Toxic Femininity? Heather Heying
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- čas přidán 8. 01. 2019
- There is much talk in the media about 'toxic masculinity', but almost none about 'toxic femininity'.
Evolutionary biologist Heather Heying first coined the term in an article for the online magazine Quillette: quillette.com/2017/07/09/on-t...
She talks about her understanding of the concept with Rebel Wisdom's David Fuller.
Check out Heather's other film with Rebel Wisdom, 'From Evergreen to the Intellectual Dark Web': • From Evergreen to the ...
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Heather is great wish she did more content.
she will
Agreed. I love her.
Heimdall's Gate Suuuckerrr
@@Zomfoo umm ok
Great call she’s center center but not wish washy.
Thank you for having Heather on. What a breath of fresh air. It's so sad hearing the extremes on both sides dominating the issue. We need more voices like Heather's.
As in, women need to call out the extremists of their kind
Breath is the right descriptor considering her low, breathy vocal delivery.
She is an extreme on one side. She has been arguing for the "boys will be boys" narrative. All or any bad behavior is not "toxic" to her but "natural". And she seems mad that women are calling it out. 😳
@@waynepoint Wat
One of the most significant problems with the extremes is that they believe that everyone that is against their opinions are extremists themselves but on the other side. Since they hate their opposite extremism they won't listen to what their imagined opponent's arguments.
Fabulous. Finally, someone having something to say that heals the relationship gap. Heather, thank you for speaking so well … for us all (Men and Women alike). Ha!
Heather is remarkable. Unafraid to tackle some of those truly scary questions in the pursuit of truth.
I can respect what you're trying to say. But by definition, questions can only be "scary", to those who willfully shun the truth. Or the concept that there can even be such a thing as objective truth. (The latter being just another way of saying the same thing: refusing to acknowledge demonstrable reality. Either for the purpose of clinging to a comfortable delusion, or for perpetuating a tyrannical agenda. Or both.) In short, it's the old aphorism: "Ya ain't gonna learn what ya don't wanna know."
Not that remarkable. Heying says that woman CAN lie, but cannot fathom that Christine Blase Ford was lying because "Ford had no motive to lie". In spite of Ford's "fear of flying" lie while flying to Tahiti, etc all the time. And Ford's "need of an extra front door due to clausterphobia" lie when records show that she converted an area of the large home into an office with its own door in order to rent it out for profit. I would have to call her misandryst.
What's scary here? Heather is brave but.
I'm at 7:54. I just had small realization that there is this weird sort of inconsistency on the left now regarding expressions of sexuality. On that front, more left leaning types tend to advocate for freedom of sexual expression while saying that the person doing the expressing has no responsibility for how it effects others. But in the realm of speech (another form of expression), the same group is advocating for holding people accountable for how their words effect others. They are drifting toward zero responsibility for effects on others in the sexual sphere and near total responsibility for effect on others in the verbal sphere. On the one hand, they advocate for near total individualism, but on the other they push for near total collectivism. Of course, a woman dressing a certain way does not excuse sexual violence, nothing does. But a woman with nearly every inch of her chest showing, for example, can hardly blame straight men for paying her attention and issuing sexual invitations.
Gosh, how I appreciate thoughtful dialogue on difficult and divisive topics! I don't mind talking to people who have different views than me IF we can have a thoughtful and respectful discussion. I am open to changing my mind upon hearing a compelling argument. As a society, we need to again educate people on the value of dialogue and healthy debate. We need to come back to a view of truth as something that no one group has a monopoly on, but rather something that emerges as a consequence of such things.
Power.
Tim Richardson: no no no, you are confused. The left wants total sexual responsibility when it's a man expressing his sexuality to women, they want zero responsibility for women expressing their sexuality to men. It's all about power, and building their matriarchal authoritarian regime. It's not the sexual sphere vs the speech sphere, it's the allegedly oppressed vs the alleged oppressors.
@@xpusostomos I agree. I wasn't trying to necessarily connect speech issues and gender issues directly. It just struck me that there is an extreme of one standard for one issue, and the complete opposite standard for the other. But dealing with the sexual sphere alone, I totally agree. There is a group that wants men to be accountable for how their sexual expressions are perceived AND how they perceive those of women. For those people, if a woman walks out in public nude, and men stare, men are the perverts. I don't hear people on the left advocating for women to exercise a degree of modesty. Again, nothing justifies sexual assault, or persisting in making advances when the woman has clearly said to stop (harassment). But men cannot be blamed for initial sexual attention when that seems to be what the woman is advertising for.
