đ„ HEATED DEBATE: is Pep vs Klopp OVER?
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 17. 04. 2023
- The lads on The Kick Off debate Pep Guardiola's success compared to the other greats in world football. Is Pep Guardiola the best manager in the world?
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Pep managed Barca B and got them promoted before he got the Barca job. Also, if these top jobs are so easy, why do other managers not achieve the same level of success?
i was waiting for this. how come they missed barca B?
Fella Barca b team play in a professional league . Think itâs like the 3rd division he won . Barca obviously are able to accumulate the best young talent around the worldđž so itâs them coming up against the equivalent of Rochdale and Macclesfield of course he was going to do well. Hence the reason no one mentions thatđ
No one said top jobs are easy. That is not the argument.
Doing top jobs with non dominant teams is greater than doing top jobs with top teams. That is the argument.
@@joelgeorge3435 đđboth world class managers imo
Zidane three Champions league wins in a row is much greater success than Pep's done and Ancelotti got 4 without Messi too.
Klopp is still the last non-Bayern Munich manager to win the Bundesliga (twice in a row).
Klopp brought the League title to a club that hadn't won it in the last 30 years.
Klopp won the UCL title with a non league winning team while Pep hasn't done it with two league winners.
Klopp pushed against a side that had much more than twice his team's budget, winning the league once and finishing just 1 point behind twice.
It's true that Liverpool are sort of burnt out now, but Klopp is still my pick of the two.
Thank god Brian was in that room, else theyâd be having the most dumb conversation ever
Totally agree. I think I know where you are coming from.
His fault for getting these new panel members đ
Get a job bro
@@georgeb8679 ok lol
@@kyriacandro how's frustrated life? đđđđđ Loserpool fan?đđđđđ
Bro... They can't be compared because Klopp hasn't taken a winning team and had that pressure to improve it. And Pep hasn't rebuild any team from scratch and with a limited budget.
Pep took a team that had won the Champions League two seasons prior. Rijkaard brought Barcelona to the spotlight, Ronaldinho, Deco, etc.
Pep took them to another level
Pep took a trebble winning Bayern Munich and didn't take them to another level.
Pep took a City team that had won 2 titles in the last 4 seasons with two 2nd places. Pellegrini and Mancini were the ones that took City from bottom to the top.
Pep went in and spent as much as those two put together... and took them to another level.
Pep haven't done what Klopp did at Dortmund and at Liverpool. And Klopp hasn't done what Pep has done.
Pep has improved players, yes. Klopp too. Lewandowski, Gotze, Reus, Gundogan, Hummels, etc. Mané, Salah, Firmino, Trent, Robbo... bro, come on.
Besides, Klopp's Dortmund was the last team that took Bayern off their perch in Germany and won the EPL for Liverpool for the first time in 30 years. And has played 3 UCL finals in 5 years.
This guy comparing Liverpool's spending with City is plain dumb. Pep has spent twice as much as Klopp since coming in.
your argument falls short because by your logic NO MANAGER CAN EVER BE COMPARED TO EACH OTHER, because they never been in exact same situations. this is rather nonsensical, YOU CAN COMPARE the 2, and Klopp is less successful and it aint about the money or any other metric you stated, Pep has been successful at every club his been, and not just successful but dominated completely, Pep is the modern era version of Alex fergy.
there is no manager like Pep, and they all fall short of Pep big budget or not, Mourinho has had big budget, nowhere near Pep, Chelsea have give their managers big budgets, they get fired frequently, Man Utd have a big budget and no success, this argument of budget is null and void because we have seen, it takes more than buying expensive players to not only get at the top but stay there.
another thing you forget in your argument is that Pep spends big on the RIGHT PLAYERS and do not forget it took him 2 seasons to finally get going in City, he had to tinker and fix up that City side before he dominated, so that shows you its not about money.
Basically im saying you can compare Klopp to Pep same way we compare Fergie to Wenger, we compare Mourinho to everyone else. and Pep is superior to Klopp,
Well i guess United (or Chelsea) should won something i last 10 years with money they spent if it is like you say all about spending money.
Exactly, 2 managers on different paths so itâs not possible to decide whoâs best
@@BlackOxymoron That's exactly my point: Most managers can't be compared. Most do different work.
It has MORE many variables than when you compare individual players. No club has the same circumstances.
You really can say that fighting relegation with limited budget and limited quality of players is less hard than fighting for the title with all the resources available?
No, it's a lot of pressure and it involves different sets of skills
Pep himself has said so. Bielsa is one of his mentors, and look at Bielsa's career. Most managers regard him as one of the best, yet he chooses different paths. Some managers are cut out for different roles
Pep WON'T make Wolves play like City. He himself has said so, his style of play needs certain type of players. If he can't bring them in, he would have to adapt.
The argument of budget isn't null. You can have a budget and fail, because of scouting and bad planning. But you can have good scouting and plans and yet fall short without budget.
You can't compare Wegner and Fergie either.
And more to the point. It's about building a team from scratch. Getting a team of "losers" and a club with "loser mentaility" and transform them. Pep has never done that. And i'm not attacking Pep, it's just a reality. Arteta is trying to do it, and he has spent 3 times more than Klopp in the past 4 years, yet, it is hard, players don't know how to win. Conte took a Chelsea team that knew how to win, they had won things. He spent less money at Chelsea and won. Took over Spurs and spent more and we can all see the results.
@@basc5026 I am sorry, but what are you talking about? They are in same cups and leagues?
In my opinion I believe both a on a par. And it's genuinely down to the fact that I think both have differences in strengths. I believe Pep has his sides playing better football, but Klopp has made some bang average players look like absolute world beaters. I think if you got both managers to assemble a team of exactly what they want, it would be close but Pep probably edges it. And if you got both teams to assemble a team on a limited budget I think Klopp would edge it. Who I choose is completely down to either of those two circumstances, but even then, it's close. Even though I'm a Liverpool fan, I'm a big admirer of Pep and I don't actually care if people prefer him, but it's pure ignorance to ignore the brilliance of Klopp and make out he's not on that level, because he definitely is.
