Teach Yourself to Land the Hip in DCS | One Mistake Stops Many
Vložit
- čas přidán 29. 02. 2024
- Join our discord for more help from other heli and Hip pilots!
/ discord
I'm going to show you a couple of exercises you can do that'll help train you and get good at those landings with the Mi-8 Hip in DCS. These exercises are very simple but will give you the framework to get repetitions in so you can start to build that muscle memory of how the cyclic, pedals, and collective all need to interact with each other during the landing phase of flight in the Mi-8 Hip. I'll show you a few hot landings and what to do if VRS starts to creep in when you're at very low altitude. I hope you enjoy this flight along with me while we work to get you landing your Hip. - Hry
This was a great practical tutorial on how to land! Awesome work Ryu.
Wanted to clarify some aerodynamics about what you said once you slowed: "The rotor system has to work harder to get the same sort of output."
When you are slowing, you are trading the energy of airspeed for altitude, and your rotor system is more efficient above effective translational lift (ETL) airspeed due to lower induced flow (recirculating vortexes/dirty air). Once you slow to a hover, you lose the efficiency of ETL and you have no more airspeed to trade, thus, you need a higher angle of attack(AOA) in your rotor blades so you pull more collective. Higher angle of attacks use more of your engines and thus you get higher EGT and fuel flow and the torque gauge goes up.
Your rotor system is maintaining the same speed throughout (100% RPM R), but with a higher angle of attack in the blades, you need more from the engines to keep the rotor turning at the correct speed (100% RPM R).
The key is you are maintaining the same amount of LIFT throughout while various forces act on the helicopter by manipulating the AOA of the blades.
Again, very well done video. Good to see you back in DCS!
Thanks for the clarification and the really detailed response. I definitely misspoke there while I was flying along and I'm glad you caught it to give the correct explanation.
I hope any new Hip pilots take what you said to heart, you're manipulating the AOA of the blades to find that sweet spot of maintaining the same amount of lift as the forces acting on the helicopter change dynamically.
Thanks for the response man!
Never been any good with helos in DCS or any other game. Picked up the Mi-8 in the free trial programme out of curiosity. Start up, easy. Takeoff was a little wobbly but better each attempt. Flight, not bad. But each landing I lost power, flipped and lost my tail. Then I found this video, and succesfully completed a route between 2 airfield with 2 consecutive landings, no stalling, no crashing and the tail was still attached. Great stuff, thank you!
Oh man that makes me really happy to hear that! If you ever have any questions on it let me know, I’m always happy to help. We also have a lot of folks in the discord too that can help if you’re not there already (about 260-270) DCS helicopter pilots of varying skill levels. It’s all a place to learn and fly together randomly.
As someone who basically tips over every single time I land, this is relevant to my interests.
Oh man I hope this helps out!
@@ryu1940 It did. I figured out that my problem was I would come in on pretty bad landing, make contact with the ground and then immediately dump the collective to zero to try to remain grounded. If you do that, it seems like the cyclic loses its ability to stabilize the helicopter, so I'd inevitably roll left, scrape the rotor and generally have a bad day.
Now when I touch wheels, I focus on keeping the helicopter stable for a second or two while easing off the collective, I almost always cancel out the lateral ugliness I landed with and live to take off again.
A big reason for the roll is the high mounted tail rotor. The tail rotor produces a right thrust force, pushing the top of the rotor over to the left therefore roll left.
Thanks for your content, really good quality. My primary aircraft is the F16 and the secondary is this beauty.... The Mi8 flight model feels really good and with your tutorials I've learned a lot
That’s awesome I’m glad you’re getting to learn more in this beauty. I agree this flight model feels really nice. It’s my favorite for sure!
Thank you Ryu.
No problem I hope it helped!
nice video. great catch about exiting VRS by pulling full collective, not sure if it works irl, lol.
not criticism, just a couple of ideas:
- the reason you start not needing right cyclic as you speed up is because of the tail vertical fin that becomes aerodynamically efficient as you speed up, allowing you to lower the right pedal input; you can see this as the slip indicator ball is slowly moving to the left as you speed up, if you don't correct your pedal input
- there is a subtle effect which is true to real life, as you start adding collective when slowing down, this will minutely increase your pitch as well, so you will start slowing down faster, needing more collective, and so on. usually, if you want to make the spot you picked, you will have to slightly add fwd cyclic when raising collective.