Tim Richardson Women want what they want, even if they change their mind later about they wanted and blame you. You can’t run a society that way.
Thanks Rebel Wisdom for providing a quality, unbiased interview with very impressive guest, Heather Heying. I was drawn into a captivating, even-handed, well informed and impressively responsive interview. We need truth such as this to evolve and to transcend the ideologically-fueled mire we presently find ourselves in. Great guest, great questions, superb interview. Thank you
Heather Heying is all about facts, love her! Thank you for inviting her!
Thank you Heather Heying, and thank you Rebel Wisdom.
A simplified explanation of the point she's making at the 18 minute mark. Men choose their mates for their ability to provide children. Woman choose their mates for their ability to provide for children.
@ chppandale absurd. both choose mates for the ability to turn them on. many don't want children. or not at first. this notion of motive for mate choosing ignores love and passion. such values do exist as you describe, but they are really toxic.
@@infowolf1 You do not understand biology at all, someone turning you on means you want to mate with them, wanting to mate is your biological drive to produce children. Come on dude, that was a terrible comment.
that is not a biological drive to produce children. that is a biological drive to get pleasured, by yourself or another you are interested in, and that drive is the trap to get you to reproduce. knowledge sex causes babies is not inherent. I recall one humorous, I guess, story of a girl whose family thought that not telling her about sex would keep her from doing it. well, she got pregnant anyway. in a monogamous species, sex drive is focused on a particular opposite sex party. a variety of voles is monogamous but the male if an oxytocin blocker is injected, becomes promiscuous. normally he is monogamous. none of this has to do with knowledge or culture or anything. our prolonged childhood condition makes monogamy likely, indeed only the rich usually practice polygamy though sleeping around is an option in lots of cultures. in Polynesia a long time ago you were expected if female to be a virgin at marriage - but sex with a man who wasn't of that tribe or that island, like a sailor for instance, didn't count. jealousy, sexual exclusivity drive, is found only in monogamous animals, and is shown as a trend in us even when other options exist. in promiscuous "free love" colonies there was always a tendency to settle to one partner preferred over others after a few months or years. cultures that were officially promiscuous nonetheless showed jealousy. animal males usually compete for geographic turf, which incidentally gets them females who like that location. proximity of another male is more a dominance issue than a sex jealousy issue. there are a few exceptions where there seems to be a polygamy producing variation. anyway, your biology fixation ignores that for humans what is a turn on varies wildly by individual and is heavily driven by media and what they are used to seeing, whether to choose that or go for the exotic they are not used to. less boring. lots of women who were plain janes had a kind of presence about them that got them plenty of attention. so it is you who don't understand HUMAN biology - which is variable and driven by several things. history and cross cultural and even same culture different epochs will show that. even the changing popularity of redhead vs. brown hair vs. blondes for one thing, a lot is just a fad. some men want skinny some are chubby chasers. the human is not a simple animal.
@@infowolf1 Again you don't understand biology, you have needs because your biology dictates it. Men choosing chubby girls, skinny girls, what have you is an adaption, everyone competing for the top female would be a disaster, so you have adaptions where people try to go different routes to reproduce.
Your needs drive you, without them your subconscious would make you apathetic, several studies done on people that have undergone severe brain trauma proves this.
If you never feel thirsty you wouldn't drink, if you didn't feel hungry you wouldn't eat, if you didn't feel sleepy you wouldn't sleep, and if you didn't feel turned on you wouldn't reproduce. Your conscious understanding of the underlying processes does nothing to alter this. Sleep wasn't understood for the longest time, but not sleeping didn't do you much good. Why does your palate tire of eating the same food every day? Even if you don't know and you can't consciously reason why, your subconscious knows it will lack certain nutrients if you only eat one type of food. Your needs drive you, not your conscious efforts to understand your actions.
