Why Rotary Engines Kinda Suck
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- čas přidán 28. 04. 2024
- The RX-7, the RX-8 and the 787B race car all have something in common - the rotary engine. The famous spinny ‘Dorito’ holds a special place in any petrolhead’s heart as a key part of JDM car culture.
So, why is it so popular when it’s so damn flawed? They’re terrible on fuel, even worse on oil, they can be expensive to fix AND their torque figures are pretty weak.
Let’s take a look at why rotary engines kinda suck and why they might actually be making a comeback.
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Japanese performance cars are hugely popular, with the used car market for ‘90s JDM icons absolutely booming at the moment. And that’s because, if you want a rotary - you have no choice but to go used - as no current new cars use them.
Anyway, the Supra, the Skyline, the Evo and the Impreza are just a few examples of the Rising Sun’s offering of attainable performance cars.
These were turbocharged, often motorsport-derived saloons and sports cars that offered a hell of a bang for your buck. Cars like the R34 GT-R and MK4 Supra gained a reputation for being giant killers with huge tuning potential.
However, they've all got something in common - they’ve all got old-fashioned piston engines. Want to stand out from the crowd? The RX-7 is the one for you.
Sure, it wasn’t the first rotary-powered Mazda, in fact there were a fair few before it. There was the Cosmo Sport, the RX-3, the RX500 as well as the world’s first and only rotary-engined pickup - the REPU (Rotary Engine Pick Up) among many others. The RX-7, however, was part of a golden era of Japanese performance cars that really made it desirable.
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#RotaryEngines #RX7 #Wankel - Auta a dopravní prostředky
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Rotary engines:
Displacement of a 4 cylinder
Power of a 6 cylinder
And fuel economy of a 8 cylinder
I spat out my drink reading this comment 🤣
And finally - oil economy of 10 piston engines
8 cyl is an unstatement
I drive the hell out of my Rx8 and achieve 16.5 mpg average while v8 chargers, Camaros and mustangs achieve 8-12mpg average. I doubt they drive theirs like I do mine. Friend has a 5.3 truck, we both have tunes he achieves 4mpg average. I have a sohn adapter and my tune increased my injection of two stroke by ten percent. I use roughly half a quart per tank. I premix with 10fl ounces. Some reality beyond the jokes. :)
@@sofakingdom3076 rx8 lolol you compare your RX8 to Camaro etc…..lol if you would have said RX7 maybe…
"10 years ago, Audi tested a Rotary engine"
Huh, I didn't know Audi did that in the early 2000s... Wait, 10 years ago was 2011. Damn.
Audi invented the Wankel engine... when it was called NSU
Alot of companies played around with the Wankel design over the years. Hell, GM almost produced a corvette with a wankel in it!
I thought about the 90s
@@farmerjunge He is referring to the 2010 Audi A1 E-Tron Concept car which had a Wankel range extender. There was considerable speculation that Audi was developing a new advanced Wankel engine design. Unfortunately the concept actually used a 1970s Sachs KM24 engine salvaged from a Hercules W2000 motorcycle.
Audi like the rest of the automobile industry lost interest in range extenders after improved batteries became available.
@@mikehunt9894 Curtiss-Wright, General Motors and Mercedes-Benz had the largest Wankel development programs in the world.
General Motors at on time was spending as much 10 million dollars per month on Wankel development...
Mazda was among the smaller of the 26 Wankel KKM licensee's with a limited budget and zero experience in engine development.
Prior to the Wankel Mazda only manufacturered engines from other companies under license.
I absolutely loved my RX-7 convertible. People probably thought I was crazy, because sometimes I just laughed out loud while driving it. It was that much fun.
Interesting video. Thank you.
My greatest automotive regret was selling my RX8.
Everything you say is true, but you left something out. They are absolutely delightfully fun to drive. The rotary engine finds itself at relatively high RPM. And when I say high I mean HIGH! 😱
For instance, entering a cloverleaf and accelerating through it.. downshift one or two gears to 7000 RPMs and accelerate. You can easily go to 10,000 RPM on an RX8 - something most cars would drop fragments of pistons on the road as the engine blew.
So it’s not a muscle car dragster, but it finds itself on curvy highways. I much prefer it to the Porsche I have now.
The weight distribution was just perfect. The major reason for it being discontinued, was emission regulations. Rotary engines by definition burn oil.
Your comment sounds completely fake
Rotary engine:
size of R4
torque of wet noodle
fuel economy of V12
oil economy of 10x V12
I’m hanging on to mine, it’s sitting on my drive but it will fly again, one of the most fun cars to drive, if this synthetic fuel takes off it may make a comeback
@@andybirks4107 You don't really have a choice... you can't even give away junk like that.
@@sandervanderkammen9230 funny how people are constantly knocking on trying to buy it lol you either love it or you hate it
I think the reliability problems could have been fixed, and where I live, rebuilding a rotary is far cheaper than rebuilding a piston engine, because there are so few parts. Granted, it's more prone to failure due to the issues we all know (sealing failures and such) but I think that overall, that could have been fixed. After all, most dedicated rotary owners have third-party solutions installed to fix those reliability issues.
Problem is fuel efficiency & emissions. A RX8 can eat like a supercar going presto even at normal city speeds. Like 15l per 100km. That's a lot in a world in which efficient, full combustion cars can go as low as 5l, and a Porsche 911 can do 7-10.
And there's emissions. They burn oil by design. Inherently, they pollute a lot more.
I've heard that running them on LPG will solve the oil burning problem, because LPG doesn't mix with the oil. I wonder if Mazda can make some sort of skyactive tweaks (high compression, leaner air-fuel mixutre) on the engine. Piston engine can have poor fuel economy too, one example Subaru WRX/STI worse fuel economy than BMW inline 6.
The engines designed where the apex seals are a piece that intentionally wears.
Where I live, it's cheaper to rebuild a rotary than to change a BMW bumper lol.
@@Rose_Butterfly98 especially if it's an M sport bumper. Like $1200 just for the bumper skin. Not including any of the pdc or lights
Basically a 2.5 stroke? lol just keep them lubed and you won’t burn those apex seals. I’m all about simplicity! So beautiful 🥲 no valves or timing chains or cams… just a weird circle thing and a rotating triangle 😂 I love rotaries!
Rotaries sound fantastic. 787b all the way.
Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. GOD loves you soo much unconditionally.🤩❤😍🤗😄
@@alunesh12345 amongus sus vent sus god is the imposter sus.
@@literallya442ndclonetroope5 As a catholic I find this extremely funny
@@ur_boyfriend8612 same here lmaoo
Also nice pfp lol
@@ur_boyfriend8612 Jesus got ejected, and still lived, he mega sus.
Always thought that the MX-5 (miata) should have had a Mazdaspeed version with a rotary in it from factory, even if it was the NA from the RX-8, in the smaller car it would be magic.
The reason why Mazda MX5 was a huge success is because it didn't have a Wankel engine.
The RX8, which shares the same SE platform was a $3 billion dollar failure.
@@sandervanderkammen9230 It's weird to put both the dollar sign and the word dollars. 3 billion dollars dollars?
@@totalmetaljacket789 Are you an English teacher???
@@sandervanderkammen9230 I'm apparently your tutor.
@@totalmetaljacket789 Not when it comes to Wankel engines son... why don't you go read some poetry or change a diaper.
The Mazda dealer I turned wrenches for had a grip of dead RX7's and 8's sitting abandoned behind the shop. We called it The Field of Broken Dreams.
