538 Debate Club: Should TikTok be banned? | FiveThirtyEight Politics Podcast
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- čas přidán 20. 03. 2024
- Last week, the House of Representatives passed a bipartisan bill that would ban TikTok unless its owner, the Chinese company ByteDance, sells its stake in the app. This decision has ignited a national debate about TikTok and the effects of social media. So, in true 538 fashion, we’re reintroducing a segment we like to call ‘Debate Club’ to discuss the issue. In this installment of the 538 Politics podcast, Senior Elections Analyst Geoffrey Skelley, Podcast Intern Jala Everett, and Senior Editor and Senior Elections Analyst Nathaniel Rakich engage in a spirited debate. They'll defend their arguments on whether to ban TikTok, maintain the status quo or even consider banning social media altogether.
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Nathaniel‘s character is absolutely flawless 🤣💀
"US based oligarchs" sure is a strong line!
Nathanielstan!
Pros of using tik tok: i feel less old and more cool
Cons: like everything else
Cons: free speech
@@cosmopolitanclerk1246in which sense?
I really want to hear what was discussed in that meeting
This is one of my favorite episodes yet. Glad this format is back. Also, jala is a great addition to the crew 🎉
7:30 I think the graphics are missing
Small request for audio evening between mic setups. I know there was a lot of dynamic speech in this one especially, but I had to keep changing the volume at the beginning of the episodes.
Great discussion! I liked the format; everyone really went all-in, bringing very valid points to the table. Lots to consider. And Jayla definitely held her own! I look forward to this group covering the election.
Listening to these arguments makes me feel good about banning tiktok. I feel like Jayla's argument was "our economy is already established on tiktok". Imo, economic dependence on timtok enhances Jefferey's argument.
I will be surprised if that fact that China requires companies operating in China to partner with Chinese companies doesn't come up in this debate.
This was an immensely fun and moderately informative episode. Easier to share than some of denser material; lovely.
The Ke$ha reference was really cute 😌
Yay it's a Nathaniel episode.
I enjoyed this episode.
I think if Congress is serious about banning TikTok's parent company, they need to present the evidence to the populace. They need to do it honestly unlike Colin Powell's presentation to the UN during the runup to the invasion of Iraq.
I've been saying it forever and this proves that we are not a democracy and were never intended to be one. In a Constitutional Republic congress themselves can make these kind of decisions for the entire population without putting it to a referendum. Democracy isn't always good because people will vote with their feelings and not logic. Honestly, not all people are smart enough to be voting and many of them own no property and have no skin in the game. Some of them probably aren't even US citizens.
Very entertaining episode. Would love more of this segment
I liked Jayla's closing statement
We can't regulate algorithms. One, how? Two, they are at this point proprietary.
Wonderful! Gloves off and good data! Thank you
Jala's intro speech is not shown on camera??
just one chance to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our TikTok and X, but they'll never take our freedom!!!
No worries about our nation, our allies or the Unseen Hand of the Market messing with our information feed.
Loved this format! Please do it more, I shared it 12 times!
46:44 Ted Kennedy
Geoffrey even looks good while he’s defending a crummy bill.
Did any of the pod casters read the bill in full? What side effects does this have? What else is put at risk by this? What protections are there against abuse of the legislation? Focusing on China and TikTok is a overly narrow viewing of this.
Jala sits there quietly watching everyone destroy each other 😂
nicotine put my IBD in remission for about a year
For the economy point tik tok contributing $24 billion a year in 2023 to the economy is almost nothing for how much users and negative impact it has. $24 billion is about $6 a person a month, which is very small from an economic per for the numerous harms covered.
Won’t there just be a new American app that replaces TikTok like how it replaced Vine?
Yes. Yes there would be. People would be mad for like 3 weeks then they'd get over it as everyone migrated to the new site.
Even if we do nothing more than clear out the latest attention-destroying apps from time to time, it would still be a net benefit.
I have enjoyed “who the f did I marry”? So much. I don’t care what happens to TimToc. It’s the creators I care about.
is byetdance Chinese? I recall someone saying they weren't
Yes. They are based in china.
"Should we build a moat around our southern border?" is on the same wavelength as this ban.
It does not address the "mental health" concerns about tiktok. CZcams has youtube shorts which are just tiktok, too.
It does not address the abuse of foreign money in our political system.
It does not really address anything at all, actually.
It's just xenophobia.
It's nothing remotely close. A moat would be fiscally disastrous as well as ineffective. Banning TikTok would be fiscally negligible and would raise our nation's collective IQ by at least 2 points. CZcams shorts only exists to compete with TikTok, and it functions as a companion piece to longer videos - I'm fine banning that too.
(If you can't tell by my username, I'm ethnically Chinese. It's not xenophobic.)
But do you honestly think this government would/can do any of that? This is a quick short term solution for the biggest offender. I don't see the issue.
@@CZPCThe issue is that this a violation of our freedoms. And we as citizens accept limitations if the danger is too large. Drunk driving opposed to the legality of alcohol. Has tiktok breached that threshold comparatively to Reels or Shorts? If not, then the ban is an unacceptable limitation of many Americans.
I think Jeff was most persuasive in terms of his argument.
Tbh the arguments against TikTok was horribly represented. Atleast get someone who vaguely gives a shit about the talkiing points themselves instead of playing a character poorly. Sounds like both right side people barley held a laugh everytime they stated their "position" Saying this as a massive 538 fan. Also "Doomscrolling"s definition is not nearly as broad as you think it is. Using the app for long peroids is not doomscrolling. Looking at and obsessing over climate Change threads for instance is. That or going to "circklejerk" communities inforcing bad and depressing world views ala r/collapse. Also people dont eat doritos for 8 hours a day. Ignoring the severity itself is frankly childlish. Also i dont recall anybody bringing up the fact that US social media is basically non-existent in China. Theres a reason for that. 38:20
"like Tiktok". Sums up the entire video for me. You comapring it to smoking literally enforces the idea it should be banned for Minors which I dont even agree with. Whats wrong with banning a foreign adversary controlled app manipulating our children on mass? Also phones are banned in a vast majority of schools. Its just not enforced due to the lack of enforcement measures themselves besides going person to person and checking.
Edit: Bottom left changing her mind somewhat is honestly awesome to hear. Just hearing someone changing their mind is refreshing in of itself
Agreed.
This is actually a huge fucking issue.
They can choose not to care about it or be interested in it but as journalists they should engage with it seriously.
Really disappointed.
Also, it's impossible to make the argument either way without being privy to the information that the DOJ gave to Congress. What Congress was told was obviously quite bad if it broke across partisan barriers. Maybe we need to simplify the argument by saying that Americans should own American companies and the Chinese should own companies in China. Taking an isolationist stance will bring many manufacturing jobs BACK to America AND it will cripple the Chinese economy if they lose us as a customer. Just start making goods here in America. It's not that hard.
Are we really, as Americans, going to let the government tell us what media to consume? I mean, for god's sake, the daily stormer isn't banned but tiktok is?
Christian Nationalism is sweeping the country- daily stormer is a reflection of the bloodstained roots of America.
Like a diving board off of the balcony of a penthouse, think of Tik-Tok as evolution in action.
All of social media should be banned, this podcast would be a good place to start, but no need to panick ...the internet is committing suicide as we speak, just wait a bit.....
Nicotine boosts mental alertness.
Shrinks your 'nads though.
Yes. It is a s*** app.
YES Tik Tok should be sold
boring, pls stick to actual reporting and skip these debate club skits
Couldn't you tell from the title? You have a choice.