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Bro gave up on woman voice half way through lmao

Here are some lore friendly suggestions: Khorne's bloodletters start manifesting. Tzeentch sends in forces to thwart Nurgle. Biomancy should be allowed for emergency healing at the cost of higher peril & corruption risks. Mechanicum Volt Priests vs Dark Mech forces. Fatshark needs to be more creative with their content.

I’m really excited about this update. It appears to give me the agency I want while adding some other cool mechanics and potentially new blessings or perks. Sounds like there will be a whole new round of build mechanic videos coming up!?

What if thunder hammers did an AoE shock like what the new shock mauls have.

Left 4 dead wil be the best.

If people dont like team game stay the fk away from team game you guy bunch of bullies

I would say, at least about ogryns and heavy bolters; that ogryns or at least the average ogryn is too stupid to use a complex weapon system like that, think about it. the ogryn weapons we commonly see are made so that there is not a complicated reloading system, at most they have to pull a bolt back or eject a spent casing like with the grenade launchers and it seems (to me at least) that there is no actual mag release on any of the guns so an ogryn probably would not be able to learn how to use a heavy bolter because the steps for reloading one would be too complicated.

i kinda like darktide. but ive not experienced alot of "poor communication". well in some major cases people don't always notice stuff and so on. But i have alot of fun just smashing and bashing heretics and poxers. But what i kinda find funny is how they say "Chaos space marines would be too tough for the rejects" and i just think back to vermintide 2. as in vermintide the characters easily take on chaos warriors of nurgle who are also in lore " as strong as 3 men, 2'3 meters tall, does not require food or rest" and mind you they are nurgle chaos warriors so they are tough as all hell wearing chaos plate and to see them be butchered is kinda just weird. but i mean a Plague marine could be killed by the rejects. i mean an Ogryn is about the size of a space marine and actually in raw brute strength a fair amount stronger then a space marine, however space marines are dangerous due to their tactical prowess and sheer combat experience. so a Plague marine could be a type of boss, cause while we can face off as against Plague ogryns, chaos spawns and demon hosts (who are insanely dangerous) and even square off against 2 powerful renegade imperial guard captains who are empowered by nurgle. then yea the rejects might be able to square up against a chaos space marine from the death guard. but for weapons that could really be a monster killer for the ogryns could be a "Plasma Cannon" as ogryns who are smart enough have been able to use these plasma cannosn, i mean it would just be a much bigger version of the veteran's "Plasma gun" but i could imagine that the plasma cannon just fireing off that explosive charged shot and pretty much delete whatever is in an area apart from monstrosities and i guess either outright kill Crushers on direct hits and kill bulwarks (even if their shield is up) if you hit their shield due to well it is a massive cannon shot of super heated energy/plasma and a slabshield ain't really gonna be able to handle that

just on your first minute. i think it should be the exact opposite. if you are going to make a game based on an existing ip. LORE COMES FIRST. if you cant balance around it. its not too hard to bring the lore further into the action gaming genre they just have to give the player characters a more expansive loadout.

One thing I'd add about our ogryns is that they are unusually smart. Like almost-normal-human intelligence, especially the Slavic one. Those that have been classed as Auric-level operatives (whatever that would mean in the wider universe)? Not completely unreasonable for them to be issued a heavy bolter for desperate circumstances. However even if that's not allowed the autocannon would be functionally the same thing, in the context of "balancing based on speculative future content".

Hey JTC. Will there be more videos about the modded realm?

