Toxic Productivity w/ Bjergsen | Dr. K Interviews
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- čas přidán 10. 07. 2024
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▼ Timestamps ▼
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00:00:00 Intro
00:00:17 Interview Start
00:01:42 On Season vs. Off Season (Boomer Dr. K Switches Layout)
00:10:53 Toxic Productivity
00:29:30 Being Bullied
00:37:18 Needing To Catch Up, Letting Go of Ambition
00:59:00 Not Feeling Good Enough
01:11:25 Cultivating Acceptance
01:26:07 Burnout and Performance Optimization
01:40:47 Swatting Aside Compliments
01:48:09 Meditation
Check out Bjergsen's Twitter and thank him for coming on the show! / bjergsen
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#bjergsen #drk #tsm
Please try to get a talk with Doublelift. I don't know if he'd agree to it given his personality, but that guy's life story is really, really unique.
Seconding this!!!
I was just thinking of this and now i scroll and see it in the comments
that would be a banger episode but double aint the type of guy
NEVER GIVING UP to never win the big show. shits tough man, i wish he would speak on it too
We should all @ him on Twitter to get him to atleast be interested!!!
Man... His struggles growing up and the fact that he is where he is now is fucking incredible. Soren is a real g dude. God damn.
The guys at the bottom often have more motivation to get to the top. The pain creates a momentum pendulum. Sometimes you will see the bullies from school working at the supermarket (Nothing wrong with that, but not the height of success) and the bullied kids end up being the ones who are rich and meet the guy working at the supermarket later. Funny how life works out.
@@TinyBudha danny do you think that happens most of the time or is it rare
@@TinyBudha nahh. The more succesful a person is in social and economic hierarchies the more narcissistic, psychopathic and sociopathic traits they likely have. This has been shown over and over again. Usually it is the bullied that works in a supermarket or takes their life and the bullies (if they learn to contain their traits, and dont end up in prison) become succesful.
@@TinyBudha it is the bullies who believe they can hurt other people, and are entitled to succeed become succesful thanks to their aggression and confidence, wich is required in leadership positions of modern world.
@Daniel Hoefler that is false. Narcissism, psychopathy, sociopathy, etc. Is highly heritable, and a person who is on the spectrum of those conditions is more likely to be a bully. (Because they are violent, entitled and lack empathy). One can argue ofcourse narcissists lack confidence, wich is probrably true. But the lack of confidence in narcissists is very internalized, and you might not be able to know from the outside. Were you ever bullied? Did you become a bully?
This was one of my favourite guests ever. Very intelligent and good at formulating his thoughts, but still not afraid to answer the questions honestly no matter what the "correct" answer might be.
You think so? Tsm reddit thought he dodged a lot of questions.
@@pkthunder7008 I mean it more in the sense that if he has a disagreement he expresses it. It is very likely he is fooling himself, but it's better than agreeing when that is not how you really feel because at least then you can really adress your biases. He is being honest from his perspective, but a lot of his thoughts are probably rationalizatiopns. That is what I think is interesting about him.
@@pkthunder7008 I didn't see anyone on the TSM subreddit mention him dodging questions lol
I think he has a mask up.. and he's not willing to open up all the way. This is just like I used to be when I was younger. He's not actually helping Dr. K understand I feel.
and a BEAST of a player
Bjergsen’s way of communicating is refreshingly unique. Open, yet very concise. Strong attributes for a coach!
Jennifer Wang thanks for the interesting counterpoint! As I currently work in mental health, much of my time is taken listening to arbitrary points and “filler” sentences, so to hear someone consider their response and then speak it with clarity is quite refreshing. I appreciate where that from another standpoint it could be seen as blunt and non-empathic though; I appreciate the insight!
On the other hand, I think it would be welcome to have Soren be less concise and more emotionally rich! He did seem very objective, accurate and concise, but I did also notice a lack of emotional content.
@Jennifer Wang @Zenju It seems as though you're both coming from a similar place, which I now understand a lot clearer! If you're trying to understand where someone is coming from, or to get a deeper insight into the depths of their experience, then Soren's responses would likely not be seen as helpful.