Klopp is clear. Every situation Pep has been in, heâs walked into ritches. Super Barca, Lewa Bayern, and now City.
@domonicdecoco2410 Unless we see the tables turned we will never know. But I can say that I wouldn't trade Klopp for Pep, and I highly doubt any Man City fan would trade Pep for Klopp. They are the perfect match for what each club has at its disposal. The argument is moot
Both great managers but people need to remember how bad Liverpool were when klopp took over. Not to mention what he did with Dortmund. City were winning titles before pep and they will win titles after pep. The same canât be said about Liverpool and klopp.
Pep built the best Barca team, one of the best Bayern, the best Man City of all time man come on
@@amino2311 peps amazing. I wouldn't say he's built those clubs tho, more like renovated them for the better
@@amino2311 Same it is for Klopp with him taking Mainz from bundesliga 2 to bundesliga, dortmund from 9th in the league to winning them a league and reaching a UCL final and liverpool in 8th to all they can win. I for once would love to see Pep take a midtable team to league titles and Klopp with a team which can get the best footballers money can buy to settle this debate.
They still only won one league though. Doesn't matter in the eyes of history.
Bro relax, Rogers was in charge before Klopp who had built a team just after coming second in the league đđđ stop pretending like Liverpool where in 20th
No point in comparing the two until Pep steps down to a team that needs a rebuild on a limited budget, or until FSG starts giving Klopp whatever he wants financially
You expect pep, a manager of a champion cadre to step down to a club which doesn't even compete in the CL?
Ask Klopp to do it, lets see if klopp can do it with FC Basel
And talking about finances ,whose sorry ass spent money on Mane, Salah, Van Dijk, Konate, Alisson, Diaz, Nunez, Jota.
Stop speaking of Finances, had klopp won the league without spending money, i would have appreciated him more, but he spent the money too, big time
â400m on forwardsâđđđ he needs to be held accountable for that
Hes clueless, works out about ÂŁ190M before add ons and about ÂŁ260M after
Fella is a clown
Pep 1 billion, Klopp 745 million! 250 million less stop pretending
@@highfiveentertainment298 i mean assuming that those numbers are right. Klopp was at Liverpool a season before, with 33% increase in the amount spent, with a better starting point, and city hiding money theyve spent. It all adds up
â150 million on 2 playersâ yes because they sold one for 140 million you dope
The other two guests donât get the financial situation at Liverpool and think klopp manages the funds đđđđ
They absolutely get it, they just have đ© for brains.
Klopp since summer of last season, along with Pep Leijnders has taken over the transfer dealings, from Michael Edwards who had left.
@@rajkaranvirk7525 how does that have anything to do with how much money he is able to spend?
@@arbazk2705 It doesnât the argument used was that Klopp has shown so far that he is âmisusingâ funds. On terrible players, Gakpo was signed for 50 million when you needed to save up to get bellingham? And you didnât even need a new attacker, they just happened to be injured. The same summer transfer window Klopp was saying he didnât need a midfielder(even though everyone and their grandma knew they needed one) In a few years youâll realize that it was Michael Edwards who had amazing recruitment not Klopp.
@@rajkaranvirk7525 klopp was told money was set aside for bellingham and pulled out the deal when he realised he can spend 150 million on more players rather than 1, but weâll see indeed pal
True geordie: Pep has spent over 1 billion pounds at Manchester city over 7 seasons and still hasn't won the champions league
Craig:How much was Alvarez tho .đđđ
Pepâs influence on football alone sets him apart from the others. He changed the way football was played in Spain Germany and the âbest league in the worldâ EPL. Players and understudy managers that were under pep are making strides to becoming great managers. Who else has done that apart from cruyff
Klopp has heavily influenced football with his heavy metal football
Sir Alex is the goat đ
Pep plays entertaining football but give Klopp the City team he inherited and tell me he doesn't change the landscape of the game. Plus he creates managers? Arteta just bottled the EPL and Kompany just started as a coach and he was a player not under his coaching staff. RIDICULOUS!
â@@samkelorashuza5949đđđđ
Klopp basically changed the pressing system of football
The debate should be who's more insufferable, Marvin or Craig?
def marvin
The fact that Klopp hasn't been able to rebuild due to the lack of transfer budget says it all. If he'd had unlimited funds like Pep has, then Liverpool wouldn't be in the situation they are now with the midfield no longer having the legs and all aging out. We would already have Bellingham and other top young players in to replace them. Pep has been playing Football Manager with unlimited funds turned on for his whole career... And if you've ever tried that you'll know it makes things a whole lot easier to win.
Whoâs fault is that? Man went and bought 4 forwards when he needed a midfield man misjudged it all.. shows what it is.. no one should have to tell him, is he blind? All the scouse fans was screaming for a new midfield man went and spent on forwards đđ
@@z3dda Yeah we should have prioritised midfielders over forwards. But again Pep and Man City wouldn't have to pick one or the other, they could just do both.
Having loads of money and buying players, is no gurantee of success, just look back at Real Madrid`s history with the failed galacticos project, current day Chelsea, and current day Liverpool. So simply assuming that throwing money at something will make it go away.
Itâs easy for these clowns to talk, however if it was their club and their money, youâd have to look at return on investment, then tell me who is worth having Klopp or Pep.
Itâs easy to just say things with no knowledge of business or football. Itâs wild anyone with any common sense would pick pep over Klopp. Klopp out here making miracles with the likes of Origi and Shaqiri while pep scratching his head.
