Why I Switched To Intel and Why I May Switch Back To AMD
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- čas přidán 3. 05. 2024
- In this video, I explain why I left AMD and switched over to Intel. I share my experience with the Intel platform. This includes my experience with both the 14700K and 14900K. I explain my issues with the Intel latency problem. I also discuss how I am considering switching back to AMD and the AM5 platform with the 7800X3D.
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SOURCES:
Tech YES City: • SNAP - The Intel CPU L...
DannyzReviews: • Fixing High Latency Is...
Techwando: • INTEL latency issue PT...
CPPC TEK: • The Wait Is Over! Leno...
AMD releases even more Ryzen 5000 CPUs, keeps its last-gen AM4 platform alive : tinyurl.com/2uxeputf
G.Skill shows DDR5-8000 kit running on an Intel Core i9 13900K
tinyurl.com/yeyvw86a
AMD Agesa Updates
tinyurl.com/2dvshwxw
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Harris Heller Streambeats. You may have heard about this from Alpha Gaming / Senpai Gaming
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The videos you will find on this channel are similar to videos you will find on channels like JayzTwoCents, BitWit, Hardware Unboxed, TechSource, and Gamers Nexus.
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🎬Chapters
🕒 0:00 - Intel vs AMD
🕒 3:28 - My AMD CPU History 3800X 5800X 5800X3D 7800X3D
🕒 5:00 - Why I Bought a 7800X3D and Switched to AMD AM5
🕒 6:22 - Why I Switched to Intel
🕒 7:46 - Why I Bought a 14700K and a 14900K
🕒 9:34 - Intel Latency issues and lag
🕒 14:23 - Why I May Switch Back to AMD
🕒 17:20 - Final Thoughts - What Should I do
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This video addresses all the following topics:
AMD vs Intel
AM5
14700K
14900K
7800X3D
AM5 issues
Intel issues
Intel Latency
Best CPU to buy
Best Gaming CPU
#intelvsamd #14900k #7800x3d
There are more reasons for me to consider switching back to AMD outside of what was stated in the video. My viewers want a follow up to the AM5 video series. The LGA 1700 socket is now dead. AM5 still has life left in it. But what do you think?
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i think that windows is the problem with both amd and intel. i am on the 1600 af and won't be upgrading until next year sometime (for windows 10's end of life). i believe that most of the problems are more software than hardware when it comes to pc problems today. for the longest time i'd have to roll back amd drivers in the games i played because they were only worried about intel and nvidia, that finally went away when amd started to catch and pass intel, but i still think that programs and os are the problems now.
@@craiglortie8483 You very well may be right. Windows 11 is filled with bloat.
@@ErockOnTech i don't even think it's bloat. 2 different chiplet designs and ways to do the same thing are hard to keep from conflicting in an os that's as bad as windows is becoming. then add in the fact that they wanted to charge you for using windows and are going to after october of next year. i don't think they have the manpower to keep writing the patches that don't screw with the other cpu.
@@ErockOnTech this is why i kept my phenom II 955 for almost 9 year, til it became a tri core. LOL.
With both systems (until I got the Z790 Apex Encore) XMP didn't just work without manually increasing the voltage OR lowering the frequency. Very strange but possibly why you had some RAM instability there.SA voltage also can came these things a bit wonky when off or set to auto (I run 1.25V on Intel and like 1.27-1.3V on AMD)
People forget that any company is not your friend they want only your money.
What are you talking about? Next time you say that Red Bull doesn't give wings??
Capitalism is two parties making a mutually agreed upon bargain where both parties are pleased. They don't have to be your friend. Do you have to be their friend? Things like customer support and reliability are mutually beneficial if they win your long term endorsement and word of mouth. Yes they want to make money and yes you want the best product at the lowest price. Nothing wrong with that.
Except evga😂
this is so true i was a fan of one specific brand in my country once but after my component broke and I sent it to them they won't fix it for me cuz it had rust on Backplate and it wasn't in an Agreement either
_Some_ people take pride in their work. It's difficult for a publicly list company.
I just don't want my CPU to draw more power than my GPU.
I understand that completely.
You have to enforce the intel limits or manually change pl1 /pl2 limits or else most motherboards will yeet in as much power as it can handle.
@@cppctekVery true as well! Good point! Thank you for sharing this information.
@@cppctek yeah, and doing some tuning on XTU is quite easy, I limited my 12600k to 125W, which with UV gets me the same results as 180W stock. But my favourite setting is 95W (always with UV, somewhat close to the highest point in the perf/W curve), performing virtually the same in gaming (P cores can still hit 4.7GHz) and loosing about 6% perf. in multi thread compared to 180W stock.
who cares? better yet why do you care? if you have a sufficient power supply and sufficient cooling..why does it matter? 🤷🏿♂️ I genuinely want to know why people hype power draw(real world use not full load benchmark power draw)
Personally I would game on the 7800x3d. I can definitely say AM5 really is in a good position now because just a lil over a month ago, I built my 2nd pc after stepping out of the pc space for over 2 years and was able to configure all my bios settings, drivers, EXPO without any problems. I went in blind and bought the 7700x and 4070 Ti Super, built it, and here I am chillin. The boot times were horrible before a BIOS update though lmao.
Thank you for the feedback. You’re the first person I’ve seen answer my question at the end of the video. Thank you 🙏
Thank you for the high quality content, it's because of you that I was able to watch the video start to finish on the pc that your videos helped create.
@@AkNichThank you! That is very kind of you to say! I really appreciate you sharing that with me!
My 7800x3d with 32gb 6000 cl30 takes a solid minute plus to boot. No idea how to fix it
@@BreadAndGatorade Might need a BIOS update, or your startup apps might be making your PC boot time long. Before a Bios update my PC took like 1m 30s to boot, but after BIOS update and turning off some apps on startup, my PC boots in like 10-15 seconds now.
