DCS Hip pilot reviews Cera Sim's Mi-17MTV5 - How's it stack up?
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- čas přidán 26. 02. 2024
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It is no doubt I am a fan of the DCS MI-8 Hip. I have flown it hundreds of hours online and today we're going to see how the MI-17 made by Cera Sim compares for Microsoft Flight Simulator. This will be a quick review of how it looks graphically in the sim, how it sounds, how it starts up, how it handles on the ground, and how it flies. I hope you enjoy and let me know if you've already own this. If you do own it, how do you like it? I saw other reviews of this product and I many of them didn't appear to point out some of the glaring issues. Either way, if you're looking for a Hip in MSFS this is probably your best bet. - Hry
Thank for the review it make me appreciate even more the one in DCS 😊
No problem I am glad to share. I love the DCS Hip! It feels great throwing that helicopter around.
sorry, but i had to laugh out loud when you showed how the FM behaves. how could anyone think this is worth releasing? seems like i am spoiled by DCS because thats my first and only heli flight sim, but this model doesnt qualify as being called a sim. the visuals are better than the DCS one, but considering the age of it, this aint revolutionary. thats my only pro argument so far other than it being a Mi-17 and making use of the MSFS eco system. and then there is the pricetag, just saying that you can get the Mi-8 for less in a sale, which is the only time you should buy older modules anyways. you know i always hear people complaining that DCS is a cockpit sim, but then you look at the competition and immediately think otherwise. not a MSFS guy and not judging the whole sim, just hoping other models deliver better quality than this.
Oh yeah when the Mi-8 is on sale it’s around 20-25 USD. Well worth the price tag on sale it. It’s an absolute steal at that price.
What a disappointment again.
I have bought couple of helicopters and all has similar faults.
Even one that has external flight model (Flyinside B206) and it too was disappointment after flying so much in dcs. The only thing it can offer that others dont is vortex ring state.
Situation with planes is so much better than with helicopters.
Currently I am waiting with helicopters until we get msfs 2024 and then see if it gives better helicopter flight model.
@@kurotenusagiYeah after flying the DCS huey i cant fly any choppers in MSFS anymore
Man alive. I had a feeling the FM for helicopters at least wasn't close in MSFS compared to DCS. Thanks for confirming what my eyes were telling me.
Yeah hopefully they will get there one day but it’s no where near DCS at the moment. I think the better FM for an msfs helicopter is the H125 but it seems to have bizarre torque spikes and other engine related oddities.
Don't forget flyinside 47 and 206 with our own FM for 2020, very very realistic 🫡
If it's not nowhere near fixed wing aircraft, don't expect rotary aircraft to be. MSFS FM is not even close to Basic FM of FC3 aircraft.
@andrewchr That's demonstrably not true.
@@CpnGooseCare to demonstrate it then?
The Mi-8 that has the intake device (air intakes) in front almost at the exit of the technical crew at the top is the Mi-8T or the Mi-8PS that go with the TV2 engine, the Mi-8 MTV in All its variants have TV3 that end far behind the upper exit of the technical personnel even when they have the PZU (anti-dust system).
The Mi-8 MTV5 can be equipped with the VK-2500 engine variant but it has the same dimensions, just a little more overhault time and a little more shaft power.
Awesome technical information thank you!
Thanks for the review man! I think i will pass this module, really hope ED does revisit the Hip and redo the texture and maybe do Mi-17 as an update like how they did for Blackshark.
Thanks for watching man and yeah I totally hope for the same! I would love for an artwork update to the Mi-8 and maybe if they could swing it and make a new Mi-17MTV5 it would be super awesome
Cool breakdown, would be nice to see a comparison to some other modules too! (Huey, gazelle, ect.)
Thank you! I do plan on doing something similar when a Huey comes out. There is a payware one in the works I think by blackbird simulations for msfs.
there's a Gazelle for X-Plane...
Hey! great video so far, you mentioned all the systems being on still with the gens failinng, but i believe the APU might've been left on. i'll gladly stick to my DCS hip XD
Thank you! Oh yeah it’s still on but it behaves the same if it’s off I double checked that after the video when I noticed lol so far the only thing I’ve noticed that are affected by the gen fail are the landing lights (possibly other lights like nav and beacon but haven’t checked those).
@@ryu1940 haha that’s pretty funny, thanks for the reply mate 🫡
@@223frankthetank no problem thanks for watching !
