Impact of Working Memory on ADHD
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- čas přidán 23. 07. 2024
- www.digcoaching.com. Jeff Copper is an ADHD coach and host of Attention Talk Video which is part of the Attention Talk Network, www.attentiontalknetwork.com.
Those with attention deficit disorder know what they are supposed to do. The challenge is in executing. In this video ADHD coach Jeff Copper interviews world renowned ADHD expert Dr. Russell Barkley (www.russellbarkley.org) on the impact of working memory challenges for those with ADHD and a discussion of what works.
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As for me, it's to interpret and remember instructions given prior to do a specific task. I tend to remember the instruction wrong or when it's time to do the task I froze and my mind goes blank and I look clueless on what I have to do. As I get older, it's becoming harder to explain these strange behaviors of mine without revealing my ADHD.
It is frustrating to me. As we grow older our working memory isn't as good. I use "i'm having a senior moment" when needed.
Be careful about disclosing your ADHD. You might just share your working memory isn't as good and go from there. No need to bring other issues into the mix unless you have to.
While your working memory it taxed focus on awareness and dealing with the challenges proactively.
Thanks for posting.
My mother, an engineer, used to always tell/ask people who might verbally start giving detailed instructions OR even simple requests--but while she was in the middle of some complicated task--: "Would you please write that down in a memo or email?"
I had one coworker (engineer) who was great about communicating repair instructions: 1) He'd enter the details into the computerized system, 2) he'd copy the details into an e-mail, include the person doing the repair plus other ancillary people who might be called on to help (parts, quality approval, etc), 2b) he would include additional context (e.g. failure writeup) but highlight his new text for clarity & speed, and 3) he'd walk down to the person doing the repair or the parts people, discuss the issue and writeup, answer any questions they had, and get a brief verbal comment about when or if additional support was needed.
I.e. I think everyone in our complicated, multi-function business world needs to practice such multi-faceted, integrated communications, whenever possible.
If you just verbally tell someone:
-what if other's need to know?
-What if they get interrupted or re-prioritized?
-What if they just have questions later?
If you only e-mail--like many do: then
a) LOTS can be misinterpreted,
b) some of us get dozens of e-mails a day while some get hundreds, and sometimes an e-mail just gets missed; and sometimes, some people forward e-mails without re-summarizing the latest need for action/information, or sometimes people reply & change the question or topic without changing the subject line,
and
c) what if you either leave off someone important or copy too many people without proper context or need of them yet?
And as for complicated computer tracking systems: they are only as good as
I) the data put in and being kept up as accurate,
II) the information being easily searchable, displayable, understandable, and/or triggering timely & easily understood reminders for action on the correct, current priorities,
III) All members of the team knowing & correctly using the system
@@whatisahandle221 I'd record if allowed or ask for an email. However, I'm on Concerta, and it has fixed pretty much 90% of my problems related to ADHD.
I was laid off and before that occurred had a manager whom often told me I was ineffective at my work and needed to work on retention and multi-tasking skills... our office was very social and loud. it took all I had to get a thing done.... only after the lay off have I realized the extent of my adhd, the role it plays at work, and that I am not an idiot nor am I a bad person for struggling differently. I hadn't been educated about my condition enough to know what to ask for.
work is a scary place sometimes and I sure hope everyone else reading this continues keep their confidence! #idkybily!!!
thanks for your post. you are not a bad person! Do what you can to find an environment that works for you.
Our office renovated around 2015 from ~4ft cubicles to open-offices. Many of the engineers complained, and a fair number of people would always be wearing headphones and/or put up ugly cardboard blinders so that people walking through wouldn't distract them.
When they did this, I look up on-line the open-office idea, and it was already being set aside as too distracting by the top silicon valley people. Our company didn't do their research.
One architect I met said they had done new office buildings for big companies in Asia, and one office had a "no-phone, no-talking" large area with undesignated seats: anyone who needed to concentrate on their own could go there, make themselves comfortable, and concentrate knowing they wouldn't be interrupted.
I can't tell you how many calming and productive it is when I have a complicated tasks to take all the papers and find an empty conference room. I can spread them out, markup, post-it, highlight, etc., and then can go back to my office and type up the results.
Oh, and while sound, talking, music, etc, can drive me to distraction, my wife is different: she gets distracted by clutter or disorganization.
I practically live in disorganized spaces--it may not be easy to file & refer back to things sometimes, but having things visible is a must for me so I don't get lost in thought searching through drawers.
My wife, though, says that if we even leave all the luggage out in the living room after a trip, she can't even think straight until it is all opened, sorted out, and put away into it's proper place.
Trying to do new work, but the simple stuff slows me down. Have had lots of time to consider all my masking tactics, and how I wish I could just pay for what I can't execute. Like when I ramble into an otter I can't. Edit it from a state of mind I produced It . And can't. Stop the tangents but can circle back. I need someone to clean up the transcript arrange it into a delivery framework I be pre decided. To find the facts and citations I want inserted, from the database I fill -but didn't design or maintain. I could deliver so much content. Also knowing myself I could probably learn the workflow once I see it done or have someone set it up so I have a visual path that is obvious one click per step process.. Sign 🖖 I will get there.
