keep trying at something that isn’t working.
As a famous investor once said
"I wanna know where I will die , so that I dont go there"
Use this as a guide
Ya sure , Einstein , Edison both had adhd , both pursued intellectual pursuits , but thats despite adhd , kot because of adhd
Am adhder.. I stopped waching because of this boring parrot distracting me by yup.. yup.. yup..
sorry about that... was filmed in the early years.