If you want to learn more I recommend reading the righteous mind by Jonathan Heidt.
sex isn't a need like food and water. sure the biological drive is designed to reproduce BUT REPRODUCTION ISN'T ON THE TYPICAL MIND OFTEN AN EFFORT TO AVOID IT. you understand your actions are the result of feelings the origin of which you may or may not understand and don't care about anyway. all of this is irrelevant to the issue of people trying to seduce each other. glancing at the description of the book, it is yet another effort to tie morality and politics to unconscious drives. sure, that plays a role. but how much the group tribal etc. tendency is biological and how much taught is an open question. human societies vary wildly with external angles a strong driver on how they develop. did you know, for instance, that neither group living baboon etc., nor group living lions do so by biological nature? each generation has to be taught to stay with the group. or they will go individual. and die. apparently these critters descend from animals that were too tied to familiar locations to leave and follow the retreating forests as the great veldts etc. developed. in those days, those that found that working together made them safer from predators, and/or more effective as predators, survived, and taught their young. who taught theirs. etc. loose association occasionally is one thing, organized group living is another. the point is, that reproductive origin of a drive doesn't relate to the drive itself operating or not. a woman known to be sterile or hoped to be sterile is not a turnoff in itself except to a man who is extremely interested in having children, and that is a conscious type of ideological thing. we aren't born knowing these drives' purpose.
Heather Heying interview?! Oh ya!! Always love hearing her take on things!
Really enjoyed Heather speaking for me she delivered what she wanted to say in a calm intelligent way, that felt good to listen to. Thank you.
I have an immense amount of respect for Heather for keeping the conversation going without being toxic. Everything I've seen from her is always so enlightening and interesting. This is the type of woman that should be president one day when it happens.
The other day I was sitting in a park alone eating my lunch, lost to a deeply engaging daydream. A middle aged woman approached me and aggressively demanded to know why I was taking photos of her. Astounded, I said "what?". She pointed to something I was holding in my hand and said: "you're holding a camera. I saw you taking photos of me." I held up the "camera" in question: it was a small black thermos, filled with a protein smoothie. The woman, upon realising her absurd, deluded, man-hating, error, didn't have the decency or courage to apologise. She took out her phone and pretended to text someone, and just turned and walked off.
I wish I could say this was an isolated incident, but I fear it's not. Scary world these days for us men.
I think she was just an idiot.
So how did you make your camera look like a Thermos and can you share the pictures on line?
if a scared woman not apologizing to you is a scary world than you're the first person i wouldn't even call a men. I rarely see people so seemingly unaware of what others go through ...
@@jamesbell2682 He can't take pictures because it's not a camera.
When you get raped or physically assaulted by a woman, when she follows you home and threatens your life for not talking to her, when you are actually threatened with physical harm then you be scared, until then you are just inconvenienced and frustrated
She and Jonathan Haidt have really perfected that "telling you a secret in a broom closet" way of speaking.
The way she winds down into a whisper is irritating to me, but your comment made me lol.
Thank you for this wonderful conversation and share!
I'm glad that Heather and Brett have each other. Nothing like a reasonable person to speak to at the end of the day.
Hypergamy: The difference between women jumping around destroying lives as she's young - vs a man divorcing a shrew to find something new... is that there are LAWS stacked against the man as he divorces the woman. He is supposed to pay her for the rest of his life.
THIS is what MGTOW is about. A woman can play around as she sees fit - but if a man does the same, the state steps in and forces the man into a life-long submission at the threat of his freedom.
You may equate these from a biological/evolutionary perspective - but doing so without recognizing that the laws ONLY considers ONE side of this argument is preposterous and disingenuous.
I was brought up by my father.
Yes but mgtow is only a symptom not a solution and more societal consequences will come from that now that both extremities exist. If we don’t experience them in our lifetime the next generation will and who knows what that will look like.
@flownet07 I would not be so sure that that is the case. A woman only has to get knocked up once, maybe even by deception. And then she has a pretty much free ride for the rest of her life. If the father doesn't pay up, then the collective society will step in. There are no consequences for women's actions, period.
@@onesquirrel2713 That's true in the West, but not so in most of the rest of the world where they have stringent cultural customs that punish women for making those "freedom of choices". But I would say that in the long run even in the west there are consequences...a single woman with kids does end up suffering quite often. She is less attractive as a catch if she has more than one or two children; lack of emotional support etc.
@@onesquirrel2713 Collective society are in verge of bunkrupcy (in my country Portugal they are lower the help to single mothers, they start to see if they give more help to them, the numbers grow of single parent(mothers) families) and Only Austria and Portugal are doing something to stop this madness of no marriages and a lot single mothers (that need help from the state).
And the women start to see that man with money are aware of this trend and they have a lot of careful about using condom and dispose the condom in the toilet, and a lot more single man are starting to make
vasectomies at young age, one dude make one at 25 years he was afraid because in england one bitch lie to him and was pregnant (for his luck because he have a lot of money and do business in UK and Portugal, the bitch have a miscarriage at 14 weeks.