Becoming diagnosed in middle age, I have begun to realize how many crutches & work arounds I do on a daily basis because of apparent working memory limits:
-tabbed pages for daily/weekly to-dos & plans in a work journal
-dollartree Grocery list and an other-things list (e.g. hardware store items) on the fridge with a magneticly held pencil right next to them
-a basket by the front door for keys, wallet, chapstick, handcream, etc.: and ALWAYS put these things in it
-Multi-USB + holder devices for electronics' charging (w/ nearby cables for any speciality things like power bricks, smart watches, etc.)
-labels for new shelves or storage bins (until they become fixed in the house location)
-pen, pencil, & scissor cups _all_throughout_the_house, plus ost-its, notepads, & anything else I might regularily use to take notes or jot ideas, #s, etc. down
-color coded notebooks, checkboxes for to-dos in notebooks (vs just notes taken),
-dry erase marker in the bathroom so I can jot a reminder or idea down (vs taking the chance that I'll be interrupted by a fmaily member on the way to the kitchen lists)
I've also found that if I put my keys (w/ the basket) ontop or underneath things that I'll need to either take to work or complete an errand, then I'm less likley to forget them. For large things OR things like coffee, lunch, backpack, etc., I either put them in a close by "landing spot" (for things coming or going outside) OR I'll even put them right in front of the door so I don't have to give them a second thought about forgetting before I leave.
And these are just the day-to-day, known, common issues & tricks.
Keeping track of changing schedules, unique or complicated planning, and--of course--interruptions and urgent issues is a whole other ballgame that I'm still struggling with.
And as far as frustrations: the worse is when something important isn't where I thought I left it (if even under a pile of other papers): if either a family member, coworker, or (usually) I have moved/cleaned up the space. It's like being gaslighted unintentionally--either by a close person OR just your own brain's memory. :(
Brilliant... love so many of the things you have figured out. Hoping others read your post!!!!!
thanks
@@AttentionTalkVideo - The hard part has been realizing how much I didn't realize I needed them, and either succumbing to others' pressure to not be weird, or to my own pressure to not need "crutches".
Videos like yours, How to ADHD, and especially the short excerpt of Dr. Barkley's "This is how you treat ADHD based off science, Dr Russell Barkley part of 2012 Burnett Lecture" allow me space to accept the need to have these external aids, or "scaffolding" to support my brain's weak spots.
Even with exercise--I always loved sports--I considered it a "luxury" to go spend an hour at the pool or something else--if my family wasn't with me. Now I know it's highly important--to both myself _and_ my kids.
@@whatisahandle221 Great post. Often the difference between having ADHD and knowing a lot about it... and having ADHD and being successful is owning it. Your owning it. Booya!
Lol neurotypical people struggle with these systems. I struggle with a complete set up and and then retrieval.
Oh how I long for voice tech to fetch my files and integrate my personal database
@@Keriousity -Yes.
I also wish we had personal AIs.
I am so grateful for CTRL-f; I sometimes find myself impulsively wanting to use it on a paper book!
So, basically "Save to Disk" - love it. Just pretend like you're a software program without autosave. Be sure to "write to disk" frequently.
Great mindset!!!!
Great analogy!
Trilled it resonated with you!
I wish that videos like these were put into basic chunks, so it would not be so overwhelming to listen to for us with working memory problems.
Good point. In a way you are saying they need to be organized. Agreed.
That said... we have a learning opportunity around organizing. Information can be organized in many different ways (different ways to chunk it)... thus organization is a two step process. Step 1 is to choose which way you'll organize info step 2 is to organize it within the chosem method... translated... pick the chunks you'll use then put videos into those chunks.
Since video content is evolving it is hard to define the chunks before you know what the content is... hence the challenge.
Hoping to figure out an easy way to chunk things.
Thanks for posting.
Thanks Jeff for posting this. I can't help but laugh when Russel and yourself provide examples of poor working memory as I have these exact issues. This video helps me understand my working memory issues in a more in-depth way, and how I can more easily manage complex real life situations at work and in University.
Thanks for watch my channel.
Thrilled the content helps.
That's exactly how it is.
was just diagnosed with inattentive adhd at 32 . my working memory is horrible. i remover feeling so dumb… as a kid sitting at my desk looking at the assignment not knowing how to even start … i hope to start medication soon but i’ve heard it doesn’t help with working memory.
first thanks for watching the video and for posting.
Second, be weary of blanket statement. Especially in the ADHD world. What works is based on the situation (no one size fits all).
That said, i hesitate to write this because it is foreign to most but... meds help working memory when the topic is stimulating... but that isn't why you take meds. You take meds to help you focus on things that are not stimulating. The meds help but marginally. When i coach people i don't focus on them over coming working memory impairment but rather to work with it.
If this video speaks to you and you can listen to podcast google attention talk radio GPS and listen to my longer interview with Dr. Barkley on working memory.