I think that no matter how you slice it, Mazda has just always had weirdness going for it. I'll always love that unique style, and I'll always hope to have an SA-22 in the garage. Too cool.
Right now you're looking at a car that's slowly increasing in value, now is a good time to pick one up!
@@willg125 Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. GOD loves you soo much unconditionally.🤩❤😍🤗😄
Mazda has always had the lowest prices going for it... but now with decent quality cars coming from Korea and China, Mazda is really struggling to stay in business...
@@willg125 Scrap metal prices are slowly increasing... but I don't think buying old Mazdas for scrap metal is going to make you rich...
@@sandervanderkammen9230 someone's a mazda hater. Just tell us which car company you fanboy over and get it over with.
I've heard that for smaller light-duty engines, there have been some substantial improvements -- but this is in the 1/4 to 4hp range. I love mazdas, and am sticking a toe into the crossover market, so the MX30 is very appealing.
When I was a kid, a neighbor had an RX3 that rev'd over 10K and sounded amazing. Of course, it was up on blocks a lot waiting for parts a lot.
And I still remember Mazda's jingle from the 70's "Piston engine goes boing boing boing boing boing but a Mazda goes Hhhhmmmmmmmmmm"
Not true, the Second Law of Thermodynamics tells us that smaller engines are inherently less efficient.
Mazda abandoned all development of Wankel engines in May 2009.
The MX30 is in full production and is available in selected markets.
It will only be available in a 100% plug-in battery electric vehicle or a mild series hybrid powered by a 2.0 liter 4-Cylinder Skyactiv G engine.
@@sandervanderkammen9230 Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. GOD loves you soo much unconditionally.🤩❤😍🤗😄
@@sandervanderkammen9230 agree small engines when driving at low speed is sure efficient but push that small engine a little bit harder your fuel cons gonna be worse than v8s
@@reynaldiwidjaja277 Actually just the opposite.
Smaller engines are more efficient when pushed harder.
Keeping the engine under high load improves BSFC and thus improves overall fuel efficiency.
@@sandervanderkammen9230 are you telling me pushing an engine is gonna improve efficiency? What do you think is the main cause for inefficient combustion? Engine heat
I remember owning the 2004 RX8 high power, it was lots of fun, the sound was great. My main issue was the rear wheels slipping way too often though, I moved from bridgemoans to conti's and that mostly solved the issue. The oil top ups was annoying but the 18 MPG on average was pretty dire but I bought it for the smiles per gallon anyways :)
I remember the Mazda RX8 being recalled for premature engine failures and Mazda settled a class action lawsuit admitting that it lied about the RX8 horsepower specs.
The engine failure recall was largest of its kind with over 60,000 engines replaced in the first year alone
Mazda opened a new warranty engine remanufacturing center in Chesterfield Virginia to keep up with the demand for Renesis engines.
@@sandervanderkammen9230 Whats kinda sad is that the engine replacements were only in USA and Japan, here in the UK you were stuffed with a useless car :\
Mine was fine luckily but I was part of the members group and saw many horror stories.
@@sandervanderkammen9230 The only recall notices I get when searching are for a fuel pump O-ring, very early production lower control arms and/or ball joint casing and the Takata Air-Bags which effected multiple different car companies and models.
I've noticed that you hate the engines but that's no excuse to make shit up, you could just not watch Wankel/Rotary engine videos so you won't waste hours of time posting nasty comments.
@@bygonebebygones8503 Indeed, RX8 owners in other countries got screwed over by Mazda big time...
@@Cluuey You are clearly not familiar with the Mazda RX8 and its huge premature engine failure fiasco.
It's absolutely nothing personal, the facts here are irrefutable, the RX8 was the worst sedan Mazda ever made and without question the worst RX model made by Mazda.
Wankel engines are obsolete today because they are inherently inferior to reciprocating engines and cannot compete against them in any type of application.
4:08 The arrow at the lower left points to the primary inherent problem in the Wankel engine: this area of the stator housing (in red) is constantly exposed to the hot combustion gases, consequently lubricating oil that impinges on this surface is quickly burned off. As the apex seals sweep over the hot, dry surface, the steel-on-steel friction wears them down rapidly, this is the main reason the overhaul interval is short in Wankel engines. Also, the long, cornered combustion chamber leads to incomplete flame propagation and poor combustion efficiency. The shape of the combustion chamber gives it a larger surface area than a cylinder, which contributes to poor overall thermal efficiency. On the other hand, compared to the reciprocating engine the Wankel is small, light and cheap to manufacture, which may make them ideal in certain specialized applications.
The primary failure mode of all Wankel engines is compression loss due to apex seal damage.
Damage directly linked to high brisance and ablative damage related to poor combustion eg: detonation and pre-ignition.
Apex seals are inherently weak, flawed by design and prone to damage, The Wankel engine cannot support the high swirl or Quench type combustion chamber architecture.
Wankel engines have zero advantages over reciprocating engines and are obsolete technology because they are inferior to reciprocating engines in every application.
Any questions?
Dude there's always a solution to these minor problems. There just isn't one because everyone stock to pistons
@@sandervanderkammen9230 there's always a fix for minor issues like this. It doesn't even sound complicated. There only isn't one because everyone stuck to pistons. Rotaries sound amazing though.
@@davidt8087 Lol! Indeed you are very confused and naive...
The flaws in the Wankel engine are inherent in the fundamental design and cannot be fixed, all of the major engine manufacturers have reached the same conclusion.
This is why the Wankel is obsolete technology now.
@@sandervanderkammen9230 show me a resource. If wankel was for some reason the only engine design chosen by the world, you really think they wouldn't have fixed the oil issues or miles per gallon issues already? Engineers who are good at their job can overcome such challenges. Reminds me of carburetors vs direct injection. Without technology carburetors would have seemed like the only major affordable choice
"That's cheap RX8 isn't looking like a deal anymore" What? For a weekend car it's an absolute bargain. The car I'd compare it to is the S2000 and the RX8 has slightly better handling and is way easier to drift. Even with a very expensive rebuild of 5k$ you can get an RX8, a full rebuild with bridgeport making it go BRAP, 5 years worth of fuel and it will still cost you like 1/4 the price of the S2000.
And with that Bridgeport, it’ll last 1/4 as long as a s2000.
@@threadworm437 yup, rotarys are reliable just gotta keep up on maintenance. premixing helps too
@@s1ckksn0w if you build it poorly maybe. Rotaries can be quite reliable if you build them right.
@@BigMan7o0 bridgeports have worse engine life no matter how good you build them compared to other types of porting like extend porting. when bridgeporting your essentially cutting down the area that the corner seal passes over, cutting down the lifespan of the motor over time. the lifespan of a bridgeported motor has many other factors that decide how long it'll last like the size of the bridge, how hard you will drive it etc. it does however have its benefits like increased power thru mid range and top end drastically, at the cost of low end torque, making them a not really good option for street however this doesn't stop people from doing it. bridgeporting is great for race motors and such, but for daily use and practicality they are not that good. they increase fuel consumption, reduce driveability and smoothness etc. rotarys can be very reliable if you build them right, all depends on what modifications you make to them though.
pls do not get a bridgeport, semi pp pls
I've had my RX8 for 11 years. It has been a generally good car. Well, until a few weeks back when it blew a seal on a track day, with 76k on it. I would rebuild it but there are so many Friday, afternoon rebuilds. Even if it is rebuilt well, it's 20mpg (10 on track) and £600 UK tax. They are fun cars that, to be honest you are better off avoiding.