I know this isn't "a response" but I do want to say while I actually agreed with the other video on... pretty much everything over your initial balance change suggestions, I found the idea that the lore should be the primary tool used to decide on balance not just a patently terrible idea for *any* video game, especially a multiplayer one, but also obviously long since abandoned. Darktide would not exist if the games balance followed the lore to *any* degree; four random losers would not be able to pull off a fraction of a fraction of what you do during a single game of Darktide (well... maybe some psykers, I know they can get strong, but the presence of psykers in Darktide at all is already kinda contentious with the lore.) It especially throws me off when people DO fall back to the tabletop wargame as the "true" source of lore. First... if we're being that pedantic it's not, the original Rogue Trader was the origin of 40k and from what I can tell is much closer to the newer TTRPG's than it is to the wargame. And secondly... every edition of the wargame messes with the balance in ways which is contradictory with the lore. We shouldn't use wargame rules to determine what weapons are good against what armor because all of that stuff has varied to an extent from one edition to the next! Honestly I don't think there *IS* one single comprehensive "lore" for 40k anymore, it's too messy to work that way at this point. If we are considering lore (which I think we should, as a very much *secondary* criteria after game balance) I'm really not interested in the finer points of "well, flamers were bad against X armor back in 4th edition so they should be nerfed" because those are arguments which really have no end-point. Edit: OK he ended up saying pretty much this but still.

"All hail GW" is about right. FWIW, gw COULD give the ok for ogryns to have a heavy bolter. They could also give the ok for ogryns to have the (very much lore approved) autocannons or any of the underhive gang weapons ogryns use in their spinoff TTG Necromunda. anyway I don't know how to agree or disagree with this video because the cool sci-fi weapons all underperform compared to the not-cool-normie weapons and the game is so poorly optimized that 90% of my thousand hour game time was spent waiting for crap to load.

We really kills me is because of the lore you can't really give Ogryn much. Ignoring the Burst Limiter stuff all of their weapons have to be specifically made for giant cavemen, right down to their guns needing to survive being used as a club. And on top of that we play as FORMER PRISONERS. So the range of weapons is reduced further cause I doubt Grendyl's gonna give Lascannon privileges to an Ogryn that got arrested for Sedition.

They aren't rules they are more like guidelines imo.

At the current time of balancing I am enjoying the iconic lore born weapons: Bolt weapons, Chain weapons, Power Sword, Thunderhammer (Power weapons in general), Plasma Gun, Lasguns et al and even though im not a big fan of the mere Revolver and Knife category I have seen how it made sense a skilled fighter using such "mundane" weapons are swift and "assassin-like" pulling a "David vs Goliath" effect is kind of the plot armor in the balancing, much like the idea of a high recoil (and much of what metafans criticize) on Bolt Weapons and need to take another shot to kill big baddies is the balance that can still fit in lore senses. Ogryn I think will get Autocannon but tmk no Heavy Bolter. Only think so for Autocannon bc of a glib made in a bio for the "Metalfab 97 Yeomen" Ogryn Cosmetic that had a welders face shield seen in Commodores Vestures as of July 12, 2024

Fights about Lore I suspect are proxy fights for disagreements in philosophy. People don’t like to directly address the philosophy that goes into creating escapism (philosophy is a bridge into, yet also a hole in the wall of, immersion). If the philosophy of any IP is well understood by the creators contributing to it, the Lore and details of any project will come out close enough to feel true (understanding is like having a seed for a random element generator). Conversely, the energetic enforcement of the “Lore accurate details” functionally lessens the chance of mutation in the philosophy from the bottom up. It’s a proxy fight. For my two cents, a lot of the wargear seems 25-45% too small. And the game’s bolter seems to function close enough to the lore of the bolt pistol. The game’s actual bolt pistol is what it is. The movement, gameplay loop, and level design are all pretty great in the game’s current iteration. See you on the Morning Star.

I think a better approach would be to balance for the "feel" and "power fantasy" of the weapon to guide them into gameplay niches that they can fill. Bolter feels like a powerful weapon, and is described so in the lore, so allowing players to fullfill that power fantasy (within reason, to not invalidate every other gun) should be the goal. At the end of the day, as long as bolter feels fun to use, people wont complain that its not 100% lore-accurate.

40k lore has no retcons. Only a collection of unreliable narrators.

If you think the bolt gun needs buffs then you have a skill issue. A YOU problem.

Launch Bolter was perfect. Fight me.