Thanks for the shoutout! It’s always great to hear your experiences. It’s key for everyone to be nice and to remember everyone can have a wildly different experience. So many combinations of hardware, software and settings. So many variables and intel can often get a bad wrap also for the power draw. These motherboard enabled with xmp without setting manual power limits or enforcing the intel stock limits will result in massive power draw. Dropping 7200 to 7000 def is par for the course for me too. I run xmp tweaked + manual 252w pl1 and pl2 limits and my r23 scores are the same as stock but my temps when benchmarking never touch those same numbers it use too. I totally believe you with the latency and random stutters. It’s a known issue. I’ve had some success with eliminating it on mine and my wife’s but it doesn’t always work for everyone forever. It’s a very elusive issue. It’s not a skill issue for sure because some just can’t get it fixed. I have a friend who’s got an am5 system though where he just started expecting it. I haven’t checked it out yet but yeah Thank you so much for the shoutout. If you’d like I’m still down to chat with ya this week and remote in or do a video call and let’s fafo with some tweaks I use and maybe just maybe there’s hope. Also downgrading to w10 isn’t the best either. If you can give me a shot this week we may can get this better for ya. ❤
Yeah man I’m still open to working with you later this week. Just let me know. I appreciate the time you have already given me. Thank you for the kind words. I really appreciate it!
@@ErockOnTech The 13th generation heats up rapidly, leading to potential throttling and lag without adequate cooling. I installed T30 fans on my radiator to mitigate this issue. Achieving stability with XMP took nearly four months of collaboration with MSI and experimenting with developer BIOS versions, proving to be largely unproductive. However, the mouse lag appears to be an operating system or application-related problem. To address it, I typically opt for a quick Windows reinstallation, which takes approximately 10 minutes, followed by a few additional hours to set up my applications, thus avoiding prolonged troubleshooting efforts.
Btw stock Win11 is junk. I use one of FBconan's builds (WinXlite), and then clean it up and check file signatures. Processes should be
I remember your videos regarding your AM5 issues when I was researching building a new PC using AM5. I saw two videos (I can't remember the people who posted them) in which one said to wait (from the time the video was posted) 6 to 8 months before ordering the motherboard I had my eye on. The reason was to give the entire AM5 platform to "settle down." I ordered my components except for the motherboard and RAM. I followed that advice.
The second video suggested to install everything vanilla. No CPU over clocks, no RAM over clocks.... Default only. This person even said that if your CPU has integrated graphics: don't install a dedicated GPU yet or even a second NVME. I did that....
Basic hardware hooked up, installed Windows 11 Pro, and then let the system set for a day: just run in a basic mode. After that, I installed the GPU and second NVME and started the system. After about 2 minutes of nail biting: the system booted. Again, as suggested: I used the system doing mundane stuff. Windows & driver updates, watched a few YT videos, and played a few hands of Solitaire. The third day I enable PBO and the memory OC. After a 30 second wait: Windows loaded. That was in January of this year. Now, I can shut my AM5 system off and when I turn it back on: it's less that 20 seconds before Windows login appears.
Yes: that was a lot of waiting. No, I don't know for sure if those reasons are why my AM5 system has been wonderful. All I know is that sometimes, being first is not always a good thing. Running components in "vanilla mode" allowed me to become more comfortable with the AM5 boot procedures and I didn't have any issues. Granted that could have just been luck or a "golden" CPU; but, my AM5 system has been rock solid.
Give AM5 another chance. You might like it. If not, you still have Intel. It would be a win win either way.
I appreciate you sharing this feedback with me. I’m going to give AM5 another try. I’ll report my experience. Thank you 🙏
Actually with Win11 pushing so much AI. Having the AM5 platform so new back then, this was GREAT advice !!
As others have said ,Asus does push boundaries on their MB’s. Quality control not so good anymore ( 10 yrs ago they were 3-5x better, I’m oldER :) I had to fully take off Asus’s Armoury Crate software on i9-12900H ROG laptop since made it way slower than a i5 12th Gen, crazy.
However, I think it is Great advice now with the Win11 AI push. Hell, when I try to put I, autocorrect usually inputs ai now, just like after However in this paragraph !!
@@sbme1147 I use OpenRGB for the RGB controls. ArmoryCrate same bloat issues 12900K, so I'm better off not using it and making sure it doesn't install when possible.
The price drop and system stability are worth the wait. It’s a flaccid flex to have the latest and greatest.
Hey Erock I appreciate this video and you are right there isnt much videos like this and it gives a perspective of trying something new and seeing if its better.
That was my goal! Yes, I noticed there was a big gap on CZcams for that type of content. I was genuinely curious what would happen if I switched. Sadly, all I learned is that both platforms are good at gaming and can have different issues in other categories. However, I am excited to switch back to AMD and see how that goes for me.
Hey great video man and I appreciate the shout out!. These kinds of videos are awesome because they really give a good insight on what its actually like to use the product on a day-to-day basis. While the results and data from mainstream reviewers or large reviews sites are helpful, (fps figures, render times) they don't tell the full story.
I hear Intel has actually launched an investigation on a lot of these issues as well as the crashing issues many users have reported. There are just so many variables involved these days and with these processors having so many built-in OC and power saving features, it's going to be hard to narrow it down to a single cause. It's just so intriguing to see how much the experiences can vary with these new platforms. I'm personally thinking one of the major culprits is DDR5 regardless of whether you're on AM5 or LGA1700. Ever since DDR5 became mainstream I've seen so many people having issues with system stability and a lot of it going back to their ram not being stable even at XMP/EXPO.
Furthermore the motherboard manufacturers don't appear to be on the same page, and I think the onus is on Intel/AMD to roll out stricter guidelines for their partners. I'm not saying they should completely restrict them or take away tweaking options, but for those that don't want to mess around and want their system to work out of the box, they should have that assurance.
I feel like we're regressing back to the early days of PC building where hardly anything worked out of the box, and overclocking/tweaking was a necessity if you wanted to get your system to work right. It's 2024, the end user shouldn't have to go through with that and I say this as someone who will sit there for hours messing around with ram timings.
At the end of the day finding what works best for you and what makes you the happiest is all that matters. If you want a suggestion on which system you should use as your daily and which one you want to use a test bench, my advice would be to use the system that give you the LEAST amount of problems as your personal rig. So that way you can ensure you've got maximum up-time and can roll through your projects rather than waste time on trouble shooting.
Thank you! Hey man no problem at all. I appreciate you taking time to try and help me. I also appreciate the conversations we’ve had. You make good content. I have no problem helping other people find you.
For my system, that’s a perfect suggestion! Thank you. I’m going to try AM5 again as my main. I’ll report my experience in a later video.
You’re definitely right about the full story on product reviews. Sometimes the long term user experience is missing. That is so beneficial when someone is looking to buy a product 5-6 months after launch for example.