I feel like most owners of rx7/8s (who still own them) have all said the same. To be a rotary owner, you have to be a pretty dedicated fan. You can't just expect to treat it like any normal car. Unfortunately, there's a ton of delusional fans in the comments who may have never even owned the car.
You got 11 years of trackdays and thrashing on 1 build of a renesis, don't know how you can be unhappy with that. Any car driven on track is going to have a shorter life. In that same time frame I'm on my 3rd 3SGTE
@@scottd8991 Very true. The car had a pretty good run. I would say that I am happy with my rotary ownership period. Many cars would not have withstood the thrashing it had. I'm missing being able to drive it already.
It had a good life, when the time comes I'd be considering an engine swap rather than a rebuild .
@@Noojtxeeg Or pretty gullible and naive...
You most certainly don't need to be a specialist to rebuild a rotary engine. I built my own 13b monster bridge port in our shed on our farm with the help of just a book. This was mid 1970s, in those days, nothing could touch them bang for buck. My completed built in those days was 2000 folding. That includes lightened, balanced rotors and new housings and new everything else including the clutch. She could drop 225hp at the wheels after a few hours on a dyno. That car had a 4 barrel Holly and inlet manifold with a beautiful air cleaner with the velocity trumpet in it from Rotor motion on it, that was a very cool piece of kit. That may not sound like much of a big deal, but I'm from NZ, so it was at the time. My old rx2, what a fun car that was.
Seeing the rx7 from nfs carbon being referenced even for just a second made me happy asf, that version of it made me fall in love with the car and have been ever since I got that pink slip from the boss as a kid.
Ha, love the included outtakes Callum! Presenting is WAY harder than people think! 👍👍👍
Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. GOD loves you soo much unconditionally.🤩❤😍🤗😄
yes, all RX7´s and RX8´s are considered as mid-engined cars, due to the engine being placed behinde the front and infront of the rear axle. They are called front-mid-engined (like an SLS or a Corvette)
Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. GOD loves you soo much unconditionally.🤩❤😍🤗😄
To make something a plural, put an "s" after it.
NEVER add an apostrophe - they only EVER indicate missing letters, or possession!
@@Chris.Davies Cut him some slack he is not old enough to drive a car yet, does not have a clue what he is talking about.
@@sandervanderkammen9230 neither do you
@@200130769 I know more about Wankel engines than you ever will boy.
I was always fascinated by these because it's under developed and could still possibly be a game changer someone needs to make a double dorito with combustion happening between both chips \/ to possibly do away with alot of the apex seal issues
That statement reveals a shocking lack of knowledge about the development history of the Wankel engine...
The Wankel engine obsolete technology because it is inherently inferior to reciprocating engines and horribly unreliable.
There is no cure for the fatal flaws in the Wankel KKM57 design... that is why there are no longer any legitimate engineers or manufacturers working with the Wankel, it is now the sole domain of crackpots and con men.
@@Stevie-J The more apex seals... the less reliable the engine.
i think there’s a dude with a channel who talks about upgrading rotarys. bro has some wild claims about upgraded rotary motors, 700+hp, 50 mpg. it sounds fantastical but if you own one why not i guess
@@d0rkweb Are you referring to a Florida cocaine dealer named Rob Dahm??? All of his engines blow-up!
@@dereksmith7082 Travis Pastrana has only won Rallye events driving a Subaru.
He has also won several other motorsports victories driving a Toyota, Ford, Chevrolet, Dodge and Ferrari.
Mazda left racing and no longer has any factory motorsports program.
"Rotaries make awesome hp/L"
Only if you count the swept volume of one chamber of each rotor. Essentially, if you ignore 2/3 chambers, they're incredibly small displacement. The only reason why this "Geometric Displacement" started being used was to dodge displacement taxes in Europe and Japan (thanks to Max Bentele suggestion when visiting Germany's NSU, the company that licensed and built the first Wankels). Ironically, people bought into the Geometric Displacement that was sold to lawmakers, so now they think the rotary is some engine that makes god-tier HP/L, when that displacement figure is clearly a ruse at every possible metric. When you look at their "Thermodynamic Displacement" like engineers do (counting all 3 chambers for displacement), it's easy to see why they're so thirsty.
A 13b has two 654cc chambers firing every crank rotation. That's akin to a 2.6L four cylinder... Which is why "Equivalent Displacement" ratio is used in competition. Despite spinning at a high RPM, they're actually slow to fire all three chambers on each rotor. If Thermodynamic Displacement were used for rotary displacement in competition, they'd be absolutely trounced. But again, people have been fooled by the Geometric Displacement that tricked lawmakers, so they automatically spout off about how "a bigger engine is needed to compete against a 1.3L rotary".
Essentially, that RX8 example of "174 hp/L" only seems good when Geometric Displacement is used (ignoring 2/3 of the chambers. If Equivalent Displacement is used, it's only a paltry 87 hp/L. If the Thermodynamic Displacement is used, it's only 58 hp/L, which is absolutely dismal.
And before the comments about "that's not how it's supposed to be measured" rain in, you can talk to the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE, the organization responsible for regulations concerning power claims from car manufacturers) that include all 3 displacement measurements in SAE J1220 (approved June 1978); which included all three to satisfy everyone since a single procedure couldn't be agreed upon (manufacturers didn't want the displacement taxes, and racers didn't want the severe disadvantage)
You can continue to pick Geometric Displacement as your preference, but if you want to understand the rotary's pros and cons, the best way to do so is to consider all three chambers of each rotor. Only counting the swept volume of 1 chamber per rotor is like only counting the swept volume of a 4 stroke engine in 1 crank rotation (meaning a 5L V8 would only displace 2.5L)... Which would be completely absurd to virtually everyone.
That said, a rotary's biggest benefits is how much displacement it can fit into a tiny, lightweight package and its minimal amount of moving parts for that displacement.
My buddies old 88 RX-7 would eat corvettes on NOS. It was almost stock aside from a little turbo pushing 14ibs
hey alright
@@cbassthefirst1343 That's the riciest post I've read in years.
You didn't mention the internal gearing, a rotary takes three revolutions to complete a combustion cycle on all chambers where a conventional engine only takes two revolutions.
Once you realise that a 13B is a 3.9l 6 cylinder which revs to 6000 RPM, they make a lot more sense.
Thankyou , not many people understand this, and some do but are too salty .
And I also love the fact 2 stroke piston engines exist haha.
My household had 3 first gens and 2 second gens. Rotary cars are very special, but today I drive a 50k mile BRZ/FRS/GT86 as I really don't want to be on automotive forums 24/7 trying to diagnose and fix my sportscar on life support. No regrets, not even the 85 where I changed the gearbox oil and had to do synchros and bearings right after. No regrets, not even lightly drifting at over 100mph on lakeshore in Saskatoon in the 91. No Regrets on the 82 that I bought for $1200 in 95 and wrote off for $3k in 96. No Regrets for the 82 that I power shifted until the clutch disappeared. No regrets drifting the bridge loop at work every day in 100hp car. These cars were simple enough that a kid could learn how cars work and how to diagnose car problems. These cars changed my life... but today I choose an FRS. Its still lightweight, low CG, better suspension, killer in the corners - but its good on gas, doesn't break and will last twice as long... maybe more. Here's to the car and the engine that taught me how cars work and how to drive them. RX7/8.
Yeah but they still suck... what's your point?
The RX8 has WAAAAAY better suspension than the wannabe 86.