And they start to see the consequences by choosing to be a single mother. The young women see that they lose all the sexual power that bring her goodies, they loose a lot of their sexual power (even the most beautiful ones) when they have a child out of the wedlock.
With respect, I think you are both missing the point somewhat about MGTOW (and for the record I'm not MGTOW, MRA or PUA, though I do find that all those categories are saying something that's worth listening to).
From what I can gather, MGTOW isn't saying that men and women can't co-exist collaboratively. They're saying that men and women can't co-exist collaboratively under the current social, cultural and legal framework in the west.
This is an important distinction that I think you may have missed.
Thank you for your work.
Absolutely
Any time I have read anything "MGTOW" all I see is bitterness and whiny resentment, and no acknowledgement that there are two sides to any relationship. The dude had his role in the disaster.
It's ok though Islam or china will bring their own framework..
when west has become too weak and confused to fight back.
women should help those trying to fix the framework we have here in the west before it's too late and we all have separate working space, mandatory work uniforms, etc.
@@Captain_MonsterFart it's not that did t have a role to play, it's the fact that family court predominately takes so much from the guy unless their is irrefutable proof of women doing wrong doing. California for instance if your married for less then ten years then men pay alimony for half the time that they were married. If over ten years then the rest of her life. Literally until she stops breathing and is legally pronounced dead. No matter if the split was without any wrong doing from either party and they just realised they didn't work. No matter if she has a job that allows her to look after herself.
true
I could listen to Heather Heying all day. She provides interesting and well thought out perspectives.
There it is finally! I've found the true voice of reason. What a Clever person this lady is. I'm going to be following her (in the non toxic internet fashion).
What a freakin sweetheart oh my god.
I want to disagree a moment with a point that is made. MGTOW and MRA's are not making generalizations, they are making observations about female nature, family courts, men's issues, and contemporary societal norms. This might be considered "right wing", but as a man who had a DV restraining order pulled on him simply for leaving a woman that I wasn't even married to, I have a right to be a little taken aback when she didn't even have to prove anything in the state of California to frame me as the bad guy. Now I am out 3000 dollars for a lawyer to make sure it didn't become a permanent order and lose my rights and she is out the cost of a TRO, which is a out 35 bucks. All this just to be vindictive for leaving her.
The big mistake people make with the MGTOW and MRA community, is they see them as a bunch of incels, or misogynists, when they have had the deepest parts of their trust violated and have no recourse other than to avoid marriage and walk away, or risk being destroyed.
For that, these individuals have nobody to talk to. Psychologists generally work under a feminist paradigm. Society tells us to suck it up, and the feminists, who cry about toxic masculinity, will call us misogynist for walking away. It's a no-win situation.
So there is no support structure for men, we have been caged by this lie of "Toxic Masculinity" with no way out, While women can cry victim when the entire game is rigged for them. Any wonder men have a hard time regulating emotions?
As with any group, people see the most outspoken members of the group first, since they are the loudest and make the most ruckus. By only seeing those who call themselves MGTOW and MRA use actual talking points like "the Old Days were great because women were subservient to men", it paints the whole group as the worst of its members. Not just MGTOW and MRA, though. There are classic feminists who despise the 4th wave intersectionality bullshit, but because those members are the most vocal, they get the most press. Human beings like to read patterns and compartmentalize. Even when it's affecting our perception of others. Just like how you were compartmentalized and read as "aggressive man" by law enforcement and the judicial system.
Great to hear others think this, I' ve been thinking it for years but never felt comfortable saying it
Great clarity from Heather as always. Enjoyed it!
What a wonderful woman!
Great conversation. Have one with Camille Paglia :-)
Debra Purvis - seconded!
Then a conversation with Heying and Paglia.
yes, I like Camille as well. She's one smart cookie and her perspective on the social sciences aligns with reality. Well, I think anyways.
challengerbrant - I LIKE COOKIES!
Oh, God!!! Okay, okay, okay... Arghhh.
Heather Heying is one smart cookie. LOVE HER!
Great quality, both the content and technical aspect!
I love this woman. What a refreshing conversation, I literally feel as if I’m breathing clean air.
I should think Heather Heying and David Fuller would applaud MGTOW men for NOT using violence, which is their source of power, but rather are walking away. What they are saying in many cases is vile and vicious and nasty, and as applied to all women is not true, as Heather points out. But their actions are just what is best, given their perception of the world, right or wrong. They are abdicating violence by avoiding the circumstance altogether. Do actions speak louder than words in this case?