You may be correct about the DDR5. That makes a lot of sense and honestly the thought has crossed my mind. Do we know of any reports with intel latency on a DDR4 system? That could be worth looking into actually.
Was planning an AM5 build last June and your series on AM5 convinced me to build AM4 instead. It's been flawless. Thank you!
I can relate. Thank you that very good and objective video. I am switching between intel and amd since 20 odd years or so.. started with intel 486dx2 then amd athlon socket 7 and since then with every new machine kinda switching back and forth.. both brands deliver what they supposed to. My recent switch was from Ryzen 9 5900hs to intel ultra 9 185h (laptops) and I'm happy with both ..
Thanks for sharing. I was on intel (i7 920) for about a decade. Had no issues. Been on amd since ryzen though (3600, 5600, and soon to be 5700x3d) and its been great.
Yeah the AMD AM4 platform was great for me! Zero issues! I do believe AM5 is better now and likely similar. I’m about to find out and make a video 😎
@@ErockOnTechwaiting for this one
Before I’ll make my choice in going to do my first build on 7800x3d or going on 14700k on the intel!
Subscribed!!! Think you will go far! Great review!
I was jealous of your backdrop for a long time, I just realized that the backdrop looks different now. Now I'm more jealous than before 🤦 Love the clean look!
Haha oh really? That’s interesting. That’s funny also. Thanks for sharing man.
Just a little bit of info, are you using lian li fans or the l connect software by any chance? I was getting alot of stuttering and latency problems on my 7800x3d rig and it turned out the culprit was l-connect. Like you I spent many months trying to resolve the problem until I found an old redit post mentioning the same thing for other users. Since I stop l connect running in the back ground now once my fan profiles etc have loaded on boot I have had 0 latency issues.
I like this video and you have earned a new subscriber! :) In all honesty, I think the best course of action would be to go with your plan of making the X3D your gaming rig and use the 14900K as a workstation :)
Great video Erock. Honestly I FEEL your frustration on this.I spent months replacing parts, testing customer machines etc. Just like you mentioned not being a hardware engineer, same here man... we shouldn't even be diving that deep into settings for a stable machine.
I think a lot of it has to do with different manufacturers, for an example ASUS really pushes their motherboards out of the box (kinda in a bad way IMO) so if you get a board that really pushes it and a chip that's slightly unstable or has some issues, you'll end up with a stuttery mess. I personally found that high core count i7s and i9s seemed to be way more "stuttery" but again my sample size is small.
I will mention the 3rd part I had made that you featured here (my fault for not making a proper follow up) I had some good luck with it for a while but eventually I did have issues again unfortunately. Ultimately I end up switching over to an ASRock Aqua z690 (went backwards from z790) and my stability has improved tremendously. I don't have enough data to say that it's 1 vs the other company, I will still get occasional stuttering, but it's a 10th of what it was on the Asus board. If I was to guess, I have kinda a bum chip, and my older Asus board wasn't playing nice with it, even after undervolts, disabling xmp, you know... all the things! Haha.
I appreciate you having the guts to point this out. Super honest video and I hope people see that.
🫡
Thank you man for the kind words! Also, thank you for your work on this issue and sharing it with me and everyone else. I appreciate your time on trying to help me with this issue. Sometimes problems just can't be fixed I guess. Other people are reporting no issues and honestly I am happy for them. If someone builds an Intel rig, it's not cheap. They deserve a stable and snappy system. But that doesn't invalidate our experiences. Other people in the comments here suggest switching my board out. Some say it just needs to be a Z790 instead of a Z690. Others say it needs to be a non Asus board. As you can see, the suggestions are all over the place. No one really knows how to fix it. Back to AMD I go I suppose! New video incoming!
@@ErockOnTech I would be interesting to throw the I9 on some basic level board that can support it (vrms) that is not Asus, just to see if your experience changes at all.
Incredible informative video, plse your thoughts: if I'd go down one step, say I7 13700k VS AMD 7 5800X3D which would you prefer ? thnxs
Good video Erock documenting your experience. I've been a very early adopter of AM5 with the 7700X and now have had a 7800X 3D for some time as well. AM5 has come a long way since it's launch with fixes.
I really like the 7800X 3D. It has awesome gaming performance and sips power.
Thank you! I’m planning to switch back here soon. Video incoming!
I ordered the mechanic master C28 case, getting ready to build brother😀 This case looks so dope. I hope it doesn't disappoint every person who left a review on it left positive 4.9
That case is so cool. I wouldn't mind building in it!
Very informative content. You just help me decide to build my next rig. Guess I'm going for AM5 build. But just with 7500F + 5200mhz ram. I prefer stability over anything else and call it a day.
Perhaps someday, with broader upgrade path on AM5, maybe I just upgrade to 7800x3d or the next gen CPU.
Thank you. I'm happy to share my experiences! I'm happy I could help you.
On AM5 had issues with my system the am5 series helped me find out that my ram at 6000 was the issue currently running stable at 6000 and improved performance by tuning the voltages and subtimings. Try tuning the ram on am5 might help stability
how did you dected the ram issue ? is there a software you would recommand ? are you running an x3d cpu ?
Once I enabled Memory Context Restore and disabled Fast Boot in my BIOS with my ASUS ROG STRIX B650E-F, my system stopped doing the memory training every boot. System boots to Windows login in 20 seconds now. Of course also make sure your BIOS is up to date.
I really appreciate this insight. Being a consumer who gets one platform every so often I'm pretty much committed once I make a purchase for better or worse. Good to see your view on current parts and I'm curious to see, if you happen to do it again for next generation, would be great!
I'll always share my experiences when I can. But since you are in the Discord you get extra early insights! ;)
Thanks Erock. I have a great appreciation for your perspective mate.
I have _not_ experienced the RAM issues you did with AM5 myself. I use 32GB value _G-Skill Flair X5_ (EXPO only). I don't know if it's the same you had. I bumped it up 0.05v to *1.4v* and tuned its @6000MHz _36-36-36-96_ timings to *30-34-34-76* and it's stable.
In fact, I've stress tested it on decompressing large FitGirl files which are notoriously unforgiving, the hardest real world tests on RAM I know, and it's rock solid every time. Maybe I was just lucky in the silicon lottery?
My mobo is an Asrock X670E Steel Legend with a 4090 XLR8 btw. Regards.
I see you are not keen on upping voltage. Well, even without the 0.05v bump that RAM was stable at its rated EXPO timings.