What I saw as helpful coaching traits was his ability to reflect and formulate a clear answer to a problem; perhaps his growth then will be focused around intertwining an emotional component to the interaction, in order to better connect with his team. Thought provoking stuff! :)
I'd say this way of communication is very common in Northern Europe.
not sure if we watched the same thing but Bjerg was answering "yea, mmhmm, i dont know" the whole time
its called grinding solo queue post effects
"The way I live life when I'm autopilot doesn't really make me happy"
I feel that, brother.
Felt the same lately, been seeing a therapist and it’s certainly helped. Lot to work through but it’s been worth it for me so far
As a College Student ( and a failing one in the past ), the parts about "Needing to Catch up, letting go of ambition" and "not feeling good enough", and the analogy of "Pit Soren" helped me to identify and understand my actual struggles, and also why i'm terrified of failure : i don't want to fall back into the pit
Your Videos are really helpful, thank you
Same.
I'm in the same boat, now in my masters year. I feel you.
Same dude, it doesnt help that in my line of work everyone seems to think that you have to do more and more and more...
Thank you so much Dr K! Really needed this 💚
Man Bjergsen is such a great guy. Super excited to see him in a coaching position but I sure do miss watching him on stage. Great perspective and super intelligent dude, wishing you nothing but the best Soren.
Hey Doctor K., I wanted to thank you for doing what you do. I started therapy recently and going through this toxic positivity also and a few other things. Ironically I'm Danish also; keep up the awesome work, man, and looking forward to more videos. And a final note, thanks for giving me the confidence to go to a therapist and getting help.
Much Love,
Dane
Another great thing is that watching Dr. K. helped make my therapy I had last year so much more effective. Taking subjects from his video that speak to you to your therapist and talking with him/her about how they can help you better when it isn't working well are really great tips for people inexperienced with therapy.
Best of luck to you!
As a person that got bullied as a kid from 4th-8th grade in school, it hit hard. I am not a super high achiever (I believe) but some of the stuff still resonated. Inadequacy and the need to focus on growth are so there. This got me to get some doctors appointments and get some vacation time to care for myself. Thank you Dr.K, thank you Soren
27:55 that is very relatable. The only thing dampening the immanent existential dread, is the feeling of not having wasted time.
deep
Can't wait to listen to this one! POG
Love your profile pic!
@@DrAElwood Ty ^^
I am so glad you broached these specific topics with Soren, there is a lot in this interview that resonates with me. But mostly, working in a field where there are high expectations as well as dealing with people who suffer from the "more is better" mindset to the exclusion of other considerations, that's where this relates so much to me. Thanks Doctor K.
This was a great watch, thank you Dr. K for interviewing Soren, and thank you Soren for sharing.
Just like with Bjerg, many therapists in the past have told me to "stay" with negative emotions, or to sit on them, but I never truly understood what that meant. Near the end of the video, at 1:43:52, Dr. K very eloquently explains how to do this, and what it accomplishes. Many patients don't ask for clarification and therapists don't bother explaining, but Dr. K proactively does so.
Thank you for coming on Bjerg. I have always admired your personality as a league player and a coach.
It's so crazy to see how Bjergsen has grown. I remember when he joined TSM and it was a huge deal. He was such a young kid, and a huge change for the team. Even just listening to his accent and how American he sounds now is crazy to me.
Man, Soren is so great. Much love to you brother!
ngl i was tearing up when Bjerg was asked about bullying.. as someone who experienced it (even if it wasn’t to the same degree as him), i know that all the negative thoughts and feelings rush back into the mind instantly and feel very overwhelmed by the past trauma.
i really admire bjerg on his growth over the years and how he’s learned to accept his past and make a better future for himself.
I loved this interview my favorite player of all time.
This is a fantastic one. This is a topic I have not really seen be talked about, but I am very glad it was.
Thanks so much for reaching out to Bjerg or vice versa; such an inspiring person.
Yay. I love Bjerg so much. Seems like such a good humble dude.