@@CaramelColored Have you driven them both? Wanna be? What does the 86 want to be? I find it a fun car, like my rx7s. RX8 was a bit a disappointment in the looks dept for me but performed fine. Not quite as drifty as I like TBH but it wasn't my car so I didn't really get into it. I don't really understand people who trash the gt86 as though the original was somehow a better daily. Do you mean the rx8 is objectively better only in the suspension department or that you would rather own an rx8 or that you do own an rx8 and somehow need to defend its honor against the waves of 86 owners who just can't see how good the rx8 is... Let me know. I'm genuinely curious what makes you blurt out insults to a car that I can only assume you have very little seat time with.
@@dachanist Yeah, I have driven the wannabe 86, multiple RX7s, multiple Rx8s including the one I daily, every iteration of supra (except the BMW one), every iteration of Skyline (except the crap V6 one) and every other iconic JDM car at least 3 times. The FRS is not a gt86 so it's a wannabe 86 and the original is 100% a better car all-around. The RX8 has, factually, better suspension, better accel, more torque, FAR better interior, better brakes, drifts better, better and easier to insure, lower road taxes, sounds heavenly in comparison to the bloated walrus grunts the FRS pukes out. No need to defend it against FRS owners because you lot are just like the Tesla idiots with your bloated self worth and skin deep superiority complex, frankly I don't care about your opinion but I have no problem slamming you back down to where you belong.
Better not let Rob Dahm read that title 👀
that and/or the vargas brothers lol
Rad potential
Yeah.. Rob Dahm might learn something and stop wasting his time....
@@jesusgurrola7062 vargas brothers? Are they the drug dealers that supply Rob Dahm with cocaine?
@@sandervanderkammen9230 funny part of your comment is the engines of rob dahms cars are the MOST reliable part of his cars 😂
I had an rx8. Babied the hell out of it. Apex seals went out at 70k miles.
Babying a rotary is bad for the Apex seals you want to warm them up completely make sure the entire engine is the same Temp and then run it out to Red line a few times
Just open the engine earlier and repair wont cost much.
@@djjaysky9071Old wives tales... nothing you can do will ever make a Wankel engine reliable.
The "Italian Tune-up" only applies to carburated engines, if your car is fuel injected? Revving it up will not fix your problem, only a new engine will.
@@szaka9395Just buy a better car with a reliable engine
My first car was a 1971 Mazda Capella RX2. Loved it!
My condolences...
787b and efini rx7 pretty much defined rotary engines. Honorable menations: Mazda Cosmos, RX3 etc :o
Yes, they were both failures.
@@sandervanderkammen9230 Believe in JESUS today, confess and repent of your sins. No one goes to heaven for doing good but by believing in JESUS who died for our sins. GOD loves you soo much unconditionally.🤩❤😍🤗😄
@@sandervanderkammen9230 the 787 b one multiple championships the only reason they had to pull it out of racing is because they couldn't make weight
@@sandervanderkammen9230 ah yes, because a car that won very many races and had to be banned as a result is a failure
@@alunesh12345 Felix Wankel and Hitler were both racist Nazis, evil minons of Satan, Jujiro Matsuda was an atheist and admitted to being a racist and admirer of Felix Wankel.
The Good news is Jesus still loves you and God will forgive your ignorance and evil wickedness.
1998 to 2002 rx7's would make around 300hp stock with the waste gate limiter removed as all auto manufacturers in japan had a agreement that none of the sports cars would make over 275 Hp
The FD got it’s Series 8 facelift in 1999 the gentleman’s agreement HP figure was 276HP/280PS
@@Aditya-sc6wu And nobody really took the agreement all that seriously, they just said they made 280ps.
@@DjDolHaus86 no one took the FD seriously... it was a major sales flop.
@@sandervanderkammen9230 The FD is highly sought after these days....
@@sandervanderkammen9230 how do u have so much free time? first the dokterbimmer account and now this one.
My first car was a 1984 Rx-7 and always wanted the third gen so bad but I was young and poor 🤷🏻♂️. I know it didn't have a rotary but had an S-2000 later which was also unique and fun. I have looked up these cars today and low mileage ones are insanely priced but they are very rare so I get it.
Mine was a 1980 rx7 I wreck it and bought a 1987 rx7 and still have it but that first gen hold a special place
The Rx8 might of had a rotary engine. But it was far different compared to the RX7s. The emissions regulations made Mazda redesign the 13b and tried to reduce the oil injection which caused premature failure. My FD never had a "need to top up oil every third fueling"... Drove 2000 km through Germany and the Netherlands. Barely any oil missing.
Mazda never made Rotary type engines, only Wankel engines.
Still a 13b series
The primary failure mode is not related to lubrication.
Apex seals are inherently fragile and unreliable.
The 13b suffered from compression loss failures both in the turbocharged engines and the high compression Renesis because apex seals cannot handle high combustion pressures and are quickly destroyed by detonation/pre-ignition
Back in the late 70s I had two Mazda RX3s, there was little that quick on the streets and I loved them. More recently I've had two Suzuki RE5s, not quick but a joy to ride.
11 seconds 0-60 mph is not quick...
When GM was testing the C4 corvette, they tried out several rotary motors, the "big one" was a twin turbo 4 lobe. turns out that it got so hot, it melted the housing (gm did it again with the ZL motors of today). we never got the "Rotovette" but one can still imagine.
i wouldn't trust a rotary built by GM. they still manage to pump out shit engines and they been making them for awhile, can you imagine a completely new to them engine that is already known for reliability issues? fuck that i'll put in a upgraded mazda version if i wanted that.
GM was smart. The rotary is inherently trash.
@@01Z06guy rotaries are good GM is trash
@@djjaysky9071 Rotary cars are extinct and RX cars are known for being horribly unreliable. On the other hand, the Corvette is one of the best performing and highest priased cars in the world. Yeah sorry, reality proves you wrong.
I just love the high revs and the quasi two-stroke sound
There's plenty of production Piston engines making over 190hp/L naturally aspirated and have only 3 moving parts...
reads title
you take that back right now
I read about diesel rotary engines years ago. I wonder if diesel would give a bit longer life to the seals as it is a bit more "oily" fuel. The concept of the rotary engine is amazing. The practicality just has never been there. I had mostly forgotten about them but a while ago I saw a few CZcams channels building and doing rebuilds. I am glad that they have a bit of life still.
All of the original Wankel engine licensee's have abandoned development of Diesel Cycle variants including the 'Diesel-Ring' consortium. The Wankel engine cannot support the static compression ratio needed to for reliable compression ignition.
Low sulfur Diesel fuel is a very poor lubricant and has a lubricity of only 600mu, about the same as gasoline.
The Wankel engine is an obsolete technology today, no longer in development or series production anywhere in the world... it is now the sole domain of crackpots and con men like Ernie Brink and Rob Dahm.
Sure the rotary is obsolete. But why hate people who enjoy obsolete things? We still got typewriter and Walkman and Ancient Latin and martial arts lovers going around. Yet those were superceded by computers and printers, smartphones, modern languages and firearms.
Let go of your hate brother. You'll feel better in general. Time spent on hate is wasted time, and time is precious.
@@ujiltromm7358 Why do you feel the need to kill the messenger?
What is it that you hope to achieve???
Its not going to bring the Wankel back... just accept the facts and move on with your life.
Bro just tune your oil injectors...
Thats why i use nothing but amsoil interceptor 2 stroke oil in my rotary and nothing else.
To be honest I am more of a Mad Max car guy rather than a Fast and the Furious car guy.
Really nice video!
I'd love to see an outboard motor rotary. Outboards thrive on high rpm, seems like an ideal situation to run a rotary especially if you go with an oil premix fuel like old 2 strokes.