I had some issues building my first PC in a while, I went with an AM4 motherboard and an open box Ryzen 2700x and had some problems. I didn't have any issues upgrading to a 5800x on the same platform. I also had a great experience when I upgraded to an Asrock AM5 motherboard and a 7900 x3d and 32GB DDR5 memory that is on the QVL list for my motherboard. On my secondary PC an 5900X I have had random keyboard and mouse issues and this system has been somewhat of a headache and it is also an Asrock motherboard but it was open box. Just upgraded the BIOS, to windows 11, and upgraded to a 4070TI. Hopefully it works well from now on.
Hello,great content. In a couple of months,I want to make the upgrade from AM4 to AM5,decided to go with a ryzen 7 7800x3D from a Ryzen 7 5800x3D. Is it okay to go with windows 11 or just skip it and remain on windows 10 with the AM5? I've heard a lot of complaints about the new version of windows and I don't want to have stability issues. Thank you for this great video as always!
Im fine with 7800x3d in W11, choose wisely good luck
i dont have a good pc just a laptop, but i think if you delete all the bloatware that comes with win 11 them it should be great
I had the 13700k and watched Danny’s videos on how to set it up and it was perfect, after some time a bios was released and I just kept getting constant bsod no matter the time, I tried so many things I just gave up and stopped playing. The 7950x3d went on sale and I decided to go with that over the 7800x3d because I do more than game and aside from the boot times it’s been great.
I'm sorry to hear about your 13700K issues. But I'm happy you are up and running now with a reliable CPU.
There are a specific set of bios option that can be flipped to improve Boot times on AM5. The main one is Memory Context Restore, as it speeds up subsequent memory training after the initial one when memory settings are changed. It tends to be in two different places, and seems to be best to enable in both places. At least in the Asus BIOS I know there is a search feature where searching "Context" the only relevant options tend to show up. Another change may need to be made to the 'Fast Boot' option in the Boot menu.
@@ErockOnTech ah no worries, I'm planning on using it for a SFF build for when I travel or use it for a DIY Nas, even though that seems kind of overkill, but I have it!
Cant go wrong with the AM5, nor 13th gen but you get what I mean.
@@blkspade23 i did not know that! I'll have to check that out when I have the chance so thank you for that info!
Did u make sure to stress test ur ram and make sure ur mobo is following the intel stock power limits? (It could be a c states issue)
I had similar Usb problem on an Msi board. The Pch chip on the mb handles Usb among other systems. In bios you can adjust the voltage on this chip and you can also see the temperature in Hwinfo64. You should stay under 65C on that chip. Some mb run too low voltage on this chip because of inadequate cooler on this chip. Its often cooked from the air coming from the graphic card too. Its always placed in the upper part of the mb and usally behind the graphic card. So try to keep this chip cool (below 65C idealy) and adjust the voltage to 0.84-.0.9V. 0.87V is a good middlepoint if you can keep the chip below 70C at all times. I have a feeling that silicon quality varies a lot on these chips. My z690 Asus ran that chip at 0.92V and Msi z790i ran the Pch at 0.82V and this made the usb drop out completely a few times.
I started out with ryzen 5 1600 and a msi mobo there was headaches with getting memory to work in the beginning. Then I went to the 3600 and now on the 5700x and now things are more ironed out and stable. Your intel headaches I have no clue as the last intel chip I had was around skylake I believe. Im sure intel will eventually work out there issues as well I was curious if u swapped motherboards on the intel chips. I had a MSI motherboard that had latency issues on the amd platform and reflashed the bios then the issue disappeared the bios that was on the motherboard was corrupted causing a similar issue. Anyways great video! (I bleed red btw lol) and thats okay but I would use either I just love tech!
Thumbnail is dope!
Thanks bro 🔥
thanks my guy im planning on upgrading this year from a 3900 the 350 bucks i can spend on a 5950x can be put towards ram and mobo alone or even a CPU so yea may as well spend 500 to 600 to upgrade fully
I've experienced some of those peripheral lag issues on Windows 11 and I'm on AM4. It may be Windows 11, or perhaps NVIDIA? I also have and RTX GPU. Just wondering. If you already have both platforms, I guess it's worth testing.
The Core Parking and Audio issue is definitely more to do with the Big/Little intels only. That I am not experiencing on my R9 5900x.
I used to have issues like the ones you’re describing, and it was always something that wasn’t obvious like reinstalling windows, or some setting that only experts would know. Just hang in there, you’ll learn more over time.
Actual Hardcore overclocking the guy seems very knowledgeable you should give him a call I think he might be able to help you out.
Yeah not a bad idea.
I've got a 7700x, i got it in a bundle from Micro Center last year, just recently got my hands on a 4080 super, I'm happy and done upgrading for awhile lol
Dang, I'm running a 12700k with zero latency issues. I was planning to eventually put a 14700k in this machine to get a bit more life out of it but might not after all. Good video
One of my friends visisted me with his pc and it also had lagging issues. The solution i used on his pc was undervolting the cpu in BIOS. His main problem was a cpu cooler that was to little to handle the heat his cpu made (14700 K). He went out and got a Be Quiet Dark Rock Pro 5 cpu cooler and that could handle the heat that his cpu made so he could go back til default settings in BIOS. I havent heard about any problems from him since then. Btw. i use the same cpu cooler on my 5800X3D.
Good video ! What mousepad is that you use , it was sweet looking ! Also I switched from amd to intel from ram issues also , I guess they now have kits that say amd expo , and those work , i enjoyed it when it did work , however I have had good luck with intel also ! A littler higher clocks on the ram for now , but anyways thanks for the content
Thank you! The mouse pad is the Gamers Nexus mod mat.
Am5 boot times are long because you need to turn off the memory training.
I've built a system with a 7800x3d with the amd7900xtx gpu.
Took me some time to get up and running (was my first custom build), but since I had all drivers updated and disabled memory training it works like a charm.
If you are editing i understand Quick Sync with Intel really helps.
lots of changes and such but have you changed out the asus mobo? have had an issue with asus and voltages with intel chips on my 12,13 and 14th gen
I have not. The only intel motherboards I have are both Asus. So you think if I use another brand, the issue will go away? What voltages were changed and what were the values?
Hello what power supply are you using? what's your wattage?
Have you tried another board vendor? Gigabyte? ASRock? Also, G.Skill hasn't let me down yet when it comes to RAM. Flare X or Trident Z/Neo!