The other point not touched on, which drives MGTOW, is the legal situation, which rewards women for acting badly, and does have the effect of increasing their numbers. And the risk assessment by some men in that situation is such that they have decided not to invest.
MGTOW are pathetic losers. But hey, do whatever you want with your lives.
@@aali4929 please explain more about why
[To LJR AND Cody Evans]
"... violence, which is their 'source' of power..."
If they (or you) believe THAT... I'd assess that as a pretty good definition of "Loser". They've chosen to concede the whole field of play to those who DO use violence as their only source of "power".
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing."
The "mgtow" went after Po the person
I like how they dismiss the manosphere as being the reflection of the feminists, but also acknowledge several core red pill concepts. The only one they seem to dispute is AWALT.
I had never heard this lady speak before.
She presents a good balanced discussion.
We could all do well to discuss big subjects in a similar manner.
Find her topics difficult and she discusses them in a balanced way best she can.
Great interview!
Just watch 1940s film noir and the “femme fatale” to see this played out - Double Indemnity is my favourite
I'd like to hear Heather speak about the pill and how it affects women and society.
Yes this was little more than a sketchy intro.
So refreshing conversation. Thank you.
I have no words to thank you for this.
Very balanced, PBS could only hope to be this enlightening
What's PBS?
a man has his power from his strength and a woman has her power from her sexuality. this is so true. the only issue is that things like physical assault/violence is illegal (as it should be) so men cant use this power; men cannot use their strength as they please. but women can use their sexuality all they wish, and this is the problem.
the difference is women's sexuality doesn't force men to do anything. men can choose to resist it if they have self discipline. it is not equivalent to violence, hence not a crime.
@@pseudonamed i'm not arguing that having sexual value should be a crime. i am saying that women have the upper hand in society due to her sexuality. Yes, men can try and resist this, because otherwise men will whiteknight for women, give them validation, treat them better etc. I wish men did resist this and not give women so much attention, but unfortunately this is what is happening. men are enabling women to have a princess complex, with the help of social media & the internet. It is similar to how parents enable their child to be spoiled by buying them everything they want.
Unfortunately, this will never happen because having sex/getting a girlfriend is, for the majority of healthy, heterosexual men, necessary for a healthy psychological wellbeing. without it, men become miserable.
You’re all pretending that women are totally asexual and devoid of sexual needs and wants, and that men are never sexually attractive
@@klimtkiller having sex is not a need and a necessity for well being, and we all should be able to resist this weakness, and in case of desperation be able to talk to god and fast to ask for guidance, many of us lost this and are helpless but is really all we need, and many times you will just find the woman you need this way.
@@user-uw3fi2zg4t "weakness." This is an interesting perspective on a naturally built-in human function. Without this "Weakness" human would go extinct but I think I understand what you mean.
Brilliant insightful and well researched debate. Hope to see more of this.
What a great talk. Thank you.
12:24 On this point: "Most women don't behave that way either."
I think that's exactly right, and the missing piece in each extremist camp is that those behaviors, or adaptations, are counter-weighed internally by each individual against the risks those behaviors introduce. One risk that I think goes underestimated is the loss of a long term bond. When men and women pair together they form an emotional bond that provides comfort, stability, and reinforces a positive narrative both personal and shared. In the vein of enforced monogamy, the role of society is to provide the framework where the reinforcing of that narrative is, in fact, considered positive.
Sometimes talking about this stuff feels like we've killed the magic of it. Did people in the past need to rationalize the case for love, loyalty and commitment like this before they could love each other? But we're so stubborn in our rationalism and postmodernism that we've forced the adults to sit us down, reveal the mundane explanations before we kill each other and, in doing so, spoil the magic tricks.
Amen to that.
The 'loss of magic' I think is part of the 'buffered self' that Charles Taylor talks about. Now everything is optional, and we become aware of our choices and therefore we are slightly alienated from them.
It provides stability.... Until it doesn't. Then it provides devastation. And looking at the statistics about break ups, not just of marriage but of relationships, this is not rare, this is the norm now.
THIS RIGHT HERE@@xpusostomos
I could listen to this woman all day. A voice of sanity in the insane wilderness.
She is wonderful! Exceptional answers!
One of the bests channels out there for people who want to educate themselves in this times of blatant media polarization. Bravo! Congrats!
