Dodging Alliance Torps - These Things Are Like Taxes
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- čas přidán 25. 07. 2024
- After seeing clips of the latest premium submarine WG added to the game, I needed to test it out for myself, to see just how ridiculous the homing on these torps is? Turns out, absolutely ridiculous.
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0:00 Daring Testing
3:15 Hindenburg Testing
10:10 Homing Explained
11:25 Bourgogne Testing
18:55 T8 Realization
19:52 Kiev Testing - Hry
After testing this extensively, if you don't have hydro, you can't wait until you see the torps to DCP the ping (like you do against other subs), because the torps are so stealthy and the homing is so aggressive, by the time you see them it's already too late. That 21:30 cross-torp ambush really says it all, DCPing the ping after seeing the torps wouldn't have saved me, as the ambush was already setup. The torps also do this crazy turning around to chase you, as shown here: clips.twitch.tv/LongScrumptiousAardvarkKeyboardCat-iK6TCowlT0-Cx8N3
It's clearly a skill issue
Not sure what the problem is. Just submerge or take off. You clearly need to find a better way to interact with submarines. Clearly.
And now you know why I got banned from their FORUMS and quit playing. I was literally asking how I was expected to fight a submarine who knew what he was doing and the moderators jumped in and basically said, "Git gud scrub!" Then they banned me from asking any further questions.
You MUST turn in and try to shorten the distance as that is the only possible way to shake the torps. Trying to run from them just lets him send salvo after salvo up your wake that you cannot dodge. The torps are just too fast and maneuverable to run from. And using DCP before you are flooding is suicide because you are going to flood out if you do. If you team does not focus the sub down before he sinks you then you're toast. If the sub doesn't get you then you'll end up spotted and broadside to the enemy while dodging and they'll get you.
Clearly you didn`t try the following simple manouver(s) to deal with submarines in WoWS.
a) press ALT+F4
b) optional - check your antivirus system and block the wargaming client in it, if it has that function
c) uninstall WoWS Client
But jokes aside - it hurts how they ruined the game. And then seemingly went ... how can we ruin it even harder/more
But Kitakami is too much apparently lmao
I like how the slow homing torps are advertised as a weakness, while in reality it just makes their turning circle tighter...
It's like an aircraft doing a 9g turn at 600 knots vs 400 knots. The turning circle is tighter.
"We gave it slow torps so you could watch and ponder over your death while wondering why you play our game. Now please give us a hundred dollars for the experience!" 😁
Where is THAT advertised? Homing torps are HARDLY slow quite the opposite in fact. Just like with US dreadnaughts people complain how slow they are but fail to mention how easily they can turn. Thus is the law of hydrodynamics and/or laws of physics.
@@jaywerner8415 I have Alliance and the homing torps do 44 knots with speed boosts. Most ships can just outrun them, especially if 7km or more away (they're slower than Blacks torps). They only work well against targets close to you or pushing into you.
The unguided torps (7km) are better in my experience and do a lot more damage.
It's still powerful boat.
@@Joshua-fi4ji 44 knots? Wow that is slow. No wonder they can turn so well, speaking from XP from the US and German subs their torps go twice that speed. Whats the range of the homing torps out of curiosity? Probably about 10-12kms i take it?
Damage is the whole point of the unguided torps. Frankly i wish the torpedo speeds of tech line Subs where SWAPED, cus besides damage the "ALT" torps are worse in every way (on paper). Cus oh my god a torpedo that goes less then 70 knots is just PAINFUL to watch.
It feels like you are trying to fight a gen-4 fighter with homing missiles while driving a grossery cart. So much fun.
Me shopping for torps in my Grossery Kartfurst.
@@Sky_Guy lmfao nice one
He’s right, this sub is very gross
@@Sky_Guy I'm actually dead from this 😂
@@Sky_Guywhat a joke
Even torpedoes in Star Trek being hundreds of years in the future dont have that kind of homing capability. WW2 tech truly was state of the art!