I am watching this for my second time now. 🙏 Really insightful considering I watched bjerg since the beginning of his career in esports and I can relate to a lot of his insecurities and some of his aspirations to be the top 1%
YOOOOO this is a video I didn't know I wanted. I'm very excited for the hachubby interview as well. Im so excited I can't wait ;-;
This was a wonderful video, I feel like Dr. K and Bjergsen both grew from this conversation. I am thankful to be able to see a mirror, and am hoping to be able to be more patient and listen more actively going forward in my own conversations.
This is so on point, what a great duo lane!
This video was seriously so insightful! understanding where some behaviour patterns emerge from in this way sounds like something I could seriously benefit from
Soren does not only have big brains but he is brave as fuck. One of the very few people in these interviews that even if is afraid of hearing the answers, it will still stay there to received them and understand them. For me that is a hero... the one who does have fear to something but is willying to conquer it!
Amazing interview, thanks for sharing!
Bjerg's signature champ being Syndra as a growing player makes so much sense with this interview. "I can be so much more"
This is hilarious
Bjergsen is a fucking hero to me! I’m so sorry for what he has being through, but I’m glad he’s working it out, I’m cheering for him ❤️
I am so happy this showed up between my recomendations.
Dear Soren , I expect you will never see or read this comment. In the off chance that you do you might be inclined to discount what I have said. As afterall I am just a fan and someone who could be "wrapped up in the hype of my favorite player". First before anything I would like to say thank you. I say thank you for all the years that you have worked harder than anyone else to be the best you could possibly be. Over anything else that you demonstrate , principally your dedication is undeniable. Dedication is easy if you believe but you have went so far above and beyond simple dedication. You have demonstrated dedication with every ounce of your being. I am a fan of you , not because of your skill. Not because of your accolades but because you are the definition of someone to cheer for someone to be proud of. Thank you Soren.
1000%... I wanted so much success for him bc he truly earned it and deserved it! International he had some unlucky times... specially 2016.. which I believe that Tsm was the strongest Na team going to worlds ever! Just got out in a god dam group with Uzi RNG and Samsung! Ridiculous competition! And they still out played both teams during the world events and Almost got out of groups...;( Soren Bjerg I miss you more than you know! Every time I went to Lcs you remembered me and even said “Hey it’s you again, I love your glasses” will never forget that... and another time, when you lost to clutch gaming and Tsm was so sad that they didn’t want to meet with the fans at the end of the Game so, bjergsen was rushing to his Uber and everyone was going up to him, just to say hi and it’s okay that you lost! He Stops looks at me and says hey man, sure I’ll signed your jersey! And he did! Just with me and two other people... Bjergsen love you boss
Sometimes we are not aware how much we are motivated by shame,fear anger etc.
I think we tend to go through life very unaware of the motivations/feeling behind our actions.
I have come to understand this year how much I'm motivated/paralyzed by shame and how much I react and build my day to day based on that emotion.
This has changed my life. Thank you Dr. K.
This is really interesting and insightful. As a someone who's watched most all of Bjerg's career, it's really neat to see the person behind the player/coach.
Also I feel less weird about doing the same "mmmmmm" thing when someone asks me a question that I have to think about for a moment.
Listening to Bjergsen is like looking into a mirror for me... definitly an extremely insightful interview! Thanks a lot
Now you figured out why Dr. k does this. To benefit the general public
28:10 - "Why do you have to make the most of your days?" - I honestly don't know why, but this just hit home for me. The sense of inadequacy across all stages of my life & not wanting to be a burden, I can feel how heavy this question was myself 😔
I don't know you personally Soren, but we share some very similar thought patterns, you are an amazing individual, you have grown to heights in your respective field most people don't dream to, but that doesn't mean you can't still always try to be better while also recognizing your accomplishments, you are an inspiration to many! And so are you Dr. K thank you for helping de-stigmatize mental health awareness, you are an inspiration too!
I'll never be able to talk through a doorway the same... thanks Dr K
God DAMN! Dr. K asks the most POWERFUL questions. I love ya Dr K. and what you do. Amazing work.
Go to therapy brother. It helps.
