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The only thing we can be sure of is that they are definitely MEWING

Nice work dude thanks

Nice work dude thanks

The video is quite well made and I appreciate the work that went into it. You are very accomplished. Unfortunately the apologetics for the Ban of the Valar are simply contrived. This is not your doing but Tolkien's own. As we all admire Tolkien and his works, I understand the desire to excuse his cognitive dissonance on this topic. Tolkien himself was given to similar mental gymnastics for his Catholic faith and the parallels are most likely not coincidental. Yet the sheer and obvious dishonesty has always angered me. I would rather the Valar had been as direct about Men in Aman as Odin was in speaking of a human in Asgard: "She does not belong here in Asgard any more than a goat belongs at a banquet table!" Tolkien marked the path of Men in his stories but didn't like where it led. Yet he couldn't change the outcome lest his Men diverge too sharply from actual human beings as he saw them. The "Gift of Men" was Tolkien's contrived exit and the mystery and lack of detail surrounding it was fobbing off his audience (and perhaps himself).

The Black Gate Opens. The Mouth of Sauron rides out, his master believes Aragorn has the ring. Gandalf parleys with the Mouth, and during the discussion receives tokens that must at least increase his fear that Frodo has failed and Sauron has the ring. Both sides know they don't have the ring, both sides fearful the other has it and is about to use it against them. And then the dialogue between Gandalf and the Mouth, just superb.

Absolutely loved this. Great analysis. Thanks 🧝‍♂️

Yeah I think dwarf should just stay the heck away from Moria. It always been cursed to begin with. There no matter of time before whatever lurks in those dark pit will soon climb up and unleash a 3rd darkness. And this time they wont have Gandalf to help them. Men must find their own way to deal with them. Moria should be abandon and never reclaim again coz noone can ever know what terrifying secret those nameless things may have down there. The entire mine is just an eerie feeling its like you always being watched and it's haunted. Durin's bane might be gone and there might still be lot of goblins in there not to mention the Goblin King and his kingdom lives inside the misty mountain. I think Dwarf should rather stay in their Iron Hills and Erebor and leave Moria behind. I really wish there would be a movie about the Nameless things their mysteries just keep coming in to my mind and I too curious what they are like. They not afraid of Sauron and Sauron knows them not, that just tells how terrifying they might been. So frightening that Gandalf doesn't dare to speak about. And my wondering is how Balrog manage to survive down there without them notice him? Maybe they were afraid of the Balrog and didn't dare face a maia but still who knows how big or many they are in the dark foundation of stones. Perhaps they are also a maia a cursed maia, a maia that been long forgotten by time. Doesn't even carry a name just nameless.

The Scouring. Obv.

Great analysis

Nice work dude thanks

Nice work dude thanks

Nice work dude thanks

"There it is said that they lie imprisoned in the caves of the Forgotten, until the Last Battle and the Day of Doom." Punished with immortality.

This is a great video! About the statues, I wondered if Morgoth created his dragons based off the dragons Erü created to guard the Door of Night.

Brilliant video man!

Please come back and make a few new videos exploring philosophical aspects of Tolkien's work. I have watched and rewatched all the videos many times 😢

❤

Dorwinion ???

Thanks!

Yes, nailed this one.I wont entertain, endless discussion.I will however tell you, I read the Ring Books circa summer 1967, you may draw your own conclusions as to that.Enjoy the vids ...