Several Wankel outboard motors were developed and sold by;
NSU
Yanmar
MAC (Sachs)
OMC (Johnson-Evinrude)
Which were all dispointting failures and discontinued.
A one prototype by SuperTec GmbH. (Defunct)
Metered Oil Injection is superior to premixing for Wankel engines as it reduces some of the reliably problems, reduces smoke and improves power output.
@@sandervanderkammen9230 yes i only run amsoil interceptor 2 stroke oil in my rotary
@@jlo13800 What Rotary engine do you have?
So, the 1.3L rating of the 13B was based on the displacement of a single chamber of the rotor...
But as far as mass flow over RPM, the 13B is actually comparable to a 2.6L engine.
This is a pedantic little detail, but the 1.3L designation was a great boon for advertising, since they could claim 200hp+ from a "1.3L engine," but makes their fuel consumption/displacement sound abysmal. If you think of them in terms of actually being equivalent to a 2.6L 6-cylinder, their power and fuel consumption make a lot more sense.
They DO still have the advantage of small size and weight for displacement. That oil consumption, though...
Absolutely, engineers, government agencies and motorsports sanctioning bodies use the 2X formula conversion and rate the 13b as a 2.6 liter.
Unfortunately the Wankel engine has not real advantages in power to weight ratio performance or power density which is why they were a failure in motorcycles and aircraft...
Of course the horrible reliability and durability problems is the main reason why the Wankel engine is obsolete.
Owned an RX7 and an RX8 never had an issue with oil consumption usually top it up once between oil changes plus mineral oil is cheaper then other engine oils so it’s not expensive, mpg is the main issue
@@alexpurssell1349 Reliably has always been the biggest single problem with the Wankel engine... fuel efficiency is also abysmal.
1.3 13b rx7 spirt R-280bhp/231lbs
1.6 toyota GR corolla-300hp/280lbs
@@sandervanderkammen9230 only major thing I had go wrong in over 8 years was the oil pump going on the RX7, part of the problem is they need more looking after than a piston engine, a lot of owners don’t realise or don’t bother then run into problems. Having said that your not going to get as many miles out of one than a piston engine
GT Sport has a very fun GT3 version of the concept Mazda RX Coupe. It sounds a lot like an older Ferrari V10 F1 engine.
GT7 has a road version too. It's more like a V8. I think it's got the quad rotor engine.
When I was kid my favorite uncle drove a new 1988 Rx7 and took me for a drive when he bought it. Every sportscar we stopped beside wanted to race. This was in Chicago suburbs in 1989. RIP uncle.
I’ve had several rx-7’s over the years and I LOVED them! Yep. Keep a few quarts of oil on the trunk all the way in the back to give you better grip😂👍👍👍👍
if someone decide to put a weekly amount of needed oil into trunk of Rx7 the car would barely move ))
1:24 It's weird seeing a REPU without a V8 with jet boat exhausts on top of an Oldsmobile Tornado front axle in the bed.
Yes, it's the Mazdarati from Roadkill
I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned that our friend the Rotary, is more like a two stroke piston engine than four stroke. Not just by design but also by behavior. Hence the high rpm, eating lots of oil, and always dehydrated for fuel. This is a great video about a motor which is deserving of notoriety.
ummm what this has to do with number of strokes?
@@kajwis2675 Literally what dieseljo explained in his comment
Doesn't it have like. 3 strokes? Intake - compression and combustion in 1 pocket - exhaust? But yeah, i think it behaves more like a 2stroke than a 4stroke
Also sounds like an angry 2stroke on steroids
The Wankel engine is a 4-stroke
@@sandervanderkammen9230 what I meant was that it is almost 3 strokes if you count by the pockets/chambers. But I think it technically won't count as 4 stroke because it doesn't "stroke" or move like reciprocating pistons
Y’know, my dad said they were hard to maintain in our country (bangladesh) because of the parts not being very findable, one of my dads friends had a rx8, it broke down, due to a crash, he said that if we bought the old one off him and fixed it, it would be very hard to maintain.
The Wankel was ultimately failure and is obsolete technology today because they are unreliable engines.
same music in donuts xD great video btw
i would love a 6 rotor muscle rotor car like a viper lol
A 6 rotor would have a ton of torque and then if you turbo charge it, then it would just be a beast
Rotary corvette.
It makes sense too if ya know your corvette history too. Lol
@@mikehunt9894 yeah, but would a 6 rotor fit in a vette? Because a 4 rotor would just not have the oomph that a 6 would and a turbo 4 has already been done a ton. I have yet to really see a 6 rotor let alone a turbo 6 rotor.
@@charliemaybe Corvette's dont weight anything.. infact probably just as light as a 90s rx7.. So a yeah a boosted 4 would power it fine.look on youtube, someone has done it already
@@mikehunt9894 I know a vette can be light especially with a turbo 4 rotor in it, but have you ever seen a serious build of a turbo 6 rotor before? I mean imagine rolling into a meet with a viper acr or something and popping the hood and you just have a long line of rotary and it would look so good and have the power and torque to back up the viper badge
YOu guys might want to chekc out Rob Dahm's chanel. he has a rotary-vette and so much more
4:17 ok mixture is kinda relative in this example
ALL OF THE FUEL
Something to be admired from a far for the weak of heart. For those of us willing to put in the time with these engines when they run good its wirth every second you spend on them.
The point is they never ran good, these engines suck.
i love that the auto generated captions translate the 787B's 4 Rotor to *Music*
Proof that computers are tone deaf
They’re so nice to use when they’re working though. The smoothness is unreal.
Most rotaries die. Due to people beating on them and not keeping up with the maintenance. Unlike a piston motor. A rotaries motors maintenance directly correlates to how it's driven. And most people's maintenance habits can't keep up with their driving habits
@@terrellfair9812 I certainly hear what you are saying here, but tbf rotaries actually enjoy a good beating on occasionally lol. I mean that the Mazda techs I've spoken with tell me to redline my Rx8 at least once a week to help blow out any excess carbon deposits. But I absolutely agree that they require meticulous maintenance. But good God it is by far the most enjoyable car to drive that I have ever owned!
You have never driven a V-12 car.
@@terrellfair9812 Then explain why Wankel engines cannot be used in certified passenger aircraft???
@@ambergraves798 Your engine is already damaged if you are having carbon build-up, carbon deposits are a direct indication of low compression.
You must have driven some really garbage cars.
Wew lets go! Long live rotaries
R..I.P. 1964 - 2012
Can confirm. Had an stock RX8 with 20B Rotary Engine. Very slow, drings too much fuel for to less power, and drinks too much oil as well. Sound is incredible if you change catalysator and exhaust, and intake. The inside is quite nice and timeless. But the engingereally kinda sucks.
Most people who own rx7s delete the system that consumes the engines motor oil and move to premixing. Premixing is where you add 2 stroke oil to your gas everytime you fill up. This is done to lubricate the apex seals and depending on what 2 stoke oil you use it can also brake down carbon.
No one does this daily driving
@@Buffalobills-fh2be I just fill it up with 2 stroke oil and let the oil injection do its thing, i incresed the flow rat and just add and go no oil changes required as i make it work more like a 2 stroke.
I love the sound of rotaries (because it’s mandatory) but I think a v8 or i6 beats it in almost every way. Reliability, price, v8 has better sound, both can be much faster, more hp, etc
not in intial d tho
If some car manufacturer were to make a lightweight sportscar with a 700hp rotary engine, and good chassis, it would most likely beat every other car on the nurburgring.
If someone decided to redefine the rotary and make it more reliable but still keep that rotary feel rotary's will make a come back in the car market and racing scene
Wankel engines are inherently unreliable and inferior to reciprocating engines... they will never comeback.