This talk made me skip my lecture tomorrow. I’ve been working and stressing out way too long, I need a good nights sleep. Thanks Dr. K.
I know Soren's spoken about his childhood and the bullying before, but just an in-depth understanding of how he's grown and matured is crazy. I remember the 17 year old playing his first TSM game, and Soren is extraordinarily mature for his age. Super impressed with his growth overall
what a powerful and insightful conversation it is
Incredibly helpful, thanks for this.
I always loved Soren and I knew a lot of his story, but this really hit me in the feels.
Never clicked on a vid so fast, BJERGER KING!
the classic soren "hmmm" before an answer. love you king
the day has come! best episode by far.
"Chat can decide, I'm sure they would have a better idea than me" last few ironic words before he left had me overthinking
This was an amazing talk, and something that really helped me change my perspective. Cause i thought this way of working, was the only way.
Holy hell, I could relate near perfectly to this.
It's so good. This channel is awesome.
I pretty much never comment on youtube, but respect to Bjergsen for doing this. No doubt its difficult putting your thoughts and emotions out in public, but this video is definitely going to help people going thru similar exp's. Regi give this man a break seriously
when they synced 12:07 , i knew its time to start digging in.
No FUCKING WAY!!! Out of all the things that could happen on youtube, I did not expect my all-time favourite LoL player (who I've followed for 7 years) to show up here.
Bjerg you'll go down as the greatest LoL player of all time in my book not so much because of your accolades (which are incredible) but because of your drive to reach them. You'll fly higher once you overcome the negative energy you have weighing you down telling yourself you're not good enough. There's a difference between not thinking you're good enough and wanting to improve. Don't stop improving, and you can best do this by wasting less time questioning if you're the right guy for the job, because you are
I see so much of Bjergsen in myself, besides the looks that we are similar we also worked through the same kind of struggle as a kid, thinking we were popular with the popular kid, but actually just being the kid the popular kids brought along to bully behind our backs.
And following him since the CPHWolves days I can't fathom how his life has progressed so amazingly as it has, from a succes searching point of view of course..
its been 7 years but bjerg always find a way to inspire me some ways or the other. One of my dreams is that I just wanna see you win man
I went through many of these so I feel it, win smiling papa
very relatable for me just for diff fields
HOLLY FUCK THIS VIDEO IS INSANELY AMAZING AND HELPFUL THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS
I think it's ingrained in people that are bullied that something is inherently bad about us. So when people give us compliments, we have a hard time accepting them and we're waiting for the other shoe to drop. We're waiting for the trap. We're used to people not liking us and finding the bad things in us and not liking us, so it couldn't possibly be true.
The whole section with underdevelopment hits really home for me, but instead of physically underdeveloped, I felt intellectually underdeveloped. I was born outside of my parents homeland and the difficult thing was that my parents didn't properly learn how to speak the language. So, I had to speak my parents language at home while learning a completely different language at school. I was behind with almost everything compared to my peers and was also put in a special class for extra help because I didn't understand a thing. When I was around 7 years old, I would begin to feel self-conscious and embarrassed whenever I couldn't do an assignment or something right. Sometimes, I would even feel humiliated. I felt most of my peers were "greater" or "smarter" than me, and I would unconsciously do my best with everything to "catch up". I carried this mindset to high school, I worked hard and got into the hardest curriculum. I thought my work paid off, but my class was filled with mostly super smart people, so again, I felt like I was not enough and had to work hard. I also found out if I didn't work my ass off, I wouldn't make it and feel embarrassed and bad when most of the class passed the stupid test. And now, I'm in University still feeling that way. There are times now when I feel like I "catched up", but I would undermine it, saying it was because 'I'm working hard' instead of just aknowledging my own skills.
respect ur hussle tho, king sht man head up high!
Your mindset of working hard is great, however be careful to not get burned out, I've realized that I lost touch of my goals in life trying to simply get better, I at some point I started working just to work and get that A or 4.0 instead of working towards a goal I wanted, it left me demotivated and without a passion which I am trying to regain. Don't be embarrassed, imo I've been in the position of a ""gifted"" kid (being told you are smart and never challenged only ever makes you a perfectionist who's afraid of failure and procrastinates as a result and don't even try.) and someone who had to struggle. You need to maintain a good balance, I am still working on it but have gotten better.