Thank you for sharing. This gives me hope for MSFS but I honestly wouldn't pay $5 for that thing.
Thank you! The ground roll for me kills a lot of fun cus it’s so crazy.
Super interesting comparison.Would it be possible to do a hind video? I’m not sure if the track files have been fixed, but if they have I would love to see it.
I think single player tracks work decently for flying around but I don’t know if there are any Hinds in MSFS aside from an A model that is of really poor quality so I wouldn’t want to purchase it. If it goes on sale maybe I’ll consider it but I already know it’s going to be garbage lol
I'd love for an Mi-17 Mod/Module for DCS. I love the original Mi-8 but my original love for helicopters came from flying in Squad on mouse & keyboard, favourite to this day has been the Mi-8(Mi-8 MTV-5-1 but it's not specified in game) and a modern Mi-8 would be fun IMO.
A newer one would be awesome in DCS for sure! I’d absolutely buy that!
I know what you mean but technically the Mi-8 in DCS is an Mi-17, the Mi-17 is called the Mi-8M in Russian service.
@@bibendum452 The Mi-8 is a much older variant.
@@Th3Bishop3 The Mil Mi-17 (NATO reporting name: Hip) is a Soviet-designed Russian military helicopter family introduced in 1975 (Mi-8M), continuing in production as of 2021 at two factories, in Kazan and Ulan-Ude. It is known as the Mi-8M series in Russian service.
@@bibendum452 Yeah, so exactly what I just said.
It takes a little collective in the UH-60 for ground taxi and rearward taxi is prohibited in a Hawk.
Thanks for the info! I thought I heard that. It’s a shame this thing behaves so oddly on the ground.
@@ryu1940 I've written off MSFS helicopters for awhile. I'm pretty sure they'll figure it out eventually, but for now, DCS is the place to fly helos.
@rigger41 I totally agree. I think it’ll get there later (hopefully in msfs24) but yeah, DCS is the place to be for helicopters.
Regarding your comment on ridgelift and rotor - I'm quite certain that it IS modeled in DCS after having flown hundreds of missions in the mountains. It's very helpful when trying to summit a peak to hug one of the cliffs that is windward!
That sort of wind behavior is not modeled in DCS. The only differences in wind you get are based on altitude and are blanket across the map. You may be experiencing if a mission has turned on the turbulence feature but it generically adds impulses on the aircraft which would happen anywhere regardless of the terrain.
Another quirk also is when you hover along a slope and try to just touch your nose wheel to it you can get bizarre handling characteristics because I believe DCS is doing something with your thrust vector and pointing it through the point of intersection with the ground instead of it asymmetrically going down along a slope.
Hey, i believe the update of this week or was it last week changed something with increased up and downdrafts modeling if i am not mistaken. Not at the scale of MFS yet though. @@ryu1940
@@ryu1940 I'll have to check it again. I'll record it and show you if I find anything.
@@ScreamingElectron sounds good. I used to do a lot of mountain flying in the Hip in DCS doing troop drops. I think what also happens is that ground effect is applied perpendicular to the slope so it creates weird handling which may be mistaken for some sort of lift from the slope.
Another thing msfs has and isn’t in DCS is the thermals. You can actually get lift from thermals depending on the time of day and whether or not the sun is radiating on certain ground types. It’s pretty neat stuff.
oh snap hip gang is back!
I tried flying the Huey the other day online and it legitimately made me feel ill lol. I think I got motion sickness because I was so used to the Hip visuals and how the sight picture looks when I do certain maneuvers. In the Huey everything was different so my brain must of been confused. Lol
@@ryu1940 nah that's just your heart rejecting any non hip based vehicles
@lucasZr113 hahaha
Thank you for the review. Is vrs and retreating blade stall modelled in this helicopter?
They don’t appear to be. I haven’t had any VRS coming in pretty quickly especially at higher altitudes. I did some dives to build up speed but never got up to a speed where the retreating blade stall would kick in. I’ll have to double check today but from how everything was behaving I doubt it’s modeled.
its being a while seing you fly the Hind in Enigma's :) Do yo utake the R-60's now as an option of self defence.... got a few fighter kils with those lately !
Oh yeah I haven’t flown the Hind since it had the R60s added and the kord gunner added long ago. Right now I’ve been doing a couple Huey runs. It was the first helicopter I flew on ECW so I’ve been going back to my roots so to speak lol.