You’re getting your lore wrong on Nork; he was unusually smart by natural Ogryn standards, and there is no indication if he ever received BONE augmentation. The Ogryn in Darktide are all implied to have undergone the augmentation process (one Voice type outright confirming it), so I think we can allow more complicated weapons like the HBolter or rotator cannon into the game. One of the hardest things to do in games with a rich narrative background is capture that scaling of power without breaking balance. I don’t think there’s any game that truly reached that ideal, so my stance is gameplay with a deal of respect. Darktide is already in that position, given the copious amount of access to Boltguns, power weapons, exotic ammunition for stub weaponry, and the fact half the psykers haven’t been executed on the spot.

Now this might be really controversial but I thought that the bolt gun should have not been in the game for a handful of reasons 1 lore reason the recoil on that gun is think was enough to break the shoulder and ribcage of a normal human so there that 2 you could never do it justice, It would eather have to be op in all things or it would just not feel right because if its underpowered people get mad but if its to strong people also get mad but there is one reason it is funny I think to balance the bolter its would be a mid range special killer that EATS ammo so you dont use it with alot of mobs because of how valuable thoughts rounds are

In tabletop a few groups of guardsmen can kill a 10 thousand years chaos terminator

Warhammer has so much lower it’s bound to contradict itself because there’s so many different people right and creed and stuff for the franchise haven’t played the game in a while so I can’t really comment on the balance. I wouldn’t care if the Ogren had heavy boulder or some sort of equivalent.

It seems as though battlesector is the closest video game example of the tabletop game

Old fat redditers are maulding n start to foam at the mouth when you mention something like this. I want more weapons, bad ass weapons, n I don't care about lore. Edit: I wouldn't put it past GW to create an electronic video game version of tabletop warhammer (like magic the gathering did) n make it stupid expensive n full of nfts or some bullshit.

All we want is lore accurate weapons, how the fuck a bitch ass dagger guna do more damage than ANY bolt gun what so ever? These are the same damn weapons space marines use........ And a dagger our performs them.....

This is kind of a nothing burger video. I get it need to produce content so people can consume content. I hardly see anyone go THIS SHOULD BE LIKE THE TABLE TOP. So almost every point in this video is generally moot. I also do not understand what the point of this video is? Just to say hey stop saying this game should be like table top?? Which I do not think ever really happens?? People just reference the lore that they know of or the common understood principles from mainstream content for 40k. When people want "Lore accurate" they want the weapons to do generally what they feel like the should do. A bolter pistol should be able to outright kill a enemy DESIGNED to explode in one shot. OR the Locke Boltgun should be able to kill a clump of groaners in one shot etc. I am not saying the game should be balanced by LORE, it should play a part but gameplay/fun/balance should take the lead. Lore is all over the place by design, making it so you can have wiggle room, hence the retcons galore etc. If you follow the books, different authors say for example the common Lasgun, (not variant or modified ones) can sometimes melt armor, punch holes straight through Flak/some vehicles, while other times it tickles flesh needing repeated hits to the same spot to cause damage... Also the flamer absolutely kills everything outside of crushers right now.. so not sure what that point was..

Look in the table top a guardsman can kill Angron with the right rolls and commands so all I'm saying is its clear in warhammer anyone can be a badass if they have enough balls. In lore guardsman have done crazy shit you guys are more decked out then a guardsman therefore people need to just understand that. But the Bolter should be stronger agreed the gun is appearantly easier to handle in lore then the game portrays and the gun isn't nearly as good its a 75 cal rifle with an explosive payload I think AOE damage being buffed on the bolter would help sorta if you land a crit or something the explosion of the enemies body turns them into shrapnel that will effect people around them other then they stagger when half of em should be dead from all the bone shards

I do understand where people come from when they ask for "lore friendly" balance, if they don't directly put out the notion of "lore based balance above all" but I cannot agree with it. There would be half an essay to say about this but it boils down to; we play games for many reasons but the only one that is consistent across every game is that we will play a game if the gameplay is enjoyable and desireable and won't play a game if it's either not enjoyable or not desireable to play. This is a long way of saying: "Gameplay is the most important factor and therefor gameplay is the most important factor to consider when balancing." I'd love the boltgun to not be a precision and crit focused weapon and for it do deal with whatever is on my screen (in a non-OP way ofc) and anything more lore friendly which reduces how fun it'd be to use needs to be disregarded.