Last time I had a latency issue was with my 2700X, which was due to a dying memory controller. Long and short was I update at one point to a beta bios. Security patch and performance improvement, didn't noticed that the XMP was pushing 1.5 V to the memory controller for prolonged period, update the bios to a no beta version and then for about a period of a year was Undervolting the RAM and dropping the memory speeds which would temporarily reduce the latency issues before they would return. CPU was out of warranty so I'm running a 5700x now. TLDR is latency issues suck specially when they cause audio lag. My question is does the memory speed affect the latency issues like it did in my case?
Out of curiosity: have you tried reinstalling the drivers for the peripherals?
I once thought I had a problem with my keyboard, but it ended up being a windows update that installed outdated drivers that did weird things like double inputs 😬
Yes, I did try that. Twice actually.
I jusy switched from a 7800x3d to a 14900k. So far, i haven't experienced any issues. Its been a really smooth transition. My am5 platform has been a headache since day 1 with a ton of random issues. In my experience and with the games I play, im getting better fps and better 1% lows. Leading to a more enjoyable experience.
While I havent had issues with intel. I have had issues with the mobo trying to push crazy high wattage. Thats not an intel issue. Its the motherboard..just set to intel defaults and its good to go. Though i did take the time to OC/UV it myself. Its been fantastic so far
Was your RAM in the QVL of your MB? Mine wasn't and had crashes often until I switched to one that was listed there.
Yes it is on the QVL.
QVL means nothing
I recently switched to amd when I built my first pc and was previously on an prebuilt with an intel. They feel the same when not gaming but my current rig with my 7800x3d during gaming feels incredible. No stuttering and everything is buttery smooth. The only difference I noticed is that intel CPU’s tend to run a little hot, especially newer chips. Other than that when you’re at the high end they’re pretty much identical outside of production work. I know people have had issues with 6000mhz and above ram but mine is rock stable at 6400 🤷♂️ can’t go higher than that though
I have new settings which I am using for my i9-13900k and i9-14900k. I don’t like the uncertainty of undervolting so prefer working with power and clock limits. With these settings I got a couple of FPS BETTER on CP2077 and Forza Horizon Benchmark, went from 99th to 98th percentile on PC Mark Extended, passed the Time Spy Stress Test, Time Spy was within a whisker of the average for my hardware, Cinebench R23 finished between 37-38000, CPU-Z, Intel Diag tool and Prime95 was stable and < 90 degrees.
MCE off, PL1 and PL2 limit to 225, limit P-core boost to 5.3 GHz and E-core boost to 4.0GHz, and use balanced power profile in Windows (although I do disable core parking to keep system highly responsive). Oh and just XMP on the RAM. I didn’t change voltage or LLC values.
With these settings, you should have no stability issues, be able to run on an air cooler like the NH-D15 (what I use on my 3 i9 13th/14th gen systems) and will barely notice any performance changes in gaming or productivity.
Ran into the same issue after a week on a new build with a 14700kf. The issue wsnt the processor or OS. Its the freaking RGB and other utilities. Had to remove Razor Synaptic as the logs were showing errors on it. Have you checked your logs? Im willing to bet youll find the faulting app. Saw some kernel related errors as well. After getting rid of Synaptic, all issues gone.
I still can't run at 6000 MHz either. You're not alone. In fact I found your channel while trying to fix my issues
Now is a good time to check your motherboard's QVL. Get a RAM kit from there. That should help. A lot has been improved.
Yeah man I'm kind of like you but an old guy. I made my daughters amd computers back in the 90's. Always stayed with AMD as I was familiar with them. I have always thought the way Intel has several different platforms for their many dif chips is confusing. That has kept me from trying Intel. Now I don't have to. Your experience is helpful to me. Thankyou
I'm happy I could help you. Thank you for letting me know!
How's the asus x670e-f? I've been back and fourth on getting it with a 7800x3d or the 7900x bundle at @microcenter. Mainly going to be uses for sim racing and other gaming, but want to have the option to stream while gaming and music production. Any guidance on for my build would be much appreciated. I've been putting off the build way too long for the constant want of waiting for newer components to come out, have been trying to decide on a decent gpu to hold me over until the rtx 5000 series comes out
It's a solid option provided it has all the I/O you require (usually the competition provides wider I/O support at the same price, which might not be the case when you buy it in a bundle & likely get a discount).
Find a used 3080 best value for 4k gaming mines been rock solid I play mostly modded Assetto Corsa lots of drifting and Nordschliefe laps some No Hesi I get 80-100 fps in 4k max settings and use a 5600x for a CPU and 32gb of ram it's phenomenal for 4k couldn't be happier
11:32 did you check your IMC stability with Y-cruncher VT3 ???
because Z690 HERo limit at 7000, not 7200.
this video is VERY EYE OPENING for me.....I just upgraded from am4 5900x to am5 7800x3d. I AM HAVING THOSE SAME LATENCY ISSUES U HAD WITH YOUR INTEL SYSTEM!!! but its super intermittent. sometime i boot up the system and its totally fine, game for 4 to 8 hours no issues, but randomly ill boot and the whole system is suppppper sluggish. slow. i reboot 1 or 2 times and the problem goes away. Sometimes my system locks up at boot up. I've done everything to try and figure this out, mobo drivers, chipset drivers.....everything up to date. Even did a full clean install of windows 11. Still pops up every now and again. I've come to the conclusion that its gotta be growing pains of the am5 platform. im waiting on the next mobo driver update hoping it fixes my issues, if not i will be rma'ing the msi x670e tomahawk and try my hand at an ROG or something? my ram kit is the exact same kit as yours also 6000 cl30.
Very interesting and open overview of your experience with the two platforms. As you know, I have both Intel and AMD, and I've had AM5 since its Inception, and like any complete platform change (AMD or Intel), it was a struggle at first; But as time went by it has become completely stable and as reliable as AM4 (which is extremely stable and reliable!). Also, I am able to run ddr5-8000 stable on my AMD systems and 8200 on my Intel. Though either platform will provide a great experience, there are reasons one may want to go with one over the other because of work case scenarios, such as AMD provides more lanes and can more easily be geared toward certain Creator work. Again, great overview of your experiences with the two platforms and looking forward to your upcoming vids!