Great analysis. Carefully considered and non-blaming. Unfortunately this calm discourse is an island in a boiling sea of gender-driven angst.
Heather and Karen Straughn ... really need to talk
I think Karen has her act together far more as she seems to be far more aware that women are also sexual beings who aren’t just asexual objects
Really appreciate your thoughtfulness and intellect on such an important topic.
Cant believe i just found this. Fantastic, I'll be looking more into Heathers work.
I find Heather one of the most engaging people on the planet right now. Great all round interview. It's just nice to see two people conversing like adults.
Why is heather one vocal tone away from whispering the whole time? lol
Why cant we have these types of rational opinions in the mainstream? This is so intelligently addressed. Both extremes are wrong and at a common sense level that is intuitive. Great discussion here.
Excellent points. Very interesting conversation
Heather has brilliant intellectual integrity and honesty. 👨🏾💻
very few men and women are capable of transcending their animalistic natures. for those who are, if you actually find someone else who can as well.... its a temporary magic that very very few people have ever known. there is a reward for having a high IQ, humility, patience, self discipline, and a healthy frontal cortex.
Its all contingent on the man having a big income that is earned with little effort.
If its a pain in the ass for him, as it usually is, he will grow to resent the whole thing.
How incredibly REASONABLE
An actual conversation took place. Amazing.
Thank you for this video. And spoken by a woman. It’s important for these taboo issues to be spoken about and from an unbiased view, critical view. Both sides are guilty and we all need to take responsibility. Thank you so much for this
On the point about men and women NOT competing with each other traditionally... isn't that the problem now? That they're forced to compete with each other? Rules of chivalry and courtesy be damned?
Thanks for this
Thank you for your wise and carefully considered words.
But the rules of what counts as sexually revealing behaviour change all the time and depend on cultural context. If the norm is enforced that more skin should be covered and women oblige, the theshold for sexual arousal just shifts accordingly.
Tina K.P. Sexual arousal isnt a social construct its biological...
Sexual arousal is a biological phenomenon mediated by cultural factors.
The physiological reaction might be, but the stimuli are highly culturally variable. 200 years ago in Western Europe men lost it when they got a glimpse on a naked ankle. In many parts of the world seeing hair is perceived as sexually provocative. If dressing norms become more restrictive or uniform, all that happens is that arousal thresholds become more subtle. The uniform can even become a fetish in itself as it happens frequently with school uniforms.
It’s definitely more complicated than this. It’s the extreme emotional manipulation possible by a woman who moves far from the current standard to get what she wants from a man. Women have always been able to manipulate men through the suggestion that a man might get sex in return. At least those men who are either single or unhappy in their marriage. It’s not common but it’s not rare either and it seems to be getting more common as it it’s stigma is all but gone.
@@tinak.p.258 I suspect this is more urban legend than fact. The Victorians and their predecessors were no where near as prudish as we have been led to believe.
Incidentally, Jane Austin wrote a whole series of stories about hypergamy, in a society where it was expected.
The video I’ve been looking for thank you!
Bravo, what an insightful analysis. May there be more like you Prof. Heather Heying.
There's no such thing as "toxic" either one. There's only maladaptive behaviors
I would like it if "maladaptive" replaced "toxic". Let's start using the new terms.
Maladaptive? Actually it's adaptive, albeit often annoying for everyone else.
Yeah - she makes that point in the first 30 seconds...
Well said, I'm going to use that if you don't mind.
So, birthrate is dropping, families do not form, both men and women are angry at each other, feminism faights against MRAs and there are many signs that the society is becomming disfunctional (inevitablr economic collapse due to insane amounth of debt usa had taken to serve mostly women’s needs). Everything becomes uncertain to such a degree, that boys no longer want to defend such a system and become openly agressive. What is the hint from evolutional biology perspective for a species to survive? Or is it inevitable for civilizations to end after they let for individuals to forget their gender roles imprinted throughout millenia?
Wonderfully done.
Amazing interview, thanks
David is such a genuine and handsome man 😊
Is that you, Heather Heying?
BeyondSideshow lol no, we just happen to have the same first name
Lari Kipe Not going to deny that at all😜 Plus he’s a total sweetie
OBJECTIFICATION!
Everything boils down to immaturity and inability to accept responsibility. Immature girls vs immature boys. The thing that is really disturbing that somehow a minority of people managed to convince people who have more power e.g universities and government that this issue was a real problem.