I wonder rather why Sauron decided to magically/mystically infuse the “greater part of his essence” into an object that could conceivably be separated from him or even destroyed. I realize, of course, that the One Ring was created to deceive the elves and those others who accepted the various rings of Power from Celebrimbor and Annatar. In this way, Sauron’s master ring would give him control over and knowledge of all who wore the other rings. Yes, by controlling the acts of those who wore the other rings, he could extend his will to dominate the peoples who were governed by the Ring Wearers (elves, dwarves, men). But the elves took their three rings off immediately and the dwarves proved resistant to the rings they were given, so that plan of Sauron’s flopped a bit. Men who wore the rings, of course, proved quite maneuverable (becoming Nazgul and turning their armies toward evil.) Still, that doesn’t explain why he actually infused the greater portion of his being into the One Ring. Did sequestering this predominant essence in a separate talisman he wore actually increase his power? Why would that increase his power if he already possessed that native strength in his own essence? Why split it up, when there was a chance that the ring might, hypothetically, be taken from him (as it was), thus diminishing his personal power, or at least complicating the use of his full native power? It would also appear that Sauron, even as he rose again and began to take shape after the Last Alliance, believed he could still attain great strength (and even a physical form) once again *without* his ring, for it’s clear that he assumed the ring had been destroyed by the elves of the Last Alliance. It seems odd that he was not astonished that he could survive and grow again even with his ring destroyed. Yet he clearly felt compelled to recreate himself while believing the Ring was destroyed, and that the elves presumably knew how to destroy it, until he discerned that the ring had actually survived and he began looking for it. Perhaps there are thematic parallels with Morgoth’s Ring, i.e. the fabric of the very earth, but Sauron’s “Precious” was a talisman, not an entire world. It seems a bit inconsistent for Tolkien to have written in one of his commentaries that Sauron remade himself thinking that his enemies had indeed destroyed the ring after the war of the Last Alliance, and yet in the books, it is made clear that one of the key plot points centers upon the Wise in their belief that Sauron (in his arrogance) could never even imagine anyone actually destroying the ring, thus allowing Frodo and Sam to sneak it into Mount Doom. Sauron did not conceive of this strategy. He thought one of the Wise would use it against him. Perhaps the Wise, collectively, deduced more about Sauron’s ring than Sauron knew himself (which seems unlikely) because it remains a tiny “plot curiosity.” Why store the greater portion of his power in the ring, beyond the need to control other ring-bearers? Why was did he not realize the ring had survived from the start when he began to renew himself? Why did he think no one would dare attempt to destroy the ring when he already assumed it had been destroyed after the Last Alliance. Perhaps all of this tells us that Tolkien believed Sauron *could* eventually find a way to come back even with the one ring destroyed. #RiddlesInTheDark

I agree, that was Eru himself who sent him back, and unveiled the wisest of the Istari.I am fearful of Sauron, My Lord Manwe , that is why you must go ...

One of my favorite characters, Jackson did him a disservice and was a very powerful Elf .5 of the Nazgul fled from him, even Gandalf only faced 4 at Weather Top..

Does not make sense. If good light had fundamental authority over bad light, why so many extreme wars were necessary? Just send Jesus Gandalf to exercise the demon out of Melkor on day one, kick back and relax for the rest of existence.

I am with you on the Lask King of Gondor theory... He and his company were never seen again kinda implies they were slaughtered for their audacity in daring to confront Sauron as some sort of equal. Tolkien would have said the Mouth of Sauron was the last King. Thats an interesting story and an important occurance in the history... Sauron's puppet would be the rightful heir to the throne and you can bet Sauron would be using that to supplant Denethor and take Gondor without a fight. He would rather dominate than destroy. He offers every single kindgom that opportunity before bringing war to them... to be an ally (slave) rather than be destroyed. Thats his M.O. Thats what Sauron wants... to control and manipulate to create the balance in the world he thought it needed. He wasn't evil for evil's sake... he was like a Bond villian, he had ambitions to "fix" everything wrong as he saw it, he despised the free will of the people and the chaos it allowed. Its not mentioned once is the elaborate and concise histories Tolkien invented for the world he created, and Tolkien was very longwinded and thorough.

"....and man would have to deal with his own nature." A dark story indeed.

How much interpretation do you think we can read in to the powers of the Valar? I’ve got a kind of theory about Melkor (and by association the others) but I don’t want say it in case it’s pointless 🫣

Tolkien ? Power seeker 👑 Chakra / K

Aulë's HR Department needs to get its hiring criteria sorted out.