It always seemed like ST torpedoes were point and shoot, i dont think they home. Except that one in The Undiscovered Country that was specifically modified to seek the Bird of Preys exhaust.
Honestly this is pretty much late cold War tier homing, a torpedo being avoided, circling around and still hitting the ship is the sort of thing you'd except from the ADCAP, not WW2
@@AdamtheRed- Torps in star trek do home in, I believe there's a few other episodes that mention them being guided.
@@firesb7791 real life torpedoes can't intercept, they can only track (home) - This is technology that does not exist in 2023, not in torpedoes anyway.
@@glennv3176 Actually, I believe some of the modern NATO torpedoes post-ADCAP do have the capability to predict trajectory and target accordingly, apparently the capabilities of British submarines especially are pretty insane
EXACTLY what we all wanted. Active player numbers are prooving it too. Everyone is happy.
Its totally true! I was so stoked with where the game is headed that i stopped playing. Now I'm super sad. (I also dont understand the difference between my emotions)
Played back in 12.0 wanted to play with new ita cruiser buffs and take out Gorizia and Kronstadt, after seeing this game can stay unupdated. 20k battles they destroyed my most relaxing game. Im sad too ngl 😢
And this is on the LIVE Server... Who is testing this and thinks this is fine.
They've fired the testing staff and used that money to buy back shares in their stock.
The same idiots who thought IJN CLs were overpowered so they got it nerfed countless time before they hit live server...
The 16 year olds they hired from the last dev video we saw.
Couple of my friends were CSTs and gave up after some time. Entire CST server provided feedback and ways to improve for ijn cl and performance of subs. You wanna know what wg did? threw it into papershredder and REMOVED ,,FEEDBACK" SECTION FROM CST DC entirely. Now the only feedback, people can provide is ,,do you like the *insert new test ship name* ? 1)yes 2) No
@@i_nameless_i-jgsdf Wait what, that's why I think I'm having a poor time in them? I haven't played in years (stopped shortly after the carrier rework), but my father still plays and wanted to play with me, so I jumped through every hoop imaginable to install this thing on my linux computer (a freaking nightmare), then took a look at what I could do in the game while I play with my pops, and saw shiny new IJN CLs. And now you're telling me they've been nerfed into the ground before I even got a chance to play them?!
this kind of torp should be called an anti-ship missile.
Trust me anti-ship missiles weren't that good a few decades ago, even now only the best could come close to dat
torpedoes are actually considered underwater missiles. the only difference is that they move in 2 dimensions rather than 3.
@@malamutekid8871Depends on the era of torpedoes. Modern torps like the MK48 or Spearfish move 3D like missiles.
@@OverlordAntares yeah, more modern ones do. the older ones usually move in two dimensions, especially if we're only talking about World of warships
anti wows players, more like, only cv and sub players left soon
The torpedo knows where it is at all times
It knows where it is because it knows where it isn't.
Well, I predicted missiles for the game, I just didnt think they would be under water...
Same
I like how with CVs you need at least another ally to create a cross-fire. This thing creates cross-fires by itself.
and then Double alliance game ... enjoy XD
I lost it the moment he said: "This is live"
How did THIS pass testing?
WTF?
@Mathew Long But they want and need to earn money right?
@@antraxxslingshots They get it by people wanting to buy the overpowered shit. Once any purchase is made by a player, WG stops caring about what they do. They've already got the money.
Torps that out-turn DDs? Pure magic. WoWS turning into a fantasy game.
@@AKUJIVALDO vatnik cope trash
@@hipperguy1654 one MSM consumer detected. Ukraine is "winning" one year later...with their tanks in Moscow as Elentsky said... Oh wait... LOL
@@AKUJIVALDO just like russians coming back out of ukraine.. fantasy game
Well, technically torpedoes like that did exist. Although they didn't come around until the 1960's.
No destroyer in the world can dodge a Mk48 torpedo for very long.