I really enjoy the Hip in DCS as well. What is there to do in MSFS with helos? I am not familiar with the game at all
Mostly just flying around real world locations with better weather modeling. If you have a different addon you can use it to deliver passengers or cargo for economic gain which is what I do with it.
Addon like Neofly works well for that. @@ryu1940
ah yeah I've used that one before. Right now I'm on an Air Hauler 2 kick.
Nice Review.. but I suppose autorotations are probably quite poor argain, right?
Thank you! I think so. I haven’t tried it but given what I saw in other areas I believe it would not be that great.
You have to activate the 3 greens autopilot buttons and set all to 9 on the knobs. then you can fly it, but its not a simple heli.
I should be able to turn on the pitch roll channel for the autopilot like I was doing in this video and it should dampen some of my pitch roll inputs. Turning it on doesn't turn on the autopilot in a regular sense but dampens some of my inputs which would reduce a twitchy feeling on the controls.
Thanks for the video. Avid Hip flyer in DCS too, and over 2k hours in MFS as well and this thing was a massive let down, as honestly most helos in MFS are. And specially in a game with not much do do without any addons, the FM is really what should be the most important thing, specially when something isn't a freeware product.
Many, if not by far most aircraft in MFS do suffer from that instant, light feel sadly, and i hope FS24 changes that. As for helo's. I started flying those in ernest in MFS (not counting Janes Longbow 2 :P ). But once i started flying them in DCS, it took not long until i simply could not go back to MFS to fly helos.
Not saying DCS does them perfect, but the FM just feels so much better, plus having actualy stuff to do together with other people but that is not the helo's fault.
MFS 3rd party sadly is an absulute dumpster fire where quality and pricing is all over the place, not helped by MFS's horrible koding. I helped some devs test fly their planes and i feel for those guys trying to make well flying flight models. Also why some of the best flight models use external flightmodels. MFS is a pita.
If anyone wants to fly the Hip, just get DCS, it is free, and get the Mi-8 on sale, which happens all the time.
I totally agree! The Hip especially when it’s on sale in DCS is actually cheaper in price than this and it is leaps and bounds ahead in terms of the flight model. Honestly it could use a graphics update which I believe is coming and it would even surpass this in msfs.
I do hope just like you that fs24 addresses that twitchy instant reaction to control inputs. There are great aircraft in msfs that have that weighty feeling to them but it’s like you say they are done with external flight models.
Thanks for watching !
MSFS 3rd party a dumpster fire? At least we don't need to wait 10 years for everything
Personally i'll take quality that takes time than this kind of junk as well as CS or McScenery trash.@@juk-hw5lv
Would you please do the other helis for MSFS ?
I have a few I could review. I've got the H125, MD500, and Bell 222. Was there a particular helicopter you were looking for?
@@ryu1940 I can attest that the H145 by HPG is actually pretty damn good in terms of flight model and system depth. I've also heard that the FlyInside Bell 47 is supposed to be really good. Both of these don't actually use the in-built helicopter flight model. Maybe you can give one of these two a try.
The moment you first moved that Cyclic around I had to laugh so hard wtf is that FM 😂
Lol yeah that is something so crazy. I’ve never seen anything do that before lol
Pardon my misknowledge , but I've always wondered why soviet/russian aircraft cockpits were painted green-ish blue , any idea why ?
Great question! I’ve heard a couple reasons. One was it is calming and the other was to relieve eye strain. The thought being looking out at the bright sky then looking into a gray or black colored instrument panel would have your eyes adjusting to the difference in brightness. The brighter color helped ease that transition.
@@ryu1940 That's some great explanation , pretty logical too ! Thank you for the quick and insightful answers !
@@SlashvsAdamSadler no problem thanks for the great question!
Also weird that the altimeter hand is showing 10s of feet
Good catch that is a little strange
They got it wrong with the blade flapping. It's hearable when you change collective, while in reality it happens in high speed turns and while decreasing altitude. Very poor FM, indeed. I've got the impression advanced flight model (aiflow calculations) based on RTD libraries in Arma 3 is more realistic than the one in MSFS. Thanks for the review.
I totally agree! I'm so used to hearing it in DCS that is is a big miss when I fly this thing coming in for hot approach in MSFS.