Sauron’s pretense to claim equality to Morgoth was arrogance exhibited by an increasingly twisted mind. He was a divine entity, indeed, yet not remotely the equal of his master. He was (arguably) not even as mighty as various peers; Melian seems to have been a Maia of such power that even Morgoth feared her, much less Sauron, who was subdued and wounded by her half Maia daughter, Luthien. So Melian seems to have been of a higher order even than Sauron. In the same way, he abased himself before Eonwe, who, as Tolkien described (I think) as mightiest of the Maiar, in conjunction with Ilmare, handmaid of Varda. Moreover, Sauron, though cunning and resourceful beyond all worldly tyrants after Morgoth’s exile, also feared certain of the High Eldar, as did his former Master. Tolkien emphasized that, due to Eru’s dispersion of gifts among his elven children, certain especially artful elves actually “surpassed the Valar in the glory of their Arts”-creating and doing things even the Valar could not do. So the “power dynamic” was highly nuanced in Tolkien’s mythology, and not always categorical, by any means. Feanor, for example, repelled Morgoth himself with a great act of forceful rejection (slamming the door in the god’s face). Morgoth was wounded for life by elvish art and combat skill. Sauron strove in vain against the perceptive powers and some magics of Galadriel, who was Feanor’s equal, according to Tolkien, while she pierced his consciousness. Likewise, Sauron feared the inherent power of a true and good human king like Aragorn. He surely must have feared Gandalf the resurrected, though apparently unaware of his transformation from Grey to White. Yes, raw strength for raw strength, Sauron was more powerful than any great Child of Eru, but if some of those unique Powers could outfox him by virtue of their unique Arts, Strengths, and Wisdom, he could be not only repelled by vanquished. Felagund matched him in magical combat until weakening at a crucial juncture. A mortal king was involved in his death in combat-it took three of to do it, and they perished, but those three “lesser” powers felled the great Maia. Sauron was more threatening in his legions than as an individual, his power dispersed by control of wills. Again, this all hearkens back to the fluid nature of sheer power and creative Art (magic/magical engineering) that some of the Caliquendi and High Numenoreans possessed in Tolkien’s mythos. Even with his ring, Sauron was beatable, as the Last Alliance denouement proved. He feared much more than his Master, Morgoth, but proclaiming himself as the returned Morgoth in the Third Age was just pure marketing from a comparative also-ran tyrant.

Varda is in her essence the very antithesis of Melkor/Morgoth-in her holy use of Light, or in her “Light-ness,” as Eru intended Light to “be”, her power is the absolute negation of Melkor’s essence, in every way. This is made all the worse for Melkor because, while he craves Light, his hunger for it is warped and twisted. This craven thirst for something even he cannot begin to understand (as Eru created it) is in itself a primordial lie, a cosmic note of incomprehensible discord. She may not possess the brute force of Tulkas or Manwe or Ulmo, but the essence of her power is nevertheless his greatest threat. I think that Varda is a literary amplification of Tolkien’s Catholic devotion to the Virgin Mary, the simple woman who rejected darkness, yet who by grace became a willing vessel of the Light that obliterates evil/darkness. An unexpected power that should not, in the estimation or measurement of the world, have any power against the brutal, elemental forces represented by Morgoth, Sauron, etc. Yet Varda is, in the simplicity of her Luminousness, the mightiest destruction of all Powers that seek to twist Eru’s ultimate plan for creation. Melkor was wise to fear her … and damned to lust after her from before Time itself.

This is prime categorical or meme-based thinking. Instead of thinking what Sauron is, the author thinks "what label do I put on Sauron? The Dark Lord, of course. Now, there are these things that I think of when I think about the Dark Lord trope, and these things don't fit with Sauron - well, it definitely means that Sauron doesn't make sense!".

Seeing this as an inconsistentcy is just "power levels brainrot". Like which ring has a bigger number. Simply saying: captain of a sports team is not automatically the best player on the team.

He hissed at Sam's dad and he hissed at Dain at Erebor. Both instilled a level of fear. This is all the evidence needed to put an end to the debate.

IN DEEP GEEK puts out BS content half the time. He doesn't even bring up the possibility that the messanger at Erebor could have been a Nazgul. He states as if its a fact that it was The Mouth of Sauron. Am I the only one who gets pissed off at some of these content creators? Thats kust one example from In Deep Geek. There are many more, seems like at least 1 error/ falsehood on each video. Why is it always the frauds who get all the subscribers? In Deep Geek has 697k subscribers while The Red Book only has 33k. It's the same with sports, ESPN puts out BS information all the time compared to some smaller content creators who actually have professional integrity. It's too bad because the false ideas end up being spread and the truth gets only a fraction of the views

Great work and content friend!💯💢 how i didnt see your channel before man!? Refreshing and definitely original! boom💢 ! new subscriber ! 😉

If sauron dominated the numenorians thru the ring then it wasnt their fault they worshipped morgoth or anything else they were being bewitched by magic or supernatural means.