@@z3dda Liverpool have never been a club that will just sign someone because they need a player in that position, they have shortlists of players they want. Gakpo and Diaz were on their shortlists and became available in separate January's. Their two major midfield targets have fallen through due to one choosing Madrid, and not having the money available for the other. I'm not saying I necessarily agree with the approach, but imagine we didn't replace Mane with Diaz, or we didn't go for Gakpo to replace Firmino. Liverpool had the best front 3 in world football for several years, and to not replace them would've created even more backlash than what is currently occurring from the fans.
For once truegeordie is right. For example VVD AND ALISSON were bought with countinho money that cost Liverpool 3.5 mil.
exactly. Pep was never in this spot, i can't imagine someone saying ok you can get Ederson and Stones, just sell KDB
Ok, well spent, And what about all other transfers after that? Except Diaz he will be good.
@@dejansokoloski7270 I can't imagine Klopp letting go one of the best full backs on loan in the midle of the season to rival in CL, or saying to Yaya thank you legend but my way or highway, or Aguero or Sancho - bright engl talent. They all make hard decision but what come of it is what they are judge by.
How much did Kompany cost?
Did it come out last summer all that money has still not be paid to liverpool ,so they actually spend their own money on the promise of getting it back someday ,,point is net spend looks good on books and is something to beat others fans with but in reality Liverpool like all big club spend big
Personally I feel klopp loves having the "underdog" status. That is his identity as a manager
yeah kind of,,i think he has to be attracted to the job and the money available doesnt really come in to his decision making when considering if hes going to take it or not,,,,klopp could easily of got jobs with bayern,madrid or united where he would of won a lot more
He's not though, compared to Pep yes, but in general no. Hasn't been for a long time.
@@StillAwesome21 Dortmund and Mainz
@@dada41954 even liverpool which was a mid table team
Sure is working well for himđ
Literally nothing Marvin said made sense in this clip
Ridiculous to compare the paths taken by these coaches. One started with a winning team with a bottomless pocket and the other took a dead team with no budget. Come on man!
Hold on, what did people actually say when Liverpool signed Salah? No one thought he would be a superstar including Liverpool fans.
We were told he was a Chelsea reject đ€·đŸââïž
"One season wonder" (lots of evidence for this prediction from a lot of people) and now its "oh he had salah". Typical.
Facts
These guys are jokeman for the shot they say
Itâs impossible to compare them. I personally am more impressed by Klopps jobb at Liverpool than Peps job at City, but both have done brilliantly.
And btw, «400m in attackers» is horseshit. Itâs about 200m spent over 8 years (Firmino in 2015, Salah in 2017, Jota in 2020, Diaz and Nunez in 2022 and Gakpo in 2023). The fact that Pep can make a 50m flop signing in Phillips with zero repercussions tells a lot.
Why is Phillips flop? Guy needs time like many others who came to City. Grealish was flop last season.
@@ThomDull might not be a flop but 50 million quid for someone who obvs isnât good enough to even get a sniff is a waste of money; for now.
What is this Arsenals fanâs problem with Klopp? I bet when it comes to Arteta, he gets over excited about Artetaâs ability and goes on and on about him. Klopp has achieved it all at LFC and on a fraction of the budget Pep has. Watch there be a Pep vs Arteta debate be done in a year or two and this Arsenal fan will back Arteta to the hilt when heâs nowhere near the levels of Kloppbor Pep.
Arteta got 150M
Klopp got 800M+
@@omaralkayal7598 klopp got 800 mil last summer ?? whaaaaaa
0:46 WTF is Brian going on about Roy Hodgson for? He'd left 5 years before Klopp became Liverpool manager? Clueless
Klopp is clear of Guardiola itâs not even a debate , pep did great at barca bcz of the players even then he had some questionable defeats there especially in UCL failed at Bayern & spent 1B in City to win the same things that managers like mancini won
I think Pep is a greater tactician than Klopp but there's no better man-manager in football than Jurgen. Context matters in terms of achievement; yes, Liverpool spent 142 million on a keeper and a centre half but only because Coutinho. The argument that Liverpool have spent less is not that they haven't spent anything. The fact that Klopp has been able to consistently push and, at the time of writing, have a more varied trophy haul than Guardiola's City, is an achievement in itself. Regardless of who you think's better, it is undeniable that this is an era of a great Premier League rivalry. I mean, just look at the head 2 head.
how is he a better manager when his teams repeatedly burn out
Ancelloti is the best man manager in football. Bayern is a blip in a long career, but looking at how he's turned camavinga into a left back and maintained the team together despite the league running and going deep into the champions league again, he's that guy
Give Pep the current Liverpool squad and heâll definitely do better than what Klopp is doing right now.
â@Jorge Rivera-Mota Ancellotti didn't make the players play any better than they were. He just managed them as in played them in a more complementary way.
Benzema, Moriches, Kroos, Vini were already at their heights before he came. He just made them work more cohesively.
@@superguy1230 give klopp any of peps ManC teams and arguably Bayern and he has a few more champions leagues to his name
It's crazy we forget that Pep won the league playing without a regular striker and just did it after kicking both his LBs out... Pep is out of this world, take it or leave it. How many of you were rooting for Cancelo when Pep took him up. Journalists were writing about how Rodri was a failed Pep signing just two seasons ago. Pep refused to overpay for Sanchez, Maguire, Cucurella...
When having this debate I always look at this way, if pep became lfc manager instead of klopp and had to work on the same budget starting with the same squad would he have done better or worse
The same argument could be made the other way round too, just because you have all these resources doesnât mean you can make the most of them. There are plenty of managers that make the step up in terms of player quality but canât get the best out of them.
@@michaelcapper9019 klopp would have done just fine with Billions.
@Michael Capper and this is my point if the argument was reversed I can guarantee now klopp would have done just as good if not better than pep
@@michaelcapper9019 That's dumb, you're saying having less money makes your job easier - so why is Klopp asking for money now? Completely counter to logic
@@spinach-colour-joey6776 no Iâm saying just having more money doesnât mean he would have done better is not always true. Yes he could have done more with more money but thatâs not guaranteed.