There were homing torpedoes in WW2 as well, that homed in on the sound of a ship's engine and propellers.
That’s no more making me angry, i’m just so sad to see this game i had so much fun in being bucher like that
I'm right there with you. Five years and thousands of hours wasted on this game that I used to love.
WTF. These are like MK 48's. I guess they implemented torpedoes from 2023, but everything else is WWII/Cold War era. Solid balancing.
Ww2 naval game btw
I knew from the beginning of submarines that those "one turn" homing tops would end up being ADCAPs, only I thought it would be a Soviet sub to get them first
Since they're British.... Maybe closer to the Mk24 Tigerfish
@@firesb7791 same. I was like, " eventually, these things will turn around and chase you for next 10-15 mins and they will be fitted on an Alfa class"
They give subs/carriers modern things, but all the countermeasures we have against them are all ww2. There not gonna give us 2023 levels of AA/ASW :P
Ah yes subs hunting dds, how the tables have turned...
Man this is so depressing, and the fact that wg said this is fine, is just baffling.
About a month ago I finally got tilted enough to delete my WG account that I registered in 2015 due to CVs, subs, and forced 2-tier-difference matchmakings (rendering T9 ships unplayable). At first I had regrets, but thanks to your videos those feelings are quickly fading.
15K battles played, 700 EUR spent, 59.8% solo wr reached (too bad, i really wanted that 60, oh well). Rest in Hell.
no one cares.
You could've just sold your account, at least make some of that cash back
@@3men219 Who the fuck would buy a world of warships account lmao?
This is what will get people back, everyone will want to play this.
Would be great, think about selling my Account...started playing since the release...but now it is too much for me. Thank the lord I stopped spending money more than a year ago when Subs became a topic. This game and its "development" is a joke. Happy fantasy game. All the best WG. Once I am done I will never ever touch one of your F2P games again. waste of money
21:37 guided javelin missiles 💀
Sick gameplay WG created there. 10/10
I love how the hardest thing to counter a sub in is a dd's depth charges. Like in my Halland it shoots them out of the front so if I stupidly run over the MF I have no counter I have to completely turn around. I also love that the most dangerous thing for a sub in real life was a dd but in this game dds get hunted by subs.
Right? How about a depth charge has the potential of knocking out the ability to dive.
battleship is the real sub counter in this game
@@skarhabekgreyrukh8601 except when you only have a 4km range to drop charges on them.
@@Bane_Diesel 4 km is Cruiser range. Battleship is around 10km. Are you even play?
@@skarhabekgreyrukh8601 lower tier bb im talking about where new players don't know how to just dodge. I am human.
The more I see of subs and superships, the happier I am just relaxing in operations.
i just wish to have operation for sub ( no needing a freacking division)....
in the hinden game when the announcer said: "the battle begins!" only thing i could think of, it's only a batle if both sides stand a chance
Bruh this ship can literally create its own crossfire wtf
Damn, I wish my modern seeking missiles in War Thunder could track a target as well as these WW2 torpedos.
Ewww WT
Wish my AMRAAM BVR missiles in DCS were so effective
The only thing I can think is wargaming isn’t making enough keeping the game going but they can’t just shut it down because of the backlash they’d get from those who have already sunk so much time and money into it. Instead they are making the game so unplayable that people will voluntarily quit until they can say they have to shut it down due to an insufficient player base.
Well, this is a very good point. They have cashed enough, time to shut down.
I think they are still making a profit but the curve is flattened and they lost a ton of money divesting themselves from Russia. Although they might have skipped out on some loans if the Russian mafia couldn't find them. No their problem is people like me. I'm not buying premium time nor playing the game. And I'm not the only one. They need lots of people paying for premium time to keep the game going. They thought Submarines would be a huge source of revenue but that's not likely to be the case. For everyone who might buy a Premium Sub, when available, an other group of players, like me, will stop playing altogether. In the end I suspect Subs to be a net loss and given the shaky ground WG is standing upon then in two or three more quarters they might be in serious trouble if not bankrupt.