Hi T Thank you for this comment!! Dear Gos, common sense. So much nonsense being debated seriously. The West is so materialistically spoiled it’s actually inventing problems and losing it’ mind. I wonder whta the point to this is. It’s probably sinister.
Thank you
Stop conflating mgtow and mras please and thank you.
@@jiojiojoj men's rights activists... different agenda
@@jiojiojoj What he said. Also sometime Men's Rights 'Advocate' for people like me who are not very 'active' lol.
MRA's want fair laws.
MGTOW believe that's futile because you can't go against female interest and win (biological impossibility).
Perhaps you should work harder to differentiate yourselves? Many of the perceptual errors Heather is talking about are repeated by MRAs.
listener523 they do make the differentiation. Constantly. The problem is that their opposition doesn’t care and the “they’re just evil, radical misogynists” gets exponentially more traction than anything they say.
I can believe Heather may have encountered "toxicity" among mgtows, but I have a harder time believing she's ever actually talked to any MRAs if she makes that statement. I suspect she is not well informed enough to distinguish the two.
Apart from that, Heather is so very real, and I love this about her.
This is by far the most balanced and intelligent discussion I've heard on CZcams regarding the various issues associated with relationships between men and women. To some extent, one of the byproducts of social media algorithms is the tendency to offer and promote videos with more extreme, negative content to viewers. Of course, the ability to be completely anonymous contributes to this as well, as Heather Heying explained. The result is that people expressing moderate viewpoints get drowned out by the more aggressive ones on either side. Hopefully, discussions like this one will begin to get more attention and feedback.
Fascinating ones more with Heather, love her. But wauw, that is an interesting fact (assuming it is) the more equality for men in a society, the less toxic masculinity. Never really thought about that in this way, but it makes a lot of sense.
That is been explored in half the feminist lit i read in 70s and some in 80s. Our highly competitive commericial alpha male culture stigmatized it as "communism" and evil. Obvious some of the folk on this board did not catch Heather is a progressive who does not like the extreme classism and disparities we have created which commercial culture exploits.
9:49 "Monogamy is enforced by women".
10:02 "When monogamy emerges, usually out of a polygynous system... it is the women who are enforcing the monogamy... It is not enforced by men."
Interesting. But this isn't explained at all. How do women enforce it?
how come in most societies it is women who must be monogamous (or suffer very bad consequences) but men can screw around without punishment.
Toby I suppose they enforce it simply by choosing not to mate with men who have multiple partners.
R M. I think it has to do with paternal uncertainty. It’s why men are more concerned with sexual cheating whereas women are more concerned with emotional cheating.
They stop fucking around and learn to control themselves like adults should
Collaborative relationships work. We work best when we work together. But you can't work with someone who sees you as a resource, or who sees you as a threat.
Have to work together, have to support eachother, and definitely have to enjoy eachother too.
Great discussion.
Very mixed bag interview. Many good things said. Many inaccurate things said. Ultimately the issue is this: what men want matters, too. Women can’t decide what we desire. Right now the western woman is, especially in the current socio-legal context, unappealing to a growing number of men.
as the pornography seems to be more popular than ever. have you checked out the sex robots for men?
I've never clicked on a video so quickly.
Also, first.
@ Is introspection and self-awareness just none existent in recent times?
This is so extremist and so dangerous, I don't even know where I would have to flee if this gets too bad.
Nathan Ingold lmao Right!
You’re telling me it took you longer to hit like on Lady Gaga - Bad Romance than it did on this? You should be ashamed of yourself!!
Devastatingly good. Well done all involved
What a fantastic woman and perspective! Interview her more please
the one natural inborn trait that tends to come from men is "integrity" or "your word is your bond" coupled along with "follow through" which is something women are often lacking in many aspects of their lives.. Women simply don't believe in this "integrity" idea, which falls right inline with what Heather is saying in this video. to most women, words are a tool to be used at their convenience and what they say today has little to no bearing on what they say ( or do) tomorrow as this allows them to keep social circumstances "fluid" thus aiding their subtle yet insidious "manipulation" of people and circumstances for their own gains.
So far, I've yet to see a woman that displays this "Integrity trait" naturally. They even tend to resist learning it. and are often quick to suggest that a man should "just leave that job" or "you need to get out of that contract" because following through with the harder than normal jobs, is not what women see as having any value. but all men know that if you don't do what you say, your social trust erodes at lighting speed.