Remember Brian Clough. Did it with Derby and Forest.
Different time lol, he also took Forest down and look at them now.
â@@StillAwesome21 he also won back to back European cups and knocked Liverpool off their perch for a while
Pep is the football genius! And Klopp is an incredible man manager
Not so great this season.
A genius with ÂŁ2billon đ
Switched off when Geordie said Phillips was 50m. He was 42m but as usual, he never does any research and lies to suit his narrative. Itâs no wonder everyoneâs ditched him.
if it was Klopp who signed him, he'd be saying he's 30m
Pepâs Barca under investigation for paying refs, Pepâs city under investigation for financial dopingâŠ
You're investigation is done for being a crying muppet. Verdict, guilty
So a dope đđđ
Your mother is under investigation for having sex with Pep đ
Oh my
đŹ
When they have the same budged go compare until then Klopp did more
based on what evidence?
Craig said take away the nuances... face palm
Imagine a manager needing players to win trophies
This conversation actually annoyed me because of the sheer stupidity of the two guys speaking against Brian, Klopp had spent less but FSG only lets him spend when they realise that the team is down to the barebones with players ageing or big time injuries etc whereas with Pep walked into to a star studded team and can ease players into his system a season before they even get game time and everyone he signs isn't a risk they're all players everyone knows is good, where Liverpool have to take more risks in the market and try find a diamond in the rough... both unbelievable managers and pep tactically is the best but I don't think he can get the best out of lower quality players and klopp can through motivation and the tactic he deploys because it stems off hard work
Well when Pep came to City they where aging team. Ok, i agree that team was full of good players who won something. But when he came he didn't give a f*** who won what and who is who. He deployed his system and get rid of alot of players who were elite but weren't able to coupe with his management. And then he bring in some young unknown guns and done it his way. To do that it takes big cojones and to be genius.
@@ThomDull lmao lay off the crack bro.
@@ThomDull That's such bullshit - you're writing this as a narrative to purposely ignore the fact that Pep inherited a title winning a team and then was able to over time change out players with a gigantic budget - Klopp had to get a group which consisted of many average players and then use a significantly smaller budget to bring in players.
Pretending that taking a team which won the title adding a billion and then them doing the exact same as being a genius is delusional as someone can be.
@@TheBenj30 this is so tiring. Even if Pep wins 5 CL in a row it would not change your mind even a mm. You will think that Klopp is better manager no matter what facts are saying bcs EVIL Pep have all the money in the world and poor and alone left in the rain Jurgen Twist did it against the all odds. Jfc grow up Liverpool have money, Liverpool bought players but he didn't get from them what he expected.
â@@ThomDull You're arguing against your own opinion at this point.
Firstly, Klopp didn't get out of his players want he expected? He took a team of average players, at a significantly smaller budget than Pep and then won every single possible trophy that was available to him - he took a player that people called a Chelsea reject and has made him a repeated golden boot winner, he took an academy right back and made him one of the best assisters in the league despite being a defender, he bought a left back for a few million and has arguably made him one of the best LB's in the history of the game.
His players didn't work out - you haven't got a clue what you're talking about, don't get all whiney and salty and tell me to grow up because you can't make a legitimate point.
As for the 5 Champions League in a row, what a stupid point - you're fabricating a scenario that is unheard of to justify your opinion of a manager that couldn't even win it once with over a billion spent on an already Premier League winning squad, you justify this poor performance in European football by creating this image in your head of a Pep who has won 5 UCL in a row when he couldn't even win one - how lost for legitimate arguments are you, where you have to justify his quality by pretending he won stuff with Man City that he didn't.
Pep has changed how football is played across the world. Split centr back and tiki taka and all that. He then came to England where everyone said you can't play like that in the Premier League and he did it. So much so that many clubs try to play like Pep's team.
Not to mention that he manages the egos of this big players, which is a whole other thing.
I think he does not get enough credit for it
He didnât change football at all. Heâs literally just copied and pasted everything he learned from Cruyff and used it with bigger and better teams and players. Pep is an egotistical little man whoâs afraid of the slightest of criticism, hence why heâs stayed at City for so long to try and prove his critics wrong, which he still hasnât. He will always be the most criticised manager in history, and deservedly so.
No one's talking about City's potential treble because no one cares about them doing it. Pep's greatest season at City was the domestic treble and it's never mentioned by anyone.
nobody in your echo chamber.
â@@ThomDull no one other than man city "fans" cares what man city does, it's all hollow, bought not earned.
â@@ThomDull if ours is a chamber then yours is an air pocket
@@nichobee jeeez
Yet here you are talking about it how odd
I use to love this show but now a lot of people come on here and make points without knowing what the situation was, Liverpool HAD to buy Gakpo, their forward line was massively injured after the world cup because Jota was still out Diaz was supposed to be back but got injured again in training, and Firmino got injured, leaving them with just Nunez and Salah as the only forwards which isnât nearly enough considering they had to deal with those injuries up until about late February, if they donât sign Gakpo it would be way worse than what it is now, plus Firmino was getting old and there was already a feeling he would leave in the summer so it was also good for them to revamp the forward line by adding Gakpo
And again about the Pep Klopp debate, both are all time great managers, Pep has way more league titles than Klopp but rightfully so heâs been at the biggest clubs everywhere heâs worked at and has had a lot to work with, he came to city with Kdb, Toure, Aguero, Sterling, Kompany and a lot of other good players, Klopp came to Liverpool and the best player he had was a young Coutinho and he still made it work
From 2018 when Klopp reached the UCL final heâs reached the final twice since then and only missed out of either a disastrous season like 20-21 ans 2022-23, and 1 shock defeat by Atletico, plus the two finals he lost were against 2 incredible madrid sides the one of 2018 with a prime Cristiano ronaldo and the comeback kings of 2022 with a ballon dor winning Benzema, Pep has just 1 final to his name since 2011 and it was against a good chelsea side, not great and he still couldnât beat em, I think theyâre equal and donât really think one is way better than the other, but if any I give the edge to Klopp, itâs slight margins otherwise Klopp would have 3 league titles because 2019 and 2022 could have gone either way and weâd be having a very different conversation
Tends to be when klopp hasn't got bedsheet money. Cannot listen to people around a table who have the football knowledge of an Ant.