@@ryu1940 Yeah, and the helo dance on the tarmac with cyclic? Oh man.... Competitors had that thing right a decade ago. Alledgedly, it's like this because MSFS is lacking proper helicopter simulation, not that Cerasim did smth wrong, but I could be wrong on this. On the other hand, MSFS never pretended to be a study-sim, a type of game DCS surely is. I'd love to see the mid-range visuals of MSFS packed into DCS some day.
Is the parking brake on? Kind of looks like the horsy jumps are caused by a wrong grip coefficient on the tires causing it to try and front flip. Obliviously it shouldnt do that, it should just not move at all but add a limited physics engine on top of bad values and you get wierd stuff
No the parking brake was not on unfortunately. No brakes were applied.
@@ryu1940 oh man, thats worse news :D
@@tswdev lol yeah. If you watch me taxi out you can see me just moving the cycle and the helicopter wants to float around. I think the sim is possibly connecting the aircraft fuselage and cycle movements together as a single rigid body it seems like.
@@ryu1940 you mean the rotor and the fuselage?
Ideally it should be two (at least) rigidbodies where the fuselage is hanging by the rotor. But it doesnt look like its doing that either
@@tswdev yeah that is what I meant and yeah it doesn’t look like the sim is doing that
I flew in an Mi8 official EASA accredited sim, straight from DCS, it was exactly the same feeling. It was even easier than DCS to hover and all. Even the instructor guy was looking sideways at me.
This thing in MSFS is mostly garbage, no offence. The flight model is completely off, the masses are off, thrust is off, rotor inertia is waaay off, lift is off, control inputs seem wonky etc.
30 euros? naaah bro.
Nice video, cheers.
Oh man that would be so awesome to fly in a sim like that and get a feel for it. That’s really cool!
@@ryu1940the sim itself is really outdated, low graphics and all, but it was real Mi8 cockpit, with hydraulics and all. If you're in Europe, it's available to the public in Croatia, the price was like 30 euros for half an hour for the general public. They sold tours like a giant video game, lol. But they do train military pilots for airforces that still fly the type, mostly from South American countries.
Other than that, it's really cool, you can do autorotations to the deck of the Kuznetsov, lol.
@@franciscgedeon9237 oh man that is something I’ll definitely want to do if I make it out over that ways. I don’t mind the graphics. It’ll just be cool to sit in a full sim cockpit of a Hip!
I had the privilege of trying a few commercial Mi-8 simulators (including a really old analog one with a camera on rails, sliding along the physical model of an airfield, for the approach visualisation) as well as the actual Mi-8 helicopter and can confirm that DCS is pretty darn good, especially with proper controls. It is actually better than some commercial Mi-8 simulators out there. Too bad that MSFS versions (both Cera and Beekay) are equally hopeless and I would rather play that ancient analog thing for realism.
@vendigrothianv2997 wow that is really cool you had experience with multiple sims. That analog one sounds really neat. I’ve seen old footage of some where the camera flies over a whole area modeled out. Super cool thanks for sharing!
Sadly, I, too, was one of those that was pretty happy that Cerasim released the Mi-17 for MSFS and BOY was I disappointed. It flies poorly compared to the DCS Mi-8, the panel lights at night flicker horribly, the switches don't work like they are supposed to, you have to make modifications to the .cfg file to be to use the default helicopter trim system because theirs doesn't work. I left a review on the website that was never posted because it was a bad review. The only review on the Cerasim website is a good review and I suspect it is because they don't know how a helicopter should fly. I loved Cerasim helicopters in FSX/P3D but this one is a horribly done aircraft that needed more time in the shop.
Oh man yeah I remember seeing the one good review there. That is what I dislike about buying from devs. They can choose what they want to post which would be misleading to other consumers. Some people don’t like the msfs in game store but I love it cus you can’t hide from the ratings.
What is the location of this airport it looks stunning ?
Courchevel Altiport LFLJ in France
@ryu1940 thank you much appreciated
@Jamesneedscoffee no problem!
Looks like the same livery as Air Ornge in Ontario, Canada.
Oh wow I looked it up and yeah it looks similar. Good eye!
One caveat - When light you can actually fly with collective maxed out in DCS as well. Of course you will kill the engines shortly, which does not happen here - but the rotor behavior is not THAT different, DCS stalls down to ~80%, and Cerasim to ~60%.
Other than that, I completely agree Cerasim FM is horrible. Mod is in the works, we're making good progress
Oh man I would love to fly a modded version with some flight model tweaks. I had hopes for this one given the price tag but was let down.