@@robertanderson6929 Plenty of Whales and degenerates both in Warships and Tanks to keep them going without caring about the playerbase
@@Sira_Kackavalj somebody needs to pad the server numbers to keep the game going. 3vs3 with a CV and 2 subs won't be fun even for a griefer.
They are doing perfectly fine, taifun-leader here with 65% - just quit the game ^^
Well I think it fits perfectly, since in 2023 WG/Lesta still thinks that people have to 1) suffer from some type of ship/mechanic, to 2) go and buy the same ship/mechanic to inflict suffering to others. Apparently just having fun and supporting the devs for making a good game to have fun in, is not an option. Apparently WG/Lesta know better, especially given the fact that online on falling for the past 5 years.
imagine doing all those turns to avoid a spam of torpedoes while being shot by a Yamato and company, xD
No idea what you were talking about, the Sub Player was clearly superior :D
The crosstorp against the Kiew :D
Based on testing results and community feedback, we have found the Just Dodge mechanic to be a blatant exploit at avoiding homing torpedoes, hindering submarine gameplay. Therefore: We have decided to sell a solution to this problem for all of our lovely sub players. Happy Hunting Captains!
Love,
Wargaming
That Kiev clip truly is a clip of all time
“A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.”
during ww2 attack a destroyer in a submarine was considered suicidal, in the thinking men’s action game a submarine can surface 500 mt in the port side of a yamato and eat a broadside without give a fuck
Destroyers were the natural predators of submarines, but in this game, they prey on DD's. I'm glad i stopped playing this shit a year ago.
1:32
"You arrogant ass. You've killed us!"
This is in my top 5 favorite Flamu vids of all time.
"The missile knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't."
It's longer than that, but you get the idea...
Now you can get crosstorped by the SAME submarine!
Some people are wondering ,,how thiss passed the testing?'' . I will give you a clue. WG removed ,,feedback'' section from CST DC entirely.
Nobody:
WoWs “torpedoes”: *Highway to the Danger Zone starts blasting in the background*
I haven't even thought about wows for months till flamu suddenly showed up in my YT recommended. I'm surprised you guys still play. Once you break the habit of logging in, eventually all the frustration and itch to play go away. Then you forget about the game entirely.
A former clan-mate sent me the link to this video. I see, stop playing was a good decision.
Last year I walked away from a 400-ship port, a year worth of premium time and abandoned the forums. Looking back I ca only shake my head to what WG has done to this game.
And thank you Flamu, I learned a lot from you back when the game was fun.
Extremely fun and engaging
Next patch WG is introducing LRAD to all ships. Each time you activate your horn it causes an extremely painful high pitched noise into your enemies earphones. HIGHLY effective against anything with hearing.
With this sub and torps we are progressing from "just dodge" to "just die". Seems reasonable in WoWs lately.
Best advert for a new premium ship ever! ;-)
2:44 5:55 21:35 These are certified Cold Waters moments. If this is a T8 British, imagine if WeeGee develops a Russian tree ending in a T11 Oscar-class with this homing BS.
Just to put a number on it, the minimum homing range for Alliance on Destroyers is 110m for a single ping and 70m for a double ping, on Cruisers it's 650m and 330m and for Battleships it's 900m and 750m. So add that to their extreme manoeuvrability and low reload and you get a full on WG moment.
Playerbase says remove homing torps. What does WeeGee do? New premium sub with enhanced homing.
True madness.
At this point they might as well give them wire-guided Mk48 adcaps. I mean, the pincer trickshot at the end is the kind of sht I do in Cold Waters with my Seawolf 🤣
That's exactly what they did. They only forgot to put the correct name on them.
OMG that cross drop on the Kiev needs to be clipped
IRIS-T. Misses but comes back and tries again
I will constantly rage quick once an Allinace enters battle.