Is Raineri a better manager than Klopp because Klopp spent way more, but they have the same amount of PL titles?
So where is renieri's UCL?
If we use Liverpool fan logic, and klopp defender logic, yes.
â@@MemphisGoar raineri is a better premier League manager than klopp, look at his team and budget. See how silly it is when we use the money argument.
â@@funnyfuse3869 Is he a better manager? Has Ranieri ever come close to another title or at least top 4?
@@samkelorashuza5949 better premier League manager yes, overall no. Raineri has the same number of titles as klopp with a far inferior budget, team and wage bill. 5000/1. You see how silly it is? Pep is better than klopp, end of.
PEP is a GENIUS manager best in the world even klopp will say the same.
I mean... as the comments say. Klopp will always be the better manager. sure pep has won more trophies but look at how he's done it. he inherited the teams/money which if each season he slightly underperformed he could fix those problems easy. klopp has went into teams with limited money and broken teams and made them go onto win big and better things look at mainz. I think if pep went to leeds he would probably stress and quit after 2 seasons. Klopp when he has off seasons he's unlikely able to fix them in a window straight away. he has to take time and make enough money to fix the important problems
In terms of Premier league achievements, Klopp is exactly as good a manager as Claudio Ranieri.
@Ty Carne going by your logic most managers are like him because pep has been dominating the prem since he joined.
That comparison means nothing
Pep inherent aging team thta didn't won PL for two years. He sold most of them or incorporated in new system. When you talk about L'pool they are for decades in the top of PL league. You can't tell me that they were buying 2nd tier players for decades. So, L'pool had good players and good academy players for decades. This ridiculous argument that Pep should go to a "smaller" team prove himself is just bonkers.
I'd like to know why Peps disciples Arteta Kompany Xabi Alonso Xavi can do a lot with less why can't Pep?
I love Marvin but he has a howler today
he is one big howler
Agree with True Geordie, itâs like F1, if you have the best car because of money you clearly have an advantage even if talent is equal. (Not to mention that money wrecked the league balance)
Pep has been manager of the favorites to win the champions league 10 out of the last 11 seasons (back to Bayern days) and hasnât won a single one. Then his team goes out and spends 100 mil every summer
You see you are context to this discussion and people donât like when you do that
Pep has had about 300 odd mil more in net spend than kloop at Liverpool. It's always helped by the fact Liverpool managed to sell Coutino for 140 mil and city always have to pay a premium to get any players.
And then compare the squad right now. Liverpool needs a full rebuild where as City can go with this squad slowly rebuilding and winning at the same time.
To me personally what Klopp has done with that Liverpool side has been far more impressive than what Pep has done with City. I don't see how a team can be praised hailed so much with no European cup and massive let downs in said tournament. Imo give Klopp that budget and he's dominating no doubt in my mind
i disagree. You are talking about Livepool like it's a mediocre club without history of top premier league footballers.
@@ThomDull I'm not sure how I'm saying that, all I'm referring to is what each manager has done
Graham Potter did a better job at Brighton than at Chelsea with lots of money, maybe Klopp is more suited to working at a club that needs a major rebuild
@@rohithraman6488 tbf Liverpool is needing a bit of a rebuild again atm haha. He's definitely the man I'd back to get them on track again
@@bats5972 How can you prove what would Klopp win this or that amount of money? How is that measurable? If you are referring to what each manager have done based on evidence (trophys, wins, goals...) then you are reading things upside down. Pep has inspired many today's elite manager all over the world and England. He changed the way of playing football in the country.
Neither one is anywhere near finished. So the rivalry continues as far as Iâm concerned đ€·đœââïž That being said, although I prefer Pepâs tactics. True Geordieâs point about Klopp doing more(or at least as much) with less does linger in the mindđ€
De Zerbi is doing more at Brighton with less budget than Liverpool, and Chelsea... If that's what "lingers" in your mind.
@@demeoo you know, I thought if I gave it some time I would cool off. However, I still want too linger on your jaw bone. A, Brighton are 7th what the fuck are you on about. B, yes the fact that has Klopp has accomplished just as much if not more, with a relatively significantly smaller budget is what lingers in my mind. Pep put forgiatoâs on a Ferrari. While klopp refurbished a rusty 67 impala ss with no block, on bricks. Itâs impressive đ€·đœââïž
If pep can win a European trophy with Aberdeen Iâll say heâs the best until then he can carry on spending 100s of millions to dope their way to trophies
Pep beat SAF United twice.
The ÂŁ400 million on forwards is a terrible lack of research for a football show. Salah ÂŁ35 mil, Firmino ÂŁ29 mil, Jota ÂŁ41 mil, Gakpo ÂŁ40 mil, NĂșñez ÂŁ64 mil, Diaz ÂŁ37.5 mil which is ÂŁ246.5 mil since Firmino joined in 2015 so an average of ÂŁ30 mil a season spent on a forward since the first of those was signed. Klopp has always managed on a budget, he hasnât always got it spot on but when we make a costly mistake it takes a couple of years to put it right.
People saying Liverpool spent on van dijk and alisson like fsg gave him money. We sold Coutinho our best player at that time to get that money.
No manager in history has had the resources Pep has had available to him at city. Itâs not just money to spend on players, the entire organisation is primed for success with unlimited funds. And he still hasnât won the champions league.