No one is building them because they have inferior emissions, efficiency and durability.
They are reliable
Most apes just dont understand basic matinence
@@anyau exactly
Rotron rotaier and AIE 650 presssure gas cooled rotor SPARCS thingy for cooling, all roller beraing and oil injected like some 2 strokes.
6:30 if a motors crank is between the tires, it's a mid engine, so, I'd just go off the block. Considering it doesn't have a crankshaft 🤣
These engines are just so beautiful and lovely and light. Just that once you get down to the details nearly everything about them sucks compared to a normal piston engine:
- by definition, some significant portion of the power from combustion is pushing it in the wrong direction
- the flame from ignition has to travel along the direction of rotation from the spark plug and this makes combustion inefficient
- the compression ratio is limited by the shape of the Wankel and relatively low compared to a piston engine that is mainly limited by the auto-ignition point of the compressed fuel
- the Dorito shaped piston needs sealing gaskets at 4 sides, making leaks more common
- the ignition and input stroke are on opposite sides of the engine, so it always heats up a lot more on one side, making proper sealing even harder as it doesn't expand uniformly
The vibration thing is a big plus though of this design. Actually I think they mainly make sense for motor cycles, strangely enough they haven't really been used for this.
The Wankel engine was invented by a motorcycle manufacturer... NSU Motorenwerkes GmbH.
Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki, BSA, Norton, MZ, Van Veen all
developed or manufactured Wankel engine bikes.
The Wankel engine has no actual weight or power advantages in motorcycle applications and is more expensive than reciprocating engines.
The Wankel engine's poor torque characteristics and lack of engine braking effect made them very unpopular with motorcycle enthusiasts.
Those early rotary engines referenced with pistons aren't rotary engines at all. Theyre called Radial engines. Completely different thing.
Early aircraft engines referred to as "rotary" had a stationary crankshaft the engine rotated around. Radial engines look similar, but the crankshaft rotates while the block and crankcase are stationary.
You sir need to learn the difference between a Rotary and Radial engine because you look like a fool right now.
I love its Uniqueness.. 🔥
I’ve never had one but I still like them and love the sound/performance they can offer, if ever I get my hands on a series 4 I’d add it to my garage :)
We are talking about real cars, not video games.
@@sandervanderkammen9230 what colour is your bugatti
What would the benefit be as a range extender? The priority for a range extender would be fuel economy while maintaining the low battery level at a steady/ low RPM. So not really a rotary's thing.
Lots of power for the space and weight. EV's use all the space and weight allowance for batteries.
NOTHING, while some manufacturers looked at range extenders as a way to compensate for poor battery performance decades ago the automobile industry has completely abandoned range extenders.
The Wankel engine is the absolute antithesis of the Efficient "Green" Energy concept.
The Wankel is noisy, dirty, inefficient and unreliable... the exact opposite of what attracts anyone who is interested in buying electric cars.
If Liquid Piston rotary were implemented to production for next Mazda RX it could theoretically speaking every previous problen commonly found on rotary is gone
clarify liquid piston u mean?
LiquidPiston is a fraudulent vaporware investment scam
Those still have rotor seals so they need oil
@@mflbikes1870
The seals are more on the housing, so it might be able to reduce the amount of oil getting burnt.
@@Appletank8 its still in the combustion chamber and they still move so it requires lubrication
They are not 650cc. It's more like 1300 or 1750cc. Cc is calculated when all cylinders have fired. So 650 being one dorito side the full number should be 1750cc. It's very small for it's size and very light. But this way of calculating it's cc makes sense for alternating piston comparisons and explains why it was so damn thirsty. 2x650 it's like a 6 cylinders 2.6 of the same era.
He was taking about the displacement for each rotor (1308cc= 654cc x 2 )
@@Aditya-sc6wu each rotor has 3 sides that is 654cc each. An engine displacement is calculated when all pistons have fired once. This means that the number should be tripled. But usually 4 stroke engines do that every 2 crankshaft rotations. The Wankel fires one side each crankshaft rotation so the displacement should be at least doubled if we have to compare to alternate piston engines.
@@Aditya-sc6wu Each rotor has 3 displacement volumes.
It's in the name 13b 1.3, 20b 2.0, 26b 2.6 they could not have made it any easier
@@davidpriestley7585 You need to learn about how swept volume displacement is calculated correctly.
"Tax Displacement" is a concocted marketing gimmick.
My 1982 rx7 still going with 180k km. You must take care of the engine and it will work well. This 12a engine gives me lots of fun
I have a 2006 RX-8 that I purchased as a weekend sports car, and I absolutely love it. It is, and will always remain, a cult classic. It always starts, never floods, will rev to almost 10,000, and looks and sounds amazing the whole time..
You're not a very good liar kid.
@@sandervanderkammen9230 Alright........
@@nerdly44 The RX8 was the worst sedan Mazda ever made... 3 billion dollars failure that bankrupted Mazda and killed off the entire RX brand for good.
You don't seem to know anything about cars or the RX8... doubtful that you are even old enough to drive a car kid.
@@sandervanderkammen9230 Geez dude, I just like my RX-8. You sure are an angry guy. Maybe get off the internet for a little while and read a book.
@@nerdly44 Ignore him, hes baiting under every comment that praises rotaries or cars with rotaries.
I'm actually planning on getting a Rx8 as a toy car soon just cause I feel like it plus it will help me learn how to drive manual/stick
Very bad idea... the RX8 is the worst car ever made.
@@sandervanderkammen9230 okay, now your just being obtuse. Worst car ever made? My guy.... This man prolly says this while driving a honda civic or wrx. Your just wrong in so many facets lmao.
@@tylerbradley6940 It is the worst car Mazda ever made.
A $3 billion dollar failure that was so horribly bad it killed off the entire RX brand for good..
You don't seem to know very much about the RX8 do you?
@@sandervanderkammen9230 not even close to the truth. It definitely did not have the most reliable engine but it makes for a fun car to beat up and work on. There’s no reason to hate on a car just because of its bad reputation.
@@krixpy0 Its absolutely true... the RX8 is a cheap Mazda sedan pretending to be a sports car... very badly.
Not to mention it's as fugly as cheap plastic garden shed.
But what if we made the Dorito and the Apex Seals one piece?
That would mean you get little to No compression. Since the Apex seals are spring loaded to Push against the Rotorhousings to create compression and allow for it to move and Not instantly Ruin the Rotorhousings surface.
Yeeeaaaah... I love the enthusiasm, but that's probably not gonna work out well. 😅
*ROTARY ENGINES* are a consumable part - you replace them every 40k miles...
BUT its an amazingly fun 40k miles.
Its not fun if you are still making payments... which is why people stopped buying cars with Wankel engines.
The RX8 was a nightmare constantly needed to be babied.
Rx8, the joke of Mazda, held its value like a child holding a red hot coal. Pick 1 up for a grand and that’s pricey. That’s why a lot ended up with kids modifying them to make them even worse. 🤣
rx8 had better lap times than supras and gtrs while relased. Up to today many rx8 hold the top lap times on race tracks, losing mostly to awd cars. There are mostly rx8 on time attacks in my country. The car is funny cheap and its a great weekend car. Value goes down, but its good for us. And LHD r3 2009+ lift mazdas rx8 are very rare and nowhere to be cheap. Engine problems were caused by people using mazda oil which was designed to fail, now people tune oil injectors better and use good oil. 350z v6 did die all around the world too, because people used cheap oil on them.