Thank you for the feedback and for sharing your experiences with me as well. Yes, AM5 has radically improved. I’m looking forward to diving deeper into it now after all the fixes. I’m just disappointed in this latency issue with intel. I’m truly floored by it. This was completely unexpected.
I thought the max you wanted to run was 6000 because it splits in half for each part of the cpu. Did something change, or did you not know that? There is a limitation on am5 that ram speed is split and the max it can do is 6000 because if you do more, it won't split correctly.
@@raven80wolfx2 With the Agesa updates, AMD can run ddr5 at 8000, and running at 8000 in gear 2 has the benefit of FClk and UClk running at the same speed - so, there is no buffering like there would be when running at 6000 with FClk and UClk running at different speeds. With that said however, now the question becomes does your application scale with latency or does it scale with bandwidth!? If latency is of upmost importance, then run at 6000 with tight timings. And if throughput is more important for the apps you run, then 8000 would be beneficial. Hope that is helpful.
Just out of curiosity??? Did you try a z790 board as I personally had nothing but nightmares with the z690 platform???
I tried one very briefly for my recent review of a Z790 board. But I have not used it as my daily driver yet.
@@ErockOnTech I personally had a z690 with ddr5 and it was nothing but BSOD time and time and even once I stabilized it, I would get constant audio and cursor lags, so I upgraded to an asus strix z790-a with the same cpu (13900k) and Ram 2 16GB at 7200hz (note: it only works stable with 2 sticks only) and it’s been rock solid
I love it all brother, built an amd 7800x3d and an i713700k, got a couple gpus, need a Good nvida and thinking about maybe an arc770 to see what it can do, drivers be darned.
I use that ram pretty much exclusively, which is weird maybe, idk. Only been back into my tech world for about a year but already built 2 pcs. Im like you bro, work for a living but love this, always had. No fanboy here.👍💯🇺🇸
5800X + 6800 here greenfield PC in June 2022. Still with this rig procured for 10-year life on AMD targeting Haswell 5960X EE replacement with 5800X LC LP no problem for the next 10 years. Good report. mb
14900K and 14700K a push, a few more 14700 E cores choke that processor bus IF u'r apps are compiled for E cores. Ok stabalize the memory frequency. Off it for sale on the Manhattan city listings, sell it to some HPC shop; 7200 MHz. mb
They r snappy Raptor i9 is HPC segment targeted because in the HPC market on the best of arbitrage they just work. mb
Good side Hussle writing Raptor applications that relay on Raptor P cores and optimize by offloading specific processing codes to E cores and when possible as a SIMD array Erock how many times to have to restate that? mb
Good job open box within the run end clearance sale kit price on "what is my sales close incentive" as in bundle deal Erock contact me and I will give u a list of all the AMD and Intel CPUs volume retail gets for FREE and the CPUs too. The channel is liquidating everything to reclaim their capital investment. mb
My AMD system boots up in around 10 seconds now, but my old motherboard was troublesome in many cases. Everything you mentioned I had that problem x 10. I returned two Gigabyte Master high-end boards before switching from an X670E AORUS MASTER (rev. 1.x) to a PRIME B650M-A WIFI II. Now, everything is functioning smoothly and quickly. I downgraded the specs significantly, but I'm satisfied with the performance. Also, my motherboard might have had a compromise at the factory, and I've read that Asus had similar issues with some of theirs.
I also had serious studder and performance issues with my MSI Raider GE78HX 13950HX with Windows 11 around October of last year. It's definitely a Windows idle/power scheduler problem. I've had zero issues with my Zen 3 systems and Win 11. A later MSI bios/UEFI, Tweaks. And newer Windows updates fixed my issues. I was almost ready to return the laptop over how laggy it was. Using the 14900k as your gaming bench setup sounds good to me. I ended up skipping the whole Zen 4 and waiting to see how Zen 5 shapes up before upgrading. Thanks for your thoughts on these issues ErockOnTech.
Thank you! I’m happy to keep sharing my thoughts and experiences as I have them. I appreciate your insight as well with your experiences.
Hey, if I buy a 7800x3D will I need to bios flash for it to be compatible? It's my first time building a pc and am a little nervous to update the bios that way.
Thank you
Its the first gen on the am5 socket. Im sure that it will work without flashing the bios.
I've had both amd and intel and various issues with both, especially if I bought it when it was a new platform. And I've had both just work as well. Same for amd/ati vs nvidia gpus.
hey erock,did u update ur bios to the latest version which came out yesterday?fill me in about results.
Hi Erock. Have you tried 4 sticks of ram on the AM5 platform and was it stable?
I haven’t tried it yet no. I only tried 2 and so far, very stable. But it’s known that you will get lower speeds on 4 sticks. This is due to the density of DDR5 ram kits.
On that I have only seen one or two kits that are actually EXPO. One was G.Skill $1000 the other was Kingston $650.
Also, may depend on motherboard vendor and model.
Gigabyte seems to support the wider array of RAM.
You cannot buy two 2 stick sets and expect them to work together at full speed if at all.
It might sound like a stupid suggestion but I'd recommend trying disabling Windows Fast Boot. That is if you're finding that a lot of these issues go away after a restart but persist between shutdowns.
By default, the Shut Down option doesn't actually shut your PC down properly anymore. It actually puts the system into a kind of hibernate mode in order to speed up boot times, but that leads to all sorts of issues in my experience.
The setting you need to change is hidden away in Control Panel under something like "Change what the power buttons do". Or you can disable Fast Boot in your mobo BIOS settings. Either works.
Have a look in Task Manager at your PCs up time and you may be surprised to see its actually been running the same session for days or even weeks, if you haven't done a proper Restart and have only been using Shut Down.
Great video!I am really confused on which package & model of gpu & cpu to buy.I have been recommended to this package:
AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D Processor

Deepcool AK400 DIGITAL - AFTERSHOCK Edition

Gigabyte B650M Gaming Wifi

Gigabyte RTX 4090 Windforce V2 - 24GB

32GB Team T-Force Delta RGB 6000mhz (16x2)

2TB Lexar NQ710 Gen4 SSD

850W Deepcool 80+ Gold ATX3.0 (ZC850D)

AX Wireless + Bluetooth Included
Is this package powerful & fast enough to run majority of AI applications & video rendering/editing?Does the number of cores and threads in CPU affect the performance & speed of AI workloads?Should i buy intel or AMD processor?