United doesn't have resources, Chelsea doesn't have resources, Liverpool, Arsenal, Totenham. This is such a bullshit. City organisation is a well oiled machine and that is good thing not something you should point your finger and say "wtf is that how is that possible?".
Exactly and that is a massive failure on Pep's part that people just fail to acknowledge.
@@Jansk1h explain me logic behind this construction
Pep has 3 champions leagues
Guy mentioned gerrard in the conversation of Messi
And it also had no relevance, if anyone actually explored it. Gerrard won every trophy available to him, except the PL and he was on the verge of winning that 3 or 4 times anyway (slip season, with rafa, 2001).
Many managers go to the best clubs with the best players and still fail
Why do people keep saying this retarded opinion? You are tryng to make an argument that Pep Guardiola is the greatest but you are using points to argue he is a world class manager. Why? World class managers succeed with world class players but world class managers don't always get so many world class players as Guardiola
Literally nobody is saying Pep isn't a true great. The facts are that Klopp has had to operate with smaller budgets than Pep and put up with teams poaching his best players. Pep can keep refreshing his side easily, he has unlimited funds FFS. Klopp has to make signings where he can. He's also not helped by players who are more injured than they are available.
Fergie beat Real Madrid with Aberdeen, donât try and put Pep on his level hahaha
You are aware in those days only one team from each (UEFA) country could play in european cups?
That sir Alex slander is awful pep will never compare to fergie ever facts
Peps Barcelona: Cheats! Bribed refs!
Peps Bayern: Farmers league, not difficult to win league with Bayern. Peps Man City: Cheats! Broke FFP rules over 100 times. What has Pep actually achieved?
Hahahahahaha....
@@ThomDull Don't think I didn't notice you avoided the question đ
@@deancena Bcs it's trolling of highest order. And it's funny
If Pep came to United instead of City after Alex Ferguson left, then I would put him as the best manager of all time. Yes, he would get resources, but United were (and arguably still) in a mess after Gill and AF left. Seeing Pep doing a rebuild instead of walking into a top-tier Man City team (which he has improved, tbf).
Pep would have lasted 2 years max before he just got sick of dealing with the Glazers and left
Why are these guys acting like Salah ,VVD , Allison etc where at their UCL and premier league winning form before joining Liverpool đ
got to say I am with Brian here, Man City can buy whatever they want. Pep was allowed to waste obscene amounts of money of defenders. Does anyone remember 2016 City were shocking and he had an insane squad he got obscene amounts of money and Klopp doesn't have the same funding and basically got points totals that would win the league in nearly every other season.
History won't be kind to Klopp it's not his fault Klopp needs to go to a club that would give him the funds.
Marvin, let me guess... Drogba didn't win the Ballon d'Or because he was black?
Absolutely bang on always brings it back to that
drogba didnât win the ballon dor because he wasnât the best player simple
@@danieljohnson9995 to be fair there wasn't any shame in that, he finished behind Kaka, Ronaldo and messi
Those two guys in the middle are incredibly dense. Pep could never achieve what Klopp did, with the same resources. It's crazy how comfortable they are, to be that disrespectful.
klopp is a small yes manager
@@jimmyjamescomputers8585 And yet he's accomplished more in 7 years, than you ever will in 10 life times.
Klopp ainât in pep level tho thatâs a fact
@@xphantom1177 No, that's what you call an opinion.
Glad i stopped watching this rubbish after last year. Someone needs to tell these guys that being louder or shouting doesn't make you right. Brian coming out with valid points. Give Pep & Klopp the same budget, Jurgen wins hands down
How can you know this? This is such a strange presumption
@@ThomDull and its not like klopp hasnât spent money, theyve spent a lot
Money... with the context that the pl is the richest league, Liverpool has spent just as much, and its a no brained pep is better than klopp. People love stories, but this Liverpool team has had like 3 good seasons, and the amount of success varies.
You stopped watching yet here you are ..
â@@L_KayLiverpool have spent nowhere near as much as man City
Absolute donuts sir Alex Ferguson was with man United for nearly 3 decades won 13 premier league titles had to build up around 5 different squads because he was there so long treble in 99 + 3 peat twice and the craziest thing about it is none of those awards are his greatest accomplishment he won the league with Aberdeen the last team in Scotland to win it apart from rangers and Celtic and won the cup winners cup against Real Madrid becoming the only team to beat Real Madrid in a European final imagine that Aberdeen hold that title because of Alex Ferguson pep couldnât get a sniff of what heâs made of to mention them in the same breath seems disrespectful and for further context Iâm a rangers fan and we arenât too keen on him but I canât listen to that spurs fan talk so much nonsense
Players win Champions Leagues, systems AND players win you leagues.
Klopp brought two clubs back to the top of European football from being in the dark
These young arrogant fans should look up a former manager of Liverpool, Bob Paisley. The trophies he picked up in his time at the club, is staggering. Legend.
Klopp achievement is definitely more impressive and I do think Pep has been fortunate with decisions at times to win some of the trophies he has won at City
Pep has won a domestic treble, traditional treble and 3 premier leagues in a row but one covid title for Klopp and his achievement is better, get real man
Marvin trying to drop yet another racial critique in, tell me when drogba ever deserved to win a balon dor ffs đ€Šđ»ââïž
Guardiola has managed Barcelona, Bayern Munich and Man City... 3 of the easiest jobs in football management because of recourses and club prestige. Why does no one ever talk about this?
U forgot to mention unlimited spending power huge bank account also ffp into hiding
This just ridiculous. Football is not basketball.
Guardiola lost games in CL that any other high level manager would won with the teams he managed. He lost in CL with Bayern against Atletico Madrid and with City against Lyon and Chelsea, also with both teams he lost against Real, who destroyed his Bayern 4:0 in Munich
Barca was fourth before Pep came, that job was not easy. All he had was credit from his time in Barca B, wow so great!. Bayern job is easy, but they don't have unlimited cash. He only ever broke the bank at City. Context is important, but all you guys' argument is linked to big clubs and names. Mention that part too.
what an absolutely stupid comment
Love this line up of hosts all pull points out but never agreeing on something after đ€ŁđđŒ
When performing analysis you need to look at the nuances. And due to those nuances the gap between Pep and Klopp is microscopic, no matter who you rate higher.