Well done and pondered. Your Tolkien explorations are the most thoughtful and insightful I have discovered on the Internets, and are rendered in beautifully atmospheric ways. This is an especially important treatment because it dovetails with some of the core belief systems at work in Tolkien’s own spiritual journey, his devout Catholicism, but also his willingness to imagine supernatural roles outside dogmatic Catholicism within the context of his fantastical, historical, sociological, and linguistically derived portrayals. As a Master of Arts in ancient Christian Patristic theology and especially Byzantine development in tandem with that ecclesiology in Late Antiquity, I have always sensed that Tolkien (who would have been quite aware of such themes) incorporated some of the proto-orthodox Christian strains of belief (stemming from the 2nd, 3rd, and early 4th Centuries) into his panorama of Valinor and Middle Earth and its denizens. There are what might be called esoteric elements in Tolkien’s delineation of the Valar, I believe, as Demi-Urge and Archon-type figures who, quite apart from the One supreme, ineffable force (Eru) were given the freedom to shape the world Eru empowered and “called into essential, if not complete, existence” according to *their* gifts. This is a responsibility rather more complex and delegated than the Catholic Christian role ascribed, ultimately, to the angelic hierarchies, who, in the coalescence of Orthodoxy were strictly limited to roles as messengers, attendants, and governmental roles over various earthly nations strictly according to God’s already established creation. Of course, there existed the issue of rebellious angelic beings (e.g. Lucifer-who was not portrayed early in Judaic tradition as an enemy, but rather as a necessary accuser and ally of God who served his purpose to highlight the faithlessness of God’s people. This is a huge dichotomy from his later relegation to an evil corrupter and enemy of all that is/was good.) Before this became the Orthodox bedrock belief in the 5th Centuries and beyond, there was a great diversity of opinion among Christian sects as to the roles played by the angels, and this was manifest, as well, in ancient Jewish esoterica. In these “Gnostic” circles (“Gnostic” being an increasingly emic and outdated scholarly term) the angelic beings were not mere managers and stewards of God’s vast creation, but they were active participants in the creation of the physical world itself, according to their gifts. For example, one predominant esoteric myth from the 2nd and 3rd century Christian circles has the Demi-Urge (or the Archon) actually *creating* the physical Adam of its own power, but unable to make Adam move or breathe or be animate. The one God fulfills that role in the myth, imparting life and spirit, but it is made clear that the work was a collaborative effort and not entirely according to God’s intentional blueprint, as it were. Other angelic beings likewise occupied roles of power over creation according to their own dispositions and inclinations (hints of this are even present in Old Testament writings and a few New Testament passages that esoteric groups latched onto to support their positions-all of which were upheld in order to better explain the exasperation question of a “good” God who created a world rife with suffering and treachery and torment. Again, the Valar seem to occupy this earlier, more intensive role in Tolkien’s work as actual creators and embellishers of the nascent, unformed “world” that Eru had fashioned but had not completed. The Valar were not mere watchers and sentinels and overseers. Quite the opposite. They were lesser god-figures, with some of them (Melkor and Aule) managing to work secret achievements in wholly creative ways that went against Eru’s mysterious plan, e.g. Aule’s creation of the dwarves. After the colossal betrayals of Melkor and the tribulations with Numenor and the sundering of the world by Eru himself, the faithful Valar kept a distance and played more of a careful, considered, wisdom-infused role in their guardian ship of Middle Earth. I belief Tolkien contrived this to emphasize that, after the Valar had essentially created the various physical aspects of the world as they saw fit, and that it had beauty, they stepped back and realized that the freedom of its peoples was the cost of true creation and Destiny. Their graces could still be invoked (as we see throughout Tolkien’s tales) but after the militant battle/expulsion of Morgoth, the Valar stepped back and provided divine interventions (such as the Istari) that would inspire goodness along the lines of Eru’s mysterious plan, rather than interfere by force of great power and thus compromise the crucial element of freedom required by a world that was to be inherited by Men. This is why the magical efforts of the Istari (at least by Gandalf and Radagast) were more subtle and displayed only when these powers might inspire men to pursue their own paths, rather than puppeteering them into various actions and directions. While Tolkien drew unquestionably from European mythologies to craft his epic masterwork, he also (I believe) drew upon themes in proto-Orthodox Christian tradition to color the personalities and prerogatives of the Valar themselves. And he did this with astounding brilliance. I remain in awe of what shall surely be an enduring-and very real, important-mythology of human understanding and tradition in times to come.