Men know instinctively that having a strong "Word Bond" and keeping up with that, regardless of what has to be done to achieve their goal, is nearly paramount in a mans world of business and networking. in many cases its the only thing that can save you when you find yourself in a pinch.
Women don't need that type of social trust, as they were never "trusted" past bearing and raising kids & keeping the hearth anyway. Women have a natural sense of dis-trust, no doubt reinforced by schoolyard relational aggression treatment of their peers.
They dis-trust everyone as if on auto pilot, so therefore, they shouldn't be trusted either.
Only the very few exceptional women have risen above these inborn traits, to a position of trust that can put them in true equality with men.. its not that it was ever difficult to do either.. they just naturally refuse to see it as worth doing.
But you can simply ask any man.." Do Actions REALLY speak louder than words"? and he will say "yes" instantly.
women on the other hand rarely if ever answer this question with a yes OR even with any kind of conviction behind it at all.
14:20 "There's simply no good faith left." The quintessential recognition of MGTOW.
That was very informative. Thank you very much!
I’m happy people are finally talking about this
Good honest discussion , but didn't offer any solutions ??
I personally thinks we should abandon Co Ed schools and go bback to single sex schools and let men and women do their own thing until they leave and reach sexual maturity
That would only work if you kicked out the Marxist teachers. Otherwise you'd only raise a generation of soy boys.
FINANCIAL RAPE ! That is something we need to talk about.
Financial Rape of men by women... is all too common, and hardly ever discussed.
Which is worse: Financial Rape or Physical Rape? It can sometimes be the Financial Rape
"An epidemic of gold digging whores." Bill Bur
Well done
Wow, this is a brilliant interview. What a great scholar. Off topic, but she has such a soothing, intellectual voice. I like it.
Fantastic interview... a women that I could almost respect.
Just a note on your final word... MGTOW aren't yelling. They're just walking away doing their thing, while women are shreeking shaming words at them. Coward. Nerd. Be a Man. Weakling. Never understanding that the men are stronger than these shreeking women can ever imagine.
they cannot handle the fact men can decide for themselves that women are not worth the effort, very threatening to them and their innate insecurity
Amen brother.
She is wrong about NAWALT. A man's odds for finding a lifelong mate is 1 in 5 from 18-24, 1 in 20 from 24-32 and not a chance in hell after that. NAWALT? Yeah well enough ARE to make it a losing bet.
Edit: women's odds are 3 in 5 no matter the age.
Please cite the peer reviewed statistical source of your evidence.
mgk2020 Yeah how bout please. OR...maybe you realize that I was not put on this earth to do other people's homework. I presented something I believe to be truth. If you care to prove or disprove it that's YOUR job. Don't come to me begging for help.
Edit: thank you for adding please to your request.
More of this please!!!!!!
Keep up the great work
I know this is very superficial...but could that dude dress a little bit better,since he is going to be on camera? Just asking!!!!
Yeah. You're right. You're shallow.
He and Heather apparently both believe that men don’t need to look good. I agree with you, William. This interviewer is dressed poorly. And as a heterosexual woman, I also like my men to be eye candy
Even this rational woman at just before the 14 minute mark, has to think hard about toxic femininity, how do identify it, and what to call it. Sexism is alive and well, and it's against men not women. At least in the West.
I noticed the same. She was scrambling to think of something a woman might do that could be considered toxic. I could have helped her. False accusations, paternity fraud, child abuse/murder, cyber bullying.....
add overprotective and femininity encouraging "masculinity" aka tomboyism discouraging often subtly towards girls, quick to help and sooth instead of encouraging courage and overcoming pain and figuring how to handle difficulties and obstacles in experiments with toddlers and parents.
Fantastic interview! 😎
This was great. I’ve just been reading the vitriol stemming from the Gillette ad and so it was reassuring to see in this video someone talking in a calm, respectful, logical, balanced and informed manner.
A new study finds that men are more likely to blame stress from work as a contributor to poor mental health, while women are more likely to jabber on about something...
Sadly you do not understand MGTOW, please ignore the idiots and distill it down to the truths... mgtow saved me and helped me understand my place after a 27 year marriage and being dumped via an affair, im good now thanks too. I also think Heather is over simplyfing and fudging real issues, she spoke alot but said little.
yes they don't understand. a real MGTOW would never interact with a woman. not even to insult her. i heard some have no human contact at all
@@WTFSt0n3d no true Scottsman fallacy