Well tested and absolutely good for the game : )
I'm curious if the torps would follow you around an island?
Would love to see a game where you're commanding the sub against an entire team. Seems the sub might win! ;) That would show how OP it is.
I imagine the weegee discussion went something like this.
Weegee: Ok bois, we need new ships in the game......Go.
Underling: Submarines sir?
Weegee: I love it. Now, really blow my mind. How do they work?
Underling: Homing torps sir?
Weegee: Give that man a raise.
I'm glad to see the Ace Combat 04 version of the QAAM is now in boatgame.
I picture, one of these days, at WG-HQ, there’ll be that moment like from the one Terminator movie… where a VP reports to CEO Kislyi about cratered Player Numbers… CEO looks up…stares straight ahead, and says… “We have destroyed OURSELVES..!!?” 😂
I remember that the homing was supposed to stop at a certain distance from the targetted ship. Obviously this is no longer a thing
Just 60 meters for this POS. Way to kill the game, idiot WG.
True, but for DDs the homing-stop distance is about half the length of the DD. Something like 200 meters. Just submerge comrade.
@@AdamtheRed- Alliance specifically has improved homing which is around half the normal distance or better. With DDs 1 ping wont stop homing until 220m (normally 440m), with 2 pings it wont stop homing until 70m (normally 220m).
Sub is firing AIM-9 sidewinders....
Ah, yes... The Mk.48 ADCAP/CBASS, the torpedo system that won WW2...
thank god we the silent majority wanted this Kappa
makes me think that asw or depth charge could be act double as torpedo mitigation.
It should increase the survivability of DD against torpedoes especially when running away.
And maybe in halland, it can be used for offensive means since it shoots forward
I think u asked for homing missiles during super CV testing… well u have a sea missile here! 🤣🤣🤣
I think it wouldnt be so bad if they were closer to glass cannons. It would force the sub player to be very selective about who they choose to attack. Where to decide to set up attacks. The class is so strong, so a good route would be the glass cannon approach. If you get caught once. You're dead.
A sub was always a glass cannon, historically. They're slow and easily break down.
another nail in the coffin of this game
I wonder if torp travel is measured as the distance from the launch point or actual distance traveled?
When "just dodge" was too effective
this is a work of art
thanks Flamu, every now and then i think about playing the game, and your videos remind me why i stopped xD
I have a technique for dodging homing torps that is 100% guaranteed to work every time: uninstall and play a better game.
These are just Mk. 48 ADCAPs temporally displaced to WWII.
"The Torpedo knows where it is, because it knows where it isn't "
on the type XXI sub the torps stop homing at 2000M i did some testing in test battle and in real battle and torps stop homing between 2200 and 2000M from the target
this is what happens when WG decides that "Just Dodge" has become too effective
The torpedo knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't. By subtracting where it is from where it isn't, or where it isn't from where it is (whichever is greater), it obtains a difference, or deviation. The guidance subsystem uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive the torpedo from a position where it is to a position where it isn't, and arriving at a position where it wasn't, it now is. Consequently, the position where it is, is now the position that it wasn't, and it follows that the position that it was, is now the position that it isn't.
In the event that the position that it is in is not the position that it wasn't, the system has acquired a variation, the variation being the difference between where the torpedo is, and where it wasn't. If variation is considered to be a significant factor, it too may be corrected by the GEA. However, the torpedo must also know where it was.
The acoustic homing scenario works as follows. Because a variation has modified some of the information the torpedo has obtained, it is not sure just where it is. However, it is sure where it isn't, within reason, and it knows where it was. It now subtracts where it should be from where it wasn't, or vice-versa, and by differentiating this from the algebraic sum of where it shouldn't be, and where it was, it is able to obtain the deviation and its variation, which is called error.
People were joking about WeeGee adding missiles next, but it seems like they already have
Kiev: "JUST DODGE!? WHERE WILL I DODGE?"
why i cant shoot trigger the spotted torps like i can inc turrets and torp tubes?