@@szaka9395 😂 I accept they have a following within the younger guys but believe me a lot of people lost a lot of money within 2yrs on these heaps of shite. My cousin use to be a Mazda mechanic and even he said it was a waste of time developing this hence why they ditched it but just not quick enough.
The other reason why the Wankel-engine might make a comback as a range extender (besides its small size/weight) is because while it was very inefficient as a main engine with constantly changing rpm and torque demand, it can run much more efficient when designed for and kept at a specific and constant rpm and torque -> which it could as a generator/range extender.
That's completely false.
Wankel engines have repeatedly proven to be completely unsuitable for use in generator/APU applications.
Wankel engines are extremely noisy, dirty, have horrible fuel efficiency, produce more carbon emissions and are completely incompatible with the entire "Green Energy" concept of EVs.
The Concept of Range Extenders was a topic of interest among several automobile manufacturers a decade ago but has been completely abandoned.
Not a single manufacturer has ever offered a vehicle with a range extender as standard equipment and only one, (BMW i3) was offered as an option but was discontinued.
Mazda completely abandoned development of production Wankel engines in May 2009, no new prototypes have been made since the 16X program in 2007 and was cancelled on May 15th 2009.
The Mazda MX30 has been available in selected markets since the 2021 model year and will only be available in a 100% plug-in battery EV or a mild series hybrid powered by 2.0 liter 4-Cylinder Skyactiv G engine.
Any questions?
@@sandervanderkammen9230 Mercedes is releasing the new unimog with a range extender.
@@tun0fun Thats carzy! Who would be stupid enough to buy one?
@@sandervanderkammen9230 It's actually brilliant for the same reason that diesel-electric trains are.
@@sandervanderkammen9230 It's actually brilliant for the same reason that diesel-electric trains are.
@3:55 Why is it only combustion at 1 single section of the rotor? What if it could combust @2 or 3 different sections, if that was possible I wonder how much the output in HP would increase 🤔
Years ago I was riding my dad’s 78 vespa apparently had it’s teeth worm and torn so I was baffled hearing smooth engine and no problem gearing but it won’t move lol
I have often wondered what might have happened if the Sarich Orbital Engine had gotten the investment to be put into production cars. Both the rotary and the orbital concepts had many advantages but ultimately bean counters decided to play it safe and put investment money into conventional engines rather than more risky designs.
While both engines are fascinating... neither design has any real practical advantages and many serious disadvantages.
I'm surprised nobody ever mentions that the rotor spins at 1/3 of the crankshaft speed three revs of the crankshaft for one of the rotor
Basically a car engine that sounds like a motorcycle
I had my rotary pick up truck for 10yrs now and I still love it ❤❤.
I had the visible rotory engine model back as a kid. The thing I remember about the wankel was they leaked. The temperature differental between the parts wouldn't let it seal properly.
The primary failure mode of all Wankel engines is seal damage caused by poor combustion characteristics... apex seals are also inherently fragile and weak, leakage causes heat damage to the surface of the seals.
I still love my RX-8 daily driver. That's all I have to say... ;-)
Me too Bebe!
Worst RX ever made
@@sandervanderkammen9230 Je moeder!
@@BebeMischa So bad, it killed off the entire RX brand...
@@sandervanderkammen9230 Do you own one? I do. It's a fabulous car. It killed nothing. The users, who did not understand the car, killed it.
As someone that owns one. Most of the problems with rotaries are caused by peoples piss poor maintenance/driving habits
True, anyone stupid enough to buy one of these unreliable engines is too incompetent to maintain an engine properly and should buy a bicycle.
@@sandervanderkammen9230 I think you types your reply wrong but incase you didnt. I don't think buying a rotary makes you stupid. mine is more reliable then most people newish BMWs. And I'm telling you as a owner as Long as you do your due diligence according to your driving style. It's not as bad as people make it out to be.
@@terrellfair9812 Thanks for proving my point.... you don't know anything about automobiles or engines do you?
@@sandervanderkammen9230 I don't know what point your trying to make honestly I'm just going to assume your trolling. All I'm saying it rotaries arnt as terrible as people make them out to be speaking from my own experience. And I have an fd and an rx8. But then again I'm probably talking to someone who probably doesn't even own a car.
@@terrellfair9812 You obviously know nothing about Wankel engines.
Wankel engines are inherently unreliable and inferior to reciprocating engines... this is an irrefutable fact.
The only thing prone to fail in a Roary engine are the apex seals. Change the factory ones for after-market ceramic ones, and you have the most reliable and long-lasting engine ever made! I used to manufacture rotary engine and, after a few years of experience, we only used ceramic seals, and NEVER had an engine failure due to seals. With those, you can also save on oil consumption, by reducing the amount of oil being metered onto the stator's inside walls.
You're not a very good liar kid... Wankel engines are inherently unreliable and less durable than reciprocating engines.
Apex seals are extremely fragile and damaged very easily...
there is no cure.
There are no longer any legitimate engineers or manufacturers working on the Wankel engine... it is the sole domain of crackpots and con men.
Is that the silicon nitride apex seal thingy?
@@jlo13800 Ianetti ceramic seals. They are available from several vendors. Bloody expensive, though.
@@jlo13800 Doesn't solve the Wankels reliability problems...
@@st-ex8506 big waste of money..
Doesn't solve anything
I was completely unaware the Repu stood for the Rotary Engine Pick Up🤯
Even though rotaries are connected to Mazda, it's still a german invention... by Felix Heinrich Wankel (which is why it's called the Wankel Motor).
Funniest thing about the "Wankel Motor" is I think, that "Wankel" in german means "to tumble" - so the inventor's name was basically perfectly describing the movement of the piston I guess :-)
787B has still the most magnificent sound of any rotary i know though
Felix Wankel hated this horrible engine... the KKM57 was created by Hanns Paschke and Walter Freode, engineers at NSU Motorenwerkes GmbH.
Rotary is way too much fun !!!
Bought my 88 rx7 in 2016 when i was in high school. Its still running the original build from factory with around 85k miles on it. Im torn between doing a preventative rebuild or driving it until it dies then doing a funky motorcycle engine swap
just drive it until it dies and then shoot it with some large caliber rifle , that's it
Captions called the exhaust note music, nice
Proof that computers are tone deaf
My favourite type of engine.
They could put it in a sports car as a range extender. Single rotor may save weight over a larger battery.
on top of that, mazda had a hydrogen powered (as in, hydrogen combustion instead of gasoline) RX8 variant (JDM only). it was not as powerful as the gasoline variant, but it only produced NOx emissions, and basically no CO/CO2. I think there might be some ways to tweak the design to burn less oil, and then add a cat that specifically filters NOx, and you'd have a "clean" combustion engine. if it's just meant to power some electric motors and recharge batteries, even better as you don't feel the lack of torque and horsepower, or whatever (and it's not gonna guzzle fuel any more).
Except for the fact that they're even worse for effeciency
@@vukpsodorov5446 The Mazda RX8 Hydrogen RE was a complete failure..
@@sandervanderkammen9230 yes, but that was just a 13B running on hydrogen and directly powering the rear wheels (through a gearbox). also hydrogen refill stations were basically non-existent as well. things can/have changed a lot since then.
also some of it's shortcomings are less significant when it's just charging a battery.
@@vukpsodorov5446 What about the HyNor program?
Keep on bashing on the rotary! Will make my stuff more worth! Thank you!!!
Some new rotary engine currently being developed: the Omega 1. Still well long before it gets put in a car, and with how the industry is going maybe never.