Try have a conversation while your in the cell and with someonelse next to you !, or somone giving you their address or phone number memorizing
good point!
I hear alot of office talk.
What about those of us that work in spaces that are heavy customer service and retail?
(Example: I worked at Walmart and was brought in for a talk to management for keeping written logs on what I was doing ((all so I could remember tasks)). due to them thinking it could do with teift!!! .. I was targeted for keeping a record of what I had and knew I had to do in my life with ADD ..
I work now at at a coffee shop. All customer service and very fast paced. How can some one deal with ADD in these environements??
I feel like we were lost in here.
Not 100% i understand your comment. That said, if you were taking notes on personal things on work time I can see how they would take issue with that if it was excessive. If you were taking notes to help work performance then i would encourage you to advocate for your self... but again, i'm not sure if i'm understanding your comment correctly.
@@AttentionTalkVideo - Is ADHD a recognized disability? I.e. is it something that employers have to accommodate?
Note: In manager training, I came across a comment that in order to eligible for an accommodation, an employee has to be qualified first--without an accommodation--to be able to do a job without it (maybe not as well, but still capable).
@@whatisahandle221 Simple question... complicated answer. It is recognized as a disability under the right circumstances. Question is what is the right circumstances? That is the complex part. Sorry i can't be of more help.
Lol worked as a cook. Always asked for salary so I could be sure to have a buffer to clean up after myself because no matter the effort, I just take longer to clean up and I appear disorganized but actually complete tasks faster and have better product-- when I am not self conscious about how it looks getting there, I have systems that work in kitchens. my friction was being told I had accomplish a task in a specific order. Not allowed to produce a high quality product. 'why are you doing it like that' was the worst question. Kitchen prep and productivity. Was not about established and consistent routine. But a mercurial. Puzzle of components, I put together based on the vast methods others used. Researching restaurants was my off time. unlike digital productivity, I could spatially store information. When others couldn't. Find ingredients or tools I could verbally guide them to it's. Location having stored the information unconsciously. Can I label and store and retrieve digital assets the same way? Not yet....🤨😣
@@whatisahandle221 my strategy was always total immersion, knowledge of industry seemed to offset some of my idiosyncrasies, taking a dollars per hours hit by asking for salary so I could have a time buffer without a lecture about labor costs or overtime (I have even clocked out and finished tasks required) I am not recommending these strategies. Took 15 years to self implode but mostly because of being a single mom with teenagers and a shift in that dynamic. To many shifts in focus when getting phone calls from school and supporting my daughters anxiety and depression. This is all in hindsight, I didn't. Know I had Adhd then. I thought I was defective or experiencing unusual hardship from bad luck and bad time management and organization skills. So have been trying and failing to conquer those ever since. Recently realized I can stop asking why can't. I follow these steps consistently like everyone else. And started to ask, what would make getting from point a to done on a wider timeline instead of what do I want to finish today, what do I want to do weekly And only "squirrel " to another task I pre decided I wanted to complete. I haven't gotten results quite yet but it feels more manageable, like I will more likely to achieve what set out to once I find my stride. Unlike remove all distractions and have everything you need to complete task before you began task approach. I am trying go as far as I can note what I need for next time in that project, could be later same day or next day or in procrastination cram style before self imposed deadline. I hope I can get this to serve my better.
It's. Not that I don't. Want to be disciplined its that I can't. Its not that I haven't tried. Every tactic strategy or advice that starts with " its easy all your have to do...." all I have to do boooooo seems simple But spend a day between my ears- promise it is NOT easy.
Well, what can you do when your work computer is a gaming computer too? 😂
that is challenging. I did and interview on attention talk radio years ago with dr Clifford Sussman on ADHD and screen addiction. We talked about how hard it is. Like an eating disorder. You can't just not eat. Have you figured anything out that helps?
I have smart lights that change color depending on what I'm supposed to be doing.
During the work day, it's a bright white light (about 3000k - the bluer the better). After 5pm, the lights turn a purplish-red color at a dimmer level (any color would work but avoid blue in the evening). And close to bedtime they become dimmer again.
The change in color changes the mood of the room, so it feels like you are in a different physical space.
I also use Night Shift and dim the computer monitors to reduce blue light and light overall.
Kinda hard to be gaming when you've got the bright white work lights on, and vice versa.
Whats going on with the phone. This is the strangest thing I've seen.
not sure i understand you post. Can you restate it?
If im 50ty years old they tell me take 30% off of your age and gives you 35 year old mental functionality with a 1/2 Tank of gas. Adhd !! I wonder its better for fuel glucose o ketones, hyperactivity may be caused by high sugars a regular diet is esential !!
I understand the brain doesn't finish maturing till age 29. Not sure if this is right but i think you take 30% ish off up to age 29. At like age 41 everyone is even.
that's what popups do to me. unplug my computer.
hmm... make sense!
Was having trouble with one particular one. Have reinstalled NoScript and am much happier now. NO more chasing down pop-up eradication solutions for hours WHEN the executive in me SHOULD be doing something else.