I have a hard time forgiving the Valar for not sending Eonwe to counter the teachings of Sauron while he dwelt in Numenor. He was one of theirs, was on the loose because of them, and it was beyond their capacity to resist him long term. This argument struggles in the Third Age because "oh but they sent the Wizards". In the Second Age.....I have questions.

The Romans, being an inferior naval power, without a standing fleet, being a city state controlling most of Italy, built a thousand ships carrying a hundred thousand men, sent them against Carthage and lost the fleet in a storm. They had multiple fleets. They then built another one sent it within a year. The size of these fleets, and these battles in the 1st Punic War would not be seen again until modern times. The Numenorians, a sea-faring people, with a subcontinent that had been developed for millenia for the purpose of ship building, in their attack on the Undying Lands, almost certainly exceeded all combined numbers in the 1st Punic War. The numbers of men and ships employed would have no equal in human history. (certainly exceeded in tonnage since then though)

Hey I’m new here and I love your videos already. I have a question and hope you or any of your fans answer it. In the film we see saruman pushing Gandalf and the fellowship to go into moria and Gandalf wasn’t very keen on going there. Did Gandalf knew about the existence of Durin’s bane in moria and was he meant to fight the balrog and kill him?

Note that Gandalf doesn't say, "You shall not pass" but "You cannot pass." By declaring who he serves and is speaking with the authority of the Most Holy One, he is making a line the Balrog is not able to cross, no matter what power it brings to bear.

It might be that orcs, like other creatures, had no spirit or soul to be saved. In our world only men can be saved; fallen angels have no path to redemption and grace, nor animals so far as I know. Therefore any sense of repentance for orcs is meaningless, and becoming 'good' is not within them. Tolkien may hesitate to say 'irredeemable', but there has to be a gift of redemption on offer, and only men have it offered, and even then some people reach the end of God's patience with their refusal to change their minds about their rebellion against God and lose their chance of redemption.

one of the bst lotr-lore channels if not the best, gonna watch all of your videos and i hope that you will make more, love this deep-dive lore stuff. Big thumbs up!

I don’t think Tolkien’s quote in The Silmarillion implies any period of disuse of the One Ring. “Again,” in this context, can easily be read as a resumption of use or a continuation of use in a new setting, i.e. back in Mordor. Sauron had been using the One Ring before capture by Ar-Pharazon, he took up the use of his ring again in Numenor, and when Numenor was obliterated, Sauron’s took up the use of his ring again there. There is plenty of room for nuance, and Tolkien makes it abundantly clear that Sauron had the ring in Numenor. As for spirits carrying the ring, the Nazgul themselves were sent to retrieve it however they might. They had no real bodies, yet it is clearly understood that they had the capacity to bring the ring back to Sauron.

I like the Witch King as the Wizard King... As you say, it would open other discussions. However, having him be of a different nature from Gandalf's makes him more terrible; he's more of a mystery, thus a more frightening foe for the White Rider.

The main motivation behind the elves' making of the rings of power is clearly stated in letter 131 and is also mentioned at the beginning of the video. However, in Unfinished Tales it is mentioned that Celebrimbor made the Three with a different power and purpose than the Nine and Seven. Now, when I evaluate these two sources together, I feel like there is a contradiction. Doesn't the difference between the Three and the others in terms of the purpose of construction indicate a difference in this motivation? Since Celebrimbor made the Three for a different purpose than the others, "to preservation, understanding, making and healing" as per the motivation expressed in letter 131, doesn't it show that the Nine and the Seven were also made for a different purpose than the Three? If so, wouldn't this create a conflict in terms of compatibility with the main motivation? I can't get this into my mind.

For me... they kinda look like à hobbit legend born out of gollum...

Hi buddy i am new to your channel, and would like to congratulate yourself on an amazing one too

Imagine asking "why did Sauron make the One Ring if it's so risky?" and then asking "why didn't Sauron make more rings?" in the next "Point". The article seems to be very much trope filled thinking, treating a story, whether real or fictional as one would a video game level where any "feat" is seen as a part of the arsenal. Or a DnD campaign where we jump to equate the ring shifting a wearer into the unseen world to a cloak of invisibility. Or to quote Nietzsche "so absorbed in chasing wittiness, they lose their wits"