Well it’s supposed to be run on hydrogen, so it’s more likely to become popular than you might think
I'm surprised that you didn't mention the various attempts to get this engine into motorcycles. Another situation where small size is very helpful. From the looks of it, Crighton in just 2021 was still working with the technology in, admittedly extremely expensive, motorcycles.
NSU Motorenwerkes and Felix Wankel specifically developed the concept for motorcycles but it proved to be completely unsuitable for bikes.
The Creighton CR700 is nothing more than rehashed 1990s vintage Norton F1 built form old spares with new fenders and fairings...
Brian Creighton is sadly just an old crackpot stuck in the dreams of Norton's past.
@@sandervanderkammen9230 This video just lives in your head rent free, eh? Replying to damn near every comment to give wisdom and 2 cents nobody asked for going on over a year now.
Every engine sucks.... AIR 😉
*Rob Dahm has left the chat*
Rob left to get high...
Had a gen3 type r. Beautiful car and quick, but thirsty and the engine felt like a time bomb.. sold it for £4k in 2005 :-(
Growing up, I was in love with the RX-7. My heart literally skipped a beat the first time I saw an FD, and I eventually bought a 91 GXL FC. It was a great car, but yeah the rotary engine (as cool as it is) does actually kinda suck. Wankel's engine concept is unique and MaZDa's execution is also very well thought out. Its just that the rotary engine's pros dont outweigh a traditional piston engine.
One of the big issues now in days is the grade of oil out these days so good for piston motor i admit when you can run oil for 10 grand miles but all the aditives in them cause major build up on rotorys which inject oil in the combustion chamber and that's catastrophic for apex seals and carbon build up in a rotory after the oil and gas burn the zinc and phosphates and other additives stay behind just add 2 stoke oil in gas tank every other fill up and your save a lot of time and money on repairs
You have to be monumentally stupid to pour the wrong oil down the wrong filler hole... premixing a 4-stroke internal combustion engine that is rated for 4-stroke oil is just dumb.
@@sandervanderkammen9230 your response to me shows you no nothing about rotorys and if you say tube and google taught you what you do know i smile im a owner of a fc and fd but whatever buddy be hwo you want on the big interweb 🤔😂😂🤘😜
@@kingmaybus8409 Because I can read an owners manual and the label on a bottle of motor oil... something that you haven't learned to do yet.
@@sandervanderkammen9230 i premix and have done internal oil block off im not going to argue live your best life look some things up
From my rx8 ownership, almost everyone recommended non synthetic oils
When driven the same, rotaries last just as long as a Smart ForTwo 3cyl engine before needing a rebuild but no one complains about reliability issue of the latter.
Mazda was smoking some fine stuff when they still opted for cast-iron in an engine with wild temperature extremes.
How to permanently fix a rotary:
1. Billet pro it
2. Thicker & stronger tension bolts + dowels
Wish I knew all of this when I had my RX8
Thats not true, Wankel engines are horribly unreliable compared to reciprocating engines... that why they are obsolete technology.
If you knew anything about cars you would have never bought a RX8...
@@sandervanderkammen9230 I am speaking from experience. Granted, I didn't know a thing about cars when I got the RX8 but I learned.
Still, my example stands.
@@UzY3L Thank you for proving my point.
if you think Wankel engines can be as reliable as a reciprocating engines?
You are still an amateur and have alot to learn yet.
@@UzY3L If you think you learned anything from Rob Dahm? You just got dumber, not smarter.
My RX8 is still purring @105k running marine synthetic premix through a Sohn adapter, It’s my daily, but I’m a mechanic by trade. I take the problems with the advantages that come with it, I’ve never had more fun daily driving a car than the RX8, even far more powerful ones.
You have to be very gullible to buy an RX8... and monumentally stupid to put the wrong oil in your engine.
@@sandervanderkammen9230 the fact that you'd assume that means you likely don't know what a sohn adapter is, have never owned an rx8, and aren't entitled to speak on it.
The first rx7 came in the late 70s, and my favorite version, especially in racing and rally trim.
And also the rx500 has almost 250 bhp in less than a litre.
The Mazda RX-500 Was powered by as highly tuned racing type engine but only produced 83 horsepower per liter.
A stock production 10A only produced around 34 horsepower per liter.
Using the 2x conversion formula is still only around 50 horsepower per liter.
Not impressive at all which is why Wankel engines were never successful in motorsports unless they had an unfair advantage in engine displacement rules.
Dude what an original concept for an automotive CZcams video. I literally have not seen this opinion anywhere else. Rotary engine bad? Burns oil? Apex seals breaking? Cooling issues? I had no idea. Man if only every other car channel had made this video I would have known sooner.
There is not alot of good material on the obsolete Wankel engine on the internet... but this was better than most.
@@sandervanderkammen9230 my guy most of the internet shits on rotaries. Like they're in more than just a few Mazdas or something if you don't like the rotary engine don't buy an RX simple as.
@@SomberFireBall Everyone knows Wankel engines are garbage... even Mazda stopped making them a decade ago.
@@sandervanderkammen9230 even I am aware of Mazda stopping production of rotary engines but I still like them. Do i think that they should come back into production not necessarily but I do think that they're an interesting engine and the cars that use said engine are fun to drive, yes. You just don't like them because the internet has told you not to like them. If not for the internet telling you they were bad you would probably not care about the rotary engine and focus on whatever car you actually like but because it's profitable to make a CZcams video that says "why X sucks" you gobble it up anyway. I came here to see if he had anything new to bring to the table about rotary engine discussion and was not surprised when it didn't thus i posted my comment.
@@SomberFireBall Wankel engine... _'Mazda Rotary'_ is a defunct brand name now.
Everyone knows these horrible, unreliable Wankel engines suck. Even Mazda now admits this, why are you still in denial?
I’d love a FD RX7. With a LS swap
Run 50:1 amsoil 2 stroke fuel mix. Block off the oil passage in each housing. Upgrade the coolant gasket to the famous orange multi use, and expect to replace apex seals every 100k miles.
If this is done they will last 300k, have poor mpg, but power to weight is excellent and worth the money.
Please stop spreading lies and false information about Wankel engine.
Always use the factory recommended lubricants.
You have to be monumentally stupid to pour the wrong oil down the wrong filler hole.
If you cannot read and understand your owners manual or the label on a bottle of motor oil? You have no business under the hood or giving advice.
Wankel engines are inherently unreliable and less durable than reciprocating engines, this is an irrefutable fact that cannot be disputed.
Nothing the owner can do but follow the proper service procedures or buy a better car with a reciprocating engine.
I agree with many of your points but as rx8 owner i have to add something, the refilling of oil strongly depends on how you drive, if u have the possibility to drive it the way it is fun, you will definitely have to refill often, every 2 or 3 times is still a bit to much in my experience (tho it also seems to be different for the newer and older models). If you drive it more cruising wise bc you use it for daily stuff as well the oil can last much longer. Tho i have to admit, like many i do premix so you will use a lot of oil one way or the other!
And about the rx8 revs, since there are 2 version the 4 port 142kw and the 6port with 170kw the max rev differentiates, i don't know the maximum revs of the 4port so you probably got your 9k from there, the 6port revs up to 9500revs without any modification tho.
My condolences, the Mazda RX8 is the worst Mazda ever made...
@@sandervanderkammen9230 ....i feel like i remember your name, arent you the troll searching for rotary comments and deliberately trying to argue with the people? You can do that somewhere else bc i wont take part in it.
This is my first and only response to you
@@naverthis7552 Do you know what the worst part about owning an RX8 is???
Telling your parents there won't be any grandchildren!