@@willywonka1962 Yeah I agree, this whole thing shaped me into a perfectionist. My mental health was progressively getting worse so I started to do less and go with the flow. Just like dr. K said, "more" does not always get you the best result. But we still go back to our old mindset bcs old habits die hard, right?
@@huihui3080 Old habits do die hard, you'll slip up perhaps for days or weeks, but keep at it, even 3 seconds is progress compared to zero
When someone asks me who I look up to I immediately think of bjerg. So excited to watch this
damn, the idea of season / off season is exactly what happens to me while doing all my stuff and when burning out and not doing anything; I've done some sort of experiment thinking about my own death: while doing work, I feel like my death is something inevitable, and I wouldn't feel any remorse in actually dying. While in burnout, and just living the moment, I feel the weird instinct of holding into life aggressively, like I can't even think about it and feeling ok
it's something pretty weird that happens, I hope Dr K could talk about it someday
can you clarify more meaning of the "instinct of holding into life aggressively" please?
@@IndefiniteMark I really don't know, the best way to describe it is what I wrote; another way of seeing it is like, I am having fun playing some videogame, for example, and I don't want to stop doing it, and if I think about stoping, I get a little hype inside me telling me NO. Something like that but with life
it is a very weird topic tho, I hope that helps you understand hopefuly a little better
@@benia1908 its not a weird i think, its familiar and relatable. Some days i used to not want to go sleep feeling a similar way. Have you examined the topic of 'existential dread'?
@@benia1908 a new episode is streaming now (asmongold) regarding very similar topic. I think you'll find it helpful.
keep doing what you're doing at the very end
love this man
Love you Soren
I feel personally called out every second of this interview so far O.O
There is a lot I have said myself in therapy. Also even if people are happy and tell me great job amazing yay I tend to think they must be lying or they don't know anything and I should have done 3x better.
fax
I do a lot of music and whenever one of my teachers says good job or praises me i think my mom probably told Them that oh he's sensitive (which im not) or she payed Them extra for saying that...
This was difficult because until 45 min mark, whenever Dr.K asks "What do you feel about X?" , Bjergsen hears: "What do you think about X?"
they mean basically the same thing he probably has a thinking preference cognitively
I thought the same thing. If I was in Bjergsens place I would have thought: "Enough with this psychotherapy uno reverse question bs. I want to have a conversation and not talk to myself."
@@RedNeckActual he's talking to a psychologist lol
@@JerryReyes I know that. But I think Dr K overused the tool that this question is a bit in the conversation. The question is usually used to further introspection or let the patient come to a conclusion himself. Like that he understands the subject better as if Dr K was just telling him the answer. In the sense of a conversation between to humans it would have been a bit frustrating to always get the questions mirrored back. I think a "I think that ... What do you think?" Would have been better answers sometimes.
@@RedNeckActual is that your professional opinion or
1:49:00 I felt that, I too do everything I do with intent. Probably because in school I was an outcast but want really bullied, I was just passive and perceptive- which means I noticed that standing out got you attention and attention could get you in trouble, so for everything noticeable I do I have to have intent , an explanation
OMG, I have always felt this way, but I have never been able to figure out why. Thank you!
@@tylerrobichaux9521 Same x-x
I got physically and mentally bullied by more than 8 people at one school I went to. I feel like attention didn't matter. I was bullied because everyone else did it. It was common for me to come home crying hitting the walls, doors and screaming. I screamed because no one helped me even the teachers at the school. I felt weak. When I see other people in pain I just want to protect them. I only went to that school maybe a couple days a month, I wish I never did though. It was easier getting bullied in the other schools.