It's 23 points. How is that microscopic?
@@ThomDull what was it in UCL titles since joining there current teams?
Exactly if you can't have nuances what's the point of debating anything, everything is Black and white then. What a stupid thing to say.
Peps B team is a top 4 team, this comparison is ridiculous when city keep buying top players with oil money and Liverpool's owners can't spend the same way. Both managers are at the top of their game but when you buy all the best players its unfair to compare managers
klopp could easily of got jobs with bayern,madrid or united where he would of had a lot more money to spend and won a lot more trophies,,but those type of jobs/clubs dont appeal to him
How can you know this?
@@ThomDull Hes literally said it
@@NLGNATHAN Well Klopp said that Pep is the best manager in the world. and not just him btw.
@@ThomDull of course he would say that... he's not gonna come out and says I'm the best.
@@NLGNATHAN ok, you think he doesn't do it bcs he (Klopp) is humble or something, and he says Pep is the best why? Why doesn't he say that about Eddie Howe or idk someone else. Why Pep? Or why anyone?
Mourinho had all the money in the world managing a Real Madrid superteam with Ronaldo, Benzema, Ozil, Ramos, Casilla, Di Maria etc and kept getting totally spanked multiple times by a newly promoted Pep who built the greatest team of all time by promoting players like busquets from barcelona b.
Klopp even managed Dortmund to a domestic Double & Back to back league titles against a much superior Bayern Munich team
Man said Klopp took over Hodgson's team who was sacked nearly 5 years before Klopp came in đ
Heâs obviously talking about the fact that he had remains of the hodgson era players still lingering about the club ya tool đ
That guy with the bald head doesnât have a clue about football; the statistics he was using about Nunez price etc were completely false
"Remember to keep comments respectful":
Without Brian this show would have been horrendous. No knowledge at all.
Klopp hasnt had a team that abused financial fair play. Klopp has had to earn and create money through tournaments and player sales. Klopps been to 3 champions league finals, Peps been to 1. Klopp inherited a worse team. Klopps had less depth. Klopps spent half the money. When Klopps team is in a bad spot he has to carefully manoeuvre his way out, pep just signs a new handful of players and boom problem solved. Peps had luxuries that Klopp doesn't get.
Guardiola is the GOAT but Klopp doesnât have the same budget as him at Liverpool so heâs far more likely to have off-seasons.
yup Pep is the GOAT
Budget? He spent a fucking 800 Million or something at Liverpool
GOAT? Are you R Worded? There are at least 3 managers ahead of him
â@@KevinDaGalera Ancelloti, Zidane, Ferguson, Wenger. All of them are at least better than him/ have won more.
@@Yoyo-sy5kl So true
Geordie saying winning doesnât mean as much with money. I dont see that reflecting this season when they went from relegation threatened to CL qualification contenders.
if all your team needed is world class players then PSG should have been winning atleast last 2 Champions leagues. Messi(Arguably the best of all time), Neymar and Mbappe (possibly the best at the moment). Pep is a Genius and at the end of his carrier will go down as the GOAT of football managers.
Barcelona was filled with the Spain squad, that won 2 Euros and a world cup, Bayen have won the past 10 league titles and man city spends millions every year....
Pep is a great manager but for Pep to be successful he needs the best players. If Klopp went to Madrid or Bayen it wouldn't even be close between him and Pep
People really forget what Pep did with that Barcelona team. Created arguably the greatest club team in the history of the game with the majority of the team coming from La Masia (where he was before taking the manager role) and he made them into monsters.
He had prime Iniesta Xavi and Messi for fucks sake. He's always had the best squad in the league with unlimited budget. He hasn't built a thing, he's always come in to already established succesfull teams and then thrown millions on top to make them even more overpowered. He's the definition of a chequebook manager.
Iniesta was not in his prime when pep took over. Don't come with limited ball knowledge. Check his starting 11 at barca and tell me how much this 'chequebook manager' spent
@@AlphaPacino-fb3wz he was like 2 years away from winning a world cup so I think that probably is close enough to his prime for most people
Started on third base and gets excited when he hits a home run comes to mind.
My guys, he's spent like a billion more than Klopp since 2012.
Be serious.
Guardiola is the GOAT.
â@@SlimClipper he's a fantastic manager. But you can't deny he's walked into monster teams everywhere he's been.
man city squad when pep joines was old and only had a few good players and pep turned it around with smart young signings not big nnames and made them the best prem team in 2 seasons
@@wesleylang172 Barca was fourth before Pep came lol, what monster team? Busquets played in the B team and Pep managed Barca B, not exactly the biggest credentials. Pep made them world beaters. Only world team was Bayern. City was good, but he had to overhaul the squad a lot, remember he finished fourth or third his first season.
â@@StillAwesome21 this is again crazy talk.
The 2008/09 side was.
Victor valdes
Dani alves
Abidal
Puyol
Pique
Xavi
Yaya t
Iniesta
Eto
Messi MESSSSSSI
Henry
2004 - 2nd
2005-1st
2006- 1st & CL
2007-2nd
2008- 3rd CL semi
2009 - Pep 1st and CL
What part of this is not a dominant team?