I would like to hear your recommendation 😍
Did you try another mobo other than asus?
Built my 7800x3d rig beginning of March and have had zero issues.
Fun knowledge: when I tore down my old AMD rig for disposal the thermal paste was black and had boiled down to just where the cooling coils were located, in 9 yrs of use that rig NEVER overheated, which is why I chose to stay with amd, but just seeing the old cpu confirmed I made a good decision.
I also jump from LGA1700 with core i7 13 gen to AM5 with Ryzen 9 7900X3D to my gaming Rig and i’m very happy. Cpu take 60-80W in gaming and i have core i9 14 gen performance in games or better but Intel take 150w or more in games…and is hot even with good AIO, Ryzen is cold :-) paired with 6000mhz DDR5 Kingston Expo and RTX4090 Zotac ;-)
I've had my fights with AM5 as well, when my MAG X670E refused to work with my DDR5-6000 kit. Had to enter all timing values manually to get it to run stable. Never had issues outside of it. If AMD fixes the IMC issue with the next generation, then they will be in a much better position in terms of memory compatibility.
AM5 is already better than it was a year ago. But yes, next AMD CPUs should have better memory compatibility/stability etc.
I would definitely try a fresh Win 11 to see if it fixes the latency. It’s most probably software related.
Did you try a different motherboard?
I've been encountering some serious issues with Intel chips lately, especially when it comes to gaming. I initially tested three 14900K chips, and only one of them worked fine initially. However, after just a month of use, even the good one started exhibiting the same lag issues. I switched to 14900KS chips, hoping for better performance, but unfortunately, the problem persists. Intel's chips are known for their speed, but this recurring issue really needs to be addressed and fixed.
That is very strange you couldnt get stable at 6000, my 7800x3d system has been running stable at 6200mhz since the bios update just after the chip release.
Havent had any crashes at all since I bought the chip, which was about 2 weeks after the chip was available in Aus.
Also Im curious what your actual boot times were for the AM5 chip vs the intel chip, I have my boot time clocked at 11 seconds with a gen4 7200 write M.2
i just had problems with latency on my mouse that i had for several years too (logitechG603) on my 5800x3d. And it was that the receiver was making interferences it seams. Y just plug the receiver on a extender usb cable, and fixed. Just saying because it looked just like you are showing. Im using windows 11 btw and i think that some update plus the receiver was the problem in my case.
Now with problems on intel cpu ( heat and unstable cpu) till need to set cpu to run slower so that it will be stable ? so is intel cpu more stable than AMD ? or .......
I haven't had my computer last a year without an upgrade since 2019 to where the only original part might be a sata cable. I currently have a 7800x3d and 7900xtx that is more than enough for my gaming needs, but I always have the urge to change the fans out or add an SSD or more ram, etc..
lol the sata cable comment has me rolling. Thats hilarious. I understand the struggle man. PC building is addicting.
This sounds like a driver issue brother. Did you update any drivers before this issue started after install windows?
I have updated Windows numerous times as Windows seems to have an update almost every day now. I updated my Bios. I also used the Intel Driver and Support Assistant just last night for the first time. I was hoping that would help. But sadly not. With that being said, Intel is officially investigating 13th and 14th gen CPU instability now. videocardz.com/newz/intel-13th-14th-core-raptor-lake-gaming-instability-is-now-being-investigated
Very well done video. AM5 has matured pretty well over the last 12 months and one of the advantages going for it is that it will support future generation CPUs. On a personal note, I value power efficiency which automatically rules out Intel in my purchasing decision at the moment. Not saying that Intel CPUs are bad, but they are just not for me at the moment.
At the end of the month, the electricity bill makes a difference... Especially in countries with high k-watt prices like we have in Europe.
That’s a good point as well. I’m in the US so that isn’t as much of a factor for me but it does still matter!
@@ErockOnTech Guys with luck.... It can't be bad for everyone either. Let me describe my experience with a 7800x3d and 6000 memory. When I bought and started the pc with xmp it gave me memory errors and it was working fine when I increased the voltage from 1.35 to 1.4, I updated the bios and the memory was working fine at 1.35, I thought let's tighten the subtimes and to my amazement now I have them all the subtimes very tight and without errors. Volt from 1.25 socket went to 1.2 volts, memories with xmp voltage and tight sub times for more than 6 months without problems. With memory tuning I saw drastic improvements in 0.1 fps. Hugs my friend and courage to face the fan boys
In hardware, power use is pure marketing nonsense, mostly propagated by nVidia. You'll find no significant savings on comparable hardware, sku for sku. (IE 14700k vs. 7800x3D, or RTX 4060 vs 7600xt). This even applies to high cost markets, you will not find any significant savings by choosing one brand over another.
User settings are *_far_* more important in power use.
I had the same issues with the latency with windows 11. Reinstall fixed it
How long has it been since you did the reinstall? Did the latency ever come back?
I have a new build 7800x3d and get random crashes with 6000mhz cl30. It’s much less in the last 1-2 weeks. I got this because all the tubers said 6000 cl30 is the sweet spot and runs fine on XMP.
If I start getting more frequent crashes again I don’t know what to do.
Use the 7800x3d as your main. Wipe the 14900k build and start from scratch, slowly testing and adding programs over time. If you become "the guy" that figured out what combination of software/updates breaks latency on Intel, that decimal place in your subs would move to the right :)
Regarding the intel, have tried updating the bios? is the ram module in the list of supported ram? Have you tried instead of adjusting the timing of the ram, just dial down the speed to let's say 6000 mhz? Using the intel support assistance, download all the necessary software for intel? updating the gpu to the latest driver? undervolting the cpu? Using Armoury crate from ROG to update drivers?
Yes my bios is fully up to date. Yes, the ram is on the supported list for this specific motherboard. Yes, I’ve tried default speeds with no XmP profile, I’ve tried XmP and XmP tweaked and I have tried manually lowering the speeds like you suggested. I have also tried running the bios at “optimized defaults”. I also tried overclocking to add more speed anywhere I could. I do use armory crate. It is fully up to date. My GPU drivers are fully up to date as well. Windows is also fully up to date. I haven’t tried to manually undervolt the system. I could try that but I heard other people try that and it didn’t work for them. What software for intel do you have in mind? I have XTU installed.