- if you go full down on the collective and pitch aft for braking, you will see the main rotor rpm overshoot 100% (this is to be avoided at all cost irl, but not so important in virtual flight), what this does is that it instantly drops you engines to like 70%; this is important because of the delay in the engines spooling up from idle, that is what caused your rotor rpm droop and the subsequent vrs (nice save btw); this should in theory be avoided by not allowing the engines to go to idle (ie maintain like 1deg AoA on the blades), or think a few seconds ahead about needing the engines shortly, when you start adding power; this high rotor rpm becomes more pronounced with the increase of the weight of the helicopter, so if heavily loaded you'll see it more often, compounded with needing more power when transitioning out of ETL, it can and will catch you off guard. If you want to experience this better, you can try doing some autorotations in the Hip, that'll make you a master in managing main rotor rpm, lol
- if you find that your approach energy is too high and think you can still make the landing spot without a go around, you can throw the helicopter into a slideslip with heavy pedal input, this increases drag dramatically, but you need to be careful to adjust your collective inputs according to your new orientation; I prefer left pedal, this adds the benefit of being able to look out between the instrument consoles when flying from the left seat. this is really important when landing on rooftops for example, where you don't have the luxury of overshooting the landing spot, since visibility from the Hip is really poor before touching down, your landing spot effectively disappears seconds before touchdown;
- one important aspect you didn't touch on is wind speed and direction; the HIP, having this huge side surface of the airframe is very susceptible to side wind loading, so you have to be careful about landing with side- or aft-wind; it is generally good practice to find wind direction and land into wind whenever possible. you do not want to land with strong tail wind at any time. in DCS, as in real life, the best indicator is smoking chimneys, absent any windsocks. careful about the ATC wind checks, they trip you up, dunno if DCS fixed it, but they usually report the direction wind is coming from, which is totally opposite from how it works in real life, where ATC will tell you where you need to point your nose to be into wind, makes no sense to have the pilot to 180deg additions in his/her head while busy landing;
- another aspect is the slope of the ground, if you can't find the flat terrain needed, it is generally accepted to land the Mi8 facing uphill with a 7deg slope limit; never land facing downhill, your tail rotor will hate you for it;
- the 'autopilot' for the roll/pitch axis in the Hip is not exactly that, it's just a dampener for inputs, you can't make it hold a certain attitude, unless you trim out the differences from stick center position; I think you could make an entire video just about how to use the trim function in DCS, this is a very misunderstood and confusing feature; the yaw autopilot is also weirdly implemented in DCS, as in only activates when pedals are close to center position, which is almost never; it's very useful when you can coax it to work as intended, but that is very rarely the case; this is because the pedals in the real aircraft have microswitches, so the yaw channel is deactivated when feet on pedals, this can't be implemented correctly in DCS.
Again, the above is not meant as criticism, it's great you took the time to make a video tutorial, landing the Hip is a very complex endeavor, it can catch out even the most experienced pilots in adverse conditions.
What pedals are you using? Are you using a collective, or just a thrust controller?
All great stuff and very informative. I didn’t want to bombard the new fliers with all the aerodynamic information all at once but it’s great you explain all that stuff here so they have a great source to read for additional explanation on why things are going on a certain way during certain phases. Thank you for typing up this detailed response to help others! That’s awesome stuff !
I use the pilot-commander's heading reference to show the into-wind direction, and take off and land from this seat using it as a reference. I use the pilot-navigator's heading reference for the desird en-route track.
Great stuff here Ryu!! In my Unit's rotary wing we have attack (ka-50, Mi-24, AH-64) and transport/csar (UH-1H, UH-60L, MH-60R, Mi-8 Hip)squads, I mainly fly the Ka-50, but have been dabbling in the Hip lately. Great stuff, keep it up!!!
Thank you! Do you guys ever fly on ECW?
@@ryu1940 We use our unit servers for most of our missions, but sometimes on training nights (Thursdays) we'll hit a server as a group (usually 4YA or something like that, don't think we've ever done ECW yet)
@Adlertag-117 oh man you guys should try it out sometime. They have all the helicopters except the KA-50. With a group of folks you could coordinated troop drops or strikes against airfields etc. a lot of fun possibilities.
@@ryu1940 We may have to do that. Sounds like it could be a fun time!!
As usual, great vid! Champion of Hip usage in DCS. Wish there were more Heli friendly servers in DCS. ECW usually full and Rotorheads high ping.
Thank you! Yeah it’s a bummer when ECW is full which tends to be all the time during primetime lol Have you tried that Contention server? I think you can do some ctld helicopter stuff over there.
Check out "The Coop" servers, they're pretty decent for helo stuff.
Good tips! thank you and keep up the great work.
Thank you for watching! I hope it helps others.
The hip is pretty easy with a bit of practice. Slow approaches until you are used to how it handles will allow you to anticipate it's tendencies, and watch the VVI like a hawk. Typically stay below 4 m/s descent to avoid VRS.
Oh yeah I think it is really easy to fly it just has a few initial quirks new guys have to pick up on and then after that it is generally smooth sailing. Generally I don't really watch my vertical speed indicator unless visually something is really complicated or confusing like weather / no ground reference. Even doing those exercises along the runway you can tell I was eye balling it with a sight picture because I'm not exactly flying 0 fpm on the vertical speed indicator.
I bet you've probably flown it so much too that it is just second nature to see what the descent speed feels like looking at how the ground is coming up at the cockpit.