12:08 wow what a timing :D
You can tell when people have great rapport is when they start mirroring each other subconsciously. Probably just coincidence though haha
Dr. K is insane. Such an intelligent conversation that is broken down by him and made so easy to follow for the viewers. So many great nuggets of knowledge throughout
I feel like i learned so much about myself in this session that it's hard to put into words. Like I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the catch-22 situation where both paths were the wrong path and the correct response was to do nothing. This one is def going to be a save-for-later and rewatch. Ty Dr. K and Soren!
I’m trying to sleep and I thought I’ll be good to watch this but man. This was intense. Doesn’t seem like it but it’s damn intense.
Woahh I did the same thing lol. So then I eventually had to force myself to stop this video so I could actually sleep.
Really excited about Asmond
I'm a HS Special Education teacher, and I have ADHD, GAD, and Bipolar II, and probably would have been labeled as twice exceptional (Gifted but also have disabilities) if I had ever been tested in school. Sometimes I come across Dr. K's videos when looking for things for my study skills students. This is hitting me so hard. How long have you felt behind? - My whole life. I have always been behind in terms of my executive functioning skills. I can't actually get crap done. It doesn't matter if you have amazing ideas for lessons and things to teach the students if you can't figure out how to manage your time to actually write the lesson plans. It has literally been like this my entire life. Then there is the perfectionist part of things, so yeah....
Props to Dr.K persistent with him. Both of them work hard to beat the blind spot of bjergsen. It is tough to let go the things that makes you a person. On the other side, circumstances has changed and the price of not letting go is already overcome the price of letting go.
Love these videos
Jesus, can I watch even one of these without feeling totally called out? I cry even when the participants don't.
Bjergsen needs to come on to more talk shows
Damn Bjergsen is a beast, I respect the man.
I had to pause this at 1:49:28 because I literally could not keep up meditation until I learned through this channel that I could actually specify my meditation to something. So, to clarify, I could not meditate because I want to learn to focus. I did not know at the time I had ADHD, so I almost hated myself for it. Upon coming to this channel and learning so many things, the most valuable to me right now is learning to meditate to improve focus. I love to breakdance but even my ADHD ruins it in a sense. Meditation for focus has helped me out so much in the short span (aka a month lol) that I have been attempting it. My many thanks Dr. K. I am very curious to see where the last bit of this interview goes.
BJERGSEN
LETSSSSS GOOOOOOO BJERGGGGG
Thats the GOAT right there
The length of time only matters to the point of what u accomplish with that time.
In a 12 hour grind where u realistically can not picking up information from all of those hours is wasted time.
But 4 hours where one can actually process all the information thrown at you will net one a better end result.
So it's time vs the ability to discern what u intend to learn.
Suffering in positivity
This was beautifull
Why do I loathe TSM so much but absolutely love Bjerg? This dude is so genuine. I can't help but want to know about his life story
holy shit its Bjerg
HOLYYY SHTT!! The mid lane #1 God.
@@josephsmith23127 imagine taking what he said literally
@@josephsmith23127 he's number 1 in my heart
@@Lolshi11 NA's Legend
@@quangphu6787 Denmarks legend*
@@Eva_xoxo no, NA's legend.
After this interview soren bjergsen bjerg realized the only fulfillment he wants to feel is winning worlds and carries tsm to a worlds victory. Now a TSM Zilean skin is in the game in his honor
HOLY SHIT THE GOAT IS HERE WTF?!?!?!
wow this was not something I could have seen coming!
Well pokimane broke up with him he needed this
@@Pkey995 underated comment
This feels like it was made for me.
This man Dr. K. What a G. SHEEEESH
Rewiring at the question ..
The construction ending with "just a feeling" as an indicator of the reflection of (some younger identity) with some trauma-like moment as a pre-prepared reflex of the body,
And meditation being influenced by inadequacy were all very helpful / insightful. It's easy to see that B has put his blood into the work & he is right to feel that it shouldn't be so jagged.
That's a consequence largely of an intentionally rapid and proportionally advantageous meta-loop design, complete with digital casino
The designs are meant to be self-replicating
I'm very curious how these interviews happen. Is this something people sign up for or does Dr. K reach out to people? This was a really great one to listen to.
P sure dr K knows very little about the participants so I would assume people sign up themselves