One of my favorite examples of lore informed design was in Eternal Crusade (RIP) As soon as I unlocked the Rokkit Launcha for my Orkz I equipped it so I could see what they did with a weapon that’s supposed to be a very short range missile launcher. It flew straight for a couple of feet… and then just spiraled off target and flew off into the sky. How well did it function in terms of balance? I’d say it’s low effectiveness was in perfect balance with the high degree of amusement it provided

10:34 The flamer doing it all. Sound like The Ignis from Warframe. Shipmistress Brahms is a Rogue Trader so she has access to non-imperial weapons. So it is no too far of a stretch for the players to get there hands non-standard weapons maybe even xenos weapons.

So there are a few video games that play similar to and can be considered a tabletop adaptation for Warhammer 40k. Sanctus Reach and Battlesector both have a lot of tabletop elements including the point system and army building.

tbh I don't think that the table top games are lore accurate, at least gameplay wise, given that Nork can kill Angron, the DAEMON PRIMARCH, in one turn with all his attacks and a headbutt if they all land and wound. As funny as it would be for the Ogryn in Darktide to grab a Daemonhost and kill it in one shot with the equivalent of a headbutt (so the bull charge?), that's probably not healthy for the game.

If we are talking about lore, our ogryns are working for the inquisition, if the inquisitor wants to, the ogryn can be equipped with anything, even a heavy bolter. Yes, in the guard they wont going to get a heavy bolter, but the inquisition do what they want.

I wouldn't mind having a heavy bolter for ogryn. We already have shit ton of power swords laying in piles, because they're the most common weapon for convict to wield and every member of adeptus mechanicus have seen the STC of power sword from the dark age of technology..

ngl if Darktide was balanced by the lore it would be impossible for anyone to beat a single level 1 mission and the planet would have been detonated already

The other thing to remember about bolt weapons is that the ones used by the imperial guard are significantly weaker than the ones used by the sisters of battle who are humans in power armor, and the ones used by the sisters are significantly weaker than the ones being used by the space marines. I also agree that for this format of game good against and bad against should not mean hard counter/ed.

Lore should inform the general direction and theme of the weapon. Balance though, should trump Lore. It's much more important to keep the game balanced.

As for heavy bolters, I've always just assumed that they are used as mounted gun emplacements by baseline humans, because only a space marine could realistically lug one around in a combat situation and still be effective on the battlefield, especially with all the ammunition required - something an ogryn would be woefully inept at.

Iirc, there was a port of the TT minifig on pc. Though, it would probably require dosbox to run. So, yeah.

I hope Fatshark is watching because you’re bringing up some really good points here!

Only War mentioned. Absolutely a dub. Only War is so great, I've got the PDFs and I love reading through it and making character.

40k as a whole has always been lore flexible with the common phrase everything is canon not everything is true

I don't think its just the lore that causes balance problems. Was bolter not considered strong in the hand of zealot cause of Chastize the Wicked ? That one ability made some bad weapons somewhat viable. The last 2 major patches killed some interesting playstyles that was in the game for over a year. Even if it was not intended its a bit late to remove them this late into the game. I'm not interested in playing the game anymore to make a perfect roll for a specific weapon only for it to become useless when the next big patch drops.

Finally someone understands that GW is the end all, be all for what goes in this game. The number of times reddit people told me I didn't know what I was talking about lol As for other times GW has quashed weapons, I swear Hedge confirmed that GW wouldn't let Warrior Priest have a single flail, but shield and flail was fine

I enjoy your long form discussions, keep up the good work!

Even though this video isn't a direct response I still highly appreciate this kind of civil and respectful discussion between high quality content creators, be it through their own separate videos or in collaborative debate videos 🙂

Darktide is in one of the better positions for deviations from lore as far as who can use what and what the gear or individuals might be capable of. Even though rejects, the player has proven their loyalty and value to work under an inquisitor in any capacity. Being in the highest bracket of authority, rules and regulations only really apply to them as far as another inquisitor scrutinizes. So the conscripts and their gear can have a nigh endless degrees of augmentation or modification to hand wave away a lot of possible discrepancies as still fitting in the lore.