I ran into an Alliance in the Hipper yesterday. Spotted him on the surface. Saw a wave of tops and managed to damage control the first ping, still ate a couple tops. What I didn't know was that he had launched those a while ago. Second ping came in along with another wave of torps. I couldn't do anything. It was more than enough to kill me.
30 second reload vs a minute plus for damage control. People complained about German sub torp spam but the U-190 has a 58 second reload, nearly double.
I don't know if anyone could do some testing if you can actually cross torp with these if you shoot half of them to the left and half to the right side.
I was already playing less and less over the past 6 months but I think this is the final nail in the coffin for me with this game. I loved this game but they are just killing all my will to play this game.
I think with this, is the basic form of homing missile in the future updates. Jeez
WG very optimistic that when I play Gouden I always have Hydro and DCP ready, already expecting the torps, and even then getting rekked because 60 second DCP reload time.
Against CVs, you can see them from far away and turn in to mitigate damage.
DD torps I can guesstimate their direction and juke their prediction.
Subs: homing, even with hydro can barely dodge if I know where they're coming from, also need to dcp to avoid torps damage, if I dpc and still eat a torp, I get a full duration flooding.
And on close range they can just pop up and shotgun if you aren't either full HP or a maneuverable DD...
Congratulations, Mk. 48 ADCAPs are now a thing in WOWS. I would say have fun but the only one having fun here is the sub
Hey @Flamu,
Did you notice what happened with current british subs event ? You cant buy economic bonuses for british sub tokens only flags and the number is only 2 of the same flags in bundle of 4 so you are getting 8 flags per 15 british sub tokens spend.This is typicall WG thing cuz in last sub event you could get eco bonuses for those tokens and I guess many player rather take eco bonuses for normal ships then some tech tree T6 and T8 subs together with perma camoes for them which u dont even see. Now u cant do that and you as a player are force to take those bundles with subs cuz in the middle packeges there is few K of coal with other valuables.This is so scamy cuz in every other early access event you can choose between bundles or getting eco bonuses chceck for example US Hibrid BBs event where for 15 tokens u can get 5 green bonuses which is way better then getting those sequntional bundles but with british sub you cant.Check it for yourslef and you will see how fkin scamy and wicked WG really is......
The torpedo knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't.
I just wanna see their Unicorn-proof Tutorial mission on "How to avoid Submarine Torps".
i wonder how the fastest and nimble CV would do with the auto asw
Clearly, fun is achieved with this boat.
Ah yesh, the hammer and anvil cross torp. Havent seen it since RTS CV days. Hello darkness my old friend.
What do Yuro saying. "Create crossfire of your own" Right ? Well, This abomination can do without the need of teammate
Same shit with Venezia... a ship that can be detected from orbit, depends exclusively on exhaust smoke to get close.. and that shit has standard rear mounted ASW.
The none guided torp are terrifying when you consider how fast you can reload those things , anything tier 8 get smashed and not in the way of one shot but they are basically done for at that point
and the irony is the biggest threat are actually BB's ASW (high damage), because if DD try to use their ASW , just shotgun them .
TY Flamu, that looked no fun at all! 🙏🙏
You need to do this with tier 6 ships that you see people playing - so Warspite, New Mex, Fuso, Pensacola, etc/ Try fast BBs to like Scharn, Gneis, and Bismarck.
Funniest thing i've seen in a long time , made me laugh out loud , WG tsk tsk tsk lol
Test this some more with islands this time
How were the torps outturning you and following your projected course in a turn if they were supposed to be tracking the stern of your ship where you got pinged?
it's just like dodging air-to-air missiles, except you are in a ww2 four-engine bomber and don't have countermeasures
I haven't played in while. What is this new sub, and are these torps specific to this sub? They aren't going to be rolled out to replace existing homing torps on other subs are they?
The Torpedo knows where it is because it knows where it isn’t