@@ErockOnTech I have downloaded the intel driver support assistant and let it download everything including the igpu drivers. I don't even remember most of what's downloaded but I just let it do its thing. I also made sure the igpu is enabled in bios. Made also sure that windows is up to date. Have you tried not putting the nvme ssd in the top most slot? I heard it shares bandwidth with the first pcie slot. Don't know if it affects anything but I think it's worth the try.
@@alrizo1115I’ll try that specific utility and see if it helps. But my windows is up to date. I tried enabling and disabling the iGPU. Neither worked for me.
@@ErockOnTech also please do check the task manager , if you have already, when the stuttering happens. Probably the one peaking to 100% must be the culprit. It could also be the ram, gpu, storage
Great video seems like you have really bad luck with PC hardware.
I'm sticking to my 5800x3D for as long as I can, since its rock solid.
My RTX3080Ti acted up a few weeks ago and I RMA'd and got a 4070Ti Super.
Guess what the symptoms were:
Massive lag spikes when running launching most apps, I got a slideshow with windows logon with lots of mouse lagging etc, similar to your intel latency issues but worse, I think.
I did however notice issues with my PCIe lanes before I took my PC in with it being all over the place between x8 1.1 to x8 4.0 even when running a full GPU load.
Anyway, after I replaced my GPU with a 4070Ti Super all my issues went away, in fact many things in my system actually improved.
Never saw an issue like that before so yeah.
Did you try using a different ram? Try 6000 MTS ram kits to make sure its not a stability issue.
I built a 7700X system on Asus Prime B650 board with 32gb Gskill FlareX 6000 mhz CL30. Clicked Expo and it just ran.
While I certainly have my preferences, I love all of it. In my three PCs across my house, I have a blend of everything. Main rig I always tend to stick to Intel for no real reason other than they’ve just been really reliable over the years until recently. Main rig - 14900k/7900XTX, Bedroom - 5800x3D/7900XT, and living room - 13600k/3080 10GB.
I use my main rig more than anything and I’ve certainly had some issues with the 14900k. Partially my own fault. The RAM I was using just hated my motherboard. G Skill 6400MHz on a board only rated to support up to 6000 is that portion I blame myself for not paying attention. Even under clocking it though down to 6000, the board just hated those sticks. Ended up swapping to a Corsair 6000 cl30 kit and it’s been flawless since. No more blue screens or game crashes. Secondly was the obvious… temps. Even my 360aio was struggling. Ultimately just forced all limits in bios and it’s finally settled down. I do feel like my pc is slow to boot and not sure why. Even before 14900k when I was using the 13600k it did the same thing no matter what I’d do. Beginning to think it’s the motherboard which is an older z690. Since moving the 13600k to the Living room with a newer z790, I don’t experience any of these other issues. Even using that old kit at 6400 and it’s perfectly stable and also boots quickly. My AMD build I use far less than any of the others. Most of the time I’m just watching some CZcams on it before bed but it’s not given me a single issue ever.
Disable XMP and try the mouse again. I had this exact latency on my Ryzen 7 7700X with EXPO enabled. It was eventually fixed with BIOS updates. But seems like this latency is caused by unstable RAM.
My 7800x3d cant run 5200mhz stable what do u think i should do it can only run 5000mhz and i still sometimes get long delays in between each game?
Latency issue does sound weird. If drivers are up to date, then it's probably a software issue. I would look at Event Viewer to see if there is some rogue process clogging up the system. RGB control perhaps? A clean install of Windows might be the solution if nothing else works, and after that paying attention to what is installed. If the latency issue crops up again, then it's probably due to something that was recently added.
with intel, if its ddr5 a 2 dimm board is a must. 4 dimm is ok if its ddr4. 4 dimms for ddr5 with intel , your gonna spend alot of time in the bios to get the issues to go away but i will say that you will learn a ton by doing it. i would say keep both systems, and keep messing with them. everything is a learning experience. some see it as a pain but i enjoy it because it will show me things i can pass onto others
Well I thought 4 dimm boards were ok only if you utilize only 2 dimms. I don’t see why the extra dimms would be a problem if they are never used.
Also, I appreciate the advice. Good feedback!
@@ErockOnTech its a major issue trust me the 2 dimm only boards are much better
As building new pc, I'm sad I have to pick problems that will be easier to deal with. Rather than just building system that just works.
I hear you and understand. Here is my advice. Go with AMD. Get a DDR5 RAM kit that is on your motherboard's QVL. For your first boot, DO NOT USE the xmp/Expo profile. Leave everything stock. Boot into Windows. Install all updates. Then go back to the bios and use the memory overclocking profile. Also, make sure before you do any of this, update your bios.
I have an i7 13700k with a ddr4 MSI Z790 for my office pc. It's great for multitasking, I can never "stall" it, no matter how many tasks I open. (I can even cpu mine on the "P-cores" and use Windows for regular tasks, even play a game on the "E-cores" without a stutter.)
That said, it's been buggy, It required 2 new Windows installs with multiple and a now up to date bios to solve various issues that just suddenly popped up. My gaming pc is a 5800x3d, great for gaming, not great for multitasking, it stalls easily on too many tasks. Cpu mining on it renders it almost useless to do anything else. That said, if I could only take one pc with me to a rural cabin with only dial up internet, I would the 5800x3d pc because it runs issue free, no random bugs.
I just wonder how much of your problem is cpu related vs particular motherboard/motherboard brand (There might be a reason why it was cheap and on sale) and Windows issues with the platform, it's very hard to tell..
Have you tried disabling your e-cores? I have a 12700k and while I don't have the latency issue that your mentioning, disabling e-cores tends to give better performance/less stuttering in games.
After paing 600+ Euros on 14900k i expect that i can use it not to downgrade 😂
Imo, try a diff ram kit, or mobo. It seems like it could be faulty mobo or ram, or combo.
How about the 7950x3d they solved a lot of the initial issues and now it’s on par with the 7800x3d sometimes a touch faster and you can take advantage of the extra cores for editing and stuff. Cheers 🎉
I'm relieved I'm not the only one with AM5 issues. There was many afternoons, many nights i spent angry and frustrated with all the problems associated this new platform. So many glitches, broken factory bios, PC sometimes boots, somtimes not. Random crashes. I finally found stable settings but I simply CANNOT change 1 single thing in BIOS concernin RAM, Expo or anything system related, except CPU OC, that works normally.
This still occurs on newest BIOS update from ASUS (February 2024).....I'm on B650 planning on buying next X870 when Zen 5 comes out