I can send you latest test build to whatever you want ;)
@@ryu1940 drive.google.com/drive/mobile/folders/1cq37esLY19F8YNt-rdS8O2cKqIJaPPr5?usp=sharing
You should try x-plane 12 Helicopters, far far better than MSFS. The freeware Alouette 3 is a little gem.
MSFS is such a disappointing sim for me.
The scenery is great but the physics always disappoint. (nice showcase btw)
Thank you ! I like some planes the physics aren’t bad like a2a commanche. It’s all up to the devs.
msfs is pretty but the flight models can't match dcs. i liked the scenery but the flight models were so bad it wasn't really playable.
Yeah I think it gets a bad rep from the individual aircraft developers. There are some aircraft that are very high quality in terms of the flight modeling but it’s in a room crowded full of cash grab devs. In terms of fast jets nothing really compares to DCS. Msfs jets have bizarre behavior at high AoAs.
How do we know DCS's flight model isn't the one that is messed up? hehehehehe
😂
Pretty sure you would fall out of the sky in DCS at 70% main rotor RPM.
Oh yeah you would and if you yanked the collective that drop would happen quickly.
"this will be a quick review" end up being a 28 min video haha
Lol yeah I laughed at that when I first watched it after putting it together. I think it could have been ten minutes shorter if I didn’t do the start up but I wanted to show how it starts compared to what I do with the DCS hip start up.
@@ryu1940 makes sense. The hip takes a lot to start up!
@ankilo5519 it does I love bringing it to life in DCS. It’s like turning on a spaceship lol
@@ryu1940 imagine a full fedelity spacecraft game, that would be actually good haha
@ankilo5519 you know I think there actually was one for old nasa spacecraft where the modules were fully clickable. I can’t remember name of it.
I feel like arma reforger flight model is more realistic that this lol.
I still haven’t tried it since they added the helicopters in. I should give it a try lol
@@ryu1940 As of 8 jun 2024 they are good fun but nowhere near realistic.
@@csh5414 I’m still amazed they don’t have hotas support.
@@ryu1940 They do! It can now detect your Joystick. You can now select it one of the drop downs. I was playing it last week.
@@ryu1940 They have added Joystick support, I was playing it last weekend and noticed it in the options.
Dcs + msfs maps.....
That would be absolutely amazing !
If You want just play, go for msfs, if You want some "real" sim feel go for dcs...msfs is not even close to behave like real thing..there are no even one heli witch behave right.. msfs is more aracade that simulator..
Yeah the helicopter flight model leaves a lot to be desired.
Ok, now fly from Warsaw to London in real weather in DCS. Or get an addon that is not permanently in early access
Yuck! Well that's ONE way to make me appreciate DCS! LOL!
Lol
@@ryu1940 Please post this in the group! The guys need to see it! (And they'll get a kick out of me suddenly praising DCS, LOL!)
@@admiralqualityspretendingtofly you can post it if you’d like. I don’t want to post msfs stuff there.
@@ryu1940 Oh I do, it's officially on-topic as we're not uptight like so many other groups.
Will do though, just didn't want to scoop you on your own material.
Cera Mi-8 is honestly one of the worst flight models as far as far as MSFS rotorcraft go. The sad truth is, MSFS is still not ready, after 4 years, for big multi engine helicopters with AFCS. Its flight model works best with small single engine machines. The Alouette and Lama are both examples of very good flight modelling in MSFS. The Mi-17 is not. I'm honestly sad no one will ever make a study leve Mi-8/17 for MSFS where you could do real world flights all across the world with real weather because the DCS model is just soo good, even though it limits us to just few locations around the world and mission-type gameplay instead of free flight as in MSFS.
Yeah it is pretty sad it would have been a really fun addon if the flight model was uplifted a bit. I recognized the name from other flight sims and was honestly hoping for something better. Maybe they'll get there one day but we'll see.
helicopters in msfs and fighter jets are really shitty tbh
Yeah the fighter jets have strange high AoA behavior. I do have some good quality GA and airliners where the FM feels great though so at least there is that.
so its a terrible flight model and not worth buying if you actually wanna fly helicopters as realistically possible
Yeah I wouldn’t buy it for the flight model lol that’s for sure. Even the ground handling was absolutely terrible.
Promo-SM
What does that mean?