Every single time a Pep vs Klopp debate comes up it devolves into, "well Pep spent more!" Then when it is rightfully pointed out that Liverpool were still one of the highest spending clubs in the world too, they jump straight to net spend to disregard the argument. You can not judge one person on spending and the other only on net spending. Be consistent. It is always ignored the insane amount of players Pep has sold and how much money that brought in. In net spend over the last few years, they are below Liverpool. They are 10th in the league over the last 5 years. I do not understand how this is always ignored. "Oh but he had to buy Haaland. Klopp used the Coutinho money to buy Van Dijk and Alisson so it doesn't really count." Pep sold 3 players for over 120 million the same year he bought Haaland for only 60. If you think Klopp is better, that is fine. They are close to each other. Just be consistent with the argument. Hold them to the same standard. Either you care about pure money spent, or net spend. You can not pick and choose and still have a valid argument.
I like how you sugarcoated the period to just fall short of selling coutinho đđđ. Thought we wont realise đđđ
@The Dunya done ya I picked the window when Liverpool actually started challenging City for titles, which was the 18/19 season. Before that they only finished fourth. This also excluded the Van Dijk transfer. Even in the window I gave, which is the most relevant, Liverpool were only 9th in net spend. My point was in recent years City and Liverpool have been very close in net spending, yet City have maintained their level with higher turnover while Liverpool have drastically fallen. Based off of that it is hard for me to say Klopp would do just as well as Pep if given the money.
I even said in that comment though, if you still think Klopp is better, that is fine. They are close to each other either way you prefer. It is just frustrating when they are constantly compared on separate metrics to favor one over the other. Compare them in the same categories.
@@lilBabyJesus2112 why City keeps losing the argument is because Liverpool are an English establishment club, only them and United are in that level. I'd never give credit to any coach bringing them back to their glory days because they have significantly more fans and sympathizers in the media and everywhere from more strategic ownership to simply people that can make better deals. The likes of City don't have that, we don't even have half the following and status as Utd & Liverpool and they never fail to remind us that we're actually a small club but Pep came to an actual small club to prove a point..not to establishment clubs like Barca & Real in Spain, Bayern & Dortmund in Germany, Porto & Benfica in Portugal or Utd & Liverpool. It's unpopular but I believe anybody can get an establishment club to win again, they have a more important backing than money.
For pep's style to work , he needs the best players .. pep is naturaly drawn towards the best players , klopp doesn't really enjoy having the best players because perhaps he feels its a huge advantage over others .....
Going by this season you have to give it to Pep. He has changed City's system to accomodate the changing squad, instead of making them do the exact same thing as before. Being adaptable is a key trait managers have to have to stay at the top otherwise they get found out. Klopp's failure to adapt his system for the changes his team went through in the Summer is a big reason why Liverpool dropped off so much this season.
How is he supposed to adapt when he has the worst midfield of the top 10(current pl placements).
Every season Pep keep coming up with different type of play and other learn, problem with Klopp is that heâs playing the same pattern since he came to England and teams have found him out. Good for him heâs learning from Pep, now Arnold is playing midfield role just like John stones, Cancelo and walker for Man City.
If Liverpool backed Klopp like how Pep is backed at City weâll be witnessing something similar to prime Barca vs Prime Realđ
It's Peps fault that Klopp plays a winger at RB who gets found out every time a competent winger goes against him
@@Itz_Hawks Peps spent double Klopp, my brain tells me that extra cash/better players gets Liverpool over the line in most seasons.
@@TheChromeZebra It doesn't work that way. you have numerous examples in PL right now. just look at the table. Arsenal is first and Chelsea is 11th. Who spent, what?
@@Itz_Hawks pep literally played Joao, a winger, at full back.
@@ethanmccarty3293 and as you've seen joao is a more capable full back than Trent is, of those two one of them looks like a natural full back and the other doesn't.
Kloop and pep isnât really a rivalry but thatâs not Kloops fault. If heâd had the same backing heâd have more trophies than pep
Peps a serial winning manager - yet heâs still to win the European cup with his 1.2 billion squad
Yes, that is what we called sport.
I cannot believe you guys trying to argue this. Pep is up there with the best of managers ever but klopp over him any day of the week. Yes Liverpool have spent money but klopp done it on a tighter budget to Pep and his challenged city for 4/5 years now and his taken them to 3 champions league final.
Raineri did it on an even tighter budget, with a 5000/1 team.
So if u look it like that SAF VS WENGER never was a thing tho cs SAF has 13 PL-s and wenger has only 3
Exactly. How should we measure how is better? Well let's try accolades for example trophy's, record breaking things, influence on football zeitgeist... and such.
That Marvin guy is embarrassing, klopps won more UCLs than in arsenals entire history đđđđ
Why are they only talking about the results?? Pep has results and an amazing football being played for almost 15 years now. We have never seen this before.
Everywhere he goes all the players improve, they play better than ever and win. A lot.
Klopp is great, but he is not at the same level. Because NOBODY is at that level.
Idk where the narrative has come that liverpool havenât spent money
...because that's not the narrative! Who the hell is saying they haven't spent money??? No one! The narrative is they have spent less money.
@@blackfrancis55 Chelsea and United spent more then L'pool. What does that prove?
I think it'll be pretty much impossible for Pep overtake Sir Alex. He built an empire from a struggling club, he also beat Real Madrid in a European Cup final with Aberdeen and is still the last manager to win the league with a team that wasn't Rangers or Celtic.
Not really the moment he overtakes the amount of trophies heâs the GOAT
@@TRiXz_2K nothing pep has done can compare to what sir Alex single handily turned Man United into
Not the same real madrid
Oh give over, he managed the richest team in the country for the majority of his time there, exactly as pep does. And the state that Ferguson left united in was awful, he signed old players because he wanted a league before retiring, rather than leave the squad in a good place for the future.
@@Manunido Pep schooled Fergie twice
Pep will never be better than Mourinho to me. My guy won CL with Porto and Inter
I think Pep might be the best ever for taking a squad or transfer budget with insane potential and turning it into the best side in the world. Klopp would be successful at City but maybe not to the levels as Pep, HOWEVER, there is no chance Pep could get near what Klopp has achieved at Liverpool.
Prove it.
Marvin all over the place on this one