Personally I think watching the VVI too much is what causes lots of crashes, why ? Because it has quite a delay like 3-5 seconds and that can make you approach the VRS (the main newbie crash cause imo) threshold without even knowing at times, I personally look at the ground which also isn't perfect since the perspective is skewed with a monitor but at least I can manage my alt well, othher ways is too look at the doppler system VVI but it's really quite tiny and hard to see for me or just the radar altimeter if the terrain is flat.
I must say Gazelle is much easier to fly though, I don't have other helis so can't say much more.
@@Tacticaviator7I don't literally mean stare at it the whole time. But it is a main part of my scan.
Thank you!
No problem I hope some of the tips were helpful to you!
I see the same behaviour with the Mi-24 when taking off, as in it wants to tip over to its left. I have the Thrustmaster Warthog on a "goose-neck" extension on the floor as my cyclic to be as realistic as possible when flying helis in DCS, MSFS and X-Plane but this behaviour still catches me out, especially when flying in VR having no reference to the physical position of my cyclic. It would be so much better if such sticks had some form of feedback as when flying in VR I can trim my cyclic to such ludicrous positions to be totally unrealistic.
ah yeah that has got to be difficult with the mis match of the cyclic positions damn :/
What kills most people in the HIP is the badly modelled VRS.. what you have talked about in this video is great but it can be easilly addressed by some right cyclic and rudder trim when you get below ETL speeds
Yeah I understand that. This video is meant for people who haven’t discovered that. I work with a lot new DCS helicopter pilots and they often don’t understand translating tendency just because they haven’t flown in any other game or sim that modeled it. This video is tailored to them and so far from the feedback I’ve got, it’s been helpful.
Can you teach us how to land the Hind? I always fail on this especially on the FARPS in ECW. Love your videos!
Great suggestion! I think eventually I will rotate back into the Hind and when I do that I can make a video on landing it. I remember when I used to fly it a lot there were a couple of quirks to be mindful of but it wasn't too crazy. The thing I remember the most was the proclivity it had to weathervane so it was really important you aligned with the wind, if you didnt that is okay you just need to be prepared to counter the wind blowing on it.
Don't be that guy that lands on the FARPs in ECW ;). Remember they are spawn points. If you land on one of the green squares, there is a chance someone will spawn in that spot and you both explode ;) . Just land next to the FARP.
When it comes to landing the Hind is not much different from the HIP but she is more critical in almost every way. The Hind cannot recover from VRS as easily and she has a much narrower landing gear, making tipping to the side even more prone, especially if you are doing a slight rolling landing and you are not aligned.
Just practice the same things as Ryu is suggesting here for the HIP. Start with the slowing down above the runway, then make rolling landings on the runway, then try to get into a hover just before touchdown.
Many people screw their landing by being impatient. If the hover doesn't feel 100% good, just go up 1m and try again. Don't try to set her down while sliding sideways or going too fast thinking 'it will be fine'.. it often won't be ;)
@@MorgothNL Some of the farps have really bad/stupid locations though, with really bad awkward angles on the ground that almost require you to land on the farp pads.
@@MorgothNL appreciate the input. I've been practicing more and more, and getting better. Also, thanks for the note regarding landing pads in ECW. Makes sense.
VSI is your best friend
What are your curvatures on your axis when you fly helicopters? I usually keep mine at about 20/25% and can generally fly well, but landing in the mi-8 and the mi-24p is pretty rough. Have you flown the Hind enough to tell if there's too big of a difference between them? (Except that the hind is heavier than the hip, ofc).
I don’t fly with any curves for helicopters. It would be too confusing for me. I used to fly fixed wing and when I did that I had curves in for some help with air to air refueling but for helicopters it’s just too difficult.
I used to fly the Hind a lot after I started on the server with the Huey. I think the Hind is more difficult to land than the Hip. The Hind from what I remember has a weathervane effect that’s a lot stronger than the hip due to its design (skinny straight on and pretty large broadside profile). If you do not land into the wind you will fight it a lot and it’s not a big deal just something to be aware of and account for.
If you can land the Hind you can land the Hip with little issue.
The hind flys like a big fast muscle car, think something like a mustang or charger. The Hip flies like a Toyota pickup. If you can fly the hind decently, you can pretty easily transition to the hip. If you fly the hip, you just need a bit more finesse to fly the hind.
As for curvatures, it really depends on what feels right based on your stick, and where you want your sensitivity. I used to fly with heavy 20-25% curvatures on my warthog, however since I've moved to Winwing it doesn't have the stupid center "notch" that the warthog has -- so I've reduced it. On the hind I run about 10%, where the hip I run 7% -- though I also occasionally run an extension, and with the extension, no curve.
Linear response is much better! I use a "double-linear" setup where there's fine linear response for the first 80% of stick movement (same as if you set the saturation to 60% or so), but after 80% it kicks up sharply to get 100% control input at 100% stick deflection. A stick extension and simple linear would be better.